Why Tanking is Unsolvable in Overwatch 2

[@tiggle5485]

Somewhere in an alternate universe, we are still enjoying OW1 after they nerfed orisa fortify and sigma grasp. You don’t have to deal with an orisa you can’t headshot, or a sigma with 800hp. And when you dive them/rush them down, there’s no suzu/life grip/lamp to bail them out.

[@Kafka-Youtube]

tank werent the problem in ow1, it was the backline with the absurd AOE healing and immortality.

[@IsYouDeadass]

​@@Kafka-KZbin Some tanks were a problem. Orissa and Sigma like he said.

[@C0sm1c_Owl]

​@@Kafka-KZbin no tank as a role, just sigma and orisa, they were better at everything and did everything

[@Adventist1997]

I prefer the universe where Bap didn't exist, and Brig had healing tuned similarly to Lucio.

[@Kafka-Youtube]

@@C0sm1c_Owl both where fucked by a winston zarya since they couldnt defend themselves from any of them.

[@chuddolomite5]

Bliz said they dumbed down their game because they want casuals to have an easier time learning to play their game, but what they don't realize is a dumbed down game is not fun. Even casuals are saying it's not fun. They've lost the plot on what made this game special and fun. It's sad how out of touch they are.

[@RRRRRRRRR33]

It's idiotic indeed, every character has to be "viable" at every situation, then what is even the point of playing this game? The moba elements is what made Overwatch unique, you don't play with the stereotypical sniper, machine gun, shotgun, etc.. there's other gimmicks at the table. When the hitboxes made more sense, when you get killed by a Ashe head shot or McCree flash then headshot, those were mildly "skilled", ok, the player at least aimed, it's not cheap... but now it's the inverse, everybody are shooting bricks, Ana does a flick with the sleep and it hits every single time (especially tanks), etc.. there's zero skill ceiling, the only characters who demands a little bit more, the player can express themselves, that is Doom, Hammond, Genji and Tracer... pretty much, everyone else are braindead. It's fine to have entry level characters like Mercy, you have to start from somewhere, but to make the entire roster feels like Mercy is just dumb, not fun at all, even I was able to hit phantom headshots with Ashe playing on a goddamn couch, c'mon now

[@Backfired]

When you dumb down the game you just make it easier for better players to put in less effort and get more reward on the same people the bar got lowered for. Yep.

[@LampDoesVideogame]

I honestly would bet a $20 they go "We dumbed down the game for new people, for f2p... now it's time for the real Overwatch" as a way to mitigate backlash when they go back to 6v6.

[@RRRRRRRRR33]

@@LampDoesVideogame The marketing for the "6v6 comeback" just writes itself, Marvel Rivals will offer a really strong competition, Overwatch really don't have too many gimmicks to promote itself besides the 6v6 circus. The issue is how people are going to ridicule Overwatch even more, the game that walks in circles, the worst sequel of all times, etc, etc.. It will be interesting to watch, at this stage I am completely apathetic towards Overwatch, don't care anymore even if they return to the late 2022 balance (the best state of the game imo, only McCree and Genji were overtuned, they were firing like a machine gun, but they got nerfed at least). The ideal scenario for Team Fortress fans, on one side you have Overwatch offering 6v6, first person, role queue... at the other Marvel offers 6v6, third person, open queue. I was talking with a friend about the potential future of the subgenre, I will not be surprised if Overwatch ends up being overwhelmed, here it comes DC offering their own hero shooter to compete with Marvel, so things will become literal, the two titans who created the super hero genre as a whole, they are the ones competing for the "hero" shooter audience. And to imagine a game were you can play with Batman and Superman in first person, that would be awesome. Overwatch feels like a ant in comparison, who will give a shit about Illari when you have Marvel and DC characters?

[@MotivationalHighfive]

Let's be very aware that when we say "casuals" we mean as wide an audience as possible. Overwatch is fundamentally a fast-paced team FPS that rewards mechanical skill 1st and communication 2nd, naturally, the best players of Overwatch are generally between 16-24. Between the F2P model adoption and the launch on switch, it's easy to see that Blizzard prioritizes numbers and market capture over community engagement.

[@brycenb2994]

It’s interesting that for 6v6 to return a lot of testing and logistics are going to be expeimwnted with to get a version of 6v6 that satisfies the most people. But for 5v5 no such thing was done. They just put it in the new game and ran with it

[@castielow]

It's because they hope the data will prove that people prefer 5v5 and then they can say, told you so. They don't want to admit that 5v5 was a complete failure.

[@josephmccartney5951]

Hmmm 🤔 sounds like a certain party that likes to do that whenever facts are thrown their way. Oh wait overwatch was made in democrat land of Cali. 🤣😂 no wonder the devs can’t get off of 5v5 cause tTHEY thought it would be better. Interesting 🧐

[@SunderMun]

@@josephmccartney5951 go touch grass.

[@sswampp]

@@josephmccartney5951 Dude are you really so obsessed with politics that you see it everywhere you go?

