What Happened to the Republican Party?: A Conversation with Bret Stephens (Episode

Sam Harris speaks with Bret Stephens about the current state of the Republican Party. They discuss the strange change in Republican attitudes toward Putin, the character of Tucker Carlson, the war in Ukraine, the failures of elites and experts, the tension between concerns about misinformation and free speech, the Hunter Biden laptop, the 2024 Presidential election, how Trump captured the Republican Party, the criminal charges against Trump, the future of conservatism, and other topics.
Bret Stephens is an opinion columnist with The New York Times and editor-in-chief of Sapir, a new Jewish quarterly. He has previously served as editor-in-chief of The Jerusalem Post and as foreign-affairs columnist for The Wall Street Journal, for which he won the 2013 Pulitzer Prize for commentary. He was raised in Mexico City, educated at the University of Chicago, and was a NeverTrumper from Day One. In 2022 he was banned for life by the government of Russia from ever visiting that country.
Website: www.nytimes.com/column/bret-s...
August 11, 2023
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[@JerseyJersey100]

This guy wants to pontificate about the media role like he lives in a fantasy world where Trump doesn’t exist. He does, and he is a clear threat. I applaud the media not wanting to be an accomplice to his destruction of all our political norms. Holding off on the Hunter laptop story was them not wanting their ‘role’ to be as mass election manipulator not the other way around Brett

[@doctorstreamspunk9996]

The GOP is essentially an opportunistic business venture. The reason the GOP platform is so inconsistent historically is this: The GOP changes according to its political needs. Whatever it takes to gain constituents and money and thus keep power, becomes a de facto plank of their platform.

[@damiangrouse4564]

Projection

[@Boethius411]

You really think the record profits of Pfizer had nothing to do with the wholesale push for mandates by the Democratic Party? They didn’t push non existent science about the efficacy of vaccines? And straight junk science lies about natural immunity? Polls showed like 90% of democrats overestimated the risk of hospitalization… but it was all with good intentions. Right? Dems from Clinton to Obama to Biden had as much to do with creating the corporatocracy nightmare we are in as anyone in the GOP. Not to mention offshoring as much of the labor costs of manufacturing and importing as much cheap plastic crap from other countries as possible. They all feed and get fed by the fascist alliance between government institutions and multinational corporations.

[@BruceWing]

My friend, read the history of all political parties. None are consistent.

[@searchforserenity8058]

This is actually true of all political parties over time. "Every institution created by Man, no matter how noble it's original purpose, ends in self-perpetuation." ~ Frank Herbert. I actually propose a different view of the GOP's platform. Their belief that: Some people are just better than others, thus deserve to rule over (survive at the expense of) those who are not. The fundamental driver of this is FEAR. The fear that if I can't freely, without any consequences, engage in full-on domination of others, I won't survive. As you can see, it reveals the truth of their moral cowardice. And their ingenuity in creating all kinds of false illusions that it's justified. It is very similar to a drowning man who drowns everyone around him to save himself.

[@BruceWing]

@@searchforserenity8058 - You take your argument too far. Some people are BETTER at me in sprinting, basketball, mathematics, relationship development, comedy, etc. I am better than other people on those exact same metrics. You and everyone else in the world live with that same reality. Your argument that fear is driving this is completely insane. There are people on the Right, just like there are people on the Left, that have some of their basic premises incorrect.. but they have those premises as a matter of good faith. There are also people in each camp that are nuts.

[@pm71241]

Bret Stephens is being VERY revisionist when he describes his role wrt. Climate Science. Let's not forgot that Bret has an important stake in all this. He has been at the forefront of pouring gasoline on the fire against expertise. He has been a part of teaching people that any experts can be rejected if what they are saying don't comply with your ideology. He's absolutely not innocent in the current fact-free state of the GOP of the US political climate. Here's a 2011 Bret Stephens quote: “Consider the case of global warming, another system of doomsaying prophecy and faith in things unseen. As with religion, it is presided over by a caste of spectacularly unattractive people pretending to an obscure form of knowledge that promises to make the seas retreat and the winds abate. As with religion, it comes with an elaborate list of virtues, vices and indulgences. As with religion, its claims are often non-falsifiable, hence the convenience of the term “climate change” when thermometers don’t oblige the expected trend lines. As with religion, it is harsh toward skeptics, heretics and other “deniers.” And as with religion, it is susceptible to the earthly temptations of money, power, politics, arrogance and deceit.” No. He did not only point out that economics is a factor in how we respond!

[@jhonklan3794]

that quote is 100% accurate. It has long since graduated from being about the science to know an ideology.

[@whatsthatnoise5955]

​@@jhonklan3794care to provide an example?

[@pm71241]

@@jhonklan3794 🙄

[@raymond9016]

There is no war on "expertise" this is the silliest thing. You guys are upset that the institutions that pushed your agenda have been caught lying over and over.

[@ennius42]

An example would be the Net Zero policy in the UK. It’s a fanatical goal to completely decarbonise the UK economy by 2050. It will result in millions of people eating less and freezing in the winter. And the UK is such a small contributor to world carbon emissions that decarbonising its economy won’t make any difference to the climate.

[@WNH3]

Forget Giuliani's "timetable" - didn't the FBI have the laptop for months by the time it came to public attention?

[@invishand3]

What about the Biden timetable on Trump indictments? 3+ to 30yr charges... all 4 indictments right before the 2024 election? Giuliani "sat on" the laptop 1month (sept2020) while backing it up and getting it analyzed. Sounds about right. No delay.

[@Crimsonwhocares]

And?

[@Crimsonwhocares]

Oh you were thirsty for dick pics. Gotcha.

[@WNH3]

@@Crimsonwhocares And, they sat on it. If they wanted NOT to be on Giuliani's timetable, they could have revealed it long before it could be used as an "October Surprise."

[@Crimsonwhocares]

​@@WNH3 revealed... the dick pics... before Giuliani... why would the FBI do that?

[@DRAT311]

What happened to the Republican party? They reduced educational funding in their states, encouraged religion, taught their followers to make decisions based on faith, fear, and nationalism rather than logic, then were SHOCKED when a better cult leader came along and preached faith, fear, and nationalism better than they did.

[@Shiro_Amada]

Yeah, the left really out did the conservatives with ideological hegemony and cult fanaticism through educational pedegogy. How will the former conservative party deals with the rise of left wing scientism is quite the fascinating question.

[@vanessa1569]

Wow. That sounds very accurate.

[@tylerd.5694]

What are you referring to? Sounds like you're just saying orange man bad but I hope there's more to it!

[@tonywilson4713]

That is incredibly sarcastic and cynical and also *100%* correct.

[@gammagongetya8967]

Trump preached faith?

[@Bronco541]

Im continually impressed with the level of though-provoking discussion that happens on Sams podcast. Even if i might disagree with aspecs, i still listen.

[@TheDavidlloydjones]

Sam, "What happened to the Republican Party?" is one good question. Is it possible that there's a more fundamental one, "What happened to the American electorate to make it want *this* Republican Party?"?

[@wasdwasdedsf]

could it have something to do with the other side being a cult and installing an illegitimate old folks home patient who cant finish a sentance and is destroying the coutnry at a pace never before seen?

[@johnatchason6506]

​@@wasdwasdedsfconsidering Trump was a reaction to the Obama years I would say "no".

[@wasdwasdedsf]

@@johnatchason6506 so the vegetable stammering on stage and destroying the economy while escalating towards nuclear war with russia over a country we have no relation to or relevance with is not the problem?

[@ivandafoe5451]

@@wasdwasdedsf Your tone seems to suggest you think you know what you are talking about...when all you are really doing is regurgitating propaganda.

[@wasdwasdedsf]

@@ivandafoe5451 thats nice. which part of it is propganda? wait dude you cant be serious... everyone remotely concious stopped watching TYT 20 years ago... and you say i speak propaganda

[@blaster-zy7xx]

I’m glad to hear Sam push back on allowing lies to spread unabated on social media. As the old saying goes, a lie will travel around the globe 3 times before the truth gets out of the driveway.

[@steveors.g.applebee6854]

😂😂😂

[@noorzanayasmin7806]

I think at the end of the day a true statement can only defeat a false statement rather than censorship. An idea can beat another idea, not censoring that idea. Censoring the ideas/lies only makes it grow even bigger unchecked

[@blaster-zy7xx]

@@noorzanayasmin7806 I disagree. You can say what you like, but privately owned platforms must have use rules that need to be enforced. We have seen what it looks like when a platform has no rules. 4 chan and 8 chan both are sites where child pornography is distributed, violence is organized and scams run rampant. Just countering with "good ideas" is insufficient when dealing with people who are not out to play by the rules.

