Santa Fe HO F7 Comparison: Athearn Genesis vs MTH vs Broadway Limited

Hi guys! Today we will be comparing the details, accuracy and running characteristics of three HO F7s painted for ATSF:
1. Athearn Genesis (2010 run) w/ Tsunami sound
2. MTH w/ Protosound 3.0 sound
3. BLI w/ Paragon 3 sound
Enjoy!
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Music used:
Patrick Patrikios - Everglow
0:00 Introduction
1:25 History
2:50 Detail
19:10 Mechanism
20:49 Performance
28:33 Lights
32:06 Conclusion

[@trainman440]

Forgot to change the beginning title sequence, oops!

[@Greatdome99]

Genesis carbodies are based on the Highliners tooling Athearn acquired, not the 1950s Globe tooling. Front "eye bolts" are called lift rings. Used only in case of a wreck, not in the shop. Front "fuel tank" is a water tank for the steam generator. Note that Santa Fe A units didn't have steam generators, only the B units. Side chrome plating is supposed to replicate stainless steel panels, to match psgr cars. That Genesis axle "rerailer" is the Automatic Train Stop sensor, allowing trains to exceed the federally mandated 79mph maximum. Troublesome diaphragms were removed shortly after delivery. I saw many Warbonnets in service in the 1960s; none were ever shiny. The red paint faded badly in the desert sunlight, so any color is probably accurate. Before every departure, pilots and trucks were spray-painted aluminum to make them look fresh.

[@trainman440]

indeed they are! I might not have made it clear in the vid, but what I meant was athearns first F7 was the globe tooling and is still used in their roundhouse/RTR lineup of F7s, BUT the genesis F7s dont use globe tooling. Are you sure the lift rings really not used in the shops? I know for sure the PRR front lift rings are used in shops, but ATSF didnt? I figured since the front roof of the loco couldnt have lift rings mounted due to the cab, they chose to put them in the front of the loco instead, sort of like the lift rings on top of the diaphragm. The rest is good info I wasent aware of, comment pinned!

[@blackterminal]

The paint must have gotten thick?

[@PeterNGloor]

Genesis looks the best. Thanks to Highliners shell. Moreover, it seems to have MU connectors and lift rings (what you call eyebolts) . Earlier Genesis versions came pretty much naked.

[@trainman440]

indeed, these are definitely an upgrade from the early yellowbox era. thanks for the correction, im no diesel expert!

[@davidsprague6385]

Please keep in mind that the sun often plays no favors on equipment stuck outside for all weather conditions. So naturally, two locomotives could realistically be two off colors from its brother. Even if they came out of the paint shop hours apart. Take into consideration of the location that they served in, Sun beating down, rain streaks and stains. Mud dust is greasy grime often hides the original gleam. Not to mention rain and conditions we could never imagine.

[@trainman440]

that is true, however I dont see there to be such a huge difference between an ABBA set. Im not sure how often ATSF perma coupled their ABBA sets together, but I dont think its too unreasonable for me to personally want my model of a ABBA set to have similar matching paints. It wont bother others, and that's why Im not stopping anyone from buying their preferred brand of F7s, but it does bother me. Cheers!

[@badboy10350]

You're missing the point! LOL 🙄🙄

[@cheryltysver4819]

Very good and informative review!

[@trainman440]

thanks!

[@brianseely1500]

Hey I have some of these from when I was a kid who buys these things

[@trainman440]

nice! these are rather popular models, the Santa Fe warbonnet is iconic!

[@TrainLordJC]

Interesting and informative presentation with these three pretty good brands and very good to compare the three together. That said I have various locos, both steam and diesel of these three brands and I have had trouble with all of them to the point that I have had the latest ESU Loksound version5 decoders installed in over a dozen of them. The sounds are definitely better and probably more authentic. I have also had the speakers replaced which certainly adds to the sound. Thanks for your effort in presenting. I have just subscribed to your channel.

[@trainman440]

I agree, the MTH decoders are real finicky, and the BLI decoders tend to glitch out from my experience, and the sound quality is quite frankly terrible in my opinion. ESU certainly holds the gold medal for diesel sounds, but I cant afford buying a sound equipped loco just to rip it out and replace it with another decoder. REALLY hope one day BLI will release DCC ready versions of their locos like they used to. I recall used to watching your channel, good content! Subbed!

