Ditch the Diesel: Electric Sailboat Conversion Tips & Tricks | Step 367

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[@jamesaulgur4556]

I spent my entire career in variable speed drives everything from DC, AC, Servos, Steppers and all from fractional to 750 Hp compressor horse power drive systems. I had my own business doing this and am recently retired. I never delt with anything in the marine industry as my focus was in industrial applications. And I have to say that your knowledge and expertise in what you talk about is spot on... I have been a follower for many years and your credo of "Never buy a couch". I wish I knew that some 40 years ago... That being said. I am very impressed. I live vicariously though the both of you and what you are doing. One thing I wish you would have mentioned but it's no big deal is that the larger motor would give you a little more on the regen side. I love your you tubes and always look forward to your episodes.. Take care, God Bless and think of us in your wake... Jim Aulgur and the boys... We will be sailing with you...

[@rickcreel3657]

I am a jet fighter mechanic on our airplanes we started from the nose or bow and every foot aft we noted the location of every component, Also according to the clock we noted the direction from the center of the craft to each component. The first number on a wire is the distance from the front and the second number is the direction from the center line, 9 0'clock or 3 o'clock. When you are at the circuit breaker. The two numbers tell you the destination of the wire. Any place the wire can easily be accessed The numbers can be seen. You don't need a wiring diagram. Numbers can be purchased that are like a wedding ban that goes over the wire when you are wiring a boat. Large grey electrical PVC with oval access at the top lets you add or remove wires for the future.

[@beatdizzy]

This is genius.

[@lydiaajohnson]

Cool

[@anthonyrstrawbridge]

✌️👶🚬👍

[@_instabil]

What a helpful and substantive speech. Others need a script and a teleprompter to present such a topic halfway fluently. It is a pleasure to listen to you!

[@mumblbeebee6546]

I am thinking that maybe the mobile phone they were holding at times was the script :) but that does not take anything away from anything you wrote, I agree! Fantastic presentation, pleasant to listen to, pleasant to watch too! And very kind to share all of those insights!

[@JustFlyIt09]

We just finished the electric conversion of our Catalina 400. Your videos now and in the past really helped our decision making process. We went with Electric Yacht QT 30. Its a 30kW motor (liquid cooled) supported by 540 Amh lithium batteries. The cost kept me up at night for a while but wow, what a great ride. Quiet, smooth, no maintenance...its just awesome! We picked the much larger motor trying to future proof our system a bit...we should be able to take advantage of the battery tech improvement that you have mentioned. As you mentioned though, regen is a bit of the holy grail for us...our motor and current configuration doesn't regen for crap but we are working on it🙂 Forgot to mention...we kept our motor system and house system separate for the reasons that you have just mentioned. The simplicity of the separate systems has been nice and reduce the conversion pain. Thanks for your videos...they really inspire me. No, I won't be doing the Artic Ocean/Iceland runs but knowing the potential helps me set my own goals.

[@dennisbrok9335]

At what kw do you run the motor to get boat speed

[@JustFlyIt09]

I have to admit it…I don’t remember but we will be out this weekend and I will recollect some numbers. We only use the motor to get in and out of the harbor and we generally run at 4kts.

[@robthompson7174]

Wow, 30kW is a huge system for the size of your boat! I'm curious what size cabling you have, because that is about 625 amp draw at WOT, and not even 150mm2/ AWG 0000 cable would carry that current.

[@chrisellsay5480]

Oceanvolt doesn't Regen either so good choice

[@JustFlyIt09]

Yeah, 30kW is big and I’m glad that we did it. The other week we got grounded in the channel. Just for grins I went full reverse. That big motor is yanked us out of there almost instantly. It was nuts!

[@gss7271]

Dan, consider installing two recycle lines into the water tank, regardless of "insulation". If Uma sails into cold weather again, recirculation water from the head or from the salon, into the tank, will help keep your water fluid. It's not a system that would need activation all the time, but it could save the tank and lines from the expansion factor in "cold as ice" climates. Greg 🇨🇦

[@shanefiddle]

Omg! You two are my heros. Absolutely transforming the sailing industry by quietly going out and breaking established norms, and having fun while doing it. And bringing the world along for the ride! I have been watching the sailing forum discussions completely transform around electric sailboat thinking, and Uma keeps being name dropped. You two are making a name for yourself in history.

[@wendywilliams3098]

The fact that you entertained me for 39 minutes, and I know less than nothing about this subject, is a testament to your talent!!! I have connected an inverter to my truck battery to plug in a coffee maker and an air mattress pump. That's it, that's all I know about this. I can not sleep on the ground and have coffee in the woods!!! Love you guys!

[@douglashaag1127]

As an 81 year old with a diesel powered sailboat just two feet shorter than yours, there is no way the idea of electrifying my boat makes any sense. At my age I am not cruising long distances and I can probably count the years of my sailing life that remain on the fingers of one hand.. And yet, you had me entertained and interested for 39 minutes as well. That's a testament to your communication skills. Are you sure you studied architecture and not communications?

[@MaShcode]

Fundational! 😂 I’m glad you always point out - Uma’s a sailboat. She uses sails. That’s her primary function. Everything else is an additional convenience for safety and peace of mind. Good luck with the refit.

[@sabemajeen]

Just when you think you have a naked interior.....then there is more. You both have a lot of patience with all the construction, deconstruction, filming, producing, and camping etc. it's truly quite a feat of accomplishment and determination....very impressive!

[@BirgitLindvig]

Hey Guys, My wife and I are in our 80's. Your bending of you r knees getting into Uma`s tight spaces is incredible. Been following you for several years. Really enjoy your adventure!!

[@jannepeltonen2036]

Super interesting video! I've asked about a quote from Oceanvolt a couple times now, but the problem is, my brother who's the co owner of the boat wants to retain the possibility of motoring for 160 miles in two days... So if we go for that, some kind of hybrid system would be necessary. And then I started calculating the CO2 emissions of manufacturing motors and batteries and realized that if I keep the old diesel in good condition, I use it so little anyway that I can go for 80 years or something before the CO2 emissions from using the diesel would reach the level of the CO2 emissions for an electric conversion... It's a sailboat, after all. Already a hybrid system, with a backup diesel engine.

[@jannepeltonen2036]

...that said, if the current diesel does give up the ghost at some point, that will change the calculation considerably :D

[@SailingUma]

That's a great mindset to have, and one we always share. If you have something that works. Keep it. Love it. Repair it. It's almost always better to fix what you have that to buy something new.

