Beloved Stardust is Hard to Use

[@TheHoosier]

Miriams vsnishing into carian gs into carian piercer is the single coolest thing in elden ring you cant change my mind

[@PierreLucSex]

It's fp version of dodge slash pierce attack, basic halberd, but blue. But, ok, maybe cooler.

[@184Switch]

Hmm, it's good, but have you ever seen someone combo L2 with the Rivers of Blood into L2 with the Rivers of Blood into L2 with the Rivers of Blood into L2 with the Rivers of Blood into L2 with the Rivers of Blood into L2 with the Rivers of Blood into L2 with the Rivers of Blood? That's gameplay.

[@dotisopod]

@@184Switch Lmao my sides are in orbit

[@envoyofrot7046]

That is pretty cool but I think the Miriam's Vanishing into Frenzied Grab is even cooler 🔥

[@hobosorcerer]

Giantsflame into Messmer's Orb into Roar of Rugalea is also nice. You can just toss someone around the floor like a fighting game OTG combo.

[@envoyofrot7046]

I like how the most used, generally best Talismans have no downsides (like Shard of Alexander, Godfrey Icon, Rotten Winged Sword Insignia, Millecents Prothesis etc.) but then FromSoft will make the most niche Talismans and give them debuffs on top (Beloved Stardust, Talisman of all Crucibles)

[@asterodon]

They did the same with the great runes lmao, the most niche one (Malenia's) has a debuff and even aside from that debuff it's buns already.

[@Mr_Murakumo]

Every time I see the Carian Cross combo my mind always “audiolizes” the voice lines like they’re a Street Fighter super move, or a Castlevania big fuckoff move that costs a lot of hearts And it’s always “Carian…” on the Greatsword, and then “…Cross!” on the Piercer

[@DerKommentator1337]

"Tiger..." "Tiger Knee!"

[@GuiriTV]

Honestly I wish Mind contributes to cast speed, like it did with Attunement in DaS2. I guess it makes sense that dexterity would be tied to reflexes, but the spell itself uses intelligence, so why not the more Mind, the fast you can use your BRAIN to cast the spell? It would also give Mind more utility outside just FP...

[@acolddarkgentlebruh8205]

I hate how much shit you have to level just to do damage as a mage, in every damn game..... definitely have to sacrifice more than any other build

[@kubomagico8853]

​@@acolddarkgentlebruh8205 unga bunga build: 99 Strength Mage: 20 Mind, 40 Dexterity, 50 Inteligence

[@gabagandalfoftheweed]

If you don't say it, I'm gonna say it: Password summons need to be absolutely neutered. I frequently invade at Lv. 9 and below. Even though some of their regular attack damage is scaled down, spell and weapon skill damage are not - at least not properly. HP, FP, stamina, defenses and resistances aren't properly scaled back either. Status buildup isn't affected at all. You'll be bled out in 2 straightsword swings. And pretty much everyone rocks a bleed build. That or a caster of some kind. In terms of game balance, this is an absolute mess that is not only detrimental for PvP, but PvE as well.

[@jellofan1578]

This has been a big issue since password phantoms were introduced in ds3

[@gabagandalfoftheweed]

@@jellofan1578 You mean Bloodborne

[@jellofan1578]

@@gabagandalfoftheweed Yes ty

[@bbk3615]

from my experience as a RL5 invader, using all the stuff that give you extra vigor and passive health regen usually helps you survive most OL phantoms that aren't abusing bleed (Reduvias are legit scarier than wave of piss spammers) but yeah i agree, password summons shouldn't be in the game at all. it's just BS.

[@YarnhamBrainsucker]

@@gabagandalfoftheweedin bloodbornes defense, the matchmaking was wack all around since you could invade people at the start of the game with a max upgraded weapon and blood gems, but your point still stands 😂

[@magisterludi4347]

I tried 60 for awhile and that character ended up becoming by far my most min maxxed try hard invasion build in order to compete with the insane damage and defenses of password phantoms. 60 Vigor with cold weapons getting magic damage boosted by both physik slots plus mushroom crown and kindred of rot poison shenanigans. Even with that it's still the toughest range to invade by far.

[@BigHatLoganGaming]

even if stardust only did 15% extra people would still consider it too risky to use. it just needs a buff, especially considering ds3 had saint-tree bellvine

[@pizza-for-mountains]

bellvine demon's scar 😱

[@Paydirt90847]

Nah, Phantom downscaling is just terrible full stop, even at very low levels. Its just an atrocious system. Password summons should be level gated, same as invaders. You have to be a real dork to join your mate at level 10 on a level 500 character, you're playing the game for them at that point and making the invasion experience miserable for anyone who has the misfortune to deal with you.

