Sawdust in the Garden - Not a Good Idea

[@gregcorse2882]

Bobby, the best garden results i ever had was when i tilled in sawdust, so i was surprised to see your post. However, after watching the video, i realized the difference between your results and mine (from over 40 years ago). I'm not sure where your sawdust came from, but mine came from horse stalls. Way back when, i would clean horse stalls at a local vet clinic. My job was to put clean sawdust in the stalls, and the horses would poop in it, I would later clean out the dirty sawdust from the stalls and place it into a big pile in the back, After a few months, i would take the composted sawdust with horse poop (evidently very high in nitrogen) and till it into my garden. This was by far, absolutely the BEST garden soil i've ever had, with awesome results... and only wish i had the same setup again!

[@GazelleofIsrael]

The sawdust is not supposed to be tilled into the soil. Layering mulch on top of soil is the way. no tilling....The problem is the act of tilling. No tilling.

[@coreyj1641]

GazelleofIsrael You beat me to the punch! lol I'm using wood chips myself, if yu don't mix them into the soil your home free!

[@onehardhitta]

GazelleofIsrael Right, right, right... you do not til your soil, you destroy everything, killing worms, bacteria and vital micro organisms...just add more compost, soil, worm castings, what have you, to the top it and be done... smh

[@demetriuspowell29]

@@onehardhitta only if you over till

[@PapayaPositive]

Explained: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aZPCqqF6jdaNm9E Example 1: kzbin.info/www/bejne/p2bcZX2lpcykpq8 Example 2: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mmPPqKSYqdWUrJI

[@mcjtong.30]

It is becouse he use Raw saw dust. Saw dust must keept atlest 6 month to composite. When saw dust become rotten then only it is fit to use for garden. Without decompositing saw dust using in garden you are giving raw food to your vegitable which they can't eat. Decomposite saw dust only become good food for garde.

[@OldAlabamaGardener]

There is a difference between putting sawdust or wood chips on as a mulch and rototilling it in. As mulch it is okay to put it on thick. But do not rototill it in or you will have what MHP Gardener described. In the Back To Eden videos he doesn't rototill at all, but does use wood chips as a deep mulch.

[@TheBlueappy]

I come from western Canada, I am not an expert on sawdust or gardening, but i do know there are many, different kinds of trees. When you make sawdust from them, and use it fresh, some can and do have undesirable qualities that can be harmful to plants and or livestock. Ever seen healthy grass growing under a pine tree? i have used sawdust on the garden, but it came from a very old pile. The sawdust was black and rotten, it had been about ten + years since any new had been added to the pile. This product worked great but you have to allow it to decompose first. i hope this is helpful. I love your videos and frequently wish we had the growing season here that you have there!

[@MrClipper500]

You just stopped me from making a Big Mistake. In the fall my brother was cutting down some trees and spread his saw dust all over my garden about three inches deep. The original plan was to till it in the ground when spring comes. Now, as soon as spring comes I will scrape it off my garden and send it to the town composting facility. Last time he cut trees many years ago he dumped his wood chips on my other garden and the tomatoes were crappy that year. I did not see the connection until seeing your video. Thank you Thank You Thank You!

[@PawPawMountain]

I have used wood chips on my garden now for 3 years, the same garden that I fought for 12 years before wood chips. I must say I think the method is great, however the tilling is over! If you till the sawdust or wood chips into the dirt your fixed! I have no problems growing anything in the back to Eden garden method of Paul's However getting started does take some time and I don't use chicken manure just chipped up trees! Implemented in the correct steps it works wonderful! It takes tons of chips I have used over one hundred dump truck loads and like Paul have been fortunate enough to have bless with tons of wood chips, This is my experience and success using wood chips. It truly does get better and easier each year! Keep up the Good Work, Love Your Videos!

[@DJMovit]

I watched the movie Back to Eden and picked up on the key points that may have slipped past some. I picked up on how he pointed out how the forest works with the decaying matter. It's over time, not just months. I heard him talk about his chickens and such. It works for him and others but not all things work for everybody. Trust me I know with just my two dutch buckets, but I am just trying it this year. My Self water rain gutter system didn't do well this year but I think it was my "Soil". I have learned a lot from watching your videos and your trial and errors. I am happy that you show your failures (or close to it). So many do not so you don't know if it really works or not. I had seen so many videos on people planting potatoes in 55 gallon barrels to get "Hundreds" of potatoes! I haven't found an update to show they got that. mine all stayed at the bottom so I learned it didn't work. Dan from the Allotmentdiary channel said not to go higher that 3 feet so that's what I am doing. Again thanks for sharing! Tim

[@SusanRogersMakingItWork4Me]

Guess I must have done something right, I used wood chips that had aged around 8 months and didn't have any problems, I worked them into the soil to keep it loose and then put some on top to help hold the moisture. But...I used lots of compost in the mix and added Epsom salt, then late in the growing season I was able to start using rabbit manure. Glad you figured out where you went wrong. You always have such a beautiful garden, I know that had to really hurt.

[@arkbilly]

I'm a big fan of Bobby and back to Eden, and have used both systems for years. If you put wood chips on, you will have to put manure down the rows for 2 years BUT you can't till ANYTHING into the soil, just add on top each year. If your going to till your garden It will take 4 years to keep from robbing your N. (I got 5 big loads from the Power line and let it age 2 years before tilling it in and this garden did very poor the next 2 years.) I have one that I haven't tilled for 4 years just added more chips and it has done great! (my chips started at 6 to 7 inches deep and add 2 to 3 inches on top each year. I rake my chips back then dig plants in or seed, cover with soil then rake chip back on when plants sprout back)

[@ddd3240]

Amen. Found out the hard way. Have added lots of things through the years. Sawdust was one of the worst. Took about five years to recover. Quail and rabbit manure is among the best. Blessed with neighbors that raise both, compost it and then deliver buckets of it with their tractors. Good stuff.

