Lithium From Li-ion Batteries - Part 2

A continuation of our project involving the extraction of lithium from lithium-ion batteries.
In the last video, we extracted the electrode materials from around 160 Wh of Li-ion batteries, and heated it all up in a furnace to break everything down. In this video, we dissolve the resulting mass in sulfuric acid, and work on precipitating the undesired metals from solution. Things don't quite go as planned, but we were at least able to extract around 20 g of manganese dioxide from the mixture.
Overall, this wasn't successful in getting any of the lithium, so there'll probably be a third video on this project some day. Either way, we'll definitely be extracting the cobalt and nickel from the precipitate we made at some point in the future.

[@PlutoniumJesus]

Your persistence is admirable, I would totally have given up after the glassware disaster! Thanks for showing us what didn't work and always educating rather than entertaining.

[@nattsurfaren]

To your question: Was it worth it? I think it was worth it because you learn a lot from failures. This is how you become a professional. Not just that but imagine now how people following your channel can give you good feedback to further strengthen your knowledge.

[@bigjay875]

Well said good sir

[@ElectraFlarefire]

Thank you for making this video even though the results weren't what any of us wanted to see.. And man could we feel your pain at the end! Hopefully the next project will be much more successful and one day in the distant future when the scars and pain of this one has healed, some good can come from it and maybe the hidden lithium will be found.

[@RedDogForge]

it may have been driving you insane but ill tell ya this, its convinced me to subscribe. thank you for sharing your failures, theyre just as important as successes, the road of success is paved with failure.

[@AdricM]

Failure is where the learning happens.. i enjoyed this as much as any of the successful videos.

[@charleschidsey2831]

The samurai is unconcerned with the destination, he is only concerned with the path. Improvise, adapt, overcome. I think that you Harry, are an excellent example of this USMC ethic. Strong work my friend. Always look forward to your posts.

[@sofihamdanulhuda4149]

Your video about sodium chlorate really helping me to make a simple flare.

[@jeanbastien8690]

Je te félicite pour toutes des démarches. Les efforts égale pas toujours les résultats escomptés. Sa te permet d’accumuler beaucoup d’expérience

[@petevenuti7355]

classic, the moping of the desk 🤪. (Better known as a bench extraction) To quote my son the last time I cought fire "do it again, the camera wasn't ready"

[@chemicalmaster3267]

+Scrap Science There´s a way that should probably give much better results: you could try the precipitate most of the metal ions as insoluble sulfides leaving the lithium behind in the leftover solution. I recommend doing the metal sulfides precipitation with the solution constantly at a neutral or mildly alkaline Ph. Maybe sodium or potassium polysulfides could do the trick (they can be made by heating sodium or potassium hydroxide solution and dissolving sulfur in it).

[@chemicalmaster3267]

Also according to some research I´ve done, lithium could precipitated as lithium silicate since I´ve red that it´s apparently insoluble in water.

[@user255]

Yep, that is how things go sometimes. So familiar.

[@bravekhan4470]

Bro you deserve to be somewhere your worth is. You are not only genius but a hard worker as well. Thank u for the videos. Wish u to have a happy and successful life.

[@angelusmendez5084]

Awesome! 👏 Never give up, as they say 🎉

[@dkjawahar-techexpt671]

Hat's off to you for your hard determination to carry out the experiment in extracting Lithium salt. Thanks from Jawaharlal Bharath India 🙏

[@SonnetGomes]

Wow. It's insane how much amount of effort that went to try and recover this precious metal. I wish there were more easier way than this. It sure was one heck of a learning experience...at least for me. Thank you so much for sharing. I am subscribing to your channel.

[@bonbonpony]

Plot twist: The manufacturer lied to us all and there was no lithium to begin with :J

[@Homa-ng9wu]

Really informative, I really like the way, you passionately explain the whole process, It motivated me to follow and see the results even if the results aren’t that satisfying but it worth to save the experience. Thanks🙏🏻

[@fredkester6130]

We have to do some more chemistry and who could be upset about that! That's a good conclusion. Thank you very much for such good researchwork

[@bryankreinhart]

You can wash manganese dioxide out of equipment with dilute hydrochloric acid (MnO2 + 4 HCl → MnCl2 + 2 H2O + Cl2) but note that the reaction releases chlorine gas so cleaning outdoors or a well ventilated area is highly recommended.

