Sanding Sealer vs Grain Filler vs Tannin Blocker

There's a difference between sanding sealer, grain filler, and tannin blocker. Knowing the difference will help you achieve a better finish on your next guitar build. If you would like to support the Highline Guitars KZbin channel and get something in return, visit www.eguitarplans.com/
Paid Affiliate Links
Crystalac Sanding Sealer: thecrystalacstore.com/collect...
Crystalac Grain Filler: thecrystalacstore.com/collect...
Crystalac Tannin Sealer: thecrystalacstore.com/collect...
Aqua Coat Grain Filler: amzn.to/2P0g9sj

[@SarcastSempervirens]

Think of it like this - you have pot holes in the road, rain falls, goes in, the gravel in the hole absorbs the rain. A sanding sealer would be like using a lacquer spray can to lacquer the pot hole, so no rain water can be absorbed underneath the road. The hole is still there, it's a hole, but it's surface is sealed. A grain filler is like dumping some concrete into the pot hole and filling it completely so it's flush with the road. A sanding sealer seals the pores so the dye/stain process is controlled. A grain filler then fills the pores themselves.

[@tomdempsey4394]

Though it might seem obvious now, your comment about "sealing" and "filling" made all the difference in the world. Thank you!

[@ronnyskaar3737]

Thanks a lot for not just saying I use this and that, but also explaining why and how things work. So great!

[@Nicky-T]

This is an incredibly informative video. Answered all the questions I could come up with. Instant subscribe! Thank you.

[@montycline9840]

Great information you put out today Chris. Thank you 😊

[@harleyveejay]

Another great informative video, thanks Chris.

[@Abbynorml1979]

I think: this is great information. Best explanation I've seen on this topic, so far.

[@HighlineGuitars]

Glad you think so!

[@fredwareiii7605]

Your information was very clear and informative. Thank you for sharing your expertise and making this video.

[@HighlineGuitars]

Glad it was helpful!

[@jl3693]

Hi.Thanks for a very informative video. Good to get some insight.

[@rondelio8562]

My weapon of choice for a clear coat is lacquer, so usually the first one or two coats seal the wood and dye/stain. It has worked well so far on about 6 guitars I have built. I usually use dye and for woods like ash or mahogany, I use your joint compound based filler with great effect.

[@rokinrandy]

you've answered a lot of my questions. I'm probably going to paint a solid body color or 2 this weekend

[@321mzzz123]

man this is some good explanation skills, thank you!

[@TomL-]

Super informative as always, thanks!

[@HighlineGuitars]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@deedas2613]

your videos are fantastic thank you !

[@UrquidiGuitars]

Really great stuff!! Thank you!!

[@MichaelGotiashvili]

Great content! Thank you Chris!

[@HighlineGuitars]

My pleasure!

[@alan4401]

Thanks, very helpful

[@Ranametalera]

Awesome info, thx for share.!

[@scottakam]

Good info. Thanks.

[@JimboLodisC]

So a sanding sealer can be used as a "wood conditioner" prior to staining for even application of the stain? I've been watching all your finish videos lately getting my process down on paper before I attack some scrap wood, so this video is perfectly timed!

[@adam6ism]

Thank you 🙏

[@stevekobb3850]

So helpful!

[@viviantapp3870]

Pretty interesting to 👍Thank you !

[@viviantapp3870]

*too

[@HighlineGuitars]

Thank you! Cheers!

[@coryackerman5151]

Great video, but when do you apply the tannin blocker? What are the specific steps 1-5 before painting?

[@whatsthepoint202]

Is a tannin blocker necessary if using darker dyes with high gloss finish ? Very informative video BTW. Thanks

[@joshuamichael4312]

Wished I would've found this channel years ago. Would've saved me a lot of time and money following people's directions on forums. Not a great idea, as now I have sand and refinish about 3 or 4 guitar projects from over the years!

[@HighlineGuitars]

Glad I could help!

[@subdrums]

Great video as always! I’ve been watching your videos for years. Since about the time you left the guitar builders group on Facebook. Have you documented your workflow, concerning these products, from start to finish. I’d love to see that video. I’m going to head over and purchase a few plans. Have you given any thought to offering step files or 3D models of your plans? I’d be interested in those as well.

