The Deepening of Darth Vader

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[@savagebooks7482]

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[@Blaze-bk7eq]

I was REALLY hoping you were going to add the scene from rebels where Vader literally uses the force to raise a BUILDING off of himself!!!

[@maldon3659]

Savage Books I agree with what you said about The Legend Of Korra not being as good as The Last Airbender, in fact I don't think any of the shows that have tried to imitate Last Airbender's success like Voltron: LD or She-Ra: POP are better than The Last Airbender or even The Legend Of Korra, the only show I can think of that even reaches that level is The Dragon Prince

[@carlmia305]

video idea what makes a movie real vs dark ( storytelling )

[@ptolemeeselenion1542]

*"Avatar is the highest grossing movie in the world, but it left ZERO impact onto modern culture."* Who the hell are you lying at? *"[Marvel Cinematic Universe] has made dozens of movies, but only two has left an impact on culture, Infinity War and Endgame"* . Because Iron Man, The Avengers, Captain America: The Winter Soldier, Guardians of The Galaxy and most peculiarly Black Panther of them all meant nothing... and I am saying this as a man who can't stand most Disney owned franchises in general.

[@general_midas]

Before I get completely off topic from your video, wonderful vid, and I love the amount of detail you put into it! Can people please realize that Star Wars: A New Hope was written and released in the 60s and 70s. While A New Hope was the first to use several new filming methods and technologies, the fight scene between Obi-Wan and Darth Vader has sadly been outclassed by newer films. But people now lose sight of that and think that it was just made terrible. Not necessarily true. It was created in a different time, different era. I watched the Original Star Wars Trilogy when I was seven. What the new generation needs to do is put themselves in the shoes of a child in the 70s. This film was unlike ANYTHING they had seen before.

[@luxintenebris1776]

Darth Vader was on screen for only 8 minutes in A New Hope....Now THAT is presence!

[@ThaneCrosoft]

Like godzilla 2014.

[@sethwright8870]

@@ThaneCrosoft lol

[@Yvaelle]

Using him sparingly is key. He's probably only in Rogue One for around 8 minutes too, probably 6 minutes with Krennic and 2 minutes in the hallway scene. Similarly in Fallen Order he's only using for around the same, a couple minutes of dialogue and a couple minutes of running like fuck where you don't see him: just know that he's behind you somewhere.

[@luxintenebris1776]

@@Yvaelle Less is more

[@alexman378]

Yeah, but while Vader was a memorable character in the first film, it wasn’t until the sequel where he became THE movie villain.

[@TheCrazyPlayer]

I was watching an Twitch buddy of mine play through Fallen Order, and when the breathing came up at the end of the final boss fight, his only comment was, "Oh. So, we lose." I can't think of a more succinct summary of the mystique of Vader.

[@HxH2011DRA]

Lmfaooooo perfect

[@DrJay-iy8rv]

Small details but I’ve notice Vader RARELY (I said rarely) killed stormtroopers. Always the Admirals. He’s a man of the people

[@theeducatedfool]

Darth Vader is the boss that acknowledges your job is hard and talks shit about the other bosses.

[@joshmccoy7899]

The thing with Vader, that has been true since the original trilogy, is that he is all about efficiency. He is literally a 'machine man' so he runs his operation like a machine. And when a cog doesn't work (the various officers he kills) he replaces them. Not personal at all very cold and practical. In the grand scheme of things killing one Stormtrooper would be inconsequential.

[@LAK_770]

He's very Lawful Evil. He respects the chain of command and expects the top brass to take responsibility for their decisions. And don't forget when he forgave Admiral Piett at the end of Empire Strikes Back. He recognized that Piett was as competent a subordinate as he was going to get, and it would have served no purpose to kill him, either as an example or as a change of command. It shows a level of restraint and clear thinking that we otherwise might not attribute to this walking spectre of death.

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

lol barely, saying he's a "man of the people" is a big stretch as more like he takes out admirals more because they are the ones in charge of the troops directly so he puts all the blame on them first and formost.

[@DrJay-iy8rv]

I remember reading the Charles Soule Darth Vader run (master class storytelling for Vader right there) where Vader and some troopers were on Mustafar. These troopers were cheering for the guy

[@cartersmith6628]

I feel like Vader being restricted and dismissed by other high ranking military generals just adds to his tragedy. Palpetine promised him the power to do anything but in the end he just ended up in the same place, a lapdog for a corrupt government and restricted by bureaucracy, only seen by a few of his equals for the reputation he ACTUALLY carries. Sure compared to other normal people he’s practically a god but that’s all just Anakin. Anakin’s skill, dedication and power. So people like Tarkin dismissing him is just the same problems on a different day.

[@afailedlegohero]

I understand why maybe not mentioning the comics wasn't on the agenda (they are even more peripheral than the games) but to me it features one of the single greatest Darth Vader moments I've ever seen. When entirely surrounded by rebel troops that tell him he is surrounded he coldly replies back "All I am surrounded by is fear. And dead men" before annihilating them. It perfectly encapsulates Darth Vader as this powerful unstoppable character. This is from the Vader Down special, but for anyone interested I highly recommend reading the Darth Vader comics as they detail his character very well and do justice to him.