[@mwilson14]

You may want to try oxalic acid at some point. I have had success in isolating lithium oxalate from other metal salts. It's been a long while since I've recycled my own lithium from batteries, but I remember getting all the cobalt out using aluminum metal in a HCl solution containing cobalt. The lithium oxalate crystals burn red.

[@ScrapScience]

Interesting! I'll have to keep that in mind if I try this again. Does the oxalate work to selectively precipitate lithium? I assume you'll always need to remove the transition metals first.

[@mwilson14]

@@ScrapScience I remember removing the dissolved copper first with iron, then cobalt with aluminum. I was able to use a magnet on the black cobalt precip to mechanically remove it. I don't recall ever attempting to remove manganese in my solution, but there might not have been much since I filtered off all the black sludge as my first step. I used increments of oxalic acid to get ferrous oxalate to precip out if I recall correctly, then reached a point that no more yellow precip formed. I think it was at this point that I began working on the lithium oxalate which formed elongated / needle like crystals. I'll admit that by this time, I didn't have a great idea of how much oxalic acid and oxalate salts were solution and it's really an experiment I need to dive into again. I just thought it was worth mentioning. I know there was a step or two that I took to remove aluminum from the solution, but I honestly can't remember exactly when, but was obviously after the cobalt. Also good to note is that I used a LiPo cell and not Li-Ion as my lithium source.

[@OnsloVest]

Better luck next time mate! Have a beer, on with the next project :)

[@zachreyhelmberger894]

Take a look at it with a diffraction grating to see the spectral lines for identification.

[@georgesackinger2002]

Just wondered why you didn't do the flame test with each solution to find the lithium? Really appreciated the experimentation. You will succeed!

[@ScrapScience]

Lithium has a pretty weak flame colour compared to most other ions. In all of the other solutions, there are too many other cations to make the lithium flame visible.

[@superioropinion7116]

5:27 Forbidden wine

[@ThisFish888]

Would it be easier to get metallic lithium out of disposable lithium batteries, I know they contain it in metallic form idk how safe or practicle it would be to remove it from some cheap surefire cr123a batteries.

[@ScrapScience]

That’s very true. It’s much more convenient to get metallic lithium from non-rechargeable lithium batteries. However, this method is ridiculously expensive for the amount of lithium you get, so I was trying to develop a different (more affordable) lithium extraction.

[@MrRicser]

I have a question: at what pH-value do u give the (ammonium) peroxidisulfate to precipitate the manganese? And how many grams do one need per L solution? I would like to try this step myself...

[@ScrapScience]

I was loosely following this paper: doi.org/10.1039/D0RA09297E It appears as though the exact pH is not critical, as long as it's at least a bit acidic. I don't remember exactly what pH this solution was at. From memory, I used a bit over 75 g of the persulfate to precipitate the manganese from this quantity of material, but this is likely to be a big excess.

[@RedDogForge]

why did the bottom break? heat? was that import glass advertised as boron silicate?

[@ScrapScience]

A mixture of the hot solution and the vacuum I had on it was what did it I assume. I honestly can't remember whether it was advertised as borosilicate, but I doubt it given the results.

[@runspace]

You need to use an armored tube for this kinda stuff, dude;)

[@mohammadhoseinnaserian1922]

Thanks for your great videos man. why you do not send your powder and solution for analysis, to be sure where is the lithium really?

[@ScrapScience]

As much as that would be nice, sending samples for this type of analysis is difficult and expensive for the individual who doesn't run a real lab. I'm afraid it's just not cost effective from my position.

[@ripaklaus764]

my fav book is "where did the lithum go" by tom explosions&ire, a commentary on poor yields and yellow chemistry

[@kreynolds1123]

Do you think one could remove the carbons like graphite paper towels plastics ect with supercritical water in a heated pressure container?

