Sailing Dyneema Rigging (1 of 2)

Old school rigging techniques using modern materials.
Followup video at • Sailing Dyneema Riggin...
Stories at sailing.fgood.org

[@SecretSquirrel809]

I’ve watched a fare few videos about Dyneema rigging and honestly, this is the most concise and easy to follow video I’ve seen, no frill just information delivered simply…well done sir

[@paulmackilligin1754]

I'm no expert, but from everything I've read, virtually all knots slip in Dyneema, Spectra, etc. I'm concerned about those stopper knots in the hull. A simple overhand stopper knot like that will surely slip under load. When knots fail in Dyneema, they often fail very suddenly and completely. (Nothing, nothing, nothing, and then BANG.) Much testing has been done in this area. There are ways of doing what you are doing there which will work reliably and safely, but I don't think that overhand stopper knot is one of them. If it were me, I'd splice that bottom line around the thimble you are using for your lower 'deadeye', then have the line separate again into the two lines and tie a diamond knot (AKA knife lanyard knot?) as a stopper knot - the same kind of knot you would use in a soft shackle. That knot won't slip. The other thing is that the 'bury' on that lowest line does not look long enough to hold reliably. (Needs to be a minimum of 50x line diameter, some say 72x.) Again, if you use a diamond knot you are not relying on the length of the splice to hold it, as both ends of the line are held securely by the diamond knot. In fact if you use a diamond knot as a stopper then the only reason you need a splice at all is to create a closed loop to hold the thimble securely. Great video though. PS, you could make a spliced eye without a brummel lock (It's locked by the diamond knot anyway so it needs no other locking) and then you could feed the loop through the hull, open up the eye for the thimble and it will close again naturally under load. (In effect, make a standard soft shackle with a diamond knot, but make the openable eye larger, to fit the thimble rather than to fit the line diameter as in a soft shackle, and then use it in just the way you have been, with the stopper knot in the hull and the eye around the thimble..)

[@SAILINGintoFREEDOM]

Good on you. I am doing it. I have no faith in stainless steel. Hopefully will meet up with you sailing around

[@jmac2543]

Great video. Traveller design is very clever. Thanks.

[@rb2whrider9836]

Might I recommend searching RIGGING DOCTOR on KZbin? He has rigged all the lines using the same material. Enjoyed watching your rigging video using simple inexpensive proven technics.

[@rodshehan3886]

Thanks for the video mate. Love your use of the prussik on the traveller, simple and effective. I have all dynice dux rigging on my 50ft ketch, spliced myself. Brilliant stuff - easy to use and saved about 45kg / 100lb of rig weight.

[@colinmiddleton2941]

How tight do you make them? How do you keep the mast perfectly upright ? How do you ‘tune’ the mast?

[@johnokeefe1739]

No mention of center of gravity when discussing keels jok

[@USA4thewin]

so wait ,, I need to understand ,, does dyneema stretch I want to make all standing rigging from dyneema

[@the-selfish-meme7585]

Sticks, string, bronze, and leather - when people used to sail for a living - in all weathers - for hundreds of years. I'm with those guys. That's the way to do it.

[@antirussia_org]

"The knowledge that we lost" If only we had a way to keep the knowledge even after people are dead... like, writing?

[@pironiero]

your face is strangely familiar, are you an actor or something?

[@markhusbands2037]

When he said "this creep" it kind of hurt my feelings.

[@SailingBarefootChildren]

Good video Ken hope your doing good man! -Clayton

[@markthomasson5077]

Can you advise on the cost difference?

[@bendoring2274]

Thank you Ken, for this very informative video! I think you have done a good job to your boat. I will replace stainless steel with dyneema on mine, too.

[@johnokeefe1739]

I assume spectrum is the brand name jok

[@fissh29]

Just sub'd...great video, well done...I am going with Dyneema and this is a very helpful video for those of us that want to do it ourselves..I have a long way to go in my refit before I do any rigging Cheers!

[@pironiero]

also which rope did you use?