[@barilro]

I assume you are being sponsored by Oceanvolt. Reason i am saying this is their are other manufacturers with proven regen performance. We own a Windelo catamaran and have done two Atlantic crossings with no diesel used to recharge the batteries while taking hot showers every night. (Meaning no cut back on confort) Regarding your ratio of dividing by 4, ours is 2 so not sure about the 4. All the other stuff you talked about, we agree with.What is important about a genset in a hybrid system is to have a 48v genset (not common) so if your batteries trip say on temperature, the genset can drive the motor direct while bypassing the batteries. Water cooled motor and controller is important as you said to have a robust system.

[@ERo1972]

I love your sailing when you do sail, but I have to say, the technical analysis of when you rebuild your boat is by far my favourite. Your design skills combined with your technical knowledge is very inspiring. Looking forward to seeing how uma turns out this time round. ❤️

[@SurfinScientist]

Yes, I agree. Their technical and design skills are impressive!

[@essendossev362]

learning about this process is INCREDIBLE. I'm still so glad you went the direction of fixing up Uma, and even more so that we're along for the ride!

[@gsh341]

I love how you're putting so much effort into the design of the remodel to correct issues. It's especially great that you take the time to explain it all. I really think boat manufacturers and the boating industry in general will benefit from your experiences.

[@cathisayers3573]

I can’t wait for UMA rebuild. I started with you 2 back right before the Atlantic crossing an loved everything you have posted in your adventures.

[@livingwitheart]

You have no idea how much you are helping me right now.. I have an older Allied seawind 35 that I am completely refitting. I was thinking about relocating the panel and after this, I will definitely do that. Thank you so much..

[@ghost307]

Some people are never satisfied. You post a video on your camper; people complain that it's not a boat video. You post a boat video; people complain that it's not a sailing video. Aughh. Just keep on doing what you're doing and never forget that the first people to complain are usually the last people to offer to help. Already looking forward to the next adventure.

[@srgraham9172]

Watching the cockpit locker portion, all I could think was “these funny fools deserve each other” and “damn this is such a fab couple”

[@teedub1990]

I didn't understand most of what you talked about but weirdly, I still enjoyed the video.

[@Bjorn.Cotteleer]

Fantastic, decent & thorough explanation. Making this video probably the most valuable video for the tech guys or girls. As you mentioned that when the batteries die, that everything dies. Well on the big ships that have to comply with SOLAS regulations, GMDSS reg. (And much more reg.). It is always compulsory to have a 24V set for the VHF, MF/HF, Satcom, etc. So as you mentioned yourself, it is really something to keep in mind. Also, something I have not seen on Uma (or I missed it), please install an EPIRB outside free floating. If anything happens wherever in the world, the MRCC will know your distress and location these days under ten minutes. Thanks for your awesome videos, love your channel & Godspeed on your adventures.

[@SailingUma]

We have an EPIRB, Iridium, and PLB's

[@CapitalVideo]

Love the screen concept as I have just used a 7 by 5 metre white tarpaulin as a temporary screen, for a 1915 vintage cinema that we are re-opening after a 40 year halt in operations, as we are on a tight budget until we can raise the necessary amount to get an expensive proper screen. We have already been able to source a second hand projector and have had a surround sound system donated, so all up we have spent less than $1000 so far. I have loved watching your videos for the past few years and look forward to many more.

[@markkennedy5547]

Great video! About the battery life. Lithium Ion batteries are rated for 300-500 cycles. BattleBorn and others are typically Lithium Iron Phosphate, which are rated for 3,000 - 5,000 cycles. Plus Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries don’t pose the fire risk that Lithium ion batteries have.

[@stevenichols4639]

LFP batteries also can be fully charge to 100% at all times they don’t have a problem with the dendrites, that conventional lithium ion batteries have

[@Explore_RC]

​@@stevenichols4639Sorry, don't agree. I've seen articals about this. All batteries will have a shelf life, regardless of use.

[@somebody1869]

I converted in 2014. 8hp YSB8 Yanmar became a 5.5kw ElectroProp system. Basically a typical Motenergy brushless motor (air cooled) with a Sevcon gen4 controller (110A continuous). I put together a 100ah pack of lithium iron phosphate cells for energy storage and a 1500W charger that the BMS could interrupt on over-voltage detection. It gave me basic range of about 10nm at 4kts. Wind and chop could cut that down pretty quick though. I also had a 2000w portable generator for range extension. That could run my charger at 23A as long as I had gas for it. Fast forward to 2022 and we decided to upsize the battery from 5 to 15kwh. Prices and energy density have certainly come down. My new 15kwh pack weighs only double what my 5kwh pack weighed. And is only about twice the volume. The new battery talks to my Victron stuff and can control the charging. I also opted to relocate the battery from behind the motor under the cockpit to a custom rack I built into the main saloon table. The new battery is 100kg, located above the keel bolts. The frame is built from 8020 aluminum extrusion. It’s designed to let me slide the battery modules in and remove them easily for the winter, since we get some very cold temperatures in the winter that could freeze the electrolyte and permanently damage the cells.

[@sviriecat]

Thanks, great video. You guys inspired us to go all electric. We went with 2 Torqeedo motors, 20kw of batteries, and 2.2kw of solar charging. 7 months in and it’s working out wonderfully. We charge our 12v house with a 20a dc to dc from the motors 48v bank. Also, works great!

[@derekvanderbyl4]

Thank you, that is really helpful, I've been considering an electric conversion on my Beneteau 305 for a while. Some of the real world comparisons were great food for thought, impressed how much you guys achieved with early technology. Best of luck with the rest of the project, love the Land Rover too 😀

[@somebody1869]

I’d love to chat with you guys over some sundowners about what I’ve done for my onboard energy storage. I built my own battery systems using EVE LF304K cells. A 16S 15kwh for the propulsion and a 4S 4kwh for the house loads. My thinking was to use the same cells in both so that should a cell go bad in my propulsion bank, i can scavenge from my house bank, and run house loads from a dc converter until replacements can be arranged. I normally charge at dock but I only have enough room about 200W of solar, which charges the 12v. The mppt controller can also send power to a dump load which is a 12-48 boost converter to send any excess solar to the 48v. I also have spare mppt that can use the 48v as a PV input and charge the 12v if needed. So energy can be sent wherever it’s needed. I think the energy management aspect is the most important in a conversion.