[@JandjacresNet]

I appreciate you saying "they way I want to". Plenty of commercial farmers do "no till". You want to till, so as you say you don't want to till in fresh wood chips. It seems to me that through your observations that the sawdust was a benefit so long as it was on the surface. So long as it remains there, all is well. You are absolutely correct about people skipping the fact about Paul using the chicken manure. It bugs me to death when people think all they have to do is toss on chips. The chips are a moisture barrier and - over a long period of time - composted organic material. The bird manure is the fertilizer. Thanks Bobby.

[@nate665]

Right, when you put down wood chips you have turned it into a no till garden. Till the soil, apply the wood chips then you don't till again. When you need to hand work soil you rake the top layer of unbroken down chips aside, hand cultivate, then recover with chips. Never till them in.

[@DR-zt9gs]

Proof in the pudding! I agree, that is why I don't use wood chips in my garden either. You can't change decay chemistry much, but you do have to live with it's outcome. Remember, too, depending on what trees the chips come from, you may also be changing the pH of your soil.

[@nov51947]

Thank you, thank you, thank you! For many years, I knew that decomposing organic matter literally sucks the nitrogen out of the soil. Yet when I watched the "Back to Eden" video, my common sense just left me!! At the Itsy Farm, we have asked several tree companies to bring us chips, but they will *_NOT_* be put on the garden for at least three years. ...and in those three years we will be turning the chips regularly just like a compost pile. When the chips become compost, they can go in the garden, but not before!

[@madwonderland5536]

Never tried woodchips or sawdust, but I've thought about it. I'm glad I watched this video now - thanks for the advice.

[@pickerick1]

I use wood chips on my garden but like you said. I let it break down for several years before I add it. Last year with all the rain we had my pile broke down in about 1 1/2 years. This year's pile will need and extra year. It just not even close to ready. Thanks for the reminder Bobby mhpgardener

[@ann2155]

The hole point of the BTE method is to not till or disturb the soil. There is no need to. It's a layering method. If you get aged chips there is no need to wait the 2 to 3 yr period to be able to plant. It is a constant source of compost tea feeding an otherwise unhealthy soil to start with. It's allowed to decompose in place without turning. Adding additional sawdust with manure to it also without turning. As a side dressing. If done properly this method works great. This is a NO TILL method. For those who don't completely understand the method check out Back to Eden film. Google it and watch for free. There is a link on the page. Then watch it again and again. You will find many things that you didn't see the first time. And enjoy gardening no matter the method you use.

[@GardeningWithPuppies]

Very true. You can't till the sawdust or wood chips into the dirt until they have decomposed.After that they benefit the soil beautifully. I've been using wood chips for 3 years now and am very happy with the results. Thanks for the video

[@StarryHilder]

We too right there with you, this will be our third year using woodchips..and it has saved us. Granted every persons soil and weather ect is different. AND they have to know how to use them...proper application! Proper composting ect.!

[@chikofuentez6995]

Will u tip me up in what i can till into ground to provide nitrogen for my little garden a fam member ruined with sawdust mistakenly? Id appreciate it much.

[@brindavanamorganicnurseryg2777]

Gardening With Puppies hello. Please guide how to use wood chips in.gardening

[@crpth1]

@@brindavanamorganicnurseryg2777 - Drop them where you want and LEAVE them. Don't till, don't bury them. Nothing, just leave them. Can't be simpler then that. That's all the guidance you'll need. Cheers

[@kenfarley957]

I have a beautiful productive permaculture pollyculture here in central fl. It is all woodchip mulch. The thing is, you have to let the mulch sit for a few years before it can be used for growing. Before I put down the mulch not much would grow because it is sugar sand. The other thing is this is a no till system and it is working great for me.

[@TheTreegodfather]

You're spot on. We use wood chips and shavings on the farm, but they're from our poultry sheds and it's composted a few years first. Never fresh and never just chips themselves.

[@1941pearl]

mhpgardener hello from central Pennsylvania. Ken here. Last early spring (2016) I got a chipper truck load of wood chips, I have been from spring to November mixing in greens from the local Restaurant about 100 pounds every week plus watering from the nearby crick. The wood chips are broke down and black, except for the bigger sticks are down to about the size of a thumb. In theory I believed I could speed up the composting break down by adding the greens, coffee grounds and water from 5-6 years to 1 to 2 years. Thankyou for your videos, between you and Donald, I have gain a whole lot of info, thanks again........Ken.

[@ggarden8432]

I put a thin layer of grass clippings on my garden about every 3 weeks, it takes awhile but it helps keep the weeds out. in the fall I have a compost of wood chips, leaves, grass and horse manure that I started in the winter before. I load that into my manure spreader and put a thin layer over the garden. it seems to be working great, the red dirt is now getting a brown / black tint to it.

[@bihbgm5858]

Thank you so much. I have been wanting to get some wood chips for my yard and trying to understand why some of my plants are doing so bad. I get so frustrated sorting through the advice and you explained it well. It seemed to me that putting organic material of any kind around my plants would be beneficial now I understand that it takes away from the soil until it is broken down. I always thought you could just throw out some seeds and get something to eat and my gardening efforts have been a journey of learning and experimenting and failing. Some years I have not tried because I have been so frustrated but I have decided to learn this or bust.