[@ScrapScience]

I've got no idea, sorry. I've never really looked into any processes involving high pressure.

[@kreynolds1123]

@@ScrapScience Just letting you know super critical water oxidation is a real thing. 😁

[@petevenuti7355]

That got me thinking maybe just dissolve in piranha solution, that'll turn the carbons to CO2, then separate the sulfates

[@buggsy5]

When possible, do a small amount in a test tube, before committing the whole volume to an uncertain procedure. Also, do you have the capabilities to do qualitative/quantitative analysis?

[@yehiaali3899]

I know I'm kind of late but remember the paper from 1921 that you followed to make potassium permanganate? They used acetic acid and hydrogen peroxide to dissolve manganese dioxide so you could try using that to clean the beaker.

[@ScrapScience]

Interesting. I've just been using concentrated hydrochloric acid lately, but that generates a small amount of chlorine when it dissolves the manganese dioxide. This is probably a better method, thanks!

[@NishchayG]

Hey!! I have finnaly completed electrochemistry school level as it's my last year at school Man it's so nostalgic how time changed :')

[@sofihamdanulhuda4149]

Please made video about perchlorate cell

[@asstronix6657]

6:30 you can't produce manganese dioxide with manganese sulfate and ammonium sulfate! So what did you exactly add to the solution with manganese sulfate? Maybe Ammonium dioxide?

[@ScrapScience]

Ammonium persulfate, not ammonium sulfate. My accent possibly makes the 'per-' part of the word a little bit difficult to pick up.

[@ThuanDuong-pv3xu]

you have a voice similar to actor Tom Cruise (as Ethan), you should have predicted the amount of metal and the amount of acid and base added and write the equation . your video is very good, and in a Li-ion battery with LiCoO2, the Li ions diffuse into the graphite and they stay in the graphite

[@mrkahn1969]

Thanks for the subtitle

[@JohnOakwest]

brought to you by Zoloft™

[@una-voz]

Aunque no funcionó te agradezco por tu video, me ahorro bastante tiempo, creó que tengo la solución, probaré y publicaré si funciona, mil gracias de antemano.

[@craigcain6553]

Yeah thanks man ,I tried something similar and it was a dud,but learned something anyways. Learning is the goal right? :)

[@AliSher-ix5lz]

have you tried leaching?

[@ScrapScience]

Leaching the lithium?

[@Enjoymentboy]

I think there is something important to take away from this which does make it worthwhile, and that is the order in which you extract the metals. It would seem that the manganese and cobalt were the main problems and extracting them first might make extracting any lithium not only easier but even possible.

[@bigjay875]

Never forget your mistakes in life learn from them and try to use your ah shit moments to teach others. Great Chanel keep up the good work 👍

[@MDNQ-ud1ty]

What if I can't forget?

[@unlockeduk]

you didnt flame test?

[@ScrapScience]

Flame test happens at 23:38

[@unlockeduk]

@@ScrapScience sorry musta mi9ssed it lol weird cause i watched till end soz

[@hanleypc]

I see from a Nilered short that there is allot of lithium in Energiser Ultimate Lithium batteries.

[@ScrapScience]

Yep! It's a pretty expensive way to get it, but much easier. Might be the better way to go about it in the future. At least we'll eventually get some cobalt from these batteries though.

[@hbjon]

Hahahaha. Lord have mercy. Back to the drawing board.

[@hoggif]

Use something else than a latex tube for vacuum. Those always collapse under vacuum like seems to have happened in your first filtration too. Something with stiffer and preferably thicker walls work so much better. Even simple pvc tube or whatever is better, latex is one of the worst and easiest to collapse. I think those thin wall bottles are very prone to collapsing. For vacuum you should use thick wall filter bottle or round bottle. Some chinese sellers seem to just add a side connection to normal erlenmayer bottle and you should never use normal erlenmayers under vacuum due to the risk of breaking. Even with good quality erlenmayers it is a recipe for an accident.

[@petevenuti7355]

oxalate and citrate look promising, cyanide to in low concentration.

