Sea Kayaking is Dead??

[@LiamB3170]

I just came back from a 6 day kayaking trip to the Deer Group in Barkley Sound off Vancouver Island. It's August, the weather's great, seas calm, whales breaching near our boats, fabulous white sandy beaches. We saw zero other kayakers. Our group of 7, all in our 60's and 70's, spent some time discussing why there was no one else out on the water. We are middle class baby boomers. We own houses. We can store kayaks in our garages. We also don't care if we can't scroll Instagram every 5 minutes. I work with many young people (under 40) who love outdoor activities. They all rent apartments and tell me they'll never be able to afford a house. Many young people also don't want to be disconnected from their devices for longer than a few hours. Because of this, young people are gravitating towards day use activities like paddle boarding and buy inflatable SUPs that can be stored in a 500 sq ft apartment. It's too bad, I'd like to see young folks out on long kayak touring trips, but it's just the reality of 1) unaffordable housing and 2) the "always connected" generation.

[@rabmcleod3508]

Ive been sea kayaking for almost 40 years now, in that time I have seen a lot of change good and bad. There has always been an ebb and flow of numbers taking to the sea as times change, as politics change and as recessions come and go. If you even it out though the numbers have increased as people search for an escape from the chaos of modern life, the rise of the middle class with more available money to spend has boosted sales and like all sales they rise and then fall. I have never seen sea kayaking in a better place than it is now and when I was younger it was mostly older males with that salty sea dog look that I met on the waves but now I see a ton of young folks reaching out to get on the water and learn the skills, to be at one with nature, to immerse themselves in the enviroment that they want to protect and honestly its a really exciting time to be around the coastline with most of my favourite spots busy with folks getting out on the water and becoming involved. Sea kayaking for me has given me a lifetime of joy and learning and believe me that every day is still a school day and the news is sea kayaking aint going nowhere other than up. Keep up the good work my friend and you have every reason to be positive about the future, its going to be great.

[@TurningPointBoatworks]

Rab, you summed up this up in such an elegant and positive way. I too see all the diversity at events and the "old grey bearded sea dog" is now in the minority. The dynamic is changing and paddlers are gravitating to open water for the escape and therapeutic nature of sea kayaking. Well said my friend, well said!

[@susanlupton2079]

Thank Neptune for expressing your point of view! Well said. The nay saying, infighting and acrimony of many in the recent social media has been really annoying. Yup, things change! The peaks in the general population's enthusiasm for any recreational activity, including kayaking, ebb and flow over the decades, but the base usually remains fairly even. Owned avocation retail for 20 years, been there done that. Only way forward is change. Among the youtubers, whose approach and attitude I have come to appreciate are Air on the Water and Sea Kayak Life, enthusiastic, safety conscious, adventuresome without being judgmental. Both groups are leading by doing positive things with a great attitude. I'm another over 50 kayaker, who enjoys open water, flat water kayaking regardless of boat size. My kids joke that I own a graduated mixing bowl set of boats. I have been fortunate enough to acquire higher end boats, both new and gently used. I love my long boats but they are not the be all to end all of kayaking, especially where I live. The skills necessary to handle them translate down to the smaller pair. One thing that I have noticed when out on the water is that others paddling big box store poly boats come to recognize that the design and material of a kayak can make a big difference to performance and enjoyment. Friends and water buddies have switched up after paddling my boats. The market for quality and new challenges is there.

[@pingkuo7355]

Truthful, unfiltered and passionate opinion, so many KZbin videos are now so scripted, it's refreshing to see someone that just speaks their mind. Thank you Joey.

[@TurningPointBoatworks]

Thank you! The internal discussions that happen before doing one of these videos is sometimes paralyzing. This has been brewing for years. Every winter the same discussion comes up. We used to call it the "Race to the Bottom". I think we reached it and the influx of new paddlers that found the sport during the pandemic is a positive.

[@keithmoriyama5421]

When I started 20 years ago, kayaks were the new cool kid on the block and canoes were yesterday. Today, canoes are making a huge come back and SUP's are the new 'cool'-- especially among young females who want to show off their body. The kayak market has now fractured but, overall bigger than ever. 20 years ago there were no dedicated fishing kayaks; today they are the largest segment of the market. Rec boats have now become hybrid day touring kayaks-- a great introduction to more serious paddling. I meet many rec boaters who stop and stare at my 17' Delta and say, "beautiful, that's my next kayak." One thing I have noticed is that sea kayaks in general have been coming down in length. 15'x22" seems to be the perfect length. New to the sport, that's what I got my wife after 2 seasons in a 13'x25" Riot. She is completely converted now-- empowered if you will. When she is 100 yards ahead of me, I have to work like crazy to catch up to her. In short paddle sports are bigger than ever. Sea kayaks are only the pinnacle of that huge mound... nothing to worry about.

