Scientists Discuss Music and the Origins of Language

[@StarTalk]

If early humans were jamming before they could talk, what do you think their first hit song would’ve been about?

[@jackwhitbread4583]

Trying to survive living alongside big predators for sure!! I only clicked because I saw Neandertals on the thumbnail, I see anything about Neandertals I click. I find the vast culture they had so fascinating and cool.

[@odysseus8944]

Hunter ft. Gatherer - The Stone

[@scribbler60]

Probably the biggest concern would be access to food, so I imagine the first "songs" were imitations of animal sounds in hopes of luring prey. I suppose - and this is pure guesswork, I have no evidence for this - hunting stories told around campfires incorporated these sounds.

[@ztublackstaff]

Amazing thought, “Bang the rocks together”. This first big hit. :)

[@mw9297]

Ooga booga

[@AttentionDeficitHobbyDisorder]

When my wife was pregnant with our children, I would sing to them, one song in particular. When our second daughter was born, at some point that day she started crying, and was inconsolable. Not my wife, nor the nurses could calm her, but when I sang our song, she instantly stopped crying, and just looked at me, watching calmly for the duration of the song. One of the most amazing and moving moments of my life.

[@End0morphin]

Even if it was an advertising jingle …….precious

[@dulciehardy5497]

Yeses, my youngest recognized a Bach snd a Sting song from when used to listen to a soundtrack and talked to her when I was pregnant with her. To this day those songs are coming to her. She had immediate voice recognition as well too,it was so beautiful. She waa crying coming out of tummy and I called her name across the room while they were cleaning her uo,and she instantly stopped, waa so awing, ❤

[@dustyntonks7388]

My son is now almost 19 and still loves Eminems Bonnie and Clyde

[@helenamcginty4920]

I was travelling and living in Spanish countryside for the 1st 5 months of my pregnancy. Quiet. No elrctricity back in Francos early 1970s country areas. No piped water either in the villages. Perhaps that's why my son likes quiet........or heavy metal ?

[@kyanothesacredfoo222]

Look at Elvis and his song "look like an angel" he says "you look like like an angel, but I'm not blind , you're the devil in disguise". I feel they hide in our own music itself that's why there's good and bad music we're hearing more than ever in the 90's and afterwards

[@russellandrewbennett7849]

Chuck is the man. Can make a room full of people laugh, not take himself seriously, but genuinely know his stuff and ask fascinating questions. Tons of love for Chuck ❤

[@ibexmesa6585]

Chuck is the best! So funny. Just a perfect duo! Love it

[@rafaelcorrea1822]

36:23 Simply one of the most genuine laughts I've heard for a while, great joke!

[@MistSoalar]

22:42 He's fkn genius

[@siyabongampengu2451]

And that takes a tremendous amount of intelligence, especially given the topics of conversation.

[@youreignorantchild]

Chuck is truly a treasure

[@iamovementme1048]

"One good thing about music, is when it hits, you feel no pain" - Bob Marley and the Wailers

[@davidwilkie9551]

Excellent Teaching Observations of the Holographic Principle Singularity-point positioning-transportation in unity-connection. The feeling of harmony is infinitely distributed, a "Mathemagical Measurement Problem?"

[@MrBoredcertified]

Came here for this ❤

[@kaseybutternut]

@@davidwilkie9551 "There's a natural mystic flowing through the air. If you listen carefully now you will hear" - Bob Marley again. Mathemagical indeed. lol.

[@Danny01921]

"if you stand in front of a loud speaker it hurts your ears" me

[@classicalperformances8777]

but when Great music hits you, it hurts a lot, same as truth, same as all things worth while.

[@erink3289]

19:09 when I was pregnant and in the throes of morning sickness, my toddler was obsessed with a particular radio song and insisted we listen to it all the time. Years later, the song came on, and I was immediately very nauseated. I thought I must have eaten something bad and gotten food poisoning. I was sitting there trying to figure out what food was the culprit, bemoaning my predicament, when the song ended, a new song started playing, and the nausea completely disappeared. Then I realized what had happened. It was wild!

[@user-sw4qd2up2s]

What song??¿

[@SamClemens-n9q]

@@user-sw4qd2up2sMariah Carey-All I want for Xmas is you

[@ManishChoudhary-x9t]

This reminds me so much of my grandfather. He used to sing slokas from the Vedas. For those who may not know, the Vedas are ancient scriptures that were passed down through generations via an intricate oral tradition. This method of transmission focused on preserving every detail-pronunciation, tone, and rhythm-making it an incredibly precise and sacred practice. Vedas are supposed to be 3,500 years old.

[@jackoboyle2833]

I believe they are even more ancient. That's a wonderful part of your culture. You are fortunate to have such a blessed memory! ❤️

[@katgsh]

The Vedas are well over 10,000-30,000 years old.

[@saeedTHEgreat]

This was one of the best scientific conversations I've ever heard on this channel. Dr. Tyson please bring Daniel Levitin back to the show more often. thanks!

[@bjdefilippo447]

Agreed. Went to grad school with Dan. He's the real deal. He's been looking at these interesting connections for decades, with impressive insights.

[@markmanmanmark9975]

Jonathan Kleck KZbin 😮

[@jackoboyle2833]

I feel this way also. This has just become my favorite episode of Startalk. I am going to begin research on Mr. Levitin. Fascinating and thought provoking. Thanks!

[@Mehrunzebub]

Man, I didn't want this episode to end. It was fascinating.

[@FuKuntt]

That reminds me of life, now that I'm old.

[@turbofreddy]

Just started reading his book. Promising!

