Neo Geo Wannabe? The IGS PolyGame Master (PGM)

[@PabstOban]

I LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE this video! It is so cool to see games I remember getting a real kick out of in the Mame/FBA side of my emulation machines and seeing where they actually came from. The Knights of Valor series's's reminds me of how Street Fighter 2 got so many revisions. Also... its pretty significant you mentioned that King of Fighters game because its not just King of Fighters 98... its King of Fighters 98 "Ultimate Match". I know I wanted to buy a King of Fighters AES cart one day, and they are all pretty price less the first couple... so if If I was going to pop off on one, it would have to be the best of the affordable ones. Its tough to find MVS/AES exclusive opinions because people regard the ones ported to the PS2 and PC as some of the best versions. One of which that I hear WAY too often for it not to be a big deal is this "KoF 98 UM" which was on the PS2. People say it's an improvement to what they already considered the best of the AES/MVS released series. Now that I know that it was originally on the PGM... you'd have what I imagine is the ONLY arcade port of the game which a lot of people regard as the best of the series. The die hard KoF fan that wants it in an arcade cab might have to buy a PGM to get that ultimate fan arcade experience. VERY cool stuff!

[@ScarletSprites]

You’re spot on, it is the UM version. I realized that when I was looking at pictures and more video when editing. I don’t know that I love KoF enough to warrant picking it up, but for a die hard, that is definitely a unique version that would be worthwhile. If I could find a PGM2 set that came with a motherboard and several games I might be tempted. So many games, so little time!

[@ToddsNerdCave]

Haha thanks for the shout-out! I dig the PGM, but my biggest gripe with it is the lack of documentation for repairing the motherboards. I've owned maybe 5 different PGM boards and several of them had issues and there is quite literally almost zero technical documentation out there. I guess IGS never published anything like that. So when it comes to repairs it can be a bit trial and error. Great video that nicely sums up the platform!

[@ScarletSprites]

You’re welcome Todd, sorry I didn’t give you a heads up sooner. I’ve heard that the boards aren’t the greatest. I’ve seen James from JNX comment on how cheaply they are made several times.

[@cryangallegos]

Ironically I learned about PGM after playing Martial Masters...in a NeoGeo cabinet at a local arcade in Arlington, TX

[@ScarletSprites]

Hah, that’s amazing. I don’t recall ever seeing PGM games in an arcade here in the States. Entirely possible it’s just that, I don’t remember them.

[@Rezo_Arcade]

The best pgm game is "Gladiator Road to the Sword" not mentioned. The best Beat em up of XXI Century

[@ScarletSprites]

Hah, that's a bold statement. I do have that cart though. It's fun.

[@pwnswoggle]

Ok this is a super weird comment but I used to work as an autocue operator for about 4 years a long time ago and I just have to say that even though I can tell you're reading, you hide it very well and are very good at presenting.

[@ScarletSprites]

Thanks man, I’ve adapted over time. Like most people on here I have no formal training or even experience of any kind. Just kind of learn as I go. Sometimes I’ll write out pieces, or just bulletpoint topics/ideas and then elaborate. I’ve found it’s far easier than winging it and editing out tons of garbage footage.

[@pwnswoggle]

@@ScarletSprites That's awesome man, I really enjoy your stuff and appreciate the work that goes into it.

[@vidlink]

Never heard of that board or any of those games but it is good to see a new and informative video from you anyways.

[@ScarletSprites]

Thanks man! Let me know if you checkout any of those titles.

[@vidlink]

@@ScarletSprites: Will do.

[@KikenEnryu]

All four of the Cave shmups released on the PGM hardware have received console ports in Japan. ESPGaluda and Dodonpachi Daioujou both received stellar PS2 ports thanks to Arika. Dodonpachi Daioujou Black Label and Ketsui: Kizuna Jigokutachi were both ported to the 360 courtesy of 5pb (Ketsui would then later see a PS3 port). A newer PS4 port of Ketsui from M2 (part of their Shot Trigger series) is still forthcoming.

[@ScarletSprites]

I’ve actually seen the 360 versions online, but I was unaware of the PlayStation lineup. I’ll likely continue emulating, but this is great info for those who want legit copies in their library. Thanks so much for sharing.