[@earnestbrown6524]

Love that line.

[@LAK_770]

Also from the comics, there is a moment where Darth Maul, defeated in battle, incredulously asks Vader something along the lines of "what could you possibly hate enough to beat me?" - Vader's answer is "Myself." Just such a great moment, it just means SO much and hits so hard.

[@Dragiare]

The comics actually made me put him as my second favorite sith. The unchecked hate and constant pain that Vader carried to fuel his immeasurable power is tragically beautiful.

[@earnestbrown6524]

@@LAK_770 Vader turning on the lightsaber so it goes through him and then kills Maul was great. Dark Horse had some of the best EU content.

[@N38Productions]

He's one of the best force of nature characters ever

[@jonasquinn7977]

I also think not enough credit can be given to The Clone Wars for showing the glimpses of Vader in Anakin and how they grow more and more common throughout the war

[@GrayderFox]

The transition from one to the other benefits immensely from long-term storytelling.

[@EntelSidious_gamzeylmz]

clone wars has everything good about star wars and more (yeah first few seasons are pretty bad though)

[@jonasquinn7977]

@@EntelSidious_gamzeylmz it definitely struggled to find its footing at first, though I’d always suggest watching it in chronological order anyway so that doesn’t matter as much

[@Jo-Heike]

@@EntelSidious_gamzeylmz Everything after the movie is surprisingly decent. There's some skippable arcs and episodes in seasons 1 and 3, but most episodes are still good, and the show picks up in season 2, and 4, and then gets really good. Schaffrillas Productions recently started a series where he was rewatching the clone wars, give it a watch.

[@Jo-Heike]

The clone wars shows the best version of Anakin (in a literary sense). You even get a glimpse of Vader in the ark with the first force users. Also think it's worth watching the episodes of Star Wars: Rebels where Vader appears (as well as certain other arcs involving characters).

[@harshiniyedevelli5278]

A friend of mine once said that Darth Vader started out as just a SCARY GUY, the highly competent underling of the big bad, but after the prequels, and especially with the comics, creaters really started pushing the idea of Vader as this dark angel of death that you can't escape all you can do is run and pray and that's how we know him today, it's not exactly that he got scarier as time went on, he just became scary in a different way

[@Vote4Drizzt]

Darth Vader defines what TV Tropes calls "The Dragon" He's not the ruler of the empire, we see nothing to suggest he could be, but he is the single scariest bad guy and answers directly to the Big Bad. In many ways Vader is more powerful than Palpatine but hes also in a lot of ways subject to him because he has such a hold on his mind. To say nothing of the fact that he *made* Vader in a very literal sense

[@StereoDreams385]

I think what helps zero in on Vader being this unstoppable force is that we know how his story ends. We know he is never truly defeated until his end point so everything before that can be filled with the scenarios of him being this Boogeyman.

[@BanesBasement]

@@Vote4Drizzt Funny you mention the Dragon. The Dragon is repeatedly used as a metaphor for Anakin Skywalker's soul in the Revenge of the Sith novelization, line edited by George Lucas, written by the masterful Matthew Stover. Here's an excerpt: "You remember the dragon that you brought Vader forth from your heart to slay. You remember the cold venom in Vader's blood. You remember the furnace of Vader's fury, and the black hatred of seizing her throat to silence her lying mouth- And there is one blazing moment in which you finally understand that there was no dragon. That there was no Vader. That there was only you. Only Anakin Skywalker."

[@vinyleader4852]

Fear only last until you are ready to stand up to it. But what if it can’t be stopped? What if fear is the only thing keeping you alive?

[@robertdicke7249]

So Darth Vader is space Jason.

[@OfficialDJZR0]

I've been watching the Obi-wan show with my dad and he said something about Vader's depiction in recent media, particularly the ones set between RotS and ANH. He described that interim "Age of the Empire" version of Vader as berserk, almost feral in his ferocity. Because he doesn't have any aims to take the Emperor's place, yet. He's a man who has lost everything that truly matters, given a position of incredible power, whose only real purpose in life is enacting hyper violence. He doesn't have a future beyond his seemingly unending drive to slaughter Jedi. He's humbled somewhat after his failures regarding the Death Star and the revelation of Luke's heritage, and that's when he starts to become the more reserved, scheming and plotting villain we see in the last two films. Suddenly, he has a future, a reason to exist beyond just hunting down Jedi. Suddenly, he's driven by a whole new kind of motivation, and what I think is really cool about that is that both versions of Vader are equally terrifying, for very different reasons. It doesn't matter if he's a near-feral vessel of hyper violence or a cold, calculating pretender to the throne trying to cement a new legacy for his name. Both ideas embody what Darth Vader is, and both are scary as hell.

[@cutthroat399]

Well said!

[@jakemeyer8188]

Here here!

[@CommanderSammer]

Amazing point

[@wgolyoko]

Star Wars Prequels fanfictions are some of the most heart-wrenching fiction I've read, and Darth Vader is a necessary piece for these stories to work.