[@jonjohnsonreads8292]

@@turbofreddythis is the answer The books are even better than the pod

[@kaydeleshropshire724]

I am loving this episode. My grandmother is 93 and has been taken down by Alzheimer’s like so many. Just like is being talked about here, she can still play the piano almost perfectly and sing. She still leads the hymns at church even though she doesn’t really know she is at church. She hears the hymn number, looks it up and starts singing and she is spot on. But just like was mentioned about Glen Campbell, she sometimes sings the last verse twice because she forgets we just sang it. (No one minds) Also: I have adhd and have a terrible time remembering simple things. Like where I sat my keys or purse A hack I learned a long time ago is if I sang a ridiculous line while placing them down I don’t forget. It’s like I may not remember where I put my keys but I remember where I was when I sang “Mary Had a Little Lamb”. That hack has made my life absolutely better. And now it seems I know why that works. Thank you Dr, Dr, and Lord for another excellent delivery and I already have my tickets for when you come to Knoxville :) see you soon!!

[@CheeseWyrm]

Yes. Music is a powerful mnemonic tool.

[@badcornflakes6374]

I left my keys on counter counter counter. Left my keys on the counter counter counter oh yah! 🔑🎵🎶

[@davidwilkie9551]

The Universe is a harmony of sequential echoes superimposed in/on the Eternity-now Interval superposition instant. Mathematical Bounds to a Function that Physics decides, precisely not accurately, are axial-tangential orthogonality limits floating on Absolute Zero-infinity flat-space ground-state No-thing-defined beyond the e-Pi-i 1-0-infinity instantaneous Entanglement limit. Be Live Here Now is discovering re-evolution circularity quantization cause-effect of musical Instrumentation measures. (Here-now-forever)

[@sandradolores6960]

@@kaydeleshropshire724 Another good hack is giving your items their own ‘home’. My keys have a ‘home’, my purse has its ‘home’, my cell phone’s home is on the ledge, my sunglasses home is on the piano. My husband told me this & now All my items have a ‘home’. It works great & usually when I walk in the door, my kitchen radio is already turned on & tuned into one of my local publicly funded music stations where I live. The energy flow is there. I Hope this helps! Love & Peace to you from the 313🌈☮️

[@mikecannon3044]

I know that hack!!! And it's for the keys! Then I needed it for my wallet. 😅 It evolved into locating the list of the things I want to remember to do tomorrow morning. It's a "must have" in my ... wait ... where's my toolbox?!?! 🤔 😂👍✌️

[@rudelyinterrupted]

After suffering a brain aneurysm and coming out of a drug induced comma surgeons suggested to my family they bring in my guitar and lay it across me as I come to. Woke up, angry, didn't know anyone in the room and they laid my guitar across me, I felt it, played the E chord and the blood rushed to my head and I sat up quickly and my brain, left n right hemispheres connected and it jumped me back into consciousness very quickly..Everyone started crying and I was saying, it's a major chord why are you crying!! Within seconds I knew everyone in the room.. Amazing feeling I still recall it to some degree..

[@CassandraElkin]

"it's a major chord why are you crying?" - priceless!

[@user-sw4qd2up2s]

What a great music story. Music can be magical.

[@kellybishop7238]

Wow! So happy you recovered ❤❤

[@xic777]

dangggg

[@rudelyinterrupted]

@@kellybishop7238 thank you!

[@suesandlin-plaehn3565]

As a classically trained singer, I was delighted to hear that there are scientifically based explanations for many incidental findings between good health and music, especially classical music. Loved your program!

[@user-sw4qd2up2s]

When I feel upset certain classical or new age music helps me relax

[@MrFlottgote]

Chuck's spontaneous analogy to the waggle dance of bees is, truly, the most intelligent interjection I've heard on Star Talk so far. And that's saying something.

[@artmusic2]

🐝 bees' agree 🐝🐝

[@zzzzzz69]

​@@artmusic2 Bee Gees

[@lynnehenderson4140]

I saw the great trumpeter Doc Cheatham perform towards the end of his life; he had to be helped to the stage and sat on a stool, but when he took that trumpet in his hands, the years fell away and he tore it up!!! Music is amazingly powerful and wondrous!!!

[@BetjeWolff-v2s]

The same with couples in their nineties, stumbling to the dance floor and when the music starts, they rock&roll like its still 1959

[@A.I.Remixed]

So Dopamine doesn't create or cause pleasure, it communicates pleasure from the body to the brain, so we as the person can interpret what is going on. Wow. I never thought about it that way.

[@claudiaarjangi4914]

Without dopamine, you wouldn't get out of bed , or drink when you're thirsty etc. Hormones are chemical "messengers" running up & down, interacting with the chemistry of your body. And emotions are the "push" or "tap on the shoulder/ shove" to let you know & get you to want to do whatever that hormone messenger "said" was needed. ( eg- get out of bed, drink water, etc ) Dopamine is the messenger that notifies your brain of things that need to be or it deems should be, done, for your survival. 😁☮️🌏

[@claudiaarjangi4914]

@AJRemixed We wouldn't get out of bed , or drink when thirsty without dopamine. Things your brain wants you to keep doing the same of, it will give you "messages" & a "push" to want to do. ( Hormones are your body's chemical "messengers", and emotions are the "push" or "tap on your shoulder/shove" to do whatever the messages said is needed/wanted. ) They are the way that your brain has evolved to direct your body towards interactions ( like we do in "colder..warm... warmer... hotter" games ) for survival. Your dna doesn't remember "words" of what you should do, but has hormone "messengers" & emotions that interact with you in reaction to you interacting in your environment ( sounds, sights etc ) I do NOT in ANY way mean it is "designed" or preplanned directed. It obviously isn't. All chemical interactions (DNA etc) is chemicals "falling" into the nearest, only interaction that those chemicals CAN "fall" into, at that time/ place/ energy level. I mean that chemical interactions cascade, and the ones that "fall apart" or run out of "energy" to keep alive, don't pass on their dna, so get "forgotten" as a part of the whole picture. But the ones that survive do pass on their incremental changes of "leaning towards the light" or towards whatever is what they need. A body's brain doesn't actually "know" what is going to hurt it or help. All it can do/ does is "fall" "towards the light" or "fall" towards its nearest chemical interactions, if they have enough energy to continue interacting ( ALL the ones making wrong steps/running out of energy along the way just d*e, and end up being forgotten as part of the picture ) and all the things that continue to stay "alive" are remembered ( and seem to be why we have people saying there's a conscious "purpose" that made DNa etc to do what it does. It doesn't. It's chemical interacting. We just see the ones, like us, that didn't d*e, and frame a purpose from that survivorship bias.) 😁☮️🌏 Ps- please excuse my "it's not a god 🙄" rant. It's just cos it's annoying when people misunderstand or purposely ignore what is really there, to “feel better" about believing things that we know are objectively wrong ( when it's 2024, and we should be better than that by now )

