Etching Silicon with Plasma - Reactive Ion Etching (RIE)

[@alihouadef5539]

When a KZbinr (with all due respect, that you deserve) have a better fab than your university.

[@Maxjoker98]

Awesome as always. This is probably KZbin's most underrated channel - Who else could claim they have a chipfab at home *and* is making great KZbin videos. Keep it up!

[@arianagm2332]

Please share who is making chipfab at home and making bad KZbin videos! Thanks!!! 🤣

[@RM360CR]

Here we go with the underrated comments OK how can something you like be underrated also not alot people are going to be interested in plasma etching so you can only consider something underrated if you are waaay to concern on what other think about you and there is a name for that sort of people.

[@rakinkazi9780]

This guy will singlehandedly solve ongoing the chip shortage.

[@Roxor128]

Only if he gets a lot of other people following his lead!

[@HouseMusicLover001]

​@@Roxor128I'm in, I got hooked by semiconductor manufacturing

[@HuygensOptics]

Thanks Sam for yet another great video with a lot of high-quality info. About working cleanly: I found it to be really difficult to get to an acceptable particle level in a garage. But for proof of principle, it is really not that big of a problem. If you put a lot of devices on a wafer, there is generally always one that works! Cheers.

[@Pyrothorgrabmyhammer]

How many device do you fit on a wafer in your garage?

[@neslearns4912]

I work as an equipment engineer performing technical repairs and maintenance on RIE devices, sputtering systems, wafer plating systems, mask aligners, spin and spray coaters, all sorts of vacuum pumps, as well as evaporation deposition as well onto quartz wafers. This is absolutely incredible, Sam. This video on a homemade RIE system is amazing. We also use measurement boards for reading the frequency before and after etching. Your optical spectrometer is something I haven’t used before. The RGA instrument works great for detecting gases and leaks as well. You are brilliant, Sam. Again, outstanding work that you’ve done here.

[@nathan584]

This is so incredible ur making ic's in ur garage and it's insane

[@prakharmishra3000]

Companies run out of chips due to shortage This guy: Imma make my own in the garage

[@RaphaelSt-Gelais]

Great video! I show it in my grad course every year. It illustrates plasma physics better than any video I found with an actual nanofab etcher.

[@JoaoBarbosa1996]

This is ridiculously awesome. Not even at work, our RIE has endpoint detection...nor did I knew that was a thing. Absolutely amazing work

[@jotapeuve]

Dude... I had never heard of you before. I ended up here because I was looking for some explanation of how RIE works and your video just blew my mind. I never thought someone could be that resourcefull. I'll stick around. Thank you so much for the effort you put into this and keep it up!

[@paulodpereira]

It's nice to see a new video. I feared you gave up on this.

[@poptartmcjelly7054]

a man does not simply give up after building a home chip fab.

[@SamZeloof]

First

[@kentvandervelden]

First like

[@Joemama555]

lolz!

[@LightningHelix101]

You have taken the highest seat for yourself

[@SixOhFive]

your the man!

[@ecxone87]

Been working on multimillion $ etchers for a long time this is cool as hell. You will make a company very happy one day and fill your walls with patents.

[@bignope5720]

alright, how long until you start taking orders? i have some ASIC designs to try out..

[@ЕгорК-ж6о]

Me too need to start to compete with Broadcom and Mellanox (NVidia now)

[@HouseMusicLover001]

@me in a couple of years, I plan on doing the same thing as him

[@s.stefan6257]

being an electrical engineering student and watching Sam is a real inspiration and motivation source

[@gsuberland]

Really nice work! Good to hear about some of the intricacies and quirks that you had to work around. A lot of places cover the overview of the process and the successful routes, but it's rare to hear about all the little details and implementation issues that crop up along the way.

[@lynspyre]

Awesome to see you still working on silicon etching. Your videos are great!.

[@bryanbrown9506]

how long until it can make an stm32 replacement?

[@BrotherCreamy]

Asking the important questions.

[@trep2pandai]

it's anytime soon of there is investor 😅😅😅

[@Michael-bh9ss]

Just started to work in a fab and.... all those particles from your breath onto those poor wafers!!!! Aweaome setup! Keep it going!

[@BarbellBinks]

luckily, garage projects don't require contamination free manufacturing :)

[@Piipolinoo]

Dude, amazing project, amazing video! I'm so happy to have found your channel and I couldn't be more envious about your lab :) Keep up the amazing work!