[@sawomir9030]

Amazing episode! I don't have any boat or anything but I'm electronics engineer and watching how much knowledge you gained and the way you present it, is just great!💪 Just a small notice: You might be a bit too optimistic about lifecycle of a lithium batteries 😉

[@surfdiveclimb2914]

I’ve watched you two for years now. But I had fallen off. I come back, and you’re tearing your boat apart. It’s interesting cause I felt like I was there watching so much of it go in, to see it come out was a bit sad. But also very exciting BECAUSE the thing I always loved about y’all as opposed to other “sailor shows” is you guys got in there and showed everyone what and most importantly, HOW you were doing everything. And I also just love how creative you guys were. It inspired me to get my first boat, an Oday 27, which I spent a year fixing up and learning the lines during Covid. I got her for $200 and she was half full of water and sold her for a tidy profit to a guy who, when I asked why he wanted to buy a boat, he said, “Have you ever seen Sailing Uma?” I’m getting ready for boat #2. And I’m super pumped to see what you two imaginative sailor/architects do with Uma next. ❤

[@johnnydfred]

So interested in this subject! Hope you do another in-depth ep on this.

[@jeffipoo49]

Awesome info and so entertaining. Kika miming “chalk me up” as she climbed out of the cabin was a classic bit and had me in stitches. Xoxo and best success going forward.

[@marcbarash6045]

You both are just incredible. I have been watching your videos since you began posting. You have come a very long way and lots of energy to keep going.

[@Charles-cs8mv]

I really like the videos travelling along thought processes and idea developments. The style you have, the sense for aesthetics, the mix of different content, the different projects - all that is so nice to watch and follow. Love you guys. Wish you the best!

[@arthurtopilow2409]

I particularly like the way your videos are so professionally done. You could could teach video/film editing in Hollywood.

[@barryinkpen6026]

As a life long electronic and electrical guy I was very impressed by your explanation of your system and future plans. Clearly a lot of thought, research and testing has brought you to this point. I'd definitely go with the small 12v battery system as you described it. Being on a boat is the ultimate in being on your own. On another note you mentioned your "sticky" fibreglass in the locker. You probably know that either painting it with air dry resin, or a coat of poly vinyl alcohol (PVA) will cure the old resin and get rid of the stickiness. Good luck with your on going adventure. Well done!!

[@SailingElectra]

Very interested in how you got to your divide hp by 4 to get the kw you need to go different speeds. My boat originally had 2 x 10hp diesels which I've replaced with 2 x 6kw electrics. Unfortunately i never used it with the diesels, so it's hard to compare, but i seen to get around hull speed with 7kw combined on both motors. Interestingly i find that running two motors gives more efficiency than one motor with twice the power. Another bonus is that I'm on a small catamaran which means loads of space for solar. I've got 3200w on a 30 foot boat!

[@stopthephilosophicalzombie9017]

This is the kind of episode I was looking forward to with the resurrection of Uma. Oh and Kika's got impressive guns.

[@slightadrift]

Yup! i'm all electric also, and have a lifepo4 100aH 12v buffer battery set at 13.2V (or roughly 70%) from the dc to dc converters, which is perfect for longevity, and, if my 48v house bank goes down i have 70aH @ 12v of battery time to figure my shit out. Works great, and is also helpful for those higher 12v loads (electric winch ect). Also, You're one of a select few that have consistently held my interest from the beginning. Love your works guys.

[@ThoughtsfromTOM]

This presentation gave me a lot to think about. I am presently an all electric van owner using it for remodeling and really want a bit more “juice” to power everything. Adding solar and lithium makes sense and you started me thinking of the possibilities. Thanks and enjoy the BVI’s next week even though it is a catamaran with a diesel engine.

[@andreasarncken8309]

love your series. Have been servicing boats for over 25years and just had a flashback when I saw the steering wire sheaves when you were sitting below the cockpit: I understand that Uma is a bit older. Have you ever changed the stainless steering chain? You are vivid sailours and while sailing under harsh conditions, these tend to break, specially when 10 years or older. I have had a total of 5 chains broken in the Caribbean, some during races, some during delivery trips... you cannot see if a SS chain is going to fail, unless it already started to give. SS gets brittle over time, specially when stamped during manufacturing, which is why you should change your rigging every 10 odd years as well. Might be well worth considering if you have not yet done so

[@SailingUma]

We haven’t changed it yet. Probably a good idea. But also the helm is only one of three ways we have to steer. So it would be inconvenient, but not catastrophic if it broke.

[@jacklougheed4561]

The new thing in batteries is Lithium Iron. It’s heavier than lithium ion, and doesnt have the same discharge rate, however they are completely happy being both completely full as well as completely empty. The really big benefit is that they aren’t flammable. Just bought you folks should know. Also on the solar panels: look into bi-facial panels. Very cool and can produce up to 70% of the rated output on the back of the panel. They have a clear back sheet so they let some light through.

[@velotill]

I think thats what they were referring to when mentioning "these days there are lots of different LiIon batteries out there" :) the battle borns they are removing now were already LiFePo 12V blocks

[@darwinmerryfield477]

Outstanding, understand better the layering Uma has gone thru over the years. Looking forward to more vids on where the improvements are coming from and why!

[@bulldog6925]

Both of you being technically savvy (i.e., educated) has resulted in great videos where each contributes to the overall theme of the video as well as making for interesting discussion.

[@feedurheadhesaid]

Wanted to share my experience running victron systems with 48v lifepo4 house bank with the 12v side. First off i still had a diesel engine and genset so i did have one 12v agm battery for starting. For my 12v charging i had the victron 20a 48/12 dc-dc converter but also had their 20a ip67 ac to dc battery charger. The efficiency (according to specs) between the dc-dc and the dc-ac then ac-dc end up being within 1% of eachother since their 48v inverters are so efficient. I set the dc-dc converter to .1v below float voltage and just left them both connected. Liked the redundancy and with the agm never had an issue with heavier 12v loads like my electric heads or windlass. I would definitely keep a small 12v agm battery in a full electric boat set up, with the battery charger and ir dc-dc converter always hooked up it will rarely cycle and last for a very long time

[@Sam_Sung_White]

Thanks for your informative tips. I research hundreds of hours while designing the system for my boat. Now after using it for 6 months I now see things that could have been done better.