[@jlewand]

Yes. Since the brain has no nerve endings, the body is the only "receiver" to communicate its "findings" or "perceptions".

[@JollyMosaic]

Yes .. Sahil adeem wasted probably

[@danielasteierer6135]

Dopamine is not about pleasure but the anticipation of pleasure Not happiness but pursuit of happiness (R Sapolsky)

[@michaelbarclaydetolly3477]

As I approach 70, having spent 65 years making music as a life-focus, I am so thankful for having continue along this path, but to be honest I have felt more and more disheartened as I've gone along by the effects of commercialism and shortened attention spans. Your conversation restores a sense of purpose in my instrumental music making (no "verbality")- you underscored music's hidden wealth of potential possibilities that ultimately mean much more. Thanks!

[@fretworks9692]

As much as I appreciate great lyrics, sometimes I feel that words diminish a song, since music itself captures what words can never express.

[@PianoNotion]

It’s never too late to learn a musical instrument. I am glad to see such seasoned scientists as you bringing this topic to light. I have been teaching piano for over 30 years, and I have many retirees starting to learn the piano at 60, 70 and 80 years old, and I always notice the benefits of music. There are certain individuals who improve their arthritis through the movements learned on the piano, such as scales and arpeggios, and music helps work the memory and stimulates the brain. Thank you!

[@reinelibre1880]

I am actually feeling depressed and find myself smiling listening to this interesting discussion. The chemistry between the hosts and guest, the jokes and honest opinions from everyone make this show so easy to listen and follow. Thank you for sharing the knowledge and helping my mood.

[@kaydeleshropshire724]

Hey! Hang in there friend. Hope it gets better for you

[@reinelibre1880]

Thank you for your kind words.

[@fretworks9692]

How are you doing now? Are you feeling better?

[@whatdamath]

I took Levitin's class back in the days when he just started teaching psychology and I still ponder about some of the stuff he taught us back then. It'd be nice to sit down and listen to his lecture one more time just to see what I missed in the last 2 decades

[@sinisamarovic]

Hi Anton, love your channel.

[@HarryNicNicholas]

good to see you here! wonderful person!

[@frogz]

hello wonderful person, thanks for all of the content!!

[@theanthropologist2446]

That's so cool!!

[@bradleyfitzik2447]

Hello wonderful person 👋

[@OV1805]

I am a passionate linguist. The origins of language is my favorite topic. Special thank you from me for this podcast.

[@timmurphy334]

I have come across a hypothesis surmising that mimicry of birdsong could be a progenitor of (human) language.

[@ItsBAndBees]

One of my favorite things to talk to people about is how intrinsically linked music, language, and math are all connected. I’ve always been good at the first two, and it wasn’t u til I better understood the connection between the 3 that I started to love mathematics as well.

[@timmurphy334]

@@ItsBAndBees It has been said that mathematics can be thought of as a universal language, being intrinsic-- not existing as a construct, created by humans.

[@medhadeb2892]

@@timmurphy334 Sir, when you tease people with hypotheses, please share the reference too. Now, I will go mad trying to find that in Google.

[@gregjordan5634]

Me too. The Divje flute is illustrated in my book along with my theory of using music for development of language. "Darwin's Darlings" kindle.

[@sandromartinez2417]

Those last words about depression, music and getting through, were beautiful

[@justintyme2451]

@ 50:40 --- "Rainy Day People" -- Gordon Lightfoot

[@pickthestickup]

Ever since I first read This Is Your Brain On Music, I've been fascinated by Daniel J Levitin's area of study, and even took a bunch of neuroscience coursework in college.

[@manolousi]

Great topic. This is a gem on KZbin. From personal experience I can say that my patients always remember the song they listened to before falling asleep for surgery. They are able to relax and create a powerful memory that never fades. They always choose the music. Great talk.

[@kaydeleshropshire724]

Also: as a person with chronic pain from autoimmune, I have found music can absolutely relieve my pain. I actually thought that it was because it pulled my focus away from the pain (Also adhd and have hyperfocus on things like my pain) This whole episode has been so cathartic. It’s nice to hear the science behind things that I have proved in my own life over and over again

[@brianschoner3350]

Fascinating stuff as always. I'm reminded of the brilliant bass player Victor Lemonte Wooten; in a clinic I attended, he said (paraphrased), "There are people who believe that music is a language, but the more I play and learn, the more I think that's wrong. I believe that language is a music."

[@artuainax8869]

Wow! This IS the MOST loaded interview I have ever been privileged to hear. Thank you. 👈👈

[@DSmicklas]

Every one of these 50+ minutes reinforced a lot of my feelings regarding the importance of music education

[@user-sw4qd2up2s]

Kiss that goodbye when Trump ends the Public Education System.

[@theanthropologist2446]

As a medical anthropologist with MS, I find this particular academic conversation beyond fascinating. I dare say I've found my new obsession. I want to get involved in this sort of work and research immediately. Thank you gentlemen.

[@drleesadr]

@@theanthropologist2446 me, too. I am beyond fascinated!