[@Daltoniss]

@@josephmccartney5951 Brain rotted to the core goddamn.

[@rizaadon]

He's finally gonna make the why Tanks suck video 😭🙏🏼

[@rizaadon]

NOOOO THIS WAS A FEW WEEKS AGO ☹️

[@neilmallick20]

as if we need another yap video where he repeats himself, he's laid out all the problems and you can feel it when you play tank and when you play against tank. the need to balance tank to take the brunt of 4-5 other players' aggression in the neutral or poke vs. them being fairly killable in a 1v1 is impossible to balance in this asymmetric unholy combination of overwatch and dead by daylight. that's why all the supports that come out have insane mobility, because dueling the tank is simply not an option when they can use their 5 billion HP to close the gap. that's why you hear "tank diff" every game and why there's so much counterswapping, people are unhappy that the tank has so much hp and impact and can feel oppressive. i honestly felt these issues day 1 and im surprised it took the community this long to come to this conclusion, except Sam of course who got it from day 1.

[@OverWatchMenVid]

@@neilmallick20i like to watch all these videos!

[@RIP_ZYZZ1738]

@@neilmallick20where are all these weirdos hating on Sam coming from? Didn’t something happen on Twitter? 😂

[@darkvinc]

Sam needs to become an happy warrior. We won the first battle the blog is out they are testing shit out. Now is the time to cool the jets and work towards a brighter future or else they will be right about him being a rage baiter and only interested in farming "hate"

[@hillwoop9101]

Remeber when you always mostly get 4 or 5 or 6 kills when you use ultimates like blade, shatter, death blossom, grav? Now you just need only one kill from your ult and it’s considered worth it because nothing dies if you don’t have ult.

[@Wusyaname_]

I feel like that isn’t even due to 5v5. It’s more so due to immortality abilities (Bap kiriko), season 9 changes, and just people getting better over time.

[@branBRippin]

@@Wusyaname_it’s because of giant heath pools necessary in 5v5

[@cyanpile7874]

Crazy how no one wanted 5v5. Even the streamers that tried it before OW2 came out said it was a bad idea, but they still removed 6v6! And now they want to test out 6v6 before making it permanent? Why couldn't we test out 5v5 before making it permanent? Now they're backtracking, again..

[@Aw3someOpZ]

Even if you win, it’s bittersweet. Games are steam rolls or your wins feels like you barely won.

[@Lúci-o-ohs]

Well what do you want, to steamroll or barely win in a close match?

[@YMan-zo5kg]

@@Lúci-o-ohsyea wtf does this dude even mean? lol like what kind of criticism is that.

[@Aw3someOpZ]

@@Lúci-o-ohs for matches to not be obviously lopsided.

[@lifenote1943]

@@Lúci-o-ohs to barely win in a close match, closer matches are just more fun, on both sides.

[@Lúci-o-ohs]

@@Aw3someOpZ well if you barely win in a close match that is how it should be. Maybe you are just having bias in your memory where you remember a few steam rolls way more than all the other games you did. Maybe someone had walls or xim, maybe someone was smurfing if your not gm. Idk. Even in my games which can be master 2 to champion steamrolls don't really happen other than cheaters, cheating which is most games tbf so it's both teams sometimes

[@TheAjmos]

Every other match I play someone says in chat "I hate this game" and sometimes that person is me.....

[@cyanpile7874]

I always say. "Who's ready to suffer?" Because no matter how many games you play. You're always gonna have that one doomer in chat.

[@ZIPfile_]

the fking ow menu music is frying my brain

[@erjohn5404]

we are getting adhd hahaha

[@ambinub]

​@@erjohn5404 What does this mean

[@omarmohanad9342]

I was so addicted to this game now I can't even finish a single match

[@yabito]

So many factors contribute to that feeling. In my case are all the pasives, the projectile size and the play deniers (sleep dart and hack) the most annoying things currently.

[@DotADBX]

I saw the writing on the wall the moment they put heroes behind a pay wall that this game was to going to complete shit. Team 4 has always been the problem.

[@jonahp1127]

I have a theory: Bobby Kotick FORCED the devs to do 5v5 because of Valorant being 5v5. All of the terrible balancing is on team 4, but I don’t believe Team 4 made the decision organically to go 5v5. Jeff Kaplan got pissed and left because he knew it would ruin the game. And the current dev team probably can’t legally say they were forced to, so they’ve been trying their hardest to salvage 5v5 . They don’t want to feel like they wasted YEARS of their career, which is understandable, but in trying to justify the past they are not fully taking advantage of the present.

