Savvy Navvy - Navionics | Navigation Special

The argument goes like this... 'Charts are old fashioned, unnecessary and difficult to use' ... 'No charts are essential and it's unseaman like to set sail without them, period!'
Well I started sailing a good decade before GPS. All my sailing was done with a sextant, RDF and dead reckoning on a paper chart. When I started I was a teenager studying pure and applied maths and preparing for a astro physics degree so celestial navigation was right up my street. I liked nothing better than taking sun and star shots & working out my set & drift to carry plots forward and get that cocked hat as small as possible to nail my position. It was great fun and I could get a calculation done using the air tables or Reeds in minutes.
So what's my take on navigation at sea now? You may be surprised!
If you're interested in trying Savvy Navvy then Ben at the Pro Marine Store has some deals at the moment, the basic is 20% off but there's more if you buy other things from him, which is what I did.... www.promarinestore.co.uk/savv...
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[@savvynavvy]

Thank you for putting this together Steve. We were eager to see how someone would review us in direct comparison with Navionics (to be honest, we fancied our chances). We'd be really happy to answer any specific questions from your viewers and hear their feedback after using the app - we have a 2-week free trial too, so they can dip their toe in the water with no risk. The savvy navvy Team

[@svfairisle]

And if you do want to buy it I’ve put a link in the description to where I got mine with a discount.

[@svfairisle]

I didn't go into pricing as it gets complicated depending on what version you want and as I said I got a discount through Pro Marine Store, but you can check it all out at... www.savvy-navvy.com/

[@goeasy1232]

Does S-N do weather routing?

[@savvynavvy]

@@goeasy1232 we do indeed. Simply drop two pins and you get a route factoring in wind and tide. You even see your tidal vector on screen when you zoom in.

[@trevorcard9752]

After Steve's excellent review of the brilliant features of savvy navvy I decided to take a look at it as I am planning a couple of routes in the coming weeks. Both routes raised issues, but I could not find a way to manually influence a route. Please let me know if such a facility exists. The first was Chichester Marina to Poole which was initially fine, but on closer inspection it routed me through potentially dangerous waters off the Needles. I wouldn't normally choose that route. The second was Lefkas Marina to Preveza. The auto routing didn't know about the swing bridge at Lefkas so routed all the way around Lefkada. 55 miles instead of 9! Before I use this system it needs something like a 'via' function to avoid such issues. I am familiar with both these locations but if I wasn't I'd be worried the auto routing could land me in difficulties.

[@HumanityWillPrevail]

Returning to sailing after a break of almost 20 years has been a revelation. As someone who always used paper charts, I seldom do now. I have 2 tablets and 3 phones all with native GPS (not network) running navionics and savvy Navvy and a plethora of other apps which have all but made paper charts obsolete. This direct comparison was really useful and I also tend to use both apps for much the same reasons. Savvy navvy for planning and Navionics for actual passage making simply because I find the Navionics interface simpler and easier to read when sailing. Great video, really instructive and good to see some of our frequent haunts too!

[@RusstafaB]

An excellent well thought out demonstration, Savvy Navvy looks very interesting. Thanks for the time and effort, and of course the navigational skills, and experience to help us all.

[@themagicgecko1053]

As a USCG licensed Captain, former Schooner Captain, offshore racer, and sailing instructor, I truly enjoyed your review. Short and concise while highlighting the most commonly used features of both apps. I too grew up on paper charts (using the old LORAN-C system!), and I too use both these apps today.

[@martijn2m]

Very educational and inspiring. I am going to dive into savvy navvy as well as combining navionics with my onboard raymarine.

[@bally1213]

Thank you for posting this Steve, brilliant tuition 👍

[@SirPrancelot1]

Good information, thanks. Hope you have a great summer cruising.

[@grantrodgers2829]

Have used Navionics now for many years and find it incredibly useful, especially as we are doing so much family inshore sailing. That and predict wind for the forecasts. Yes its a faff to use multiple apps, but I know them and trust them. Redundancy of systems is key, I always have at least two devices with navionics on board at any one time. Great tech corner. Thank you

[@Cptnbond]

Thanks for this interesting review, and as you said it's always pro and cons with what ever solution you choose. I will indeed have a closer look at Savvy navvy. Cheers.

[@timlees660]

Another informative and interesting film, thanks very much

[@davidbarrett7424]

Great comparison, thank you! I sail in the Bristol Channel and tide planning is really important to me..

[@antonynr]

Great info Steve! I've been struggling with the UI on qtVlm for a year now to get weather routing, Savvy Navvy has at last produced what I wanted with a decent Navionics style UI!!

[@rodcoop119]

Thank you doing that, easy to understand description. Great compassions too.

[@andrewjagoe-salter8754]

Excellent presentation, I have played with both apps and will use both for comparison.

[@JenandPen]

Excellent. I learned so much today. Thank you!

[@SkipperSiCoates]

Simply brilliant summary - thanks

[@disabledglobalchallenge290]

Great feature on Savey Navvy. thank you.

[@creatamax16]

Great precise video no waffle, earned a subscribe and will check out your other videos. Cheers guys!

[@harrytimes8002]

That was an incredibly helpful video which has pursuaded me to download savy navy ( along with Navionics which I presently have ) - thank you. Henry

[@savvynavvy]

Great news Harry, we have added a few new features since this video which you will see in the app and more coming soon.