[@mybachhertzbaud3074]

I too have MS and have been using synthesizers and PC to keep my grey cells constantly rewiring.😁🎶🎹🎶Play On

[@kaydeleshropshire724]

@@theanthropologist2446 also have MS and have ADHD as well. I used to think that music relieved my pain because it shifted my focus. I have been seriously considering that the reason I experience such intense pain isn’t because my condition is so much worse than others, but because I hyperfocus on the pain, which causes me to “experience” it at a higher level than a neurotypical person might. I can have scans that matches someone else’s scans to a T, yet it seems that they are not nearly as impacted in their day to day life as I am. That started me thinking that if I control my adhd maybe my pain would be reduced So at age 49 I began the clinical journey to have my adhd properly diagnosed and charted so I could seek out treatment. I began Ritalin about 6 weeks ago. We are still titrating to full effect but I will tell you that it is already noticeable I have been a patient at a pain clinic for years. For idiopathic pain associated with autoimmune. Since about a week after starting the dose of Ritalin I could “feel” I noticed that the usage of my pain medication was about half what I usually take The following week we went up on Ritalin and I noticed that my pain medication usage went down again I am now taking 75% less than I have taken for years and I did that on my own. Without really thinking about it. Because I’m just going around and enjoying my day and not constantly thinking about how everything hurts and counting the minutes until my next dose.

[@clemente3]

What's MS?

[@kaydeleshropshire724]

@@clemente3 multiple sclerosis: It’s an autoimmune disease that impacts the brain and other various things. As example for me it causes muscle and joint pain, balance issues, and temporary blindness when I’m in a flare (lasts a few hours to a couple days) It causes brain fog also For others it can cause loss of mobility Because it depends on where the lesions form in the brain as to what is impacted.

[@1haitian1]

As an artist and science nerd, this had been my favorite one so far. I learned a lot from this one.

[@coryclarksounds]

Me too! This one hit me HARD

[@wowzee898]

Thanks,, I suspect there are others here as well. I have university studies in four domains music is where it all started.

[@patgauvingeek]

I feel that I learned something that I can actually apply to become happier and even healthier. One of the best episodes. It took me by surprise too.

[@KingMoneyTFM]

Facts

[@SteveJonesIndeed]

Time to put on some music!

[@patriciahuff5001]

This needs to be a longer episode or have a part two.

[@jool5941]

You can tell Neil doesn’t really care about it. He didn’t talk about his tweets once.

[@drleesadr]

Yes, please! This could be a whole semester course!!!

[@AlGaragui]

x1000

[@kielabadeaux3135]

I've spent my first year with StarTalk only searching for the "space" episodes; only recently have I run out of those, but because I love Chuck & Neil so much, I've 'caved' & started watching other episodes. & I have to say that I'm ecstatically surprised to be learning so many new things & enjoying it so much. I'm so grateful for this channel & these gentlemen ❤️

[@ironmurs6903]

At 19:30 when they discussed how music brings us back to a particular time, I’ve always associated Unchained Melody (Righteous Brothers) with my late father. This song came on the radio when I was on the way to his funeral when I was 12yrs old. To this day, that song brings me comfort, joy, and a memory of my father, even though it’s a beautiful love song.

[@olivermiles3552]

Music has saved my life on many occasions. Listening to music I love always gets me upbeat and as you were saying at the end when I was depressed, the sad songs kept me afloat. I have recently joined a band, I the singer and I really enjoy the joy it brings me to perform and feel the joy from my audience. I can listen to complexe piece of classical music all in my head and hear every note of every instrument, it's really embedded in me. Thank you for this talk, most interesting. :)

[@ufukkeles6229]

"But the sun calls them Endegenous Spots" briliant man just briliant

[@ppike__]

That was perfection😂

[@sho_k1]

idontgetitcanyoupleaseexplainit?

[@isCarsonMiller]

@@sho_k1from the sun’s perspective the spots are originating internally the way our brain chemicals might, so Chuck is simultaneously making a joke that shows he understands the premise and adding levity to a friendly disagreement between the other 2. So good.

[@thanos879]

Music CARRIED my early education. The ABC's and multiplication songs for each number. Shout out to that teacher. It's still how I do multiplication in my head as an adult 😂

[@key_bounce]

Multiplication songs? School House Rock

[@user-sw4qd2up2s]

I loved The Itsy Bitsy Spider song.

[@TheJemmaGrl]

I could listen to these three talk for hours and hours. Fascinating stuff and love how they play off each other.

[@JamesSims]

I have not commented on how much this site means to me. You guys are wonderful! This particular presentation means so much to me. I am the son of a music therapist and I also am a music therapist. I know the power of music. I am a performer and a singer songwriter and an instrumental list. I know these things at the core of my being. All of this information is, at once, healing and informative and exciting and the truth. Thank you!

[@The_Ubatron]

Thus had been not just a delight but a deeply profound conversation, carefully draped in light-hearted comedy. So many kernals of inspiration for further processing... Many thanks ❤🙏🏼

[@HealingFrequenciesMusic-HFM]

You can feel music, too. Evelyn Glennie (deaf percussionist) says musical pitches resonate in various places within her body. That's how she knows what notes are being played. She performs barefoot to feel pitch and rhythm through the floor, too. This was a good discussion. Thank you!

[@user-sw4qd2up2s]

Beethoven was deaf. Ponder that....

[@Desaved]

WOW! This explains so much in my life! I can't believe I almost didn't watch this! Music is also the key to healing me whenever I'm depressed.

[@user-sw4qd2up2s]

Me too, along with good weed.

[@ThePgkessler]

Both of you guys (Neil and Chuck) : thank you and your guests and for the fun fascinating discussions describing scientific inquiry. We live in an exciting age and you guys are on the cutting edge ‘conveying what’s happening’ to the general public. Thanks for your communication my brother’s, I’m grateful!