[@vasileios6301]

Martial Masters is among the best 2d fighting games ever made. Its like a combination of SF3,SFA2 and Garou,

[@ScarletSprites]

That game has gotten a lot of love in the comments. I’m definitely going to have to revisit it.

[@vasileios6301]

@@ScarletSprites Sure,just load it up in MAME,it plays perfectly.A true hidden gem

[@GenyaArikado]

IGS did copy Capcoms games but they are still amazing. Bee Storm, Killing Blade, Demon Front, Knights of valour (all of them) Oriental Legends 1 & 2 and Gladiator are very fun games

[@TravisLohmannMusic]

finally started playing this one. I'm gonna have to look into other IGS games too!

[@GenyaArikado]

@ciaran perry Demon Front is a clone of Metal Slug (SNK)...Knights Of Valour is very similar to Warriors Of Fate (Capcom). Oriental Legends 2 and The Gladiator are very similar to Dungeons And Dragons (Capcom). Although they are similar i really enjoy them. Taiwan FTW!

[@Charlie-Cat.]

You're welcome Scarlet. Yeah, when I first seen it coming out of the box, I had to ask the distributor what it was. I thought it was from SNK, but he told me it was from a company in Taiwan. That really raised my curiosity because I never read or heard much from the Taiwanese in regards to video games. So that sparked my interest for sure. 8^) Anthony..

[@Red5.]

Sweet pick up, very interesting haven’t seen this before. Thanks for sharing!

[@ScarletSprites]

You know you need one now 😉

[@Red5.]

Scarlet Sprites lol your a mind reader. This is on the less expensive side, maybe after the holidays ;) I’m around a month away from my retrotink shipping, so hyped for it

[@nightwolf29]

Interesting facts about this system,never heard about it till now. Thanks for sharing!

[@ScarletSprites]

Glad to share! It’s probably clear, but Demon Front and the Cave games are my favorites. I’d recommend starting there, but I’m a little biased.

[@GenyaArikado]

Oriental Legends 2 is an amazing beat em up!

[@Martys2DGaming]

Very cool man! I picked up my first PGM board in 2013. I love the system as much as the MVS. There is some great games for it. Martial Masters, Demon Front and KOV 2 are must haves. It’s too bad that Gladiator has gone up in price recently because that’s another great game for the system. Awesome video man!

[@ScarletSprites]

I’ve seen Gladiator a few times, but you’re right, it’s been more expensive than the other games I have. I do like Demon Front, and I’ll have to tear through KoV2 again with some of the other characters. It’s definitely a guilty pleasure type of system. I wish the library was a little bigger, but overall I’ve been having fun with what I have.

[@Martys2DGaming]

Scarlet Sprites About a year ago I finally found a PGM cart of Spectral vs Generation. It took me 5 years to find a copy for sale. I guess that game is the rarest cart for the PGM. It’s a good fighter so I can see why. Enjoy the system man! Plus, Demon Front for me is similar to Metal Slug but it’s it’s own game and has more depth with the chaining combo system. Also I wish those Cave conversations were more available. I’m looking for Ketsui. Love that game.

[@ScarletSprites]

I’ve seen SvG twice, but each time it was way more money than I’d spend for a system I’m not overly nostalgic for. I definitely agree with your point on Demon Front though is well taken. It’s definitely one of those that you gain more awareness of the intricacies over time.

[@Charlie-Cat.]

This was a pretty intriguing device when I first saw it Scarlet. I remember seeing it in Chinatown when it was first being installed. I thought it was a cool piece to be used and a good amount of games were made. Too bad many in the area where I lived didn't think much of it though. But glad you're giving it light to a new bunch of enthusiastic gamers in the community to find out more about this product bro. 8^) Well done as always Scarlet. Keep up the great work. 8^) Anthony..

[@ScarletSprites]

Thanks Anthony! Love hearing that you actually saw these back in the day in Chinatown. That’s really cool.

[@tonymcnamee2741]

I have had PGM for a years and only have Demon Front. Desperate to get Martial Masters but it is so rare.

[@ScarletSprites]

Its been pretty expensive each time I’ve seen it too. Best of luck hunting that one down. That’s probably going to be an emulator game for me unless I find a steal.

[@tonymcnamee2741]

@@ScarletSprites Yeah, sadly I think this is the way for me too.

