Save money on Central Heating Costs. Fit new radiators, Hive controls.

This video shows the projects I did on my house and gives an overall understanding of how you should be controlling your heating and the money saving things you can easily do in your home.
With the onset of increased gas prices, its quite easy to make some simple upgrades and make savings on your heating bill, which, will mount up over time.
Small changes you make will take effect and really make a difference over time.

[@johnboy1232]

Apologies,this is my first ever comment on your video but to remove a radiator from a wall especially one of any size like the one you changed first is a accident waiting to happen .I was a heating engineer with over 40 years experience and the number of times I have gone to jobs where people have tried the same trick to remove radiators to redecorate and ended up damaging pipe work causing leaks was considerably.I would always recommend turn of the valves check no water flowing from the air vent after the first few dribbles to prove both valves have shut off .Then crack a connection on the rad side of the valve and drain into a bowl.Yes it takes longer but its s lot safer . Under no circumstances would I try to remove a radiator fed by 8 or 10 mm using that method ever,sorry for being so critical because moost of the other stuff was good.

[@steveh3483]

Thank you for your comments. In any job we do and I work in the power industry, we should and do risk assess anything we do. That means we evaluate our own capabilities. If someone doesn’t do that, they shouldn’t be undertaking such tasks. They are the people you have probably had to SOS. I know I’m quite capable of handling the rads in my property. But also, it’s difficult to cover EVERYTHING in such a video. The aim of my video was to put across practical ways of reducing energy costs by managing your heating and not sticking a finger in the air and hoping.

[@Brian77766]

Spot on about the radiator at the top of the stairs. I didn't have room for one, so I installed one on the horizontal bannister on the landing, a designer radiator in white, looks fantastic and now the top of the stairs is lovely and warm with no downstairs cold draught.

[@steveh3483]

I wish I had know in a previous house. Great it worked for you.

[@liammullan2197]

Thank you Steve this is a really good video - structured well, clear and simple explanation, good quality audio and video👍

[@amirseyal]

You have good intentions and know a lot about hydronic heating. I learned so much about the process of fitting the new radiator. I would recommend you watch some of the videos by "heat geek" to learn the science behind hydronics.

[@dennishumphries9406]

Very informative Steve, well done. Dennis from Barnsley.

[@dermotkelly6946]

Thank you Steve , very useful, I have a condensing boiler and I am going to change 3rads and include a fourth rad all on the ground floor of my 3bed semi . You spoke of refill valves on your boiler I have a filling loop is that what you were talking about ? Also does it mater which side of the rad you put the TRV on , left or right ? . Many thanks, Regards, Dermot kelly .

[@steveh3483]

Hi, thanks for the comments. You are correct on the refill loop. There are usually two valves to operate, make sure turn them both off. It used to matter where you put the valves, flow or return, they would resonate. However now its not an issue, you will see an arrow on the body and if it points both ways it doesn't matter. Drayton valves are good they actually have a dial you can turn for the flow direction. What I would say about TRV valve position is, make sure it gets the best position in the room to sense the temperature. Have it at 90' to the rad rather than stood up next to it, in my mind a false position.

[@dermotkelly6946]

Thank you Steve , I will definitely put the TRV controller at 90 degrees to the rads and not stood up . I would have stood them up for sure if I hadn’t seen and listened to your reasoning, thank you. Also I will use the foil heat shield behind the rads that seems a good idea to me. Regards, Dermot Kelly .

[@susanmccall-jt8xq]

Excellent video. So far I've changed 6 radiators in the house, I plan to do another two this weekend 🤞 including a type 33! All in the hope to be able to turn down that Boiler Flow temperature.

[@steveh3483]

Thank you. Certainly if you have enough insulation in the loft. I have installed more Hive TRV's and this increases the saving. If you have a condensing boiler, try to aim for 60'c for the return to be low enough.

[@lorac5539]

Very helpful explanations and advice - many thanks!

[@Nawas-radiator-2013]

very good

[@stardust5397]

Yes - very helpful & easy to understand. Last year I replaced two very old radiators in rooms that never warmed up enough when it was & really cold due to the limited space I chose triple convector radiators & they really whack out the heat without seeming to use more gas. When I had a new boiler fitted last year I was advised against switching too many radiators off ( I have four rooms I rarely use) as it would reduce the efficiency of the system but I don’t understand the logic behind this advice?