[@TheTaiylorWallace]

Ive always said music is the most human thing in the world. Hearing a room of people singing together is so joyful and awe-inspiring. It doesnt surprise me that our ability to sing predates language. Also, hearing that mind wandering is natural and in fact the default, is actually very heartening.

[@philbroscovak7024]

My eldest child spent his in-utereo time hearing the theme song to Star Trek TNG at the same time every night. For two years after birth every time that song came on TV he would turn and walk towards it like the Eloy hearing the dinner bell.

[@crispian67]

That's quite the picture you painted there. Cheers! Love the Star Trek/Time Machine references! Also, for some odd reason was sensing some Poltergeist vibes. 🤣

[@johnrichardson8606]

Do you mean the Eloi from H.G. Wells' 'The Time Machine'?

[@user-sw4qd2up2s]

Make it so.

[@BarrettHulen]

He walked immediately after birth? Cool. Jk. My mom played and sang Beatles songs to me, and those particular 1 or 2 songs just feel "right" in a way nothing else does (even other Beatles songs ;)

[@left_handed_jedi]

Back in the 90s I went on vacation to Ireland. On the flight over from the Midwest, I sat next to a gentleman whose grandfather self publishhed a book about Oghm, the marks on many standing stones scattered across Europe, were in fact songs and the runes were specific notes. I thought you might find it interesting.

[@JariDawnchild]

I'm interested. Music and ancient stuff? Count me in. Where can I find a copy of this book?

[@CheeseWyrm]

Aye, Oghm (or *Ogham* ) originated amongst the earliest Gaelic societies of Ireland. It was a treasured, sacred tradition carried & passed down amongst the Druids (& later, Bards)

[@maryannegunter115]

This is my favorite Legal AF, two of my favorites; Dina and Popok. Thank you for telling us the real news, you all are such hard working at keeping us informed properly. MTN is the best place for news. You all are great!😊

[@drfoxcourt]

IMHO this was a better than usual show. I know all too well what DLevitin was talking about in using music with a sympathetic mood to deal with depression. I have struggled all my life with monthlong throws of depression, and music eases and eventually help me out of a depression. I hope you will do more music related shows. Thank you chuck and thank you Neil.

[@CheeseWyrm]

This discussion recalled for me the value of 'mind-wandering' in related concepts: 1. "A bored mind is a creative mind". It has been found that allowing (& appreciating the value thereof) phases of boredom allows the mind-wandering involved in creativity and problem-solving. Therefore, day-dreaming should *not* be off-handedly admonished, but rather diverted into productive pursuits; 2. Think of those times when you forget a word/name/concept that you were about to express ... "Oh, it's on the tip of my tongue! I just can't grasp it!". A common advice that often helps here is "Stop focussing on it, and it will come to you"; 3. *Ear-worms* Songs that you frustratingly can't get out of your head! (This is why advertising jingles are a thing). I have heard that you can resolve this by either listening & singing along to another song you like, OR singing the song to its completion (even just in your imagination). I'm not so sure these methods work that often for me...

[@christopherlawley1842]

Ear worms: I get rid of them by singing something else.

[@dannybodros5180]

You can clearly see that Chuck was really captivated by this subject.

[@AlGaragui]

Chuck really appreciates people with knowledge.

[@KYRO-rm2pu]

Me 3 😂

[@troyvasco1938]

Alot of "oh wow". And alot of good questions

[@I_report_scammers_spammers]

​@AlGaragui don't let Chuck fool you...he plays a big goofball, but the dude is SMART.

[@busterhikney6936]

Bone Flute

[@ShawnRitch]

I am amazed at how articulate and well mannered, Daniel Levitin is. A true master on the art of conversation and communication.

[@CheeseWyrm]

Yes, I would be extremely happy, & intellectually stimulated to converse with Prof Levitin. It would be a privilege to listen to his lectures. The meeting of neuroscience, behavioural psychology, anthropology and music is a rewarding field to explore

[@ShawnRitch]

@@CheeseWyrm I agree

[@user-sw4qd2up2s]

My mom had alshiemers and even when she was far gone mentally she still responded to songs she loved and knew. You could visibly see her demeanor change and ger eyes would light up. She remembered. Besides food, music was her only real pleasure at that point. We played her CDs for her all the time. Music is so powerful.

[@robertgreen9150]

Dr. Tyson, I Do So remember how soothing "keep looking up" calms sooths and relaxes me!!😊❤

[@TheChuy777]

Top tier podcast here. Need him back again .

[@ebrock1972]

The concept of using music to get out of your head I got a personal antidote.. in the army always struggled qualifying at the range I did but just okay. Then one qualifying I decided to try to get my head out of it and just let muscle memory work. I started to sing a song in my head and I jumped from barely qualifying to shooting expert.. I wasn't overthinking it...

[@LizardandBuns]

Astrophysicist Neil DeGrasse Tyson looking confused as he says "isn't that the same thing?" is a reminder that we can be brilliant and still we can never know everything.

[@DC5Brandon]

This was only moment watching Star Talk, which I knew exactly what the expert was explaining, while Neil didn't

[@darthmoo7]

To be fair I think Neil deliberately acts confused on some occasions as a way of getting the expert to explain a more complex idea to the podcast audience, rather than for himself.

[@TehKhronicler]

Great episode and in my opinion one of the most fascinating guests you've had. I appreciate that you 'branched out' into this topic despite it not being overtly related to the Cosmos, but as we know, the Cosmos is fractally structured across scale, and the brain may yet hold many secrets of the Cosmos with in its structure

[@janhet001]

I love all of Star Talk topics and guests. This one with Daniel Levitin was particularly interesting. Great show!