[@EdsRetroGeekOut]

those shooters and demon front look pretty good damn cool I never heard about this system before :-D awesome video!

[@ScarletSprites]

Thanks Ed! They run well in final burn alpha, I’d recommend checking them out!

[@RemoWilliams1227]

Glad I'm not the only one, I've been gaming 40 years and somehow this passed me by.

[@VideoGameVictims]

PGM needs a Flash Cart like the NeoSD or Darksoft solutions for the MVS.

[@ScarletSprites]

It’s been talked about and rumored for a while. I’d love to see that happen too.

[@phouleng]

Only 16 games?

[@SkyScourgeGod]

@@phouleng That didn't stop Darksoft from making one for the Sega ST-V. Some ST-V games are even on Saturn, yet the multicart still exists. IGS PGM should be no exception.

[@jamesstuart5877]

The fact that IGS had the capabilities to meet and match the Neo-Geo platform adds depth to who they are as a company. You may know them more from their dozens of slot machine titles.

[@ScarletSprites]

It’s no doubt a great 2D system. The games look stellar. The hardware coming out seven years after the Neo Geo though made things just a little easier and cheaper on them. A seven year jump for technology in the 90s was huge. I don’t think we’ve seen things snowball with quantum leaps in capabilities that fast since.

[@jarrodjob]

Scarlet Sprites. Love ya bub. Great takes.

[@ScarletSprites]

Thanks Jarrod, much appreciated!

[@guangsihan]