[@twelvecatsinatrenchcoat]

I'm glad to hear Bret pushing back on you because the "half assed attempts at censorship sort of turbocharge the misinformation." Go look up the Streisand Effect. I KNOW this is happening because it happened to me. I was a lifelong liberal Democrat, I still do consider myself "liberal". The more I see them try to censor & ostracize people for the crime of wrong-think, the more I distrust them. The more they make it a social taboo to say or think or even lend empathetic argument to the "wrong ideas", the more I am confident that they are the ones with the wrong ideas.

[@2g00dt0btru]

​@@noorzanayasmin7806 Sure, but slowing the spread of the lie down can reduce the impact of the lie being believed. We know for sure there is a bias to believe the first thing heard on a subject.

[@MarcioSouza1]

Sam’s voice is impressively effective at making me fall asleep. I mean no disrespect and am not joking; I’m a fan but often listen at night and can’t finish! 😅

[@r.p.mcmurphy6623]

🥱🥱

[@gravitaslost]

Yeah, I can't finish to Sam either. :(

[@ThatOneScienceGuy]

Same here. I like Sam. I even met him at a talk he gave in NYC and liked him a lot. But I still find myself feeling the same way when listening to him.

[@adammockler]

@@ThatOneScienceGuyListen on 2x speed

[@aaronpannell6401]

Gotta listen on 1.5 speed

[@sathrielsatanson]

That is the issue in a nutshell: Carlson is a cynical grifter willing to spew anything as long as it will make him money.

[@timothyjkolb]

Comparing a speed limit change to COVID is a relatively absurd analog. Traffic accidents weren't requiring metro areas across the country to rent reefer semi trailers to be able to morgue the dead. Comparing the crises really is a misleading illustration.

[@ericsynchrona5495]

"He's havin' a bad set, don't let 'em break ya, Kramer!" -Dave Chappelle

[@aaronpannell6401]

"That's when i realized im like 20% black and 80% comedian."

[@BrooklynAvenue]

The party has been like this since McCarthy. Even when they hated Russia, they did it for the wrong, self serving reasons, and they used it to hurt their political opponents.

[@david2869]

I think the major decline of the Republican party came when they allied with the Christian Right.

[@Gabryal77]

They secretly loved Russia, it allowed them to point to a nation with massive human rights abuses ( a pattern that predates communism ) and say "that's what communism gets you" without having to nuance their statement. They then took communism and applied it to anyone left of Genghis Khan

[@dimitrioskantakouzinos8590]

Says the supporter of the party that's jailing its political opponents.

[@firefalcoln]

I think much of the Republican insanity is fueled by their religious beliefs and their sense of being a righteous persecuted hero whenever they should be skeptically rethinking the actual ramifications of their awful behavior.

[@EpicLemonMusic]

Yes the republicans have been fucked since mccarthy but, up until Bush they have been at large people who meant well and thought their ideas were good and didn’t purposely lie lie lie. That has all changed. Now the republicans one after the other are largely liars, frauds, cheats, trumpian, idiot conspiracy lunatics. The democrats on the other hand all seem to mean well largely but are succumbing fully to the radical idiot lefts ideas mainly to get reelected or to even survive against the ever crazier republicans. Vicious cycle. Curable in a democracy? Sadly not.

[@Johnconno]

This guy doesn't know where the center is, or whether he's to the left, right or upside down.

[@nyiniamako]

His politics is woefully naive.

[@Johnconno]

@@nyiniamako That's a diplomatic way of putting it.

[@spiritualpolitics8205]

Sam is not a well boy. Scarier is Stephens, whom I once respected, appearing on a podcast with such an unwell boy. But then again Stephens works at the NYT.

[@nyiniamako]

🤣@@spiritualpolitics8205

[@rikachiu]

Bret and I would disagree on 100% of policies but I have utmost respect for any republican who can turn their back and speak out against their own party when they know it’s going the wrong direction. Thank you Bret.

[@mrjpb23]

This attitude is the problem with liberals and why they can never vanquish their supposed foes. They’re always looking for some reason to pat their opposition on the back over the one thing they can agree on, no matter how evil and abhorrent their other views. They obsess over the idea of bipartisanship. It’s depressing to watch. Stephens is a shockingly depraved individual, read his opinions. Finding Trump’s style crass doesn’t redeem him in the slightest.

[@dodec8449]

Title: "What happened to the Republican Party?" Most of the content in this episode: "How can we put the blame on Democrats for the current state of the Republican Party."

[@GENERICCEREAL67]

They do deserve a fair amount of the blame tbh

[@jmcsquared18]

@@GENERICCEREAL67 exactly. It's not both-sides-ism to admit that democrats have their fair share of sins. In fact, saying the republican party is insane is a trivial sentence. Like saying the sky is blue. It's a prerequisite of sanity to agree. It's more nontrivial and interesting to talk about how the democratic party's gone astray.

[@ontheruntonowhere]

@@GENERICCEREAL67 How so? By supporting science and tolerance so the Republicans would be forced to say and do the exact opposite, no matter how ridiculous and/or hateful? Let's face face it, Republicans did this to themselves.

[@aroemaliuged4776]

If you think trump and co have a get out clause for the fkn mayhem and lawlessness they have caused…

[@miguelvelez7221]

​@@GENERICCEREAL67Sins of commission and sins of omission do have a distinction in my mind though. And that distinction is even more stark in the context of one political party CHOOSING to slide into Fascist White Nationalist Authoritarianism.

[@tccaux]

Be interesting to consider if public health officials had left Covid policy decisions to public interests and millions more had died. I suspect we’d be discussing why public health wasn’t given more consideration not less.

[@leolions3831]

It seems like an over exaggerating statement to say they tell everyone what they have to do. There were no serious mandates and the climate scientists are just saying we need to do something! Not making irrational demands

[@nerdyali4154]

There is no evidence that millions more would have died with different policy. In fact the jury hasn't returned on that. That's water under the bridge, however, what matters now is the harms caused by the novel mRNA vaccines of which there is a lot of credible evidence. The relegation of anyone bringing up the issue to crank status is potentially dangerous given that there are moves afoot now to replace various traditional vaccines. There is still denial going on in the US public health service. Some very good studies have shown that the incidence of myocardial injury is orders of magnitude higher after vaccinations/boosters than admitted by the govt, yet the public are being actively encouraged to receive shots without being warned. It is very dangerous to exercise with myocardial injury and it is criminal that people are not being warned against exercise for a period after vaccination.

[@theboyisnotright6312]

Well that's the thing. You can't "prove" that the lockdowns and closing schools saved millions of lives, because if it worked there are no numbers to look at. I don't claim to be an expert on epidemiology, but I believe lockdowns kept the hospitals from being overrun. If you got COVID bad enough that you needed oxygen for a couple days but you can't get it because the hospital ran out of oxygen, you die. But if course everyone was an expert on Facebook or whatever 🙄

[@Nick-Nasti]

Doctors and lawyers “practice”. This is critical to understanding that those fields are so complex that certainty is rare. So when dealing with a pandemic, don’t expect “experts” to be perfect.

[@schmetterling4477]

Nobody was asking anybody to be perfect. We were asking people to be cautious and to do reasonable things to reduce the spread of the disease so that the hospitals could cope with the seriously ill people. That was like telling a kid on a sugar high to stop monkeying around: completely pointless. Next time around we will simply triage into the dead, the dying and those who have a serious disease like diabetes and the doctors will keep treating the diabetics first. ;-)

[@Mastikator]

I remember people were hosting "covid parties" and coughing in each other's faces just to spite the experts' advice. Meanwhile hospitals were overwhelmed and people with unrelated issues had to wait and die. There's a saying about leading a horse to water. The experts can give the best advice with given information, but then the responsibility falls to the public. People- conservatives decided to be selfish, spiteful and suicidally stupid.

[@synthesizerneil]

“The intent to communicate honestly is the measure of truthfulness. And most of us do not require a degree in philosophy to distinguish this attitude from its counterfeits…..Whatever our purpose in telling them, lies can be gross or subtle. Some entail elaborate ruses or forged documents. Others consist merely of euphemisms or TACTICAL SILENCES….The moment we consider our dishonesty from the perspective of those we lie to, we recognize that we would feel betrayed if the roles were reversed….” - Sam Harris in his book titled "Lying".