[@mpetrino7330]

Kika and Dan hi from Calgary. I've had the pleasure of following Sailing Uma since before day one. One thing the industry as a whole has failed to acknowledge is that Uma One is the very first all electric propulsion mono cruising boat out there. Makes this rebuild project make so much sense now with all the water that's passed under your hull. From a lot of extreme locations with very short or zero day light hours, you guys know what you are speaking of. While everyone else was talking, researching and lab bench testing you were out there doing it for real collecting real on the water information. Combine your on the water success with some of the power industry improvements UMA Two will be the all electric drive/living yacht on the water to catch up too. No doubt both of you will bring your architectural degrees to the overall design concept and finishes, watch out IKEA and Home Depot 😄 Any consideration given to investing the time, talent and capital into a slightly larger hull to work with?. nothing nuts 8' max maybe. I know making it all work within the constraints of Uma one will be a tremendous success for both of you. Whatever you choose to do I'm excited for you can't wait to watch it all come together. Great choice to acquire the truck as living quarters during the renovation. Always nice to not eat,sleep and recreate in the middle of your renovation. Almost always the first suggestion I'd provide to my clients "do yourselves a favor rent a corporate apartment for 6 to 12 months and charge the cost to financing your project you won't regret a single dollar of it. Wishing you the very best going forward".

[@soggybottom3463]

Great (and very educational) unmissable content. Take your time guys, have confidence in yourselves (we have) and do this right. You are (and have been) trail blazers for the electric boat revolution. God bless and thanks again 👍👏👏👏.

[@MikeBanks2003]

I do not know if I have said this to you two, but if I have bear with me. There is a great ploy I learned for reinforcing a hull internally, especially in the way of mast steps, hull sides near the collision potential areas close to and under the waterline, and it is such a simple ploy I am astonished no one else seems to have come up with it. I use a well known structure proven in aircraft--the D-Spar. Simply, one pulls out ones vessel, checks the hull lines according to the plans, and adds external forces such as stacked sand bags to get the hull sides back where they were originally. Once the hull is level and symmetrical, the next steps require the internal sand blasting of the hull to remove any finish in any areas to be reinforced. In my case all of the underwater areas and up and across the deck shelf, as well as the underside of the deck. Now one gets the cloth one intends to add to the hull, and begins at the bow. One layer of triaxial is usually more than enough, and it has to be fitted closely. Because it is not very flexible, one may need to fill any tight curves using a mixture of cotton or hemp fibre and epoxy resin plus a bit of Cabosil, to radius any corners without losing strength. One can then, if one wishes, put a length of woven rovings over these areas for even greater strength. I only ever use epoxy resins for upgrading or repairing polyester boats. Two main reasons, better adhesion, and variations in cure speed by using different hardeners and resins. Epoxy releases fumes, and one requires a supplied air system (a filter is not good enough) and a full protective suit. There is no such thing as a safe epoxy, but some are safer than are others. Now--assuming one has gone through the internal parts of the hull requiring an additional layer of glass, where I am to replace any frames, or add cant frames, or simply to use geodesic reinforcements between one frame and another, or as strengthens to the frames themselves, I use a base layer of glass matt, say twenty centimetres for a small beam, and roll it into place using a slow cure resin. On top of this I place PVC pipe which has been flamed to slightly oxidise the surface, then sawn in half lengthwise to provide two lengths of curved PVC. These can be end cut to fit into any areas as required. Where the edges of the PVC meet the base glass layer, a popsicle stick as a trowel and some phenolic micro-balloons and epoxy putty mix makes a nice radius for the covering layers of glass, Another, say, 20 cm of glass tape is put over the PVC so that it is slightly inboards of the base layer, covers the PVC, and that is about it--maybe just a little extra, The next layer of tape begins inwards from the other edge of the base and goes over the PVC from the opposite direction, and the final layer of tape is rolled exactly over the PVC with equal amounts on each side and onto the base. I use different sizes of PVC depending on the strength required, one uses tapes cut to requirements and as many layers as is deemed necessary. PVC can be bent in situ over the cured base layer using 5-Minute Araldite while one holds it, or using ratchet clamps in reverse as jacks to hold it. I love this in-situ beam construction technique because not only is it strong, easy to use and cheap, it also allows wiring to be run through the interior of the new spar, and thence be used as required. In my case for bilge pumps and the charging of remote batteries and lighting. Before using it yourself, please make some test beams and have them tested, or test them yourselves. Only then will you decide if these comparatively unobtrusive beams (especially if geodesic) are safe, adequate or even suitable for your needs. For making web frames, the process is similar, but instead of PVC sawn pipe, I use CCA treated wood or better still, stacked laminates of PVC closed cell foam. After glassing, sandwich panels or heavy plywood bulkheads are through bolted and also glassed to these frames. When such a frame encircles the entire hull, it can serve as keel support, chain plate support, as well as deck beam and mast pillar support.

[@paulcupach8196]

I installed an Electric Yatch system for my conversion from a dying atomic 4. Luckily, I have an electric power included in my slip/dock fees, so I dont worry about regeneration. Im on a relatively small to medium size lake, so "motoring" long distances isn't a significant issue. I have a 12" folding Max Prop installed, so I have reduced drag during sailing operations verses a 3 or 2 blade fixed prop. So far, my experience with my electric motor has been outstanding! I can motor over 20 miles at 3 to 4 knts, which is more than enough to get me back to the dock without worrying about running out of battery power. My biggest challenge was finding a good location to install the 400amp Lithium battery bank. Looking back, I could have gotten by with a 200AMP battery bank for my use. The instant access to power and almost no noise has been something that everyone notices as soon as I use the motor. So my total investment in the electric motor system was almost $10k. This includes installing all the "other" pieces parts that aren't listed as what is needed to create a safe electric motor system. Appropriate gauge wiring, lugs, connectors, master power distribution switches & panels. While some people may not need to use / install new wiring, I found that a 50 year old boat needed to get modern wiring for the 12v and 48v system.

[@JustFlyIt09]

Your comment about instant access to power and almost no noise is the same for us. We really love our Electric Yacht system. I like the lack of maintenance too...we have drastically reduced the number of worry about items on our boat!

[@paulcupach8196]

@JustFlyIt09 Bingo on the reduced maintenance. My winterization takes me 5 mins. Turn off switches and ensure no loose connections, then walk away.

