SaltEMike Reacts to Star Citizen: The IAE Show Episode 2

[@nikmagic8350]

CIG: we want ship combat to be like a puzzle. The puzzle: it goes into the square hole.

[@wilo7113]

Big guns >>>

[@SkyForceOne2]

yeah you can theory craft all day how players SHOULD play, but in the end the most reliable and simple solution will win.

[@sanctred]

LMAO

[@VeiLofCognition]

9 years after backing this and im still watching these guys talk about years from now pie in the sky, its unbelievable. I cant even look at these guys faces without rolling my eyes at this point. "We plan to" "One day you'll be able to" Its to the point that its a meme of itself.

[@VeiLofCognition]

PS ...i always forget the guy on the rights name, but he always seems like hes being dragged out to say a bunch of shit he doesnt want to. Almost the vibe i get from Disco Lando, but more cynical. LIke "Right, time to talk a bunch of one day BS, fuck it! Lets get it over with chaps."

[@Cavthena]

@@VeiLofCognition That's Crewe. He's the ship design lead. You can thank him for the poor design of all ships and the never ending backlog. I don't even get why he's on this show though. He has absolutely no say in mechanics or gameplay. He builds ships, which he can't even get that right, and that's it.

[@VeiLofCognition]

@@Cavthena Dont get me wrong here, im not judging the dude as a person. Other than to say that hes a slave to a paycheck it feels to me. It appears that it makes him a little unconfortable to go out there and talk bs, to his credit. LOL

[@Liopleurodon]

not wanna get personal, but Ithink at this point, Tyrer has no idea what project he's part of... from the MM SCL where he said combat is all jousting, while now all thats left is jousting and that he cant fly the ships. The thing is, he is director and building every other space game... but hes not director of the "Best damn space sim ever"

[@clickbaker1]

No more buying ships til 1.0

[@criseichenlaub6527]

13 years and we are still theory crafting.

[@xBloodXGusherx]

That actually makes me angry a bit.

[@sanctred]

Star Citizen funding is fueled by theory crafting and speculation. Everyone has to believe SC is their dream game. I think as the actual game starts to slowly solidify many people will realize it’s not.

[@VeiLofCognition]

It's annoying. I don't know how these guys keep a straight face at this point. They have to know they're full of shit

[@Mullins23]

The rock paper scissors solution is the best for game balance. Big ships = Rocks bombers = Paper Fighter = Scissors Big ships (rock) and their turrets should absolutely wreck fighters. (Tie weapon range and velocity to powerplant size!) rock **Vulnerability:** Slow speed Bombers (paper) can come in with S7+ guns at long range or launch a wall of torps to kill rock. **Vulnerability:** medium speed horrible maneuverability (They like to go in straight lines) Fighters (Scissors) are high speed to intercept bombers and are far more maneuverable so that bombers can't really fight back and must retreat. **Vulnerability:** Short range and no armor/low HP

[@protoni6996]

The misc prospector is most popular single operator in uea plaa plaa. mf it's only one 😂

[@XShadowAngel]

It's weird that they namedropped the Fortune, and showed the Guardian in a video, but...neither are for sale during IAE or even mentioned anywhere else?

[@FN1980a]

They are mixing in 4.0 stuff in these videos like the Carrack update in the previous video.

[@Smootier]

It's not weird. This is par the course for the disconnect between devs, and marketing. We've seen this same dance for a decade.

[@davidforinash2950]

there is a picture of the MISC fortune before the MISC propsector segment. You have to pause it on the frame.

[@saigyouayakashi5026]

Judging by what we saw in the Squadron 42 demo the way the vandull utilized their fighters was that they used them to overwhelm the pdcs and turrets of the UEE navy allowing the heavy fighters and larger ships to disable the weapon systems of the orther ships. So i would imagine that capital ship battles would play out similarly to what we saw in the demo.

[@atrum_eversor5022]

It's funny, I managed to do multiple iterations of the Save Stanton: Phase 3 mission, and I was like...holy shit the Idris seems like it has way, way more health than it used to, and when it finally went down each time it was after multiple engines and other components had been sub-targeted and blown off. After maybe two completions I watched this episode...and I thought about it, and that fight actually feels like what they were describing (albeit an early form). The boarding completions are currently bugging the mission unfortunately, but the ship lasts so long in a fight that boarding is actually viable when they fix it so the next mission works correctly.

