Scales and Gauges Part 18 - N Scale

[@vincenthuying98]

Dear Dale and Karyn, to be precise, the manufacturer of tinplate trains and toys, Arnold, introduced their Rapido 200 line in 1960. The scale of those train sets was 1:200. Although the models leaned more towards slightly bigger versions of the later 1:160 N standard. Anyhow, they tweaked their production of the Rapido 200 in 1962. When they shifted to 1:160. Apparently Arnold came up with the Rapido coupling when they adapted an automatic coupler design from Rokal. The initial Rapido 200 line had a kind of crude European style coupler. The incentive for a coupler change had been incentivized at Arnold by the Lone Star o-o-o (treble o) company, which at about the same time started selling their version of N scale. Lone Star trains were fitted with automatic couplers from day one. On the gauge, the Rapido 200 started off with a gauge of 8,5 mm and changed to the N scale standard of 9 mm in 1962. Cheerio

[@ToyManTelevision]

WOW!!!!!! The real history!! Im going to pin your comment!!! THANKS FOR THIS!!!!! 😃

[@robertemmons2260]

Karyn made the show much more fun to watch. And you're right, we don't want uncontrollable body functions as we get older. Thanks for another great video!

[@ToyManTelevision]

Totally!

[@N-Scale]

You guys are so much FUN !!! I made the jump from HO to O and then to G and back to HO and then to N Scale about 30 years ago and have never looked back.

[@ToyManTelevision]

I always look back. It’s scary back there. But that’s why the car has a mirror. Oh! Trains! Never mind.

[@N-Scale]

LOL , there is that !!!@@ToyManTelevision

[@historybuff7491]

Thank you for the info. I lean toward N scale because of the smallness. The tinier the better...sometimes.

[@ToyManTelevision]

Yeah, are used to love my N scale. But I started mostly in HO and I kept going back to it. My last HO rail Road went all the way around the outside of a room with about 120 feet of mainline. I was able to pull 100 car trains, however, the locomotive was staring at the caboose! Anyway, I still have all of that HO equipment and I still love HO. But then I moved onto On3. And I found that really fun but we have a club way out I would that was taken apart. I no longer had any interest in ON3. . No, quite some time ago I fell in love with large scale, trans, and decided that even if I didn’t have any place to run them, that would be fun to build some or rather, I should say get some and detail them. And then I put a tracking on out in the yard and I’ve never really looked back. I still love the large scales, although I still have all of my N equipment, my HO equipment, and my ON3 equipment.

[@blainemilliron3870]

Dale in early 90's berliner TT was inported I got a set it had a 040T engin I tryed to cdep it moved maybe 3-4 inches in a 1/2 hour ' I have Z and the smalest I have seen is japinise I think they call it T

[@caseyvillemodelrailroad3877]

Great vidio on N scale, Allways liked the speed of the old Atlas diesels , have an old big boy that i put in a 5 pole motor into it and it pulls a ton. Have an old 1956 f7 that after some fixing runs ok , it performs more like a post war Lionel f7 on the tracks but a great conventional piece. Thanks for the morning coffee...

[@ToyManTelevision]

Morning. I’m way behind on comments. Had a weird thing happen. Involving doctors and stuff. But all better now!!

[@billpihl1]

Another GREAT VLOG. You two had me ROFLMAO !!!!!! Just keep them coming. You always make my day........

[@ToyManTelevision]

More to come!

[@Bigbuddyandblue]

Atlas locomotives have always been great, smooth “off the shelf” runners in my experience, which goes back to the early 60’s.

[@Big.Al.3]

I've been looking forward to you talking on 'N Gauge' railroading. I've been modelling in this gauge for over 25 years. British and Continental railways. N gauge covers a lot. 1/144, 1/150 & 1/160. Also, there are the 2mm groups as well. We will be attending the European N sale convention in Stuttgart German at the end of November. I'm looking forward to seeing your chat on Z & T Gauges.

