Schrödinger's NERF Bat - Was pre-nerfing Votann the right call?

[@petararmbruster5039]

A major issue I feel about 40k as a whole is the staggered released style for codex's, if they playtested each new codex all at once it would take longer and be harder, but would be much more balanced, then released all of them one month after another for logistic reasons

[@TrippyTheShroom]

Honestly, I think 10th should just be a clean slate wipe. I know everyone and their mother says the game is in the best state it's ever been in in 9th but from someone who has attempted and failed to teach this game to multiple friends, it's just far, far, *far* too clunky for it's own good. Almost every person I've tried to teach the rules to say the game is fun but there's too many rules (and the cost of actually collecting models is too high but that's an entirely different rant). I agree that, at this point, I think Indexes are necessary. The biggest point that I absolutely, 110% agree with though is that I genuinely feel like GW has ran the wheels off the D6 system. I know and understand why they want to keep it D6, but if they upped it from D6 to D10 I think it would blow the doors wide open for new avenues to take rules down and allow the rules to "breathe" a bit and be less restricted than how they feel with a D6. Plus, everyone already does percentage math in their heads with the D6, atleast with the D10 you could actually just say, "Well, my Space Marine has a 70% chance to hit any target he shoots at because he hits on 3+", etc. Armor saves and AP would feel better as well. I dunno, the D6 system is something I've said should go the way of the dodo for years at this point so hearing someone mention it as a possible course that GW should consider is something I absolutely agree with.

[@Redlady1917]

I have always wanted a version using D12s, so that units can actually feel unique. Guardsmen are quite different than space marines and do not at all feel that way.

[@ummdustry5718]

@@Redlady1917 Also D12s are still platonic solids, whilst D10s aren't.

[@Commodore22345]

"I know everyone and their mother says the game is in the best state it's ever been in in 9th but from someone who has attempted and failed to teach this game to multiple friends, it's just far, far, far too clunky for it's own good." I honestly think early to mid 8th Edition was the best the game has ever been. It got rid of most of the rules bloat from 7th Edition and greatly streamlined the game and made it much easier for a newcomer to understand quickly, while still maintaining tactical depth, In other words, I would describe early to mid 8th Edition 40k as "easy to learn, hard to master" which is exactly how I think a miniature wargame should be. It was late 8th Edition though where we started to see the rules bloat start creeping back in until it turned into the clunky, over-complicated mess that is 9th Edition. It's still not as bad as 7th Edition, but 9th defeated the whole purpose of why they did a hard reset in 8th. The game was supposed to become more streamlined and 8th achieved that objective perfectly whereas 9th has gone in the complete opposite direction.

[@GodOfGunz]

Maths of 3+ is 80%

[@danielsandefur7364]

Welp this was pretty prophetic

[@borklazer5907]

"And they'll release a new Redemptor Dreadnought." Would you look at that.

[@mikesecondname]

Wow. You guys blew up in just a few months. Congratulations 🎉

[@LezbionestHere]

The game desperately needs to change to a d10 system. Would shake things up, but would be great for the long term health of the game

[@derpaton4354]

I'm not gonna buy a bucket of d10s. I could, but i don't wanna

[@Baumdragoon]

I hope they do a video about how broken the guard codex is as they have auto wounding on 6s to hit counting as 6s to wound and they can bump it to a 5+. Lol leauges got screwed . They just needed to remove the railgun splash. And it would be no less broken then 90% of the top armies

[@PostProteusKitten]

25:17 fuckin' called it Including the new dread 😂

[@carlosvarona220]

Watching this after warhammer fest 2023 is crazy, like 90% of the things they said were right

[@sirderik]

Eh it's a good decision they hyped up because... They fucked up. Like votaan out the gate judging form hindsight would been unplaybely busted

[@pancakenart]

shockingly accurate 10th predictions!