[@Dan_C604]

Hey, amazing episode and I love your work. I know this episode is older but I’m really intrigued since I always have had steel standing rigging. I’ll watch part 2

[@advancednutritioninc908]

Great Video!! thanks for your explanation and detail. I think you have a winning solution there! I am sure you will continue to tweak it to make it both easier for you to adjust and maintain. I like your ideas of getting rid of most of the hardware, which is both expensive and can be a failure point. And that you can carry a few spools of dyneema on the boat and fix pretty much any problem that happens with your rigging. :)

[@williamsteinbruegge7579]

where did you get those cast aluminum blocks you show at 2:20? Who makes them?

[@witchSailor]

Got that at defender.com. They are way cool simple little blocks for many applications. Best of luck.

[@RiggingDoctor]

Nice looking splices!

[@SOLDOZER]

Audio recorded with a carrot.

[@philipfreeman72]

Thanks !!!

[@piespies7704]

Recognized NZ bush within 5 seconds of your intro. Beautiful!. I am currently learning to sail our first family trailer sailer in Queen Charlotte sound, launching from Waikawa Bay. Great video. Thinking of changing my stainless stays to dyneema to make them easier to stow when trailering. Kia ora!

[@Dreancaidi]

I just landed on your channel by accident. I must say I'm enjoying what I'm seeing immensely. Keep making videos.

[@gerdfehlbaum7059]

Very informative, THANKS! Exactly what I needed to know. I might do same on my boat.

[@oldmadandkiwi]

Great vid in perfect Vista. I spent 2021 new year next bay around .making me home sick

[@hendrixx2718]

You can get a lot of the creep your experiencing out by making sacrificial Brummel splices in each end then using a come-along, winch, compound purchase system, and solid anchor points.Apply the tuning load it would experience when installed. Mark then line near the Brummel splice in the undisturbed portion of the line in order of tail, Brummel. upper thimble circumference, length of the centerline of the clevis pin to the clevis and add 5' then Brummel splice a thimble this time your taper and burying the tail finally stretching it to the post stretch numbers at colligo marine. then splice in the lower thimble and give it one more post stretch pull and measure to see if you got your finished length.

[@TonyAnschutz]

Excellent. THank you for posting this. My new boat is having dyneema standing rigging so this info is really helpful. Your system for whipping and locking with half hitches is much simpler than the ones I have seen. Have you found them to slip at all? Have you used a winch to tighten your stays?

[@witchSailor]

My method for knotting has not slipped; however, line still stretching so need to re tighten periodically. I have used winch to get line tighter but it still stretches over time. For this reason, I stick with simple method in video because it is easy to take apart and re tighten. The easier it is to do, the more often it gets done. :) Hope this helps and good luck.

[@TonyAnschutz]

excellent. Thank you very much. I like your method a lot.

[@tonysmario817]

good stuff amigo! always nice to get the word from a real sailor...thanks.

[@robertling9872]

Thank you for sharing your experience. Informative and beautifully explained. Wish you beautiful sailing trips.

[@mynextketchfrontier6351]

Love your clip brother love the information but dyneema stretches so when first installed them understanding thanks to zingaro is that after so many hundreds of miles 1 * install you go ahead and readjust them and retighten them and then your good cuz they will stretch when you first install them but they work fabulous on both cases no cable needed that's what I've learned just on Theory LOL

[@markthomasson5077]

Good info. I would have used stainless eyes, but your simple method seems to work. I used dyneema on a telemark binding, noticed how much it stretched when wet. So try soaking your stays before tightening.

[@georgeiredale9397]

excellent, many thanks for this video , very informative.

[@JeffreyHarthSailing]

Excellent explanation! Subscribed!

[@chrisbretter1004]

Thanks Ken a great video, I am preparing to rig my Wharram Tiki 38 the same way.

[@norineism]

Ken, thanks for sharing your experiences with Dyneema. I recently relaunched a classic plastic '69 Alberg and am replacing all the standing rigging with Dyneema. I used sail makers thimble on the advice of the folks from Colligio Marine who sell some very nice but pricey hardware components for HPPE. I love this stuff, light easy to work with and incredibly strong. I don't see any downside except for the chaffing but that is easily remedied. Your video has given me the confidence to ditch the turnbuckles and go with the thimble dead eyes which makes for easy adjustment and no sail chafe. Cheers! Scooter

[@dwightqi]

Thank you for your video. I am in the midst of re-rigging with Colligo on my Nor'sea 27. I really like the simplicity and ease of synthetic diy rig.