[@acolddarkgentlebruh8205]

I think is the way Fromsoft want it sadly, and easy mode for casuals essentially, having OP phantoms to tear through the game for you

[@lancehaderlie9587]

Except they made the DLC hard punish all the losers getting carried through the game by their friends. So they are ok with the game not allowing you to be carried sometimes. FromSoft make up your damn mind

[@utopiandystopia1383]

git gud lmao

[@Johnny13utt]

I would say downscaling is bad especially at low level. They retain all their status buildups. You'll just get like double bleed out by a single L1

[@samtoairmissile]

Really feels like the talisman was meant for strength and heavy armor builds, since they wouldn't have any dex to increase their casting speed normally and they'd have some way to offset the damage vulnerability

[@saintriot]

This is a good idea. Might test it out on a higher level build with a lot of strength to offset the defense cost.

[@NA-ke9sl]

I actually assumed it was more for ranged caster builds, and not really designed with PVP in mind.

[@Broax4]

Thats more or an accidental, yet potential, use. Just because the damage increase is what? 30%? A scorpion charm that increases weapons as well as spells has 15% penalty. It doesnt make sense whatsoever.

[@therighttrousers343]

Or Strength and heavy shield builds. Cos I think that's the theory of what you're trading for. Strength gets big shield to wait for a good time to strike, Dex gets the cast speed to cast between strikes, strength with talisman gets big shield to hide behind until time to cast very fast, but gets hit very hard if they mess that up.

[@starslayer8390]

Even so, negative thirty damage negation reduces you to light armor levels of defence. Defeats the entire point of wearing heavy armor.

[@JonsleytheGreat]

I think you'd like blessed blue dew talisman a lot. Really useful on low fp builds, you get so many free sorceries in a decently drawn-out invasion

[@monsieurdorgat6864]

Also Saint - I think that the difference you feel between level 60 is that the phantom is downscaled to the host's level, but you the invader can up your own stats by about 30 (Radagon's Soreseal, Flask, Equipment, etc.) so your own defenses and HP can get upgraded a lot. Because of that, you won't feel the phantom not being downscaled as hard. At level 60, the extra levels you get from equipment and flasks doesn't matter as much, yet phantom downscaling is still shit.

[@Wyllowisp]

Level >30 to level

[@184Switch]

​@@Wyllowispthey do not, no

[@monsieurdorgat6864]

@@Wyllowisp Nah, I meant levels lower than 30 (60)

[@monsieurdorgat6864]

"Science hurts" - ask anybody who's gotten a STEM PhD (me). It hurts.

[@franka76]

That Carian Combo is the best in ER! Dang.

[@rildh]

Man, everytime I manage to get out of ER for a few weeks, one of your vid pulls me right back into it. I don't know if I should thank or hate you for it, but that says a lot at any rate. Great as always !

[@windyharper]

Had to rewatch the beginning a few times just for the soundtrack. Good shit, saint.

[@ColtonGamingTV]

yeah, it is kind of bs if you don't do rya's interaction in Liurnia it completely locks you out of Boggart's quest and the crab/shrimp which is extremely useful when dueling/invading.

[@ChargedStrike]

Glad to see you back on Elden Ring! I miss your podcasts with Rata.

[@sirrealism7300]

Ngl prisoners chain was my goto ring back in the day.

[@HellFlameGod]

Finally someone talking about how all the damage based talismans makes us take more damage! BY THE WAY THAT'S DUMB! Can't combo, or trade hits, if it one-shots regardless of your vigor!

[@IKuzmos]

Perhaps I lack imagination, but I feel like that in a world of bhb's and hyper armor skills, the only reliable caster is the endure into undendurable frenzy guy, or the huge AoE spells

[@James_Rustled]

I’ve played at 60 for a few thousand hours, it is has the highest potential for being hard. The downscaling really stops working at 60, when it definitely did work at 25, but it’s more than that. At 60 you can invade 80 and they can have friends without downscaling at 100ish, or they get the barely working version of downscaling applied to them

[@hobosorcerer]

The biggest thing backhand blades need is some recovery. Sure it'd make them feel less fluid, but it's also make them reasonably punishable... blindspot aside, of course.

[@HighLordWesley]

I usually don't try out KZbinrs builds, but this one i had to. Gotta say if you min/max your armor for the absolute best defense you can get+ the crab, it's actually not too bad.

[@emsharingan8639]

Every double sore seal gamer's dream, all the damage for half of the tailsman slots!

[@VariableLyon]

It should be 15%. At least. Like, both soreseals are 15%. And the talisman of all crucibles should be 30% because that one is justified and no one wants to use that shit currently. That's what i think.

[@randomguy9471]

15% won’t make people use it either. It should increase FP cost by like 30%. That would be a better trade off imo. It’s insane to me how talismans like Millicent’s prosthesis, two hand tali and shard of Alexander exist without downsides.