[@HighlineGuitars]

I don't have time to do formats other than the 2D .pdf files I already offer. As for a step by step finishing video, here is one: kzbin.info/www/bejne/n3fXpIuhfaiVna8

[@subdrums]

@@HighlineGuitars no worries, I’ll buy the 2d and build out a model in fusion. thanks for the link! Guess I missed that one.

[@christianleduc1786]

Hello, Thank you for the informative video. Just a question: do you treat endgrain differently, especially for a wood that drinks more, like mahogany, if you want a more uniform colour ?

[@HighlineGuitars]

Yes, I do. That's what I use sanding sealer for.

[@coppulor6500]

damn you a good explainerer. extremely helpful. thank you!!!

[@sonicalmods781]

Mr Chris thanks alot for the inspiration! I was actually looking for a way to make the wood grain coloring effect, i wanna try add colour to a grain filler on an intensely brushed wood to show more grain, Would you suggest using it after applying grain sealer and then a stain colour base before using the grain filler? On what stage would you suggest brushing the wood!

[@HighlineGuitars]

I don't know anything about "brushing wood."

[@thatMikeMurphy]

So if doing a 3 color burst, would it be best to use grain filler first, lightly sand, stain and then use sanding sealer? Wha's the best prep route for a solid paint color so the grain doesn't show? Thanks!

[@gregmoler9760]

hey chris, great explanation i've seen you use solarez, aquacoat, and crystalac grain filler, which have you been the happiest with?

[@HighlineGuitars]

All of them. But now I’m really stoked about Centurion 2k water-based polyurethane.

[@fat-hand]

Great info Chris! You should consider running a guitar building class/school - I'd attend for sure! Question: is it OK to use grain filler on raw wood prior to sanding sealer? So steps would be 1) sanded body ready for stain/finishing, 2) grain filler then sand w/220, 3) sanding sealer then stain/dye/more sanding sealer and sand flat w/220, or if no stain/dye go to clear coating, and so on?

[@HighlineGuitars]

KZbin is my school. Your schedule looks good. Be sure to test on scrap first.

[@fat-hand]

@@HighlineGuitars Thanks Chris! I now feel schooled! :)

[@yobentley7274]

I was under the impression using all water based products, multi colors of dyes first (a burst), clear sanding sealer next, clear grain filler third, then clear lacquer or a Tru-Oil type product. I know Tru-Oil is not water based, but last on top. Is that okay or not right? I don't wat to "F" this up.

[@jacktrotter5357]

Can you use a grain filler on products requiring food safe surfaces like charcuterie boards , then apply a varnish like general top coat or Tung/walnut/mineral/orange oil based coating followed by beeswax?

[@asterisk606]

I'm sure you've done experiments using wood conditioner to prep the wood before, so what was your experience like with it? Did you find that the sanding sealer method you use works better?

[@HighlineGuitars]

It works the same. However, I find that sanding sealer offers more uses than wood conditioner.

[@Hairston70]

Hey Chris do you have another discount code for the CrystaLac Store? The old one doesn't seem to work anymore.

[@HighlineGuitars]

Sorry, I don't.

[@robertmcalister160]

Ok, so if I'm doing a blonde finish on a vintage telecaster, after sanding the wood say to 320, then I use sanding sealer, then lacquer color coat, the sanding sealer again, THEN grain fill, sand flat and let cure. Last, I lay down my gloss clear coats??? Please let me know if I've got it or not. Thx, Robert

[@HighlineGuitars]

I think you've got it. However, I would grain fill first since you have to sand the filler and you don't want to sand into your color.

[@lucabennati360]

As an alternative to the grain filler, could I use wipe on poly mixed with mineral spirit immediately sanded back? In this case the dye has to be added to the mix or applied before, or after? Many thanks!

[@HighlineGuitars]

You can dye before or during, but I wouldn't try after. Dye has to soak into the wood.

[@thijs199]

Hey Chris, what do you think about buying a budget electronic spray device? Or is there a great advantage of using a air compressor?