[@JustFlyIt09]

@@paulcupach8196 yay!

[@jvphelan1]

Bought a 1967 LeComte 33 with an Atomic 4. Watched your conversion a few years ago and got excited. I have been driving a Tesla since 2013 so I’m a convert and remain one. This winter removing A4 and installing an OceanVolt system. Rick at OceanVolt says hi. Lucky to have him doing conversion work. We discussed your work. Looking forward to having this done and ready for 2024 season. Thanks guys for your leadership!

[@couttsw]

Just after I installed my present batteries into my wheelchair, Victron came out with an upgraded LiFePo4 battery system that includes built in BMS per battery and a Battery protect system that is bluetooth programmable with alarms capability which will cut the loads to the motor but not prevent charging. In your case for critical loads like communications and autopilot, I'd recommend tapping the batteries rather than a lot of DC/DC Converters. Determine how much power is needed for the critical load and then take a 12v or 24v feed directly off 2 or 4 or 8 batteries at 12v just to feed those loads. Your BMS will balance all the cells regardless of how you pull power. But you have the battle borns there already, so use some of those for the hotel loads and for emergency power / communications, radar and Autopilot. I have a battery protect on my batteries which is programmable to .1 of a volt, and an alarm relay so that once the batteries get to a point in the discharge cycle I am alerted it's time to call a taxi or get out and push well before my batteries drop below 3.1v per cell. Go talk to Victron Marine and get their input.

[@carjacklane3930]

Most informative 4 real no sponsors etc Also perfect couple Cant wait 4 adventures to come

[@jongdt]

Dan and Kika, we really enjoyed your video and it is absolutely spot on. We are following your channel from the beginning and you are our inspiration for going electric as well, for which we are very gratefull. Our Jeanneau 30 sailboat has a 7.5kW WW motor, 10.5kWh 48V LiFEPO4 (would like to have 15kWh) and induction stove. This setup works very well., and we are sailing in the Netherlands. We also run a DC-DC converter for the 12V systems, but with a separate 12V/60Ah LiFEPO4 battery as an emergency/backup battery. This battery is normally only connected to the bilge pump, but can be connected with a simple switch to the 12V supply in case the 48V system is switched off or has failed. We need to charge this battery separate and heavy loads tops out the converter which is not ideal, so perhaps your new system will also end up in our boat in the future.

[@rolandtb3]

Great video summarizing some of the important considerations for your rebuild based on 10 yrs lessons learned. Everything will make more sense as each phase of the rebuild gets completed.

[@sailingheretic]

I have enjoyed watching and learning from your very early days. I hope this synopsis of your hard won wisdom is accurate for someone NOT interested in regen using a 2500# trailer sailer: For electric motors, rule-of-thumb #1: 1HP (=750W) for every 1500 lbs of displacement :: [ 2500 lbs / 1500 lbs ] x 750W = 1250 W = 1.25 kW Rule-of-thumb #2: Required electric motor ≈ petrol engine HP divided by four Electric motor kW ≈ 6-8 HP / 4 ≈ 1.5 - 2.0 kW NOTE1: Overheating is a big concern for electric propulsion, which can be mitigated by water cooling (inboard or outboard) and purchasing an oversized motor which can be run continuously at a lower percentage of max power. NOTE 2: A 48V DC motor is a good compromise between efficiency and safety I would love it if you would do a video on prop selection. Methinks a slow turning, high diameter, low pitch prop with 3-4 blades is best for 3-5 knot cruising speed while taking advantage of the low end torque of an electric motor. I agree with your sentiment that performance numbers from most motor vendors are inaccurate and wildly optimistic.

[@SailingUma]

Prop selection is easy. If you want good regen, you need a servo prop to adjust the the pitch to all 4 sailing conditions. If you don't care about regen. Then you can pick just about any prop for your motor speed and RPM.

[@jimb348]

Another KZbin channel, Emily and Clarks Adventure, has some really good videos about having lead and lithium. Clark is an electrical engineer and created a bank management system that lets you safely combine lead and lithium. I like that he fully explains what it does and how it works, totally upfront and no BS. He doesn't make unsupported claims and really just explains what situations it is good for and doesn't give any hard sell. The exact situation you ran in to is one of the main reasons for it. Also if you do have a diesel engine with high output alternator or a gen set and you are charging your lithium and suddenly the BMS turns off the batteries you can blow out the diodes in your alternator. Also lately he's been disassembling cheap LiFePo4 and testing them and rating them.

[@martinpaquette2631]

Dan and Kika, did I miss the list of Battery Manufacturers that you trusted in the comments or description? I am super interested in which Manufacturers you trust. Thanks

[@MarcusBehrens]

yes, would be great to have this short list of trsuted batteries

[@donaldhoudek2889]

For your momentary LED light dimming issue when activating motors or other heavy electrical loads, you may want to purchase a few DC Super Capacitors and install them next to your main break(s) that supply the power to your LED's and on the breakers that supply power to your Nav Gear. The capacitors stay charged and will keep the voltage/current from dropping when you activate a large electrical load on the 12 VDC system. I designed and built a small system for my Energy Management & Home Automation system (5VDC) to maintain a constant voltage for the SBC's while the power is switched automatically from Solar power to Grid transformer power and back when needed. The voltage never drops while the supply voltage is in the process of switching. Keeps the SBC's from constantly rebooting the little computers are much happier. Great Video!

[@akkebengtsson6232]

There are potential problems using super capacitors this way. - the discharge current in case of a short could exceed the capacity of the wiring between the capacitor and the short. - when initially charging the capacitor, it functions as a perfect short cirquit. The charging cirquit and the wiring must be able to handle that. - the voltage out will decrease exponentially when the feed cuts out, potentially meaning a risk for brownouts.

[@ArcticSeaCamel]

This was great. You pretty much confirmed my thoughts of electric propulsion and things around it. For my boat, I’m currently leaning to 2-4 big and separate 48v banks with individual BMS’s in them. If one fails there’s still another bank to use. And all this without any unnecessary complications. Bigger prismatic cells can offer the currents needed for propulsion and it much easier to keep them in balance that way. IMO there’s not any point to make battery bank for usage like this from 12V individual batteries with separate BMS’s. Keep it up!

[@hmk..]