[@andiamador7156]

The wood chips are not for tilling in. A person would continue to add chips on top and move over a little just to put in plants/seeds. It is a no-till situation, and it takes a lot of mulch or cover to do it. Are you going to plant peanuts in the sawdusted spot as a cover crop, and see if it will help put the nitrogen back faster? I planted peanuts this year in various soils I have going, and they liked it everywhere. Peanut sprouts and plants are so neat looking. I loved watching them. And yes, he should have well-indicated the chickens contribution in the very first discussion. I am in the process of creating no till situation, but it is slow and taking over more of my gardening over time. I used fish water for fertilizer in all of my garden areas this year, and had some really good successes with it. No artificial fertilizers, no chemical pesticides. I just had to water too much with more plain water too, and so I am moving toward mulch cover and reduced watering. Draughts and water shortages call for it, and I hope I get it all working just right to accomplish it well.

[@teriruiz8292]

Awwwh, Bobby, that's a shame that you've got this funky situation now. Hopefully this will clear up soon and you'll again be able to plant the seeds you want and have them thrive. I am only an old disabled woman in a wheelchair, and live in the Phoenix suburbs here in a doublewide mobile in a mhp setting and because of the patio and carport overhang type roofs, I really don't have much ground for planting a garden. I'm trying to grow what I can in containers but most of it is in mostly shaded areas of the patio. It's hard, I've tried getting things going since April of this year, but everything keeps getting burnt up so fast from the sun, and the HEAT, even when I drag the containers into the fully screened inner patio area. It's so hard to watch things begin to sprout and get all happy and then have to watch them get burnt to a crisp with a few weeks as I try desperately to get them the sunshine that they obviously need, cuz they're getting too leggy! I watch your amazing videos and just dream of having a place as big as yours and the physical ability to farm it too. You are truly blessed and it's so nice that you share your information, whether good or bad, with us. I love hearing your accent, my maternal Grandfather was from Lexington KY and I adored hearing him talk about just anything. He's been gone for many years now, but everytime I hear your voice, it reminds me of him a little bit. Anyhow, thanks for the information, I'd often thought of using something like sawdust as a mulch in my containers, good thing I haven't done that and won't, thanks to watching your video!

[@dans4270]

You should do a correction in this video. Woodchips are fine for much. You don't till them in you leave them in place. If you use sawdust you have to add nitrogen to compensate for the lise. Dust takes more out then chips because it's much finer. But once again chips a re good you just leave your plant in thier rows a d the chips in the isles.

[@the0prynce]

I've never done full-blown back to Eden techniques, but I had a couple loads of wood chips delivered over to put in low spots around my fruit trees to decompose and fill in the gaps. Nothing is being bothered by it. When I want to plant something in it, I pull back the wood chips until I hit dirt. Nitrogen is only sequestered in the soil if it is mixed into the soil. Also, in less than 6 months in my climate the wood chips are definitely already on their way to breaking down and everything in the neighborhood looks great.

[@freewaybaby]

Wow.... can't get much more of an example than plants side by side that you KNEW what the difference was! Thanks for sharing this information. I'm about to plant my fall garden, after a fairly unsuccessful summer one. It took me watching tons of videos through spring and summer to realize that the "compost" I was using wasn't really ready for the garden. It was supposed to be a good compost, but it's really 1/2 between the woodchip phase and the compost phase, so I'm thinking that THIS is kind of what happened to cause most of the plants to stay the same size all through the growing season and some, like squash, just never produced past the blooming stage. Thanks again for a great video!

[@mhpgardener]

Marcy RP Yes, it sounds like your plants could have used some fertilizer. I think the key to making the wood chips deal work is adding some rich compost on top, something like the composted chicken manure.

[@freewaybaby]

I guess that's right. I've never seen anyplace selling composted chicken manure. I really thought the stuff we got was good. They CALLED it compost. I was trying to keep to the thought that if the soil was healthy, the plants would be too, but it just didn't work that way. I used a bit of foliar feed (out of sheer desperation) late in the season, but it was too little too late. Of course, you have a green thumb up to your shoulder...LOL.. so THAT helps! I'm learning and will definitely pray for a healthier fall/winter garden. Keep those lessons coming and THANK you for all you do!

[@bvbjb]

Someone may have already covered this, but the Back to Eden gardening method is a NO TILL method. That is THE difference. MHP, you are certainly correct, in that, IF one is going to till, plow, turn, harrow, etc., then compost is the sure fire way to go. Unless you're plowing in peas or buckwheat. Great detective work there MHP. As always, thank you for sharing.

[@arboristBlairGlenn]

Wood chips work as a to MULCH only, Don't till it in. If you till every year, this won't work. If you leave them on the top as a mulch and not an amendment, then wood chips can be great. It's all in how you process your garden. Large scale gardens that are worked with equipment are different than "no till" gardens.

[@gr8papi]

Just a note: I have learned and just as importantly SHARED the knowledge and experience from this channel. It is truly a pleasure. I believe in giving credit, where credit is deserved. This is that time. Thanks!

[@mobyhunr]

This work has already been done by university. After different percent of hot manure blended into sawdust the fastest breakdown into good bio available soil was 15% The time period was 8-10 weeks@ 8-12" thick. If I remember correctly. Red oak being acidic was tested separate with an alkaloid added took a little longer.

[@honeybacres]

Great video Bobby. I agree with you with the wood chips and lots of people do miss the fact that he adds the chicken manure. In a set up that you have there straw might be better as a mulch as it breaks down quicker and should rob as much nitrogen. Where I would use woodchips is around trees where the soil doesnt get tilled each year. This way the woodchips just stay there and break down with causing so many problems. The addition of extra nitrogen would still be adviseable I think.