[@moonbeamz8207]

​@luiegiii because other college games were 5v5 and he wanted to standardize ow with that standard

[@buttercup_roach]

@@luiegiii easier to show stats like lower queue times (because of 1 less player needed) and increased player count (bc it went free to play) to make them look good to the shareholders, 'look shareholders were boosting our numbers and improving the product look at these numbers!', thats why the CEO would make a decision like that

[@branBRippin]

Right on the money 🎯 that greedy bastard wanted to tap into the tac shooter market and ruined a hero shooter in the process

[@JustSkram]

Why do you blizzdrones keep blaming everything other than it just being blizzard is fucking retarded? They caught lightning in a bottle then fumbled it because they don't even understand why it was successful to begin with, that's blizzard's bread and butter, just look at modern WoW for another example. The boogyman bobby is gone and the game is still awful, hell it's even worse now than it was when he was around. Stop trying to theory craft as a means of cope and just accept the fact the devs have no idea what they're doing and barely ever did. Also Jeff made a ton of mistakes, quit acting like he was some magical god.

[@ziggy2metalx720]

Back then when KarQ made the video of the strongest state of each hero but if he made the same video again now, then almost every hero would be at their strongest by a landslide in ow2

[@neilmallick20]

mercy, kiriko, and ana are probably the weakest they've ever been.

[@ziggy2metalx720]

@@neilmallick20 I could agree with Ana, kiriko doesn’t count because she wasn’t in ow1 and mercy is in a weird situation. She is bad because of the new passives and health pools but in terms of her strength, she actually has more than she did when ow1 ended. Her super jump is no longer skill and guardian angel is far easier to use than her ow1. She also has a new passive where her healing someone heals her too. Its just this format that makes the balance bad.

[@neilmallick20]

@@ziggy2metalx720 also mercy res gets indirectly buffed because she now has 250 hp so she is far less likely to die in a res, she gets her ult way faster because she has to healbot, and the HP pools of characters she can bring back has become comical (800 hp roadhog?). i actually think its quite contentious that she can bring back an entire tank and win the fight by pressing a few buttons.

[@thekleanupkrew8381]

Deleted OW2 til they give us 6v6 even just as a test. I’m tired of having my sole purpose as the tank to absorb every cooldown in the match both friendly and enemy for anything to happen. I like protecting my team, but me getting fucking blown up instantly and watching my team get rolled immediately after is not a fun gameplay loop

[@GiRR007]

Its almost like making an entire class designed not to die in a game fundamentally about being able to die multiple times was a bad idea.

[@JTMclarenF1]

I absolutely fucking LOVE these hour long hit pieces on why the current state of OW SUCKS!!!! And the fact that such a large channel is dedicated to absolutely FLAMING Blizzard has been so fulfilling. Thank you for speaking up for us Samito. Thank you for not giving up on the game. You're doing every veteran a service for fighting for the game we loved so much

[@shadezMR]

I've made a few of them. It's my vid he reviewed here.

[@nathang1206]

It just comes down to fights being essentially over if a tank dies. Whether that is because of a tank that pushes too far, healers who don’t keep the one thing that will sustain the fight alive, dps not finishing kills that tanks and support are enabling, if the tank gets killed the fight is done. With 2 tanks that was not a blanket statement truth

[@YMan-zo5kg]

Make tanks more lethal with less health.

[@ItzSath]

I flexed roles in OW1 but in OW2, i hate playing the tank role so i stopped playing tank. It is not as fun or rewarding to play tank like it was in 6v6.

[@TheChrisLouis]

Where is the link to the video you watched in this video of the youtuber speaking with only 100 subs? Hope this was an oversight as you added very little commentary to his.

[@NamhadiNdemufayo]

Yeah, mills needs to add this. Sam actually doesn't do any of the youtube stuff, it's coach_mills.

[@Lúci-o-ohs]

He put an @ when he was was talking about him having 100subs in the top left

[@shadezMR]

It's my video. Hopefully he tags me.

[@TheChrisLouis]

@@shadezMR good looking out. I wanted to sub to you. We need more creators like yourself I enjoyed the commentary quite a bit without any extra fluff.

[@shadezMR]

@@TheChrisLouis I appreciate that greatly. I've improved greatly from this video, this was actually my first. I have many videos hosting various topics, I try to create a "neutral" space for discussions to take place.

[@marvynjeanbaptiste3206]

I was playing Queen yesterday and my 2nd tank was on monkey. There was a play where. I got slept, Anti’d and woke up to an immediate hinder. If it was 5v5 I probably would’ve just quit to lobby but since I had a tank duo I ate the shit while he held the front. I can’t comprehend how people would want 5v5 when 6v6 just results in less steamrolls. It’s actually crazy how more stable the games are. You could get rolled then full hold a team

[@johannelson8277]

Looking at old highlights, I am suprised by how dangerous rein used to be, compared to how many times I have to hit ANYONE now for them to die

[@DavidSk2683]

I miss 2CP. Even losing I had fun. Push is definitely not enjoyable

[@yoboiboy4182]

I dislike both but I prefer push. I will admit that it’s hard to come back when you’re down a lot. 2CP honestly just needed to remake the maps. Getting rid of the chokes at the first points of hanamura and volskaya would’ve made them better.

[@Karthig1987]

Same lol when you eventually win it felt amazing

[@魚-c3d]

This is the kind of comment that strip the 6v6 argument of its credibility. We don't want 2CP back, at least not as they were. They'd need major changes to be remotely fun.