[@Scootchels]

I’ve been in the business for the last 20 years. The long sea kayaks just aren’t as popular as they were. Same with whitewater. Surf ski sales are up, but it’s never going to be as big a category as sea kayaks were. The cheap categories are up. People have easy access to the cheap junk and never get involved enough, or have good enough experience, to spend the big bucks. I don’t believe that sea kayaks will ever “die”, but the trend isn’t in our favor right now. I’ve been leaning in other directions and hoping that the trend picks back up.

[@joshinfwtx4506]

First of your videos I've seen. Glad to hear that the sport is not dying because I just started dreaming about my first high performance long boat and started saving my nickels. Appreciated your passion and wish your business the best of luck moving forward

[@barry4fish19]

I think it would be great if more paddling groups offered a demo day open to young, less experienced kayakers to try out a variety of touring/sea kayaks and find out first hand what they are missing, and how they can make the next step towards it becoming a lifetime activity. I have talked to too many recreational kayakers that are not aware of the increased enjoyment they can get with a longer, more performance-oriented craft. It’s not about “my boat is better than yours”, it’s about providing readily available opportunities to learn and experience these kayaks first-hand, something that isn’t often possible through every paddle shop out there. I think it’s possible to hook more young people into it this way - no obligation to buy anything, just learn and experience. Most members of the kayak groups I am members of, think it’s a great idea. Maybe we haven’t done enough of that to keep the sport going like we wish.

[@davethornton9556]

i am with you !! you make a great kayak , thank you for all you do. Patric at Falcon sails is a good friend of mine who also makes a great product. thanks again Dave

[@TurningPointBoatworks]

Thanks Dave! Love what Patrick and Falcon is doing. Phenomenal product made by great and passionate people.

[@dennisvasey]

Exceptional discussion! It's crucial to adapt our recreational programs to align with the evolving landscape of sea kayaking. Post-pandemic, we now focus on understanding its advances and changes to better cater to kayaking enthusiasts' needs and interests. We aim to keep the sport thriving and attract new participants who can benefit from its mental and physical rewards. The new designs may be the drivers that ensure sea kayaking continues to inspire and challenge individuals in the future.

[@TurningPointBoatworks]

There are new designs on the horizon that are changing the sport in a refreshing way. Attracting people of all ages, genders and ethnicities by removing the gatekeepers of the sport is my point. The typical surly sea kayaker archetype is off-putting and a detriment to the sport. This yearly discussion that keeps happening is something that needs to stop. Recalling the good old days and attendance of the glory days of the West Coast Symposiums does nothing to move the sport forward. A mantra I like to keep in mind is that you can not see what is coming if you are focused on the rearview mirror.

[@snowleopard1918]

Sea kayaking is dead is totally ridiculous. Here on the west coast of Canada it’s booming. During the covid pandemic, it was crazy busy. Though not large numbers of composite boats. But like you said they are pricey, probably $6k with tax here. That’s huge here mainly because of the coast of living sucking every dollar out of you. But still we have Seaward and Delta manufacturing here. Shops with Riot, Boreal, P&H, and Sterling across the border in the USA. Thermoformed an rotomold are very popular, mainly because of cost, but there are actually a fair number of composite boats out there too and lots of people with Pelican barges from Costco with aluminum shaft paddles. When they see me with my Greenland paddle they always ask questions. I tell them politely that you’ve got an entry level boat and paddle and it only gets more fun as you get a little bit better boat and paddle. Some are just ok in their Costco barges and that’s ok. They are still out enjoying kayaking, some will seek out better boats and some won’t. I’m almost 70 and the vast majority are 30-40 yrs old. I mean not too many young couples are going to spend $12k on two composite boats. There are lots of SUPs too, but fewer canoes than anything. If I’m going to buy a composite boat, I’d like to pick my colours too, I think everyone wants their colour even at the low end if they could.