[@billastell3753]

I have used wood chips and sawdust in my garden with great success however if you want to till it in it has to be composted first. A year in a pile with plenty of nitrogen added and flipped periodically did the trick for me. Then I dumped 6 inches of it on a new garden based on heavy clay and I had a great garden that has been getting better each year.

[@brodyjoe50]

You are right on bobby. I've seen this many times over at the community garden here. People will use wood chips, not weed it and then it will get tilled in. Nothing will ruin a plot faster than wood chips.

[@RobsAquaponics]

I know a few folks missed the part about adding poultry manure Bobby.. I used horse manure & worm castings on the few beds I set up here ;-) Have seen some spectacular success with the BTE method but seen a few failures as well.. I think the failures were just following others without researching for themselves :-/ Cheers mate & hope the corn picks up..

[@flamedrag18]

it depends on what type of sawdust it was, softwood sawdust still contains the pitch in the wood, which can be toxic to some plants. if you plan on using leaves, make sure it's not beech, they'll do the same thing. beech trees employ a kill the competition strategy by poisoning the ground around the adult with their decomposing leaves poisoning the ground, killing anything else that tries to grow there.

[@FensterfarmGreenhouse]

I did something similar years ago in containers. I had mixed sawdust in my compost/ potting mix. I saw remnants of unbroken down sawdust for about 2 years where I dumped the containers after the plants failed to flourish in those containers. Chuck

[@Sidneybeach875]

Dude the update pic of the corn is priceless. Not many tend to do updates. But thats proof that adding the nitrogen was the answer.

[@Veritas21000]

I tried that back to eden gardening it was a disaster weeds blew past the cardboard and woodchip layer with out a problem. The corn was stunted and the tomato's were small. I am go back to using oak leaves over the winter and composted grass and tilling the soil. I am using the woodchips that I purchased now for pathways and tree borders. If you go into the forest you will notice that it takes years for wood to decompose to the point of a useable growing medium. The Farmers I asked about using the woodchip method believed it was mostly a bad idea they were right. it is just another fad that doesn't really workout for most.

[@johnniek8845]

I made the same mistake some years back with the sawdust and wood chips, never thought about adding more nitro, would have been a big help. Thanks Bobby.

[@keyplayr61greenhousehydrop14]

Exactly right, Bobby! Compost is what you need, not non-composted materials! Great share!

[@MarcellaSmithVegan]

Maybe I've lucked out with my little hobby garden because I didn't know any better, your huge garden/farm is wonderfully lush and productive :)

[@joemonroe9456]

You can use fresh woodchips as mulch, just don't till them in. You may have to use a little extra nitrogen. If you put down cardboard first, you may not need any nitrogen at all. No silly tilling.

[@grayhand9676]

You're mixing techniques. Sawdust isn't meant to be tilled in until it's thoroughly broken down. If you had planted clover or another nitrogen fixer you probably would have avoided the problem. Tilling doesn't create healthy soil it actually destroys soil fertility and kills beneficial microbes and worms. If you're going to till always use aged mulch not fresh that's still breaking down. Even manure needs to age. Leave the sawdust to the side and mix in mushroom spores. You get mushrooms to eat and in about three years some beautiful soil.

[@HighDesertGarden]

You're right bobby. If someone is going to toss fresh wood chips on their garden, they better not plan on planting anything for a couple of years. The wood chips should definitely be piled up and aged for a few years before using them in the garden. With that being said, IMHO, it appears as though your soil could definitely benefit from some aged wood chips. Research proves that using chemical fertilizers in your soil can kill earth worms and other beneficial organisms. You're onto something though; it definitely takes more than just some aged wood chips to build, good, healthy soil. Over time, the composted wood chips, worms, bugs, fungi, etcetera would build healthy soil on top of the 'crappy soil' -- as you put it. Just like a forest, the soil would be alive. Don't get me wrong, I don't claim to be an expert, but I believe that I know good soil when I see it.

[@trex283]

We did something similar. We applied some compost that was not completely composted. It was made from tree wood chips. It destroyed my garden. The only thing to do was to grow beans which did grow very well. Eventually it does help the garden but avoid using wood in the garden soil.

[@DrifterAE2]

It's great to have you back!

[@erich.82]

I would never have guessed. The Mittleider Method grows plants in a mix of saw dust and sand, but then the method uses fertilizer every week too. Was planning on using wood chips in between rows next summer. Maybe it would be wise to rake the chips back after the fall, prior to tilling in leaves. Keep the vids coming! - Eric

[@LDSPrepper]

FrugalHomesteader As you stated the custom soil mix of sawdust and sand works wonders in the Mittleider gardening method. But we do not recommend having wood chips in the garden. Not even in the walkways. I did it and lived to regret it over and over.

[@erich.82]

Thanks for the heads up. I enjoy your videos, and have learned many useful gardening tips from the Mittleider ebook. Do you ever have any seminars in California?

[@richardplace4856]

By following the advice of MHPgardener and LDSPrepper, I constructed and had an insane vegetable garden. Somehow I missed this video and a few years ago put mulch in my raised beds. 3 years later, I am still not back to where it was but its getting better. It is unreal how much production the mulch sucks out of the garden. What a foolish mistake.

[@fredkourmadas7914]

I use fresh wood chips on my tiny little suburban garden, literally maybe 200 square feet or less, and they work great. Don't work them in to the soil, leave them on top. The soil has been built by years of composting already. The chips retain moisture and keep the soil cool, and that zone of low nitrogen ON TOP of the soil inhibits weed germination. Plus, I grow Stropharia mushrooms in the chips. So I get an extra harvest from the space and the chips rapidly turn into really great compost. But it would be totally impractical in a large space where you have to till.

