"Saving American Capitalism" with Nick Hanauer

[@canteluna]

"There are no socialist successful economies on planet earth." For better and or worse, capitalism is the economics system of all societies, they are either more or less market driven or more or less state driven (such as China, Cuba, etc.). I could mount an argument about how the sociopolitical powers that be would not allow socialist systems to work but for the sake of Nick's point, I'll let it go. I will just take issue and say that his statement implies that socialism is inferior to capitalism. I am not here to say whether it is or isn't only to put his statement in context. For most of human history, we lived in egalitarian, "socialist" economies. I am not suggesting a return to hunter-gatherer social organization but I am just pointing out that reciprocal social organizations are natural to human beings. The ultra individualist (there was not even this concept in hunter-gatherer societies) social organization of capitalist economies is the result of complex socio economic chance. To over simplify the issue, after we formed agricultural societies and populations grew, egalitarianism diminished as the division of labor developed to the point where privileged people had the wherewithal (sanctioned by religion) to designate some people as slaves. It was rationalized as necessary for the economic well being of the social good. To make a long story short, the long struggle for the emancipation of slaves (that still goes on today in the form of wage "slavery") is where individual rights comes from and individual rights are the hallmark of modern social organization and capitalism. Hanauer is not making a moral argument, although it has moral implications. He is a capitalist and understands that capitalism works best when its true "nature" is understood, as opposed to its mythology (i.e. trickle down/supply side). I am not here to argue for or against capitalism, only to point out that even if we save capitalism from its excesses due to blindly accepting myth over nature, we still have the major problem with capitalism, which is that of externalities.

[@ProfDCoy]

As a democratic socialist, the best way I can put it is to say that capitalism and socialism are principles, not systems. The capitalist principle is to apply 'the market' to a given problem or area of life. Healthcare for instance, or for another example the creation and supply of computers. Socialism is the principle of apply a non-market solution something along the lines of "from each according to their abilities; to each according to their needs." Both principles can be applied appropriately; and both can be applied inappropriately. Capitalism within healthcare has failed. The answer, in the area of healthcare, is socialism. Strict state socialism across the whole economy has failed;the answer is applying the market to the distribution of goods and services, like computers, that aren't absolutely necessary to live within the 20th century. So saying that "socialism has failed but capitalism has problems" is about as true as saying the opposite. The principles work within the areas they work but not within the areas they don't. This is basically what Hanaurr is saying, but it does leave the door open to a rhetorical slant that' very misleading:that capitalism is responsible for all of the good things in society but none of the bad things; and anything socialim is good at (like healthcare) isn't really socialism (because that failed doncherknow) but is in fact just smart leaders and policymakers cleverly correcting capitalism. Which is just a very careful and deceptive way of admitting "actually socialism is very good at some things". I don't disagree with most of what Hanaurr is saying, and he's obviously putting things the way he is because it's more comfortable to the audience he's talking to. But it is still an argument that can easily make it seem like socialism is all of the bad things and capitalism is all of the good things.

[@marqgoldberg7454]

Past time it was replaced by a more equal and more efficient economic system. An economic system that allows 3 people to amass as much wealth as the bottom 175 million Americans is insane.

[@debbiedogs1]

Great, really enjoyed this! Lots to think about, although some ideas I have read before (which is good, more people on the same page, thinking of what we should be aiming for and prioritizing). Thank you, Nick Hanauer!

[@WALLACE9009]

Listen to this man, please.

[@trombone7]

Lecture starts at 5:37.

[@Servoengr]

Mr. Hanauer , in my opinion, is able to explain the issues of income inequality better than most. And historically this has been very important for human civilization , failed empires and countries, etc.. However, he still does sound a bit like an optimist, thinking we only have to fix a few things for all our fellow human beings, and then everything good will follow from there. However, I would suggest that he might want to consider, and put down on the large balance sheet of Capitalism, the fact that we all live on a ball, a terrarium, floating around in the middle of outer space. And so we need/must include the economic "externalities", which will imply that there are internal limits to this global system; i.e. the birds, the fish, the animals, the trees, and yes, even parsnips and rhubarb. Because if you make the world great for every human, we are still going to need the other stuff too to survive. But, good luck to him and his efforts. He is trying.

[@GreedLeedsToNothing]

Awesome! Thank you very much Mr Hanauer.

[@dexterdylan5781]

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[@ramonjaxson1373]

@Dexter Dylan instablaster :)

[@dexterdylan5781]

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[@dexterdylan5781]

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[@ramonjaxson1373]

@Dexter Dylan Happy to help =)

[@kennethslayor8177]

Nick and I would disagree on a great many things, but on this one we are lock step. He is the only voice in the elite I consider a friend.