[@tylerd.5694]

Almost like he's been lying to his audience

[@duffydope]

The man is a know liar lmao

[@almcdonald8676]

I know but you must remember that trump university is way worse than selling the country out to foreign powers the using the justice system to squash discussion about it and hide any evidence

[@alibabaschultz352]

@@duffydopeWhat has he lied about?

[@doobiedoo3302]

@@alibabaschultz352 white knighting for a grown ass man get your life together summer ant

[@zaphodbeeblebrox8382]

Me an anti-war, anti-corporate, free speech liberal. Sam Harris: have conservatives lost their way?

[@gregquinn7817]

@37.00. Lol his advice on how to the public officials should have talked "well we think it's safe, but maybe not, and it should help, but maybe it won't " is beyond horrible

[@karenkaren3189]

My grandfather who was a very ardent Republican, would never recognize today’s RP

[@tylerd.5694]

😂 I know right! That's because back in the time of your abuelo everyone just agreed there were two genders and you don't mess with kids.

[@HOLDFASTBEAR]

No shit, they all sold out and morphed into greedy neocons.

[@jpm1544]

​@@tylerd.5694 Someone should have informed the church clergy about the kid part

[@theforcedmemefilthypapist2892]

I got tired of being in the losing party. So I'm prepared to give power to whom ever is going to give us wins like the bruen decision. I don't care about the fallout so long as we win.

[@dannyb1379]

@@jpm1544 oh no he fell for the anti-Catholic media propaganda. The rates of child sexual abuse in public schools dwarfs the rates of abuse in Catholic or Protestant churches. Teachers are a bigger problem than "church clergy".

[@jonw3462]

Vaccinated to the gills and got covid twice more than me.

[@miketomlin6040]

Covid vaccines are very effective at keeping you alive, so what is your point?. Millions of people caught Covid who were vaccinated! Most surived due to the vaccine/s.

[@redmed10]

Correlation is not causation. Amazing how you think two people's experience, you being one of them is in anyway representative of the country as a whole. BTW how many times are you saying you got covid?

[@jonw3462]

@@redmed10 I wrote that wrong sorry, Ive had I once. Took some cold/flu tabs, went on a fast and it was comfortable, had worse colds tbf. I'm not vaccinated but Sam would against their will happily vaccinate the country and world despite catching it twice and being beat up by it. Dude thinks he would have died without vaccine and he can think what he wants if it makes him feel smarter/safe but I don't want it or need it. I'm sure if I died from covid loads of people would relish in that like they do on reddit but Sam's lost the plot recently and it's disgusting these people want the government and big pharmacy that have lost most peoples trust to mandate a vaccine indefinately.

[@wasdwasdedsf]

indeed. what is statistics however is how we have never before seen 10% death spikes all over western world, happening curiously at a partiuclar poiint in time in 2021... along with 400000% increase in vac adverse event system... @@redmed10

[@TenTonNuke]

I was vaccinated and as far as I know I never got it. My dad didn't and was in the hospital for months. He's currently living on my couch because it destroyed his kidneys and made him blind. See? I can do anecdotes too.

[@schmetterling4477]

I talked to an elderly Trump voter once... and "what had happened to him" was fairly trivial: dementia. :-)

[@wasdwasdedsf]

thats rich. maybe you should take a look at the mental statistics for liberals versus conservatives if you dare. while youre at it, hav ea look at the illegitimate vegetable destroying the country at a pace never before seen

[@schmetterling4477]

@@wasdwasdedsf Dude, now you are just feeling sorry for yourself. I will give you attention anyway. ;-)

[@wasdwasdedsf]

@@schmetterling4477 aw poor baby knows all i said is true and has no comeback. a leftwing hack having to resort to ad hominems, that a unique sight. just get another one in and run away like a good littel boy now

[@ivandafoe5451]

One correction...Dementia is certainly NOT trivial. Commonplace and prevalent...but never trivial for those stricken with it.

[@wasdwasdedsf]

@@schmetterling4477 let me know if you ever grow any balls. i will always be the one with the last reply because you will always be inferior to me

[@Mattsretiring]

Sam has found someone who thinks exactly like he does but wears a red tie.

[@user-gy1pu3gq3d]

When was the last time Sam talked to a right-winger who is not a neocon? Scott Adams? Scott probably doesn't consider himself right wing and neither do I.

[@Mattsretiring]

@user-gy1pu3gq3d in next week's shocking episode- Sam and Meghan McCain agree that Trump is bad, that the 1st Amendment should be limited, and that the establishment must be solidified.

[@alibabaschultz352]

The echo chamber that you people live in is truly remarkable.

[@BridgesOnBikes]

@@alibabaschultz352 you people… as if you can know what OPs political leanings or group memberships are from this statement? I don’t think you or anyone can possess that type of clairvoyance. Just for fun, why don’t you try to make some guesses and see if you’re correct?

[@alibabaschultz352]

@@BridgesOnBikes At this point in our culture, most of the traditional political dichotomies have disappeared, like "liberal/conservative", or even "left/right". What we have now is what some people refer to as "mainstream/populist", or "establishment/antiestablishment", or what i would call "institutionalist/anti institutionalist". Most people who comment on these types of videos on youtube tend to sit firmly in the "anti institutionalist" camp, and have sort of created their own echo chamber, by only consuming "alternative media". And its not just a belief, but a full blown ideology not unlike religion. And like religious people, these internet ideologues become angry and defensive when they hear ideas and arguments that go against their own beliefs. The problem for them is, unlike the "institutionalists", they dont have science or the entirety of human knowledge on their side.

[@glenecollins]

32:09 the effects on children from having less than a year worth of online classes vs the effects on children from loosing almost certainly more than 10% of their experienced teachers for the next 20 years seems like a no brainer. Forcing teachers to teach while others are locked down for their safety would likely have killed around 3 percent of them assuming it didn’t make the pandemic worse, another 2% would likely get long covid and require a lot more time off possibly for years. However I suspect the main loss of teachers would be from an increase in the perception that the needs of teachers are not being taken into account and that the state is happy to put teachers at risk while under paying them etc making people less likely to want to become teachers. Since it is already an unpopular job and classes in many areas are already unmanageably large there would be extra stress on teachers exacerbating the current feedback loop.

[@glenecollins]

@@saviormoney. what is the “real data”

[@26michaeluk]

Long COVID is freaking terrible. I've had it 4 times but only the last one caused renal failure. I damn near died and I'm very healthy for a 40 year old. But I feel like death everyday and they've run checks head to toe and decided it could only be long COVID.

[@SimonCoulton]

Wanting to solve the homeless problem is a populist stance… Well that is definitely a take…

[@jjohn408]

Hey has Sam spoken about Epstein’s list anywhere? Genuinely curious.

[@aroemaliuged4776]

Nearly there

[@aroemaliuged4776]

Sam is a strange outcome I as a Glaswegian swimed small rivers… Google don’t recognize rivers Actually being a man that has the fkn testosterone too take on Putin??? Have you thought of this?? He could press a button..

[@Thisisahandle701]

​@aroemaliuged4776 There is approximately a 0% chance you're Glaswegian

[@user-oi8hk8xt6b]

Bret, like you, I also read anti-totalitarian literature during university. I was fortunate enough to study with Dr. Asher Milbauer at Florida International University in Miami. His expertise was Literature of Exile and Dissent. We read Milan Kundera, Ignazio Silone, Isaac Singer, etc. He brought Philip Roth into class one day to speak to us. I, for one, was struck speechless. Roth was a friend of Kundera. I honestly feel that if not for my exposure to that body of literature, I would not fully understand what I'm seeing today. Unfortunately, today's political environment looks all too familiar. I'm 60, so I'll be gone soon enough, but we have a 20-year-old daughter; I fear for her and her contemporaries.

[@Sanosukeafo]

They lost their f'n mind 50 years ago.

[@viekent]

So well said by Bret Conflating public health with public interest. I think it should've also been stated more clearly that experts or administrators don't implement policy but rather advise elected officials on a given subject. It is not a public health official's job to consider the economy during a health crisis.

[@MNP208]

Nor is it a president’s job to pretend he knows more about public health than our health experts.

[@someguy3429]

As if destroying an economy doesn't have severe effects on people's health and well-being

[@MNP208]

@@someguy3429 Sorry, but the economy will continue to go up and down just as it has throughout history. We don't have the control that we believe we do.