[@coolbreeze5683]

I love this discussion. It makes you think about the music you have consumed throughout your life and the songs you remember the lyrics to decades after hearing it. It also makes you want to listen to more positive and uplifting music. All of the music about heartbreak and depression I listened to as a teen in the 90s probably didn't do good things for shaping my growing brain and mental well-being at the time 😬

[@user-sw4qd2up2s]

I disagree. Sad songs serve a purpose. So does teenage angst music. We grow and develop with music, and every person and every generation is unique. I don't generally feel drawn to happy music when I'm sad, and vice versa. Music tends to match my mood, and that can be comforting, or help us cry through the pain. Life isn't happy all the time, so why should music be?

[@coolbreeze5683]

@user-sw4qd2up2s sure they can serve a purpose but bathing yourself constantly in sad or depressing music is not good. It's important to have a balance. Growing up during the time of grunge, there wasn't too much of a balance since angst ridden and depressing music was everywhere. I listen to all types of music now but make sure I listen to things with more uplifting, positive and creative lyrics. When words are put to music, they're basically like a spell you're subconsciously casting on your mind when listening to it. If you're bathing in sad music constantly, especially for young people who are susceptible to messaging, it can be detrimental.

[@ace_life7079]

I really enjoy all the various topics you address at Star Talk.This is one of my favorites. Please keep producing quality content so that we may enjoy it for the rest of our lives❤

[@Micksmix256]

37:45 . As a 28 year old man who was diagnosed with MS this year I appreciate the conversation.

[@jonnylumberjack6223]

Sorry man, that blows. I wish you well in your coming battle and hope that an effective treatment can be found in the near future.

[@myersred8]

I love how Levitin tosses around references to Proust's "Madeleine experience" and N of 1 presuming we are all educated people.

[@daveking-sandbox9263]

With 50% less interruptions for the silly jokes this could've been a great interview, Daniel would've had a chance to explain much in more detail about the research he is doing on the brain. but, after watching many of your episodes, I realize when you are doing an interview on the subject that you are not so proficient in, then the nervousness and jokes seem to take over. Great show though, keep up the good work, I'm looking forward to the next episodes!

[@Anway-NeverGiveUp]

Music is the language, music is the tradition, music is the culture, music is the way of living, music is the color & music is the means of communication to exhibit every aspects of universe, as a product of nature.( which can be materialistic or idealistic).

[@waynemcdaniel7405]

Sound and vibration are the next frontier of medicine & well being.

[@neclark08]

...let's Hope that's unlikely, @waynemcdaniel7405... Because that would mean Humanity had Regressed by some ~9,850 years -- to a time when "Traditional Healing" often consisted of trying to chase-away Evil Spirits with rhythmically chanted incantations/prayerful singing -- perhaps accompanied by rattles or tinlking amulets -- and the patient being urged to drink a foul-tasting vegetal concoction.

[@tinajones7293]

The Egyptians used vibration for healing

[@greaterbharat4175]

​@@tinajones7293may be but history of music and healing share more bigger history in indian culture than any part of the world We have atharvaveda ( which is full of healing sounds) Some healing sounds like aum ,or hrim ,ramm , etc

[@funghouls5498]

@38:00 Regarding stuttering, there was a fascinating researcher that I heard on CBC Radio One, Canada, who proved that children born predominantly left-handed, but forced to become right handed by their parents had significant stuttering thereafter until they managed to cope either through sports or singing, which helped overcome the stuttering.

[@theanthropologist2446]

Really? How fascinating. See, I even learn in the comments. Thanks

[@CheeseWyrm]

There is an amazingly enlightening TedTalk (TedXSydney) by Australian celebrity songstress *Megan Washington* , in which she discusses her experience with lifelong stuttering, and how she learned that singing her words allowed her to avoid the stutter. I have since learned that a significant number or performers (singers, actors, voice actors) have a stutter, and their art has given them the means to overcome/cope with it

[@arbreshaalushaj]

Nice… Hand/writing lessens the brains overload - that’s why a lot of people doodle or why fidgeting can help focus. Lots of science on this, really cool…

[@SuzA8110]

I remember the country singer Mel Tillis who stuttered. He didn't overcome the stuttering but was a very popular singer from the '50s to the '90's.

[@LiGeBosTic92]

@12:04 the slight smile on Tyson showed his truest approval of his cohost and proof that he can pull out the best in anybody. No discount to King Chuck he is intelligent in his own right as a master comedian but that was a subtle and brilliant insight that he appreciated!!!! Thank you guys!!! As a linguist and musician myself I often ponder the creation of words and language!

[@ChrisHollobaugh]

I love how Neil is holding Dr. Levitin accountable to present his findings scientifically and to speak from a place of certainty based on evidence. We need more of this in the world...

[@crystalquartez9773]

Very cool episode! On underwater sound; Every complex sound (basically anything that isnt a sine wave beep) has many frequency components, the one we recognize as the note is the fundamental pitch. Underwater you would loose some of the upper harmonic components of that complex sound, but the fundamental pitch would stay the same. Different mediums filter the sound.

[@LordRuric]

Happy Birthday Neil Degrasse Tyson.

[@michaelccopelandsr7120]

Haven't you heard? People born in October don't have birthdays. They have birthmonths!

[@SunPresager]

​@@michaelccopelandsr7120 why? How?

[@michaelccopelandsr7120]

@@SunPresager Why? Because October babies celebrate the whole month, not just one day. How? That's just the way it is. As it should be. ;-P

[@mdragon99]

Best episode ever!! First time I've followed along the whole way, don't understand it but I listened to it, ironically while practicing the piano...

[@karendavidson4897]

Agree 💯 I so enjoyed this interview, fascinating, what an interesting subject. Please get this guest back. Neil and chuck well done thank you, once again great job to you both.

[@peglegjim57]

The entire Startalk team is fantastic. You have the best guests, EVER. Chuck, I’m TOTALLY envious of your job… 😎

[@HOLLYWOODUNAPOLOGETIC]

"Early rock music..." DAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! This has been one of my favorite episodes. Gentlemen, thank you.