[@gobawin]

Im a chem noob but would it be possible to extract lithium hydroxide (I think) from the majority of the other elements with water at the beginning then clean and precipitate similar to doing the same with lithium foil from batterys? And could there be something with the lithium reacting with the carbon from the electrode making lithium carbonate or something like water and or oxygen in the reactions that prevent extraction because its a hydroxide, oxide or carbonate at the wrong point in the extraction. Guessing its not a problem when using acids even when diluted? Or im just brain farting, seems your other viewers and you know much more than I but hopefully my farts help us both if not helps me learn without doing experiments that would end horribly 😂. Keen to see what you do next. Definitely subscribing!

[@ScrapScience]

If I'm understanding you correctly, that was kind of the idea in the last episode, where we tried leaching out the lithium from the incinerated batteries by adding water. While I thought it was a good idea, it didn't work. As for the form of the lithium salt, a hydroxide, oxide, and carbonate should all react in pretty much exactly the same way upon the addition of acid (as you've noted), so its unlikely that that's where our problems lie. Regardless, your guess is as good as mine when trying to figure out where this extraction went wrong.

[@MrRicser]

Oh boy, calcium carbonate or hydroxide is the worst :D Why not try ammonia?

[@ScrapScience]

It would probably work to use ammonia here, but I wanted to avoid any issues of ammonia complexes redissolving, and I also wanted to avoid adding any more ions to the solution when I didn't need to.

[@MrRicser]

@@ScrapScience U are maybe right with the redissolving with ammonia. This can be solved with electrolysis of the rest heavy metals afterwards, which also destroys the ammonia. The classical way with LIBs is solving with H2SO4 and then precipitating with sodium carbonate first the nickel and cobalt and manganese together and then afterwards give more carbonate until the Li2CO3 preciptates at pH 13-14. And again, better use carbonate powder.

[@dsraykar]

Not working

[@markshort9098]

RIP vacuum flask.. looks like they didn't heat treat it properly, i have a glass asperator that i use for vacuum filtering and it pulls a really good vacuum and all my glassware is chinese and I've never had any issues yet luckily.. It's hard to go past chinese glassware with the cost difference, all my stuff would have probably cost me 10k if it wasn't chinese

[@ScrapScience]

Aspirator pumps are super convenient! I was actually using one for the filtration at 17:50, but I think I might need a faster water pump for it. And yeah, don't get me wrong, glassware from China is almost always extremely high quality for the price. This one was just a bad egg it seems.

[@bunk822]

You learn from your mistakes

[@skidderjohn]

I understand how you feel about getting tired of stuff I had a whole bunch of laboratory stuff and chemicals but my ex and I we got broke up and I lost all my stuff I even had a forge I had all kinds of things you wouldn't believe but now I'm trying to rebuild them so I know how frustrated you get in I had lithium metal I have potassium metal and sodium metal at all kinds of stuff like Square in electrolysis E I had all kinds of glassware for 2440 2940 or however however it is whatever 14 something else I'm telling you I have been there I know what you're talkin about I need help try to rebuild this is really the only thing that really makes me happiest thinking of chemistry like organic and inorganic I think of it as physical chemistry

[@richardamullens]

I think that you tried to do too much in one step. I would have neutralised the acidic solution with calcium carbonate.

[@carlokos3933]

Go for chemistry studies first, would be helpful for you!!?

[@rovhalgrencparselstedt8343]

This is the reason why electric vehicles are such a environmetal disaster, there simply is no viable recycling process avaible yet for Li-ion batteries other than burning them and basically landfill the ashes.

[@susanford9741]

𝐩яⓞ𝓂𝓞Ş𝐦 ❤️

[@pitersoft54]

First

[@markshort9098]

🏆

[@andrewvogel5344]

Cheap chinese glassware will do that to you

[@andrewvogel5344]

Don't buy Chinese glassware first time I started refining gold and silver I bought some really cheap glassware and unsurprisingly it broke and I'm lost part of my solution I could not enough with paper towels after that I started buying good glassware