SaltEMike Rants About Cargo Grids for 20 Minutes

[@0waverunner0]

Cries in carrack....

[@sanctred]

Right there with you…

[@MooneShadow]

😢

[@thomasinlondon2849]

If those side doors opened, how good it "could" be.

[@jaykay5838]

@@thomasinlondon2849 That seems like such a simple solution, i wonder why..why they haven't done that? Even as just a temp bandaid.

[@duramirez]

The reason why I melted mine. 😞

[@Diogenes76]

Now consider this and just imagine how convoluted their code base is after all of the changes over the years.

[@JohnSmith-ue3pt]

i picture about a 5 gallon bucket of ramen noodles

[@123TheCloop]

honestly an "easy" solution to this mess would be to have the freight elevator let you "select" your ship as a template then it gives you SCU boxes that match the grid array so it can then be placed. OR let us pay to have it auto loaded so i dont have to micro manage this stuff, like christ caterpillar is already a*s unloading when its full

[@tallperson117]

Excellent idea. Maybe even have it give you a "suggested configuration" that you could tweak or something. Like, use the engineering UI to show your ship's cargo grid in a sort of "holo-view" where you could select the specific cargo hold you want to load and highlight what spaces in that hold you want to load, then select the type and amount of cargo you want to load, then have the lift auto-assign the cargo to the correct sizes/amounts of boxes and send them up, with your HUD map showing the suggested location for each individual box when you pick it up. Obviously this would likely take a year and 10 reworks, but it would help a lot.

[@jacktyler58]

I hope CIG sees this thread.

[@TheEVEInspiration]

I always expected a storage manager for the cargo, but the manual loading obsession got in the way. Lots of developer hours are getting burned on this one aspect of the game alone I think.

[@fathead8933]

they could have just left the system the way it was and made the manual loading an OPTION.

[@bibbler1234]

Just drop manual cargo - CIG has so many loops to work on other than this.

[@Len-eo2ln]

Biggest issue that should not even exist is the size of cargo doors on certain ships, not even big enough to fill the bay.

[@ThatCK]

If anything thats the only controlled thing they do have, I think they limit them to limit what vehicles fit on ships. Specifically can you fit an Ursa on it

[@Len-eo2ln]

@ThatCK Recently watched a video on the Zeus and how awkward it is to use the cargo grid and load it due to an undersized door. When you start calculating revenue per hour certain ships just don't make sense due to loading times.

[@brianchristopher8843]

I was using the zues to move refined materials to market last night and I had enough to mostly fill it up and the refinery placed the largest box so that it blocked the ramp and was impossible to take off with out running around and up the ladder to play extreme tetris shuffle on the front side of the cargo hold. Took about 40 minutes of trial and error to get enough room to get that first box through the ramp entrance.

[@critic_empower_joke_rlaxtslife]

​@@ThatCKmarketing bullshit artists at play on those solutions.

[@The_Real_bubbazaneti]

Yep and the latest fuckup is the Zeus CL, cause CIG does this cause of preventing players to for example squeeze in an URSA, cause of marketing ang greed to sell bigger ships! So once again, they dont give a shit about player base, and players that do the cargo loop. Same old story with CIG!

[@inter_estelar]

Sorry Mike. If it was not year 13, I would agree with you. But you can't say they dont know. The future is full of reworks. The list still grows. They have to be accountable for their mistakes.

[@0waverunner0]

@@inter_estelar this

[@gregshields8686]

Exactly. Why even bother with it at all at this point. It’s not even fun anymore. Just sit around in QT just to explode to some dum shit and have to take another 45 minutes just to get back to what I was doing? Peace

[@LuminairPrime]

I agree, this guy is such a white knight

[@scotttimbrell8632]

It's still in active development though? Things will be reworked constantly because that's what development means. Cargo and ships haven't been worked on for 12 years.

[@gregshields8686]

@@scotttimbrell8632 I think that’s the point. They come up with ideas, then change their mind because they think it will be better, then change their minds again and never really settle on anything

[@SkintAlot]

The Zeus CL is horrible. When the refinery auto loads the Zeus and i experienced this last night twice. I literally could not pull the boxes out from the zeus because they all seemed locked in by other boxes and the angled sides of the entrance. Took me forever to get them out. EDIT oh you showed someone experiencing exactly what i did yesterday.

[@brianchristopher8843]

Fucking hilarious I just commented the same exact thing.

[@IrisCorven]

This seems like a recent issue, too. I remember NEVER having issues removing boxes between other boxes, in 3.22. I took a break after 3.23 launch, came back for this 3.24 cycle, and now it's like pulling teeth to get a box out from between others.

[@Astelch]

Yep. I had that happen to me and I literally quit the game for the night. Zeus cl is not a cargo hauler I rather save the money and keep the c1 which has a near 64 scus of no bs

[@MayuFuji]

Just let us pick what shape of box we get out from the cargo elevator, it would help a lot

[@Entar0]

Even better, if our multi-tool could change boxes. If we could deconstruct a 32 SCU container into 32 1 SCU containers, or any variation thereof.

[@dicegamer3466]

They needed feedback to know that ceilings need to be high enough to maneuver the boxes into place? They should have been able to realize that themselves.

[@BizzMRK]

CIG never thinks past how things look. They always exclusively followed the ethos of form over function and the rule of cool.

[@iamcll]

Yeah i disagre with him here, I was saying this would become an issue 8 years ago, Based off how people said cargo would be.

[@0hwenWilsonsNose]

Please get your logic and level-headed thinking out of here. It has no place in Star Citizen

[@StoneCoolds]

Or at least that cargo should fit through the door lol

[@mcbrite]

Literally nobody at CIG plays their garbage... If they did, it wouldn't be this garbage...

[@dicegamer3466]

This is what happens when you design ships before you develop gameplay mechanics. But, since their funding model depends on ship sales, this will continue.

[@123TheCloop]

lmfao literally, 99% of this could have been solved if they actually did this BEFORE designing ships so it could then be used with it in mind

[@lunasakara7306]

It really isn't helping that CIG also go so far out of their way to prevent small-medium ships from carrying an Ursa sized vehicle by crunching the loading ramp like this. There's more than enough room to fit an Ursa inside several smaller ships; but CIG can't allow that, so they narrow down the ramps so it can't fit in the door... creating exactly this problem.

[@StoneCoolds]

Right and wrong at the same time, the Zeus is brand new, yet they didn't even manage to understand cargo boxes needed to fit through the door?

[@Astelch]

I literally ccud my Zeus to a starlancer max for the cargo problem. Yea the ship looks and flies great but I was literally pulling my hair out on every load/unload. I even question why am I doing cargo missions on it. One thing I know is ironclad will the the cargo grid dream. I can imagine them boxes stacked up nicely

[@BernhardMarchhart]

It is solvable, they need a rework. The realy Bad thing is the Zeus can hold left and right 32 SCU offgrid and it's a thing of centimeters that you could fit 2 x 32 SCU in the middle. Widening the ship slightly and 128 will fit in 32Scu container and the door and ceiling will not interfere.