[@randomguy2369]

I have so much woodchips and saw dust from my shop and we been tossing it for years. Might start composting it and maybe a year down the road start using it

[@navajopa31]

Bobby: You are right on with this video. I always like the people who sell chippers and they show how you can just put the fresh green chips around your plants. Remember they are not gardeners, they are trying to sell chippers. You know why I cover our garden each fall with 10" of leaves. They protect the soil over the winter and the bottom of the leaves turn into compost and I turn all of it under in the spring. All of that organic matter breaks down and makes openings in the soil so the roots have a place to grow. More roots, healthier plants and more fruit! Good video! Bernard

[@libbyworkman1666]

Ben Au contraire, your words are great advice.

[@frankburns8871]

I'm new to gardening, so I could be wrong, but it seems like wood chips as a mulch should be fine, as long as you keep the soil nutrient rich with compost and-or fertilizer. Keep the wood on the surface. It looks nice, keeps the moisture in, stunts weed growth, and you can either just rake it up and get rid of it annually or let it slowly break down and enrich the soil over time. As long as it's breaking down on the surface, it's not robbing the soil at root level of nitrogen. Anyway, that's my plan for this coming spring.

[@sallywasagoodolgal]

Well, Bobby, you saved me again. I'm still going to get the tree folks to bring chips, but I have a lot of horses and I'm going to layer it with manure and leave it over in an unused corner of the property for a few years. When it starts getting weedy I'll think about putting it in the garden. Maybe I'll throw on some scratch or kitchen scraps and let the chickens mix it around.

[@dandingo168]

Yes I noticed that in the Back to Eden garden aged chicken manure is used and he also states that you need to leave the wood chips about a year before planting out or the minimum leave the wood chips over winter and not to plant out until the spring. Wood chips are great around fruit trees but you have to wait until they start to break down to get benefits. I agree you need to build the soil, compost, compost tea and mulch (soft mulch for veggies) I use composted chicken manure mixed with mushroom compost and home made compost.

[@Naoma09]

And it took paul 15 years to get it to where it is today. I will say though, I did cover mine this year (wood chips and pine straw) and stopped tilling, and I had my best tomato yield this year. But - I had a boat load of of compost that had to be put on over and over again through the summer to help it. So, you are doing well, why change what you have done that is working for you ;) Have a blessed day!

[@morrisl7]

The key is to have the wood chips ON TOP of the soil and it only depletes nitrogen on a very thin surface layer. Burying it will suck the nitrogen out.

[@C3Voyage]

Oh, Bobby, I think wood chips are awesome as mulch obviously, but not as an amendment because of the very things you've pointed out. I learned a very similar lesson this year with "composted" city mulch. It just wasn't composted enough.

[@rchopp]

I know what you mean first hand, I did some wood chips on a small test bed 1st year I needed to add lots of nitrogen, this being the 2nd year and I don't till them when I plant I pull it back and go to the soil.. they are 95% broken down now and added only the normal about of fertilizer pretty good success. What I learned it is not a fast process, I don't have any weeds, and water yeah I don't water it holds it own.. It's not for everyone but it does have it's place if done correctly and when you have awful sand for a garden spot it can be a blessing. Thanks Bobby for sharing your experiences.

[@B60IN3]

At a early age it became my job to rake the leaves. After a few years I saw that when we plowed the garden, the leaves would still be there from years past. I could not convince mom that this didn't work. Mom is now 88 years young, and still gardens! Still putting leaves in her garden. I've gave up.

[@LDSPrepper]

Amen Brother. In Paul's movie he states that all the nutrients plants need in the garden can come from wood chips decomposing on the soil. I tried it faithfully for two years. It didn't work. Then I caught the point in the movie where Paul talked about his "fertilizer factory", his chickens. And how he wouldn't have a garden without them. I thought, "Then why does he say all the nutrients are in the wood chips?" At any rate has has lived there 30 years and has been putting down chicken manure for 30 years. I no longer use any wood chips in my vegetable garden and I am better off for it. I don't have the weeds, bugs, fungus, molds, and hassles of wood chips.

[@1949RL]

Paul also said he feeds all his green scraps to chickens then uses the compost from them.And fungus is a good thing.

[@deasttn]

Yes...i too spotted the chicken manure comment. The wood chips can make for a nice growing medium, but you will need some nutrients in there.

[@crazy808ish]

LDSPrepper His chickens are fed only from his garden. Anything coming out of his chicken pen came from his garden first. The nutrients aren't produced out of thin air by the chickens. All nutrients originally came from the wood chips! He only uses his chickens as a composting method. Note, even the quickest composting method takes 16 or so days to finish with high amounts of human maintenance. A flock of chickens eat, digest, and are done within a few hours, plus you don't have to turn the compost for them.

[@highstandards6226]

And their scratching keeps the soil nicely loose. ;) :)

[@highstandards6226]

Yeah, given their sizes..I'm sure no weed has ever had their seeds dispersed in woodchips.

[@Larry342516]

I always learn something new when watching your videos Bobby. Thank you

[@feltingme]

Woodchips work well for me, even mixed in with a soil, provided I give extra nitrogen for first 6 weeks of so. I tried to do mixing in with sawdust as well, and that didn't work as well. Maybe because sawdust is decomposing much faster and would need tons of extra nitrogen, so much, that it might not work for plants while it is getting sucked up. I like it mixed into soil, because I live in the dry area, and it hold moisture very well.

[@davlwallace]

Saw dust worked good for you when they were covering your soil like nature does. Once you tilled them under, that is when you created your problem leaching nitrogen.