[@TurningPointBoatworks]

The statement that most are 30-40 years old is contrary to what all of the doomsdayers are saying. That is great for the sport. You are right, there is significant attrition as you climb the ladder in Sea Kayaking, but it has always been that way. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

[@bigpondkayaks7731]

I get what you are saying bud, over in the uk it’s busy busy, we can’t make enough, you know my company I’m a one man band doing my thing but from what I can see over here it’s never been so busy since the 70s, also not much has changed in manufacturing and quality, but it’s getting better you can see more lighter kayaks and carbon coming in, but it’s a cost v what they want and what they can afford, so still quite fibreglassy

[@TurningPointBoatworks]

Same here. Busy, busy for sure. You and I are set up for the market now. Custom is in and store bought is out. Our symposiums are all selling out with waiting lists!

[@leveraction]

Like anything you have to evolve to survive Swiss watch makers invented quartz movements and Kodak invented digital cameras both got left behind when they wanted to stay in the past.

[@ericstephenson145]

Interesting review of the situation. I'm a whitewater kayaker in Colorado. Would love to try sea kayaking. I love river tripping and I think ocean kayaking and island/beach camping would be fun. Might move to a warmer climate eventually and give it a go.

[@offshorekayak]

I’ll raise my hand and say i have previously resembled the comments you admonish (although I was not the perpetrator you mentioned online). As a younger paddler I have often thought the hobby is dying. Before any of you throw your dentures at me, i have also striven to bring new people into the sport and I agree it is changing more than dying. I see the changes you mentioned… still I wish there were more young paddlers. My biggest gripe is that I see younger people driven away by kermudgeons, gatekeeping, I-won’t-paddle-unless-you-pay-me fees, and nay saying. I’ll try to do better, it is honestly good to know that such negativity can hurt your business.

[@robertnissenbaum]

I came into this sport at 50!

[@TurningPointBoatworks]

I was an outlier and started in my 30's!

[@maze400]

Good on you for venting brother, it's important to unwind.... Looking forward to your next video....

[@TurningPointBoatworks]

Thank you, the vent may continue.....

[@kayasper6081]

I don't have a clue were you are talking about? Here in Spain sea kayaking is every year even more alive, it is very popular! The only thing is that it is much harder than ever before buying paddles or kayak abroad, for some reason for us Spaniards it looks like there isn't hardly any product available anymore in the European market.

[@jmpridr]

The whole country has developed a sour negative attitude that has seeped into everything. You are so correct! I love kayaking and will be doing it as long as I can. I freely loan my boats to others, who have never experienced what a sleek, efficient boat can do. Some day, I hope to afford one of your BEAUTIFUL works of art. Until then, I'm happy paddling whenever and wherever I can Keep producing your masterpieces!

[@whitecord1]

I am waiting for a touring surfski adaptation from you so i no excuse not to buy one of your sweet kayaks.

[@kayaksight]

As a family guy with two kids (9 and 5), I do find myself being a rare breed of a frequent paddler (100 outings per year) to be honest and often judge myself on the subject of time spent with family (have a very tolerant wifey btw, kudos to her). However, I think it is very important for kids to realize that dad has a hobby and likes it very much, so that one day they can also have one of their own and use it to their advantage, realise it's value. The reason for these "popularity oscilations" with kayaking I feel is because ppl are simply not educated enough to even pick up kayaking. I am good friends with a local kayak dealer who is an expert national team K1 kayak coach and he struggles to explain how good kayaking is sometimes to newbies. I think the more options to try out you have the more likely you are to pick it up, as it is great, obviously. I am a river paddler but really try to popularize the whole kayaking concept with my Instagram and KZbin content. It is going slow, but I don't mind :) Cheers on the honesty in this video, we need more of that in every aspect of life!

[@GetOutandKayakMalta]

Sea kayaking is becoming the number one sport in Malta! Come join us!

[@garychristensen4115]

Glad to hear some honesty! Kudos to you.

[@joethi4981]

I love being counter cultural so if people are not interested in sea kayaking, that makes me all more enthusiastic to be excited about sea kayaking.

[@jimmurdy5762]

interesting. A focus of my club is getting new paddlers , but point parents with active kids making it had to get away is valid in few new paddlers have kids younger than high school. I see that as we get "less young" needs are for shorter, lighter boats that still perform and more options for getting boats on and off cars easily. losing weight and saving for a petrel play, but the stratos 14.54 L is going strong

[@TurningPointBoatworks]

The club level is the foundation of the sport. Good for them for promoting it at a grass roots level.