[@ToyManTelevision]

And 1:1000 scale nano. Geee.

[@joellekarma]

I so love N scale. I have a mini N scale layout that is 2x2 it has mountains and buildings. N scale was my 1st model train my dad bought me. I wanted me to get HO but I fell in love with N scale and still do. I love my On30 layout but will always have a love for N scale. I so enjoy your Videos.

[@ToyManTelevision]

Very cool! My layout was about 20’ long but only 12” wide. With 36” dog bones at both ends.

[@loispadgett6306]

What a fun video you 2 sure had the sillys this morning. I enjoy the sillys. N is my favorite but Z and T will be whens I will get sometime soon. Looking forward to next video. Thanks Dale and Karyn for this fun video. GOD BLESS 🚂💖🚂💖🚂💖🚂💖

[@ToyManTelevision]

Hi. I’m trying to get caught up. Sigh. Anyway bless you!

[@pathvalleyrailroad9277]

The best thing about N scale is you can put the SAME amount of railroad in the SAME amount of space as HO and have twice the scenery to trains ratio, which makes them look much more realistic. I love N scale.

[@ToyManTelevision]

And actually four times the space. Because it’s half as wide AND half as long.

[@kenshores9900]

I forgot to mention that I have a Bachman N Scale switching locomotive. It is just “sinking cute!” I own a number of Atlas RS100s in the run name So buying used stuff is okay. Rail on!

[@daviemaclean61]

I'm so used to seeing the two of you sitting behind some G scale (or thereabouts) item that putting N scale stuff in front just messed with my perspective! How often can you lose it in an 11 minute video ;-) ;-) ;-) Cheers

[@ToyManTelevision]

It’s fun to just go.. I get serious and Karyn cracks a pun. And I miss it. Then I get it. I can’t keep up with her.

[@Mike-tg7dj]

Dale, I just about busted a seam when you were talking about the US compared the European version reminded me of the time I was on the phone with my mother about St. John's Wortand how there are two St.John's Wort plant, how they bloom yellow at the height of Summer. It was about that time my then 2 year old daughter walked by only to catch the last part of the conversation to which she looked up at me and declared, " No, Daddy I'm not peeing!" She was quite serious about the situation. My late Mother laughed at that story for the longest.

[@ToyManTelevision]

Oops. Fun though right?

[@growclipbonsaiforseniors1951]

Great play on words.

[@ToyManTelevision]

Thanks. Play with trains. Play with words. All fun playing.

[@johnd8892]

Lone Star from England were pioneering in this but calling their range Treble O Lectric meant that other later makers did not like to use the term OOO for the gauge being to close to competitor Lone Star. So Europe invented the term N for the nine mm gauge. Nine starting with N in most European languages. There was a US steam outline 0-8-0 in the Lone Star Treble O Lectric range as well as the US F7 style locomotive. In their British their were two four axle diesels. One flat fronted , like a BR class 24 and a more streamlined double cab loco modelled on the Baby Deltic. They powered these by a central motor and rubber band drive. The steam loco used that arrangement as a tender drive. A KZbin search for Lone Star Treble O Lectric will show some running and tuning tips. They seemed to be very close to the Triang OO/HO range for the rolling stock and couplers.

[@FunAtDisney]

You need to change “Toy Man Television” to “Stinkin’ Cute Television” 😊

[@capndave9152]

Japanese N Scale is actually 1:150 since their railroads are 3’ 6” gauge. Kato Japanese prototype trains are smaller than their US prototype trains. Similar to what happened with British n scale.

[@kenshores9900]

Yea, bend over and sneeze is a problem when you reach a certain age. Karyn was in rare form. European! Yea that could happen if you bend over and sneeze. The details have improved with N scale. Intermountain and Micro Trans make great stuff. There is an abundance of pre owned also. I have acquired a number of pieces that I got off the inter web. Yeah I have Rapido couplers and they work. Yea I have plans to change then out but it is a work in progress. Will you do a show on Kadee and Micro Trains? Or at least mention that story. There are car kids in N scale. Now that is tough. When are you going to talk about Z? DCc didn’t exist when I started. So I don’t know if I will do that. I can run 3 trains at one time and to me that’s a lot. Rail on and keep it on the rails.