[@jrzgcwrocks]

thank you.

[@sanctred]

People trying to board it via this mission is annoying. I was in a server where we had a ton of people doing the mission to destroy it but one party of people thought it smart to board during this fleet combat… Here I am the torp operator in one of the attacking Polaris ships and of course this rouge boarding party was getting killed by incoming fire from everyone else on the server trying to complete the mission. Of course these morons EVAing into a giant fleet battle were pissed because they got killed by the giant torp explosions and reported the crimes. Lucky me, I get a crime stat, auto abounded this mission I spent like two hours getting to that point and the rest of my play session that night is over because I am now KOS crime stat. Dumb people + bad game mechanics.

[@atrum_eversor5022]

That sucks you got a crimestat for the accidentals.

[@sanctred]

@@atrum_eversor5022 It's because the group of players boarding were all salty when they were hurt/killed in the line of fire when they decided it was a good idea to board an enemy ship that was actively under fire but multiple other ships... They were bitching me out in chat about it and reported the crime. What really sucked is i didn't get credit for the mission, but the rest of the crew on the Polaris I was on did because of course as the guy shooting the torps, I was the one with the crime stat. It seems as soon as you get a crime stat the mission fails.

[@logmo7959]

DONT. MAKE. US. WAIT. 2. FUCKING. YEARS.FOR.THE.IDRIS.

[@QuiksiIver]

bro the entire thing is a scam run by clowns... close your wallet and enjoy the free show (april 2013 backer)

[@Banzai431]

Yeaaah I'll believe it when i see it. They're just adding a whole lot more to the already decades long backlog. Again.

[@senn4237]

Yep, more hopes an dreams that are a decade away while we still fall through elevators.

[@zizhdizzabagus456]

It's a holy cig way! Talk more do less!

[@0Metatron]

What do you mean more? Cap ship combat has always been the plan!

[@Kalikorz]

@8:00 gunship role is removing turrets at range. They can tank/shoot from outside PDC.

[@protoni6996]

yeah but you need to be able to target them individually then. it's so hard to hit them from far. almost impossible if you ain't lucky. even turrets what are way bigger i try shoot today on idris with inferno. and don't think i got even one gun from over 1km

[@MilsimFanatic]

@@protoni6996 Honestly I think that comes down to them needing to add more stabilization when using the precision shooting mode. It's difficult currently to aim at specific components unless everyone is moving at SQ42 speeds

[@Fuar11]

@@protoni6996 precision targeting?

[@KiithnarasAshaa]

They can, nominally, but the guns aren't precise enough or fast enough to do that reliably. It's not a matter of your aiming, it comes down to the geometry of the fight

[@jonnelson7949]

fighters are for bombers, bombers are for larger ships, and turrets are to help the fighters. at least in an ideal scenario, how it works in game will probably be different

[@DaringDan]

All of what they said in this will change in 4 years when we get closer to this even being a reality because all the new money they're chasing will want something totally different than the people whose money they're chasing now want.

[@ultrastoat3298]

Good luck getting the 200 people coordinated enough to even have a battle like this.

[@mhmm4840]

@@ultrastoat3298 Look at other MMO's.Getting big groups of players to do things is the most non-issue I've ever heard.

[@CtotheD89]

I think light fighters aren't supposed to attack a capital ship at all. But they are supposed to harass and kill medium sized support and combat ships escorting the capital ship to hinder them outflanking and damaging your capital ship no?

[@JollygreenFullSteam]

Light fighters are supposed to go after components on Capital Ships. CIG has mentioned this multiple times, but the gameplay isn't there isn'tyet.

[@0Metatron]

Taking out turrets and components is absolutely the job of a light fighter and it’s perfectly doable and we’ve done it many times just using sub targeting

[@CtotheD89]

@@JollygreenFullSteam I can't argue against what CIG has said, but to me it sounds silly that the smallest ships with the smallest guns should be the counter to the biggest ships. Especially combat focused ships that are large and capital sized.

[@T51B1]

It's all just a bunch of theory crafting and is exactly what is wrong with the PU. People are fed up of the 'We want it to be like A or B' or 'We envision it to work like XYZ'. Every time I hear this crap I instantly ignore everything else they say because it's the same crap they have been saying for years and there's little to show for it. It's been over a decade of CIG telling us the same theory craft BS and the PU still runs like garbage and the gameplay they have continually talked about and sold us is nowhere to be found.