[@frogger2011ify]

@@BernhardMarchhart they burn 100+ mil a year....were is the money for a rework

[@Kyle-sr6jm]

Yea, but the ship wasn't designed for use, it was designed to not exceed a set of parameters. (Cargo grid, so it doesn't compete against larger ships. Doorway so it doesn't carry an ursa)

[@Power5]

Yup, said same thing from day 1 seeing Zeus reviews. Make ship .5m wider and .5m taller. Also make the cargo porch steps like the ES and the cargo grid does not need to be so close to the rear door making it easier as well.

[@milluone]

This video speaks directly from my soul. Coming back to 3.24, excited for the cargo gameplay only to end up hating it, was the biggest let down this year for me.

[@Hawkoutdoors]

I bought the ccu Zeus thinking it was going to be 4x32 then when watching the production of it I was like shit...

[@wun1gee]

It should have been at least 6 SCU wide. Making it 5 SCU wide was dumb. When they sold us the ship they said "If you fill the cargo grid you won't be able to access components." and that was a sacrifice most of us were willing to make. Then they said "Yeah? Fuck it we just won't move the grids out that far and we'll mess up the whole grid so you have component access that you already agreed you didn't need.." and now we have a weird, fucked up grid. Also the tractor beam is hilariously bad at moving 32 SCU boxes around. It defaults to center of mass and it makes it ridiculously hard to maneuver 32 SCU boxes..

[@Hawkoutdoors]

Oh don't me get me started on the back door.

[@toberkulosis]

The Zeus' ramp was made smaller specifically so you could not fit specific vehicles in it, which is why it ends up being bad for cargo as well because you need to be able to squeeze those in and out too. The simple solution is when the team whiteboxes the ships, they need to include the cargo in their white box so they know how many 16 or 32 boxes will actually fit before they just make a cargo grid.

[@fathead8933]

They need to nerf the nursas. its game breaking on like 7 different levels. I would say they atleast need to make the med bed ships and vehicles 5mil auec with no insurance. The planets and stations need to be the only respawn points. Especially if the med bed is set as a spawn point and destroyed, CIG has to spend resources recovering accounts. Raising the price and removing insurance would also bring trust back to the Med game. You would know that if you saw a C8R or a cutty red, they were actually there to help because no one is throwing away 5 mil to troll or to take 50k in armor and guns. Some of these ships with their military/government background should be harder to acquire and keep. I think we need a system that whoever fires first in uncontracted combat loses their ship insurance for "Breach of Policy" by engaging in combat. We're individual companies not nations. Companies lose insurance in war. This could also bring a new dynamic to cargo hauling: uninsured zones with like 10x profit. High risk, high reward. I know a little divergent from your comment but the crux of the problem lays at the nursa. People want to take it everywhere and CIG doesn't want them to, so they've created the ships to prevent that hindering cargo loading. It all goes to the nursa.

[@DeadWayfes]

​@@fathead8933 just make it so the ships have a cap in how much revives you get. A med ursa and c8r only have 1 or 2 respawns before needing a refil. You add the need of ressources for medical gameplay and healing consumes the ressource too. So if you healed a tier 1 or 2 injury you can not respawn in the small ursa unless you refill. But oh well its hard for them to do actual basic decisions

[@jono9721]

The fun part is that they did, if you google Zeus cargo grid white box you can see an image from Jump Point of it. The grid has changed since white box and in the same image the ramp is ~4scu wide, so it does look like they shrunk it to purposefully limit vehicles. They oversold it without thinking much about how it would be used, it would have been better as a 3x32scu container ship, like a better C1, but with cargo grid the whole way across.

[@fathead8933]

@@DeadWayfes not gonna lie I dig the refuel idea but I still think we have a nice tier system going on, we just need the next step. And a reason for the medics. If you can just call out your own mobile medic, what’s the point of the gameloop? That’s just the med play side. It breaks cargo for the above reasons. However, it’s in game, so I resolve that we get a med bed container. Could make every ship a rescue ship, provide the people terrified of interaction in a video game a way to heal, and would make the nursa issue less an issue. Especially if they sold the container on the pledge store first so people don’t complain.

[@DeadWayfes]

@@fathead8933 yeah the medic system is decent but the ability for infinite respawns is just too arcade. The whole idea would be to manage your ressources. And for the small med scu box, why not have it so it can revive 1 or 2 people before a refil? Main problem is you can have 5 ursas spread around and have a 5 man team with infinite spawns. That is very very gamey and shit. Not to mention good luck finding the ursas while you fly. And they could have a 16scu box or few 2scu boxes with gear so they can re equip infinitely. That is how orgs tend to do their recon teams, i hava done it and seen it done. Takes the fun away from the more realistic game. Just revive re equip and you are good....

[@JLBlazer86]

I would much prefer all floor space on every ship to be "grid", then cap the capacity by mass. We know it is intended for mass to affect flight. Simply make too much mass on the grids make it difficult or impossible to fly, and remove the arbitrary volume limitations.

[@farfouine87]

It would require some basic physics, but in year 12, ships have no mass and behave like empty paper bags.

[@Kyle-sr6jm]

It wouldn't even have to be a flight mechanic, just have the ship not start if the loaded mass is too high.

[@Power5]

Yeah I did the math on that the other day. A Caterpillar can be loaded with 576 SCU of Gold. That would weigh something like 11,000 Tons. Caterpillar weighs 1800 Tons. Not a chance the Cat could even support the weight let alone fly to space with that. SpaceX can theoretically take 250 Tons with starship. Each SCU of Gold should weigh 19 Tons.

[@JLBlazer86]

​@@Power5, I think it would be cool if the Cat could transport it around space, and even heave it around moons, but when they approached a planet with decent gravity, the mass calculations kick in and ya turn into a brick. Would require more strategizing of what you bring where. I would love that gameplay, personally.

[@Power5]

@@JLBlazer86 mass definitely matters in space as well. You would be able to move in space but it would accelerate at 1/10th the rate as an empty CAT. Stopping and turning would be the same issue. If the cargo grid has gravity the floor would be crushed by the weight as well. So would need to add weight to Cat to be able to support a bay full of gold. A Hull C full of gold would weigh nearly what grim hex landing zone weighs. 🤣

[@MooneShadow]

I have no issue with the MSR 😅 Zeus rear cargo door should have been wider. But then you'd be able to get an Ursa in, and I believe they are avoiding this. Cargo wise at the medium cargo MSR shines right now. Secret compartment i put storage box for bunkers. Or loot

[@dicegamer3466]

It’s very strange that they chose to restrict the Zeus’s access to the URSA, and that this was such a priority to them that they were willing to undermine The CL’s core function in order to accomplish this.

[@IrisCorven]

@@dicegamer3466 More confusing is why they didn't just make the door wide enough for an Ursa, but not TALL enough. 32 SCU containers are 2.5m tall. The Ursa is 3.5m tall. That extra meter would have made all the difference, even if you only utilized some of it for clearance.

[@Astelch]

Can’t have the Zeus bring in an ursa would ruin profits for medical ships. The lies of proudly advertising the scu size and giving us this monstrosity.

[@Civilunit]

When I saw the actual cargo grid of the Zues CL I knew right there, I was out. Then you got ships like the corsair which you can easily stuff 3 32 scu boxes side to side on that nice wide cargo bay and that angled door can hold a bit more in some change without using the grid at all. Stacking boxes gets real old real fast.