Great video. Uma at its best. talking & explaining technology . I have never listened to each word on a video like this. This is one of the best uma video. thanks a lot. Good Job !

[@EcoNumbersNMore]

Great video as usual! Regarding the issue of LFP batteries shutting down suddenly despite SoC being is far above any critically low levels is related to lack of calibration. The SoC that is shown is an estimation, and even with the best BMSs, if the battery has been discharging and charging for example between 30% and 90% for a long time, i.e. many ups and downs, the SoC estimation becomes less accurate. Therefore, at some point, the voltage drops steeply and the BMS shuts the battery off. To overcome this problem, one should charge the battery to 100% from time to time, ideally in every cycle. Tesla for example recommends that for its cars with LFP batteries.

[@SailingUma]

Yes. We usually charge up at least once a week to 100% (aka let the batteries get to "float") That wasn't why ours went flat though.

[@luceebucee5315]

Best video yet on conversion. As usual, top material from Sailing Uma. I really admire you two. Thanks!

[@nickstravels]

Great video. Really enjoying the journey towards a finished Uma v. 9.7. The marine electric manufacturers will learn a great deal from you two.

[@billspalding9993]

Even a small Daysailor has many more options for electric in the last few years. I started with a 12-volt electric Trolling motor after I had a gasoline spill in the boat. Not enough "thrust". So I got a 36-volt trolling motor with 3 35-ah AGM batteries. (Torqueedo was just hitting the market back then). Those batteries were heavy and needed to be carried ashore in the dingy for charging. I just use the motor on and off the mooring or dock so I found a smaller AGM for a mobility scooter that was really too small for peak load. I burned two of those up over a few years. Then that one was unavailable so I ganged up 3 12 volt AGM at 12ah I think. Worked for a while. I'd still lug the big 35-ah pack if I thought I needed more range. Then I tried a new 12-volt trolling motor with more thrust than my original using a lithium 60-ah battery rated for a lot of current. I also used a 10-watt solar panel for charging. the solar worked great. After 2 years the thrust was really still not what I needed. So I bought a new 36-volt 60-ah battery and went back to the 36-volt trolling. Series 3 12-volt 10-watt solar panels to charge it. Really an ideal setup except I think the solar peak voltage burned out my small cheap 36 to 12-volt power for the bilge pump and 2 lights. The solar peaks at 18 volts each so 54 volts goes over spec. I need to replace with it a 48 to 12 power supply that has a wide enough band to go from 30 to 60 volts on the high side. Really about the same cost (under $30) so it was just bad engineering on my part. But If I was starting from scratch there are "electric outboards" available today which would be the way to go. The ability of a relatively small solar panel to keep up with the occasional short use of the motor over the season is a game changer. Nothing to haul out in the dingy, and the motor runs immediately every time with just a twist of the throttle.

[@nearlynativenursery8638]

Guys thanks for the tons of good information concerning lithium power, electric motor options, and general planning and designing the lay out of ones boat for ease of sufficient access. All the Very Best! Jim Rodgers

[@archivemanager2734]

1 horsepower is equal to 746 watts or 0.746 Kilowatt. Electric motors develop their turning-force "Torque" at low speed. so you can easily increase your propeller size by an 1-inch or 2. The propeller pitch angle can also be altered to apply more relative thrust per revolution. Electric motors definitely need cooling so go for liquid flow cooling model, either recycle oil as the cooling fluid with fully enclosed system or ensure you have a very good quality seawater cycling system " stainless steel tubing etc. and install a water intrusion detection system in case it leaks

[@cyclomaniac9086]

Rock Stars... don't ever change. Great info.... Thanks!

[@barryinkpen6026]

Running wire in conduit is awesome! I always leave a string in each conduit in the event you need to run the odd wire in the future. Yeah yeah; you probably already know that LOL !

[@olafschermann1592]

48V - i totally agree! On my wish list are native 48V refrigerators, washing machines, … Would be much more efficient than converting down to 12V or use 230V sinus inverters.

[@Happ465]

Just did a quick calculation. Based on an average 24 hr speed of 6 knots you would travel 144 nm. Based on a 1/4 of a knot drag you are talking about .04% loss. If you average 5 knots you would have a .05% loss. That is minuscule. I think that proves your point.

[@Norskarkansas]

I think you mean 4%

[@keyem4504]

As soon as the boat reaches hull speed all additional energy created by the sails will be wasted anyway. You wouldn't notice the additional drag of the regen. I'd assume that it's most noticable in low wind conditions.

[@richardwallinger1683]

Around 32=02 bleedy thumb . ok one cannot create an omelet without cracking eggs ..OPTISANA fabric injury plasters from LIDL are a great GO TO .. small injury must go to list.this video is awesome .So much quality knowledge and hands on advice . being able to move forward in time 10 years is a wonderful opportunity . for you .

[@robertpshaw]

So, I was about 2 minutes into the motor discussion, which I have followed here for a few years, and trying to figure out what the heck Region had to do with electric motors, somehow thinking the European community had some additional specs that differentiated between NA, Pacific Rim and Europe. (also follow Basik, Wynns) Then Regeneration came to mind. Regen. Duh. And I am a technical guy.

[@SailingUma]

HA! Yeah it's sort of a slang fro Hydro Regeneration.

[@TheBowen747]

lol i did that 15 years ago , had projector ontop the golf cart along with a laptop windows pc w/ movies on it, and displayed on my neighbors camper side with no windows.. worked great solid white camper he had 5th wheel like mine , im going to boat not van. now.. i did that already wasnt that fun for me.. enjoy and stay safe out there....

[@johnalberto7855]

Hi Guys, first thank you guys for the shared info on the electric motor conversion. Recently I had to repair my 40hp diesel which cost me 5k. At first I looked into going electric but found very little response from manufactures (believe it or not) here in Ft Lauderdale, Fla. I think this industry is picking up and hope to see grater improvement soon. Can't wait to see the completed results, please keep in mind to post performance test results of the electric motor. Thank You

[@SailingUma]

It's not just the electric stuff, the marine industry as a whole is TERRIBLE and picking up the phone or responding to inquiries. It's something we deal with daily. We can't believe most marine companies are still in business. Maybe they get all their money from B2B and can't be bothered with us end users.