[@senn4237]

It's what is wrong with the whole project at this point.

[@0Metatron]

It’s easy to take out turrets with a light fighter, you just sub target. But you have to be good at holding distance, evading and aiming. Once the shields are brought down it should absolutely be a job for a light fighter to sub target and destroy turrets since they are a similar size or smaller compared to a LF

[@loccosheff]

25 years from now all this will maybe work. Same time when you will be able to call your cargo elevator 10 times in a row without any glitch...

[@shakezula5636]

A large ship doesn't take down the shields and then just stop. That big gun that took down the shields is now going to start ripping big holes in the ship.

[@skorne7682]

Except cap ships are going to be super expensive to build and to repair, if your aim is to board and capture, which it almost always will be, you're gonna want to do as little damage as possible.

[@mikehanagan7849]

I think it is interesting that Rich drops an entirely new weapon type to SC and nobody noticed at 6:55

[@Krimson51]

Yeah I don't see a world where fighters have a role in attacking capital ships, they don't have enough firepower to make a meaningful difference and they don't have the resilience to take a hit from the large weaponry. I think their role in large scale combat will be to defend your own capital ships by targetting opposing support ships and bombers who are a threat to your capital ship but shouldn't threaten a maneuverable fighter.

[@g0veGaming]

This is exactly how it should be. Fighters fight other small craft and defend their carriers. Bombers and Torpedo Bombers are the smaller craft that should be targeting capital ships.

[@generalrendar7290]

11:20 Heavy Fighters are set to take out turrets according to the Prolouge cinematic. Sam was also taking out the PDCs in his Hornet.

[@essentialasa]

I think what's missing from their description of battle is death of a spaceman, ship repair, and almost more importantly all the markers you need during that type of battle. Oh, and also the limit on how many people can regenerate at a med bed

[@derekwebb7577]

I would guess they are trying to say that it is going to be like a WW2 carrier engagement where there are specific roles for specific type craft. The fighters to protect the bombers and torpedo planes from combat air patrol and maybe swarm the anti aircraft guns to keep them busy. The bombers to take out components and s to do damage to the hull. Numbers and speed are the advantage of the smaller ships against the turrets. You don't want to be rolling up on an Idris with a handful of small ships, you need enough to overload the defense turrets, they can only shoot at one attacker at a time.

[@Android_ELITE]

“what do fighters do against a capital ship?” CIG: “they target subsystems. for example, PDCs and turrets.” “what can the capital ship do to stop them?” CIG: “well it has weapons specifically designed to shoot down fighters: its PDCs and turrets.” “the ones you want the fighters to attack.” CIG: “yes. but you’ll need to take down the shields first; that’s where your own capital ship comes in.” “so I use big guns to soften up the ship and then use small guns to destroy it.” CIG: “whoops, we’re out of time.”

[@memer5auru5]

This year certainly feels more talk then actually doing stuff tbh

[@senn4237]

Just like this years Citcon.

[@memer5auru5]

@ 100%

[@BrocKelley]

Maybe I just don’t know enough to be confused, but it seems pretty straightforward to me. This is where skill comes in. If one fighter can’t take out one personal defense system I would say that’s a skill issue. A large ship to take out the shields, a screen of light fighters to take out the personal defense systems, and then either medium ships to board the ship, or medium/heavy fighters to take out the components from the outside .

[@TKanal3]

Or a gunboat to take out PDCs/Turrets

[@Liopleurodon]

whats the point of the cap-ship then... when the fighters are still doing everything and by that description are even needed to bring the cap, Polaris as example, to its full potential... both sides will jst dont use them as their cost and the risk are just far higher than when every potential crewman just mans a fighter

[@TKanal3]

@ you should watch the video again and turn on the sound this time.

[@Silverhawk-u2f]

But why would we need LFs to take out the defense systems ? Those same defense systems that are aimed primarly AT light fighters by the way. To me Heavy fighters and bombers seem way more logical for that role and I don't see why we would need light fighters in that role, they should get shredded if they get too close to a capital ship. To me the role of light fighters should be to defend capital ships against bombers and heavy fighters

[@TKanal3]

@ jared brought up light fighter. Rich directly said yeah sure light AND heavy fighters. Read heavy fighters mostly from my impression

[@RyanFowlerSOS]

Anyone else get the love letter to the 80's TV show Airwolf? I loved that show as a kid.