[@sernajrlouis]

Awesome video

[@sd80mac]

The Genesis/Highliners F unit is probably the best HO diesel that has ever been tooled.

[@trainman440]

That's a very bold statement, but I would agree that the Genesis/Highliner is a fantastic F unit tooling!

[@PeterNGloor]

@@trainman440 not bold, but if you are being realistic, it really is. Also my opinion.

[@trainman440]

@@PeterNGloor fair enough lol. It is very solid.

[@jean-pierrepodik9638]

Hello! tanks for your presentation. I have MTH F 7 SPRR very good quality sound and moore, but large space beetwin A unit and B unit. Greetings from France.

[@trainman440]

thanks! Yea the space between units on the MTH units is annoying. You can fix it partially by replacing the couplers with kadees.

[@Happenedin62]

The hatch on the nose that you are referencing is the MU connections. They are high on these units so they can MU to hood units such as GP7's and 9's.

[@trainman440]

interesting, I thought it was some sort of bumper. Good to know!

[@torbinator9729]

The B units snippet at the end lollll !!!

[@trainman440]

:D

[@cameronthehedgehog261yt]

You should do this comparison again but compare those 3 santa fe f7 with the walthers ho sante fe f7a&b

[@trainman440]

Hey! Walthers can be summed up as this: Athearn genesis prices for an okay detailed engine. The BIG issue with their ATSF F7s is the shade of red they used is VERY dark, far more noticeable than BLI's slight off-red shade. Therefore I have avoided their F7s. Theres also many other F7 brands I could compare. Intermountain, BLI blue line, BLI paragon, BLI PSC (all are different from each other), Stewart, Athearn Genesis Yellow box, Athearn RTR/Roundhouse, Bachmann, etc. But I stuck with the three I had at the time. Im not gonna go out of my way in spending $$$ to buy a F7 just for a review video though, especially since I make $0 from my channel. Cheers!

[@baileymaywald2656]

Wish I could have seen the waltzers proto put into this as well. I’m debating on those or the athearn

[@trainman440]

depending on the run, Walthers was kinda infamous was using a VERY dark red for the ATSF F7s. Be wary of that. I never bought one because they just looks so off lol, and therefore dont have some to toss into the review. Cheers!

[@blackterminal]

I have a Bachmann one with sound value and it's my most favorite Ho model I have

[@trainman440]

nice!

[@rihel]

I have a comment. Probably I'm wrong but, Athearn model looks like Face III. Why? Besides the size of the dynamic brake fan, which is the same as the F-9, the side louvers, are also, F-9 style. Ordinarily, the F-7 side louvers are horizontal. The F-9 are vertical. If you can see the Atlas-Roco FP-7, you can see that the dynamic brake fans and side louvers are the same as the F-9. Even, the radiator grills, are vertical as the F-9. Differences? Of course, F-7 and FP-7 have four louvers on each side. F-9 and FP-9 had five.

[@trainman440]

Hello! I admit I know very little about diesels, but I'm 90% sure these are phase two F7s. ATSF just chose to modernize their F7s in a particular fashion that might look similar to the phase 3 F7s or F9s. But I wouldnt be using other models as a reference in terms of what is and isnt an F7. Look up prototype photos and such, or consult a diesel expert! Cheers!

[@trainknut]

The lack of MU's kinda bugs me but besides that I could see myself getting a couple BLI and Athearn ones, I like how one has the 5 chime while the other has a 3, which is prototypical as ATSF used a variety of horns on these engines. The variety in colour also compliment each other, as was already said in a different comment, ATSF units were never really exactly the same shade as each other, especially after a few years in service they tended to fade a lot. Athearn's model might represent a unit recently out of the shop, while the BLI one looks appropriately faded for an engine in continuous road service, (as most of the warbonnets were, being passenger engines) for a few years. If for Paragon 4 they add the correct headlight configuration with dual bulbs, and the correct MU hoses, which should be a simple fix, I think they could both honestly be perfect runningmates.