[@AndrewZonenberg]

Have you considered scrubbing exhaust before venting it outside, just to be a good neighbor? Not that you're producing a large amount of gaseous waste but polluting less is always good.

[@SamZeloof]

Yeah I’d like to build a burn-box, basically pass the exhaust thru a quartz tube that’s at like 1000C and it decomposes everything

[@PedroDaGr8]

@@SamZeloof That should do OK to break things down pretty well. Simply running your gas through wet NaOH will do a good job at scrubbing HF and other reactive fluorides: NaOH + HF --> NaF + H2O. To take care of F2, adding sodium sulphite will help improve efficiency. Alternately, the use of a solution of Ca(OH)2 has the benefit that it precipitates the fluoride as a harmless CaF2 salt.

[@Finlaymacnab]

Recommend scrubbing the exhaust gas. Heaven forbid somebody gets a good whiff of it. If you're looking for a new project, I think interference lithography might interest you. It can generate metamaterials with features sizes of around 100nm. With multi-beam setups the possibilities are endless. Meta optics are fascinating. You're a super lucky guy to have so much gear! Where do you get it all?

[@BreakingTaps]

Outstanding work as always, always a huge inspiration to watch! I had previously assumed RIE would be too complicated, with too many nasty gasses involved, to be done at home. Clearly I was wrong! Surprisingly simple setup and seems very doable as long as you have enough knowledge to e.g. not blow up the pump. Really great stuff :) Is the glovebox just for chemical containment, or does it also double as a clean box (filtered air, etc)? Edit: oh, what's the etch rate like? nm/s?

[@SamZeloof]

Thanks i always enjoy when you make a new vid too! Really want an AFM, I tried to buy an ICSPI probe to build a custom controller but they refunded the order I guess because they dont want people doing that. RIE is super doable at home, all the gasses here are safe (SF6, CHF3, CF4), I think its just the ones to etch metals (HBr or Cl2 for aluminum etch) that are really bad. Etch rate is approx. 100nm/min. The glovebox is just a fume hood but i would like to add filters and positive pressure

[@BreakingTaps]

​@@SamZeloof 😂 Haha yeah, I could see them not wanting that. :) Lemme know if you ever want something scanned, happy to help out! I have it pretty permanently setup on my desk now so it's easy to pop a sample on to scan. Where do you go about finding SF6 et al? I suspect my local welding place doesn't carry more esoteric gasses like that :( And that's pretty fast etching all things considered! I assume the depth is mostly limited by how quickly the photoresist is chewed up? Any plans to try DRIE? Bosch process doesn't seem too much extra work, albeit another gas to track down (and probably a lot of nuance in the details, nothing ends up being easy :) )

[@dandan-gf4jk]

@@BreakingTaps Is SF6 strictly required? I remember looking through doi.org/10.1117/12.2266715 and there is no mention of it so it might be possible to do without it. It's somewhat easy to synthesize CHF3 and to a lesser extent CF4 using HF. Don't you have a chemistry background? Maybe it's time for another change in your content :P

[@BreakingTaps]

@@dandan-gf4jk Interesting! Not sure, I'm only vaguely aware of the details to be honest (never looked too closely, assuming it would be too hard to do at home :) ). Will do some reading! And my background is in cell biology, so just enough chemistry to know I'm quite bad at it haha. 😇

[@dandan-gf4jk]

@@BreakingTaps Well you're not alone in that thinking as fluorine chemistry isn't exactly the friendliest (especially to an amateur). But a quick look at wikipedia, SM, and patents should give you a good idea about what is possible and what isn't. That said most patents for SF6 required unobtanium catalysts and working with SF4, the alternative being burning stochoimetric amounts of sulfur and elemental fluorine, haha. CHF3 is by far the easiest, I'll give it a go myself and my chemistry background is nonexistent so you should be good.

[@nicolasriva7605]

Impressionnant !👍 Nico from France

[@raymondwright]

Dude that's amasing Never thought that it is possible to make plasma etching in a garage

[@douro20]

CF4 is also used as a low-temperature refrigerant gas (R-14). Large amounts of it are produced as a byproduct of aluminium refining using cryolite.

[@Cas1O]

Not only awesome engineering, but very clear explanation + video content. Sam was right, before the explanation all the hardware was intimidating. After the explanation, far more interesting than intimidating! I love the fact that Sam went into some of the sourcing and build details. I'd be interested in a companion video about how Sam arrived at his design and what the mental and research process for sourcing the hardware and equipment. I imagine a lot was incremental and I'm interested in that process.