[@The_Real_bubbazaneti]

We have to be realistic here.....The plan has been since the beginning, on how to accumulate highest profits and just hyping up the tech demo and sharing concepts of plans, that might happen, but realistically the concepts of the plans, will change during the years, with very slow progress, if they ever get into the game that is! But creation of new ships for sale in the webstore, while nerfing old ones, to have people buy the new ships, is always going according to plan and highest priority for CIG! You are so right Mike!!!!! these two guys, would perhaps test some few things of the game, and either approve it or not, depending on, if it will affect marketing negatively or positively, like making the Zeus entrance narrower, in order not being able to for example fit an Ursa. They dont play the game, like we do.

[@palehorseriderx]

I 100% agree that light fighters should never be able to go up against capital class ships and dage them, no matter the skill level or the time they have. My friend and I used to take down multiple Hammerheads and chain VHRTs while we were in a couple of Arrows. I also remember a few dudes went up to the HHs in Incursion missions in dragonflies, and took down the thing. That should never actually be possible. The regeneration of capital class shields alone should be greater than any damage smaller ship weapons can dish out. You should need to either team up to overwhelm the shields, or have anti-capital weapons/ships in your squad.

[@WithFriendsLikeTheseJerks]

The Airwolf homage really got me

[@Ono_on0]

it will be, 99% of the time, people solo capital ships run into other solo capital ships and a group of solo capital ships tries to ramp each other to death

[@MrQuik09]

we also have to take in that this would need 60 70 + players on each side to be what they are talking about and this will only happen for very few players like big orgs if they take it the way it sounds but we have to see

[@randomuserame]

Maybe for Bengal size, but for Polaris battles I'm seeing closer to like 25-40 per side if you include all roles (including ones that don't realltly have a true place in battles yet like medivac (needs DoaSM, which may not even end up being a thing given how med beds have been marketed so far--and honestly is a bit too hardcore for a game that *_NEEDS_* massive hordes of casuals to feel "alive").

[@JeanDupont-vp1ht]

loved the airwolf ref at the beginning ... tells you how old i am

[@Xzor]

Waka made the music for Starwolf! On point!

[@Lennek]

How they talked about taking cap ships down sounds a lot like how cap ship fights worked in FreeSpace 2. Even down to light fighters chasing down torps. I don't know if Wing Commander fights were like that since I didn't play that series but even the Vanduul ships remind me of the Shivan ships a little more than the Kilrathi although I do see a couple fighters having vary similar shapes as the Kilrathi. If you haven't played Free Space 2 there is a heavily modified version of it out there.

[@Bang1324]

turret:: rock fighter: paper heavy fighter: scissors

[@thomasinlondon2849]

Let's start opening up the cities and content fill them. Prefer that than yet more ships.

[@pbjracing14yearsago49]

But they need the money 😅😅

[@CHEESYhairyGASH]

Opening up the cities begins in Q3 2028

[@Howler-Legion]

Easiest way to take out a turret is to damage it from a distance right now, with good enough aim you can hit a turret from 600-1200m out and they have a hell of a time hitting you if you keep moving and changing directions

[@davidforinash2950]

if you pause it before the misc prospector segment, there is a picture of the MISC fortune.

[@Silverhawk-u2f]

One question for CIG, what will you do to prevent Ares to just shoot capital ships from outside of their turret range and just gun them to death ? Multi crew ships are still just fodder to all fighters, we need to fix that first and foremost

[@atrum_eversor5022]

With regard to fighters, I think they are going to be used more to screen for your Ares Ions, Infernos, maybe Tali's and Eclipse even, as those ships are susceptible to fighters, but dangerous to capitals. Heavy fighters will maybe help attack hardpoints, but light and medium are more likely going to be protecting the heavy damage dealers from enemy fighters, or trying to kill the enemy Ares and torp bombers.

[@Embarkation1]

Just saying - I loved Airwolf growing up. That, Knight Rider and Days of Thunder were my JAM!!

[@brianhaigh4530]

Truth! Loved them too.