[@senn4237]

After doing a few hauling missions with the Zeus CL I am done with it. it will be melted for something else at IAE.

[@Power5]

Yup, I was going to get a CL but after seeing the first review of it, I was out.

[@Astelch]

I ran some hauling missions and stopped hopped on my c2 and never looked back. Once the starlancer max got announced decided to ditch my Zeus for it. Starlancer although not the best layout the height clearance looks plentiful and the layout is actually good; not great As c2 but tolerable

[@Civilunit]

@@Astelch Yeah, I also think the cargo arrangement will work out pretty well. It's a bummer it does not have at least a rear tractor but it seems perfect for the atlas suit, you have pretty good line of sight it seems from the side of the ships when the middle cargo bay lowers and the ramp does not seem too high and has enough wiggle room to easily shift things around. have to try it out if it releases at the end of this month.

[@Bosun221]

You can blame the artists. Tell them they're bad. They are. They could, for five minutes, think about what cargo loading looks like on any real example, to understand how to build for it.

[@DAVIDM-jz3fw]

Alot of these ships where built before the knew what cargo was going to be

[@woogle463]

@@DAVIDM-jz3fw No excuse for the Zeus tho

[@DAVIDM-jz3fw]

@@woogle463 agreed

[@DAVIDM-jz3fw]

@woogle463 but to be honest I know nothing about the ship

[@kevinscales]

It really shouldn't be their job to figure that out, they should be told by designers. Or if it is their job to figure that out, they clearly weren't told that it's their job.

[@Casey093]

It's so sad that CIG do not test their own game, and when players give them negative feedback, they just ban them on spectrum.

[@b5fan504]

The Mario Maker comparison is spot-on.

[@TRN_SeaHag]

I hate that the missions dont recover after a crash, that is singlehandedly the worst thing right now with hauling. I dont care about the grid, just dont make me unload my useless cargo after it crashes, so sick of it...

[@OmnipotentJC]

This is so damn annoying when I'm in the middle of a 7 mission delivery chain.

[@Gofr5]

Had that happen to me earlier this week. Spent like 20 min loading up my C1 with 5 cargo delivery missions worth of 1 SCU boxes. Soon as I finished loading them all up, 30k'ed. Did recover, but the missions were abandoned and now I have like 60+ SCU of 1 SCU boxes in my C1 that I REALLY don't feel like dealing with.

[@OldManGamin_OMG]

@@Gofr5 take it to cru-l5 and sell it

[@Neif181]

​@@OldManGamin_OMG for most materials its not worth the time

[@RosscoAW]

Mike is absolutely correct: if a ship is designed primarily as a cargo ship, and that's going to be the buyers expectation, then if it says 128 SCU it needs to be able to fit 4x 32 SCU crates, or at least a similar combination of only 16 SCU crates. No mixing-and-matching of cargo box types (unless there's a secondary or tertiary cargo grid for shit like spare components or refinery storage or other "non-cargo primary" grids) on cargo grids intended primarily/solely for cargo hauling.

[@KiithnarasAshaa]

Players: Hey, you have these grids that are nice and neat, but you've got all these others that are a nightmare to use. CIG: So you're saying we need to mangle the nice grids...

[@kokiklv]

And this is why Galaxy spoke to me, not the base building module, the ease of loading it with ONLY 32 SCU boxes.

[@SentinelxPrime]

Autoload would be great IF it only costs money. But they also made it cost time. If i have to pay money then wait around for 10 minutes then I am still not enjoying my time playing the game.

[@IrisCorven]

I'd rather pay a little extra and it be instant.

[@tiersei]

This is why I've been so confused at all the people praising the zeus design as what they need to do going forward...meanwhile I'm looking at that cargo grid and its access point just shaking my head....

[@Fopserr]

Suppose the Cargo Grid is the one thing they might ignore while praising everything else it seems to do well, for better or for worse

[@TheEVEInspiration]

The ES does not have a problem it looks like. The variants are more of an after-thought I think and did not fit the shape of the ship as much.

[@zweasdawd]

the ES is amazing compared to the CL

[@bwdufferco]

I completely agree. I personally wouldn't even mind smaller box sizes being stacked on top if they at least gave us the clearance to comfortably move them into that space. I'm fine with a grid that fits 5scu high like the Zues, but ONLY if there's 2-3 feet of extra clearance where there needs to be.

[@IrisCorven]

This. That extra foot/two of clearance so you can angle a box in, or pull it out without it snagging would make EVERY cargo grid better. Whoever keeps designing shit with literally NO clearance past the SCU measurements needs to be put in a different department, like weapon ballistics or something.

[@justinn5357]

It’s literally not fun gameplay in almost any way. At no point am I smiling, thrilled, or engaged in any way other than maybe earn some money. The quantum doesn’t do it any service either constantly beaming from place to place, it’s just all so bleh.

[@Christfollower89]

It was implemented terribly. If it was added in a way that made since, then it would be great. Unfortunately the Devs are clueless to how logistics works with aircraft. The company picking up the cargo has everything palletized to make movement safe and easy to move in bulk. It's not like shipping containers on cargo ships. It should be based on 747's, C-17's and C-5's; not maritime shipping port operations. That only works for the MISC Hull Series We should be able to pre-program pallets with boxes to move as a whole to the ship. It shouldn't require us to individually move boxes one at a time. I want to use hover dollys or a forklift and load entire pallets into the ship. The pallets should come up the lift pre-loaded and we should be able to organize them using the cargo console to load them to our needs

[@foulwin9719]

​@@Christfollower89The chuckleheads at cig can't get elevators working. You ever think they're going to do something as convenient and reasonable as preload pallets? No, that will never happen.

[@fathead8933]

@@Christfollower89 this. i even said it in another comment thread on this video. No cargo ship or plane captain is loading their own loads. Most truckers dont either. This shows a significant lack of interaction with the trades they are attempting to emulate. We got screwed because they wanted a knockoff alien mech.

[@Christfollower89]

@@fathead8933 Yep, no shipping company is loading their own cargo. Cargo was a fun gameplay loop before this update. This ruined that experience. I'm perfectly fine with short auto load times so I can actually play the game. If it were done the right way, we would be moving palletized loads (hover trolleys) with multiple cargo boxes. Being in the Army in a Chinook unit, I've dealt with moving cargo a lot as a crewmember. It doesn't take all day to load up an aircraft like it does with star citizen. This is the future with magical snap in place technology. In the real world, we are using traditional cargo straps, Aircraft Cargo Tie-downs and chains to strap down loads which takes more time. Either way we can load or unload it quicker than loading in SC.

[@fathead8933]

@@Christfollower89 I’ve loaded soooooo many pallets. I was the private they sent to palletization. So guess who got the job? Every NCO I’ve ever had on that detail I had to explain that the crew chief or loadmaster would want to make sure the load is right before we attached the side straps. Not once was I believed and the crew chief and loadmaster denied it and so we had to break it back down and rebuild it because he didn’t see it built, EVERYTIME. Guys tried to treat an internal loading like a sling load. But notice in that I didn’t once say he built it. 11B. 25ID

[@albinobluesheep]

the "there's no room around it so I can't move it" bug exists with EVERYTHING you put in the Mustang Alpha, its so pixel perfect it takes fidgeting with every box to get it in or out.