[@steveh3483]

Thanks for your comment. Seems strange advice, all boiler pretty much are modulating, that means they regulate, or modulate, ie, the output goes up and down depending the the demand. The demand is measured by the return temperature, if that is low, the boiler will ramp up, if the return temperature starts to go up the boiler ramps down its output, you can hear the fan follow that trend by revving up and down. A lot of plumbers always oversize radiators and boilers to make sure they get pleasing results from the customer. However, one true issue, if you have rooms you turn radiators OFF in the condensation in the house will got o that room, that coldest place. It is good practice to fit thermostats on rads in every room but the room with the room stat and have the rooms warm enough to avoid condensation.

[@stardust5397]

@@steveh3483 I had an enormous problem with that 3 years ago as I was hospitalised during ‘The Beast from the East’ & then recuperated at a friends house for several weeks , my Sons were meant to be keeping an eye on the house, when I got back there was so much damage by mould & condensation I wanted to cry & it cost me lots to fix. My house goes on the market in October I need something easier& cheaper to manage !

[@damod4416]

Hive is basically a posh on off switch. If you go with Nest it has the capability of Opentherm, far more efficient. Not an expert , but using Opentherm has cut my gas input by around 17% 👍

[@steveh3483]

I agree, however you need a capable boiler with open therm input, it monitors the weather and temp outside.

[@davidadiwego4608]

I wish I did have a TRV on radiator in the area where thermostat is, because radiator is quickly heating the area and switching thermostat off before radiators in other areas of house get a chance to heat up. Now, I've had to find out the hard way about balancing radiators: something which penny-pinching heating cowboys should've done

[@steveh3483]

I had my reply ready, after your first sentence, but you have answered it and thats exactly why you dont have TRVs in the room with room stats. You would think that a lot of plumbers would be clued up, but they just dont seem to be. Unfortunately a lot are just about getting the job thrown in and get paid and get gone. Many years ago, I had an extension built and a new boiler to be fitted, when delivered I saw it was the wrong boiler, the plumber was reluctant to change it but it was a system boiler rather than a heating boiler, would have been no good for the vented gravity fed system in the house.!!

[@paulmac1532]

Thanks Steve.

[@fablan3308]

you're lucky you had enough movement on the pipe 🥧 for one of my radiators it was perfect but for the other two I'm going to have to move the pipework

[@arekarek1991]

I hope Britons will start invest properly in their houses.

[@namAlexander]

that rad your changing is brand new compared our round tops 1974 lol.. just got two too replace upstairs' but i bet ill change the other two, you need tapered extension tails though and cut down, one rad will just have tobe locksheild as its all blocked with a bed ect it seems a waist too fit one, thing is if you change a single rad too a double wont that class as 2 radiators as a 30kw combi is recommended upto 15 rads

[@steveh3483]

Hi, Thanks for your comment. I know what you are saying about the age of the rads, but trust me in how little it convected compared to now. The rating of a 30kW boiler compared to rads you mentioned sounds like a plumbers very rough rule of thumb. Its old hat. Completely depends on the rooms, and heat loss. The idea of this project was to reduce the boiler temp, therefore increase the convection area, control of the heat in the rooms. So some rads actually shut off during the time the heating is on now especially the one at the top of the stairs and the bedroom. Its working well after a year and heating bills are as low as they could be especially at this time. The rad you put in the bedroom without a TRV, see how it goes regards the room temp.

[@namAlexander]

@@steveh3483 I changed one the other day and even after the system cleaner was put in not long back and run for a week, when i took it outside the black mag/rust that come out i was shocked they must be causing air locks even though there's flow , still got another todo but i think ill also change the other two also, as the new one is still the same temp so it has tobe the rads as i could never balance them upstairs even with the old gravity system they were all manual locksheilds and bathroom trv is on full and that rad is newer but i think once there all done take that off and run it though with the house i may as well

[@coachBux]

Thanks some great advise

[@Chequr_Prostate]

I do like the hive trv heads, and they have saved us money. Now have they saved us money taking into consideration the cost? Not yet. It can also be frustrating keep changing batteries, (we have 20 radiators) again this is additional cost and is not environmentally friendly if that is a concern to you.