[@Safetysealed]

As a metalhead who has medication resistant clinical depression, I've always struggled to explain to family and friends how and why loud angry music helps when I'm in a low state. Thankfully now I can point them to this video and they can learn from Dr Levitin who's a lot more educated and eloquent than I am.

[@WickedIndigo]

Metal is the ultimate catharsis. Im 100% on your side with this, it’s incredible how much some heavily distorted guitars, blast beat drums, and harsh vocals can soothe the mind. Now I’m super curious, what are some of your favorite metal bands?? Perhaps you’ll have some I haven’t heard and I’m always looking for new music🤘 wishing you the best my friend🙏

[@metallinguist]

I hear you on metal! 🤘

[@CassandraElkin]

People so often say that listening to "negative"music affects you in a negative way, and I absolutely do NOT agree. David Drayman of Disturbed said something I won't try to quote because that concert was ten or fifteen years ago, but basically he said music is a great way to take all the negative stuff that comes into our lives/minds and let it out in a positive/cathartic way.

[@supernova1163]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON

[@AlGaragui]

Estas son las mañanitas que te canta la ciencia hoy, Neil deGrasse Tyson querido, ¡que el universo te dé su voz! El cosmos celebra contigo, tus ideas brillan sin par, que sigas inspirando mentes, con tu luz, ¡nos haces soñar! ¡Feliz cumpleaños! 🎉 -Al.

[@DarqIce]

@18:15 the pitch stays the same but different frequency bands have their volume changed. Treble is reduced, bass is augmented. But the sound isn't shifted up or down in pitch. Get with the program, Neil :D

[@dixiecup6668]

My daughter is a gestalt language processor. She's very musical. Most glps are. Before she understood single words, she was singing long utterances. These songs usually had a different meaning for her than the actual words. It wouldn't surprise me if our ancestors developed language through music.

[@yoshthefireguy]

Michael Taut was the music director when I was at CSU! So great to hear his work with music therapy is helping with Parkinson's.

[@CheeseWyrm]

I would be extremely happy, & intellectually stimulated to converse with the immensely erudite & articulate Prof Levitin. It would be a privilege to be present in his lectures. The meeting of neuroscience, behavioural psychology, anthropology and music is a rewarding field to explore. This is one of the most stimulating episodes of Star Talk. Thanks guys, & get well Gary! :)

[@probably-nobody]

I was 75% through this before I realized I’ve read one of his books, This is Your Brain on Music, twice. I guess I should pay attention to names more. 😬

[@erink3289]

22:28 I wonder if this is how Beethoven was able to compose so many masterpieces after he became deaf

[@daveking-sandbox9263]

I've been composing music for 50 years, and it is done totally in the brain, I hear everything before I write it down. This misconception comes because of amateur musicians that have to rehearse for days in a rehearsal room to get one song together. If you know a bit about music theory you can write the entire song yourself in your head, you don't have to hear anything from the outside. Of course Beethoven heard music all his life so he could imagine it. If Beethoven was born deaf he would've never become a composer. Get it?

[@petermartin4925]

I have MES (musical ear syndrome) which seems to be a special form of tinnitus, with the difference that instead of white noise or a continuous note, I hear distant music (mainly male voices in a varying playlist) , when there is no actual corresponding external stimulation as input. Most of the songs are familiar, but some seem to be totally unfamiliar.

[@CDBIII]

Only thing I feel they could have touched on is Frisson that is experienced by some during certain songs/crescendos and the like. I get MAJOR mood boosts from it. Highs that last (with a WONDERFUL comedown) for up to the entire day even. I thought it would head that way when Neil spoke of the “wiggly feeling” he would get sometimes.

[@Phil-oz3xd]

Spectacular session with Dr. Levitin. Amazing.

[@dmarie2231]

Music does heal. It helped heal 20 years of chronic illnesses I had.

[@teresamcmullan6549]

Can you tell me how? I need it.

[@dmarie2231]

@@teresamcmullan6549 listening to and watching ASMR and binaural beats will help a lot with calming your nervous system and releasing feel good chemicals when you don't feel good or are in pain. I also did the Gupta Program which is the world's first official brain retraining program. I used it for different chronic illnesses and that helped tremendously. You should look into it. There are scientific studies about the programs effectiveness on different chronic illnesses, anxiety, pain and so on. I never thought I'd get my health back. It's amazing 😃

[@myoura]

what song helped the most?

[@dmarie2231]

@@teresamcmullan6549 I listened to binaural beats and really got into sound frequency and healing.

[@dmarie2231]

@@myoura I started with binaural beats. They sync your brain waives and it's really good for calming the nervous system and stimulating the vagus nerve.

[@story_teller_beats]

Maybe this is why we all like music, it's our actual mother language

[@JohanHerdiPutra]

Some people in my country said that it is haram. Poor them hahaha

[@TimLapare]

Some people dont like music

[@story_teller_beats]

@@JohanHerdiPutra only religious music is allowed, like islam gospel

[@story_teller_beats]

@@TimLapare i don't call them people, come on now lol

[@TimLapare]

@@story_teller_beatseach to their own. Not everything is loved by everyone. It might be weird because a majority of people love music but it happens.

[@ToddVanFleet-p4s]

So cool this conversation. Great chemistry between these 3. Long time performing drummer🎉❤

[@MelEllington]

All watch all of the Startalk videos and this is one of the very best. Most of these videos are rehashing the same information but this video presents so much interesting information that I heretofore was unaware of. Truly awesome.

[@lyn2569akaLynette]

Music is audible math. Loved this episode. All 3 of you were informative and funny, thanks!

[@paulsutton5713]

To add to the anecdotes on Tourettes, I've worked for many years professionally as a singer and know 3 cases where their ticks stop when they sing.