[@maximusf3063]

The freelancer MAX is absolutely fucked for cargo. On one side there is an invisible barrier, you can't walk by it and if you are placing cargo off by 1 pixel it wont fit. Also the turret in the back blocks anything from going on top of a 2SCU high crate. It's so bad.

[@slaegar9232]

1:08 reclaimer is just pure pain

[@Legendary_Tales]

Hey Mike. Great videos. Thanks! Regarding the cargo loading, your video only refers to the assigned cargo grid. One can move the cargo OFF the grid and place it securely. It's not snapped to the grid but, "if it fits, it ships." I have personally loaded 140 SCU into my Zeus MKII CL, for example. Standard capacity is 128 SCU. Just lookin' out.

[@TheAIKnowledgeHub]

On top of this. You should be able to buy 32 scu boxes and put mission boxes in it

[@idn]

The easy, quick fix is to make a buffer zone around the cargo grid where it can cheat the physics engine and bleed through object a bit to let us perform actions. That gives CIG time to refine and properly fix. MVP vs polished product.

[@sleepfishl]

The Zeus would be soooo much less frustrating to load if there was only a tiny bit more space to move stuff.

[@kagami3k]

I think they made the ES as the "main" ship, and the CL was an afterthought just pushing the standard cargo bay of the ES a bit wider to have more space for the heck of it and have the extra 96SCU somehow...

[@whatasaverl6456]

This a follow up from the other day. I do find Cargo grids very annoying on most ships

[@bytejump]

While we definitely have problems with the cargo grid layout of many ships, something important I did not see discussed was the difference between a bulk cargo ship (e.g., the container ship you showed) and a break-bulk cargo ship. The bulk ship takes a crap ton of boxes from one location to another, while a break-bulk carrier has numerous deliveries' worth of boxes, usually in various sizes and layouts, to haul. The Hull C would be an example of a bulk ship, while the Caterpillar would be an example of a break-bulk ship. There are different use cases, which seems like an important point.

[@stefanpwinc]

I want to move a few boxes around, test how quickly and efficiently I can do it... but the sizes should be sensible, and not make it more work than it needs to be so it turns to drudgery. Now, for the Catterpillar, they could just *remove* some of those extra side slots, just make it all 16s and 24s. That would drop it to 432 SCU, but at least you wouldn't feel like you're neglectful for not filling those little side slots. That they made the Zeus CL so jam-packed is baffling, maybe they promised the 128 number, but didn't think through actually unloading it... Maybe they should just forget the top row, and make it 3x32 SCU for 96 SCU. Then the center box could slide out that narrow door easily, leaving room for the other two to slide sideways.

[@jamescossey6372]

The c2 does have issues. Especially with 16 scu and larger in the back left and right top areas. If it's the share squares it will be hard to get them in place. The boxes with the cut corners are easier but still an issue at times

[@WarlockSRB]

Current 1 SCU is 1.25m qube, make them a bit smaller, like 1m and you will solve a lot of problems TBH... 3 SCU tall is 3.75m, so with change to 1m on all sides, it'll be 3m, where one would have 75cm (or 2+ft) more space to work with... And simply make box that is affected by tractor beam without collider (and see through) for easier manipulation, so that one doesn't need to aim at 0.0001 mm of gap in order to get something in/out... Simplest solution...

[@drinksanddice6428]

Shrinking boxes to 1m sounds great, but would probably take CIG a full year to do...

[@NephritduGrey]

Given that space units (unless the conversions for US astronauts) have been metric, which has a pretty uniform conversion of units, since the "Alabama Natives" came into NASA, it's a miracle in why 1 SCU isn't one cubic meter in Star Citizen to begin with. Especially since the changes to the Cargo "experience".

[@WarlockSRB]

@@NephritduGrey for some reason 1SCU box is 1.25m qube, why? Only CIG knows 😂

[@WarlockSRB]

@@drinksanddice6428 most effective, and easiest to implement would be boxes under tractor beam have no collider, so one can manipulate whith them easy adn without a problem... But then CR will say, it is not immersive...

[@NephritduGrey]

@@WarlockSRB I mean they could call it interphasing like in Star Trek. It is Sci-Fi after all.

[@namaikikitsune]

If you look at the white box for the Zeus MR that shows the cyclone in the bay, Im fairly positive the ramp opening was initially intended to be wider but was narrowed for reasons I wont speculate on...

[@KiithnarasAshaa]

We also didnt make physicalized cargo off of the 1 SCU cargo standard. I know there are some players who really like shifting boxes, but I cannot imagine anyone thinking it is enjoyable or a good use of their time to shift nearly 700 boxes by hand for a single cargo run.

[@fathead8933]

ive been saying this since they removed the old system for the knockoff aliens mech. NO cargo ship captain or crew loads their own ship. NO cargo pilot loads his own aircraft. 99 percent of truckers just pick up a new trailer at the distribution center. Someone needs to fire the guy that came from job simulator or bare minimum STOP accepting his advice.

[@FoxVelox222]

What they could do is not make the cargo missions all the biggest possible boxes for a mission. Example: 83 scu is 10x 8 scu, 1x 2scu, 1x 1 scu. They call that medium but no medium cargo ship can carry that since even ships like the msr, zues, max can't hold 10x 8 scu and their cargo capacity is over 100. Basically meaning you can't do a medium cargo mission with a medium cargo ship.

[@IrisCorven]

Just give us the cargo in one big batch in the elevator, and let us "split" that batch into specific sizes before we send it up. Shit is ridiculous. It's a UI adjustment that could make a WORLD of difference for cargo runners.

[@BigBobBlazer]

Pointing to the Zeus ES and saying it's a better cargo ship than the CL, I don't understand. The ES, you just throw in two s16 cargo boxes and your done, I get it. But you can just toss two size 32 boxes in the CL and be done as well, same amount of moves, still twice the cargo. I get that the CL's grid needs tweaking, but the ES is not a better cargo ship lol. And the Zeus CL is a smaller ship than the Spirit C1 yet it can technically hold twice the cargo. But the caveat is that you have to cram it all in. Idk, it doesn't bother me too much although it would have been nice to just throw 4 s32 boxes in there and call it a day.

[@Joehockey1990]

As somebody who hasn't played since Crusader released, but loosely follows the development, this is nuts. I can't imagine how something like this got through. When you see the comparison between the Zeus ES and CL, I can't come up with any reason that the Cargo variant would be more of a headache than the non-cargo variant. Unless you want to bang your head against the wall, you basically bought a CL with 64scu.

[@Power5]

Biggest problem is that they made a door on the Zeus that was purposefully small to limit what vehicles could be loaded. Look at any hauling vehicle today. The door is almost always the same size as the cargo area. They do not force you to bring stuff inside the cargo hold before you can stack it on top. Our shipping department loads semi trucks with pallets stacked to max height before entering into the trailer. Stack to 104" on forklift and drive straight into the trailer. That is also why almost all cargo loading into semi trucks is done from a dock height warehouse door. You do not use a ramp as that would limit your stack height.