[@trainman440]

Hi! I agree the different shades of red doesnt bother me as it is rather prototypical. That being said, the different chrome finishes does bother me as it is very noticably different, and the chrome shouldnt be different. Besides the chrome finish, my biggest issue with the BLI models is the terrible sound system. I stand by my words that I think BLI sound systems sound terrible. The sound feels drowned out and muted, nothing like the crisp sharp sound seen on proper decoders. I think its less to do with the sound files and more to do with the chip on the decoder that amplifies the speakers being an old design, similar to QSI decoders. The lack of MU hoses on the other locos is actually correct, since as-built these didnt come with MU hoses iirc. That being said the fact they exist on the genesis models is a nice touch. Different horns is also a nice touch between the various manufacturers. I do agree, the lights on the BLI model is a bit underwhelming. Not having individual bulbs is rather disappointing. MTH's F7 does have individual bulbs, however the top mars/emergency light should have two bulbs, not one. Interestingly, I recently got a pair of Blueline F7s. I might make a quick review on them, but theyre VERY interesting. Since they share tooling with the MTH f7s, they have more or less the same detail. It has the bog standard two single chime horns on the cab roof. It has the same matte finish on the chrome plating like the modern bli F7s. BUT, it has a non-faded shade of red, AND it actually does have the seperate bulbs for the headlight. Two horizontal ones for the headlight, and two vertical ones for the mars/emergency light which is accurate. Only the bottom mars light works though which makes sense. I find it fascinating that MTH chose to make the lights LESS accurate by removing the top emergency light all together and having a single bulb. They also removed the single prototype specific detail found on the blueline model, the extra mu hose panel left of the mars light. (MTH took BLI's blueline F7 tooling) Fascinating how they would remove such details but then upgrade the horn. Cheers!

[@trainman440]

gosh that response ended up being much longer than anticipated.

[@trainknut]

@@trainman440 I would assume if the BlueLine and Genesis models share the same headlight arrangement for a reason. That probably means MTH didn't get their hands on whatever patents/tooling Athearn used for the prototypical headlights, so they had to replace it and make do. I'm pretty sure the dual single chime is also appropriate for some ATSF F's, especially earlier in their career. Though the threes and fives were definitely more common. I did know about the MU's not being there as-delivered what I meant is I prefer their later appearance. As for chrome, trust me man, as an ATSF modeler, it bugs me to NO END. Sometimes you can't even get consistent silver from the SAME MANUFACTURER. For example, I have an FP45 and an SD75M, both from Athearn, both painted in the same late superfleet warbonnet scheme, yet for some reason one is semi-glossy pseudo-chrome, and the other is just regular matte silver. I just excuse it away with the same reasoning as the red - no two engines look exactly alike. Although, in the case of 90s era superfleet engines, it's a bit less excusable because those things got repainted every few months.

[@trainman440]

@@trainknut Well BLI blueline and athearn genesis F7 tooling is nothing alike. Blueline tooling is their own, Athearn got their tooling from highliner. MTH stole BLI's blueline F7 tooling via a lawsuit. So the fact that Blueline tooling has genesis features is rather impressive. Having the same headlight arrangement is rather impressive, and I give bli props for that. Why MTH chose to make the blueline tooling worse is anyones guess, but obviously its not athearns tooling, theyre nothing alike, since MTH took BLI's tooling NOT Athearn's tooling. Yes, single chime is accurate for as-built, but it looks out of place if I were to run it in consist with my genesis F7s. And that is my issue. Im trying to find a good AB set of F7s to run in consist with my genesis F7s. The BLI ones fail bc of the different chrome. The MTHs has good chrome but everything else seems to be inferior. Having different chrome is nothing like having different shades of red. Chrome should be chrome. The fact that Athearn's MTH's and Walther's chrome all look more or less identical, but BLI's looks off just bugs me. They should totally be capable of it, but they seem to just refuse to recreate it. Im willing to give some lieniency, but BLI's is just glaringly obvious in how different it is. Anyways, so turns out im STILL on the hunt for a good AB set to run with my genesis F7 set. Might just give up and get some yellow box genesis F7s. Cheers!

[@trainknut]

@@trainman440 I had Blueline confused with Blue Box, SMH. It's honestly a little disappointing there are so few good, highly detailed F units out there, and even fewer that depict them later in their careers as they would've looked in the 60s and 70s, which was actually the peak of their careers to be honest. Like as much as I love transition era modeling... I just love the way F units looked in the 60s when railroads started tweaking the units for local problems, like snowplows on the SP units, or the addition of extra MU connections for running with newer engines. I honestly really appreciate BLI actually tried something with theirs instead of just pumping out the same generic tooling for every road, which so many manufacturers are unfortunately content with. Hopefully with P4 we get a model which addresses these complaints, because, it wasn't a bad try.