[@DaveJohnEllis]

Another great video, very good overview and comparison. Interesting to see how you Navigate. I’m sure we’ll see an update after you’ve used Savvy Navvy in anger. Thanks again

[@63melvyn]

I’ve learnt more watching this video ,then any class room I’ve attended

[@svfalcon3440]

Another great video Steve. Practical and informative for cruisers. And how refreshing AT LAST to hear from someone as experienced as yourself, that you don’t carry charts. We have precisely the same set up as you. Navionics and Savvy Navvy on multiple devices (Plus Nav on the B&G). They are both brilliant. Nav costs £40 for U.K. Sav Nav Elite £65 for global coverage. SV is far better for route planning under sail and the app just gets better and better all the time. We like to plot route and then flick between different days/times to find the fastest route. Far more accurate way of judging sailing time, taking into account tacking/tides/wind. Sav Nav also allows us to pull off our final route (via email) with relevant waypoints as a GPX file which we can load via an SD card onto our Chartplotter. So we use Savvy Navvy for passage planning and Navionics for passage making, If Savvy Navvy could make the visuals for depth contours a little more detailed and visually readable (not enough contrast/colour etc) then I reckon we’ll only need one app for the future.

[@svfairisle]

Sounds like you’ve got a great set up & yes I think the next generation will look back and laugh ‘ you did what?!!’ when they find out we have all this tech and some people still chose to draw a line of where they think they are on a piece of paper! I’m looking forward to playing with Savvy Navvy for passage planning.

[@ianqv]

Really helpful - I learnt a lot re the Navionics. thank you

[@charliemcgrain]

Great content as usual, many thanks.

[@juan6168]

Wonderful vídeo. Congratulations.

[@mpdsailing]

Brilliant presentation!

[@MartiA1973]

Worth subscribing for this comparison alone - thank you

[@billhansen3211]

Well done. Very informative. Thank you.

[@whispjohn]

I was at sea in 1969 and as an apprentice navigating officer and all we had was charts, we used to get admiralty notices in most ports with corrections to charts, like a change buoy lighting or a moved sandbank etc. We had to correct them where relevant. We took noonday sights and worked out the position using that and dead reckoning, it was within a few miles which is ok while out on the open sea. I am still here to tell the tale. I knew sailors who could predict the weather pretty accurately from years of experience behind them, they were real sailors. These days a simple rope splice will have most "sailors" a bit lost. NEVER rely on technology it breaks down. learn the basics, using a sextant and dead reckoning, trust in your own abilities and practice taking sights each day.

[@svfairisle]

Yes I did all that, very glad I don't have to any more.

[@TrueFilter]

So never sail then as you are relying on all sorts of technology.

[@FreedomSalon1]

Another great vid. In the States, Sirius Weather provides a weather overlay for Navionics on Raymarine. It is a little pricey with hardware and subscription but it only has to save us once!

[@sandystephen7827]

Another excellent tutorial !

[@meldwebb]

It might surprise you, but as a computer based instrumentation designer, I will always have a belt and braces paper back up. For those of us who sail more modest boats on a strict budget we have to be more circumspect. I learnt my lesson depending on pure electronics on a cross channel trip. The alternator failed and by the time I was 10 miles off Alderney my batteries were exhausted. Thank goodness for paper charts and my half hourly recording of position.

[@svfairisle]

It does surprise me yes!

[@cornelisvanderbent8569]

@@svfairisle I'm a software engineer too and also plan to have paper charts when doing longer passages. iPads only have half a day of energy when used intensively. Better have a few years old paper charts than nothing.

[@driesdejager4049]

Will deffinately try out, not sure it is any good in Madagascar. But will try anyhow. Great tutorial!

[@garrycampbell1211]

Great Thanks Garry

[@SailHosailing]

Well-argued and easy to watch as always, thank you. There's no doubt that GPS and electronic navigation have made sailing safer, and we (probably the MAIB too) would argue that any skipper would be crazy not to use the instruments they have at their disposal. On the other hand, we'd be very nervous without running a combination of paper chart and written logbook alongside electronics, even for short journeys. Whatever else happens, the pencil marks on the chart and in the book are going to be there for the duration of your passage (or until you sink - in which case, the whole discussion is moot). On questions of tide and weather, it really takes no time at all to calculate these manually and keep them under observation (though of course it's nice to have them presented graphically). It might be a problem to suggest to novice sailors that electronics are the answer in this respect, as there's a risk of running into danger in the same way that a driver might end up in a ditch - because the GPS said it was okay. Where we're really with you is the fact that charts are only as good as the day they were produced (Exmouth, for example, seems to change every tide). It's easy to update them, of course, but if you consider that some areas around the UK were last surveyed in the 19th century, it would suggest that neither paper nor electronics do quite the job that a good eyeballing can do :)

[@svfairisle]

Yes the biggest downside to electronic charts is people who think that means they don't have to use their eyes. You can't really blame the tech for that though, no system is perfect but usually errors are of the human kind no matter what!

[@SailHosailing]

@@svfairisle That's certainly true. And we've certainly made plenty of errors using electronics and paper. We've found that mistakes on paper are more easily traced, though.

[@richardstamper5630]

Nice steady and informative review, just a bit shocked to see the lack of life jackets during that Italy / Croatia crossing? Anycase, we run a Garmin 10" auto routing Nav system which is very powerful but sometimes that's to its determent. With the Garmin we get extremely detailed charts but I can really see the beauty of running the Savvy Navvy alongside, mainly for the tide and wind information. The autoroute facility was something which sold us on the Garmin but in saying that, it can only be used when you are on the boat with a GPS fix. We like to plan our routes in the comfort of our home and then transfer them to the plotter but the autoroute function keep trying to navigate from our home position 120 miles inland. Of course we can create routes with waypoints but with modern electronics it's nice to take away some of the guess work. I suspect we will run Savvy Navvy to see what it thinks and then replicate this on the Garmin and save it as a route, mainly because the Garmin has Nema and a through hull depth sounder, plus the screen is extremely bright. It would be a real bonus if we could create charts on Savvy Navvy and then pump them into the Garmin but I guess that's asking too much. That or Garmin do a firmware update allowing us to create an auto route from any given location.