[@Jeff-rn7bm]

@@MNP208 Not entirely true. While the outcome of honest attempts to improve the economy can certainly be unpredictable, it is relatively easy to implement measures that will definitely harm the economy.

[@MNP208]

@@Jeff-rn7bm The key term you used is "honest". Honesty doesn't exist in the American economic culture. This was proven in 2008.

[@RLeaguer_Saint]

Politician saying health officials should glacé been more nuanced and honest! Did the world just implode under the weight of hypocrisy!

[@bernardvance9041]

Next he'll have Bill Kristol and Jonah Goldberg on to further explore what went wrong with the Republican party 😅😂.

[@imtryinghere1]

This is the kind of statement that a person would make who gets by on innuendo and smears. Part of the strategy of a narcissist like Trump is just discredit people, so their actual viewpoints and the facts the assemble into a logical framework and argument are dismissed. That way a mob of fools can take over and try to drown out reason and fact.

[@randygault4564]

These folks have never encountered a mirror.

[@David_Lo_Pan]

I think the normalizing of abnormalities is placing the U.S. on a bad trajectory. I don't know about you, but I've been deeply disturbed by the use of hyperbolic and disingenuous rhetoric coming from representatives in both parties, as well as their constituents. As a veteran, I've been seriously disheartened by the degree of incompetence and irreverence in their conduct, which can be witnessed on C-SPAN, rather than out of context snippets on MSM. Rational adults have to be objective and refuse to allow nepotism to be used as an excuse of wrongdoing. Impropriety is impropriety, regardless of who does it. Any groups using violence to achieve political goals can't be considered patriotic; If they truly were, they'd be trying to build our country up..... not tear it down. Because that is exactly what China uses Troll Farms to try to get us to do. Democracy is a very vulnerable thing; and I highly recommend the books "On Tyranny" by Timothy Snyder; its a nice pocket guide to defending American institutions. And "The True Believer" by Eric Hoffer covers how they can collapse if great care isn't taken. These two books paired together are quite poignant and empowering to even the most average person. And we need to get back to having conversations with people whom we disagree or feel we have nothing in common with.

[@stickjohnny]

The institutions are fatally corrupt and America is being hollowed out from within. It isn't too late to change the trajectory of the country but it is getting very very late. There needs to be a strong populist movement that unites right and left against this desperate situation and neither a Trump or Sanders type can lead it. America needs a uniter more than ever but I don't see anyone who is even nearly up to the task.

[@DonaldAMisc]

I second Eric Hoffer's "The True Believer", although I found "On Tyranny" to be more reactionary and hyperbolic than useful.

[@jimmaughan1898]

It sure is terrible seeing all those Democrats storming the Capitol, embracing Putin/fascism, spouting racism, denying and trying to over turn election results. Nice try with the both sides do it.

[@jjohn408]

Hi has Sam Harris spoke about Epstein’s list?

[@torsion7214]

So you're a vet and against the use of violence to achieve political aims? That's just retarded.

[@marcusdipietro1958]

Political leadership is far more responsible for the failures of the Covid response than the public health experts. Our leadership failed to balance the public interest with the public health. Experts consult and advise; leaders decide.

[@stanley5394]

The perennial “We have to stay involved or our enemies will think we’re weak” argument seems silly at this point, given the many times that the US has already bailed on military commitments.

[@miniman2132]

Any examples of the US not supporting a nation it had promised to keep secure in exchange for denuclearisation?

[@treborkroy5280]

Suddenly the left are pro war and violence.

[@MichaelJohnson-vi6eh]

Im only 55 and already Ive heard that argument a dozen times already.

[@peterhardie4151]

There are a litany of former allies of the US that outlived their usefulness. The obvious ones Saddam Hussein, Mujahedeen, the Hmong in Laos.

[@invishand3]

So u want a European Vietnam? Wonderful. forcing us into funding another military profit boondoggle? when Most Russian speaking easterners want to be ruled by russia. Gmafb. Get out...

[@jeffreydamonte67]

Sam lost his mind in his hurry to get Trump.

[@PlayNiceFolks]

"I heard they had headaches" - 45

[@Craigola]

One thing: it is evident in hindsight that the danger to kids in schools was seriously overestimated. But at the beginning of the pandemic there was no data to support this. There was no data at all as to the longterm consequences of maintaining in person school attendance. The reality in the beginning was that thousands were dying, the virus and its impacts was not understood and there were no medicines to prevent the disease or ameliorate its effects and no immediate prospect for such medicines, public health infrastructure was not prepared to cope with the pandemic and doctors, nurses and hospitals were being overwhelmed. And we had the president and other politicians not taking it seriously, not encouraging the public to take it seriously, not mandating commonsense behaviors like wearing masks and isolating when infected -- in many cases, advocating just the opposite. What if school closures had never happened and it turned out that kids were vulnerable, and thousands of kids were infected, got seriously ill, infected their relatives including older relatives who really were more vulnerable, and lots of people died as a consequence? Then I guess Sam and his guest would be complaining that the experts had failed to protect this population, shouldn't have been so arrogant in recommending that schools stay open when they didn't know what the impact would be, etc. As has been said, public health officials make recommendations based on their best assessment of the situation, it is the responsibility of government officials to way those recommendations against other competing public interests. Finally, public health officials, including Dr. Fauci have long recommended that the US should prepare for a pandemic. These recommendations were ignored. Fauci has become the whipping boy for all the mistakes that were made and also the common sense recommendations he made such as wearing masks. Fauci has acknowledged his mistakes, such as saying in the beginning that the public shouldn't use masks (he was worried that there weren't enough masks for medical staff). Perhaps Sam and his guest should read Michael Lewis' "The Undoing Project" that discusses how humans systematically make errors in judgment in uncertain situations. Maybe they would be less harsh in their judgment of the fallibility of experts.

[@gruud6700]

A lot of great points. I also thought about how they were stating the needs of the students for social connection and learning face to face from a teacher, but did not mention the needs of the teachers. What compensation do you give an underpaid individual to tell them they have no choice but to go on teaching as normal as a disease spreads which may kill them?

[@user-gy1pu3gq3d]

LOL

[@Craigola]

We have a friend who retired after 50 years as an elementary school teacher in San Francisco. She taught in Chinatown in a very old building without even proper ventilation, never mind air conditioning. And she said that would have been extremely worried about teaching during the pandemic. Even if kids were wearing masks, it would be problematic. And I can attest that our grandkids and their kindergarten classmates had a very hard time keeping their masks on during the day. Yes, so another competing concern was the safety of teachers -- something that wasn't even mentioned in this podcast. Interesting.@@gruud6700

[@SF2036]

@@gruud6700That’s putting the cart in front of the horse. The kids should’ve come first. Teachers who were at risk could have stayed home, and the district found a substitute

[@gulanhem9495]

Then how come it took only a few weeks for our Swedish healthcare officials to realize that covid was harmless to kids? Typical Democrat defending insanity. Okay, after this rant, time to put back your mask on and go lecturing about the climate emergency and systemic racism.

[@tenormin4522]

I noticed (it seems to me) that guests actually do not answer the problem: What to do with person that will not commit to peaceful transfer of power? Once more: What are we about to do with people that will not transfer power in peaceful way?

[@nicholasm2239]

Yes sam. Everyone should do their own research.

[@rocketsurgeon1746]

Sam should take his own advice

[@ExcitingBob]

"How does Bret Weinstein do a 100 podcasts on a single topic?" Sam Harris: "have I mentioned what I think about Trump?"

[@user-sm7sj2qu3e]

Sorry, but any conservative giving me the argument “ Think of the children!” Really turns me off.

[@devalapar7878]

How did experts fail? I followed this very closly and they didn't fail. People say they failed but I can't really find a mistake. People failed. They lied, misunderstood, ...

[@Mastikator]

Totally agreed. You can lead a horse to water and all. The experts gave the correct advice. In response people hosted "covid parties". That is just not the experts fault.

[@jmcsquared18]

57:50 I think this is a great counterargument. Exercising virtues in reporting makes media more trustworthy to people.

[@internetperson9121]

What happened to Sam Harris?

[@torsion7214]

Nothing, he was always shit.

[@dm3199]

Nothing he has always been that way. He was for torture for use of the nuclear weapons he's a fucking nuts

[@Andrea-zm1nl]

It is an extremely sad day for America that it's voters are forced to choose from a mild criminal and a malicious one....when will we all band together and refuse to vote until we are given ethical and moral and honest politicians? Or mayhap we should all refuse to pay our taxes until this changes. They can't lock up all 350 million of us you know.