[@jasonanderson6583]

Ok so I’ve sceen the only preserved F7 number 347C and the pain job on the athern model is right on the money. It’s matches it perfectly

[@trainman440]

glad to hear confirmation!

[@johnspencer7291]

what couplers on the athearns? my f-units have way to much space in between them

[@trainman440]

Hey! You can swap your couplers out for short shank center set couplers, theyre shorter than normal couplers so they should bring your locos closer. I believe Kadee 153 couplers work, although any short shank center set Kadee coupler would work.

[@johnspencer7291]

@@trainman440 thanks for the reply!! gonna oreder some 153 kadees rite now

[@YeOldeGeezer]

How about revisiting this with the addition of the walthers mainline f7

[@trainman440]

Hello, of the dozen or so comments Ive received its funny how 5 of them are all talking about comparing the walthers F7s. I'll just copy paste my reply from the previous 4. Walthers can be summed up as this: Athearn genesis prices for an okay detailed engine. The BIG issue with their ATSF F7s is the shade of red they used is VERY dark, far more noticeable than BLI's slight off-red shade. I never bought one because they just looks so off lol and its kind of a well known fact, and therefore dont have some to toss into the review.

[@PeterNGloor]

Did you notice that Athearn's is the only one that has a radio antenna (on top of the rearmost roof panel)

[@trainman440]

I didnt, good catch!

[@PeterNGloor]

@@trainman440 it's the standard flower-pot type which could be found on top of the cab on other units.

[@bitrage.]

Just curious since i know nothing about this subject, how much does a larger setup like you have range in price?

[@trainman440]

Hey! my setup is actually really small, its just a 4x8 table. My layout just has a lot of track haha :) In terms of price, it depends. Are you talking about the engines and rolling stock? or just the table? or table plus track, etc. Im free to answer any questions!

[@bitrage.]

@@trainman440 I mean like at your age 20 or under im guessing.. how much do you have invested??? And are you going to school for something related with Mechanical Engineering or Trains, Model Trains, Mold making, ect.?? Im just curious, i used to be into the lil plastic model building with the glue as a kid then got into RC planes..

[@trainman440]

@@bitrage. hey! Id be happy to share, but if possible id like to avoid writing it via YT comments. DM me on instagram (Trainman440) or email me (in description). But the short of it is, yes Im majoring in Mech Engineering right now. Ive been in this hobby for years, and restore trains as a side hustle. I can make quite a bit of cash using this method, and use that money to reinvest in this hobby. I obviously dont use anyone elses money for this hobby, this has all been entirely funded by myself through hustling and working.

[@bitrage.]

@@trainman440 Well yea, totally understand that, was actually a dumb question in a public forum... Awsome, Its Really good when you can take a hobby or passion and apply it torwards a prosperous career that you will love doing...👍👍👍

[@trainman440]

@@bitrage. yep lol, theres no train majors unforunately...atleast none that pay well. If you want further info i can share more details if you contact me via the ways mentioned above. Cheers!

[@scottwendt9575]

Something that still bothers me to this day with Tsunami…. No matter how much tweaking… the horn never seems to be loud enough. In reality the horn should always drowned out ever other sound. You shouldn’t be able to hear the bell over the horn. Real horns can be heard from almost the next town, the prime mover from just outside of town and the bell barely as it approaches the platform…. One thing I did like about the old QSI in Walthers old Proto runs was the Echo effect. We want people to believe we are modeling and operating our trains in wide open spaces. The open hollow sound of my Proto Great Northern F’s sure help with making my basement seem bigger than it is.

[@trainman440]

Old Tsunami decoders have a lot of issues. The horn issue can kinda be fixed by simply turning down all other function volumes besides the horn. My issue is the fact that the prime mover sounds from notching up and down comes AFTER the engine already speeds up/slows down. I personally prefer esu loksound for my small handful of diesels. Cheers!

[@scottwendt9575]

@@trainman440 I do agree on the notching and like the delay in motion that only occurs after the “power increase” from the prime mover. The challenge then becomes trying to speed match for consisting when different decoders cycle through the notching at different rates. My favorite is the Sound package Scale Trains put in the SDL39…. The trucks have little contacts built in that trigger frog clanking sounds when the loco goes through a switch or crossing! How cool is that 😃

[@trainman440]

@@scottwendt9575 thats pretty awesome! yea I think scaletrains used ESU loksound in thier diesels. ESU is king!