[@steveh3483]

That is a lot of radiators. Best idea is maybe to use eneloop rechargeable batteries. You can charge them quite quickly and I think they would last quite a while. You should never have to then buy batteries. However, why do you change batteries so often? a lot of operations or cheap batteries? the TRV's will need an about of current, it is a motor after all.

[@garynicholls72]

You didn't tell people how to put PTFE on the threads of the valve tails if you did it the wrong way it will unravel from the threads. Gary here from the UK I'm an old heating engineer. Don't forget to balance your heating system afterwards

[@steveh3483]

Valid point and very true. My system is not very large and I have no issues with starved rads, You are correct i could have covered balancing but that would have made an already long video, too long.

[@garynicholls72]

@@steveh3483 thank you for your comments

[@eddierae8945]

That Drayton 414. With an adjustable flow regulator. So no need to touch the lockshield keep it fully open then?

[@steveh3483]

correct. But it will depend on your system. Smaller systems, in my opinion, dont need balancing unless you have a problem. Old terrace houses which are long, ie, the farthest rad is quite a way down the property, will need balancing. Hot water always finds the shortest route.

[@louisvl10]

yea new radiators are more efficient. but what about the really old cast iron ones? i like how they keep radiating heat even when the heater has shut off. are they really that bad for gas consumption? i really like them for comfort and they would be a pain in the aaaaa to get out....

[@steveh3483]

You are correct, they do radiate for a while after. However, they are not that efficient in radiating. In the early days it was thought best to have a lot of water in a system. However it took a long time to heat that water. Once up to temp, it was fine. Also the temp of the building could over shoot, as the radiators are still giving out heat when the set temp is reached. However a modern control system like hive, should learn this curve of heating and cooling. I would say cast iron radiators are good in a house where the heating is on all the time, at a low level.

[@louisvl10]

@@steveh3483 good point with the overshoot. might need to look into a smarter system than a dumb thermostat to learn and adapt to eventual overshoot. you are right about the water. the old steel tubes are HUGE here. it takes the old heater here at least an hour from dead cold to over 60 degrees C.

[@louisvl10]

maybe with a modulating gas heater and some smarter thermostat system, i could reach way better efficiency. thanks for your thoughts :)

[@MrRawMonkey]

Hive does not allow modulation of the boiler so wastes energy.

[@steveh3483]

I agree but the boiler has built in modulation..... and anti cycling. Any system is not perfect, but if it wastes energy, it wastes less than it did,

[@MrRawMonkey]

@@steveh3483 my understanding is that for a boiler to modulate it needs to be told to modulate by a suitable heating control.

[@steveh3483]

@@MrRawMonkey no, modulation is built into modern boilers, its controlled by the return temperature, the cooler the return the boiler assumes it needs to work harder so ramps up, when the return temp increases the boiler thinks its doing its job so ramps down the output. Thats modulation, has nothing to do with Hive or any other system, they tell the boiler to be ON or OFF, nothing more.

[@jasonsanderson3612]

Hive has TPI algorithm built in to prevent overshooting set temperature, and an anti cycling software to prevent short cycling of the boiler. The Hive thermostat also learns how your property heats up and uses that in controlling the boiler. The boiler has modulation of the gas burner built in as part of its own control system, and will modulate itself.

[@davideyres955]

@@steveh3483they are talking about opentherm and weather compensation. I’m not sure how those 2 systems will do more than just sensing the return temp but my guess would be that it keeps the boiler in condensing mode for longer because it knows the internal temperature. All a boiler can do is tell the return temp so it will hit the temp and then modulate. The opentherm can modulate earlier to extend the time it’s condensing. It would just heat up slower in that instance and not cycle as much. Can’t see what it would save a ton of gas but that would be something only controlled testing would prove. Also if you look non combi there’s differences in the amount of heat needed for heating and water. Without the thermostat sending signals to the boiler the heat requirement for both is very different. You can get away with much lower return temps for heating but hot water needs a higher temp to kill leagonairs bacteria at least every 2 weeks. I’ve got a feeling that Hive dosnt work with opentherm so that’s what they are saying. Good Video though.