[@hhumca]

Fantastic

[@prieten49]

On the failure of experts during the pandemic, we were faced with a fast spreading, highly lethal virus that was overwhelming our health system. I think erring on the side of too much safety was understandable, even the morally correct thing to do. Saying that keeping children in school so they can see a human smile is a higher priority than stopping the pandemic ignores the cost in teachers' lives that might have resulted. Frankly, the ZOOMification of learning and other meetings has real benefits outside of resisting the pandemic. I used to be vehemently opposed to the homeschooling movement because of the right wing barinwashing it enabled. But then I read an article that detailed the expenses and waste of time in physical school attendance. It's not clear at all that intentionally homeschooled children suffer any disadvantages versus schooled children.

[@coreyham3753]

Right on Very little was known about covid at the beginning of the pandemic. Erring on the safety side of things, with some much unknown at the time, was probably the only smart way to go.

[@MoireFly]

It also takes pointing out that the accusatory finger Bret and Sam pointed in this episode isn't really justified. "Experts" didn't say long term school closures were certainly necessary or proportionate - they didn't even get to make those calls, generally. There was no federal CDC school closing mandate; there were lots of independent choices. And some of those choices were worse because of fear - but who exactly is to blame for that fear? The experts that tried to prevent the pandemic from getting that far, or the republican reality-deniers that were _so clearly_ lying most of the pandemic that obviously nobody trusted their assertions that everything was safe. Most of the school closures started fairly early in 2020! At that point Trump was still describing graphs of exponential increase as a handful of cases that will die down soon. Musk assured us there was no risk. Trump looked into really trust-boosting stuff like drinking bleach or whatever. All the while trumpeting how everyone but him was to blame for the virus, it's handling, and how his handling was the most brilliant there was. In _that_ climate, schools closed potentially for longer than necessary in retrospect if all you consider was child welfare. Notably, that not even sure; the early treatments and mortality were much worse than later - so maybe keeping kids in school for longer saved a lot of lives merely by delaying. And it's not just about schools - it's also about teachers, that surprisingly didn't universally support potentially sacrificing their lives for a few more weeks of schooling. Considering all the bad-faith takes in various misinformation media, and the actively harmful political interference by the dunce in chief, and the inevitable truth that you can't rely on knowledge you don't yet have - the "expert" response looks pretty reasonable. Blaming public health officials for the retarded US response _as a society_ to covid is insane. That bit was the least broken part of the country, so _naturally_ Bret and Sam suggest they're the problem, here.

[@prieten49]

@@MoireFly You and I are in 100% agreement. I find it strange that Sam Harris just nodded in agreement with Brett Stephens's assertion. Smearing the "experts" with blame for their own political incompetence is a classic Republican move. They want to extend this mistrust to climate science, NATO membership, academic freedom, women's reproductive choice, affirmative action, basically anything that "experts" have tried to remediate through policies based on reason. Their preferred source of expertise is the Bible, "feelings," or white supremacist theory.

[@gking407]

Thank you for being a rational adult! Too often the violent children (conservatives) have dictated the narrative on this pandemic.

[@RJStockton]

You say this, but how did an ordinary person like me know that lockdowns, social distancing, masking, and so forth were basically useless back in March 2020? What special information did we have that the experts lacked? I don't believe in psychic powers, so I have to assume I was just using my normal brain to figure out that the virus wasn't "highly lethal," and that we couldn't do anything to stop the virus. It makes me wonder what the experts' problems were then, and what they'll be wrong about next.

[@Ton369]

53:05 - Ultimately, the entire point of contention comes down to this sentence Sam.

[@tenormin4522]

The question is wheather this statement is close to being the truth. What you Americans are to do with people who sit on the thorne and refuse to leave it? It seems to me like a path to Putinism, Lukashenkism, Panda Si- ism. What is your solution mate?

[@Ton369]

@@tenormin4522 but Sam believed this about Trump before January 6.

[@tenormin4522]

I do not have detailed history. What is your solution with election sticker and denialist?@@Ton369

[@tenormin4522]

My solution? No solution, unsolvable. I am pessimist. There always be fringe group which f´s things for a lot of people. We are finished as a race.

[@rjt98]

This is true... i've been wondering why is Sam so willing to overlook so many things that happened during covid?, then he says this line and it all makes sense.

[@JRHalasz]

I normally like what you, think/say but I’m listening to this and I am physically shaking my head. One aspect I can’t abide: We agreed to not expand NATO, but we broke that agreement.

[@pshehan1]

I am a now retired medical research scientist and am well aware of how long it normally takes to get drug and vaccine approval. But in early 2020 the world was confronted with a new virus and disease which early indications were had the potential to kill tens of millions of deaths. Here in Australia the first case arrived in January 2020 and shortly thereafter the number of cases was doubling every 3 days. A National cabinet of federal and state governments and health experts was quickly formed and implemented strict measures such as travel restrictions lockdowns and school closures. By April 2021 the US had granted emergency vaccine approval and made vaccines available in all states. The death toll was then 590,000 or 1,780 per million of population. In Australia at that time the death toll was 948 or 36 per million of population. The loudest and largest protest were against the government of the state of Victoria which had the strictest measures.. In September 2022, the government was reelected with a massive majority. It cannot be known how many of the protestors or their families would have died had the measures not been taken. In the glorious luminescence of hindsight, a leisurely inquiry is about to begin into the effects of the lockdowns and other measures.

[@justbecauseOK]

what climate science expert is telling us what to do? None, they are providing measurements and models and predictions, that is not the same as making laws. Politicians make laws.

[@howard5992]

Exactly. He also labels scientists as "arrogant" because they stand by their research findings. The way he frames or presents his views Stephens furthers the narrative that experts can't be trusted. It falls in with the idea that we shouldn't give power or responsibility to regulatory authorities or agencies.

[@voltaire6668]

What happened to Sam Harris? That's what I want to know.

[@lakingpaul]

The segmentation of Sam's audience as will inevitably be displayed in these comments just proves that Sam tries to make sense regardless of how some of his fans and former fans might react. Completely the opposite of the pandering that political parties do with their bases.

[@David_Lo_Pan]

He's pretty unbiased and consistent, until it comes to the subject of Israel.

[@JayEs31]

No he doesn’t try that’s why we have lost interest. He is an intellectual poseur. This is very fake trying to understand but not really. Don’t fall for it. It’s weak analysis

[@lakingpaul]

@@JayEs31 great example of my point, thank you!

[@taylorlibby7642]

Maybe I'm weird. I don't listen to Sam (or anyone else) to have my opinions confirmed. I listen to Sam to have them challenged.

[@JayEs31]

@@lakingpaul lol nice try. You missed the point and trying to pander on the comments section. He is pandering because he is not truly interested in in depth conversation ps or he would be having them with Jordan Peterson or Bret Weinstein instead of making passive aggressive comments and not actually trying to have rational discussions to air out issues. This is basically the core of his former audience people who claim to be rational and objective

[@bendavis2234]

I think his response at the end to Sam’s worries about the laptop is spot on. The media should never try and tip the scales. It always backfires when tried.

[@User-bl5cw]

What if they can do it in a way that they know won’t fail? Are you still against it then?

[@crazytactics3603]

@@User-bl5cw lol, classic addict... this time it will work i swear... just one more hit

[@credman]

When half the population is stupid enough to elect Hitler, it's a moral imperative to manipulate them to do what's in their own interest.

[@Alnivol666]

​@@credmanReduction ad Hitlerum. Wonderful. Who would be this Hitler in your situation?

[@brseeger1]

No argument there but Giuliani was a known hyper partisan hack. Why would the media take him seriously? That’s my problem

[@jeremybr2020]

I think the Republican parties affinity for Putin has a much simpler explanation. Much has to do with Trump's relationship with Putin, and the Republican parties spineless approach to supporting whatever Trump does, and supporting whoever he likes. Or at the very least, not speaking out against whoever Trump likes.

[@gideonroos1188]

The new republican party is working class and populist and forming a Trump coalition with the disaffected independent and left working class. Overall, this entire group sees Putin as a foreign leader who's standing against the same group of ivory tower elites that they see as the source of their woes in the US. That, coupled with a deep and multi-generational anti-war stance, is why they are more positively inclined towards Putin than the rest of the population. Rather than seeing Putin as an enemy and a threat, they see him as a bedfellow against the political, economic, and social elite in the West (in this case America and Europe), who is their common enemy. And who they see as trying to drag them into yet another war that's not in their interest. You may disagree with them, but you're nor going to get anywhere if you misunderstand their position.