[@davidstewart8906]

I know this is 6 months old, but what disagreements do you have with him?

[@kennethslayor8177]

Off the top of my head, the 1st and 2nd Amendment to start. Like those who actually understand what religion really is, I am disgruntled with the ignorance of both the Left and Right in their treatment of it. While the Right promotes ignorant and irrational superstitions, the Left works to protect religions it labels primitive as a defense of cultures it patronizes in every negative and paternalistic way. At the same time, the Left uses the Lemon Test to inhibit the expression and practice of the religions it labels hypocritical because the practitioners value ethical standards which every person must fail to meet. Yet, the Left continues to judge by these same ethical standards where it doesn't interfere with the personal behaviors of their hedonism. The understanding the Left desires for the 2nd Amendment is one that would leave all citizens subject to a military policing power under anyone who elevates themselves to dictator. And in this current election, both major candidates (Trump and Clinton) are perfect examples of those who would happily commit any violation of privacy, any run around Constitutional checks and balances, or even the obliteration of the Constitution altogether if it should promote their interests. Both are sociopaths and pathological liars who wake up in a new world every time they approach a new microphone. While Mr. Hanauer predicts that the "pitchforks are coming", his position would ensure that it will only be pitchforks against Dragon Rounds and fully automatic machine guns mounted on tanks as we experience our very own Tiananmen Square. It is not unlike Lincoln's council when he wished to suspend the right of habeas corpus, as they argued that the Bill of Rights were merely peace time provisions to be set aside during war or to secure the safety of the public. Like most men, Mr. Hanauer agrees with the pro-Choice position. This is a position which devalues human life, just like General Ishii Shiro when he ran Unit 731or the German's when they defined Jews, Gypsies, Gays, and Christians as lesser humans during WW II. The defining of human life as worthless or worth less has always been a key factor in justifying the murder of those lives. While there are legal precedents for the justification of state and private executions of human beings, all of them except abortion, require a deliberate criminal action on the part of the person to be executed. While I doubt Mr. Hanauer accepts this as a description of his position, that can only hold true so long as the unborn are defined as worthless. Yet, if someone through violence, accident, malpractice, or negligence costs a parent the life of their unborn child they are held responsible of the death of a human being. These are things I can think of off the top of my head, where I have observed Mr. Hanauer leans in favor of those opposed to my positions. On economic matters I consider the adoption of Middle Out Economic policy to be critical, so critical that I was willing to elect Senator Sanders to President in spite of those places where I feel his positions would only increase the oppressive actions of Left leaning organizations and departments - rather than seeking real social justice.

[@wwtdwhatwouldTONYdo]

What planet do I live on where no one gives a shit about what this guy is saying?!? 4 years and only 11k views and 47 comments? Jesus people! Share some shit!

[@douglachman7330]

Suggested thinking and consideration. I like the term ecosystem and think its obvious.

[@havoc092]

You can have any theory of economics you want. If the Federal reserve can destroy the value of money by printing more as it does with regularity - keeping people poor no matter how much they earn.. no theory will ever matter because it will be undermined by the central bank. Further, smarts isn't a replacement for ethics. Educating someone just makes them smarter about how they are unethical. So we have to deal with the issue of ethics and morality in a way that discourages the unethical because otherwise we're right back where we started with sociopaths holding all the money.

[@utahcountyrealestate5097]

Judeo Christian values helped there. Being attacked now.

[@havoc092]

J Chamberlain That's just ignorance on display. Killing gays or anyone else is anathema to Christians. The Whole point Jesus made was that judgement of a man's soul lays in the hands of God alone. And no the previous person didn't 'cherry pick' the nice bits. He just seems to know the bible where you know sound bites. As to the enlightenment.. really. Study history much?

[@jchamberlain8548]

Jesus is a nicer part but that he dident exactly rip out the nasty bits of Leviticus or the parts where you sell your daughter to the man she slept with rape or consented for fourty pieces of silver or killing homosexuals or stoneing adualterers there's plenty of nasty bits you ignore

[@jchamberlain8548]

Society slowly corrected the nasty bits I meant Christians cherry pick the nice bits google what Thomas Jefferson did to the bible

[@jonnymahony9402]

He is dead right. But all of this is not about that everyone can have a better life. It's about power, and it's class war. There were many cases where large corporations could profit for example selling a part of a company to the workers, but they didn't because of class war reasons.