[@Pr0t0typeSky]

Fighting capital ships should be about boarding, it’s to easy to simply attack its exterior, after disabling you really should want to board it to deal the killing blow

[@TheMacCloud]

yeah u should be killing the PDCs and the Turrets, taking down the shield gens and then hitting the engines to disable it for boarding. issue is... its nearly impossible to figure out wtf ur subtargetting

[@Smootier]

Why would you ever need to board an enemy capital ship during combat? Dont' get me wrong. I'm not against the FPS aspect of the game, but you're just adding an extra layer of needless risk/player deaths on your side by sieging a ship that the crew onboard will inherently have the upperhand in. You don't need to be inside, like ever.

[@alexanderdooley5833]

Ya no, boarding takes man power. Disable the ships and blockade um, random the crew and hull or clear the debris after for salvage. Only board ships you want to flip or take whole.

[@alexanderdooley5833]

Ransom*

[@Pr0t0typeSky]

@@Smootier you’d board to destroy, without boarding it should be disabling only. Then CIG can really penalize the destruction of a capital ship, make insurance or rebuild timers multiple days

[@charogne746]

that video presentation of the Mirai is dediacted to TV serie "Airwolf " ( 90's) :)

[@BadlyEquivalent]

I’ve been doing the phase 3 event and fought a idris in my Polaris and we had like 2 other Polaris ships and around 7 fighters helping. We watched quite a few ships soo in and out after a shield went down while getting blasted but they still were able to get out of danger. You have to boom and zoom a lot but I do see what they are talking about.

[@SBbigbird]

It’s hard enough to get 30 people assigned to the same place in their ships let alone place “orders” for what targets to attack. The way they talk about fleet battles, you need NPC’s to hire. I don’t see the human element to this being fluid at all. It would be 30 people doing their own task while being in a discord with 5 of their closest team members. Like a bunch of dogs chasing tires at the end of the day 🥴

[@randomuserame]

as a PlanetSide (both 1 and 2) enjoyer, it is 100% possible for an org to be organized to the level of actual military discipline, with some orgs being full of actual military veterans. The difference will be between hardcore (aka "the game is my second job" orgs) and casual. The hardcore orgs with strong comms discipline, responsibility rosters, and chain of command will win fleet battles 9x out of 10. In short, endgame/capital battles will be a sight to see, but only between sweaty orgs. Between a sweaty org and a casual org, the casuals will lose almost every time. Completely one-sided. The only exception will be when the inevitable streamer orgs start coming up, they will just brute force and steam-roll content with hordes of nakeds who will log in maybe just for that 1-3month span, and never again.

[@TNTNT20]

After fighting the idris last night, i can say the pdc's dont even get damaged. You can damage the guns but they still just fire invisible rounds afterwards.

[@itviking1651]

If you watch the SQ42 first chapter play through again, you'll see what they mean by 'fighters' taking out PDCs and turrets. You can see the different waves of Vanduul ships and what they are targeting.

[@KiithnarasAshaa]

I believe them that they believe they have a solid plan and are full steam ahead on that plan. The issue I see is that their plan is dumb. Everything they've described seems to be based on a Star Wars kind of vision, and they still neglect the geometric issues of space combat. I see this plan of theirs being an overall flop with the Star Citizen fans, because we liked what Star Citizen was and what set it apart from other space media. I feel a lot of people will just lose interest with yet another Star Wars experience with a different coat of paint.

[@solothkaroftrinsic3852]

Combined arms, like Theater of War which they pushed years ago and were saying which would come soon? Maybe to bring down a capital ship you need the branded joystick so you can evade the turrets and PDC efficiently.

[@jackarcher3706]

Went out in a fighter and targeted turrets on the idris after shields were down. You can shoot the guns off of the turrets. When you get shot at move away recover and come back. Seems to work to a degree currently.

[@tomfoolery1967]

So, when they put into the brochure for the Polaris that, "Designed to be a self-sustaining combat platform." and then give a story on how one destroyed 3 Tevarin cap ships...they possibly forgot to mention that not only do you need to fill all the roles in the ship, you need to field multiple SQUARDONS of other players in support ships to use one. It made sense to me that one day we could fill our bigger ships with AI crew\blades. But the thought that we also have to field squadrons outside of that...good luck I guess.

[@AlexandreParchomenko]

CIG: so this show is focused on capital ships combat, right ? Marketing: yes, so let's intro the show with a fat fury video to tease backers. CIG: you guys are geniuses ! Marketing: and they wont be able to pledge for the ship at this IAE. CIG: geniuses! But what if they complain? Marketing: we'll say the ship is not ready for purchase yet. CIG: but they can and have purchased concept before Marketing: that was only speculative 😅😅😅

[@Kallivak]

this is the strat that john and rich laid out. 1 take down shields 2 take out weapons 3 board and overtake.