[@Strasak--]

As for the Raft I will say with this current patch (3.24.2) they made it harder to load boxes onto it. The boxes keep colliding against each other and the crane arms all the time to where you can't put a box into an empty spot. In the pervious patch (3.24.1) it wasn't that way. It was super easy to move the boxes around to get them into place. Not sure what happened to cause this. If they changed something on the Raft and / or the boxes collision. I'd love to see them get the cranes working as well. Project a warning area light down to the ground like how the C1's ramp does. It will show where to stack the boxes to be loaded and where of course the loaded boxes will hit the ground. When picking up from the ground make that warning area light a cargo grid. If they made the cranes operable it would make the Raft super fast to load & unload which would offset the con of it being only able to carry the 96 SCU. Good ol' drop & hooks!

[@Monteladdie]

The Zeus mk2 CL was THE ship i was waiting for. My god, i wanted this bad! It was to be my hauler that I vould use by myself or bring a friend along, but man that cargo grid.. this ship will now be an LTI token for something else.

[@TheEVEInspiration]

Zeus ES (32 SCU real) is not better at cargo than the CL (64 SCU real) and has a tractor beam. The CL is not a true 128 SCU ship. They could make it 96 SCU (real) with some minimal grid replacement I think.

[@R4x8]

They are doing the reclaimer a disservice. You can easily fit 1600+ SCU in it (to be fair, not on the grid). You first snap as much to the grid as possible. Then after that, there is a 100 entity limit before boxes start to despawn. That 100 entity limit does not apply to boxes snapped to the grid, so you can probably get around 2k SCU. Full disclosure - I lost my reclaimer to the 3.23 patch, so it may have changed since then, but that's how it used to be. Applying that methodology, a properly loaded C2 can carry upwards of 900 SCU. M2 you can get in around 700. A2, around 400.

[@Legolas936]

Yup! I do that too, and use the hold below it as a vehicle bay, and then the lowest hold for random smaller containers that I might loot

[@thomasmitchell4155]

I totally agree that cargo grids are a bit wacky in some of the ships and there need to be a system in place to allow for minor adjustments to mission cargo so that it fit into available grid space because my current pain is using a Zeus CL and finding that my 106 SCU mission gives me 13 x 8 SCU containers and a 2 SCU.

[@GetShifty_Vette]

Main reason I traded the Zeus CL in. After seeing good reviews on it without much cargo gameplay, I picked up the CL, but loading it is such an immense pain based on the boxes they give you for hauling missions that I spent the extra just for a trade up to the Taurus. Also, after seeing the 13:35 clip, I feel like they specifically made the door smaller in order to "nerf" the CL from being able to carry the Nursa (I know the wheels can be taken off and moved in, but that's terrible lol), while not thinking about how it would effect the cargo gameplay.

[@Kessra]

The worst part IMO is, that you accept an early hauling missions to deliver like 93 SCU of cargo to somewhre and you literally can't do that in one run with most mid-sized haulers that have 114-128 CU worth of cargo space. I.e. Take the Freelancer Max as example. You can't even get boxes into the middle compartment and you also can only put like a 4 SCU box on top of an 8 SCU one. So you can't stack those 11-13 SCU containers effectively at all. For hauling missions the C2 is therefore my go-to ship, especially when you chain like 27+ missions for 3 nearby planetary locations. Saddly though, with like 50+ containers spawened, the game has the tendency to despawn some for performance reasons even though you're alone in your private hangar. And even more annoying than that is, when you move a box, hit an other one on the cargo grid and that other box then flights straight through ship and hangar mesh and is forever gone. And don't get me started with loading such freight containers in first place. More often than not I didn't even receive all containers and the rest was just ... gone. Any IC tickets I created literally got no upvotes, no comments or anything on that matter and as such, even though I provided plenty of proof and was even able to reproduce that behavior like 3-4 times now, the issue got archived and thus is not considered as a bug or issue at all. As such, I don't partake in IC further. It's just a waste of time IMO. I'd say the problem, especially with hauling missions, currently is that they give you some boxes and they expect that same boxes in size and number to be shipped to a particular location. If you accept multiple missions you might come across a case where you need to ship 5 SCU of tin to location A, 9 SCU of tin to location B and 5 SCU + 8 SCU of tin to location C and if you didn't load those containers beforehand per mission, which takes quite some time depending on the number of missions you accepted, you will have to later probe all of those boxes whether the target location accepts those. That is stupid, time-wasting and pretty much inefficient. Pair that with like 13 times 8 SCU containres which won't fit into most medium ships and you just get angry at those hauling missions. A rework here is needed on both, ship grids as well as missions to be more relaxed in the way they accept boxes, i.e. similar to when you abandon a hauling mission and then are given the option to turn those boxes in pretty much any combination that yields the origin amount. In all honesty, I hope CIG though get rid of those predefined conatiners and instead just show the SCU worth of item X we have and allow us to chose the size and number of boxes we want to check out. This way we could max out the cargo space on our ships on our own. Experience with given ships allows us to easily know that we can fit 2x 32 SCU, 2x 8 SCU, 10x 4 SCU and like 8x 1 SCU on a Max i.e. and as such order containers.

[@MrGruug]

Last night on PU four of us thought we would do a cargo mission in my friend’s Carrack. We started out with my fiend being unable to call the ship on Lorville. His hangar never would show up. He went to Everus and was able to call it there. He then came back to Lorville and picked us up. He got a mission from Everus (pick up). We went there, landed and called the cargo up. As we went to get the cargo loaded we could not get the cargo to snap to the grid. Ok? We then had the hangar doors open and suddenly we were going down the ship lift. Cargo that had been just outside the Carrack disappeared as we went down. It then came back up with the Carrack still on the lift. Trying to make the best of it, we continued to load. We had a couple more boxes sitting on the lift outside the Carrack. Suddenly, the lift starts down again and charge on lift disappeared. So, grids not working and hangars foo bar. We gave up. We have not been able to play in three weeks.

[@essentialasa]

We should have a way to move contents in and out of containers so we can load as needed. Give us access to all size boxes. Connect hangars to the cargo center. Allow us to change the packaging to fit what fits our ship. Cargo grid reported sizes should be based on how many of their largest box size they can hold. Everything else should be treated as extra. Nomad = 8SCU x 1 Caterpillar = 24SCU x 8 Zeus ES = 16SCU x 2 Reclaimer = 16SCU x 10 etc... If you can squeeze boxes around that, it's considered extra

[@Parzival117]

The Atlas needs a manual mode for the tractor beam. It couldn't grab the crates in the video because it has pre-set movement for grabbing cargo and if there is anything blocking that pre-set movement it won't work making it only useful in large ships with giant cargo space and most importantly doors that aren't smaller than the cargo area.

[@TheKrumstuff]

The reclaimers biggest issue is not even the cargo grid. It's the unloading of boxes after getting a big haul. Especially with base building coming in. It's salvage processing area needs a rework to have a bigger door to allow unloading 16 scu crates easier. They fixed the little door but the 16 scu crates don't fit through it without spending minutes getting it to squeeze through. I really hope it's not going to take 2 more years for the reclaimer to get a revisit. It's my favorite ship and salvage is my thing. I don't mind loading cargo onto a freight elevator but moving the 16 scu crates out of that ship is way to tedious.