[@snaggiz]

Nah, 2CP was terrible unless you had solid coordination which hardly ever happens unless you stacked

[@shadezMR]

I'm still not tagged in this video. Mills....my guy.....why do you hate me so much? 😎

[@thederpydazer]

The main reason they switched to 5v5 wasn’t because there’s not enough tanks there’s just too many DPS players. I think a good solution would be to give XP boosts for playing other roles since it seems as though Role Lock is here to stay.

[@ieToastie]

Marvel Rivals is EXTREMELY FUN in my opinion and I think you all should give it a fair chance.

[@dajuanchamberlain8845]

This video would've been interesting after the recent 6v6 blog and what we now know about why 5v5 happened.

[@Swankyyz]

Ow will never change bc the correct thing to do would be go back to 6v6 but doing that would admit the last 5-8 years were a waste of time, money, and effort and we all know blizzard would NEVER do that.

[@Lanewreck]

Missing a whole other person no matter how buffed you are will not help you keep that back line alive while also contesting point. Cant be in two places at once. Its almost like tank role is missing a whole other person.

[@diogo_23d46]

In a perfect world, the Devs would have just updated the engine, changed the monetization of Overwatch 1, kept the 6v6 format and properly balanced the characters, that alone would've give them enough time to work on PvE alone. Bobby Kotick wouldn't be running Blizzard. Shareholders wouldn't be as greedy and hurried to make that cash back. The balance team wouldn't be terrible at their job as they were. But we don't live in one.

[@sp_ce.]

The problem with 20 bucks for a skin means that you can’t even use them most of the time. Buying a skin for every character will cost you over 800 dollars.

[@bazzubi]

as a casual player, back when they announced 5v5, i always said that they changed cuz they couldnt solve the issues in the tank role, it was a lame solution, like we say here in brasil, "cover the sun with a sieve". i dont even play the game anymore, i just feel that the game lost all the causality, as a main tank, the matches don't have all the magic of chatting and coordinating the team. Now its like run and survive for some characters and others (mauga) you just keep killing the joy of other people on the match. as you said, the game is in a state now it needs to fail to rise, cause its just riding the wave o new seasonal characters.

[@rustle495]

Wild they keep pumping that HP up even though they dont have like armor penetration or HP % damage of mobas and MMOs

[@Jurrian9189]

Blizz's idea of balancing centers entirely around Buff or nerf !!! When abilities are inherently busted/Anti-fun/Game breaking you either re-design them or entirely replace with a new ability !! Suz, Immortality field, Pylon etcc Buffing or nerffing the CD aint gonna fix this mess !! These abilities are bad for the game period !! Get them out of the game !!

[@kennethmartin6349]

Question, so when overwtach 1 was made it’s been said the game wasn’t designed to be what it is now. So are most of the problems stemming from leaning too much into the fps aspect? Since most people the draw is “oh I’m good at cod so I’ll queue dps and carry”. Every hero now is leaning into being a dps in that role not saying that’s a bad thing, but there’s such a over saturation they keeping trying to add higher dps heroes in each role tank and support but despite that people just don’t see the impact they can have in this and think dps is the only real carry. (I do want 6v6 back tho)

[@shanks3535]

5v5 is so bad I am a lot like the guy in this video too I’ve been playing since like November 2016 and have sure hated the game but never wanted to just not even play for like a month until now. I just played a 6v6 scrim after taking a break and and it was the most fun I’ve had on Overwatch in years. I don’t even want to play 5v5 anymore it’s such a worse experience to play that it hurts to think I knew it would be a failure when it was announced before ow2 launch

[@Dmanbradley]

The main problem with LFG was that it actively worked *against* the endorsement system. You can only endorse someone once, and every match that you don't get endorsed decays your endorsement rating. So playing 5 matches with a group you mesh well with reduced your endorsement rewards in exchange for better teammates. The whole point of a higher endorsement rating is proving that you are a good teammate, so it makes no sense for these two system to fight each other like that. If I remember correctly, you could even specify a minimum endorsement rating for people joining a group. People stopped using groups to maximize wins and rewards. If they added a rule to endorsement system that only decays your endorsement if someone on your team *could* endorse you but chose not to OR gave you automatic endorsements if no one leaves the group after a match, then LFG would have seen use again. Also, quick play groups should just get to stomp solo players. You got harder games if you were in a group, so anyone wanting to sweat less would avoid LFG as well. If you lose everytime there is a 3 or 5 stack from LFG in your match, you would be more likely to dip your toe into playing with groups and learning how to fit into a synergistic team comp. From there, the community as a whole would be better inside and outside of groups at working together and using voice chat constructively (in theory).

[@AmeerMaybe]

Honestly, deleting sombra will fix the game

[@Xvtronn]

Yeah that's not enough to do anything

[@donaldjgumpofficial5754]

It wouldn't fix everything alone but it would help a lot. Actually making her a support is better than deleting though.

[@erjohn5404]

"For overwatch to succeed it has to fail" - samito 2024 I couldn't agree more, blizzard needs to learn.