[@Caennuck]

7:00 I am not sure he was implying it becomes safe to do so, just that your weapons which were ineffectual against the larger shield could now do something to the weapon and shield subcomponents. It's still going to be dangerous to make that attack run.

[@androssthered1157]

You can absolutely remove turrets and PDCs in a fighter after bringing down shield facings.

[@gabzsy4924]

Capital ships need to be much slower and sluggish and light fighters faster. Thus having a chance of trying to engage subsystems safely by doing bombing or targeted runs.

[@lss247]

You just need more fighters. CS Gunners should matter and LF too but to make turrets not doing their Jobs you just need bring more targets they can handle. There is no reason to make this type of battle easy to LF.

[@thomasinlondon2849]

Yea capital ships need to be mega slow. Would help the desync too, as seeing those huge ships ping about looks crppy

[@T51B1]

Last thing LF need is more advantages

[@gabzsy4924]

@@lss247 oh yeah people will love to be just one more meat into the grinder and dying like flies to fulfill a quota. Hard no. Both should feel impactful without having to respawn every 10 seconds.

[@alexking_17]

Maybe they're thinking of when maelstrom and physicalised damage makes manned turrets occupants more vulnerable.

[@CyborgNinjaJesus]

I also think that if PDCs and turrets are supposed to counter fighters, then you can't have fighters being forced to fight it's supposed counter, there's a missing link. What I personally think is that there will be either a class of fighters better suited for this role with long range weapons, or loadouts that you can equip that are very bad against shielded targets but can do a lot of damage to turrets and PDCs in a short burst window, like dumb fire rockets or something similar.

[@Voideagle17]

With large ship turrets, the turret is relatively stable to a light fighter. If they balance the turret rotation speed with light fighter maneuverability, then it becomes more even match between turret and light fighter. We saw this in early MM tests, where a Gladius could outmaneuver a manned Constellation turret due to turret rotation speed at close range (below 500m). Throw in a few fighters to focus down a turret and it’s a challenging but not impossible task for fighters to battle turrets. A few ways you can take out turrets in the recent flight models. Chaff clouds to mask signature. Fighter can manually hit turrets by walking their shots in with no targeting. Precision targeting mode as another option Out maneuvering a turrets rotation speed with normal targeting On Live, just cheese kite the turret range which they need to fix with the flight model tunings.

[@BC-vv3ot]

Why don’t you just say make the turrets useless ?

[@BritishEcho]

Just say light fighters should be able to do everything, because that's what your saying.

[@KombatKrab]

AFF has battle scenarios where its capital vs capital, crew vs crew. And the process is similar. They should try to bring back theaters of war to let us test these processes.

[@Lordparable]

Pretty quick upload, respect the hustle

[@TKanal3]

Seems cool, lets see if theyll pull it off

[@skorne7682]

One thing that occurred to me is that cap ships are going to be so valuable you'll almost never want to totally destroy one. But if you know you are going to lose it, what's to stop self destruct hit escape pods and kill all boarders?

[@wraithdino1217]

in most sci fi this is stopped by boarders either getting to the engine to power down the reactor that the self destruct is overloading or fighting to the bridge to override the self destruct

[@TaldrenDR]

Heavy Fighters take out capital ship assets (PDC, Turrets, Shield Gens), heavy bombers, and large support ships. Light Fighters take out Fighters and Bombers Medium Fighters can do both the Heavy and Light fighter jobs, but not nearly as well as either in their respective roles.

[@dr.johnorr3341]

My takeaway is that the capital ship combat they are describing is what they have working in SQ42!

[@VeiLofCognition]

*feature complete* lol

[@dr.johnorr3341]

@VeiLofCognition lol at least on the single player side 😁

[@CHEESYhairyGASH]

Q4 2034

[@VeiLofCognition]

@@CHEESYhairyGASH tier 0

[@CHEESYhairyGASH]

@@VeiLofCognition teir 0 arrives in the Q3 2031 patch

[@reamoinmcdonachadh9519]

It can be as he outlines, IF players are willing to co-ordinate AND communicate states and intentions. But that kind of discipline requires commitment and subordination of one's own interest to the interest of the group as a whole. Pdc (cluster munitions should take out a PDC) shield emitter (taken out by cluster munitions/missile) and turret (taken out by missile/heavy ballistics) in that order, then find a way to board. Note, a layered attack using precision with a variety of fighter types working in co-ordination and under the cover of other ships. That's the way I see it, and I agree with you, we need to see what they intend DEMONSTRATED and proven in practice.