[@SteveAB4EL]

If this doesn't work out, you could switch goals to laying down teflon coatings on frying pans.

[@g.d.8065]

That idea to etch until a certain spectrum line reaches a certain level for consistency seems roughly equivalent to "bake until golden brown".

[@Martinit0]

More like "bake until it smells right"

[@sashimanu]

“Bake until golden brown” seems to be another viable means of endpoint detection by use of optical interferometry to determine feature thickness

[@BarbellBinks]

this "bake until golden brown" is actually a very frequently used method to endpoint etch process steps :)

[@Alexander_Sannikov]

6:15 why do some areas of the spectrum look vaguely periodic with ~10nm period? i'm asking because we've seen those patterns before, specifically in a sputtering chamber and I thought it was a spectrometer measurement bug, but you have the exact same thing can it be that diffraction in some thin film is killing certain wavelengths? if so, this layer thickness has to be around 10nm, but I'm not sure which material it would be.

[@Muonium1]

could be either thin film effects of unintended coating on the inside of the FS window interfering with a continuum spectrum from a hot surface, or rovibrational /vibronic coupling in a low temperature discharge where molecules are still present. Basically the electronic transitions in a molecule are coupling to the vibrational modes which are of course also quantized, and getting smeared out in a periodic way because the electron energy levels are splitting. I think this might actually just be nitrogen seen here. Edit: ya it's def an N2 discharge. search for first and second positive systems in molecular nitrogen discharges.

[@Alexander_Sannikov]

@@Muonium1 the interesting part is that the other similar sputtering spectrum that i was referring to, was specifically measured for hydrogen and it did look very similar, but it was not present with some other gasses. so i'd have assumed it's a black body spectrum filtered by interference pattern, but it would not explain why other gasses don't have it. so yeah, I think your plasma coupling hypothesis is more likely

[@Muonium1]

@@Alexander_Sannikov molecular H2 discharge spectrum should show a very distinct UV continuum and Fulcher bands around 600nm -both from rovibronic coupling-, and the prominent Balmer alpha and beta lines from the dissociated monoatomic excitation.

[@alexkart9239]

Hey, Alexander, do you working at Grinding Gear Games? really?

[@Alexander_Sannikov]

@@alexkart9239 yeah, why?

[@LightningHelix101]

This is your 3rd coolest vid imo. The initial transistor doping and the Op amp will be hard ones to beat, but your editing and focus on reproducibility were on point. Machined parts >> salvaged parts. Makes it feel way more sustainable

[@Skunkhunt_42]

Whats the RF for? Great content btw, next Applied Science- i can see it now

[@SamZeloof]

RF makes plasma

[@Skunkhunt_42]

@@SamZeloof oh dope! Thanks for saving me some googling! I work in high vac but not the realm of semiconductor. I see all the vendors selling RF stuff and never asked but been curious

[@Panjok7]

RF = radio frequency

[@erikburman530]

Absolutely amazing!

[@ahmedsaeed8751]

This boy Will have a great impact in humanity in the future

[@Shreyam_io]

great work sam, you remind me of the Applied Science channel...

[@PatrickCalhoun-b3s]

Absolutely wild. Great job and thank you.

[@Ant0ine64]

I always like watching a new video of the styropyro looking guy doing some applied science stuff with plasma vacuum and big science gear

[@joewiseguy1159]

I've been doing my own research on the chip shortage, and thought surely there is here someone building chips at home here in the states.... Tada 🎉 ! I'm just starting to learn about fab process and your videos are a great help ! I will definitely be visiting your Patreon . Keep up the good work.

[@excitedbox5705]

We need more videos. Just imagine how much funding you would have if you built up this channel with weekly/daily videos. ;) So many things people want to see. Making transistors, etching shapes, mems, mirror coatings, microfluidics, CNTs, the list is endless.

[@laharl2k]

How long until you can start competing with TSMC?

[@rakinkazi9780]

Fancy seeing ya here. I think I used to see you commenting on NurdRage's videos back in the day.

[@laharl2k]

@@rakinkazi9780 im subbed to nurdRage so most likely it was me.

[@dougabugg]

Yes! This is SUPER exciting, can't wait to see what you make in the future!

[@jonathanrodriguez2245]

Great video. I'm interviewing for a semifab position doing dry etch and for studding this helped me alot!