[@JollyJester]

You know the thing I hate is that I feel like when they bring back 6 v 6 they are going to half ass it and then say looks guys it didn’t work

[@AimRobot]

Push maps also sucks because it feels like no matter who is pushing, you are in the same area all the time. On 2 CP you can design the map so some heroes that suck on attack/defend at point 1 is good on point 2, but they barely tried to do that. It also took them ages to just put in some anti respawn run in delay. Solution was simple add increase death timer on people that die fast coming out of spawn. We also know the only reason they are afraid of 6v6 is that they dont want to confirm that Overwatch and Overwatch 2 is the same game and they just screwed customers over.

[@Johnnyhitman411]

Over the life cycle of OW2 we’ve basically got a new dev team, basically every persons been swapped out

[@HikoriFPS]

killing hitscan heroes with insane falloff but making bullets bigger was definitely pushed through the patches by a potato.

[@thebandit6886]

They have such a obvious hitscan bias while projectile heroes get left in the dust 🤷‍♂️

[@Lúci-o-ohs]

Killing hitscan? They love having the hitscans the strongest the most

[@Vertebrated]

I like the small channels are getting some time to shine

[@daniellovisa21]

great sound production in this video. voice sounds rly good

[@stitchperlo9639]

most of the deep friends I have made in my life and who I still speak to and play other games with was with lfg, it was just a good feature, some people are like "get friends" or just straight up dont give a shit, but it was a good social thing to use thats it like meeting people before the game knowing how people would play it was great, I liked searching for a duo tank with this too!

[@frostphoenix8256]

Early LFG was the most fun era of Overwatch for me. Problem was you quickly started seeing stacks of 5 smurfs boosting a Mercy and Blizzard refused to do anything about it. Punishing people for playing with their friends is a quick way to kill your user base.

[@matthewbrears2129]

When in doubt, make an ability that gives over health, which is the most unsatisfying/unnoticeable mechanic in the game

[@bruhmoment6493]

I came back to overwatch after a year and it feels worse than ever. Games are solely dictated by whos tank is better, or on the correct pick and it feels like support has the sole purpose of making sure dive dps and the enemy tank player don't have fun.

[@joshuabarnes1486]

I would actually play this game if the LFG function was still there. Every match is so toxic or completely void of interaction that making friends in match is near impossible. No one talks in VC or chat, everyone hates it so they're either not talking or in a discord call with their friends that are playing better games lol. The community is kind of all this game has left and it's in the worst state I've ever seen it in.

[@fettbub92]

Shadez getting recignized by Samito, hells yeah.

[@therealdeniedgift]

Alright heres my hottest take ever: 2cp was the arcade version of comp where you just flip a coin and just try something fun because it needed either extreme creativity and teamwork to cap first or the complete opposite. Either or, it was a lot more fun stalling 2nd than getting the robot on push taken back and now you just spawned 3 miles away from the team fight because the robot passed the middle...i feel like 2cp had WAY better map designs ESPECIALLY Anubis. I liked how fast most games would be. Now each game feels or IS 40 minutes long and i can only play 3-4 games in a session with respect to queue times (which dps queue times for me are 6+min this past week)

[@X-EN7171]

Please play The Finals, that game is so underrated it hurts and it's got one of the most consumer friendly systems I've seen in a game like that on top of genuinely being so much fun. You unlock all your gear purely through gameplay, and there's so much player expression through your options and customization. It hurts that it's not more popular.

[@MatheusFreitas-wz3ii]

A monetização é totalmente predatória, o passe é caríssimo no meu país e são quase todas recolors fora que as skins do OW1 são postas na loja pra comprar com dinheiro real, ou seja se vc não jogou OW1 ou jogou mas não conseguiu pegar a skin se quiser agora tem que pagar por ela no preço cheio

[@Cashmerekat996]

Where is the link to the original???

[@Mikuroko69]

42:42 Man i feel bad for that whole interaction. LW dash, health pack, dash, pedal, nade, sleep, dead. Trading the 1tank for 1 of the 2 supports.

[@ynybody1382]

The format problem is a result of them trying to solve the stalling problem, which is a result of nearly every new hero needing to add a new mechanic to the game - goes all the way back to Ana and her antiheal, which required ways to deal with it because of how strong that mechanic was, and a dozen heros later the game becomes very slow. Nearly every character added since launch of OW1 has this problem. OW doesn't get fixed with any amount of balance patches and format changes, you have to be willing to take away the reason why people love their characters - ana antiheal, sombra hack, baptiste lamp, kiriko suzu, etc. If you want to experiment with these sorts of mechanics, they should be part of specific maps (and possibly these maps removed from comp). Obviously this sort of solution would be wildly unpopular and won't happen, but I think that just means OW is just gonna die a slow death.