[@YeOldeGeezer]

​@@trainman440PS3 is king and will always be 😂

[@trainman440]

@@YeOldeGeezer PS3 was definitely a cool sound system!

[@Happenedin62]

The BLI unit just needs the cab light CV turned off.

[@trainman440]

indeed, I'll be honest I didnt even bother trying to see if that was possible before I got rid of them. BLI tends to like to connect secondary lights directly to track power, like their marker lights on various PRR locos. But there may be a way to turn off the cab light via CVs!

[@officialpennsyjoe]

If the Athrean is a blue box, then that will be the best one out of the three. Athrean have a good track record over the years with reliable drives. MTH, electronics will be the main issue. BLI, probably the same with MTH with the Paragon 3. By the way, the Whisker ATSF F7s are coming later on this year.

[@trainman440]

Actually mth electronics are very solid and reliable with good quality control. their only downside is the somewhat limited dcc functionality. All three have quality drives except for blis paragon 3/motor issues. Athearn definitely wins though as far as detail and accuracy goes. The athearn is an athearn genesis blue box. not vintage athearn blue box. thanks for watching!

[@officialpennsyjoe]

@@trainman440 aye, thanks for the correction. Definitely keep Athearn!

[@marblox9300]

Boy - all you guys into details much.???

[@trainman440]

I mean, if I werent comparing detail what else would I compare? Why even make a comparison video at all if I werent going to mention the difference in details?

[@marblox9300]

@@trainman440 Example of how nutty you guys are getting. In the REAL world - the same locos from the same Railroad could have very different shades of color. Newer paint on one and faded paint on the other. And I find SOUND locos just stupid. When I run my DC locos I hear the electric motor and imagine it being the sound of the real thing. If I were to go DCC I would skip the speaker part.

[@trainman440]

@@marblox9300 I think I mentioned in the video, but in case i didnt, here was my point. The different shades of red IS ACCURATE since yes, paint fades irl and not all paint was identical. BUT for my practical purposes, I was trying to assemble an ABBA consist using an AB set from two different manfuacturers, so for ME, the BLI set with its faded red and different style plating didnt match my genesis AB set nearly as well as the MTH matched them. Therefore for me the BLI set didnt work. I noted how BLI had the most different shade of red, but I dont believe I mentioned anything about it being inaccurate. I hope that clears it up.

[@paullubliner6221]

Most accurate paint? The Broadway tooling was scanned and directly knocked off the original and accurate HGHLINERS tooling. I have photo's I took of AT&SF F's side by side with different shades of red in one photo.

[@trainman440]

I believe I mentioned it in the video, but paint accuracy is obviously subjective to the viewer. All I mentioned was that BLI used a more faded, slightly more magenta-ish red than the other two manufacturers. I do photography as a business, and would like to think that I have a keen eye for detecting colors. I of course understand that in real life these engines would often have faded colors, and if the modeler would like a slightly faded red warbonnet loco, then BLI would be a great choice. Hope that clears things up.

[@badboy10350]

What? You want a cookie?? LMFAO

[@rottenroads1982]

All people really want to see is the Model on the move.

[@trainman440]

then maybe dont watch an in depth REVIEW video? Instead look up the many other videos of them running on youtube? I got a few of them running on my channel.

[@tomatkinson6996]

It's pronounced (ATH-thearn)

[@trainman440]

thanks lol, I've grown up saying it wrong, trying to fix it but its hard breaking old habits

[@cammacgregor9354]

Not in Ireland. This guy's pronounciation is regional and accurate to the way Irvin Athearn spoke. Ath-thearn is an Americanized version

[@quychang4471]

Dude. you speak way too fast. I can't even decipher what brand you are pronouncing!

[@trainman440]

I feel like I can start copy and pasting this response at this point lol as ive responded to this type of comment so much. But here goes: I realize my speaking was stuttery and fast in my old vids. Back then I did it because I was focused on trying to get as much information out without having the video be over an hour long (no one would watch it), all while avoiding trying to script the video (which takes LOTS of time). But Ive finally given in to all the complaints. Ive finally started scripting my recent reviews which allow me to speak slower yet still output the same amount of information. the production level has gone up, however it means instead of taking 3 hours to make a review, it now takes around 7 hours per video, from script writing to voice recording to shooting footage to editing and uploading. Keep in mind Im making $0 for all this work. Stay tuned, as I plan to remake many older reviews with this new format!