[@davidtilley2168]

Hi Steve, After carefully reading your reply to the issue of paper charts I will concede to your argument but I also wish to thank you for the demo and analysis you did on these 2 options for electronic navigation. I have been using NV paper Charts and their accompanying (free!) chart plotting software for about 3 years and have been happy with the results per se but the current electronic charts went out of validity last month so I decided to do some research before shelling out to renew the NV set or an alternative. NV seemed a very capable chart plotter in that it has inclusive weather and tidal stream overlays and the Auto-routing function included but after 3 years I had never quite figured out how the Auto-routing worked so I contacted the NV help desk and after much faffing around I was told it was not yet available in UK waters (you have to toggle off Auto and put waypoints in manually). I have now done a trial of Navionics and Savvy Navvy and the latter seemed like the best fit for me - but wait, I like to do my passage planning on my MacBook (larger screen) and the App on the Mac said I needed the latest M1 processor to use it. I was also unsure of whether my iPad (which does not have a SIM card for mobile signal) would allow GPS tracking. Unfortunately, after 48hrs dialogue with the Helpdesk at Savvy Navvy I was not able to get a definitive answer to these questions so I came back to this video and got contact details for Ben at Pro Marine Store. Ben is an absolute star and seems to know far more about Savvy Navvy than their own Helpdesk! So thanks for the video Steve and a huge vote of confidence and thanks to Ben. I will be spreading his praises and giving him the first call for anything I need for my boat

[@ByMyRecords]

I will have you know I have watched all and I do mean ALL the top youtuber Sailing channels and you're Sailing Vessel, is dare I say the sexiest!

[@matthewlutter3745]

Very interesting and we'll put together video. The three videos of yours I have watched are all excellent.

[@svfairisle]

You've only watched three!!!

[@svfairisle]

I'm joking, thanks for watching :)

[@life.sunsets.sunrises]

Great edit and info

[@alexfajardo8809]

I’m trying to look at those apps, but all I can see is your lovely boat 😍

[@georgehallmey8360]

Excellent video, I've also used Neptune Navigations systems for passage planning, it gives me optimal times of departure based on tides and can import wind grip files. Might be interesting to compare in a future video. George.

[@richiesworld.]

Great video Steve very informative, more navigation videos would be amazing:)

[@svfairisle]

Glad you liked it, we’ve had a few sections on navigation in recent episodes as we’re tracking back right through the Med this season & across the Atlantic. I’m putting together a little look at the Orca system that I’m trying out so watch out for that

[@davidclarke7728]

Very informative, I’ve taken a trial with savvy navvy

[@richardmathews6552]

Really helpful. Thanks.

[@johnwaugh6518]

very useful thanks

[@johndorward5270]

very informative many thanks

[@christophecubier8326]

I’m satisfied with Weather 4D on Ipad with also Navionics. The 2 systems are complementary

[@RichieKeane]

Love SN as a planner and plotter with the boats instruments as primary. only thing to watch is sometimes the routing and depths can be squiffy sometimes. SN say its the settings but would always preview the route etc always download the maps before you set off..

[@Sailingkiss]

Liked this, as a novice coastal sailor found the review helpful

[@peterlee7553]

Thanks, I agree with your conclusions, I haven’t dragged my sextant out for years. Have gone completely electronic been using Navionics for some years but thought your review was very informative. SEAiq is another app with similar features that works particularly well in US waters downloading charts and weather data directly from the NOAA website.

[@savvynavvy]

We use NOAA data and thats included as part of your global chart, tide and weather pack which is standard Peter. Happy sailing.

[@lasol2474]

As a slow learner, I appreciate the way you explain complex things in simple terms. I understand people use GPS these days but I am very curious to learn how a/the sextant works (are they all the same or are there variations?). I hope that you can come up with a video to explain how it works. Thanks Steve!!

[@svfairisle]

The sextant is actually very simple, the mathematics involved in translating that to a position line not so much! The job of a sextant is purley to give you the elevation of whatever heavenly body you are taking a shot of, i.e. it's height above the horizon as observed by you,. The sextant is designed so that by moving the central lever arm the image you see of the star/planet/sun can be brought down to just touch the horizon and the scale on the side will give you the angle. So you need a clear sky and a clear horizon to do this. You can then enter the angle you found into a formula along with a few other things like your height of eye and you will get a line you can draw on your chart. I'm sure there are now good computer programs to input the figures into but I used to use Reeds or the Air tables to do it. Remember a single shot will only give you a line not a fixed spot position so you need several shots, the lines will intersect and three shots should give you what we call a 'cocked-hat' a triangle that hopefully is not too big if your shots were accurate, and your position is somewhere in there.

[@matbailey7730]

Also got a good deal on Savvy Navvy and really enjoying it

[@savvynavvy]

That is good to know Mat! Hope you have a great season.

[@cjgreen5]

Really interesting to see how you use electronic navigation apps - amazing how quickly they’re taking over navigation and making built-in options and paper charts less relevant. Thanks!

[@SVZonda]

Steve another great informative video. (I for one, don’t think “you are dangerous”!!). I like the idea of using both programs for different situations. I think where this will really be useful is when you are going into a harbor that you have not been before. I find it interesting that Savvy Navvy (thanks Dave) has left you a comment AND has replied to others comments. Seems like a great company. Time will tell. BUT nothing from Navionics?! All the best Richard.

[@svfairisle]

Yes Savvy navvy seem to be very on it with help and also with feedback. There's even a button that comes up, bottom right hand corner, to send a message straight to one of their staff if you get stuck. Not sure if that extends to coming out and towing off a sand bank if you get really stuck!... might need the RNLI for that!

[@cosybike]

@@svfairisle The RYA Planning app can do that. It has its limits tho. Could be operator error but Mine called Clyde Coastguard when I was cycling up Buchanan Street in Glasgow. Will just save up pennies for an EPIRB!