[@thesenate9562]

Which fan fictions?

[@Baamthe25th]

Lmao, don't leave us hanging, give us names

[@theeviloverlord7168]

Titles please!

[@wgolyoko]

Shit, seems like YT removes links. Check out 'Re-Entry' (series/10129) for example, or on the smaller side 'there but for the grace of god' (works/27187270)

[@maldon3659]

Time Travel is my favourite for Star Wars fanfiction, there's In The Past by Silverdaye where Luke and Vader time travel to the prequels a few months before Anakin falls to the dark side, it incorporates the Clone Wars series which is a big plus as we get Ahsoka and Ventress appearing as well it's also kinda funny seeing Vader get embarrassed by just talking to Padme

[@n00blord14]

Another great showcase of Vader’s unstoppable potential is his encounters with Kanan and Ezra in Rebels, especially their first fight. In much the same way as Fallen Order, the protagonists have defeated threatening baddies and feel like they are on top of things, but Vader is on another level and they fear him like nothing else.

[@bishop6881]

When he caught the ATST I fucking lost it, honestly one of my favorite Vader moments

[@protatype7487]

“If that doesn’t kill him, what will?” Ezra asked, marveling at the immense will of the black warrior to lift an ATST alone. With naught but a hasty glance at that sight, Kanan turns his gawking apprentice around to their ship, their hope of escape, and says only two words. “Not us.”

[@maxaudet5177]

​@@protatype7487quickly followed by "run"

[@rutledgemissroon5983]

After "run" Vader deflects two blaster bolts with pinpoint accuracy. Then allows them to escape because not only is he more powerful but is smarter and more experienced than everyone else. And simply tells the trooper that "the rebels will not leave the system"

[@cineblazer]

"Lucky for you, I have TWO degrees in psychology and edit novels as a day job" Heck yeah, we love a qualified essayist!

[@ltchugacast131]

I believe they eventually retroactively stated that Palpatine intentionally limited Vader to an equal to the Moffs to frustrate him knowing he preferred direct action over deliberation. He knew he hated desk work and decorum and saw to it his day was filled with it to increase his resentment and frustration and give him more to draw from the darkness. Krenick is a regional governor so he has more space to swing his massive balls around.

[@ptolemeeselenion1542]

Hm.

[@calexander7495]

The story of Anakin really spoke to me when I was growing up because I had a false friend for a long time. The little signs and trust violations leading up to a significant betrayal are well represented by Palpatine's manipulations of Vader. Nothing breeds hate and anger like spited love. Whatever their flaws the Prequels are an amazing example of misplaced loyalty.

[@cascas9656]

sure hope you didn't chop any children

[@Cody-5501]

“All I’m surrounded by is fear and dead men” -Darth Vader

[@maxaudet5177]

That scene was awesome

[@TechNinjaSigma]

18:30 to add to this, Usually we'd think that we'd have a short boss fight with Vader to ward him off then escape, but when I and many others who got to this point heard Vader approaching we were not expecting any retaliation from Cal, we the player, the audience KNEW we had to run, and it was so satisfying to have my expectations met when I got the prompt to escape because they stayed true to the character and his power and purpose within Star Wars.

[@s.g.7572]

It does make sense that he's regarded so differently in the OT. It happened however-many-years after the Sith takeover, so it would follow that his reputation fades and becomes seen as more of an urban legend than anything. Likewise, his swordplay would have changed - both because he's physically aged but also (I prefer) he's become so good with the Force that he doesn't need to be flashy - he just instinctively knows where to put the saber.

[@Vote4Drizzt]

I always took the officers on the Death Star talking shit as evidence of the same hubris that Tarkin displays. They think they're in charge of the weapon to end all weapons, Motti literally says "the pre-eminent power in the galaxy". I dont have any difficulty with their attitudes because they think theyre hot shit and sitting on the big gun makes them Vaders equal. Hes still scary as fuck but these guys are high on their own farts, which is why Vader checks him and Tarkin, who actually has the rank and respect to back Vader off, has to intervene. Leia's jab works just as well if Vader was never under Tarkin because she was trying to piss both of them off. I dont think you got anything wrong per se, I just got a different read on those scenes

[@emptank]

If you go back to that scene and watch how the generals who aren't getting choked react you'll notice that they aren't afraid, disgusted or repulsed by what is happening. They look curious and fascinated by the sight of one of their peers getting choked to death with unseen power. It was new to them. They had perhaps heard of Vader and his sorcerous powers but had never seen them. Perhaps they doubted they were real and when they finally saw them at work they were surprised by it more than anything.

[@LahyriAurbach]

as one old master would say: "(...) many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."

[@robertdicke7249]

I think the reason they talk shit to Vader is to demonstrate why you shouldn’t talk shit to Vader. You don’t get the reputation of someone people should be very careful around without some people learning why the hard way and others living to tell. This is necessary in the first movie as until then we wouldn’t have known as the audience with Star Wars fresh on screen for the first time what Vader could and would do.

[@ptolemeeselenion1542]

Hm.