[@csapoamedia3055]

I would love to have a dyneema rigging, but I'm not experienced in rigging unfortunately. Do you know anybody, who can do it in the south of France or Spain? My Boat is 15mx4.75m and has a furling mast.

[@andrewbrown2063]

Just try it and learn by doing following info on You Tube. It’s not difficult.

[@SailingInfidels]

Hey thanks for the run down on the dyneema rigging. Did you use Colligo Dux Dyneema?

[@JD-hs7ib]

Professional tournament fishermen that earn millions of dollars a year have been using dyneema catching winning fish for ??? 20+ years; Mountaineers have been using dyneema to climb Denali K2 & Everest. Freight companies, trucking etc. etc, for many years. The rigging doctor has a video on a dynemma turn buckle replacement that might slip less than the half hitches i think a search would find the video.

[@andrewbrown2063]

It’s not the half hitches slipping, it’s the rope stretching.

[@youngypaul]

Great video and content. Subscribed.

[@christopherlynch4347]

Good one with the heat shrink for chafing👍

[@MarinosMichaelides]

Thnx for this. Gold!

[@allspiceyachting]

Excellent video! Thank you very much. What did you do with your forestay? I don't know if you mentioned this and I missed it. Do you still run stainless within your roller furling or do you find that the dyneema does not chafe as bad within the forestay?

[@witchSailor]

I've left stainless wire forestay inside roller. Would only consider synthetic forestay with hank on sail with soft hanks. Chafe and sailing are synonymous and metal cuts dyneema. Hope this helps and good luck.

[@sebasvertical]

Really nice! Lobo de mar! do you have insurance? keep uploading good videos

[@peaceoutplace9760]

Thanks. I remember looking into boat insurance that spanned international waters many years ago to find it too expensive to go sailing. So, instead I bought an oversized Rocna anchor attached to 75 meters of chain trailing another 75 meters of nylon rode. I think of this ground tackle and common sence as better insurance. Got a couple ideas on maybe helpful videos I'll share later. Until then, keep having fun.

[@thewanderingbox8253]

i watched a channel ...sailing the oceans...where he changed from steel to dax dyneema for his running back stays. i have done the same...it's stronger and will not chaff the sail surface as much...win win...also biggest plus is you can fix or replace anywhere 🎉🏴‍☠️🦜⛵

[@wisenber]

The material is great for rigging. Just be aware that those lark's head knots effectively derate the line strength to 45% of its original rating. Splicing Dyneema and using a thimble retains the full strength. Not an issue if you're 500% of requirements, but definitely worth noting if you're closer to the limits. WLL is also about a fifth of BL for Dyneema. Thanks for the video. Nice to see Dyneema replacing so much expensive hardware!

[@witchSailor]

Very good point about larks head not compromizing strength. Thank you!

[@wisenber]

@@witchSailor It is well worth noting. I'm using Amsteel 7/64 on my small trimaran. Spliced it is rated at 1600, with a larks head only 720. That's breaking load. Working load is recommended to be 1/5 of breaking load. You think you have 1600, when in reality is that the safe Working Load is a mere 144 with a larks head and 320 spliced. That works for the Hobie 14 rig I'm using on my boat, but barely. Thanks again for the information. I've been doing much of the same recently.

[@andrewbrown2063]

I agree, it is better to splice the fixing into the end loop, I use Blue Wave forged T Terminals with a ring in the end, to fit the existing box and grove up the mast. On the boat in this video, the base I’d use either a steel shackle or soft shackle fixed to a dead eye.

[@jamesrichy68]

Also, have you thought of a quick way to tension the shrouds, to tune the rig or make fine adjustments? Such a great video. Thank you.

[@witchSailor]

Thanks. No I have not thought of any quicker tensioning system. Way I show on video is simplest. Just needs to be done more frequently.