[@psychotimo]

On going electric, I haven't really done a deep dive into it. But on the practical side, I'm not so sure how they actually compare to diesel when it comes to cost/utility/..? Yeah the upfront vs slow trickle was talked about. as well as the limited lifespan, but the electric motor will draw a lot more power on top of what you're currently using, which also impacts the battery lifespan. like, I might be missing some updates on them and current day electrical sailboat motors might be a lot less greedy, but in general electrical motors do use a ton of power, limiting the lifespan of the charge, increasing wear on the batteries and needing a lot more solar/wind to refill them. so a standard motorboat would be ridiculously handicapped with electrical as compared to diesel. meaning that a sailboat for people that barely use their engines is basically the only situation I'd see the benefits of going full electric (basically, you barely use the motors so you change fuel tank to batteries and have tons of extra electricity for the 'house part' of the boat, without really sacrificing anything). and another important aspect IMO is troubleshooting/repair, unless you're an electrical engineer it'll be an issue to try and fix an electric motor. so you either need a spare motor and a way to exchange them. or need outside help and buy a new motor/send it in for repairs which takes time and costs more than self-repair. whereas basic mechanic and maintenance skills tend to be enough to fix most small issues on a diesel engine. (like, the entry point for self repair/maintenance seems a lot higher for electrical engines) Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to bash on electrical motors, like I think it's a good idea in general. I'm just not sure whether we actually reached a point where they provide enough benefits to replace diesel engines. And I'm just trying to gather extra info on their current viability :P

[@patrickfalter4487]

Great episode, hope you guys get a consulting gig on electrical systems with your sailboat, you have the best knowledge, living it or what we called back in the day, hard knocks. A few weep holes in those battery boxes would work wonders, no matter where they go in the future. Would have loved to be the guy walking by your boat and hearing a full blown conversation coming from the cockpit locker :)

[@rubn12345]

Hi guys - are you forgetting E-propulsion Pod motors? They have 1-6kw motors with super easy install, all very focused on regent as well with up to 1040 watts (at 10knlts, and 500 watts at 7 knots). Great video though :)

[@timfish]

Most LiFePO4 batteries, which are the recommended chemistry for boats, are rated for 3-5k cycles depending on quality

[@dc1544]

I can remove 1 of my battery banks easy and still use the other 3 for checking them or whatever reason is needed. That is another reason why connecting each bank to a bus bar with a cutoff switch is huge. I turn off BMS then flip a breaker to isolate each battery bank. Using AGM and Lifep04 cells together only is needed when using wind generators with solar. AGM is not needed if you do not have a hybrid setup.

[@avoirdupois1]

I like the cute new watermark! This project has taught me a lot about boat maintenance and planning.

[@bishopkinlyside8477]

Hi guys, wow when you said you’re gonna give Uma a refit, you certainly are taking everything out I’m bringing only new in. Keep up the good work guys. Love and appreciate you both, Cliff from Logan City Queensland Australia 🇦🇺🧑🏾‍🦽

[@jerrycooke6511]

I'm a marine techie here in Canada and around. I've kinda been getting bored which is weird with all the new tech. I'm just switching my 3rd boat to electric...but even with new stuff, not exciting. On the RR yachts that Gone with the Wynns are buying...new way to do electric..I'm sure there are other systems. Essentially it is power points spread around the boat and electronics to turn things on and off, rather like a bus and addresses. I think of it as a network essentially of mini solenoids. It really will change things. About to rewire a tug for a client and will see if they will go for it. Thought you'd be interested. An expanded computer bus for all the peripherals. And a course fault checking to dream of.

[@SailingUma]

I believe you're referring to remote switching. It's very common on yachts to cut down on weight of all that wiring. It is pretty cool tech. We're considering installing a system on Uma, but it also comes with many downsides. Like trouble shooting. The systems need to be really well thought out and programmed to work well. Otherwise you're left in the dark not able to turn you lights on because there's bug in the programming for the light switch. I believe C-Zone is the most well know. But also expensive and old tech. Some manufactures like Daz Cat just build their own systems. We'll see if we can find a good enough system to instal on Uma this year and if we do, be sure to make a video all about it.

[@SailingElectra]

Since you're getting a new 48V battery bank why not just keep a couple of your best battleborns for the 12V bank. Losing all instruments and lights because you trip the BMS on the 48V bank makes it so much harder to resolve issues and potentially ask for help. You already have the battle borns so there's no cost in keeping a few.

[@hankus253]

I wondered the same thing for the EV car we just purchased. It has a lead acid 12V battery that is charged from the lithium bank. Why DO they do it that way?

[@jackdbur]

Because all of the equipment in cars is designed for 12v.

[@mariankerler2134]

​@@hankus253Hi, it's regulations (at least in Europe). You need 2 powersources for Lights, Brakesystem and so on. Why Lead I think there are cheap and Well knowb

[@EricBuissink]

Enjoyd the video as usual. To me another big advantage to chose for 48V is that you can run thinner cabling for the heavy users. Less copper, less money and weight.

[@nuthenry2]

i would do what atomic voyages does with his conversions, create multiple water tight bulkheads wherever possible. This this will protect you in case of a crash as the flooding would be resigned to a smaller area

[@RenegadeADV]

Those Battleborns are great in a 12 volt system, but specifically they are not supposed to be used in 48 volt systems because the internal BMS can only see what is going on in that battery, not the entire bank, the lack of a CANBUS on them means that when one shuts down the others immediately overcharge and then shut down. It can actually shock and destroy the cells. The reason for this is when you have batteries in series to raise the voltage, the first battery in the chain experiences the greatest draw, thus it is the first to discharge, first to recharge, when you get into an extended high load situation like motoring, that battery can overheat causing it to shut down. This is why at times your boat would just straight shut down on you. Also when you put the boat back together, I would strongly recommend building bulkheads that isolate your cockpit lockers from the rest of the boat and then have just a small weep hole to allow water to drain, this is so if you get knocked down and the locker comes open water cannot quickly rush into the boat flooding and sinking her.

[@hanssolo4ever]

You have the old Edson sheaves, check them for play, the new one from Edson has a pin over the sheaves that keeps the wires from jumping out of the sheaves and jamming the sheaves and is of a much better construction. Call them for a price.

[@keyem4504]

Very informative. Thank you. Regarding the battery, I would recommend to use a dedicated 48V battery with only one BMS and maybe a good balancer. This will reduce your problems to a big extended. Cant wait to see things being re-built.