[@chickenflex4882]

i used to play ow religiously, ow2 came out and the first day i fell out of love with it and its never been then same, devs/marketing team is clueless money hungry rats

[@niteblooded]

Not cope I legit HATED 2CP. People can like what they want but I HATED 2CP. Won’t say I like Push but my mental isn’t trashed like it was when I saw I was loading into a 2CP. I will also point out that 2CP maps were the big reason people wanted Map Ban. It was either stuck at a choke or snowballing. The 2CP maps were the biggest reason for one sided games. That said 5v5 feels like nothing but one sided games. (Win or lose)

[@MendozaQFT]

My issue w OW is how tilting it is. Trying to random role were 1 game where a teammate throws or is just bad. Watching that skill bar go down. I can play Pubg for 7 hours straight kicking butt or getting my butt kicked and I can still be in a good mood and squadies will still laughing in discord . 1-2 games of overwatch and I want to smash my monitor, and uninstall it. No other FPS, moba, BR can bring the infuriating rage that OW can bring. One of my co workers who’s played off and on since OW1 release….literally will walk in and say uninstalled not touching it for 2 months, and everyone (20 ppl at my work 15 pc game) and everyone knows he is talking about OW, and the rest of us kinda feel the same.

[@Karatarari]

So funny thing, Final Fantasy 14's PvP Gamemode that dropped with Endwalker and replaced another Gamemode is so close to being Push that its comical, and if the balance for Crystal Conflict(The gamemode in question) wasn't a mess it would actually feel like a better iteration of Push than what Overwatch 2 has. Push in FFXIV is 5min, the maps are dinky but still reasonably sized, most have gimmick events(which I don't really like but it adds some variety to gameplay.) tied to each specific map, and the Crystal pushes reasonably fast but gets held up at the Checkpoints but retain their progress indefinitely if the crystal is moved off the checkpoint. In Overtime, the Checkpoint progress is much faster for potential comebacks too.

[@frostphoenix8256]

I loved 2cp. It was all the buffs to spam and Bap/Brig/Sig that ruined it, not the game mode or the maps. Monkey, Rein, and even the 'High Horse' strats were all penetrable.

[@n3gativ3z3r0]

My issues with tank play is that youre basically dumped any and all abilities to be disabled. Once youre hit with more than 2 abilities youre toast. Team fight done. Over. This then makes the team fights focus more on who can hit the tank with these abilities and not even try other roles to hit. Then. Counterplay. Tank in its current state is mystery heros the entire game. Every single game. This makes the experience really repetitive and unenjoyable. This trickles down the ladder to other roles. You then have to race to see who can hit the tank with all they got.

[@Redietu]

The benefit of 6v6 was one tank could off set for one tank performing a little worse. One tank performing worse in 5v5 is an insta loss.

[@WackyToaster]

I agree on 2cp. The game mode absolutely had issues, but I feel like just straight up canning it wasn't the move either. I don't think the mode was unsalvageable. Most seem to agree that horizon was a terrible map but volskaya was pretty good. I simply miss the variety it provided either way. Sure it wasn't my favorite game mode but still, so many maps just got lost. One of the biggest mistakes was to add characters that seemingly existed for the purpose of countering something. Brig was added to counter dive because dive was strong at that point. Bap was added so he can lamp grav combos. The whole rock paper scissors philosophy backfired hard. They powercrept the options till it went from "rock paper scissors" to "rock paper scissors gun nuke" and then they ran out of counters. How do you counter immortality? Also there are characters that lack meaningful interactions because of that. Dva and pharah are two of those. Dva just flies at you, you literally have no counterplay to that. You can't shoot her because of matrix, even if you can, you'll never kill her because she got gigabuffed thanks to 5v5. It's miserable to play against. Unless you have some high mobility or get massive peel, you just get insta deleted. And pharah is in this odd spot where she has some good counters on paper, but she still completely shuts down half the dps cast just by existing. They don't have any meaningful interactions with pharah other than going back to spawn and switching to a hitscan. And even then she is a nightmare to play against. Even widow has that problem. She just stands in uganda, and you know it, and you cannot do anything. You literally cannot peek a good widow but there are times where you just have to and pray she'll miss. Most of these issues are made worse because of 5v5. I'd argue 5v5 can technically work, BUT they'd need to massively rework the entire game to the point where it's probably not overwatch anymore. The game was designed to be 6v6 and that design is deeply rooted in the core of the game. You cannot just remove a character slot and have it work out well. It's like playing chess without pawns, it kinda works but it's also extremely stupid.

[@fockythefrog8516]

I'm having fun tanking in Marvel Rivals

[@levipaswaters3933]

I'll come back when 6v6 does

[@evandunn9942]

Anyone know if they originally went to 5v5 because the player count was dropping in OW1?

[@valascazielterrazin7272]

It is rather nuts. I recently returned to the game and though I have always loved playing Reinhardt, I do see the issues. I was in a match versus a Roadhog who was just getting thwacked by me, slammed into a wall, Fire struck, shot by my buddys Tracer..pops the bottle and still there. Don't get me wrong, I get hit with a ton of stuff too, but I do agree its exorbitant. And I miss having a co-tank for the clutch plays. Zarya bubbling me so I don't die charging an exploding D.Va out of the point.😊

[@ETJakaEli]

tanks are soo strong now its insane

[@Prestiginii]

3:13 is so true bro. I’ve been noticing all these random creators getting views for saying the game sucks. Because it’s true!