[@stanthology]

The "Rigging Doctor" has a video about that very subject! If I can find the link I will put it here. Found it. www.riggingdoctor.com/life-aboard/2016/7/11/synthetic-rigging-tensioning-system Holy Cow! It was right on the same page as this! kzbin.info/www/bejne/b6HXpqytqb2Alac

[@jamesrichy68]

Why did you stay with the two metal shrouds?

[@witchSailor]

All shrouds are dyneema. I highly recommend going all dyneema shrouds or all metal shrouds and not mixing because the two materials stretch differently. Good luck with your project!

[@kens2114]

G’day thanks for the video, I’m pretty sure I’ll change to Dyneema. I’m concerned with the UV problems as most are using 12 plait with no cover. What type did you use & how did you size it. I have a 33’ sloop, 5.5 tonne. It has 8 mm stainless with around 5500 kg breaking. Thinking 10mm dyneema would do the trick. Would appreciate your input cheers Ken

[@witchSailor]

Ken Strangward , 10mm dyneema is what I used on my 7 ton ketch. I think you'll find it far stronger breaking strength then your 8mm steel. My backstays were done 5 years ago with 13mm dyneema. UV degradation in the form of fraying is clearly visible on outside of lines making it now like maybe 12mm dyneema; still way stronger than steel with hidden rust on inside. Best of luck!

[@kens2114]

Witch Sailor Thanks for the info, it makes sense. Cheers Ken

[@andrewbrown2063]

I am using 8mm plus dyneema Dux 10mm cover (to house the splices) to replace 8mm 30 year-old steel. I live in the sub-tropics where the sun is brutal to prefer the cover. I don’t really like the back to front winch set up for tensioning and am working on a simple lateral (along the line of the ropes) pulley system which I think is easy, blocks and prusics on the base and the stay.

[@otm646]

The radius through the toe rail is unacceptably tight. An 8:1 radius keep the original strength, a 5:1 drops it by 20%. You're at a near 1:1 cut the strength by at least 50% not the mention the fretting wear you mentioned.

[@witchSailor]

Thanks, you do mention a good point about tight bends. My situation unique in that line is going through hole in 1/2 inch, 13mm, aluminium hull drilled to bend only 45 degrees before stopper knot. Maybe ratios you mention more relevant to other material as dyneema seems able to take tight bends far better that other ropes.

[@dominictarrsailing]

​@@witchSailor enjoyed your videos, especially the advice to take a break and look around while you are up the mast! but I after thinking about it, I also had this concern. The radius through the aluminium, the radius around the plate at the top, but also the knots them selves. I started thinking, if the rig is now stronger than steel, where is the weak point now? normally a steel rig breaks at the fittings, I'd certainly wager that in this case, if this rig was stressed to breaking point it would break at the fittings too. It looks like the smallest radius is the hitch at the top or within the stopper knot. on the other hand, I also notice that you don't put a lot of tension in your rig (just hand tighten it, then tie off, not using the winch like other synthetic rigging videos) not sure what difference this would make though. The only real way to test (apart from waiting to capsize!) would be to make up the same thing and break it in a rope testing machine.

[@witchSailor]

Good question. I think weak point with dyneema is sunshine and chaffing. The 316 stainless steel most shrouds and stays are made from brush off UV rays. I've seen it cut through bronze shackles and snake holes through aluminum radar reflectors without blemishing it's shininess. Before dyneema, the stainless shrouds chaffed the jib sheet lines. Now I've got to watch the dyneema shrouds getting chaffed by the jib sheet lines. That said, it's slow process and at least I can see the chaffing and deterioration from the outside whereas with stainless it deteriates from the inside where you cannot see.

[@andrewbrown2063]

You can add dyneema cover to the Genoa sheets at the areas of potential chafe; and to the dynema stay of course. Secure in place with stitches maybe.

[@leaveonlywake]

What is the size of (displacement) your boat? I see on your site it is 10.5m in length. I am considering this for my 38' sloop which displaces 14k lb's. Also, is your forestay with the roller furler mounted on it stainless? Thanks!

[@witchSailor]

Displacement is 7 tons. Both forestays are stainless steel. Will keep stay with roller fueling system stainless but eventually I'll change inner stay to dyneema and replace all hanks on all sails I fly on it to soft dyneema hanks. Best of luck with your project.