[@MarcellaSmithVegan]

As long as you don't plow the chips in they work really well, In something like a small no-till garden and you can tinker more with top drsg amendments maybe, stuff you wouldn't use (or bother with) out in a field, I'm guessing. I originally put 8 inches on top in a small no-till garden, pull them away to plant the veggies, then push it back, omg wonderful, but it can't be mixed in, I'm told it takes about 3 yrs and it is dirt, so you have to keep reapplying. I also sprinkled sugar with mycorrhizae powder and ground up mushrooms on top, for their wood eating spores to help them breakdown about twice as fast, it works! I top dress when ever I can, with my food/garden scrapes homemade compost, (no manures) and several times I used lots of fine powdered rock dust & other minerals like green sand to make sure the foods were sweet and nice tasting, full of nutrients. Trying to keep with the no-till idea, after the first 3-4 weeks I opened up a small row and the soil looked richer, took a stick dug a 1/2 inch deep line and planted more greens, did well. The soil becomes easy to spoon out to plant individual plants, then as it grows push the decomposing chips back on. You fiddle around alot more with small gardens maybe, adding compost and spores, easy to be careful with the chips when you are using your hand to pull back or mess with the chips, and you are right down their with your hands, so you can give it a little extra coaching and sweet talk to grow that probably helps, hehe, but man, I've never had a better garden.

[@danieledwards4097]

It's all about a no till system.

[@mortenhn1981]

Dude dont til your soil, thats the problem. I use wood chips and my plants get bigger and bigger each year as the buttom layer decompose. Its auto composting and auto weeding, its awesome you should try it the right way :) Ive been doing it for 5 year, and i totally agree with some of your aspects, the wood chips have to be layered with compost or leaves or grass clippings or all of the above. And it takes 2-3 years before it really gets going as the buttom layer of chips need to start decomposing before giving nutrience to the ground And one more really important point, it have been proven over and over again that the nitrogen used by the chips to decompose are only removed from the surface, wood chips cannot pull nitrogen out of the ground, so if your plats have roots below the wood chips surface into the ground (which it should always have) you will not have a problem with lacking nitrogen. This have been proven. Nitrogen does NOT move up from the ground to the surface just because there is no nitrogen AT the surface, therefore chips cannot pull nitrogen from below the surface.

[@mr.aarondphillips1357]

sir you have given me the answers to everything that I do wrong,.. all that woody mulch. Thanks.

[@patandsandytrierweiler2440]

My experience is that wood chips and likely sawdust does make great soil. However, I agree...it only happens after several years. If you till, bad news!

[@ne.laser_jon]

Sawdust is fine. Using sawdust is a good idea when you need more organic matter or something to loosed your your soil. Your mistake was that you didn’t add nitrogen with the sawdust. I’m in the process of doing it this weekend so it’ll be ready in the spring.

[@MatthewCuba]

Good analysis of the problem with your corn.

[@dennisseeker36]

i thought everyone knew tilling under saw dust /wood chips is not a good thing. good thing you posted for those that do not know. i am trying to compost saw dust right now, one time thru and already the chicken manure has all been taken in, i will compost a second maybe 3rd time to compost it, adding a lot more manure

[@Michael_McMillan]

If you use woodchips you don't till the ground, you let them stay on top and decompose.

[@Michael_McMillan]

Only takes about 6 months, here in California, for the woodchips to breakdown.

[@highstandards6226]

Wood chips are usually a hardwood; sawdust usually from evergreens and those take forever to break down, hold and fix any nitrogen they come in contact with. I'm not even sure ashes from evergreen logs or branches would be better.

[@Praxxus55712]

I am not a fan or follower of Back to Eden. Not my style. Wood chips have no place in my garden. I can get the mulching I need from fresh grass clippings. Plus fresh cut grass will feed nitrogen into the soil. I had a very good laugh when you mentioned having the same crappy soil under the wood chips. Love it. Thank you for this Bobby. :)

[@mhpgardener]

***** I can see using aged chips as a mulch in raised beds where you're less likely to have to turn the soil. I've used them with success. But to cover an entire garden with wood chips, especially fresh ones, is not for me. When it comes time to hill up the taters or corn, I want some soil to work with, not mulch. Best of luck with the new farm Ray.

[@StarryHilder]

mhpgardener People make huge mistakes when using the BTE method..its not about just putting woodchips on your garden. AND fresh ones is definitely a big no no! We have a very hot site here on our off grid homestead and we use so many different things in the garden..but the top layer for SURE is decomposed wood chips. We have gone almost 24 plus days with not having to water the veggies when it is in the 90's. We pull back those chips and that soil is moist and cool. So for us its been a awesome way to garden. BUT again common sense people..use what works for your own personal application and soli and area.

[@tzunammi]

Praxxus55712 so, the soil under the saw dust like from a saw mill... would it also be bad to use? I was at a place where there was so much of it! I decided to do more research because I do know that fresh saw dust and wood chips will create nutrient lock... I was told that they had to be broken Dow for at least two years prior to bring able to use so, I stayed away... but after seeing that uunder? I thought to do a little I investigation... thanks.

[@Baileygeep7]

Sawdust can also cause problems as a mulch, if it dries into a slightly compressed mat which it often tends to do, it will repel rainwater until it rehydrates and soaks up a lot of the water as it does and unless its a long soaking rain, the water won't get into the ground.