[@itz_premium]

​​@@gideonroos1188this is more correct. Clearly the Republican party as a whole or in-majority DON'T support Trump. Basic observation of the last 3-5 years will show that to be inaccurate. If the Republicans really cared about Trump and his movement and what it stood for, there would be a lot more pushback against the witch hunt. But they don't. They care about what is politically expedient. Their 'loyalty' is fickle and thin.

[@user-gc2jx4gj2q]

@@gideonroos1188 The real reason they like Putin is as the OP said, because Trump likes Putin. Why? Because Trump likes authoritarians. He admires Putin because Putin has managed to wipe out all his opponents and stay in power for more than 20 years. Also Conservatives admire countries that have remained 'white' in their opinion. Of course they don't understand that Russia is a very diverse country but at least it doesn't receive immigrants from Pakistan or India or Africa, or Mexico etc. Also Putin's Russia is against homosexuals. Not to mention it's a country that's very hostile to journalists in general. It's a conservative Utopia in many ways. A strong leader, total control over media, no immigration friendly policies, no LGBTQ and wokeness, and war with a neighboring country to expand its dominance (hence the conservatives' call for sending troops to the southern border). Your response is kind of the 'politically correct' explanation, similar to Putin's official explanation for the "special operation" in Ukraine, but it's extremely misleading and it gives the wrong diagnosis.

[@jeremybr2020]

@@gideonroos1188 First off, I wasn't speaking about Republican voters. I was talking about Republican politicians, more specifically American Republican politicians, who are most definitely not working class. And talking about Putin standing up against elites is almost as funny as believing Trump's claims about going against the elites. Putin and Trump are as elite as they come. And as is the case when Trump was President, Putin is also a master of disinformation and propaganda. Because the person who is dragging Russia into a war is Putin himself. It seems you're trying to explain why people living in Russia, (or somewhere, I'm unclear on that part) are supporting Putin. And I don't know why you went down that road.

[@thanksforbeingausefulidiot9016]

So Putin's bombing of an apartment complex in Ukraine killing men, women, and children is his effort to battle ivory tower elites? Am I now understanding your position?@@gideonroos1188

[@Ikilledthebanks]

4 vaccines later, 2nd bout with covid.

[@sunkillsmoon]

Legendary move 😂😅

[@TheAstraeuss]

Oh were you under the impression that the vaccine made you immune? I don't think anyone ever said that...Sounds like someone is making a strawman argument.

[@Grendel-td5nf]

He wouldn’t have gotten covid if he’d gotten all his boosters😂😂😂

[@endlessnameless6628]

and youre here to tell us about it so it worked.

[@sunkillsmoon]

@@endlessnameless6628 lmfao I survived without it and no myocarditis either lmfao only total suckers would get the booster 🤣😆🤣

[@normaemanuel4975]

What happened to Sam Harris? That's the question.

[@jank6340]

It’s easy to criticize retrospectively. Our leadership is tested on how it responds contemporaneously. We have world leadership crisis - that’s my take.

[@Mastikator]

To be fair, Sam, and a lot of people, predicted just how dangerous Trump would be. I knew in 2016 that Trump would try to overthrow democracy, I was laughed at. I was right.

[@grahamethy]

"Unfortunately it's very difficult to use legal means to stop someone from achieving their political ends, especially at this level of politics." I had to rewind because I didn't think I heard him right. So it would be more fortunate if it were as easy to use the legal system to stop people from achieving their political goals at the top level as it is to do so in smaller political arenas? Sam, please speak to saner people.

[@treborkroy5280]

They are ideologically captured. To people like THAT the ends DO justify the means. ANY means.

[@hnl2sfo]

I think Bret was referring to the difficulty of proving intent. Did Trump lie (with intent) about the election being stolen, or did he just "say something false" as Bret put it. Bret said that even though some of Trump's staff did tell him he lost (and therefore he was aware of the truth), others said the opposite. I think it is becoming clear that the system *is* treating Trump differently (mostly with deference) because he was President. There is also the fact that he is quite wealthy and furthermore has a huge base to donate money for his legal defense. More recently as in the DC case, Trump is using the First Amendment as a shield to say anything he wants, right up to being restricted by a court.

[@credman]

He's talking about Hitler, Trump, and all autocrats that are democratically elected because half the population is stupid. You'd have to be insane to not agree with Sam that legal means not being sufficient to stop Hitler and his clones = bad.

[@Malt454]

The law is usually an ineffective tool against those who haven't actually broken it. The point being made was that, at the top level of politics, the law can also be a largely ineffective tool against those who may well have broken it, that somehow holding office, or merely running for it, makes these people immune to legal consequences. If someone boasted that breaking the law on a street in broad daylight would only make them more popular and then they actually did break the law, would prosecuting them somehow amount to "a witch hunt" and would/should it make a difference if they are a leading high-level politician? "So it would be more fortunate if it were as easy to use the legal system to stop people from achieving their political goals at the top level as it is to do so in smaller political arenas?" - well, yes, and by definition, if they are "achieving their political goals" by illegal means. Otherwise, talk about the ends justifying the means...

[@almcdonald8676]

Sam agrees with him

[@seandowdle145]

As an Australian looking on i get the feeling that the Usa is transitioning into a plutocracy. The obsession with political dynasties from the Kennedy's to clintons and trump is truly bizarre

[@mrpopo8298]

Bro, we all have our issues. I see the craziness in Oz about the Abbos. That shit will ruin you. Those Abbos couldn't run a lemonade stand, let alone a modern nation like Australia. But people keep pandering to them.

[@Sheeshening]

Let’s be real, these people barely make a dent, if not for the possibility of getting office. I think the obsession is on you

[@wolfman82a]

@@mrpopo8298 you nearly sound Australian apart from the lemonade stand thing.. Ridgy didge argy bargey..

[@Malt454]

I don't think that it's transitioning; it's just that the democratic facade is now falling off. Within the structure of the Electoral College which the US has always had, it was never a democracy. The President is always elected by a minority of voters because the president isn't elected by the popular vote, regardless of what the popular vote is, and the President selects nominees for the Supreme Court. Two out of three branches of government are dominated by a non-democratic process.

[@seandowdle145]

@Malt454 true, it could be argued usa was always a plutocracy. But you guys never had this populist demagoguery, maybe you're moving into an era of political families. Its pretty clear to me that all of these wingnuts are a result of the current political system not working. How the fuck can critical national issues like gun control just get swept under the rug like it's not a thing. Any other democratic country would be heaving.

[@PoetlaureateNFDL]

The party has changed a lot. The extremists seem to be winning now. Bad sign.

[@drjerry5389]

The "Darlings" of Putin? Im not a Republican but I have Republican friends who are talking about Peace and that the money sent to Ukraine could help the American people instead of ending up in a war that will last until the last Ukrainians.

[@Grendel-td5nf]

But but but it’s only 100 billion.......

[@marnajackson9648]

Hey Sam... listen to and love and respect your opinion and insights... I wish you would listen to and have a conversation with RFK. I have listened to hours and hours of his discussions and I do not see him as a "crank". What I know is that he knows where all the bodies are buried and I see this as a pretty good reason for his being censored so vigorously. PLEASE do speak with this man as I think many would like to hear your measured opinion.

[@ruoiealpaeiout2103]

They were so good at riteous pretense that they became Magicians performing Butt Neckkid Magic.

[@SimonTmte]

18:45 I feel like this type of talk is kinda ridiculous, those in Kyiv live life as normal even if they're in war, that Ukrainians are really determinde to win the war, no compromises,..Who are we actually talking about though, is it the dead young men, their family, being forcibly dragged into the meat grinder that voice these opinions, or is it the rich isolated class in Kyiv?.

[@tylerd.5694]

I agree. Such an odd thing to say

[@raidermaxx2324]

i dont really get your point

[@kimjohnson8471]

I still love and respect Sam. If your opinions on issues are always predictable, they're not your own. I don't have to agree but I am always open to hearing varied thoughts

[@dimitrioskantakouzinos8590]

Aren't Sam's opinions as predictable as can possibly be?