[@MikeBanks2003]

Oh--if you wish to prevent the light dim as a sudden load comes on to your battery system, Use a fairly substantial capacitor across the battery terminals. There is a trap to this one though--a capacitor takes such a sudden surge of current that the battery management system thinks it is being short circuited and cuts the battery off. So I use TWO switches to turn on the capacitor--one is a ten amp switch connecting the capacitor through a 40 watt FILAMENT lamp of whatever voltage your battery is--say 50 volts (most telecom stuff is fifty volts nominal). The other is a 200 Watts mercury switch,. When time to add the capacitor, one switches on the ten amp switch and the bulb lights, then goes out as the capacitor reaches the same charge level as the battery, One then turns on the 200Amp switch, and the capacitor is now connected for high loads and is parallel with your main battery--ready to augment any sudden loads thereon.

[@maarten_notjustagrip]

Great Tech video, thanks. WRT the splitting the storage thing... I think I would only have the essentials, like basic lighting and instrumentation, radios etc on a separate battery. Leave the heavier, non essential loads, like induction cookers and the like, on the main battery. I'd rather eat cold food than have to guess where I am, in the middle of the ocean, without instruments. Just my 2c

[@patrickbernard84]

Awesome content guys!! simplified, Innovative & realistic approach to a awesome project!! I've been watching since the beginning and wondered years ago if we would see Uma renovated!

[@QWTrucker]

Love you guys this episode has a ton of knowledge in just a short period of time thank you to sharing your experience about batteries and electric motors it was awesome to learn from you guys.

[@beakyturbot]

Outstanding. I have never thought having electrics potentially exposed to the elements is a good idea. Similarly, all that ballast being put to good use, rather than being a handicap, seems extremely sensible. Plenty of additional batteries for the truck now as well 🙂

[@RonaldJHElzenga]

Oh man, that was cosy down there😅❤, smelly😅 and lots of wires here wires there. And very interesting overview, your experiences and choices and issues around electric cruising..or hybrid. For me, a project in the still distant future..for now, full-on diesel.😊

[@grumpyjohntxredneckrc6346]

Howdy Y'alls, I'm A Professional In Off Grid Solar Sales+ Installer For 30+ Years Now, I Would Highly Recommend Not Using Those Individual + Higher Costing RV Style Batteries! I've Been Installing Rack Style Lithiums For Years Now! They Come In A Few Great Brands, Butt I Luv The Regular EG4s 48v - 5.12kw Per Battery x 6 Pack Rack = 30.72kws... Simple To Wire, Less Wiring, Breakers + BMSs Are Already On Each 6 Batteries, Plus Are Independent Of Each Other In Pre Buss Bared Rack, Well Made Heavy Duty Metal Cabinet, Cost Today Is Only $8900 w/ Free Rack & Free Shipping Thru Signature Solar... I'm Also A Boat Captain, Own 10-Different 15' Up To 33' Right Now & As Long As These Were Installed In The Living Area - Above Waterlines, I Simply Don't Foresee Any Problems In Using These Rack Style Batteries At All & I'm In Process Right Now Of Converting - Electrifying All My 10-Boats, 2-Jet Skis + A Few Older Cars-Trucks... 😁😎

[@dc1544]

One thing to remember is what is your max draw from battery bank/banks? If its 10kw and you have 1 battery bank with each battery being 100ah that means you will draw 2C to achieve that 10kw. If you have 2 battery banks made of 100ah cells in each battery then each will pull 1C. if you have 4 banks then .5C will be pulled from each bank. Using busbars or Lynx distributors from each bank will divide the load. Its more efficient to have more battery banks even if they are smaller. C rating is how long it takes to drain or charge your batteries in 1 hour per bank. 100ah @ 48 volts means 5kw is 1C. The less the C rating the less heat their will be and less loss of energy and it also means longer life of your batteries. Lithium breaks down faster with higher C ratings. Same as only using 10-90% of the rated capacity helps prolong the life of lithium. if you make 1 large battery bank where every battery is connected via daisy chain then that adds more stress on each battery in that bank. having 4-8 battery banks is much better and means you can distribute the load around the boat better. Then you can use smaller wires which must be equal lengths to the busbar from each location. if you can use 1 location makes it even better since you save on wires. I have 4 14.3kw battery banks which are 280ah cells in each bank. so when I use 10kw each pulls 2500 watts or about .2C max. my wires never even heat up so I do not loose energy to heat loss. I hope this helps explain why to have multiply battery banks is important. Also oversize your inverters and wires. You do not want to run a 5kw inverter at 4kw which is its max continuous load all the time you want to use 25-50% max under normal conditions. Electronics break down faster under higher loads.

[@happyscottman]

Love your videos. It's so great seeing you two cuddling up while you're making this video. True love is very hard to find and it's obvious you two have found it. I'm still trying to talk my wife into getting out there. We've got the true love thing down...I'm just hoping she'll have the same nomadic ocean home living desire I think I'll have.

[@idreecemian2192]

Thank you so much for all your experiences put together of whats and whats not with all the do and don't do information that is well needed out there in the wide expance on the blue. Looking forward for more and more of very educating times to come with you guys

[@jonhansen100]

Being technically challenged in electronics, I am fascinated by the benefits and 0ff-grid independence offered by the electrical systems you're building. However, for me and I assume most average bears, the complexity and technical savvy are mind boggling obstacles.... and all that wiring looks like an explosion in a spaghetti factory to me. I shared this video with a good friend who sells aviation battery systems to fleet aircraft entities worldwide ie; airlines, military etc. He remarked that "LiFePO4 (lithium iron phosphate) are the most popular now and offers energy and power density. More power / weight and more power to volume requirements. Making a lot of things possible." As a lifelong sailor and certified instructor I thought I was a fairly checked-out mariner. Watching all this makes me feel like a hopeless novice. It begs the question, how the hell have humans been sailing the world for millennia without all the current and evolving electronic technology? This is not a negative criticism... indeed I salute you both for your tech savvy and fortitude in all that you do concerning UMA. Fair wind and following seas as you progress.

[@SailingUma]

We could, and can sail without any electronics at all. It's quite easy. But no one would ever see, or hear about it. Because there would be no camera to film it, no computer to edit it. No sat comms to upload it.

[@SkylinersYeti]

I have a couple of travel trailers both with Lithium iron phosphate batteries. One manufacture's BMS is accessible via Bluetooth the other not. The Bluetooth is so nice to monitor each battery.