[@treble8921]

I know a guy with a terrible stutter that sings karaoke just fine. I mean he's an awful singer but he doesn't stutter at all. Love that guy 😂

[@nhinged]

Huge change am not sure yet its just dopamine boosting to counter anxiety Bet they could just chant some ah and oo vowels and do similar Or swearing/ ticks would do aka what happens Might turn this into a paper

[@paulsutton5713]

@@nhinged worth looking into to rule that out but as someone with no neuroscience background 😅 I feel like it's inhibiting that function. Like a physio told me to hum as she was stretching me to kind of distract the sciatic nerve.

[@nhinged]

@@paulsutton5713 what we call boredom is the brain naturally trying to stay at some dopamine level So it's lowered by anxiety which is said to get turrettues alot worse It can Produce the higher dopamine lanaguge sounds (ah and oh) contained in most swear words Generate high audio visual concepts Make high energy sounds Trigger movements as the movement area is closely linked to the pleasure area Imo it explains it simply But yeah might make a paper

[@paulsutton5713]

@@nhinged super interesting! Thanks 😊

[@jking3402]

Always great...but this is one of the best interviews in years.

[@zenmart]

I speak Spanish, French, and I have studied Latin. I’m currently learning Russian. One thing that has helped me a lot is listening to Russian music. Learning the lyrics to songs has helped me so much in my Russian studies. I love when I get an ear-worm in Russian. I know I’m learning the lyrics ergo the language. 😊

[@katlynngriffin7931]

I love this episode so much as someone who loves music sooo much. I learned why I listen to music so much as someone who deals with pain and I learned why I listened to completely different music when I was going through depression. I would absolutely love another episode on this topic or recommendations on how to learn more 😊

[@Thomas_H_Sears]

I'm fixing a hole where the rain gets in And stops my mind from wandering Where it will go I'm filling the cracks that ran through the door And kept my mind from wandering Where it will go

[@dummie4guitars]

No, no, no... Everybody's got something to hide...

[@AlGaragui]

It’s always a pleasure to engage in such thought-provoking discussions. The exploration of the origins of human communication as language intertwined with primitive music reveals a fascinating interplay of ideas. The harmonious sounds that emerge from these early forms of expression suggest a complex layering of consciousness, reflecting not only our innate desire to connect but also the profound impact of rhythm and melody on our social interactions. I look forward to further unraveling these connections.

[@drleesadr]

Yes, thank you from a PhD in communication who once studied the genetic/social role in masculine/feminine nonverbal behavior. Also, spent 20+ yrs documenting indigenous petroglyphs/petrographs. Just thank you ❤

[@AlGaragui]

@@drleesadr Lovely. Ah, a PhD in communication! How wonderful! I must say, meanwhile this humble and quietly decoders of mysteries of human interaction do that wonderful discoveries, the rest of us are still trying to find the ‘mute’ button on Zoom. Impressive. Thank you for sharing knowledge with us mere mortals! ❤

[@namret12]

Get well quickly, Gary❤ Fascinating about the whole music thing…Wow.

[@alphacenturi8038]

This is a special song for you guys, you de Grasse Tyson, the comedian Jack and your Host. The song: Triumph generation - Ukamilifu wa Mungu (official video). Music knows no boundary. From my point of view it has to be (music) the first mode of comunication between the human species on planet earth and any other form of life there can be in the universe.

[@QMorrissey]

Neil when I was a boy it was a very dysfunctional household. Abused I listened to music to rest my mind and body. Especially, classical. I spoke of this with counselors, priests, doctors, psychiatrists, etc

[@freakshowlucifer616]

This is my perseption. Like other creatures, we had sounds to describe danger before we could name them. Although having a sound for an object or "thing" could be considare initation of lenguage. That comes when tribes agree and the sound of the symbology to describe our soroundings.

[@d4rk0v3]

I want to know what's going on with my brain because I can listen to music in my brain at will. Not the way you're thinking. It isn't music *in my mind* it is music that I can hear, audibly, as if it were being played out loud on speakers, or more so like headphones. If I listen to a song enough to memorize it, I can replay it any time I want. I can dissect it, isolate different instruments, and change the tempo.

[@garretthawkinson]

For me it is like a multi-tracking system that i can even make new music with (i also forget it almost immediately)

[@CheeseWyrm]

@@garretthawkinson I suggest that this is a 'super power' for you folks. I envy your ability. We are *ALL* amazingly individually-talented minds :)

[@kaydeleshropshire724]

By chance do you have adhd? I do and I have this ability also. In fact music is my preferred love language. I always attributed my musical abilities and the way that I consume music to my adhd.

[@garretthawkinson]

@@kaydeleshropshire724 i actually do!

[@Dementia69]

Math is a universal language,why not music.

[@SpacemanXC]

Music _is_ math though.

[@Anway-NeverGiveUp]

Music is the language, music is the tradition, music is the culture, music is the way of living, music is the color & music is the means of communication to exhibit every aspects of universe, as a product of nature ( which can be materialistic or idealistic) but mathematics is a scientific & materialistic product of human consciousness, as a language of physics, to solve every complexities of universe.

[@rickjames6867]

There is math involved in music. Speed tempo number of BPM patterns repetitions etc. How we arrange them and what lyrics (if any) we choose what tempo we choose are all the personal creative touches. It's a fine mixture of art and math but math and art are basically everything if you are a numbers and analytics freak with an open mind like myself.

[@loudrimshot]

Music requires hearing. As long as someone can hear they can relate to music. However, math does not require any of the senses.

[@SpacemanXC]

@@rickjames6867 Tone tones are all frequencies which are governed by math as well.

[@animusfault]

Just learned about Dr. Levitin from this episode, but I'm an instant fan! Please have him on again.

[@Zelkathis]

Depression demands sad or angry music because it makes you feel seen, 100%!!! Thank you for this amazing episode!