I grew up playing these games in arcade in mainland China in the 90s. I'll talk a bit more later. (I'm on my way to work). EDIT: OK, so here is some information: First, the company - IGS, (original Chinese name: 鈊象电子), short for "International Games System", based in Taiwan, and it's actually still around today. You can google this company or simply access their website ( www.igs.com.tw ) so I won't talk too much about it. Second, the games. I'll start with the one that I played most - Oriental Legend, (original Chinese name: 西游释厄传), which is based on the Chinese novel "Journey to the West". Some background here: "Journey to the West" is extremely popular in China, from 2-year-old to 115-year-old, every native Chinese speaker knows the story and the characters (e.g. Sun Wukong aka The Monkey King, etc.). It's already in the blood of Chinese people. If there exist zombies, or living deads in China, they should know it too. As a result, there are tons of video games, TV series, movies and anime that are based on it (even Goku from the Japanese "Dragon Ball" series is actually based on Sun Wukong), and one of them being the "Oriental Legend". At a first glance, it's just a regular beat 'em up game, with a ring-like menu for the items/spells/powers, similar to "Dungeons & Dragons: Shadow over Mystara" from Capcom. But it's A LOT more complicated, and A LOT more technical. You have four buttons: A-attack, B-jump, C-show/hide items, D-use items. There are five playable characters in this game, and each one has his/her own specialty (more in a bit). But they do share some common moves/mechanisms, for example, for each character, ↓ + B does a dash attack, pressing AB together does a special attack but also damages your health, holding ABC together will charge your power gauge (similar as the early KOF games). When your power gauge is full, the power gauge bar will blink/flash and you will be able to do some other special moves, for example, ← ↙ ↓ ↘ → ← → + A is the super move command, and B (jump) + (while in mid air) ← ↙ ↓ ↘ → + A is another special move. There are so many special moves in this game, as if you are playing Street Fighter 2. You can even do a "combo move" with another character by pressing ABC at the same time when both of the two characters are fully charged. When this happens, these two characters will run/jump into each other and do a special combo move and cause a serious damage, which is useful for (some) boss fights. There are tons of items to collect, and each character also has his/her own exclusive item and can only be picked up by this particular character. The five characters represent the five elements, aka "Wu Xing" (Chinese: 五行) in the Chinese philosophy ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_Xing ). And they are - Metal (金), Wood (木), Water (水), Fire (火), and Earth (土). Some elements can conquer/destruct others, for example, Fire vs Water. And now back to the game, again, each character represents one element, for example, Long-Ma (龙马) represents "Wood", and his own special item is "Wood", so when you see a round/circle item with this Chinese word/character "木" (it looks like this sign ㊍), you should pick it up and use it. It performs a special attack called "突木桩", roughly translated as "fake wood stick (or stake)", which will pop out some fake wood sticks from ground and raise the enemies high up and then these fake wood sticks suddenly disappear and the enemies will fall and get hurt (or killed). But if you (Long-Ma) see another item - "Metal" (金), then don't try to pick it up, as it will damage you. Because Metal overcomes/conquers Wood in "Wu Xing". Another common mechanism is, all the items have a limited amount of time for you to pick up, after some time, they will first blink/flash, and then disappear so you will need to pick them up earlier than later. This is nothing new, but for the five special items (Wu Xing), if you are playing with a friend, and he/she is busy fighting other enemies and is too far away to move over to pick up his/her exclusive item, and this item is now blinking/flashing, meaning it'll disappear in a few seconds, now at this point if you are close to the item you can pick it up, but you are not really "picking it up", instead you will perform a 'pick-up' action/movement and this will refresh/restart the duration of this item, so it'll stop blinking/flashing, giving your friend more time to come over and pick it up. But again you need to remember which items you cannot pick up (because they might damage you). Also, there are multiple paths during the game play and of course different story lines and/or endings accordingly, some characters are good for this path, and some are good for that path, you get the idea. As you can probably tell so far, this game has some serious technics/strategies and involves some level of Chinese philosophy. It is clearly targeted to the Asian (mostly Chinese) market. The game does have English language option, but even if you set it to English, you will still find a lot of Chinese characters in the game, not because they are lazy to translate them, but some of these Chinese words are really difficult to translate into other languages, even if they do get translated, their meanings will get lost and the translations probably won't make too much sense either. All in all, this is just one game, there is a 'Super' version of this game, and there is also a true sequel to this game. And there are more games from IGS, like Knights of Valour (and its many variations/sequels), which is even more complicated than Oriental Legend. Knights of Valour has a ton of revisions, the original ver.110, rev.115, 117, 119, etc. They have different characters, different battle mechanisms, different items, etc. some differences are minor, while others are huge. And this game (Knights of Valour) is so popular in China that it even had a PS4 remake in 2015, but it got mostly bad reviews. I played these IGS games in the 90s when I was a kid in China, and I've been playing them for years until I moved to U.S. a few years back, and I still can't say I master at these games, not even close. These games (Oriental Legend and Knights of Valour in particular) are considered to be difficult/deep for new comers, and there's a huge learning curve (if you want to dig deep), and same can be said for Demon Front, as it's a lot more complicated than just run 'n gun games (trust me on this). But they are extremely popular in China, almost every arcade place has (or should I say 'used to have' as arcade in general is going down) at least one of these games. Even today there are lots of forums, websites, live streams, speed runs etc. in the Chinese gaming community (via emulations) and people still talk about them. And also they are more fun to play with multiple players for those crazy combo moves that a single player simply can't perform. Sorry for writing a book but even then I feel like this is still scratching the surface lol.

[@ScarletSprites]

That is super awesome to hear! One of my favorite things to read are comments and feedback on how games were perceived in other parts of the world. Definitely let us know, thanks for commenting!

[@guangsihan]

@@ScarletSprites Thanks, I made some updates :)

[@_kikaso]

This is really great information. Thank you for taking the time to post it. Do you know what the game differences are for the Knights of Valour series?

[@msamiullah001]

awesome video, Espgaluda was released on PS2 in Japan, amazing game

[@JasonALMS2010]

Used to play Martial Masters and the sequel online on fightcade

[@ScarletSprites]

Nice! I’m not a huge fighting game fan but I really do like the sprites/artwork in MM.

[@Astolfo2001]

Martial Masters got a sequel?

[@GenyaArikado]

IGS has some really good gems out there

[@mrpepperami01]

Great video had never heard of this system

[@ScarletSprites]

This one is a little under the radar. I think even those of us that are aware have difficulty tracking info down for this system. Luke Morse seems to be a great resource, and also has one of the healthiest collection of carts I’ve seen.

[@xktwnxl4zlx213]

I liked the video and subscribed! I

[@ScarletSprites]

That’s awesome, I love hearing throwback nods and memories. We really didn’t have this here in the States, at least not that I ever saw anywhere. I’ve been playing the PGM1 on my Astro City cab, which has a Seimitsu stick and ball top.

[@Charlie-Cat.]