[@briangilliland3620]

Yes, I found SN responses excellent but Navionics hasn't been the same since Garmin took them over. Silence is the loudest that you hear from them unfortunately

[@DoubleUThings]

Thanx for this review! First several day trip in our lives is coming up (Kefalonia - Malta), so it's a nice "second opinion giver" to see if we don't do stupid things. 😁 Happy greetingz, Wim

[@SailingFridaafWisby]

We have sailed cross the North sea and in the Baltic sea with only electronic charts. Now we are going to the Med but now we got some old charts that came with boat

[@svfairisle]

Well no harm in having them, see how much you actually use them. I like the large scale ones for thinking about where to go & where we've been, but don't actually plot on them any more.

[@timoldman1147]

Great information and clearly explained. What brand of fleece is the ‘Norwegian ‘ Brx technology . It looks very comfy. Tim Oldman

[@svfairisle]

Yes it's really nice actually, it's just something I found when we went up to Lake Garda. The make is Scuola Nautica Italiana

[@CamsWoodcrafting]

So I'm not a sail boater, but I actually watched your whole video, and I actually learned a lot I was very interested in the side by side, I didn't want to go out and buy a radar and mapping system that would be very very expensive, so I find that the ipad's and apps side by side work really well, and its cheaper I am interested in knowing if on the routing will it following you or its just a static map thank you and yes I subscribed

[@svfairisle]

Yes all these apps show your current position and follow you just like a GPS in a car. Tablets and phones have very good GPS modules these days so you will always know your position to a couple of meters. The only device I know that doesn’t have built in GPS is WiFi only iPads, ie the ones without a SIM card slot. You don’t have to have a working SIM card it’s just these models don’t have GPS, at least they didn’t used to.

[@thepigwillfly5869]

Great info, thanks, I am just now in the process of trying to decide what I should do for a second chart plotter and this help immensely. Say, do you have recommendations on dinghy? Alum Keel/Inflatable Keel/FG Keel......Hypalon/PVC......High Pressure Floor/Solid Floor???

[@svfairisle]

Have a look at the video we did on our Truekit dinghy. This is the best I think in the lightweight range, it goes into materials & things

[@DavidWilliams-bt6qe]

Thanks for putting this together for savvy navvy plus Navionics, would Samsung a7 with 4g be sufficient for those apps.

[@DrZond]

Navionics Boating has a distance and heading tool that I love. I sight an aid to navigation with my compass and get a heading. However if I start to take a second bearing, the first one vanishes. If the app was able to accumulate up to 3 lines at a time, it could be used to get a fix. Sometimes the satellite datum could be off, or the chart can be inaccurate. It's also a way to be sure the object I am looking at is what I think it is. I sent Navionics a suggest that they give it the ability to retain up to 3 lines at a time. Maybe if you like the idea, you could suggest it and they would listen to you more than me.

[@SwissGoat]

Great intro to both SV and Navionics, Steve - many thanks. I’m curious about the “no charts” strategy, with a bunch of iPads and phones as a replacement. You mention they’re sensitive to heat, water etc. which can be a nuisance, but with the eccentricities of Musk, sabre-rattling by Russia, 3rd World War conspiracies in the background, how reliable are satellites in the near future? Running out of your subscriptions without internet access could be interesting. The “no charts” downsides apply in light aviation as well….

[@svfairisle]

All these platforms work by you downloading the charts so they are stored on the separate devices. If the satellites went down all that would happen is you would loose your little position arrow, ie be the same as a paper chart! If WW3 is starting I think precision navigation would be the least of your worry’s!

[@ThomasMorleyceramics]

I have savvy navvy. If you put it on tides, click on your chart, say over an area where the information tells you the lowest mean depth is, say 8 meters; in the diagram to the right that pops up it tells you that at low tide it is 2.3 meters. Also if you click on a tidal river and it says it is -0.6 at lowest tide. when you click on it again the diagram on the side will say 1.4 meters say ?????? If i take what it says then I will run aground or not go particular directions...

[@bobrose7900]

Ever tried using a chart in high winds and rain? No, consigned to the saloon table... They both seem invaluable and very effective on a tablet - we're basing out next hardware purchase on these bits of s/ware. So far the Ipad comes out best, and it's got a built in barometer, surprisingly useful. Great reference review, well done. I didn't think Savvy Navvy would run on a laptop... does this require an additional license?

[@Jarek12010]

Good info, Steve, thank you. Keep them coming ;-) Since I am already here, I am having the hardest time finding the manual for Navionics, the tutorials from various sources I find sorely lacking, maybe I am getting old and dumb. Would you know how to delete a waypoint in Navionics? Or shorten the route you have laboriously prepared by removing the end waypoint? Better yet maybe you could make a video tutorial for Navionics, I find your presentation style very clear, concise and to the point.

[@svfairisle]

Ha! It’s more to do with having nimble fingers than being old and dumb… that’s my excuse anyway! To delete a waypoint (even the end one) just quickly tap on it and a little red box with ‘delete waypoint’ will pop up. If you hold your finger there for more than a split second it won’t work - be quick & nimble, pretend you’re 20 and in a rush!

[@jarekkanios2697]

@@svfairislethank you. It works ! How did you come up with this? It is not particularly intuitive. Especially the speed. Do you have a manual?

[@svfairisle]

@@jarekkanios2697 I don't have a manual no. Every now and then I do come up with something that stumps me and wish there was a good way of sorting out how to make something work, it's where I am with the Orca system that I'm testing at the moment. Luckily I've worked with most other systems long enough to have found all the idiosyncrasies now.

[@clivealexander3862]

I really enjoy your Technical Corner features, keep them coming please! I am about to buy an ipad for putting my electronic charts on, what specification would you suggest, as there are loads of different ipads? Which one do you use?

[@svfairisle]

We have an older iPad Pro and an iPad air. I fancy the larger new iPad pro, bloody expensive though!Just make sure you get one with built in GPS, the non sim versions don't have it (or they didn't that might have changed)

[@Neptuneboy1959]

@@svfairisle a workaround I've used to get GPS to non-sim iPads, is a GPS dongle that plugs in apple charge/ data port, (Lightning, USB C). Bad Elf is model I've used, allows charge cable connection pass- through.