[@yosephtaha7218]

A good way to get around all these issues is to have a “half snap” function that allows you to fix smaller boxes on top of larger ones (e.g. 4 x 1 SCU boxes on top of an 8 SCU box) while outside the cargo grid. This would allow you to load an 8SCU box with the 4x 1SCU as a single box. And to limit stupid stacking, the function would only work with a layer up to half the height of the layer below. I’ll accept payment in ship hulls, CIG 😉

[@BadlyEquivalent]

The reclaimer also has unused storage space that’s labeled SPECIFICALLY as storage space and can fit 1 SCU boxes. If the elevator doors were bigger to work with on the reclaimer I don’t think I’d have as many issues

[@Ocmersh]

The "legos" and boxes of different sizes exist as LTL freight in modern day cargo. Though it is a smaller compared to FTL which all uses standard pallet sizes (FTL are the common "semi-truck" that you see on U.S. highways). So I see something like the Taurus and up as FTL and anything smaller than that as potentially LTL. Once you get to ships you typically only use TEUs, standardized containers.

[@criticalchai]

completely agree. Zeus made no sense. it is barely a 72 SCU cargo ship. 2 32 boxes and 8 on the sides. any more and it is a nightmare and can get stuck. I push push everything right when loading so I can get to controls and walk back to door. I really wish they had a white box PTU so we could just try to get to guns or load cargo or just do the basic stuff before they even try developing it more. A lot of these issues could have been figured out earlier. The cargo ships should be able to easily load standard large cargo boxes without having to fight the width of a doorway. Or make exploration ships that cant fit an ursa or make a smaller enclosed vehicle for exploration. just some basic ideas like that or figure out hoverbike physics so everyone is happy before wasting time polishing it.

[@steinmayer2791]

I disagree with you about the Zeus not making sense. That the Ursa does not fit sucks, but normally any cargo vehicle uses as much space as possible. The C1 and C2 make less sense cause they use just like 60%-70% of the space.

[@Anachroschism]

You would think cargo grids would be designed with standards in mind, more so in a dedicated cargo ship, but it's the same IRL, when a standard changes, or is added, after something is built, which is what happened in SC's case. If one is manually loading, it's not necessary to pack to maximum capacity each time. What they could do, is introduce some more box sizes.

[@three2nine937]

With 3 stack cargo grids, can you not just put the boxes with 1 ccu of height on the bottom?

[@MayuFuji]

Problem is for instance: some mission just gives a bunch of 2x2x2 SCU boxes, if you have a 3 high and 5 wide grid like on the Zeus CL, you end up with unfillable gaps

[@zantrag]

I hope CIG will consider going back thru every single ship, and resizing the cargo grids/ceilings, to current box sizes. Eliminate all restrictive, artificial limitations. Things like: Artificially narrow ramps on the Zeus series, just to prevent the Ursa from fitting, limit cargo placement. Adding steps or railings in a cargo area to artificially limit cargo capacity. These things are obviously intentional cargo limiters. Optionally, make the entire floor from mag-plates, in every ship.

[@wild_lee_coyote]

Other than the Zeus CL most of the ships that have the biggest problems are the ones that need a serious rework anyway. Part of the rework can be adjusting the dimensions a bit to better facilitate standard cargo. A slight change to the Caterpillar, it can go from 106 different boxes to 26. To do this make the cargo bays in the Caterpillar 1 scu wider then you can have a 32scu box across then a 24 scu box on top. Then make 2 of the modules 1 scu longer and 2 modules 1 scu shorter then you combine 64, 2 and 1 scu boxes boxes into 4 larger 24 scu boxes. Not including the front module, that takes 80 individual boxes of mixed sizes into, 20 large boxes in 2 sizes (24 and 32). The front module could be tweaked to go from 26 individual boxes to 6, 24 scu boxes. The Caterpillar would go from 106 individual boxes to 26 boxes. Only 1 scu wider for the cargo modules, 2 modules 1scu shorter and 2 modules longer, and 1 scu more clearance in the front module. The Caterpillar is in need of a rework anyway, if they made these adjustments then you can make one of the most popular ships even more functional.

[@OutlookJonas]

I was quite excited for the Zeus CL when it was first announced. The moment I saw the box stacking pattern and the size of the cargo bay door I immediately hated it. I'm never pledging for an unreleased ship ever again, lesson learned.

[@moontreecollective6718]

Physicalized cargo was the death of this game. We have the data now. As soon as they announced and implemented physical cargo, their numbers started dropping. And that’s because they don’t understand there’s a silent majority of players who never asked for this, and don’t want to spend half their play sessions moving boxes around.

[@frogger2011ify]

@@moontreecollective6718 no it dropped off at master modes cargo has a much smaller impact

[@moontreecollective6718]

@ people were more vocal about master modes. Everyone I knew personally who tried or played the game casually actually liked master modes, but hated the cargo changes and stopped playing. It makes sense; the casual players who might spend around $300-$500 over the course of a year just want to smoke a bowl and run some cargo, maybe do some salvaging, they aren’t on spectrum, they aren’t leaving KZbin comments, they just want to play a couple hours and have fun in space. They don’t want to fucking move boxes around.

[@Banzai51]

That might be more because of MM and the inventory changes. The inventory changes are ridiculous.

[@Kyle-sr6jm]

Physicalized cargo was a necessity. Forcing loading/unloading on players was not.

[@moontreecollective6718]

@ this is the way

[@AtlasRandGaming]

At this point, I’m just waiting till Mike fixes the game before I even think of reinstalling it

[@Lolle9999]

I have said this for a while now but i wish they allowed us to grid snap onto non recommended spaces too, such as in the middle walkway of the c2 and in the c1, or allow us to snap onto the area in front of the ship components in the cargo area of the zeus even if that would restrict access to the components, they could just have the normal grid be highlighted in blue as it is currently and make the non recommended snap areas such as walkways or in fron of components a different color but still allow us to snap onto there if we want to. There also is shit design on lots of the places such as why dont they allow the spirit to snap in the back and add a front or mid access to the ship such as the ladder on the zeus. The point of the zeus cl is to push everything towards the front of the ship to get more cargo area in the back but when they did that they also added a bigger stair case from the cargo area to the living area that takes lots of extra space in the cargo area so they lost half of the extra room they gained through pushing everything forwards by placing that extra big staircase there instead of using the zeus es stair. Also the zeus cl should allow us to grid snap next to the stairs since that is another 8x scu on each side of the stair case that is just completely wasted space at the moment. There are so goddamn many arbitary limitations like this in the game that makes me go mad, these changes would bring up the cargo size from 128 to 152 on the zeus and it would do that comfortably without any drastic changes and the spirit would have 96 cargo and maybe even more if they allowed to snap onto the entrance area in the very back next to components, and the a2 why cant we load crates in 4 height such as the c2? because arbitrary limitations and i fucking hate those limitations. I hate when games put on training wheels like this and dont allow us to make choices that may have consequences, if i want to snap onto areas that would restrict movement in the ship then let me, if i want to jump off a ingame building then let me without putting up invisible walls to "save" me as an example on forced on training wheels. I understand if they dont want to put the grid on every single area in the ship such as the cockpit but they should definitely put a cargo grid on the ENTIRE cargo area, and dont even get me started on the reclaimer....