[@rambol1881]

I love that you brought up the Fallen Order encounter. The game's codex is not just any ordinary lore dump, but a "Tactical Guide" that actually tells you techniques for beating enemies, which makes it more impactful when it says that escape is the only chance of survival. And "force of nature" such an appropriate description, in that Cal had to collapse the tunnel and bring down a few hundred meters of ocean on top of Vader's head just to barely escape.

[@TwoSevenX]

Fairly Plain: Anakin Skywalker is the Villain's Journey incarnate, and thus timeless.

[@maxaudet5177]

Yup, tragic, flawed, fallen hero

[@cowboyknyt]

"Surrender you're surrounded" "I am only surrounded by fear and dead men"

[@anniedee8136]

I just want to thank Savage Books for helping me flesh out my characters when I'm writing. You've helped me a great deal when I'm writing my own stories and essays for school. Thank you for being my guide when I felt stuck. 💕✨

[@MrNylenRules]

Big same! He keeps it insightful enough to be able to sink your teeth into while staying light enough to not feel overwhelming to absorb it effectively especially when listening while multitasking

[@MrNylenRules]

Except when he said Anakin was “inarguably cool” -I had to stop and take a minute to process that one lol

[@rat_man]

The Clone Wars show also does a good job of fleshing out Anakin's characterization so his fall to the dark side feels more natural. He seems like an understandably gray character rather than just an edgelord who goes crazy whenever the evil switch gets turned on for the plot.

[@TheKeyser94]

You must not hear the Verhoeven quote: "War make us fascist of all", Anakin was already corrupted by the ideology of Palpatine by the Attack of the Clones, he preferred a dictatorship to democracy, the war only reinforce those ideals, and when he was put under pressure, with the idea of the past repeating itself, the distrust of the Jedi Council and the Palpatine manipulation, he surely would fall one way or another, because Anakin put trust in people, not ideals, and that trust in the end what make him fall.

[@RunningOnAutopilot]

I would argue that the literary suicide of GOT is in the zeitgeist

[@inquisitorbenediktanders3142]

More as a cautionary tale, but yeah, pretty much.

[@Drekromancer]

@@inquisitorbenediktanders3142 Have you ever heard the Tragedy of Game of Thrones? It's not a story the Jedi will tell you.

[@ginebraman]

I think is in Vader Down that he is surrounded by resistance soldiers and they want Vader to surrender or die, and his answer is “I am surrounded by fear and corpses” and it’s fucking beautiful

[@MaxRavenclaw]

I agree wholeheartedly. I was actually hoping you'd mention the Fallen Order appearance. Happy you did. And I also very much agree with what you've said about other franchises as well. I chuckled when you mentioned GoT's "literary suicide".

[@Alastherra]

Nothing could make me more proud than making my kid brother into the biggest Vader fan when he was about 5 years old. He's almost 15 now, and he still absolutely adores him. That's what I call proper education.

[@Poodlestroop]

As someone who was a teen when the prequels came out and remembered them being mocked and torn to shreds for being cringey and silly - especially Anakin - it is amazing to see how they’ve been rehabilitated and embraced by fans to the point where videos like this talk about how incredibly captivating and cool prequel Anakin was. I don’t remember anyone saying that in the 2000’s!

[@air-headedaviator1805]

People like to clown on the sword play in the original, but its actually the most technically intriguing, with skill being genuine. I think thats an important element for any story imo. Vader seems more like he’s suffering from escalation, the character is being more and more powerful to up the anti, becoming a force of nature with no peak, which means at some point it won’t matter and plateau to meaningless capability that is beyond the rules or roles of their universe.

[@shinyary2]

TIL that Vader is slowly becoming Saitama.

[@CoolxBreese]

Having watched the new Dr. Strange movie this past weekend and torturing myself through Dragon Ball Super, I wholeheartedly agree with you. Aside from pastiche shows like the aforementioned One Punch Man, I'm starting to get tired of fictional Gods Among Men and preferring more heroes and villains that have clear limits on their abilities and that have to work around them. Without spoiling Dr. Strange Multiverse of Madness, that movie will have you screaming the whole time, "WHY THE HELL DOESN"T SHE JUST KILL ___ IN TWO SECONDS LIKE SHE DID EVERYONE ELSE? WHY DOESN"T SHE JUST FLY!?!?!?"

[@colbyboucher6391]

Speaking of, I always thought the line "I find your lack of faith disturbing" a little more nuanced than people think in a modern context. It isn't just Vader going "What, you doubt me?", it's Vader having a mirror turned on what he's accomplished, realizing his crusade has been so successful that no one even respects the Force any more. And once Obi-Wan is dead, his whole reason for following the Emperor is sort of gone. Good job dude, the Jedi are dead and literally no one respects the Force any more. You made yourself an endangered species. Is this *really* what you wanted? You already had nothing but anger, now you have nothing but anger towards your own accomplishments. You really did it this time. Luke becomes a real "holy shit, we might be able to keep this alive" kinda project.