[@HighlineGuitars]

There is no substitute for a high-quality spray gun. Most people don't understand that until they try one. What you are describing would likely be a step up from brushing your finish, but still a long way from a high-end spray system.

[@dantahoua]

Got problem when spraying Sanding Sealer (Crystalac) over Dyed wood. It did not stick, fisheyed a lot (in fact I also got this problem on raw spruce top!). So I "seal" color or wood with one coat Shellac, and there is no problem after.

[@dantahoua]

My bad I have seen the end of the video before writing my comment. :) Tannin Blocker seems to do the same as Shellac. :)

[@HighlineGuitars]

Sounds like a clear case of spray gun contamination.

[@dantahoua]

@@HighlineGuitars, how could it happen? The soap I use when cleaning it? (dishes soap, supposed to remove greasy stuff). Also I have this problem only with first coat and not every where... Weird...

[@HighlineGuitars]

@@dantahoua Then it's surface contamination.

[@jlgultra1]

Thanks!

[@HighlineGuitars]

You are welcome!

[@jlgultra1]

You have a video adding grain filler to Solarez, I have Solarez w grain filler. Just wondering do I filler to it to reduce multiple coats before using as finish? I am using on Mahogany without staining

[@HighlineGuitars]

@@jlgultra1 You’ll have to test on scrap to know whether to add filler (3M micro balloons). It depends on how open the grain and pores are. Often times, the Solarez is sufficient to fill the grain by itself, but to know for sure, you have to test on scrap first.

[@jlgultra1]

@@HighlineGuitars is there any downside to adding filler?

[@HighlineGuitars]

@@jlgultra1 It isn’t free. That’s the only downside I can think of. Be sure to experiment with ratios to know how much is enough and how much is too much.

[@meadish]

So a sanding sealer always consists of for example lacquer, vinyl or shellac, together with zinc stearate? How can the oil penetrate through the layers of sanding sealer?

[@HighlineGuitars]

It can't.

[@pb48711]

I am using Sapele for a guitar body that I plan on staining dark red with Craftnique #2 and#8 (40 - No 2, 1 drop #8 per oz of applicant). I have sprayed on 3 coats of Crystalac Sanding sealer and have a question: Is there any benefit to sanding the sealer down to a smooth coat without sanding it to the grain, and instead just level sanding the sealer lighter with P-600? I did a test run of with and without a full sealer coat on both mahogany and scrap Sapele and found that staining over a coat of sealer looked nicer (to me) than sanding it down to the grain pore level. Your thoughts on this? Any issues with this approach? BTW, this is the LAST time that I use Sapele as it seems to generate some funky grain tone fluctuations that look "splotchy" (not a sanding issue, trust me), where I have never had that issue with Mahogany.

[@HighlineGuitars]

No thoughts except to say testing is key to achieving the look YOU want.

[@virgilkelleyjr566]

So another channel uses simtech ez sanding sealer on fabric top guitars. They use simtech ez sanding sealer with a little bit of hardner in it. What Im trying to figure out is if its all the same? Its on Texas Toast Guitars fabric top part 2. I have sanding sealer and hardener but I dont have that simtech stuff

[@HighlineGuitars]

You would have to read the data sheets for the products you have and the Simtech stuff to see if they are the same.

[@dasfasdas7350]

Sir, can grain filler cover the soft parts of the wood to stop it from absorbing stains or dye? Sorry Im confused.

[@HighlineGuitars]

Yes, it can. That's why you should sand back the grain filler to remove it from the surface while leaving it only in the deeper grain. Sanding sealer will penetrate deeper into the softer (open pore) areas, but it won't absorb into the harder (closed pore) areas. After sanding back the sealer, some will remain in the areas with softer, open pores while being completely removed from the harder, closed pore areas. This will aid in a more even penetration of your stain or dye across the entire surface.

[@Tinkermade]

Hi Chris! Do they make a clear grain filler? I’d like to mix it with powdered turquoise to fill in some old weathered wood. Do you think I’d be better off with powder and epoxy for that? I’d like to avoid epoxy because it’s so laborious to sand. Thanks for anything you can recommend!