[@Qbertqueso]

I like your raw feedback vs blame game approach. The standardized approach to cargo grids/boxes is what is needed

[@vordoch]

i make plenty of money with my Taurus, it's quick and easy to load and unload, the tractor beam is perfect, it holds a decent amount of cargo (which I procure from bounties), it's quick to get in and out of with multiple ways to do so. Honestly it's all I need, especially now I can just store the cargo at my home port and then sell it whenever i want to... well, if the TDD would actually let me sell stored cargo, it just doesn't show up.. Problem is the workaround is to put it back onto your ships cargo bay, go back to the TDD to sell, go back to your ship to unload the cargo again, send it down and... oh wait, it told me it's all "sold" but i didn't get any of the money for it.... Hells bells.. Tried it again later and only got two thirds of the amount it said it sold for at the TDD. Still, my point is the Taurus is bloody great! :D

[@Voss44]

Alternatively, allow the person to speculate the size of the boxes when picking up the shipment from the cargo elevator. It’s not the cleanest solution but it would bridge the gap from what we have now and the current ship designs. So based on your ship layout you can allocate 2x3 32 SCU, 4x 8 SCU, etc.

[@jaracrassen7902]

It's insane that even new ships are coming out with these problems, still.

[@dicegamer3466]

Zeus CL is garbage. I got rid of mine less than a week after gaining access to it. There’s no reason a brand new ship should be so poorly designed.

[@steinmayer2791]

I want you to explain, what is so bad about it. Only cause of the cargo grid?

[@dicegamer3466]

In addition to the configuration of the cargo grid itself needing work, the interior of the cargo bay itself is very cramped which makes it difficult to maneuver boxes. I’ll also point out, as many others have, that the ramp door is too narrow, which makes placement of boxes tricky when using the onboard tractor beam.

[@steinmayer2791]

@@dicegamer3466 so it is only about the cargo. Yes could have been better yes, but the ship itself like the other Zeus ships is not garbage. Still way better than many other.

[@dicegamer3466]

It’s a cargo ship which can’t easily carry cargo. It actively frustrates players when they attempt to use it for its intended purpose. That makes it garbage no matter its other features.

[@Ogata123]

@@steinmayer2791”it fails in its intended purpose, but it isnt a failure.” Lol

[@Narrushar]

A 4scu box or a 6scu that can be loaded vertical. small change but could add variation and flexibility. Though nesting boxes just fixes a lot.

[@wils315]

I think this issue is more because of the min/max nature of gaming. The Hull C is a cargo ship in the style of a modern day container ship yes. But there are a lot of other types of shipping where you will not have standard containers that fit perfectly to fill the hold, you can be weight limited as well as volume. In the industry I work in we have been sent at best speed 300NM with only a 2 meter by 1 meter box on a 800m2 deck just because it was urgent, and we were paid above market day rate for it. I look at the smaller ships as being more a variety of general cargo or supply ships. Rather than trying to make all the ships perfectly hold the largest boxes they need to provide missions with higher value small or odd shaped cargos that have a priority so you don't feel the need to fill the hold. And part of that should be smaller cargo ships being faster, or being able to get into bases big ones can't. So large cargo ships literally can't complete those missions leaving them for specialists.

[@Vioblight]

I’ve been so annoyed loading ships I decided to buy a Starlancer max upgrade from a Zeus even tho I love the Zeus. Caterpillar no elevators. Carrack doors don’t work. Zeus is a game of Tetris, Freelancer tiny door. C2 amazing, Connie Taurus not that bad to be honest. Man I love unique ships but some things should be uniform! Also the ATLS is the fastest way to load and unload and it works best with elevator cargo ramps than ramps. Soo to min max I’ve chosen again the new… Starlancer godamnit they got me again

[@Vioblight]

Upvote this comment people because I’m spitting facts here 😎

[@grayven]

You’re not worried you won’t be able to load the Starlancer from only one side?

[@Vioblight]

@ not to worried unless I’m missing something. It will be easy and quick to load. From the sides of the elevators front or back, the vehicle area can be loaded from the ramp or from the elevator. The elevator section could even be loaded through the ramp section if nothings in there. Also every size cargo container can be used for every inch of the grid. Unlike the Zeus and caterpillar which need different sized boxes to fill it up…

[@albinobluesheep]

Is there a reason all of the "yellow" boxes are 2scu instead of 4scus? I get some of the cargo grid shapes result in not being able to use them in some parts (since they would have to be on their side), but for something like the the Coni, instead of 16 2scu's on the top, you could do 8 4 SCUs The problem of mixing box sizes still exist, but that cuts a lot of them in half.

[@cjthemisfit]

I just upgraded from the nomad to the Zeus CL so I'm able to heal more. I had no idea there were those giant boxes. So when I decided to take a mission to haul 107 items I didn't expect to have to make two trips because the cargo holds isn't big enough. I ended up not being able to complete the mission because there was a server error and force abandoned it. I wish there was a preview of what kind of boxes you'll be hauling so you can plan accordingly

[@YoGramGram1]

Unironically one of the most important 20 minute feedbacks to CIG this year.

[@luggagednr7592]

The observation regarding the Zeus is so pertinent. You have a brand new ship which requires a jigsaw of cargo to achieve the 128scu, so bad that it makes it actually too much of an effort to really use it. Despite the tractor beam I have gone back to using the raft as it is much easier to load. Agree with your observation - Auto-load yes, but at a cost. We need standardised loading grids, at 8,16,or 32 scu, and you choose what to use for your ship. And don't get me started on the broken Hull-C, which is so unusable it is no longer a joke.

[@criticalchai]

yeah i just stick to 72 SCU (two 32s and 8 along the walls) and it works fine. shift it all right loading and I can actually reach the door controls. I could probably do another 16 scu column along the side but getting stuff into place without glitching isnt worth the effort. although I dont own a Cat its definitely a ship they need to redo. scale up the cargo modules to load the bigger boxes or perfectly fit the 16 or 24s. Not every ship needs to fit the 32 but unless its a titan it should be able to fit the 8SCU+ boxes perfectly

[@Banzai51]

The problem with autoloading costs being high is that cargo mission payouts and trade margins are pretty low. You can easily make it that so autoloading/unloading makes it unprofitable.

[@luggagednr7592]

@@Banzai51 Agreed, to work it would need to be part of a balancing overall. I wasn't trying to recommend adding a charge with the current reward system!

[@saintlonestar5843]

For someone that owns a Freight forwarding business. The least amount of time we have to touch a box the better. Cargo size and grid size like you said should be equal

[@Thoringer]

The most aggravating part is the artificial limitations they put on ships for no other reason than "balance." This is so BS. M2, the strange layout of the Zeus ES - just to reduce cargo size? Just make the extra tank bigger and you have a believable difference, but just having your components pushed inwards is so ridiculous.

[@SkyeWolf310]

Just a quick fact, conex boxes come in various lengths. They're not one standard size. Conex boxes are also available in non-standard lengths, such as 16, 24, 45, and 53 feet. The height is standardized but not the length.