[@0707581]

Hi Steve what is your view on radflek?

[@codyleebrown4345]

Hi Steve, thank you for the video. I have a Thermrad super-8 Compact radiator. Would it be possible for me to use the side ports instead of the bottom ports to connect inlet and outlet? Since spacing between the bottom ports and floor is tight. Would this be acceptable? If so, would I experience any radiator efficiency losses? Regards

[@steveh3483]

Hi, sorry for the late reply, I'm not familiar with the rad? The inlet and outlet must give you flow across the rad to give the req'd heat output. You say there isnt much space under it, a radiator is a convector heater, so needs to drag heat in to the bottom and its heated as it rises through the convector. If the space is tight at the bottom its not going to be as efficient, but if that what the space allows....? Is a different rad an option? you can get triple panel rads, that might then allow you to get a smaller one?

[@philb1730]

Hi Steve, Thank you for a very informative video. Over the past year we have done pretty much everything you mentioned in your video and we are now at the changing radiators stage. I was very interested to here you say that the you should not have TRVs on radiators in the same room as the thermostat. We have two radiators in our living room with TRVs and the thermostat, should I remove both TRVs. Also do you have any recommendations as to the best place to site a thermostat? Thanks

[@steveh3483]

Thank you for your comments. You should not have TRV's in the room with the room stat, because it could be possible that the TRV's could be satisfied and shut down, whereas the room stat is still calling for heat. You should also have at least one rad with no TRV for somewhere for the hot water to go from the boiler, again its possible to have TRV's on every rad, the boiler is still firing when they could have all shut down and the boiler has no where to send the hot water and will 'kettle' Its usual to have a bathroom radiator wide open all the time, for this purpose. Room stats are best in your living space, away from rad's, draughts and doors and sunlight. Not always easy to achieve. Mine is on the adjoining wall in the centre of the house and seems to work best. You set the room stat comfy for the living space, then using TRV's setup the rest of the house to follow. Most houses may have the room stat in the hallway, not always the best place, but the temp would be lower, again no TRV's in the hallway in this case.

[@steveh3483]

Just re read this ad rather a long winded reply. If I were you i would just remove the TRV heads or leave them on 5 or whatever is max.

[@Chequr_Prostate]

I may be wrong but I believe that modern boilers no longer require you to have a single radiator with no TRV. My plumber also told me that if you have 2 zones with an older boiler then each zone should have a radiator without a TRV. As I said I do not know if this information is correct.

[@mgtowstanleyzoltanov9808]

Why do you buy type 22 radiators? I think it wastes money whats the advantage over type 11?

[@steveh3483]

In the video I explain the difference. But to recap type 11 is single panel single convector. Type 22 is double panel double convector. To lower the boiler temp you need to increase the heat output of the radiator? To get the boiler to condense, ie its more efficient... Hence the use of type 22, in many cases it speeds up heating a room, but if controlled by a TRV, the results are beneficial. Why do you think it is a waste of money?

[@mgtowstanleyzoltanov9808]

@@steveh3483 In the room before which is about 10 square meters I had a double panel radiator about 1 meter. I reinstalled 2 meter single panel radiator and it does a better job at heating up the room. Given its because of larger size or I think it doesnt waste so much energy on the wall too. Because on the double panel radiator the back panel only heats up the wall and thats it.

[@leonperry123]

The first number is 1 single and 2 is double. The last number is the number of fins. So 11 is a single with 1 fin. 21 is double with 1 fin. You should get a 21 or a 22, 22is the better radiator to buy for heat output

[@MaximusJohal]

I have Hive controls and yes it can move the heat around rooms that need it but it works when it wants to, it has to keep calibrating which costs alot of money, DON@T buy hive.

[@patterdalezipsuzilil]

So basicly make your house air tight stop any outside air from entering the house and enjoy breathing co2 😂

[@steveh3483]

Not completely. Properties will vary. Some have air vents in the windows and walls. In any event you have air changes in a room. No one has yet suffocated in a room 😊 The heat losses are due to this in part. My property has a low heat loss, some are better some are much worse and that alters how much energy you have to put in.

[@anonymouse68]

Great video, thank you so much.