[@ToyManTelevision]

Planning a series on wiring. Old school. Blocks. Two cab. Four cab. DCC. Locobuss. I think it would be fun. Perhaps even AC. But I don’t know much about it. But hell ignorance never stopped me before.

[@benhancock1408]

"Cute" is the 3 cylinder Perkins diesel which will be the power plant for a 1.5" scale F-3 I recently acquired.

[@ToyManTelevision]

Not cute. AMAZING!!!! Wow!!!

[@growclipbonsaiforseniors1951]

I bet Karyn can build some of those Z gauge houses and make a cool little layout.

[@ToyManTelevision]

Karyn can fer sure.

[@jeffbutler6100]

I first got into N scale around 1969-1970 I was in an apartment, and the size of N scale was great for building a layout in a small space. Compared to today's N scale offerings, the early N scale was pretty crude. Rapido "Lobster craws" were the standard coupler until Kadee came through with well scaled freight cars, with their couplers.... Then we had the over size (Pizza cuter) flanges, running on oversize code 80 track. Locomotive performance left a lot to be desired. The BEST running locomotive of that era, was the Con Cor PA, which I believe used a Kato drivetrain. Unfortunately when you increase the quality of model railroad rolling stock, ..you had Kadee freight cars that sold for $3.95, that now cost over $20 and locomotives that were 15 to 30 dollars, now costing over $100 to prices into the $500 range when you are talking big steam with sound.. The prices today of N scale rolling stock, is a big stumbling block, for teenagers getting into the hobby who are on a very limited budget.

[@ToyManTelevision]

Yup. But it’s the desire that’s really missing. One of the guys from across the street, like 25, just pulled up in a new $80,000 BMW. So costs? Yea. Expensive. But…

[@lescobrandon3047]

I had tried Z scale. One morning I woke up and found it had been stolen. But later I found it in the vacuum cleaner. Just kidding. There has been a lot of joking about smaller scales such as bacteria causing N scale derailments. HO being a breakfast cereal. But Karyn is the queen of humor.

[@ToyManTelevision]

I know those jokes. Well… I told them at times… seriously I loved N but the huge stuff just grabbed me.

[@garyacker7388]

You guys have me still laughing 😂😂, I can't even type what I'm trying say 😅! Thank you guys so much 😊

[@ToyManTelevision]

Glad you enjoyed it. Now.. I need to p. No really. Anyway THANKS!!

[@Phorhesa]

Dave Vickers Module of the Hostlers set up.

[@ToyManTelevision]

Yup.

[@finlayfraser9952]

Dale, Karyn those Lone Star 000 trains started out as simple push alongs. I had a small collection in the early 60s. Looking online the only powered loco they brought out was a diesel, they couldn't fit a motor into a steam loco. Lone Star, despit its name was a British company that made toy cap guns througout the 50s and early 60s. I assume that the trains were made from the same "Gunk" metal as the guns. Karyn's humour is what might be described as bawdy.

[@johnd8892]

There was a US steam outline 0-8-0 in the Lone Star Treble O Lectric range as well as the US F7 style locomotive. In their British their were two four axle diesels. One flat fronted , like a BR class 24 and a more streamlined double cab loco modelled on the Baby Deltic. They powered these by a central motor and rubber band drive. The steam loco used that arrangement as a tender drive. A KZbin search for Lone Star Treble O Lectric will show some running and tuning tips. They seemed to be very close to the Triang OO/HO range for the rolling stock and couplers.

[@kenshores9900]

One last note! My problem with a layout is that I don’t have or want to commit a space for a permanent layout. I have had visions of a massive layout spanning a whole room with large scale industries and such. Oh well. You got to watch European especially if you are on diuretics!