[@sailingmarie7097]

Steve, did you check out Time Zero yet? You should if you haven’t yet.

[@andrewpeacocke7508]

Great Steve, any plans to review the weather apps?

[@svfairisle]

Funny you should say that, I fired up Predict Wind (which is my usual choice) as we sailed out today and noticed they've added a couple more prediction models. I've tried to do a bit of a comparison before in a couple of episodes between the European and the Global models. I'll have to do some research on these new models and then maybe compare it with some other apps, it would take some time though to get a bit of a feel for which ones tend to me more accurate.

[@calmwatersailor1947]

Hi Steve, regarding screen brightness at night with Navionics, have you tried Invert Colours on your iPad? I have set this as a shortcut, three taps on home button to use Inverted Colours and three taps again to revert to normal. Great at night 👍

[@svfairisle]

Didn't know about that, I check it out, thanks.

[@philippebensussan1270]

Thanks for the review. I still use paper charts for my pleasure and an iPad with 2 apps: iNavX with vector Navionics charts and Weather 4D with raster maps from SHOM and UKHO. I use Weather 4D for routing, and export routes to iNavX. You can buy outstanding e-book tutorials by Francis Fustier for both apps in French and in English on Books. In order to increase the battery autonomy of the iPad, I keep the GPS of the iPad on « off » and I use the GPS signal of the AIS by wifi. AIS targets are also uploaded and presented on maps on both apps by wifi. My cockpit is far less protected than yours. My iPad is in a water- and shock-proof case by Andres Industries. The only issue is an insufficient luminosity of the screen in full daylight. You can buy from ITabNav on internet Andres cases as well as adapted sun-shades. Fair wind! Philippe (Malango 870 Loarwenn)

[@svfairisle]

All good info, thanks Philippe

[@nederlander66]

Always.!!!!!! Order paper charts online or by package delivery for the trip ahead ,they are updated and ready to use. Simply because one single worst time event,and you are without power ,charts and compass will be left behind ready to use. As a master mariner in offshore I would give this advice .

[@svfairisle]

Except you will always have your compass, with the right precautions you will never be without power and good luck having charts sent when you are sailing around the world. I just down loaded the whole of the Eastern Med yesterday as it happens, took 10 minutes and cost a total of about £15 on many different systems. Charts would be hundreds of pounds, I would be waiting here in Montenegro for them for weeks and crucially they are nowhere near as good for all the reasons stated in the video!

[@nederlander66]

@@svfairisle in the professional world we always keep training on worst case scenario's that,s why my comments. love the show and keep posting vids.

[@markjennings2315]

I tried the free trial of Savvy Navvy and ridiculously it still had lots of essential features locked out so the planning/use trial I wanted to do was impossible to do. Thats like going to do a test drive in a new car but the dealer not letting you leave the car park!! I decided to stick with Navionics.

[@davidcusworth5602]

Hey mark - sorry I just saw this. When you take the trial, you can use Elite so get all the functions. We've also updated many since this demo, so some new and exciting additions - all FOC.

[@jacquesleroux5882]

Spot on, Steve - including your comments on redundancy and WWIII fears. I place much more confidence in a handheld GPS, batteries in shrink-wrap, and a fold-up solar charger in the life raft than grabbing a paper chart and pencils on the way out and hoping it will survive the prevailing conditions. Each to his own, but the Luddites do appear to be particularly reactive. And obtuse. Unfortunately, Mr. Sextant et al still appear to unnecessarily complicate the curriculum for Yacht Masters and other qualifications, putting off many youngsters. This is no doubt a result of the curriculum being set by those of a we-had-to-do-it-and-so-will-you mindset. Morse code, ditto; it should all be the territory of anoraks instead of still being taught in navigation. I find it akin to expecting learner-driver to how to saddle a horse before licensing them to operate a motor vehicle. Just in case, you know!

[@svfairisle]

Ha! Yes as is so often the case tuition will lag behind with its Luddite tendencies and the old salts that just say it’s ‘unseamanlike’ to go to sea without paper charts without understanding the alternatives.

[@jacquesleroux5882]

@@svfairisle Ed Zacchery. Human nature, the comfort of the familiar, confirmation bias. I imagine there would have been resistance to the sextant too, when it was a new technology... Oh, the irony! 🙂

[@davegoulding2409]

Hi Steve, is there an option to upload your Savvy Navvy route to your Navionics system for auto pilot etc? Cheers... Great content by the way, how things have changed over the years...

[@svfairisle]

No doesn't work with auto pilot, I suppose some motor boaters might want that, but I can't see it being of much use on a yacht?

[@matjam8305]

GPS is good for a basic idea of where you are but my plotter always has me on land when I am nearby. I prefer to rely on visual and paper charts near land and my two phones each with numerous GPS maps (particularly the Russian ones which are difficult to find now). And always place importance on the compass and general heading with mental notes for when veering off and for how long. Even small charts/maps can be effective as long as you can make rough distance calculations to get a general idea. I am leaning more and more away from tech due to all the issues associated with them. However as always multiple (backup) systems is always a benefit.

[@matejlieskovsky9625]

Must be a problem with your plotter or GPS maps. Modern GPS receivers can have accuracy better than 1m. What setup were you using?

[@matjam8305]

I have a Raymarine plotter. Pretty much every gps device I have has me nowhere as close as you are saying and my gear - phones, tablets, computers are among the best on the market since I use them for work. And what I said about showing me on land is very common. Anyone foolish enough to rely on their GPS to navigate rocks or at night rather than visual deserves their outcome.

[@matejlieskovsky9625]

@@matjam8305 Interesting. My tablet is nowhere near being best on the market and I generally get accuracy to within 10m once the GPS synchronizes. My friend has an external GPS receiver that he used at work and that was reliably getting a position every second with an error of roughly 30cm. No idea how it did so, but dedicated hardware is dedicated hardware. From what I've seen so far, I would not be surprised if it is the charts that are off. But yeah, GPS is no replacement for a pair of eyes on watch.