[@Azrael178]

You know what. At this point I don't even think about free rules for factions. The best realistic way they can be convinced to do accessable rules is selling codexes just like now, but add a website thats functionally a carbon copy of wahapedia and make it like 5/10 $per month subscription to all rules for all factions on release day.. just make it look sleeker. As long as core rules are free I would legit be happy with that solution instead of the current state of " I use wahapedia for rules because I can't be f-ed checking a spreadsheet worth of erratas and corrections"

[@Seeraphyn]

They're never going to do free rules. My only hope is that they might switch to a subscription based digital format. The problem for us with the subscription service that already exists is that on top of what you pay every month you must still buy your codex at full price to unlock its contents in their garbage App, which is stupid. It's like someone on a board meeting asked "Hey subscriptions are a massive trend these days, shouldn't we make our rules a subscription instead of a one time purchase since we frequently update them?" And James Workshop slowly turned in his chair twirling his moustache and said "Yeeees... Make them pay the subscription AND the one-time purchase. Yeees. *Evil Laughs*" Now given that nobody actually bought their stupid subscription service they might reconsider, but there is still one massive problem: their app is complete garbage, with rules all over the place, no links, and no possibility to search for rules quickly. And there is one digital place where you can get all your rules neatly organized with points costs actually on your datasheets, and relevant stratagems neatly packaged just under the datasheet. For free. And it comes first when you try to look up a datasheet on Google. No one's going to pay for a service that is worse and harder to find than the free version.

[@Barrlounge]

Just curious how's this comment feel for you now with the 10th announcement?

[@monkey2184]

jesus you were so fucking right.

[@colbyryan7877]

IG before January Oh sweet summer child

[@d-anca3491]

They made a Simpsons prediction and got it exactly

[@Hurricanelive]

They gave Votann the stuff that should have been given to firstborne (rules) and the Tau (the tech and weapons) to a fantasy faction that should not exist. So two factions got entirely robbed for a garbage xeno faction.

[@christophersmith8848]

More like got robbed for the best xenos faction

[@D34DM4NW47K1N6]

I just started collecting them based almost entirely from lore stuff, and i hope they fix the nonsense in the codex before i start playing them.

[@fletcherspillman4602]

Ha ha lasgun go zap

[@Sadistichippo]

Guard Codex Before January* *2025

[@metalblizzard6024]

In hindsight... no

[@omenmarin7903]

Hold up, are you telling that they sell the books, codex and rules, change them overtime, and if something is broke/unbalance, you have to wait for months, not just to fix it, but to rewrite such rules, you have to re buy everything, and if you are not update, you don't get to play??? (Well, that depends more on those that are playing) WHY IS NOT DIGITAL????? I don't play table top, but I watch a couple of battle reports here and there, WHY IS NOT FUCKING DIGITAL

[@cheesebucket142]

*Mr Krabs voice* Money.

[@justinhhp87]

no, they shhould have let the their codex and release come out in full, theyve allowed the same with harlequins, nids and custodes to exist for at least few weeks before they were nerfed because im sure they know their are broken aspects for both the guard and world eaters coming out, so they should be patched day 1 like the did for the votannn

[@georgekerscher5355]

Apparently the Guard Codex had most of its stuff leaked recently through multiple sources, assuming you haven't heard given the leaks came out like a day or two ago

[@Grubnar]

Warhammer 40.000 is dead to me. There is no game left there to play. There is no fun to have. I still like the lore, and the models, but the actual game is dead. They killed it. I am not gonna play this "pay2win" bullshit!

[@peterclarke7240]

Yep. I'm experimenting in other, simpler systems that don't swallow all of my time and money, and it's been fun getting other 40kers to try them, particularly as they tend to be miniature-agnostic, so it's easy to transfer existing miniatures over with very little cost or effort involved. Stargrave is currently what we're playing, and it's so straightforward to play, doesn't require hours of your life, and narrative campaigns are just so much easier to arrange.

[@Grubnar]

@@peterclarke7240 Maybe I´ll check that out. Thanks!

[@Commodore22345]

@@dudemcfurgusson7179 I've played Grimdark Future and I don't like it. It has the exact opposite issue that 40k has. 40k is overly complicated and has too much "rules bloat" whereas I think Grimdark Future is simplified to the point there is no real tactical depth to the game. If there were a ruleset that could serve as a middle point between those two extremes, I think we'd have ourselves a pretty fun wargame.