[@thetruthexperiment]

Sick music! When the plasma moves with the magnets, are the particles flowing or… what?

[@corwinweber693]

Nice setup. I'm actually interested in coming at this from another direction. 3d printing on this scale with various materials using plasma sputtering. Still trying to work out the details on how it would work, and hoping to find some way to do it that doesn't involve doing it in a vacuum.

[@__-nd4hf]

Did you measure the etching speed? It is usually the point of competition on the industrial RIE machines, wonder how comparable is that. Also, how is the surface uniformity? Had quite a time with spikes on etched surface with GaN, probably Si is much better with that.

[@tanner3801]

So your bias voltage isn't controlled relative to your plasma density. Do you plan to incorporate a separate RF coupling (capacitive or inductive) dedicated to excite the plasma while the ground electrode is coupled to your separate bias RF? It would require more work and equipment i.e. a langmuir probe and impedance matchers... but would be interesting to see that done at a home/garage fab

[@jean-francoiscaron5706]

How did an individual youtuber get a Baratron capacitance manometer? I ordered one when I was at Fermilab just a few years ago and I had to sign all sorts of export control documents promising I wouldn't tell Iran and North Korea how to build one.

[@kopaka647]

I found one in the trash a few years ago.

[@AA-gl1dr]

eBay ;-)

[@himalaya_nath_official]

Since this is no clean room. How do you protect the wafer from the particles ? Still commendable work.

[@ajodom10]

I've been browsing through your videos and truly admire your talent and passion. Would love to see more and I'll definitely be contributing to your new patreon. Please keep up the great work and continue to share. Let me know if I can help in any way.

[@exxolight]

did you grow your own silicon wafer?

[@pawel23467]

Sam you knowledge is incredible

[@ЮжныйКот-м2э]

Отличная работа! Скажи, ты плазменную установку делал из нержавейки? И можно ли на ней напылять золото на мембраны для конденсаторных микрофонов?

[@rafusy]

Thank you Sam, I can’t wait for the next video!

[@maxwellconniff1189]

lol, I wish you luck on that ThorLabs sponsorship. You definitely deserve it.

[@practicalmicrofabrication1858]

Very cool! So glad to discover your channel!

[@squelchedotter]

Wow, this really is some serious stuff now. I'm half expecting the next video to be a clean-room ;)

[@DEtchells]

Envious of your entire setup, but I *love* that ‘scope! 🤤 (I’m most envious of your energy level though, as evidenced by the massive amount of work and focus you’ve put into the whole lab! 👍😄) (I was surprised to learn that a diaphragm gauge could be sensitive enough to be accurate at such low pressures. I guess the capacitive sensing can accurately measure very small deflections though. Really interesting too, that you have to use *aluminum* for the chamber. Makes sense because Al2O3 is pretty hard to tear apart, but it never would have occurred to me, as we always used stainless for everything when I used to work on vacuum systems back in the day.)

[@CapitanZeppelin]

SUBSCRIBED AT THE SPEED OF LIGHT

[@lucky-luke8158]

Thats awesome, I just stumbeld upon your channel and I love it!

[@GirthWindFire]

Question. We use non-reactive gas in the etcher at my job. Would you be able to get the same thing to happen with argon? Also the mass spec is incredible.

[@cantsolvesudokus]

That’s cool how the magnet interacts with the plasma!

[@CSTEnjoyer]

Did you measure your IEDFs? Would be interesting to see what they look like

[@yafitbenivgi7291]

King gizz background music - nice touch👌

[@md.fazlayrubby2869]

that's simply an awesome video. thanks for your effort.

[@asoto1516]

So cool, love these videos!

[@andrewprice8439]

Keep up the good work, Sam.

[@PhysicalMatrix]

Thank you for give us these amazing videos 👍

[@i2c_jason]

Hi Sam... I have been planning for a vacuum setup at my one man R&D shop, just want to do sputtering, evaporation, and maybe some experimental carbide coatings with various process gasses. I'm also using a rougher pump with Fomblin. Have you had any issues with your "garage door" outgassing setup? I want to do the same thing, but I'm concerned the fire department or EPA will find issues with this. Any advice, knowledge, or things to watch out for in this area? I want to avoid installing an expensive reactor column, although I purchased a beat up Edwards reactor column with original intentions of getting it running. I'd rather not invest the time and would just want to vent to the outside of the building. I'd only be doing occasional random experiments, and not production. Thanks!