[@samgraffen9212]

​@@randomguy9471 And for spells we have the faithful/flock canvas for a 4-8% slap in the face. Alex shard gives more than both combined.

[@bobcb6186]

2:27 there's actually no way you brought that bit from the stream to this video

[@Cleptomancer]

it feels like they get max level sailing on their gear even if the base damage is nerfed. The actual stats and scaling doesn't feel nerfed.

[@saintriot]

Yeah, their status effect build up, stamina damage vs shields, stuff like that seems to be untouched. The damage downscaling is real but for some reason at this level range it just seems to not do much.

[@frazfrazfrazfraz]

I feel like the best case scenario for this talisman is as a mix-up option, maybe in sorcerer duels Imagine dual wield staff of loss with night comet at 10 dex, then hotswapping to beloved stardust to catch them by surprise. The larger virtual dex increase creates a bigger time discrepancy between the two. Not having to put on azur's gives you the massive dual wield damage increase, and also gives them less warning How useful that would be, i don't know. I don't really do much pvp. It's just the thought i had. You could also just use it from a raised position after distracting them rancorcall or something, when they aren't really going to be fighting back. Either case, it's always going to be a risky play. That's a lot of extra damage

[@lumiverinightstar228]

I had thought the summon level scale was supposed to always work unless you use a specific method to glitch it and even then I thought they fixed that. I was unaware of this. No matter how high level my main gets, I always would prefer to be statted with the host, I don't like winning by stat advantage like that and I certainly hate contending against it. I'll have to be a bit more careful with this in the future.

[@Vash141]

Stardust wouldn’t be so bad on a faith build if they didn’t nerf Blackflame protection to the ground in PvP at least against physical dmg. -30% is insane

[@Kiviuq1000]

I miss Saints Elden Ring streams. Bring them back please!

[@Shinn_NB]

Level +6 weapons in DS3 was the best way to learn how to invade

[@Psychx_]

"Someone who's had their bones fall out due to radiation or something". Sir, you might want to read the story of Eben Byers and "Radithor"

[@JohnnysGoldenFiddle]

Saint, can you try the staff of the great beyond on your multi-caster? Miriam’s into dragonclaw/inescapable frenzy is so awesome

[@Johnny13utt]

love your summary of rl60

[@Khaliljt]

Yo Saint, I did some testing and the Carian cross is not a consistent combo if you’re up close. It’s more consistent at the tip of the sword

[@Psychx_]

You wouldn't dare combining this talisman with the magic scorpion talisman and Rakshasa armor :P

[@squidknightx3459]

The sequel we've been waiting for

[@donniejules86]

Great video Saint ❤

[@domenthebeast8885]

Were you running this build at RL200? I believe I fought you as my Krauser character (throwing dagger in off hand with dagger in mainhand), If so It was a fun af fight.

[@johndang55]

Would the melee portion of adula’s moon blade combo into carian piercer as well? And how much cast speed you need for the combo, 60 virtual dex or more for example?

[@Lunadherent]

Completely unrelated but do you happen to remember which video of yours were you talking about Slaughterhouse Five?

[@saintriot]

I remember talking about it but no idea which video

[@Lunadherent]

@@saintriot Thanks anyway 🙏

[@Mr_Murakumo]

@@saintriot The closest thing off the top of my head is that DS3 video about Firestorm/ Chaos Storm. I think it was originally a Slaughterhouse Five styled video but it kinda derailed into a rant about how ass garbage Firestorm/ Chaos Storm was in DS3

[@sauro8299]

It was one of the Dark Souls 1 Remastered videos. Possibly the one where he does the Chaos Servant roleplay build, invading in Ariamis and the Demon Ruins.

[@Lunadherent]

@@sauro8299 Found it! It's called "Saint, Lose Your Mind Testing Chaos Storm in Dark Souls 3". Thanks dudes.

[@bulle0823]

This talisman are trash => Even with 0 dex you can obtain max cast speed by using radagon icon and azur staff at the same time Or if you have already 40 dex you can obtain max cast speed by using just radagon icon or just azur staff

[@mordeau7402]

Really good estus punish

[@cooldudeachyut]

It should've been like 50 virtual dex for 10% extra damage.

[@silkenshadow]

This talisman feels like it's better on an incant build, honestly. Azur's + Radagon Icon is too easy to put together for spellcasters

[@TheValiantBob]

I don't know how it would work, but Saint. If you hired someone to design a Carian Cross shirt or poster, I would buy it.