[@matjam8305]

The accuracy is much better in urban settings where there are many towers to amplify signals. For instance I can pinpoint myself on my phone to withing 10 meter s (not 1 meter - wasthat a typo?) Sailing along the coast where the coast is steep or there are disturbances (many) often means being off by much larger distances of miles. Why's is this? When sats are high above so the angles off the coast should be nothing. Well let's just say things do not work the way we have been inculcated to believe. Suffice to say there are many things that are not as they really are. Cheers

[@matejlieskovsky9625]

@@matjam8305 That sounds like your devices are using ground station triangulation instead of actual GPS. If you wanna try figuring it out, I'd try turning off "improve accuracy" (which is what my tablet calls mixing GPS with ground station triangulation), going to airplane mode and/or running some GPS testing apps. Hard to tell what exactly is going on, but GPS should not behave like that at all.

[@JJ-sq9sy]

Thank you for this very informative and well presented video. We learn so much from your presentations. If working below, can a stand alone iPad pick up a GPS signal or is it necessary to connect to an external GPS Antenna?

[@thearchibaldtuttle]

Shouldn't be a problem if you are not in a steel hull. Never had any issue when using the iPad below.

[@svfairisle]

IPads are really good at holding on the GPS signals, having the iPad on the saloon table is below water level as Fair Isle sits well into the water, but never a loss of signal. If you have a steel boat then something like the GPS puck I showed in the video will do the trick.

[@dagnall53]

You need the "3G" Ipads to get internal GPS.. for soime reason Apple were too cheap to include the GPS on the "basic" versions... But you can use a standalone or ships GPS with a Wifi router to get GPS into these programs

[@svfairisle]

@@dagnall53 yes good point about the 3G iPad, I meant to mention that in the video.

[@thearchibaldtuttle]

@@dagnall53 Happened to a colleague. He got an iPad as a gift from his wife and he was all excited to use it for our next sailing trip. I had to tell him his model wont work. He has a girlfriend now.

[@michaelkruger7022]

Thank you for this comparison. I tried SavvyNavvy on a 360 nm non stop around Seeland DK. It‘s a pity that SavvyNavvy doesn’t allow AIS overlay, but they say this is coming. Much more annoying is that SavvyNavvy wouldn’t accept a route under the Great Belt bridge, apparently thinking that this is a land barrier, suggesting a detour of 124 nm around Odense, I.e. a Full day of sailing! I understand that this is a new system, and I very much like the idea of a weather overlay, but shouldn’t the map material be ok? Maybe I made a mistake? Will see.

[@michaelkruger7022]

I chatted with Kevin at SavvyNavvy, they actually say on their website, that Denmark is not covered with high res maps. There is an issue with the Danish government or so. So it’s actually more my fault, not looking which regions they cover.

[@svfairisle]

Ah yes thats right, they're waiting for Portugal too.

[@gerhardvanwaltsleben8944]

Lekker man lekker

[@francismontocchio9910]

🇿🇦

[@mikekcarey]

At the moment we have paper charts and a ray marine c70 plotter fixed at the helm planning to get a iPad ( yes we don’t own a iPad) will the iPad we buy need cellular to work Savi nav ?

[@svfairisle]

Yes only the cellular ones have the GPS chip (or they did, may have changed in the last year but I don't think so) You don't need to have a sim card in it for it to work though, it uses no data for GPS.

[@SteifWood]

Hello fellow Mr Norway. I agree you may be better off with day-fresh electronics if you sail in un-known waters. However, since sub-surface rocks, waypoints and charts haven't changed much since the vikings sailed the local waters here up in the North, I will continue to use my paper charts - at least as back ups when I'm hit by lightning and everything goes black.

[@svfairisle]

Whatever floats your boat... and keeps it floating!

[@ginocavicchioli7559]

Excellent presentation Steve🙏 Thank you. My wife wishes to learn the sexton. Can it be used on electronic charts? I hate to get paper charts just because she has a sexton.

[@svfairisle]

You need paper charts I’m afraid. A sextant shot just gives you a line not a direct position. So for instance the ‘noon shot’ which is the easiest one to do charting the sun at celestial noon will give you a line of latitude. If all you’re going to do check your latitude on a long passage then I suppose you could just look at it on the plotter, but it will kill the fun as the plotter will know exactly what latitude your at! ( still good to test how accurate your sextant shots are though ) With a chart you can do the whole thing properly by bring the line forward by dead reckoning then do star shots to by bisecting lines and you ‘cocked hat’ which shows your somewhere within the cocked hat. Then your trying to get that cocked hat as small as possible with further shots but to be honest until you get very good at it the only time you manage to bring the cock hat down to a size less than a couple of square miles is by bearings from points on land or more usefully in the old days using an RF direction finder but unfortunately they aren’t transmitted any more.

[@robinkendall8953]

Great comparison thanks for your time and sharing it. Will be looking at Savvy Navvy. I think nowadays there is a great reliance on electronic charts and mostly they are ok but certain circumstances are not updated..Navinoics give the impression of thousands of updates every day but this is not true of all tricky entrances subject to change by shoaling strong winds etc... Take a look at The River Deben entrance Suffolk on the up-to date Navionics chart viewer on there website to see what I mean. (Buoys and banks shown all over the place!)They get away with this by a small warning sentence...There is an up-to date chatrlett on the East Coast Pilot website from Imray which completely contradicts Navionics.....My point is, you have to take into account all of the available information to ease the anxiety of sailing,and not religiously rely on your charts....Electronic or Paper.... Happy and safe sailing to you both... Robin

[@svfairisle]

Yes that's very true, the biggest mistake is to do something because it's marked on a chart rather than believe your eyes. I once filmed a story of a guy who turned onto a railway track because his satnav said turn left, so he did!