[@CRAZEERUSKEE]

Phenomenal work, and awesome to see a new video/update!

[@ClemoVernandez]

Good stuff man. Keep up the good work

[@AlejandroJCura]

Can't wait till we all have one of this in our garages, printing SID chips to resuscitate Commodore 64s.

[@pisangsedapable]

How the re-deposition of non-volatile compound in dry etching process can be overcome?

[@AmitKumar-li2zq]

I am very excited to see a real microcontroller from your fab

[@loganmapes2307]

can RIE be used to etch 6 micron deep holes of a diameter around 20-40 microns into hardened tool steel with an oxygen plasma?

[@esoalse7187]

Just a quick question. If I try to measure the dc bias on the anode, will it work if I just put a low pass filter to filter out the high frequency component, and measure the dc component using a high resolution ADC? It will be much appreciated if there is any tips regarding this question😊

[@calebuic4310]

How do you get into machining? It seems like a necessary skill for the experimentalist.

[@ЕгорК-ж6о]

So when are you making your first RISV-V chip ?

[@BarbellBinks]

How often do you replace the consumable parts? I get it's certainly not high volume manufacturing, but I'd be worried if those o rings weren't swapped out every so often

[@khoanguyen5805]

Wow! I wish i know you earlier .Thanks for sharing

[@diegogmx2000]

i wonder sam, how can you get all this equipment (like a freaking turbomolecular pump and a mass spectrometer) without going bankrupt?

[@cylosgarage]

Spectacular work as usual 👍

[@lilblackduc7312]

Very good, Sam! Thank you...🇺🇸 😎👍☕

[@ablasttv]

Is there a name for the metal components which make up your vacuum chamber? (The metal tubes, windows, and connectors which bolt together) It seems like some sort of standard pieces you could pickup in standard sizes for any project. Or do you machine them custom?

[@friskydingo5370]

Amazing 👏

[@heyarno]

That is quite impressive equipment. Have you considered etching a microchannel plate and building your own image intensifier tubes?

[@SimplyStuart94]

What do the toxic gases do once they're in the environment?

[@PedroDaGr8]

They will break down in the environmental due to UV, moisture, etc. exposure. The end product being mostly SiO2 and metal fluorides. This isn't a super quick process but should be sufficient at the levels he is producing.

[@nonmaisbon]

Hey that's really impressive !! I'm used to "state of the art" DRIE reactors and I can tell you did a very good job... Well to be honest you should build a gas scrubber to avoid throwing everything into the atmosphere, but otherwise it's much WOW.

[@CianMcsweeney]

Damn at 500nm essentially already 😂 i wonder how far down you can take this

[@Molb0rg]

yep, that's Intel 486 here - very exciting - plenty of stuff which can be useful can be done - that's great

[@whatthefunction9140]

Your channle is so under rated

[@jotatsu]

When they cancel your RTX 3090 order for the third time-- Aigh't imma do it myself--

[@tigeruby]

always love the Zeloof drops 🌿👽🌿

[@aeonikus1]

Not to confuse with drops that Zoloft makes :D

[@АлияАбилдаева-о1о]

Hi. Does anyone know if the thickness of the photoresistic film matters in RIE? I want to remove 1mm of vanilla acetate

[@fengxiw3731]

helpfully，and why you not to continue to update your video

[@waynemorellini2110]

So, you realised how you could use parts of this to draw the patterns on chips?

[@xaverabrahamtiberiuszork474]

So, Zilog recently anounced end of Z80 CPU. World need's replacement :) Isn't it good chalenge? What you are doing is just amazing. I hope you are doing well and will show as more details about your new experiments. I love it.

[@shinyguy3766]

the plasma universe is awesome

[@campbellmorrison8540]

WOW. OMG where do you get all this stuff, love it! obviously you have a very supportive Dad, fantastic!

[@jimzielinski946]

Amazing work. Would you be willing to sell some of your etched silicon specimens? I've been able to look at quite a few finished chips under a microscope, but i'm curious to see what a freshly etched surface looks like.

[@JerryBiehler]

CF4 will also cause your pump oil to polymerize, that is to turn into a chunk of plastic, if you are running mineral based oil. You need to use fomblin and to do that you need to totally tear down the pump and clean all of the old mineral oil out. You might also want to be sitting down when you see the price.

[@belajarbisnisonline9324]

Which one is more detailed result for print, laser vs plasma