[@davidkerr7]

This is the biggest problem with CIG they never ask the question 'but why?' Players: Why are 2 capital ships or fleets fighting each other. What is the goal? What is the reward? CIG: The players will figure it out.

[@USCGJAMESBENETEAU]

I do not think he understands you alone will not be attacking point defense in these scenarios yes if YOU by your self are attacking a point defense yes it can focus on YOU. if you are in a flight of 4 or more ships once the point defense is vulnerable to damage yes one of you may die maybe 2 of you but it is also being hammered by multiple other ships from multiple angles how is that hard to grasp.

[@GameModdingVideos]

Good work, Mike. Keep up the skepticism. Keep calling them on talking big and delivering small. I'm like you and many others: we want this game to be great, but we're sick of hearing empty promises. They're just dreams.

[@lesh.354]

We did a idris on polaris that was crewed ....we just couldnt break it. They already have a lot of the peices there they just need the ability to co-ordinate......but the big reveal of PDC was they only lock missles that are target locked. So dumb fire it is. John crew just said it....one capital on another capital is the worse.....and we experienced it. We needed the smaller ships and thats before we they ever add holo globe or engineering gameplay

[@Cornerboy73]

I'm just wondering about the general timelines - if we want people to move around ,reacting and trying different approaches to the battle, are we looking at like 30 minute engagement or something like that? If you're going to ask a large group of people to crew a big ship in a game with permadeath and put all kinds of perishable equipment, etc on there, then there's going to have a be a very real opportunity for people to decide if they want to either fight or decide to run for it.

[@stevenballard5889]

4:25 layer by layer is all good but the idris will just press the I win button with a freakin railgun….

[@Cplblue]

Maybe because I've been playing Sea Power lately, but I get what they're saying with capital combat. The task is to concentrate with overwhelming force on different defensive systems.

[@thomasinlondon2849]

Once you have the bridge you can activate a self-destruct on a cap ship

[@randomuserame]

Why would you want to? They're so expensive, its a waste of a few hundred million credits (or more). You can steal it if you have the rep with "the council" [speculatively], you can ransom it back. Or if nothing else, you can salvage it, esp if you scan beforehand and can see they have juiced/upgraded components or an upgraded hull itself [also speculative, pending final implementation of scanning, and crafting/salvage]

[@thomasinlondon2849]

@@randomuserame Well, that will certainly depend if you're in a position to repair and take it away before enemies return or other factors.

[@GrunfWorks]

14:56 @saltemike I would absolutely love such scenario in Arena Commander for testing. What do you think ?

[@DaGhostToast]

I didnt realise it when I was watching myself but you raise a good point. CIG really dont jnow what to do with light fighters. I said this before as well but dogfighting should be the only thing light fighters are good at. And I mean that in terms of manueverability and maybe acceleration. Their top speeds should be lower than that of a heavy fighter with bigger engines. Like there's no need to reinvent the wheel, you can just look at fighters and their classifications and strengths over the last century.

[@coyote-1312]

I don't know why @saltemike isn't grasping the "Fighters kill turrets/shield gens/engines/exposed bits" concept. In a prolonged engagement a turret can out DPS a fighter, and if it has a shield to hide behind, the fighter can't hope to do enough DPS to break the shield and hurt the ship. BUT a heavy strike (Cap ship main guns, anti capital strike like an Ares) breaks the shields, and the fighter gets within range *within a short period of time* to damage critical systems while they're vulnerable. It's a race for them to damage the weakened capital before the turrets can push them away, or the shields recover. Without the alpha strike, the fighter would lose to the turret, it's about specific timing of getting fighters in when the window is right. Turrets generally don't do enough damage to kill a fighter in a few seconds, but are very consistent DPS that make an area a hard place to be in for a longer period of time.

[@JaceMage]

I am sure they have played this capital fight several times through Sq42. So they probably have the loop they want just not in the pu.

[@Cavthena]

hahaha these clowns have no idea what they're talking about and even contradict themselves. The crap they're talking about simply doesn't work.