[@mikakestudios5891]

Very true about the technical skill aspect. The original blade work was efficient, executing a duel in as few strokes as needed against a fellow master. The newer scenes, like the hallway in Rouge 1, is about feeding on the fear of his victim.

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

lol no just no. It’s NOT the “most technically intriguing” AT ALL especially from the first obiwan fight he had in a new hope. The reason for why it looked so slow and cumbersome like that is because they didn’t know what a lightsaber duel would look like at all so they were just testing it out at first and every movie since then improves on lightsaber swordplay more and more to the point where they become the fast paced deadly ferocious fights as they should be into the prequel movies. Every Star Wars movie improves on lightsaber skill and combat, that’s a fact and they do it better and better than ever. Any movie nowadays, that has swords and blades in locked combat, that even TRIES to have saber fights that are like the original films will get laughed at because of how slow and cumbersome it looks and everyone knows it but people like you are making excuses for why the first saber duel doesn’t look that good to this day. There’s no point in doing that at all. Seriously. I have NO idea with this nonsense excuse of “with skill being genuine” is coming from because that’s obviously not true to that as ALL lightsaber fights take skill and effort and you can SEE the skill vastly more in later movies than in the original movies, mainly in a new hope. Stop making excuses for it, it’s just outdated and that’s all there is to it. It just sounds like your biased to it and making poor excuses and that’s it.

[@timy9197]

This is an incredible video showing the ups and downs on cultural zeitgeist. Also the background music version of the Star Wars music was creative.

[@mohsin90ish]

It's interesting that you emphasize how little Lucas knew about Vader at first with details being fleshed out later since now many people just expect characters entire being will be fully detailed before they even appear on screen

[@_thomas1031]

AMAZING analysis of Vader, haven't heard discussed the bridge between Anikan and Vader being praised in between films before. I'm glad the best of star wars isn't being fogged up by the worst of it, excited for Kenobi🙌🙌🙌🙌

[@EpicNerdsWithCameras]

Coming here after episode 3 of Obi-Wan Kenobi, Vader definitely doesn't disappoint. The minute he appears the setting essentially transforms into a horror movie, and I loved it.

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

That whole episode was amazing and awesome! loved episode 3 as that show keeps getting better and better.

[@HxH2011DRA]

My head canon has always been that the original Obi-Wan vs Vader duel is them just not giving a fuck anymore XD. They know how this is gonna end, but you gotta respect the process enough to at least go through the motions

[@zaczane]

It’s just Ben buying time. He’s not trying to win

[@felicitys3621]

Gotta love Darth Vader. He’s just got so much personality and threatening presence whenever he’s on screen

[@irishspartanstudios]

Not to mention, the animated clone wars series did a lot to improve Anakin's character, also showing how his more positive traits would inevitably lead him to the dark side.

[@Comicbroe405]

A Darth Vader analysis is always cool.

[@whyyes6554]

I absolutely love that you made a video on Vader. I don't care much about the Star Wars franchise, but Vader is magnificently done, and that one scene in Rogue One is pretty much worth the whole movie.

[@jovemokuryu3048]

An excellent analysis. As for the etymology of Darth Vader, I am near certain that it simply comes from the word invader. This being the same fashion as the name Darth Sidious (insidious). Edit: Also Vader being German for father is just a coincidence as George hadn't even considered the idea of Vader being Luke's father until late in the production of Empire

[@iainoftheizzetleague9850]

It means father in some European language, can't remember which.

[@maxaudet5177]

​@@iainoftheizzetleague9850yeah german

[@maxaudet5177]

Yup a lot of sith have names reflecting either their style or simply dark things. 1. Sidious as insidious as you said 2. Vader as invader wich you also pointed out 3. Tyrannus as tyrant 4. Plagueis as the plague 5. Maul as mauling something or simply being a brutal fighter...

[@JohnnyElRed]

For me, the Zeitgeist of Vader comes from another moment: "All I'm surrounded by is fear. And dead men."

[@ZachJ-0]

For anyone who needs context: Vader is surrounded by a platoon of rebel soldiers and they order Vader to "lay down your weapons, you are surrounded". Vader's response is this... And he immediately makes good on this threat.

[@_Backpack_]

To add a bit, Vader is fleshed out even more in the Novels (both canon and non-canon EU), but to an extent I feel books do that to every character.

[@maldon3659]

Do you have any examples?

[@robertreese6903]

The officer scene in A New Hope shows more of the arrogance and corruption of the officers. They believe since they are so high in the empire that they are untouchable and Vader’s actions show how they are still barely anything in the empire. The jab about the leash is exactly that.

[@maxaudet5177]

Yeah but it's also because the jedis and the force were seen as antiquated at that point, only the older officers like Tarkin and Yularen had actual experience and knowledge of what the force could do. The others just heard stuff and didn't believe in it. Until they stopped breathing for a couple of seconds 😂

[@Tirreger]

"All I am surrounded by is fear.. and dead men!" Still one of the most badass lines to ever been written

[@metaforth]

I like how the comics have worked to bridge the gap and explain continuity. Like with him having trouble with gaining respect early on because he just sort of appeared in the empire as far as the officers were concerned and given more power than he'd seemingly earned, meaning in the first few years he had trouble earning the empires respect and fear

[@DinoDudeDillon]

I have to disagree with the premise that Vader has "only improved." I mean he was great in Rogue One but his most iconic appearances remain the original three Star Wars films, especially Empire Strikes Back. And if we want to talk about his character "getting better" as in, by getting elaborated on, I would still say that Revenge of the Sith did more for that than Rogue One. Not that the lava castle wasn't cool.