[@superdope0078]

In retrospect since the push mode was supposed to replace 2cp, they should have reworked the 2cp maps into push maps.

[@frostphoenix8256]

I agree that the big problem with push is the maps, but I also would prefer if we ditched the stupid walls and just measured wherever the bot was standing at the end, in a true tug of war. Fighting from behind with the enemy spawning 3 feet away just feels awful.

[@GAVIN760101]

6:07 Well Sam I hate to say that but after lunch this game all they do is consistanly failed so I don't think failed is the solution they need to sucees, and make it quick. Because they already broken everyone's expection multiple time

[@JordanYee]

One of the reasons I'm so adamant about 6v6, is that half of the shit they promised in order to make 5v5 work never materialized, but the other half, they accomplished BUT WALKED BACK ON. Like, if that isn't the death knell for 5v5, what is?

[@tjf73]

Another 50 mins of this...geez man

[@discoalice]

I just came back to OW after not playing since the release of OW 2 and this game must be one of the most stressful experiences I ever went through, playing tank is miserable especially. Even when you win you feel nothing but misery lmao

[@milo4075]

Man sonic unleashed had a beautiful ost.....

[@Dezatron-]

Also, people don't know this, but apex and fortnite have really good incentives for players to spend a lot of money. Apex has its events/heirloom/prestige skins, while fortnite has a lot of skins cheap enough or songs to purchase under 10 dollars. Even then, every game has bundles, but rarely overwatch and still the fact that they won't give people the battle pass for free for the next season if you buy the premium pass and complete it.

[@rangerguy]

bro reminded me of bunker comps on 2cp and im tweaking from remembering the experience

[@mafikdew78]

This guys rant about ball, queen and mauga are why I love Ramattra. He doesn't power up the team it's all about him killer robot mode

[@Grux_ASG]

They reworked rein to work in 5v5. As you can see he has 2 firestrikes.

[@OverWatchMenVid]

More yap videos Sam i love to listen while I’m working

[@DirtyCommieMedia]

You know, the common argument against LFG is that no one used it. Which, I'm not surprised that no one used LFG in a dying game where people had spent years building up friendships with people they wanted to play with. However, the point of OW2 was to revitalize the community and bring in new players. Wouldn't it have been nice for all those new players to have had somewhere to find other new players without having to hope that matchmaking rng didn't screw them over? Not only that, but LFG is literally the only place to find guiders, people who will join up with you and teach you uow to play the game. That entire scene is effectively dead without LFG, and in a game as complicated as OW, it was SEVERELY neeeded.

[@Canadianbacnn]

I realised on day 1 of ow2 release that it was only done for que times. The game felt so ripped apart it didnt make any sense to me why they kept trying to cover it up to make it seem like it was something they wanted to do.

[@brandonc8892]

Push is 100% a downgrade from 2CP. I LOVED 2CP maps so fucking much

[@gi1kxsy908]

playing tank with dps that never hit shots and thus not using their passive makes the game so miserable, u can usually tell in the first fight if ur teams doing less than their cuz boi u feel it

[@LinvestigatesMC]

Dont forget raid boss zen in ow1 with armor packs and sym shield

[@Xvtronn]

And proper balance and competence would solve that. But they're decided to ditch their game and make ow2 instead.

[@filipomerovic5126]

And old sym and torb existed so you could combine 75 shields from shield generator, 75 armor from torbs armor pack, 75 from brigs repair pack, 150 from brigs rally. So at one point you could have 575 zenyattas with shields going after the armor. With this a tank like dva (600hp) could have 975 health. And also brig's armor was bugged so it was twice as effective then normal armor♥️

[@DJFlare84]

I honestly wonder if 5v5 would work if they traded one of the supports for a second tank. Go 2 Tank, 2 DPS, 1 Support?

[@IncredibleMet]

Have you forgot that the REAL reason for GOATs and double shield was tank synergy???

[@sadasd-n2f]

It wouldnt work

[@donovan4222]

1-3-1 would be better

[@KhidStoop]

​​@@IncredibleMet it was bap snd brig really

[@RRRRRRRRR33]

That generates the same issue of overburden the player. Playing Marvel Rivals right now, it's actually a good feeling when you can't push through playing 2-2-2, then you go... ok, I gonna pick Hulk to harass their shielding tanks, turn into 3-1-2, break the defense and get the point, switch back to dps and continue the match. Open queue can become a freak show, but it's cool how you can change the dynamics on the fly, even go Peni Parker as the solo tank + 4 healers, it worked, Peni just camping in the paint while everybody else healed her from range. Overwatch don't offer that kind of dynamic anymore, every match feels the same, a tug of war, however kills the solo tank or the support will take a huge advantage, leading to a team stomp, etc.. at least in 2-2-2, you have more variation, the death of Winston doesn't mean the skirmish was over, Zarya was still alive and kicking, holding things together until Winston could dive again, etc..