[@pauljamison3340]

The storage behind your cockpit is it something you purchased and put there? If so where did you get it from?

[@svfairisle]

No all Hans Christians have the teak boxes from new. They're all different as you could specify amount size shape etc. We have extra

[@michaelkruger7022]

Just became aware of SavvyNavvy and so it‘s good to have all the information from you. Thanks. Now since Raymarine apparently stopped RayControl to have a usable surface on the iPad, I am trying to get Navionics to display AIS signals. I have to install another NMEA to Wifi box, which I will do this weekend. Does SavvyNavvy display AIS as well? Cheers Michael

[@svfairisle]

It’s the next planned update as far as I’ve been told. David from Savvy Navvy has commented on here so he may be able to pitch in with an update to that

[@savvynavvy]

@@svfairisle thats correct Steve. We're making changes to the weather routing feature for route saving and sharing as well as AIS integration. Our aim through all of this is to add features that are of real value while keeping the user experience as clean and intuitive as possible. David.

[@erkful]

@@savvynavvy a distance measuring tool similar to navionics would be a bonus

[@savvynavvy]

@@erkful thank you for the comment/suggestion. That is on our roadmap and part of the exciting route planner update feature. Along with a couple of other groundbreaking improvements. David

[@savvynavvy]

@@erkful you can do that now simply by dropping two pins and it tells you the bearing and range, this is part of the route planning feature. Do you mean separate from route planning? If so, then there is an additional feature coming soon that will allow you to measure distances from any point on your route.

[@chrisvalford]

I purchased two small craft portfolios containing all the paper charts for Spain, and they came with keys for the whole Med, which was nice. The problem I have is that my iPad Pro draws too much current for the average 12v/USB car style charger, so doesn't charge properly. How do you charge your iPads? Ah, just watched the last couple of minutes and seen your bike lead. So now the question becomes, have you seen any chargers which can supply more than 1A, the iPad Pro is really hungry when the battery is low.

[@svfairisle]

Yes just make sure the USB socket you fit to the boat supply 2 of 3 amps at 5v. We have them all around the boat, inside and out. Some are 5 amp. P.S. try and get ones that are dual with a USB C socket as well as lots of things are moving that way, I'm sure iPads will.

[@YeOldeTraveller]

Diversity is useful in many thing, particularly where safety is concerned.

[@sailingcalmedbythesea7495]

Great video thx. What is the iPad bracket you use in the dog house? Ive been scouring the net for a decent one and that looks good!

[@svfairisle]

I got it off Amazon, I see if I can find a link when we get back onboard, but it’s a desk stand really, I had to drill some holes in it to mount it. Lasted much better that the plastic ones we’ve had before though.

[@sailingcalmedbythesea7495]

@@svfairisle that’s my experience so many “brittle” mounts. On the market. 🙏🏻

[@svfairisle]

@@sailingcalmedbythesea7495 yes a couple of months in the sun & theyre done

[@guyfrawley9662]

What plan of Savey Navvy were you using, they have three options?

[@svfairisle]

I have the Elite version, got a good discount for it through Pro Marine Store

[@SVZonda]

Steve I have RE-watched this episode again as my torn between Navionics & Savvy Navvy. What are your thoughts as you have used them for awhile now? All the best Richard.

[@svfairisle]

I still use Navionics over Savvy Navvy but that may be just because I’m more used to it. I definitely prefer it’s charts for depth. Having said that being in the Med at the moment with no tide means I don’t use that function on SN maybe if I did need it I’d prefer SN? I don’t find the wind forecasts accurate enough to make the routing that useful, but again the Med has too much local weather to rely on forecasts

[@DeanColegate]

Thanks Steve, that was a very interesting comparison. As a Navionics user I'm keen to see if new pretenders can knock them off their perch. There is another factor in the electronic vs paper charts, as you're planning a circumnavigation have you done any research into likely costs of both for the whole trip?

[@svfairisle]

I haven't worked out exact figures but I once read somewhere that a full set of charts for the whole world would be in the region of £20,000! I think Savvy Navvy would be cheaper than Navionics because Navionics charge by areas, but without charts I would want a couple of electronic options anyway plus one for the boats chart plotter (which is always more expensive because of the usual 'oh it's for a yacht lets charge 10 times the price!' ) but we're talking hundreds not thousands, and of course open CPN is free.

[@savvynavvy]

We offer global chart access as part of one subscription Dean so a circumnavigation with us would cost £65 per year (if you had the Elite subscription).

[@DeanColegate]

@@savvynavvy Wow, that sounds pretty incredible. I presume, and forgive my ignorance here, that companies like yourselves base their core electronic charting on the the same raw data and it's the way you present that data (plus weather/currents/etc.) that differentiate your product?

[@savvynavvy]

@@DeanColegate Thats correct .We take hydrographic office data and then build savvy charts from that. As Steve mentioned in the video that means leaving out some data which isn't relevant to leisure mariners - like submarine cables 100's of feet below the surface. We try to keep your view clean and easy to understand. Our routing algorithm is the "magic" and unique in the field currently. No one else gives you a true weather route. But if you don't want to plot a route you can quickly and easily get a visual indicator of the conditions.

[@sphynx098]

Not sure if this is a stupid question but can't you just download the predict wind GRIB file and view it offline instead of taking screenshots?

[@svfairisle]

Yes you could do that, obviously both ways once off shore you'll be working with old forecasts. I usually only resort to the grib files if I'm trying to update a weather forecast while sailing and I'm only getting a weak slow signal.

[@fordyceeldred9409]

Surprised your not using Aquamaps

[@MarcelloH]

Steve, can you please tell me which gps tracker you use to connect the ipad with?