[@hayleyhistorynerd2211]

Great examination! I think you definitely hit the nail on the head. Vader's post Prequels appearences really do a lot to beef up how strong and intimidating he is, FX wise and whatnot they were a little limited on how the make up of his costume would affect his movements. You're analysis of how the Empire's command staff treat him is very astute. I've always wondered why the staff didn't treat him with more deference, or outright nervousness. It's fascinating that we got to see Vader grow and deepen over the decades, like you say he totally struck a chord with the audience right away, but how powerful and scary he was didn't get unearthed until later. It's also fascinating that the uppitiness of the comand staff to Vader, can be atributed to things that aren't directly shown on screen. I imagine that the command staff don't know about how strong he is with the Force as he doesn't have any need to show it around the staff, but if you're a suspected Force sensative, or rebel goodness help you. As time has gone on with the Empire in place Palpatine has probably had less and less reason to trot Vader out as his bid gun, so the command star are just like, oh that quiet tall masked wierdo that's always hanging out with the Emperor and he has the moniker "Lord" for some reason. Lol! Love your work Savage, always happy to see a vid by you on my notifications! Hayley ^_^

[@savagebooks7482]

Thanks Hayley! Happy to have you around 😊

[@gargoylestories]

I thought you were going to make an argument as to why we the viewers should be less psycho about "canon" and why we should allow characters to grow out of old movies that put them in boxes, which would allow new writers to take characters (such as the Sith) in bold new directions. I would have been really keen to hear your views on that. But it was a great video.

[@whitemat76]

the last two episodes of kenobi help him a lot too. “anakin is gone” is probably the saddest line in star wars and really lets you see that darth vader is not just a big bad villain, but a broken, self-loathing, lonely man

[@KaminoKatie]

Andrew Stanton(the director of Finding Nemo and Finding Dory) wrote the last two episodes of Obi Wan Kenobi and it really shows

[@jeremy1860]

No joke, but watching Vader in Empire legit gave me nightmares as a kid 😨

[@SauceNinja]

for my first introduction to 40K, I immediately knew space marines were not to be fucked with, because they all had vader's faceplate. Not even the entire thing, but just like the mouth part. That was all it took to signal to the uninitiated, exactly what kind of characters these were

[@J_Stronsky]

Star wars Battlefront is another game worth mentioning. Really made you feel like you were this walking Sith force of pure destruction and it's weird how the chunkiness of his slow saber swings, relative to other hero characters, just kind of added to the effect. You could really tell the game designers had to nerf his stats simply for balance, but even then, if you knew how to play the role well, you could really dominate the battlefield in a way that felt satisfyingly true to the character.

[@hb712]

Vader was my go to hero in Battlefront II. Just an absolute monster, if you really know his move set he was an unstoppable force

[@aimanmarzuqi4804]

Darth Vader's recent appearance in the Obi Wan Kenobi series further proves your point about Vader becoming even more fully realised in the Zeitgeist

[@karlfranzemperorofmandefil5547]

i think i actually like that anakin has better feats on screen then Vader. It shows that Vader is basically nothing but a shadow of what anakin could have been

[@snaek29]

Rebel Soldier: Lay down your weapons, you're surrounded! Darth Vader: All I am surrounded by is fear... and dead men.

[@randomiscellaneousness1483]

I think that, in addition to all of the great points in this video and in the comments about Vader's treatment by Imperial officers in A New Hope, there is yet another reason. Not only was Vader supposedly spending a lot of his time between Episodes 3 and 4 hunting down Jedi, but in ANH the Empire was still concerned about presenting a good front to the Senate. Therefore, all of Vader's actions that would have earned him a terrifying reputation would have been top secret.

[@unfortunatelyevil1767]

Some of the declarations in this video were weird... saying few villains pass the silhouette test when we have Ursula and Scar, or even classically Dracula and Adam (Frankenstein's Monster), or elsewhere like Daleks or Sephiroth~ Also, everyone knows what the Snap is... but I chalk that up to all the memes that Thanos was just bring us back to the 1970's population. Infinite power to bring modern consumption back to the population of 50 years ago xD

[@youtubeuser4943]

It's great that the new comics and Kenobi/hallway scene/Rebels etc have really doubled down on badass Vader now we have Episode 5 of Kenobi which is just peak Vader to me on screen

[@OverlyPositiveFanboy]

As much as people rag on the Disney era, we can't deny that Disney always delivers gold with Darth Vader. Rogue One, Rebels, the epilogue in The Clone Wars, the comics by Kieron Gillen, Charles Soule and Greg Pak, Jedi: Fallen Order, Obi-Wan Kenobi. It's just all so good!