[@HighlineGuitars]

Both the Crystalac and Aqua Coat grain fillers dry clear and can be mixed with tints for color. I recommend Crystalac CraftNique pigments or TransTint dyes for tinting.

[@Tinkermade]

@@HighlineGuitars Awesome, thank you!

[@PNDA235]

Im currently building a guitar, ash body strat. I have settled on a water based dye color by folk art (same color you used on a guitar a while back, purple). My question is, should I use a sanding sealer, then dye, then grain fill? Or dye, seal, fill? Thanks in advance, love your content.

[@HighlineGuitars]

Watch the video. That is literally what I talked about.

[@PNDA235]

@@HighlineGuitars I watched, where i was confused was you mentioned using a sanding sealer before, which would help alleviate blotching, but also mentioned using it after staining as a sealer before filling. So im assuming then using it before as well as after is the recommendation. Thanks again!

[@gbish6906]

@@PNDA235 personally I would dye, seal, fill for an ash body. Now whether or not you seal first and then dye, do some tests. Depending on your colour, it may appear differently if laid on bare wood vs your sealer product. If you decide to put a sealer first for whatever reason, make sure your sanding prep afterwards is as perfect as possible to avoid blotchiness. Again, your colour could, and often will, lay down differently on bare wood vs your sealer product.

[@timseverson5578]

Some woods blotch more than others. If trying to stain or Dye Mahogany let's say, it is a very open pore wood which would blotch. That is why a Sanding Sealer can be used before the Staining/Dyeing process as it acts as a barrier to prevent the stain/dye from penetrating into the open pores as much. Woods such as Hard Figured Maple, is a very tight grain and doesn't blotch which is why you wouldn't want to apply the sealer first. It would actually prevent the dye from making the Figured Maple Pop if you applied a sealer first. I'm not an expert but maybe that helps??

[@PNDA235]

Thanks guys, im planning on doing some testing just to see how it affects the color. Love the discussion though.

[@jonahguitarguy]

The most common wood’s with high tannin are redwood and cedar. Cedar being the most common guitar wood, acoustics. Shellac is a great sealer and tannin blocker. So two birds one stone. Not to over simplify.

[@HighlineGuitars]

Shellac is a great sealer and tannin blocker. However, it needs to be dewaxed and it is mixed into alcohol. Also, the premixed formulas have a fairly short shelf life. The Crystalac products I recommend are water-based and have a much longer shelf life.

[@jonahguitarguy]

@@HighlineGuitars, yep thanks right Chris.

[@the67chevynova]

should I use the aqua coat grain filler before or after applying minwax tung oil finish?

[@HighlineGuitars]

Use it before and sand off the excess leaving it only in the grain and pores.

[@giosai1220]

Hi, got a question, can you use polyurethane paint over lacquer sanding sealer?

[@HighlineGuitars]

No.

[@jlgultra1]

Do I need to add a grain filler to Solarez (grain filler) I can’t believe it’s not lacquer if I am not staining mahogany? Wondering if I add for one coat and not for rest?

[@HighlineGuitars]

I don’t understand your question.

[@unclestubs8377]

What grit sandpaper should be used between applications of sanding sealer or grain fillers?

[@HighlineGuitars]

220 is what I use.

[@unclestubs8377]

@@HighlineGuitars thank you, your channel is great

[@bronsonguidry1744]

Would it be safe to say that, if I were to use all 3 products, with a stain,... I would 1st use the tannin blocker, stain, sealer, then filler? For an opaque finish... tannin blocker, filler, no sealer, then paint?

[@HighlineGuitars]

Correct. However, I would still use a sanding sealer on top of the filler when going for an opaque finish. That way I could sand the surface nice and smooth before applying the primer and paint.

[@asdfasdfasdfsadf7868]

would transparent white glue work as a grain filler? Titebond all purpose white is what I was planning on using, and trying to use it as a wood hardener on some real soft wood?

[@HighlineGuitars]

You can mix it with saw dust to make a filler paste.