Also, I'll gladly post this up on the Neo-Geo thread as well. I did a few videos about the PGM before. So this will be a fine addition to post on there as well. 8^)

[@ScarletSprites]

Thanks man!

[@jasonwilliam3403]

Thanks for the video.. can we upload an IGS Polygame cartridge into Neo Geo MVS arcade cabinet? Or does IGS has its own arcade machine?

[@ScarletSprites]

I think the pinout is the same as an MV1C (Jamma + a fourth button). It isn’t the same as a “regular” Neo Geo, though I suspect you could use a JNX adapter for that.

[@SkyScourgeGod]

I recently commented on your ST-V video saying the ST-V would be my go-to arcade board to start an arcade collection... I may have to make some room for this thing as well. I had never heard of this system before watching this video, but I remember taking a look around AliExpress and seeing ads for these weird red cartridges that looked like Neo Geo carts. Being a complete amateur in the arcade department I figured they were some kind of Neo Geo bootleg, boy was I wrong lol. The IGS looks pretty neat and the games don't seem too expensive even two years after this video. The only ones of extreme value seem to be the Cave shooters and any carts that had English programmed on them. I could live with imported carts and spending a few hundred on the Cave shooters that have been converted to cart form. I've certainly seen much worse prices on other systems, Neo Geo and PC Engine especially.

[@ScarletSprites]

This does seem to fly a little under the radar outside of the arcade enthusiasts. It’s nice because it’s Jamma so plug and play in most cases (except you will need a fourth button for a few games). It’s a fun system and 2D games are really done right on here. A lot of people argue Demon Front is better than Metal Slug. Follow gc8tech on Twitter. He rehabs boards and makes repro carts (the right way).

[@SkyScourgeGod]

@@ScarletSprites I don' know if I would say that Demon Front is "better", but it's got some neat perks and differences that make it stand out. Thanks for the tip my dude, I'll keep that in mind when the time is right! ;)

[@snkfightfan0187]

I love Martial Masters on the PGM. Awesome fighter not a lot of people know about. Thanks for vid!

[@ScarletSprites]

Yeah, I just finished reading level1online’s comment as well. It sounds like I need to go back and revisit this again. I definitely liked what I saw with it, I’m usually just too easily persuaded back to SNK or Capcom. I’ll have to commit to it for at least a week.

[@snkfightfan0187]

@@ScarletSprites Yea, I did a playthrough on my channel of Martial Masters. I had a lot of fun playing it and play it from time to time. Unfortunately, I cant own an original copy due to its hefty price tag but I enjoy it on the Pandoras Box.

[@almostliterally593]

Strikers 1945 PLUS in the background!! Hell yeah, i love psikyo

[@ScarletSprites]

I like that game more than I should. It’s often plugged into the Neo cab.

[@almostliterally593]

Scarlet Sprites what do You mean more than you should? The whole strikers series is fantastic

[@almostliterally593]

The neogeo version is special because it adds insanely smooth explosion animations, not found in any other entry in the series. Also it’s probably the largest shmup on the neo by meg size. 684 MEGA POWER! Significantly bigger than pulstar or Blazing star!

[@DJAlexUnderBase]

Cool system ! It's on my list and the Cave are there too ! Hope a multicart will come for them (for cave i don't think so, but for IGS Pgm will be for sure)

[@ScarletSprites]

I think Darksoft mentioned it was a possibility, but to not get too far ahead of ourselves. Here’s hoping we see a multi in the next few years.

[@jotakux7489]

What’s that shmup to your right(our left) on that final tuned arcade? Haven’t played that yet.

[@ScarletSprites]

Gigawing 2, there’s a Dreamcast port of it.

[@KatRollo]

Demon Front actually plays smoother and does not suffer from the slowdowns Metal Slug is known for.

[@humanencountersthelawsofth87]

What about Taito F3?

[@ObiWanShinobi67]

Anyone make a consolized version?

[@ScarletSprites]

Maybe @gc8tech on Twitter? He is definitely the go to resource for archiving this system.

[@ObiWanShinobi67]

@@ScarletSprites thanks man

[@overkill1473]

Demon Front is Metal Slug done right. Martial Masters is pretty sick too.

