Dune Ornithopters and Dragonfly Physics with Prof. Jane Wang

In Dune we see the Ornithopters glide and dive and hover, in seamless transitions between methods of flight, which they can do because . . . CGI. In real dragonflies, how is that possible? And why is that remarkable? Our guest, Prof. Jane Wang of Cornell’s Department and Physics and Sibley School of Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering explains.

[@stacymcmahon453]

This gives me flashbacks to some of my college professors who clearly knew the subject but couldn't clearly explain it to save their lives.

[@EvanStWart]

I would imagine complex engineering based on the dragonfly gets us there. But can we put the materials together to stand the forces? dragonflies have insane abilities

[@rhatcher010]

Dune takes place over 20,000 years into our future. Roughly 10,000 years after overthrowing thinking machines in the wake of a vast interstellar holy war. After all that time, materials science may have progressed a great deal indeed.

[@2010Zanoza2]

Try to search by ornithopter on youtube, it's a real flying machine. Approx. 3 years ago was the first flight.

[@lohikarhu734]

Dr. Wang's discussion of aircraft maneuverability doesn't include the newer aerodynamic conditions of inherently-unstable flight, like many canard designs, and thrust vectoring...i'm sure that we'll be seeing new dimensions of performance with dynamically-variable airfoils and shapes, even integrated into aircraft bodies...great discussion!

[@lucagiovanetti9870]

I don't know if it's scientifically based...but the ornithopters in Dune are amazing and really cool!

[@stilgard7727]

In the Dune saga the ornithopters are biomechanical for some parts, if i remember well.

[@fredashay]

@@stilgard7727 When the LHC discovers the cool particle, that will create the unified theory.

[@charlesajones77]

@@stilgard7727I've heard that before, but I forget where. Pretty sure none of the original books say that, but maybe the Dune Encyclopedia?

[@tonyrebamonte]

you came here after you watched Dune Part 2? Yes we vibe!

[@usefulprogrammer9880]

The physics answer truly is that there’s no physical limitation to our technology mimicking dragonfly flight. It’s just much less efficient to do that than it is through conventional propeller based thrust.

[@Gustav_Kuriga]

Actually incorrect. There are drones currently that are based on dragonfly biomechanics that are much more efficient than either prop or rotor drones.

[@Allan_aka_RocKITEman]

FWIW: DECADES AGO, it was explained to me in basic terms that a _"fluid"_ is something that can _"flow."_ So both _air_ and _water_ are considered _fluids._

[@vell0cet517]

This is fascinating, I'm pretty shocked it doesn't have more 👍. Dr. Wang is super cool!

[@dondragmer2412]

Seeing as how they're designed after dragon flies and "ornitho-" means bird-like, they should not be called ornithopters. They should be called "entomothopters" or "entomopters" after "entomo-" meaning insect-like.

[@stacymcmahon453]

Yup, ornithopter means flying like a bird, not a bug. Frank Herbert had the good sense to avoid trying to describe these machines in the novel. How it worked under the hood wasn't the point, it was just supposed to add to the alien feeling of the far future. The dragonfly-opters in the movie do look super cool though.

[@adaddinsane]

Technically correct but the term was coined (way way back) to describe a machine that flew by flapping its wings. At the time no one considered you'd use anything other than a bird as the model for that. As a side note, there are quite a few other heavier-than-air means of generating lift beyond fixed or moving wing. It's just that fixed wing is the easiest.

[@graemebrumfitt6668]

Very interesting questions and answers! TFS, GB :)

[@michaelwoernle378]

Prof. Wang mentioned that birds' flight was inspiring thoughts about human flying. Indeed, one of the fundamental works was Otto Lilienthal's "Der Vogelflug als Grundlage der Fliegekunst" (Birds' flight as the basis of the art of flying) from 1889. I admire how Prof Wang uses this SF story to teach us about the amazing "engineering" feats of nature and the basics of aerodynamics and regret how little this is appreciated (or understood) in most commentaries.

[@gandaulf_fpv6925]

So very interesting thank you very much for the video!

[@2010Zanoza2]

Ornithopter from Dune is recreated by some youtubers (try to serch Serenity ornithopter) and it's flying without any problems except some vibration. So it's fully realistic machine.

[@lyudmila7715]

The issue isn't that you can't make one. The issue is that it causes excess stress on components and requires more energy whilst being able to fly a fraction of the weight of a basic helicopter with even worse turning and fuel efficiency. Barring the inception of some new wonder material it's just a dead end for now.

[@cartmanrlsusall]

I am so in love with this science lady with the cute accent and a lot of information about dragonfly wings❤

[@AndrewNiccol]

Please make a episode about movie Gattaca.

[@lohikarhu734]

Dr. Wang just gave me that interesting perspective on the nature of the analysis of an effectively infinite expansion of the movement/interaction of the fluid field...one usually sees an analysis, or imaging, of a very limited distance from a body traveling through a fluid, yet, as has been seen, a submarine, traveling 100 m down, makes a 'hump' on the surface that can be detected by satellites ...

[@Allan_aka_RocKITEman]

At about 02:17 in this video: *DRAGONFLY: **_"CATS got NUTHIN' on ME."_* 😉

[@randyanderson5653]

Perhaps this could be a good technology to use on Mars due to the much lower air density. Id like to see an Ornithopter flying on Mars.

[@hallahgray3190]

As I understand during Jurassic times, the oxygen levels of earth were very high. I wonder if we raised insects in laboratory under extremely high oxygen conditions would it affect the insects size just asking for a friend?.

[@TimBarnett-pl9kd]

33ft of water is same weight as air from earth to space. Or 1 Atmosphere (Atm) so, if you weigh 100lbs on surface, you'd weigh another ATM or now 200lbs needed to lift off bottom. At 100ft your at 3 atmospheres needing 300lbs lifting pressure to lift off bottom!

[@jonnupe1645]

Commenting for KZbin algorithm

[@peterfarkas7450]

Just made me think when the Quantum Mechanics will step into the equation ... and solve the mysteries from a whole new level.

[@lyudmila7715]

Quantum mechanics has applicability to the very small. Macro scale things still have to follow the same fluid dynamics they always have. It'll be useful for computing and possibly fusion generators and down the road creation of nano machines but unlikely to suddenly fix road blocks we currently face with fluid dynamics.

[@svenhaheim]

Nerds want wants nerds want :) if those can ever be physically made they will be eventually.

[@rickheidshow6467]

Maybe...it would be scriptural if...it gets right to the brink, and a "relatively unknown" person brokers peace. The prop machine goes to work and... read Rev.

[@AlphaAchilles]

Yeah it wasn’t “evolved.”

[@bouvardc.2334]

Lady calling dragon fly remarkable but I do t see them super cruise at Mach 1.3, multi radar lock 4 bandits and launch fox 3 missiles at each target and pull a 9 g turn away to burn out at Mach 2 splashing 4 bandits. F22 is better.