[@pbyfr]

I just started last month a small Japanese N scale layout, to change a bit of my O-16.5 stuff. In Japan, most trains are at 1:150 as they are on Cape gauge, so it is a better fit for 9 mm. But Shinkansen going on standard gauge, they are at 1:160. As always, I choose something strange: the trains I have are at 1:150, but they are an exception as they are in standard gauge!

[@ToyManTelevision]

I believe 1:150 was 000 scale. Back in the day. Most just say N 1:150. But the same as I remember. 😊

[@stevemellin5806]

N scale is cool .it's just to small for me.Have a good week

[@ToyManTelevision]

Hi Steve.

[@robertweldon7909]

I think the "punn-ish" road names started with John Allen. Bendover and Sneeze" Ya, good one. I have found that pun names for industries is fun too. My best one was "Schmiller and Whientz" Pronounced "Smell-er and Wince" a fertilizer factory, slogan, "One whiff tells you it's Schmiller and Whientz" . I have found that N scale is just a bit to small for my hands. Still, the scale is far more advanced than when I first saw it in the 1960's. Another great video. ;-)

[@ToyManTelevision]

Now we name stuff after friends. Strelel springs. Dr Henricken. Mikes tattoo. Stuff like that.

[@johnd8892]

In Australia the N scale model that got so many people into modelling US outline in N scale was sold as the Sekisui/ConCor PA1. I understand Sekisui was the early name that Kato used. The six axle PA1 locomotives ran very well and was much more affordable compared to the European Arnold and Minitrix models. At that early era i never saw an Atlas FA advertised or on any exhibition N layouts at the time. Lots of ConCor PAs though pulling huge trains very reliably at exhibitions though. Are you sure you meant the Atlas FA was a landmark?

[@ToyManTelevision]

For me it was. First locomotive I had that out preformed my HO. About 1975? $30 too. Not bad.

[@johnd8892]

@@ToyManTelevision I found mire info about the PA1 I had first seen as reliable N scale running. From a site called Spookshow : Introduced: 1967 (Kato-made version), 1972 (revised Kato version), 1994 (Chinese-made version) and 2003 (Chinese-made DCC version) These Con-Cor Alcos are classics in every sense of the word. They were the very first N scale locomotives produced by Kato for Con-Cor (a partnership that would last for over twenty years) and were, without a doubt, the best N scale diesel locomotive models available for many years (the early years of N scale being, as many will attest, a very painful time filled with just a whole lot of crappy models). As noted above, there have been four distinct versions of this model (although the actual shells have remained pretty much the same throughout). Oh, and none of these models should be confused with the PA/PB models "Kato USA" released in 1998 - those being completely different animals alltogether.

[@davidwayneprins]

After talking about the Bend Over and Sneeze railroad and European manufactures, I was waiting for a tie in with the seventh planet from the sun.

[@gmmeier321]

Cap’t Kirk & tp: both circle Uranus wiping out Klingons

[@snchilders]

I always thought it would be fun to build a portable layout with forced perspective, where an HO train disappeared behind a hill or into a tunnel and came out the other side as N scale, apparently way off in the distance.

[@johnd8892]

I have seen it done at an exhibition in Australia about fifteen years ago. Although with British OO and N scale models that had the same models made in both scales. Might even be on KZbin.

[@ToyManTelevision]

A friend of ours, Kent, Hamilton, builds the best dioramas I’ve ever seen. His latest one is an artist studio in sort of a tenement apartment. It’s done in approximately 1/24 scale. But just outside the window is a 148 scale fire escape on a 148 scale building side. And just beyond that as a 1/87 scale fire escape on a 1/87 scale building side. And it really works! The diorama is only a few inches deep and yet it looks like it’s hundreds of feet deep.