[@sookieandspencer]

@@HighlineGuitars Have you ever tried mixing GoodFilla's CLEAR grain filler with sawdust? In addition be being an amazing time saver for pore filling, it can be used to achieve a perfect match while filling in the grain! Would love to send you some samples to test out and play with!

[@glem7570]

Is it true that after you finish with the grain filler and colour you have to wait more than a month before the sanding sealer cause the filler going to shrink??

[@HighlineGuitars]

No.

[@boctok55]

I have a quilted maple topped body that I'm planning on dyeing with Angelus dyes. It won't need any grain filler on the top. So, I should apply the dye and then, before any top coat, use sanding sealer?

[@kevinyounger7854]

Just out of curiosity- because I’m about to go the same path for a couple guitars- what are you going to use as your top coat?

[@kevinyounger7854]

@@mgcnashville6615 I thought it was a good idea for the sanding sealer to prevent any potential “reaction” between the dye and the top coat?

[@kevinyounger7854]

@@mgcnashville6615 Thanks for the info. Are there any good can-based spray sealers you've tried? I'm not sure I want to invest in a spray setup for two guitars.

[@kevinyounger7854]

@@mgcnashville6615 I was considering going the GluBoost route or possibly the Solarez UV curing products that Chris has recommended on here. I'm trying not to rush this project but I also won't have the huge amount of time that nitro and some of the other finishes take

[@kevinyounger7854]

@@mgcnashville6615 Thanks again for all of the info!

[@StrudlePie]

My Guy!!

[@user-ch9jo8mi7m]

Do you know if CrystaLac incorporates their tannin blocker into the sanding sealer?

[@HighlineGuitars]

As I said in the video, they are not the same thing.

[@user-ch9jo8mi7m]

@@HighlineGuitars I realize they are not the same thing but do they add a tannin blocker to any of their bright coat products to save an extra step in finishing.

[@HighlineGuitars]

@@user-ch9jo8mi7m Brite Tone is a topcoat. Adding a tannin blocker wouldn't do anything. Tannin comes from inside the wood. Tannin has to be blocked from contaminating whatever color you apply to the wood BEFORE you apply a topcoat.

[@laurielindquist3907]

So, after watching TONS and TONS of your videos from you, I bought the crystalac instrument finish. I dont have a spray gun so I used a teklon brush as was suggested with their facebbok group. It did not level out like I was expecting. I'm using this to finish an acrylic design I painted on the guitar. I waited a week to let paint cure. I brushed on 6-7 coats, waiting 4 hours between coats. Tried to level sand after a week. Used rp500, p1000, p1200. Never could get it level with my design. I think I sanded the finish off in spots trying to get it level. I then used menzerna 3 in 1 polish with my screwdriver attachment sponges. Well, it looks awful : THERE IS NO SHINE NOW... AT ALL I just dont know what finish would be thicker where it could be level sanded. PLEASE HELP! I just want a playable finish! How about can spraying rusteolum? 2X ultra clear, how many coats and is that as durable as crystalac? I have 6 customers who want their guitars painted and I wont do them until I can get it right! This guitar I sprayed uncouple coats of 2x ultra to get the shine back and will be sending it back to Operation Art Strings which I painted an unplayable guitar for them at no charge. I'm doing my mothers guitar, soni need to get this finish nailed down. Sorry this is so long... I appreciate any insight you may have regarding this and keep up the great work with the videos! Thanks!

[@HighlineGuitars]

You didn't apply enough coats of Brite Tone. You need at least 12-15 coats with one day of cure time per coat after the last coat has been applied. I would recommend dry sanding level with Super Assilex 400 grit to 3,000 grit before buffing. And keep in mind that to get a mirror-like high gloss shine, you need a buffing machine.

[@laurielindquist3907]

@@HighlineGuitars wow! 15 coats! Ok. I will try that. After level sanding, do you think menzerna 3 in 1 will give it a good polish or do I need to purchase the other steps in between? Thanks for the fast reply

[@HighlineGuitars]

@@laurielindquist3907 I've never used that polish, so I can't say. You could start with it and only buy the other steps if you aren't getting a good polish.