[@susanlupton2079]

Very true. We've been blessed with a three day weekend of great weather, the last of the season. Everyone was smiling. When faced with the perennial question, perhaps there is another approach - "so what if sea kayaking is 'dying'?". It won't be dead. ( ´･･)ﾉ(._.`) A new generation of people curious about an arcane sport will come along and have a rich history to draw upon - there will still be folks with skills and knowledge to pass on; there will be a fleet of great vintage boats to supplement whatever models are available in the future; there will be the classic texts and videos to refer to. Those new kayakers will be able to revitalize sea kayaking, adding new products and invigorating energy. So, what is the overarching problem? Change!

[@pfv3462]

I think there will always be new beginners! But there is only one thing you have no control over, and that is new laws that ensure that kayaking is no longer allowed anywhere especially here in Europe!

[@TurningPointBoatworks]

Interesting take for sure. Since I live on the East Coast of the US, most all of the shoreline is privately owned. The number of kayak specific launch points is small and we are forced to share launches with larger boats that are not all that welcome. But the assertion that laws are preventing participation is a new one and i would like to know more.

[@pfv3462]

@@TurningPointBoatworks It's like the 15 minute cities, but I ordered my new fishing kayak this morning, I'll have to experiment and find out where I can still row here most of the shoreline are privately owned and kayak specific launch points you can count on one hand! I'm going to join a kayaking club for insurance and to make new kayaking friends.

[@susanlupton2079]

Reached my word limit so the last sentence. Please keep on building wonderful boats and teaching the skills to use them! Also thank you for speaking up; you were not out of bounds.

[@TurningPointBoatworks]

Thank you! I've noticed the same in that paddlers generally see the benefit and will buy "up" in quality. Big box store kayaks are kayaks! The smile of a person paddling a $300 kayak is the same as one paddling a $3000 kayak.

[@barry4fish19]

@@TurningPointBoatworksI do have another perspective. Here in the central US where we have no coastal environments to paddle in, water craft are dominated by shorter, cheap recreational kayaks and also fishing kayaks. Nothing wrong with those, but my experience is that most recreational kayakers in my area really don’t know what they are missing because they don’t have opportunities to try, or to be introduced to touring boats with better performance. Touring boats are perceived as expensive to own and more dangerous (or at least, requiring more effort in the way of safety training, etc). Other indicators for us, is the availability of touring kayaks (they just aren’t sold here in Missouri, rarely, due to lack of dealers) and the availability of safety training (there is none for those that want to really advance). The touring kayaks I own had to be special ordered and I had to travel out of state to get them, or to get flatwater training. And what’s amazing, is that we have the MR340 in our back yard! So, the perception is different depending on where you are. If I want to even test paddle a composite kayak (or thermoformed either), I have to travel several states away, no dealers or manufacturers here (unless you count REI, where you can’t really order one). So, to me, it’s not surprising that the average kayaker here owns a 10’ boat and has never had the opportunity to even try a longer craft, even if they have seen them before. I agree there are new opportunities on the horizon and we will keep working on that, but the floating culture is different here than it is closer to the coastlines.

[@SydneySewerat]

The day of polyethylene kayaks has ended. That means less sales. Igor a 38lb kiwi made 4.88m sea kayak made in abs. You can't buy that sort of stuff in USA.

[@FrankLadd]

It used to be a sport largely for British Men and older ones at that. Now I see more women than men in many paddler groups. And sales of new equipment may go down but that doesn't mean anything like it does for other sports. The better touring boats last more than 20 years, and if it can be repaired then much longer. It has always been a tough business, but the sport goes on.

[@bryanb8366]

Here's my take on the sea kayaking dieing. I'm 42 and it took years for me to be able to afford the higher level boat. The past few years I have been paddling a used 2003 Seward Luna. Love the boat. Last month I just got a new Pilgrim expedition. The problem I see is that the few sea kayakers out there will not paddle with the rec boaters. Between boat and paddles I got $6k. These guys are paddling with less than $600. Most people will never make the investment unless they get to try out the higher level gear. Let's involve the beginner.

[@keithmoriyama5421]

Of course sea kayakers don't want to paddle with rec boaters. If you are a jogger you will not be happy taking a leisurely walk in the park.

[@bryanb8366]

@@keithmoriyama5421 but who's going to go and spend $5,000 on a boat that has never got to see the difference. I get you. I would never take a rec boater island hopping up on lake Erie with me. There's a time and place for everything. Just like in the winter the whitewater people invite me to the pool with them. Or we will surf together up on the lake.

[@bernarddugas5251]

Far from dying, great video

[@user-hh5xq2bo5t]

Get real. I've paddled the San Juans, Northern Chain for 24 years. Where is everyone? Huh?

[@ny69yh]

WELL SAID!!!