[@ab_ab_c]

You are exactly right about saw dust & wood chips--it will use up available N in the soil. One thing you can do though is at the end of the growing season if you turn in crop residue is to add N to the soil so all winter long, the decompostion process is accelerated. Then next spring, test the soil for N levels & add as much N as is needed for the crop you intend on growing during the spring. Very aged wood chips is also good to add to the garden, but if you add it as mulch the previous year & it hasn't broken down well, it's better to rake it off before prepping your soil for the next growing season. That of course is not practical for row gardening on a large farm basis. p.s.: You are also very astute about the back to eden method. The wood chips are very broken down (over 30+ years worth of chips) and Paul ads composted chicken manure. The finished compost is the source of NPK & the aged wood chips provide minerals & a good water retention sponge-like material that holds water for the plants. Both are beneficial--but some people mistakely assume it's all about the wood chips...

[@ondrobaco]

you did not understand the eden method. You did one thing you never do - till the woodchips in the soil. The woodchips are there to protect top soil where all microorganisms are. Wood chips do not have to be aged, they just protect top soil. When you plan you move woodchips aside put seeds in and cover back with woodchips. easy.

[@scrappyny7432]

For weed control I have always put down grass clippings and it works well. By the end of the year the clippings are brown and not broken down. Ive always tilled them in. Now Im thinking about raking them out and putting them in my compost until they are fully broken down before putting it back into the soil.

[@crpth1]

Greg NY - Just stop tilling, basic and simple. Save your sweat, hours of work and all the other nuisance. Good finished compost is undoubtedly amazing no one will ever question that. But your entire garden can also be a composting factory adding to the soil as it goes. ;-)

[@jksatte]

The thing about the wood chips is also not to till them in. That is for a no till system. So it is definitely bad if you till them in. You I wonder about the Mittleider method. It uses sand, sawdust and a fertilizer mix. I wondered how that would work. I don't get why it doesn't have the same problems you had with the corn but it works somehow and is very productive. Anyway, happy gardening. Janice

[@Louieo2012]

Thanks, you have cleared up my wood chip issues. Again thanks.

[@dothorne]

The reason Back to Eden works is the wood chips are never ever turned into the soil. He just covers the ground and feeds it. I plan to do the raised bed wood chips garden since I do not own a tiller. At any rate, you have a fabulous garden, and I LOVE the tip on pulling the bean plants and harvesting standing upright in the shade!!

[@webcajun]

Right on target Bobby. If you ever visit an old saw mill you’ll find piles of sawdust that have been there for years and still not broken down all the way.…Donald

[@mhpgardener]

webcajun I have a big pile of sawdust too that's just sitting there. I think I'll have it for quite awhile since it doesn't appear to be getting any smaller.

[@olensoifer9901]

mhpgardener As with any compost, you need a source of cellulosic material and a source of nitrogen. You can compost the sawdust, or even shredded newspaper, which is about the same as chips/sawdust, if you add high nitrogen manure. Mixing the two together will cause them both to break down many times faster than if each ingredient sat alone in different piles. They can be mixed 50/50, but actually less than half the amount of a nitrogen source is needed for each part of wood waste. Also, the compost will tend to be too acid, so lime should be added as well.

[@PetalsonthePavingSlabs]

I never realised the woodchips had such an effect on the nitrogen levels, thanks for sharing!

[@lirg123]

Wood chip would make a good mulch for small raised bed, but for wide open field its a hassle to claim them back up before harvest.

[@5stardave]

Wood chips and sawdust are meant to stay on top of the soil and not mixed in. If left on top to naturally decompose it will add nitrogen to the soil.

[@GrowingDownUnder]

sawdust adds food for microorganisms and worms...it also adds carbon and can improve structure of the soil as well as water retention. Over time it will break down...you can till it in your soil. Plant legumes to fix nitrogen this will prepare the soil for the next crop. Worms will eat the sawdust and return worm castings rich in nitrogen

[@chikofuentez6995]

Thanks...a little to late. Got me a little garden and with what ive learned...jeez i eff'd up my little garden. Even tilled it. I didn't bring sawdust...was a fam member...i though it be alright since its part of groumd or whatevers. After the fact i didnt like...kinna always looks dry.But now i see why our green bean plantation never sprouted. I will definite remove all i can. Thanks for info n sharing

[@Backyardhomesteader]

Bobby, I use ground up leaves just like mother nature. My garden is rich and dark and full of worms.

[@kandylandfarms9898]

Plant Crimson Clover in between the rows during the growing season and over the whole garden over the winter be sure to use inoculants on the clover seed. If you have access to Llama manure it will work great and will not burn the growing plants.

[@shroudedlegion]

Good stuff man. Thanks for the advice. Keep the videos rolling!

[@AmyLuthien]

Another downside of using un-composted wood chips or sawdust in the garden is it's an awesome way to introduce pests and diseases into your garden. Just ask me about the day my father scored some free wood mulch and helpfully spread it all around every tree in my yard . . . :/

[@DesertGardenPrepper]

you do whatever makes sense to you my friend, because i have learned a whole bunch from you and am currently a lettuce, chard, kale, arugula, and basil millionaire thanks to your kratky instructions. i'm lovin' it! but as far as the wood chips, you missed a few details in the back to eden movie. never use saw dust, and never till the chips in because they will lock up your nitrogen. the nutrient dense part of the wood chips is the branches when they are full of green leaves and ground up somewhat fine. you can bring me a big load of those anytime you want and they will go straight over the top of whatever i'm growing. it's like solid gold, money in the bank.

[@davidpeters7521]

I'm growing both regular potatoes and sweet potatoes in a mixture of saw dust, compost. and grass clippings. also used compost tea. I tried growing sweet potatoes in saw dust, and sand and feed the slips a liquid fertilizer plants would not grow, so I added compost and had a good crop. using a combo next year. thanks

[@EdLillywhiteNorton]

Good information. I do agree with some that say you just dont till it into the soil, but that would be a problem when you are pushing your corn hills up. Do you know anything about companion planting? Like don't plant onions near beans or they won't produce. I have a small garden so it makes a difference if those things are true. Thanks for the video.