[@gorgenhaggblad6727]

So. First sanding Sealer than stain it as you like and than sanding sealer again before you put on the grain filler? Sorry for bad english. From Sweden.

[@HighlineGuitars]

Det är korrekt.

[@adamauzmendi7851]

Hey Chris I’ve used sand and seal on my guitar body and when I have tried to sand it off the sand paper is just clogging up very quickly and it becomes hard and scratches the body and I just can’t seem to get it all off. Any ideas or tips ??

[@HighlineGuitars]

I need to know exactly what product you used.

[@adamauzmendi7851]

It’s called feast Watson sanding sealer

[@HighlineGuitars]

@@adamauzmendi7851 That's a solvent-based product, so I'm going to suggest that it hasn't fully cured yet or there's something wrong with it. If it is fully cured, you might need to contact the manufacturer to find out what's going on.

[@adamauzmendi7851]

Sorry to be a pest, While I have you, on another project I’ve done a stain on the back and sides and a duplicolor with Montana crackle effect on the front, I was going to use a 2k clear on the front,should I use a different clear on the back and sides ? And would you do it all at once or do the front separately ? Thanks a lot for your time

[@HighlineGuitars]

@@adamauzmendi7851 Use the 2k on all sides at once.

[@michaeldecarlo8738]

I've got a mahogany guitar body that I want to dye green using transtint dye. Do I apply the dye first then the solarez grain sealer or vice versa?

[@HighlineGuitars]

I would dye it first. Seal it with spray shellac and then apply the Solarez. The spray shellac will keep the dye from reactivating when you brush on the Solarez.

[@michaeldecarlo8738]

@@HighlineGuitars I can only find spray shellac with wax, will that work with Solarez?

[@HighlineGuitars]

@@michaeldecarlo8738 don’t know ask Solarez or test on scrap.

[@michaeldecarlo8738]

@@HighlineGuitars FYI... Question:Will this bond to shellac that contains wax? I want to dye wood then spray shellac w/wax and then apply the solarez as the top coat. Will this work? Answer:If the Shellac has wax that is on the surface when dried, it needs to be scuff-sanded. Then, it is an excellent substrate By Solarez - Wahoo International,… SELLER on January 15, 2023

[@HighlineGuitars]

@@michaeldecarlo8738 I use Zinsser Bullseye spray shellac which contains no wax.

[@JebJulian]

Yep mind blown, couldn't work out the stew mac instruction of wash coats of thinned water base lacquer being applied prior to grain fill *if the same finish sinks what's the point? "sealers stop grain fill from being sucked into the grain is my take away

[@JebJulian]

Wonder if super glue would work as a sealer ( had bad sinkage on the seam of my last book matched top and live in the back waters of Australia * shipping is a function of distance) will be onto sealers if I haven't misunderstood

[@JebJulian]

@@mgcnashville6615 Thanks a bunch for the tip and answering my question. Seen a few wood turners use CA as top coat. Gotta look into Gluboost

[@JebJulian]

Also really keen to see the translucent white finish

[@andysaucedo3226]

3:55 mmmm...pancakes 🥞

[@TomH_YT]

It's still confusing. So far, I've not found a reliable path from raw wood of various types, to the color of various types, to the topcoat. I guess I want something like the London subway map is to commuters. Starting here, going there, here are the stations you will pass.

[@HighlineGuitars]

Your comment give me an idea for a flow chart. Maybe I'll do a follow up that's more graphical.

[@LockStoppageSandwich]

@@HighlineGuitars Hi Chris, did you ever do a flow chart for this ?

[@HighlineGuitars]

@@LockStoppageSandwich No.

[@TotemoGaijin]

Do people not know that "sanding sealer" is just dewaxed shellac?

[@HighlineGuitars]

None of the sanding sealers I use contain shellac.

[@bobmalone1763]

Sounds like you confused wood conditioner with sanding sealer! So confusing. Tons of products out there…oil and water based…now they have confused urethanes (in varnish) with polyurethane too.

[@HighlineGuitars]

I didn’t confuse anything. They are the same thing but with different names for marketing purposes.

[@amos660]

impossible to follow with my adhd.