[@coopsnz1]

left bullshit

[@coopsnz1]

small business owner is a middle class consumer creating jobs , well they try but democrats 30 yrs taken more money

[@ivandate9972]

did he never think that raising tax makes company flew overseas ?

[@nkmarks]

ivan date Yes he made so much money by not knowing such "details" .....

[@jaioxung]

+ivan date Ummm, most of our manufacturing is already overseas. Companies are already stashing billions off-shore. At this point companies would be hard pressed to find another first-world country to move to that would tax them less. But let's just continue to funnel all the wealth into a few people's coffers until there is no money to spend and our economy collapses.

[@jonnymahony9402]

+ivan date Only big monopoly companies. But one gives a shit about them, they are criminals anyway.

[@davidzubiria3783]

+ivan date Your question is a good one. I saw a comment talking about war classes, missing completely the point. But what I think is : The fact that you made a successful business doesn´t mean that you understand the logic of economy.

[@danteshydratshirt2360]

+David Zubiria but its more to do with fairness and morality of letting hyper rich individuals and corporations screw over politics and basically every non rich person

[@psychicspy]

It's not about who gets rich. It's about how they get rich. Giving the poor money so that they won't be poor will reduce productivity due to the opportunity costs. The poor must provide value in exchange for becoming rich.

[@danteshydratshirt2360]

interesting talk but of course one aspect that is ignored is....after a certain point the problems being solved are trivial if not imposed - for example blu ray over dvd over video . there are situations where the market is created through advertising not problem solving...and just look at the budget of the US military - create a problem and demand more money LOL that the middle class are the cause of a renaissance - does this guy even acknowledge the working class - oh lets help the middle class and everything will be ok I'm on the question and answer thing and he seems to be struggling - nice that he is trying to get people to challenge established views of economics though

[@Aegis23]

Perhaps you do not know that the middle class is the one that can drive the economy in a real sense of the word. Not the rich, not the working class. Reason why it is a great pointer for how well an economy is going.

[@brettarmstrong4452]

Man I forgot how good this was. Just watched it again. What a rough audience though!! Not one peep or titter at Nick's initial humorous statements.

[@brettarmstrong4452]

Not sure why you think he was struggling. He crushed every answer.

[@utahcountyrealestate5097]

Nick lives in a fantasyland. He is virtue signaling about what a good, caring person he is despite paying his own workers no more than the minimum wage. Here's the thing with the "poverty rate": the poorest people in the US live better than almost everywhere else in the world. He says he has issues with socialism in his intro, but then he discusses creating a country like the Scandinavian countries that these socialists want to emulate aren't nearly as wealthy. For example, if Sweden was to become a state of the US, it would have the LOWEST median per capita income of any state, ranked 51st. yes, worse than Mississippi. He really thinks the condition of the human family has leveled off or gone down in the past 3 decades? Seriously? Even by his definition that prosperity should be based on improvements rather than GDP, with all the advances in computers, technology, the internet that assertion is idiotic. Industries he refers to that could contribute advances like medicine (one of the most heavily regulated, and therefore expensive and risky to develop) and air conditioning (electricity, heavy government regulation) have issues precisely because there is already too much government intervention hampering innovation. Computers have had more innovation, but also less regulation than the aforementioned industries. He also mentions support of socialist systems, government-controlled systems like the public monopolizing of education. So ironic how many of the problematic areas he brings up ARE run, supported, and funded by the government. He's even more socialized health care, 85% of small businesses fail, and then raise the minimum wage? Mutually exclusive. Great point. Capital gains rates are low because government encourages investment in an area by decreasing the tax in that area. This is common knowledge. Government has incentives in real estate because it has an interest in creating housing, for example, and knows it doesn't do it as well.

[@jchamberlain8548]

I googled Sweden it has a higher median per capita income then the USA

[@utahcountyrealestate5097]

J Chamberlain Well if you googled it that settles it, if it's written it must be true! Here's the reference. Statistics and facts or it didn't happen: mises.org/blog/if-sweden-and-germany-became-us-states-they-would-be-among-poorest-states

[@jchamberlain8548]

Their seems to be some different sources as the 43585 or 58997 mean per capita but either way I'm from Australia and I'd rather live here with more services like healthcare and a safety net and a better standard of living then you

[@jchamberlain8548]

Also our minimum wage is 17.70 and it hasent raised unemployment or tanked the economy so

[@1mtstewart]

what is the source of what Mr. Hanauer pays his employees?

[@jonnymahony9402]

He is dead right. But all of this is not about that everyone can have a better life. It's about power, and it's class war. There were many cases where large corporations could profit for example selling a part of a company to the workers, but they didn't because of class war reasons.