[@svfairisle]

I did buy an external gps puk years ago but I don’t use it. The inbuilt gps on the iPads (and iPhones for that matter) are so accurate and reliable it does it all itself. I think it’s still the case that you do need a version that can take a SIM card though, you don’t need to have a SIM card installed however it just that the ones without don’t have gps.

[@claypass8424]

Am I wrong, but with paper charts and a sextant, don't you have to have the most current (annual) reduction tables for accuracy, so it's not only charts you have to carry, but pages and pages of the most recent almanac? Which at first I thought, well, just download those to a laptop, but then that defeats the purpose of a no electronic solution doesn't it?

[@simons780]

Very useful and interesting. I've had trouble with Navvy Savvy on my iPhone, had to get a refund as it would constantly crash. But I would really like to like it.

[@savvynavvy]

Sorry to hear that Simon. If you message me - [e-mail] I'll look at that issue for you.

[@simons780]

@@savvynavvy Thanks, I've already got a refund on my Elite yearly subscription and can no longer test it. But it would constantly reload or show error messages on my iPhone 11 which otherwise has no issues and sufficient memory.

[@savvynavvy]

@@simons780 I can reinstate a trial for you so you can see if we've ironed out any bugs and also test out the new features Simon? Here if you need us. David

[@briangilliland3620]

Aah, try an Android phone (and tablet) Solves most problems and far less expensive. :)

[@guttermancan]

can you have waypoints with the name of the waypoint showing on the screen on savvy navvy? I use navionics but it doesn’t allow this

[@svfairisle]

No, not that I’ve found. It just labels them A-B-C

[@dagnall53]

Another great video, so I thought I would "help the KZbin Algorithm".. I hope this message does not get truncated!.. I also use electronics (mostly IPad) on our boat, and I have tried lots of software. In particular I wanted to have good tidal planning so I had also tried Savvy Navvy, and it is impressive, - But there are some points I think you could have added, mainly about the pricing structure, and which "level" you were demonstrating. The Tidal Streams for example are only on the most expensive subscription option.. I have a couple of other suggestions for interesting navigation and planning software that you might like to look at: First is QTVLM (meltemus.com). This is a IOS / windows program that also downloads weather Gribs and displays them very nicely. It can also download Tide gribs (who knew these existed!) and using both can also do routing calculations, although I think this is less easy than Savvy Navvy. But they do have option for multiple routing start times, so you can see how altering the departure will work. Charting on QTVLM - at least in UK for me, comes from a VisitMyHarbour chart pack - very affordable.. You can perhaps add comments on the advantages / disadvantages of owning charts vs downloading and subscriptions!!. QTVLM also has multiple NMEA instrument input/ output options, and overcomes the problem of many of the other apps, in that you can send waypoints back to your autopilot. (Navionics and (I think Savvy navvy?) can see instrument data, but cannot send waypoints back to the boat instruments. - Sending this sort of data back to the boat is very helpful, as you can have a (waterproof and sunlight readable!) repeater showing bearing to waypoint / time to waypoint etc.. You also failed to mention INavx, the granddaddy of the IOS apps. This is so good that it was the main reason I got the Ipad at all. It can do gribs, but for various reasons (mainly I did not want yet another subscription!) , I use weather4D for that. So I cannot comment on its Grib display, but the rest of the interface is superb, and it sends waypoints back to my Raymarine autopilot (and displays AIS) really easily. Next app I would recommend you look at is Weather4D on the Ipad- this is very nice for reviewing gribs, and the more expensive Weather4D routing and navigation, does routing as well.. An advantage of this app is that it is buy once, and if you can do without the "high resolution grobs"- which need a subscription, then that is the only cost.. The standard GFS gribs are absolutely fine for most purposes! Lastly, and because you have a PC.. I would wholeheartedly recommend getting a copy of Neptune Navigation's passage planner. I have had one for years, and this single program is the reason i carry a PC tablet as well as the IPad.. I am less concerned about using polars to calculate best course based on gribs, which is what the newer Savvy navvy and QTVLM (and Weather 4D routing ) do.. But Passage Planner does do tidal routing really well. With multiple departure times being able to be calculated at a click, so you can see the effects of leaving later/earlier. A great tool for getting reluctant crew up earlier! I actually have a small thermal printer that I use to print out the (selected departure) passage plan from this program, and we use this printout on passage. Writing the actual time of arrival against each waypoint gives a good estimate of how well we are doing, and gives a fall back if the electronics fail.. getting the cheap thermal printer to work with the PC was quite another matter, but again, this has earned it place onboard. Neptune have a version of the App on Android, but I have not looked at it (no android!). Looking at my ipad I also have Imray apps, great for showing Admiralty charts, but not as good as InavX for actual use on passage, and also they cannot send the waypoints "back". Navionics is easy to use, but again - it cannot send the waypoints back to the boat.. All the very best Dagnall

[@svfairisle]

Thanks for that comprehensive breakdown, there’s quite a lot on there I didn’t know about. I will put together a page on the website to try and go through more options and to report how I’m getting on with Savvy Navvy, there’s a limit to how much I can cram into a video before viewers loose the will to live!

[@dagnall53]

Yes I agree! I think you get the right balance of interest and detail.. Unlike my comment, which could have done with a professional editor!! I would like to hear any comments on inavx if you can get a copy !

[@michaelbundy3867]

your comment on Brighton Marina 🤣.

[@abavarianboy8904]

You’ve never been to Newhaven, I bet Brigthon Marina would be a charm...? 😅😂

[@michaelbundy3867]

🤣🤣

[@ooweesaler]

Excelent video but can you acess Galileo with ipad or only gps?

[@svfairisle]

Yes modern iPads and every iPhone since iPhone 8 has the ability to access Galileo GPS. The weird thing is Galileo was/is blocked in the US. Weirder still the US allows GLONASS gps ( the Russian signal) that was the case a few years ago anyway, they may have sorted it now. Galileo should give greater accuracy, but other systems are still down to less than a meter so for yacht navigation it’s not a big deal.