[@DavidSk2683]

Bring back Rank display, borders, and hero cards

[@SunderMun]

Esparancia, I agree completely. I like Esparancia a lot, but the other Push maps? 🤮🤮 And Flashpoint is just hot trash, with Clash not seeming too interesting either. I'd rather Assault with Paris/HLC than any of these game modes' maps. I never wanted them to get rid of the mode, even though I despised Paris's design; I genuinely thought it was salvageable. Jade skins being ugly isn't a hot take; I use it with the green Venture skin and literally nothing else because it works not no skins lmao

[@neilmallick20]

flashpoint is pretty doo doo but I thought Clash was actually really fun cause you get more interesting fights since it's rarely strictly 5v5. I still think Assault/Payload hybrid is the best game mode.

[@whydude7583]

Is this a reupload?

[@jeremyashcraft2053]

At this point, I have 0 faith in the devs. They have shown to have poor judgement over and over and over again. They are incompetent and I think they just do not care, to be frank. Not a single person on the dev team is passionate about the game, they are just clock in clock out devs, doing nothing but the bare minimum to maintain employment and get their paycheck. OW is just corpo-slop at this point. 0 passion, 0 vision; It will never be what the fans keep hoping it will become.

[@Luke42652]

I think 6v6 open queue is probably the answer. Heroes need to either have sustain (higher hp) and low damage, or low hp (glass cannon) and higher damage. Risk vs reward. When I say sustain, I don’t mean like the giga tanks today, more like the original OW1 tanks. I think one valuable thing from OW2 5v5 experiment is that not all tank heroes need to be 200hp. I think some “dps” heroes can be a little tanky, but they need to have lower damage than heroes with smaller health pools. Any type of immortality ability needs to be removed. Positional and CD mistakes need to be punished. There should never be an ability in the game that denies a player from punishing those mistakes. Beyond that, we could go a couple routes. Hero banning is popular idea, but I honestly don’t like taking away player choice. And if only works in comp. It doesn’t fix casual balance. I think the next best thing is team resource limits. Let’s say a max health pool for the team. That could either prevent you from selecting heroes that would exceed that (which limits hero choice; not sure I’m a fan), OR applies a penalty that reduces heroes health. I kind of like it because you can still pick the heroes, but if you pick all “tanks” it reduces the health of each hero to meet the maximum. It becomes a trade off. You lose health and don’t get the damage benefit of picking a hero that leans more toward damage.

[@Lúci-o-ohs]

About the 2cp thing, think about how awful bap illari or bap brig would be on those maps in 5v5, it is awful enough normally

[@ryannkeenan9528]

My issue with playing tank is it doesn’t matter how well or poorly you play, it’s just a bad time. If I play really well, I’m countered by everyone on the other team making the game miserable If I just play poor to decently, I’m blamed by my team. There is no winning

[@kevinadams1953]

i used to think the queue times was dumb till you think about quick play then overall its a ton better from having 5 min qp queues that shit was tough

[@davidcreevey9171]

Samito... your killing my attention span with 2 sets of music going at the same time....

[@josephdavis3472]

Push I feel hasn't had a chance to really compare to 2-CP because it's only been in 5v5, which has it's own problems. Drawing a conclusion that it's bad is therefore a step too far I think.

[@Cyber_p3nguin]

I prefer 6v6, but we shouldn't use arguments that aren't mathematically sound. The 32% drop from 25 to 17 per 10 was during OW1, which could be a variety of reasons. Was that taken during pre role lock and pre brig? Because a lot of ranks went without having a tank or support in a significant amount of their games. Having no tanks or supports would lead to a higher elim per 10. 2-2-2 would see a drop because it's a guaranteed minimum amount of HP/healing as a team, which wasn't a guarantee before. We haven't seen a % reduction in elims from Double Shield to OW2, because as you said Double Shield was 17 and OW2 is 17. I would be curious about the time spent with a debuff or hard cc per player. In OW1 there was more hard CC (brig, cas, mei, ana, sig rock/ult, junk trap, rein(ult)), and there were still discord and anti nade, dynamite. In OW2, we have more cleanses to use on people (2 free use Zar bubbles, Kiri cleanse) and heroes with their own personal cleanse (moira, reaper, venture, mei, sombra, echo(ult), zen(ult), Doom(ult)), however we have some hard cc and now more debuffs too. Anti, Sleep, Discord, Mei slow/freeze, Sombra (hack, virus, emp), rein (shatter), dps passive, sig rock/ult, queen ult, doom punch/ult, Mauga stomp/ult/secondary fire, etc... Granted there is one less tank, but most of these aren't applied by a tank. So instead we really have slightly fewer instances of some of these being combo'd, and way more instances of these being applied and way fewer chances for it to be mitigated. I think this would be a better route than just elims per 10, because it isn't just fewer instances of getting the dopamine hit(elim), but way more instances of receiving a negative feeling/punishment.