[@paultardspambot]

@@dimitrioskantakouzinos8590 they consistently come from the same perspective, so in that sense yes. But Haris updates and changes his opnions based on information unlike some.

[@spiritualpolitics8205]

@@paultardspambot Oh yeah that's apparent in his diatribes about covid and reinventing the virus to score alternate-universe wins against Bret Weinstein.

[@JamesKonzek-xr5zy]

You sure don't sound like a Republican Trump supporter.

[@kimjohnson8471]

@@JamesKonzek-xr5zy Why Ty. That's the greatest compliment I've heard all year.

[@mjinba07]

Re. the Hunter laptop, granted, I didn't hear the rest of the conversation but from the comments here, I can't buy the notion of journalists giving "fair play" in covering a story regardless of there being an obvious political agenda. Doing so allows journalism to shill for whomever seeks to use it, under the cover of naiveté or "fair mindedness." Political graft is just as newsworthy and failure to identify it is one of the reasons so many Americans allow themselves to be hoodwinked by gross manipulation. It also contributes to the "both sides" mythos that every side of an argument has validity. It doesn't always. No wonder the electorate is confused in this country.

[@charlesandrews2360]

Just curious, what does, "shoring up the border" look like?

[@davecunningham579]

Thanks for being you Sam. In this landscape of people who need their own view spit back at them, it's nice to have someone honest like you (even if I disagree).

[@donbemont7901]

I enjoyed this a lot, found most of the views expressed very reasonable. One area of quibble: this ideal of unbiased, impartial news media I know that that is the way it's taught in school, but I think that people forget the extent to which this is the artifact of a relatively brief period in history. In the network television news era, it was expected that the news be objective and fair. However, that was due to the limited resource of television channels. For both legal and business reasons, the Walter Cronkites strove for impartiality (or its image at least), and Americans born into this era came to see that as a settled, even ancient practice. In truth, the network news wasn't impartial, so much as similar in their biases, which I think could very roughly be described as centrist. One could argue that this was unfair to both right and left wing Americans, and that it contributed to what was seen at the time as a crisis of apathy. But that aside, it was a stage of technological development that brought this era in, and it was a new state of technological development that ushered that era out. First cable and then digital created uncountable media outlets, and the legal and business motivations changed. Rather too rapidly for the public or any legislative body to ponder the implications. In crucial ways, we once again have the media environment of the Founders: lots and lots of news outlets, each catering to a particular audience, and supported by a political group. However, in other ways, this is an entirely different situation than that of the America experienced by Washington, Lincoln, and Teddy Roosevelt. For one thing, whatever critical thinking skills arose from widespread deep literacy have long since dimmed. For another, the speed of the news discourages reflection. For another, visual images are now among the most important containers of information; visual images are by their nature less honest, more emotional and more visceral. I understand the principle behind expecting media outlets to cover the Hunter Biden laptop, regardless of cynical timing. And I understand the political power of pointing out that they did not. However, in truth, I think that this is an appeal to have media outlets pretend that we are still under the reign of Network TV, when in truth, that king has been buried a long time now. How to respond to our new reality, I haven't a clue. But I suspect that trying to re-enact the myth of unbiased media is not going to save us.

[@zaratustra06]

Sam when will we get video podcast?

[@shaunmcisaac782]

The "immature technology" of wind power? Remind me when the windmill was invented again? There was never a serious debate that various green tech was viable, it just threatened entrenched interests. It was also not a serious debate that the cost of temperatures going up a 5F would be massive. Want direct proof? Look at the bill for turning on the AC in the summer and extend that higher bill well into the fall.

[@subcitizen2012]

I had predicted for like ten years, as a joke, that 2020 would be the year of hindsight. I had no idea or way of knowing how significant and true that would turn out to be in so many ways. The thing with the pandemic and school closures is that it's very easy to criticize from outside and in hindsight. In March 2020 covid was still an unknown. We didn't know if it was going to be SARS or ebola. And with no treatments or vaccines in sight in the moment, treating an emergency as an emergency was the right thing to do from a public health and public interest. It could've just as easily turned out to work out the other way as a public fumble and the virus more fatal to children instead of the elderly and we woopsied the schools open and were completely lax about safety guidelines. 10-25% of children could've dropped dead as we dragged our feet on closures because of "public interest." It was bad enough as it was. The people hating on the experts today would've had a whole other bone to pick with them for having done too little and not knowing an entire other future. And it's really not entirely the fault of experts in communication when no one chooses to listen to them anyway because your social media bubble tells you otherwise. Personally, the entire covid era fallout for me has been long covid mostly in the form of debilitating migraines, that thankfully seem to be subsiding now after 3 years, and not a loss of faith in institutions and experts, but a loss of faith in humanity and in Americans and American exceptionalism. Half of us are tied to a corpse in the potato sack race politically. They couldn't wrap their heads around complex things like a pandemic and virology, so they refuse to wrap their heads around simple things like wearing a damn mask, and now completely reject all notions of verifiable truth. So I refuse to play anymore, I'm tired of being patient with them and tolerating their nonsense that has only gotten worse over the decades to the point it's now threatening the political, social, and economic stability of the country and the world. I don't know what it means or how It will pan out, but their countermovements, in all respects, needs to fail miserably, flat on its face, and be rejected enmasse and wholesale by the other 2/3rds of us. Republican defeat at the polls election after election for a decade or a generation or two so long as they maintain these core tennets of xenophobia, anti truth, racial and other minority intolerance, and this free based, recycled version of ethno and cultural nationalism thet really needs to go rot in the sewers of history.

[@DY2784]

The Monsters it created took over...💩💩💩

[@bubbercakes528]

Why aren’t these conversations recorded on video? This is the year 2023. If you don’t want to actually watch it you don’t have to! 😕

[@CurriedBat]

Born in NYC and raised in MC.... damn, dude got the whole empire culture.

[@DarkestApe]

It never ceases to amaze me how American intellectuals fail to grasp the role of the USA on global politics and stability. That role being far removed from peacekeeping. ☹️

[@tcritt]

Came for the comments...

[@Jake-Day]

At this point the majority of us hate listen to Sam just to see how bad he can get.

[@tcritt]

@@Jake-Day Cope

[@thenoobassassin]

Cope lol? How does that make any sense here? Trying to copy the people that use it against you? Well you’re failing

[@billmitchell2080]

The total success of the New Deal.

[@howtheworldworks3]

46:33 No shit. Yes. If you want to actually understand the world fully you have to absolutely listen to everyone regardless if they are right or wrong so that you can actually train yourself to make the best possible choices when it comes to what is likely true and what is not.

[@TheJohnsonseviltwin]

What could go wrong to give the likes of Hitler a platform eh?

[@stephensuddick2557]

Mitch McConnell and Newt Gingrich- that's what happened to the Republican Party.

[@dangremillion]

I never felt like Fauci, the CDC, or any public health organization was ordering me what to do about any aspect of Covid. Because of the school closures, in part, my grandchilden are alive and doing very well in school. That bright lady that said she was going to vote for RFK,Jr.: maybe was not so bright regarding public health and vaccinations. Bret is a fine example of a journalist who makes a great back seat driver.

[@williamyalen6167]

Brilliant & refreshingly thoughtful conversation!! 👏

[@migarsormrapophis2755]

At some point, they switched from being anti-gay marriage to largely being pro-gay marriage. Search me how that happens.

[@Nick-Nasti]

Some viewpoints sit in the back of consciousness and are left alone. When forced to the forefront, they get reviewed and questioned. At that point, a pressing is forced to apply their moral framework to it. “Am I consistent in my view?”

[@Realist968]

Hi, I’m Sam Harris and I am a zen master except when it comes to republicans and trump. Then I’m 5 years old.

[@gabrielfox5017]

I know a guy who's still sprung on Alex Jones, and he still thinks Sandy Hook was a frame-up job.

[@tylerd.5694]

It's sad that takes like this will be his legacy when he does make good points about other things. For example, there are forever chemicals in the water which actually do mess with the body's hormones. Sam for some reason casually strawmans this by mocking Alex's famous and saying "It turns the Frogs gai"

[@geneharrogate6911]

@@tylerd.5694 Jones? _Legacy??_ Hahahahah!!!! You had me going there for a second..

[@chickenfishhybrid44]

Cool story? There's 330 million people in the US. There will always be kooks

[@Mastikator]

@@tylerd.5694 It was Alex Jones who said that the chemicals turn the frogs gay. Those are his words.