[@johnd8892]

The term OOO for the gauge and scale was widespread before the N term was introduced in Europe after Lone Star put treble O in their posted system name. Kadee 1980s wheel cleaning brush still referred to OOO and not N in the paperwork instructions. I think you may find even Model Railroader magazine using that term for early N. The idea of 1, O, OO and OOO for diminishing sizes is not just from trains but things like artists paint brushes and infant children's clothing sizes. There were one or two UK genius scratchbuilders building in 000 scale of 2mm per foot but a gauge of 9.5 mm back as far as the twenties. Needing to scratch build even motors. Bert Groves is the name I remember. Active into the seventies with models looking very superior to most N.

[@ToyManTelevision]

Yup. Some of the bolts I’ve used on My trestle are 00-90. Most 4mm. But we’ll. Different yet the same. However totally different sizes. But close.

[@Dan.IdahoNorthernRy]

as long as you have a 3d printer and find a chassie that will fit the locomotive you want you can practically do any locomotive (steam or diesel) under the sun

[@ToyManTelevision]

Our friend Adam decided to duplicate every single piece of equipment on the Denver and Rio Grande on a particular day in the 1950s in n scale. And he did it! About half of the cars needed to be 3-D printed. Custom decals. All stores in boxes as he doesn’t have a layout.

[@ThatBIGTRAINGuy]

Oh don't you just hate it when completely unsuspecting it, you realise European? 🤦🏻‍♂️ I love N Scale. As a teen, I had a start set by German company Fleischmann, which I expended a bit. Then in 1998 I bought a model of Jupitor when visiting the Golden Spike site. This led to me building a 3x4 foot portable layout which was kinda intended to be pre-1900 American, (inspired by Back To The Future 3). I was about to start on the scenery when I started collecting Bachmann Big Hauler stuff. The layout is as I left it in the rafters of my parent's garage, with my trains and the bridges and pier I built from match sticks. I'm tempted to resurrect it sometime 🤔

[@ToyManTelevision]

We all have those unfinished layouts. Or sometimes a finished layout that later became unfinished that later became finished, and then became unfinished again.

[@sammisworkshops3762]

Your new RR will be named "Must Add Coffee" LOL or the Mac! hahahaha BOS and EUropean, OMGoodness.

[@ToyManTelevision]

Thanks!!!!!

[@jeffbangkok]

Hahaha. Good night

[@ToyManTelevision]

Sleep well.

[@frankhellman6879]

I think TT would have done better if it was introduced in the 80s or 90s. N scale was then, and still is, somewhat small for significant separate glue-on parts like ladders & rungs. Good detail at a small size has kept HO rolling for a long time. Up until now, N scale has certainly allowed limited space to hold a large railroad. Great for ops, but they do run finicky, which ops people hate. And as you pointed out, N scale equipment & structures are more difficult to build & detail well if you don't have surgeon's or artist's hands. TT might have had it's best chance 20-25 years ago, growing up along with the DCC age. It's a nice compromise, though it could be slightly smaller, maybe 1:135 (Tt? LOL!). But as technology is about where it needs to be to make N scale more detailed, better running, and palatable to more people, maybe with medical advances in hand/finger stabilization tech like in cameras, or better meds, I think it might be just too late. As homes grow smaller and more efficient, model railroads have to shrink. N scale is poised to become the "new black".

[@ToyManTelevision]

Hum… good points. But I think it would have taken off at anytime with the right marketing. Well not now… but 1945 to 2005. Ish.

[@growclipbonsaiforseniors1951]

N gauge is cool! I like your gauge videos. Will you be doing the Z gauge also?

[@ToyManTelevision]

Yup!! Tuesday. And t. And Nano.

[@kevinholland4156]

I had an N scale around the 1990's and couldn't find much equipment. Do you remember the Z scale? I always thought when I saw one running that it looked like a snake and not a train.

[@ToyManTelevision]

Next Tuesday. Z T and Nano. To 1:1000 scale.😂

[@invertd007]

your a peein'! LOL🤣

[@ToyManTelevision]

Hi!!!!!😊❤