[@jonathansolares8065]

This was a great analysis to come back to after watching the entire obiwan series.

[@scroom1202]

Forget knowing the outline. You can identify Vader by the breathing without any need for visuals.

[@jtheodorebird]

I loved Kanan and Ezra's first event with Vader. It wasn't ridiculously dramatic but in one very short battle, both of them and Sabine had been brought down not by an overwhelming power but by a coldness, a defeat, that Vader had placed upon them.

[@Molten-Throne]

These character analysis videos are fantastic! Definitely keep doing them!

[@CrawfordPrime]

Kenobi had my favourite version of Vader who was just pure fear and intimidation while not yet refined as u can see anakin in there while rogue one is Vader as defined and finally formed fear

[@Jo-Heike]

Personally, some of my favorite inclusions of Vader were from Star Wars books. Particularly the Prequel Novelizations (which are better than the films in some cases), and various stories involving Anakin, or Vader in some way. The ones I remember the titles for are Rogue Planet, and Ghosts of Tatooine (marginally). Although, Vader learning how to leverage his suit, and cybernetic replacements, how he ended up tweaking and improving both (due to always having been good with tech, and constantly tinkering throughout his early years). I don't remember where I read about that, but it was interesting.

[@vikinginfidel4293]

18:23 Everybody gangsta until Vader shows up without a health bar 😂

[@Lunacorva]

For some reason, the "Darth Vader Hallway Scene" never felt right to me. Something about it seemed off. I thought at first that maybe I just wasn't into Vader, but his appearence in Jedi: Fallen Order was BRILLIANTLY menacing and carried all the impact that the hallway scene did to so many others. And then I realised... it's the way he's using the lightsaber. It feels completely weightless and makes the strikes feel like they have no impact. No force behind them. Rather than conveying the dominant power of this man, it feels... empty. It takes me out of the moment. EDIT: Replying to the comment and I do understand that he should not be putting effort into his attacks because of how weak the rebels are. To clarify, I'm not talking about the EFFORT he is exerting, I am talking about the IMPACT. I completely agree he should be barely trying, but I feel even a casual flick from Vader should feel to us mere mortals like a hammer blow. The Fallen Order game, again illustrates this a lot better in that he is ripping apart the landscape and dominating you with the most casual of gestures.

[@Funkin_Disher]

Yeah he flicks it around like a swatter rather than driving it into things.

[@zaczane]

They’re just rebels not force users So he was pressing Square for light attack in the hallway scene, because they didn’t have enough health to require Triangle for the heavy attack.

[@Thenonymous1]

That's kind of the point though. The people he kills in that scene are so beneath him, that they are not even worth the full effort of his swing.

[@Drekromancer]

@@Thenonymous1 Exactly. These men are fighting for their lives. But Vader is just swatting flies. They are no threat to him - barely even a nuisance.

[@cloudmaster182]

all these replies are correct, but also, in lore, lightsabers have no weight apart from the hilt, so it would be essentially weightless

[@jerrym1218]

One thing that brings truth with the character of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader, is that we can all become him if we were to lose someone dear to us, and are ambitious to want to make the world a better place, only to make it worse for many others who don’t see things your way.

[@shawnhalls2431]

I can't help but feel this nailed that prediction at the end

[@IllegalTumor]

The best way ive always thought of it, is that vader’s type of scary, grew up alongside us, from a simple big bad guy as children watching the first trilogy for the first time, either in theaters when it came out or as our parents introduced us to him for the first time, and then as all these games and movies have come out in the past 2 or so decades, he has become the force of nature, unstoppable willpower of darkness we see him as now, with that infamous hallway scene, looping us back to his first appearance nearly 50 years ago. (P.S. Savage Books, your videos are amazing i genuinely love to get lost in stories, their concepts, writing ideas, characters, etc. and your channel has always been one of my favorite places to go to get the thinker stirred and come up with great little stories ideas and my own concepts.)

[@Commander_Ray]

Comics and books show off his power even more

[@earnestbrown6524]

"I am surrounded by nothing but fear and dead men."

[@lukeeszeha5381]

As a german i especially love, that you used the german Version of hux's speech. Actually i think the english voice is way more fitting for the fascist theme, but... You know 😅

[@Captain_Insano_nomercy]

I'm German American, so fascist squared

[@big-loss_9043]

1:35 Ah yes that spin is iconic

[@capsuleC0RP5E]

Vader’s scene at the end of Rogue One makes watching that movie worth it every time.

[@jakekreeger5318]

I just want to say that I really appreciate your work. Thank you

[@jakemeyer8188]

Oh...oh how you were correct about there probably being some great Vader points in the Kenobi series. So very much to dig into with that finale...

[@jexelbur6872]

I’m positive that Darth Vader’s design was partially inspired by the Grim Reaper. His mask and helmet are reminiscent of a skull and hood and his cape is the cowl that he shrouds himself within darkness. And his presence exudes fear and death.