[@HughJazz69696]

I agree with you Mike. I haul a lot in my Corsair, the 72 it's listed for should be easy peasy....when/if I choose to pack it with 180 (and yes I get that in there) then its on me and I agree it's a skill game of tetris at that point. But what the ship is listed at should be easy to move standard boxes in and out.

[@The1RandomFool]

The cargo grid on the Zeus CL is pretty annoying. In order to fit many of the medium hauling missions into it I have to utilize the non-grid space at the edge of the cargo hold. The grid does not play nice with the 8 SCU cargo containers. But once I learned what I have to do to fit the containers in, it wasn't that bad. What's funny is the containers in the middle are easier to get out when the containers on one side are not snapped to the grid.

[@lugeneparker]

A question ive been asking my self lately. how in the world are we supposed to load the BMM planetside? Is it only loadable in space? I was going to use mine as a fancy cargo hauler that can defend itself but with it on the back burner im seriously considering melting my BMM ccu along with a few other things so i can have enough to try and snag a Pioneer this IAE. I'd lose the value the ccu has gained but id rather have a ship like the pioneer with its role defined and now that its a focus to be finished up within a year or so while there being better cargo haulers available.

[@solidicone]

I fully expect that a complete rework of how cargo grids function in general is going to happen before 1.0. Especially since fiddling with those grids is now a really central game mechanic. They work as is now, but I never do auto loading.. ever... because it always does something goofy with it. It takes longer to do it myself sure, but its the only way to be sure its actually going to work every single time

[@ToastyMcGrath]

In the case of the Zeus CL, it's clear that CIG overpromised last year when they announced it would have 128 SCU. They overpromised and then had to scramble to make them all fit. But the problem now is that they can't go back. When they put a concept ship up for sale, they need to leave the numbers flexible.

[@lunasakara7306]

I think it's more that they said it'll hold 128 SCU, and then realized that would make the Zeus the smallest ship that could carry an Ursa, so they had to fuck it up ASAP. (CIG really hate letting medium ships carry an Ursa; the FreeMAX being the smallest ship that can, and I'm willing to bet as soon as they rework it, that "feature" will be deleted, because fuck you.) Listen, all you have to do is move the ramp hydraulics to be externally mounted on the bottom of the ramp, and suddenly, you could drive an Ursa in... you could fully unload the cargo bay without it getting blocked in... but noooooo, let's but these ramp hydraulics inside, and give them this huge glass cover so you absolutely CAN'T fit anything inside we don't want you to fit inside.

[@IrisCorven]

They could easily solve this by going back to the original claim that stuffing the cargo bay would limit component access. Right now, we're getting shafted on box tetris movement because they HAD to make sure there were pathways through the hold, even though the thing has a goddamn ladder too.

[@RisenKaiser]

Sooo what you want is .... Cargo plates? like a base to stick things on it and move the whole plate with all thoses randoms box on it? or sticky boxes that can lock on other boxes on the sides or top

[@masoziuduak3690]

Would love to see some 3 high boxes. Like a 12 SCU box that has the form factor of an 8 SCU box with a 4 SCU on top of it. Those would help out all those ships with 3 high grids without having to completely redo all the ships. Just adding a few box sizes.

[@bamcorpgaming5954]

i wonder if they could make it to where the smaller boxes can snap ON to eachnother and be transported like aht? like instead of grabbing 16 single scu boxes you can snap them together to make a 16 scu amalgamation of 1 scu boxes so its easier and less tedious to move, so even if you have to break it apart to fit you still dont need to make 16 trips to the freight elevator to load or unload. another idea would be to put cargo grids on the ROOF of the cargo bay and load it top and and allow boxes that are sandwiched to be removed and or place.

[@CaptWinky]

My ships don’t seem to have any cargo grid in them at all at this point. Neither do the elevators, however, this doesn’t affect cutter or Cutlass owners that much. Drake users don’t bother with fancy cargo grids anyway…

[@ZipinS1]

evry box twisting and turning only by the simplest Bump with the tractor beams makes precise loading impossible too.

[@BizzMRK]

or the ATLS which just rams it in there with force

[@IXxJordan]

An easier alternative they can do is flatpack scu, so instead of it all being cubes to visualise volume they could turn some into rectangles. Its not a great example and would need work but just to nudge the idea along, you could get one thats say 2scu tall but 8scu in length. These can be rotated vertically etc, it would mean that you could fit those yellow areas in like 2/3 flatpacks instead. Example; 32scu at the top of the Zeus CL takes 16 2scu boxes - whereas if you could do flatpacks (they can set different sizes) You could theoretically use 2x8 flatpacks (Height x Length) and turn that into 4 flatpacks to fill that area, 2x8 turns that into 2 flatpacks. It would just be down to CIG, what sizes do they want and how it would work - im sure someone with better math can work it out, if mine is right it would be open to exploit by just doing certain flatpack sizes to get around cargo capacity. Another idea; How about like a pallet - you can set these sizes say a 16scu pallet and it comes with its own cargo grid, you can connect 8 2scu boxes or whatever you want while in the elevator then you can "lock it" then take that pallet to the ship and it acts just basically like a personal cargo grid.

[@tommytherookie]

Hi Mike, my 2 cents about your comparison between SC and real life cargo ships. I do agree that there should be a standard for ships like the Hull-C (D-E) that we can compare to a cargo ship (boat). But if we take real life example, I'd compare ships with less than 600SCU like an 18-wheelers. Those trailers aren't always filled with standard box. And if we remove all those box sizes, all those years of playing Tetris are gonna go down the drain. Cheers!

[@Legolas936]

as someone working wit hthe reclaimer for agood long while now... i don't mind that layout, i really don't use teh cargogrid anyways, i build container castles in the main hold, and stuff whatever parts i loot from the ships into the lower hold, or use it as a vehicle bay

[@goddessvalkyrie]

I made a spectrum thread on the feedback section called "Cargo SCU problems, limitations and logistics" you should take a look because honestly I feel like if they don't sort out the cargo management before we get multiple qualities we are going to be screwed. Absolutely agree with you with the cargo ships needing to have better grids. In fact even going back to the vulture, just give the ship a 22scu grid already so we dont have everyone running loose cargo clogging the server with physicalized entities;

[@TwinTonyz]

I can fit 1200SCU of s16 boxes in the Reclaimer without impeding the grids, but if I wanted to juggle, I can stack 1600SCU in the processing bay alone. Before the rework, I could sell all that off-grid from my entire ship, now the system errors out of you try selling anything off-grid or if you stack on gridded items.

[@sjoervanderploeg4340]

Those shipping containers also come in different length sizes! The "default" unit in SC is an SCU, which is a cubic meter.

[@hermeister3870]

See i thought that but apparently one scu is 1.25m

[@sjoervanderploeg4340]

@hermeister3870 yes, that is the size of an internal bulk container!

[@hermeister3870]

@@sjoervanderploeg4340 but a cubic metre would be a cube with sides of a flat 1 m not 1.25 right?

[@sjoervanderploeg4340]

@@hermeister3870 yes, that is why the CONTAINER is BIGGER than the volume it contains. An IBC container has a volume of 1200L in total, but only has 1000L of usable volume. The same concept seems to be true for SCU units, although I do wish we had more flexibility in the choice of container used.

[@hermeister3870]

@sjoervanderploeg4340 yeah that makes sense