[@thesilver3794]

20:00 holy yappning

[@Lestat070707]

I bloody love the inter adverts hahaha I so want them to keep it up. Adds character to the game. Fallout style.

[@2298766]

They are talking the talk again. Lets see how it will be in the end. In my opinion a capital ship fight should be tactical, yes, but in the end, when all things fail, it should be like in Star Wars. Like Venator vs Seperatist Ship. But fighters and bombers (bombers are made for big ships or ground support) should have an impact too. This impact could be hard to reach to blanace it.

[@adamclay2161]

Fighters take out turrets. Just overwhelm the turret with fire superiority. If the turret turns to fire on you, then disengage!

[@Tardo84]

Back in Wing Commander, didn't we always get sent in as fighters to take the turrets and enemy fighters, out on cap ships, so the bombers could get in?

[@TairnKA]

Seeing videos of PDCs/PDS it looks like they can be overwhelmed (Rattlers) or I suspect a combo of standard missiles (size 2+) and ballistic fire also may work? ;-) I keep thinking how coordination (between turrets), communication (between turrets and CIC), planning (see communication, coordination and tactics) and especially situational awareness in the 3D Self-explanatory), needs to be practiced.

[@DeltaV64]

I just don't understand why they are talking about all this while the game can't event get something as simple as player inventory correctly. All of the stuff they are talking about will never be accomplished without proper command and control implementation and given their track record it might be feasible around 2124. I think the problem goes deeper though, the WW2 idea of spaceships is just boring to begin with.

[@blazekingaion]

I think a better ship for that role would be medium fighters or heavy if we still want fighters, or and bear with me on this. Gunships! take the shields down and have gunships go in real quick and start cleaning up pdc and other important parts and clear the way for boarding parties.

[@rootGamER1]

Was the prospector thing maybe to introduce the interchangeable cargo storage?

[@leslieviljoen]

Ah, the Prospector, I do like that ship. They deleted it to bring me the IAE patch, in which I can rent to back for free, yay.

[@AtlasRandGaming]

These are the exclusive group of super important people... the PAID testers... and their job is to make sure that no bug ever gets reported so that the UNPAID testers get the gameplay of being able to report bugs so they can be ignored! Go Paid Tester Group! You can't call this group QA because QA stands for Quality Assurance... which, well doesn't exist at CIG for the last 13 years.

[@RoadRashHD]

Capital ship warfare is so broke right now. A squad of Fury's can take out a Polaris right now lol

[@DennisGall-y1q]

how do people not get the airwolf sound reference?!

[@critic_empower_joke_rlaxtslife]

Because they are too young and have no idea what this TV show is.

[@4tonmike]

​​​@@critic_empower_joke_rlaxtslife Airwolf is as old as I am. Which is 40. The series ended when I was 3. Airwolf is someone else's distant memory. How much more so for a 20-35 year old?

[@jondspen]

I kept waiting for an Ernest Borgnine character to appear.

[@Sleeptastic]

So it sounds like there is some kind of weapon/specialized ship designed to defeat PDCs if the Capital Ship's shield's are down? Looking at the Squadron 42 trailer, maybe the role of the stealth fighters is to get close enough to PDCs to blow them up without the PDCs killing them first?

[@xzen667]

Light fighters should be anti fighter/bomber. Heavy Fighters and bombers should be able to lock onto these PDS, engines, and shield emitters with missiles as well as precision mode on guns/turrets.

[@MrFalkor81]

They could thing about heavy fighters (so this would look like heavy fighters are meant to attack big ships and bombers should finish big ships while light fighters are securing all). This won't work...

[@mrbaglog]

I love the idea of allowing players to effectively become raid bosses. No expectation that I will ever see it, but the concept is not like anything I have ever seen.

[@Bang1324]

The PDC's work just like a CWIS, I don't think that was them showing it bugged, it going back and forth to a target is just like a CWIS

[@GunShocka]

Im pretty sure that the main thing to take out turrets is just sheer numbers. Turrets can only target one thing at a time so if you are tasked with taking out turrets then i would assume you would be tackling it in groups. Someone gets the attention of the PDC or turrets and the other shoots who is no on defense. But i dont really see a sure fire way to actually kill a turret it might just be a skill thing at that point.

[@TheEVEInspiration]

Sounds like there is need for long range ballistic snipers to take out PDCs.

[@randomuserame]

Railguns are not yet implemented aside from the idris rail... [Hopium]