[@maxaudet5177]

That and the mythical dark knight representation yeah

[@Angel-kl1ml]

Dude, I love you. Your insight is wonderful and I'm always so happy when you post. thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. They always uplift me.

[@kaiju2296]

My favorite thing about Vader is the feeling that even while he may be the single most powerful individual in the Galaxy, he is far less than what Anakin ultimately had the potential to become had he not turned. He's very much a fallen angel, right down to being lessened by that fall.

[@dominiquejones6849]

And that's without getting into all the gems the comics have gave us

[@LapisLazuliVA]

fallen order and the rebels ahsoka duel was probably the first instances i noticed of darth vader's growth. how at first he was a big dude but then morphed into a literal force (heh) of nature, with no hope of stopping. the way he's introduced just as "it's him." as he emerged from a veil of smoke is a level of mythic prescence that can only be rivaled by one scene early into batman: arkham origins where batman slowly walks up to a goon dismissing his existence as batman's shadow looms over him like some sort of harbinger of fear, or as stated for vader, a boogeyman.

[@raphaeljaggerd3585]

I remember playing fallen order and Vader showed up i was like. Goodbye Cal, it was nice knowing ya

[@thenormalone6753]

So basically Darth Vader was originally the General Grievous of the Empire. A cool looking and menacing enforcer and the leader of the imperial Forces. Powerful in his own rights but nothing like today. Interesting concept tbh

[@EvilFookaire]

Usually when a game throws you an unbeatable boss that just one-hits you into Jesus-land, people will rage-quit and hate the company behind the game. With fallen Order, as soon as I heard that breathing, my reaction was "Well, I'm fucked". No rage-quitting, no hate. Just an understanding of how Darth Vader is by definition the one that ends stuff. And I never felt so excited about a scripted escape-prompt.

[@jole5468]

the sith names comes from insidious and invader with the in removed from the front, so the origin of the names would be dark invader and dark insidious, and then changing them to sound less goofy

[@DarthBiomech]

Darth Vader not just only passes the silhouette test, it is enough to just hear his _breathing_ to understand what deep shit you're in.

[@bradenwelenc7764]

There has been a lot of things Disney has done wrong with star wars. But never, EVER have they wasted Vader. Every narrative he is inserted into has one of 2 angles and they work. Either a. Anakin and the tragedy of his life (see Ashoka or Obiwan) or b. Vader as a force of nature, a killer on par with a slasher monster (see rouge one or fallen order) both are impactful and both work well for the stories they were used in. Vader is a tragedy and he is also the monster in the dark and it's amazing.

[@RustyAymes]

Lucas definitely didn’t think Vader would be a father that far ahead. In early drafts of the script for star wars I’m pretty sure the ages were reversed with him and Luke. Surely the name came from the word Invader? Especially as he’s this big unstoppable invading force in the first scene on the Tantive IV…

[@maxaudet5177]

Yup pretty much, same reason the emperor is Sidious (for insidious since he infiltrated the Republic) or that Dooku was Tyrannus (tyrant)

[@jeroenmeuleman8110]

Maybe someone else said it already but 'Vader' isn't German, it's Dutch. On a slight tangent, words that English-speakers sometimes tend to think are unique to German like, indeed, 'Zeitgeist' or 'Schadenfreude' in fact also exist in Dutch ('tijdsgeest' and 'leedvermaak', respectively).

[@turinturambar1159]

I love your work. Just got done with the Incredibles video... I have to thank you for your way of delving into and observing art.

[@hansoskar1911]

Vader is the charater you can bring out to completly stomp a character that has power crept the entire metagame. and its beautiful.

[@BTAL1ama]

You know I'm not usually inti fan fictio but I really want to see a reimagining of the prequels with Anakin as a side character and we could see his descent from the outside

[@violetleporid]

Are you going to make a Better Call Saul video soon, or wait until the full season comes out? There were definitely some really great moments so far this season that I'd love to hear your thoughts on, like the ending cliffhanger and the "You think we're wicked?" line.

[@hansolav5924]

to any who consider Vader's later developments to 'devalue' how the empire officers treated him(until he proved his power was more than fairytales, anyway)...they were the highest officers of the empire, the Emperor's chosen, as it were. each no doubt considered themselves essential to the 'war effort'. and thus with nothing to fear from the emperor's toy soldier. as we know, they learned differently. :)

[@KaminoKatie]

The Vader is Anakin twist is the Rose Quartz is Pink Diamond twist of its time

[@W1ll_I_Surv1v3]

That's a terrible analogy lmao

[@Nemo-Nihil]

When I read the old Captain America comics by Stan Lee (or anyone really before Ed Brubaker) I can feel the zeitgeist of that period. The thrill of comics

[@i_i8924]

"You can't kill the boogeyman" is why Vader doesnt have a health bar

[@haroldb1856]

Anakin's feats were impressive. He had big shoes to fill.

[@lu_calamardo]

I just looked at the screen in disbelief for five seconds until I realized you played the german clip of Hux

[@Eterco]

"in the battle between ahsoka and vader, we can see the anakin in his masterful swordplay" As vader proceeds to swing his lightsaber back and forth about 5 times