[@Felicificity]

He didn’t come up with it so it’d be kinda in poor taste

[@InMustafar]

I think that those type talismans should affect base defenses instead of total defense, and maybe nerf the benefit a little bit more, idk, like for example Radagon Soreseal is way worse than the prisoner chain, it does the boost but soreseal affects total defenses, and the chain base defenses, like come on, they had the formula before, why not do it again?

[@danw.1250]

Would you say that 60 percent of the time it works every time?

[@HighLordWesley]

Tha you for no longer edging me with this update on low level max cast speed

[@Apexx27]

with the Carian Cross true combo, can you do a fully charged piercer?

[@_g_h_]

No

[@Faminetheblack]

Is there any benefit to this talisman that you wouldn't get if you just used radagons icon???

[@saintriot]

Radagon's Icon gives you 30 virtual dexterity for the purposes of spell casting. The dexterity cap for spell casting is 70. Beloved Stardust gives you maximum casting speed.

[@Faminetheblack]

@@saintriot OHHHH, ok that's not too bad, but that 30 percent penalty might as well just cut your hp in half

[@endlessmars5735]

Kill the Crab Man, nobody will know.

[@saintriot]

His bell bearing will only have crab if he sells it to you and he won't sell it to you if Rya is already at the Manor.

[@Boamere]

Beloved shartdust

[@Broax4]

Has anyone managed to use this crappy talisman in a higher level build? Cause now that I think about it, its even worse at higher levels as 40 dex can be added to int or faith builds without too much hassle.

[@arsarma1808]

Sometimes I wonder how much HP you can just drop for Dex instead and save the slot lol

[@LikeTheBirb]

If youre invading at lvl 60-80 you want 40-45 vigor minimum unless youre some kind of caster gimmick build

[@An_Euco]

@@LikeTheBirb 40-45 vigor when you take 30% extra damage does not mean the same survivability as 40-45 vigor when you don't, which is the point they are making

[@Goobermanguy]

Effective HP: ehp of 40 vig with stardust 1450/1.3 = approx 1125 = ehp with 33vig but no stardust. ehp of 45 vig with stardust 1581/1.3 = 1216 = 35 vig without stardust So the ehp difference is worth about 7-10 levels in dex. Well, the lower max hp + dex option is technically better than "exactly 7-10 levels worth", because having lower max hp is better than taking more damage (since estus heals a flat amount) AND for that reason you don't want stardust and a soreseal because you'll run out of estus so fast; thus you also have to consider the tradeoff of not being able to use the soreseal...

[@Felicificity]

You might be able to make it worthwhile if you paired the lower Vigor with the Ritual Shield Talisman? Because lower max HP means you’re much more likely to fully heal off of any given flask chug. Otherwise though, low Vigor is a hard sell

[@samgraffen9212]

@@Goobermanguy Honestly very close, Prisoner starts with 14 dex, add 10 lvls from vig and 30 from Radagon's, your at 54 virtual dex, with dex tear it's 64. Sacrifice fashion souls for the +5 dex Curseblade mask and have 69. If you use Opaline Tear + Starlight at 45 vig instead, you gain 1 virtual dex and 101 ehp for -20% dmg negation (and 15 lvls of def/res from dex tear/mask). Would loose 135 hp per estus from -20% absorb, Curseblade mask only looses 57, so thp is still way lower using starlight. Also note that dmg vulnerabilities are multiplicative, so starlight + debuff like Frostbite = VERY bad.

[@Ohsnapkline]

Yes, level 60 is for the try hards. I've been here since release, and a lot of decked out tarnished are here, and I'm on PC. I've seen many horrors, so we need Dark Soul's 3 scaling back!

[@hohohoupufuru]

I would tell you to just offhand a softswap azur's staff when casting but it's not your style

[@392Hemi-x3]

Jeez that 30% is not worth it for the average player. Us average and below cant survive that. Whoever runs this want's that combo in a bad way lol Radagon is enough for me even if I cant hit the combo as often. Running as much as fighting cos that 30 is beating the crap out of you. "Insane-OH" for sure. GGWP

[@vanderkarl3927]

I mean, is it hard to use or does it just make everything harder... because it's bad? IDK I'll keep listening but I'm not on board yet

[@MiyazakisPVPexperience]

It's not hard to use, it's hard to justify. Just a filler item with no real purpose

[@thermalshoes]

I don’t blame FS. Low level invaders in stormveil are the scummiest players on earth. And imagine if they all were suddenly given max cast speed with next to no way to do damage to them! I’ll be interested to see level 30 testing

[@saintriot]

Next video is level 40 testing. I misspoke in this video I think. But it's still a huge improvement

[@supernateplays962]

"Beloved Stardust is Hard to Use" Maybe because you clearly don't main spellcasting and don't pvp much

[@Ritten-77]

first guy got, folded, packed up and shipped to the B O N E Z O N E ☠