[@ScarletSprites]

A lot of love for Martial Masters in the comments. I’m definitely going to have to circle back on that one.

[@Consoletronix]

Very cool video, very informative.

[@ScarletSprites]

Thanks man, let me know if you get around to playing any of these and what you think.

[@VaughnJogVlog]

Never heard of any of this, but that’s some pretty sweet pixel art graphics. CPS3-esque if not better.

[@ScarletSprites]

Yeah, discovering new games and seeing the art styles of this generation is always cool. I feel like the animation might be lacking just a little on a few of these titles, but overall these games are easy to look at.

[@SAWmacaco]

spectral vs generation was ported for ps2

[@supernole75]

I recently subscribed and noticed this video among your others. I love the PGM and as others have mentioned, Martial Masters is great as well as The Gladiator.

[@ScarletSprites]

Thanks. I was able to pickup Gladiator at the end of the summer actually, it’s pretty great!

[@RemoWilliams1227]

Uh oh, these games look fun, going to have to fire up the mame pc 😁

[@ScarletSprites]

Definitely give the Cave stuff a shot (pun intended) if you’ve never played them. They’re pretty much their own genre.

[@RemoWilliams1227]

@@ScarletSprites you bet I will! Also I love it when creators interact like this. Trust me I'll be sharing your channel with my nerd brethren.

[@ScarletSprites]

@@RemoWilliams1227 The benefit of being a small channel is still having a chance to read and respond to many people. Enjoy the Cave games man!

[@energyzer_bunny1913]

Was there some type of Unibios on this thing?

[@ScarletSprites]

I don’t believe so. In fact, I think unlike the Neo language/region is driven by the cart. I know I’ve read some people have taken their chips off a cart, burned a different language, and popped the new one back on in order to have English text.

[@frostyhighway9011]

Good video! Someone should hack these games and load them onto a 100 in one cart for the MVS and AES that way some of us could play these Koren or China games that we have never played that would be cool.

[@ScarletSprites]

Thanks Frosty. Its probably more likely to see them appear on a multi for the PGM honestly. I'm not much of a coder, but I can imagine that would be a bit of an undertaking making that format conversion. Probably not worth the time investment. As it stands today, the PGM boards can be had for $50 - $60 and then used with a supergun or an arcade machine. Ultimately though, yes, we need some type of multicart option for this system.

[@Sr.D]

For those asking, aFBA works great for igs pgm on Android, don't even try with mame4droid.

[@afropowa1598]

I am surprise no Japanese or Western company just ported these games to various consoles. I know the license fee wouldn't be too high.

[@ScarletSprites]

Sounds like the Cave shooters made their way to 360 and PS in Japan, but the other titles are all MIA. Like you mentioned, it doesn’t seem like licensing would be too much. The question becomes whether people would buy them given how unknown they are. Maybe an IGS PGM Classic next year? Lol.

[@seansomething9779]

Fucking. Beautiful. Thank. You. So glad to learn all this. Any of these games run on the super retrocade? Otherwise gotta check em on my phone but im stoked nothing fascinates me more than bootlegs and rip offs especially relating snk and the mvs

[@ScarletSprites]

I’m not familiar with the Super Retrocade really, but the PGM titles all run fine through Final Burn Alpha on a Pi or PC. Definitely give them a shot if you get a chance.

[@JONATHANMAZZINI]

Pgm games run pgm2?

[@theelitegamer1980]

games look nice, but that console not so much not protected then need add a card.. looks more like a pc then console

[@pandnh4]

Who the F@$" makes a neo geo board without a factory 4th button set up.

[@bjmajor]

Wow, didn't know this system or games for it was out there -- but everything in me screams copyright infingement...really seems like they intentionally ripped off SNK'S MVS design and concept. That totally rubs me the wrong way. SNK was so innovative with this concept that I don't know if I could get behind something like this even if it did have great games. That being said, I am still upset that SNK doesn't make its own hardware any longer. And that helps to leave the door open for companies like this....😕

[@ScarletSprites]

Well to be fair, this was cashing in towards the twilight of the Neo Geo’s lifespan, and the concept of console/cartridge was being done by many of the big players. It was probably just more prevalent and visible on the home console market. All that being said, yes, I think it’s pretty clear IGS was using the Neo as a blueprint for their arcade system.