[@crystalo3550]

Do you know the 3 ladies? method i think its like companion planting?

[@highstandards6226]

Try using hardwood pellets next time (the same ones you can buy to burn in a pellet stove) They're slower to absorb surrounding moisture, but do puff up the same way, and no nitrogen fixation problems. Granted, red clover can be pretty good for that too. Grabs the nitrogen out of the air, stores it, then plow it in and under, immediately gives back to the soil as it gets broken down. Another way to saturate your soil with nutrients is to begin a worm composting club, then invite everyone to use your fields as a place to get rid of their surplus castings and/or worms. The worms don't precisely *thrive* in the wild outdoors (not the way they multiply in a bin) but they still survive well and convert those precious few inches of topsoil to even more fertile topsoil.

[@1mtstewart]

agreed! great video! have you tried green manures like buckwheat or chick peas? blending collected leaves with grass clippings in a 10 to one ratio provides the nitrogen needed for decomposition. incorporate and allow that area to digest it. next year much organic matter = water retention and crop feeding too!

[@mhpgardener]

1mtstewart The only green manures I've done are rye and wheat as cover crops. They helped a lot.

[@1mtstewart]

Great for dormency. The buckwheat works in growing season. Spread seed, rake in, water. When blooms appear, till in. Repeat. Again, great video. And keep it up, many are learning from your examples and visualizations! :-)

[@butchlake5764]

I used saw dust before and fresh is the wrong thing--i also composted some for a year and it worked good! i have a small garden and i grow in tires end to end--worked fantastic! but i used 3" or 4" chicken manure with same amount of leaf mold and then little of lime and fertilizer--terrific! but i never use fresh saw dust or shaving--dont know what it may be treated with--stuff that maybe treated!

[@RobotechII]

Great video as always Bobby. Keep up the good work. P.S. If you watch Paul's latest videos, he doesn't even put wood chips on his garden, just his orchards.

[@mhpgardener]

RobotechII Do you know why he stopped putting wood chips on his garden? I haven't watched anything new from him.

[@MarcellaSmithVegan]

He's always said to only reapply fresh chips as needed every few years, the original garden is different to start with using deep fresh chips (mine was 8 inches or so, but when the garden is young and the chips are fresher, you then are pulling away the chips to plant directly in the soil and as it rains it creates the compost tea affect and keeps the roots consistently moist but not wet, but after they start decomposing, you only need to add from your decaying chip pile, or fresh chips only as needed, he throws alot of chips in the chicken pen to decompose with the veggie scrapes and chik poo. But it isn't a continual dumping chips all the time, that's not needed. And you would never till them in, you use a no-till method for sure. If you remember, he only used a hoe or garden rake in his garden, scrape a little line, drop seed, thats it. when you walk on the garden you realize it is different. He doesn't have to be very careful around trees, just dump the chips, smooth out and walk away, I don't have them around trees, but the plants next to the chips are growing really well. I had put a good 8 inches around the tomato plants and I could not believe how much their roots grew when I had to pull up a few of them, I actually couldn't as the roots were massive, I've never seen tomato roots like that, from a summer of wood chips around them, but also remember I am also throwing rock dust and other minerals with my compost as if it was any other small back yard garden. In his orchard, maybe those are fresher loads in the orchard you saw, although the chips can get very deep, but the tops stay dry and unbroken down as much, stick your hand in there and its loose and black, different than regular soil, and it retains water incredibly. I have a couple smaller gardens around the yard, the one that had no chips I had to water every other day this summer, the wood chip gardens one with 10-12 foot high tomatoes I watered maybe 3-4 times this entire summer including the time of planting. I now have a 4-5 foot tall pile along the whole side of my small garden (about 4-5 truck loads) to take from as decayed matter, and to let the rain run thru making everything richer, I'm still occas throwing mushroom spores and compost scattered over it. I was playing and dug a 6 inch trench on top a little bit, at about waist high, filled with dirt, planted cucumber, celery, used the chips like plant containers, but not enough soil as it slowly leeched down away, but I did get a couple cucumbers, haha. I guess though, you have to just realize it's not standard gardening, you can't use a fresh woodchip garden as if it is a regular dirt garden, you never plow it, or plant right into the fresh chips, you would have had to know/realize that or else it doesn't work, no fun in that!

[@hummingbirdcreek]

I watched that movie "Back to Eden", and this is what I heard. He stated that if you till the garden with the mulch it's going to rob the nitrogen, but if you leave the mulch on top of the ground it won't rob the soil of nitrogen. Is this right or wrong?

[@hummingbirdcreek]

The peppers were fine that year because the sawdust was on top of the ground, the second year you tilled in the sawdust, and I think that was the problem.

[@1949RL]

You are right, Paul said not to till chips in.

[@havilahgold2942]

I did the BTE garden. I have never tilled the chips in. .They were also about 5 years old and mixed with leaves, dead plants ..etc. I've have great success. Huge plants. Peppers dint do too well though. takes them a while. Corn got huge, 3 ears per plant. I also had about 8 inches of pure manure and compost below the surface and I personally called him and he said to never ever till I just move the chips aside when I plant. and I also add a lot of compost So far so good for me.

[@havilahgold2942]

***** No, because it was mixed with really old plant mulch. I think it was about a 50/50 mix. : )

[@rajarammallikgangiraju5730]

Bobby Is it the same in case of coco peat . They say coco peat support good root growth, but doesn’t it suck nitrogen in soil. Or using 1 month old rotting coco peat is better?.. please let me know ur views. Thank you.