[@tylerd.5694]

@@Mastikator Does he have a point? Maybe there are chemicals going into the water that disrupt the hormonal patterns of animals? Maybe he was referring to the fact that if it so clearly affects frogs, and does it so quickly that maybe there are larger implications for humans?

[@AJ-gv2hj]

Thank you for this much clarity in a short amount of time on the cultura zeitgeist much needed

[@Eristtx]

31:50 - I remember the debate in our country. I was careful to point out that if we let only doctors and epidemiologists run the coronavirus, then we have to reckon with the fact that they see the world as an equation of one dependent and one independent variable. In short, "human health = prosperity". I - an economics graduate - was careful to point out that while human life cannot be quantified, the ideal solution from an epidemiologist's perspective is total isolation of the entire population. Even at the cost of insane inflation, unemployment, etc. I remember being "stung" by the majority opinion of my social bubble to the effect of "now is the time when, for the first time in our history, economists should shut up and leave it to people who specialize in this problem" (and like... it's true that we often pretend that economics is all that matters here, so there is some basis for that criticism). And like ... hard to argue against that. Likewise, it's hard to argue against the inherently populist claim "human life is priceless". It's technically true, it's nicely humanistic, the emphasis on values... but... realistically, we all know it's not. It just sucks to say it out loud. By "muting" the debate in this way (it wasn't censorship, I'm convinced it was done by well-meaning journalists), reasonable voices that were trying to correct it were silenced. Instead, a barrage of total nonsense ("put the disinfectant you use to wash your toilet in your veins and you'll be fine") began to bombard the public space, to which the mainstream responded by trying to aggressively promote "scientific information". But the latter was so shaky from the start that in the effort to promote it and shout disinformation, the ability to distinguish between facts, preliminary scientific opinion, etc. was lost. I.e., everything was promoted as "truth" (simplistically speaking). The second problem was that the "aggressiveness" with which the mainstream promoted this "truth" compromised it ethically and made it difficult for journalists and politicians in particular to correct their positions. Well, once it becomes polarized like that, any effort to correct the opinion of the mainstream throws you into the group of disinformationists. Where you really don't want to be. The coronavirus can be studied from many angles - but I think one of the most interesting for our future is how the media, etc. have behaved and how they have (albeit unintentionally) made it difficult for healthy debate and for other disciplines (economics, psychology, education, etc.) to have their say on the issue. // The problem was not about the failure of "journalists" or one particular group. The blame lies with all of us (at least here in the Czech Republic). Unfortunately, as a society, we still cannot distinguish healthy debate from misinformation (which is a real problem and many people believe it). // I apologize for the length and my poor English.

[@baigandinel7956]

People don't want to fight abroad for a country denigrated at home, nor do they want to spread the woke values of 2015 as the sole "American" values.

[@kaylow225]

In today's episode, Sam interviews one of the arsonists that helped light the fire.... Can we please stop giving these people lifeboats?!!

[@Thisisahandle701]

I thought this episode was on point

[@miguelvelez7221]

​@@Thisisahandle701Nah. Nothing matters that comes out of any "Movement Conservatives" mouths about their "horror" about what's happened to American politics and governance over the last fifty years when they were ALL taking part in building the MAGA monster, and worse, they were all told during those decades that the GOP and their media allies like FOX and Rush were playing with fire with the outrage and resentment farming they were doing. Stephens himself is a prime example. He still tries to lay the blame at the feet of the groups he and the Conservatives had targeted long before Trump was on the scene. He and the other "Principled Conservatives" built this monster and now they want to pretend to be shocked and appalled.

[@davidphillips8674]

A better question: what happened to you, Sam? You lost the ability to think objectively

[@Michael-kp4bd]

What happened to regular people? They just say vague stuff like this on every video, never making a SINGLE point. Just say “you fell off L + ratio” because dressing up your banal disagreement looks just as stupid. Apologies if you have real arguments. You’d just be the first person making these cookie-cutter substanceless complaints to actually back up what they mean.

[@ivandafoe5451]

@@Michael-kp4bd The "single point" made was that Harris claims to be objective when he is not. Harris provides numerous of this hypocrisy every time he speaks.

[@Michael-kp4bd]

@@ivandafoe5451 show me a clip of Sam claiming to be objective. You seem to be confusing objective facts (which Sam may use in his discussions) with some sort of claim that SAM claims to be an “objective” human. That’s a hilarious mischaracterization and by that logic you can call anyone a hypocrite for *ever* starting any fact. Good job crafting that one up

[@mclarenf2165]

The good ol days when Bret Stephens version of conservatism spreads democracy at through diplomacy and compassion. Sam's reliance on his preferred group of "experts" is such an embarrassment.

[@petersamson5407]

This tendency many Americans have of supporting the apparent contrarian, is so dumb and childish. You just need to seem stifled in a room of serious-looking people, to get a significant part of the audience on your side.

[@jamesheath7596]

Where is the devils advocate in this discussion ? Don’t interviewers do that any more ?

[@almcdonald8676]

No. Media have willingly abandoned objectivity because trump is such a threat to “our democracy”. They even said it way back in 2016

[@Grendel-td5nf]

No devils advocate needed. Bret is a republican. Didn’t you notice?😂😂😂

[@yomoms3359]

U are the new CNN!😅😅😅

[@T-41]

Lots of time spent on the pandemic- which was a hugely controversial, but came very late in the process of the creating the mess of Republican Party politics. One could make the case that the process has been going on for about 50 years,

[@zebulon9307]

I agree that there´s not ONE expert who should tell a whole country what to do. That´s the reason why there are comissions and institutes and checks and balances. But I don´t agree with those who say that EVERYBODY is his own expert on "schools" and "books" and "education" and "fire arms" and "their business" and "taxes" and whatnot, and suddenly rules and laws are all up for debate and may be followed or not. Replace "expert" with "trained, experienced professional" and you see what I mean.

[@troyzieman7177]

This is the type of conversation that podcasts are made for . It doesnt drift down these rat holes that too many podcasts do. I have thought about the Hunter Biden laptop thing . I think they are right to appoint a special prosecutor , and it should be pursued. I agree with Harris , the timing of the story and the source was shaky at best . It looked a little too convienant too me . Did Hunter use his father's influence to bolster his own career? I think it goes without saying . Context matters though . Looking at Joe Biden's family history in tegards to the people he lost personelly , can I muster some understanding why he is extra protective of Hunter ? Yes , my read on this is not active corruption by Joe Biden , rather favortism for a son that has some charachter failings to say the least . Joe loves his kid , despite him being a dufus.

[@Galdring]

Lol... You are just parroting CNN but butchering their message with inelloquence: "The timing was unfair! And it wasn't that bad anyway! Besides... Biden is such a loving father!"

[@ronaldbeamon5564]

​@@Galdring"Joe loves his crack addicted son!" 😂

[@troyzieman7177]

@avraks See this is the problem with your analysis. Anyone who disagrees with you is just a puppet of corporate media . I don't watch CNN or Fox , because they have the same biases just towards different spectrums. I made it very clear that Hunter Biden should be investigated . Didn't give him a pass . I don't know what is on that laptop , ethier do you . Yet you have arrived at conclusions . How did you do that ? Your biases . My point with Joe Biden is that he lost a lot of family to tragedy. I can understand why a father would favor a surviving son . Nowhere did I offer that as an excuse , or a free pass . Do you apply the same standard for Trump ? I have no idea . Your thinking is sloppy , your assumptions appear to be based on right wing talking points. Hunter is being investigated and where it goes is where it goes. I made that clear yet you skipped over that part because it doesn't fit your narrative

[@TenTonNuke]

They had used the same strategy successfully in the 2016 election. They made an accusation about Hillary's emails that likely lost her the election. Then when they had time to look into it, it turned out to be a nothing burger. 2020 election rolls around they tried the same thing. They made wild accusations, knowing there wasn't nearly time enough to investigate before the election, and this time the left didn't stand for it. And once again, it's turning out to be a nothing burger. I imagine right before the 2024 election, someone will "find" something shocking that can't be proven.

[@Thisisahandle701]

​@@GaldringIf CNN said that, they had a good point.

[@andrew_van_stone]

Sam was the first podcaster I ever paid a contribution towards. I really am sad that TDS appears to have had such a devastating effect on him. A great loss to us all. 😢

[@dickgoblin]

The people who mention TDS usually have a case of it themselves. The level of tint on your glasses to excuse all of the bad shit he did is unbelievable.

[@christopherhamilton3621]

😂