Bands That Waited Too Long to Release an Album...And Had Bad Timing (w/Martin Popoff)

[@patrickcrowther9195]

I've said it before and I'll say it again - 'The Final Cut' is wonderful. It couldn't have come out pre-1982 because it was greatly inspired by the events of the Falklands War in that year. I think British fans perhaps feel closer to the album because it really explores the emotional damage done to people in Britain during WW2 and other conflicts. Obviously people all over the world lost love ones in that period, but Waters was exploring a particularly English response to pain ('button your lip, don't let the shield slip'). It's my favourite Pink Floyd album. They did 31 shows in total for 'The Wall'. They performed it 18 times in 1980 (Los Angeles, Long Island, London) and 13 times in 1981 (Dortmund and London again).

[@b.g.5869]

It's mostly stuff recorded during The Wall sessions that didn't make the final cut, which is in part what the title refers to. It was essentially a contractual obligation album. The idea of making it about the Falklands War was an afterthought; it was originally going to be the soundtrack for the movie version of The Wall. Waters was completely clueless about the Falklands situation also. The Falklands were never part of Argentina, and never had an indigenous population. The British were essentially its indigenous population since they were the only permanent settlers on the islands. Argentina, which had a corrupt dictator at the time, figured the British would never bother to defend it, but they had lots of British subjects in jeopardy there; they did the right thing. Waters used to say Thatcher should have tried to resolve the matter diplomatically; she did but Argentina essentially told her to pound sand. Big mistake. Waters has always been eager to make a grand heroic political statement but he doesn't have a good head for politics.

[@patrickcrowther9195]

@@b.g.5869 Yes I knew he kind of reworked it to include his response to the Falklands War. Whatever the rights and wrongs of his take on it, I think it works brilliantly as an album. For me it features his best ever lyrics and his finest singing.

[@b.g.5869]

@@patrickcrowther9195 I really like the album also. Gilmour hated it; he and Roger argued a lot about it. Gilmour argued if it wasn't good enough for The Wall why is it good enough to put on an album now? Waters actually was fine with doing other stuff but Gilmour didn't have any ideas at the time, so Waters was like "Ok, then STFU" etc. Interestingly enough, before they made The Wall, Waters had the concepts and demos for both The Wall and The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking and asked the band which one they liked better and they picked The Wall.

[@jimmycampbell78]

I dislike everything about Roger Waters solo; I love Pink Floyd but beginning with The Wall I start to hate the direction the ‘band’ goes in. I view The Final Cut as an extension of Roger Waters solo work. If you love it its fine but in my opinion it means you are a fan of Roger Waters Solo rather than Pink Floyd. I loathe his voice; on anything. My favourite PF songs are sung by Gilmour and Waters’ voice only works with Gilmour in counterpoint. Waters voice to me is like Dylan’s is to some people, sandpaper and glue. I also hate his conceptual ideas after Floyd, some of the albums don’t even make sense and sprawl in directions. Apologies rant over- not a fan. I love most Pink Floyd albums but when people talk about enjoying the later era and Final Cut especially I get triggered!

[@aidenswords5809]

Magnificent album, much better than gilmours the grass wos greener awful stuff despite wot people will say

[@johnmichaelwilliams6694]

Popoff and Pardo are at it again to discuss why timing (often is) everything. Great picks and several mentioned that would be on any personal list. But also on that list would be Chinese Democracy by Guns N' Roses and Dire Straits follow-up to Brothers In Arms. For the first, lost complete interest in the band by that time; for the second, still loved the band but a bit of a wait and did not help keep them in the public eye in the days of MTV. Thanks, gents, for another interesting show. Really looking forward to the next obscure albums show but a favor to ask. Please consider posting a list of each in the comments for those of us who may need to track down those selected for further listening. Thanks again, Martin and Pete. A favorite part of Friday each week. There ya go!

[@williamtallman9816]

Chinese Democracy is on the Mount Rushmore of bad timing albums. I

[@steveclark8538]

Indeed. Timing is so important in many areas of life it’s the difference between success and failure. That’s certainly true in the stock market as well!

[@keithleeuwen877]

Heavy Heavy Fuel.

[@josemiguel994]

The Stone Roses would be a good example: debut is from 1989 and it took them 5 years to come up with album number 2.

[@mumbles215]

First group I thought of. Killed their career outside the UK

[@tillwesenberg1178]

Which nobody needed.

[@jcollins1305]

First album is a classic too. Shame

[@johnbain5747]

Brilliant band totally agree took too long

[@simplechronology2605]

I think the Stone Roses are the ultimate example of waiting too long. The musical climate of 1994 was utterly changed from 1989, and the contemporaries of the scene the Stone Roses came from had mostly already broken up. There was so much buzz surrounding that first album, and if they had managed to come up with an album as good in 1990 or even 1991, they might have had some real staying power.

[@b.g.5869]

Definitely The Brady Bunch. A 20 year gap from "The Brady Bunch Phonographic Album" to "It's a Sunshine Day: The Best of the Brady Bunch". They were on fire in '73 with hits like "Time To Change" and "It's A Sunshine Day". Then they wait 20 years to do a follow up and it's basically just a greatest hits album.

[@Adept179]

Wheres the Marsha Playboy spread? Would have helped the sales

[@b.g.5869]

@@Adept179 Having Alice do it instead certainly didn't help.

[@jukeboxcowboy]

I reckon I gotta give a tip of the hat to little Cindy Brady belting out "I saw SATAN laughing with delight!!!" in the Brady Bunch cover of "The Day the music Died." The kid was metal.

[@Adept179]

No false metal

[@jukeboxcowboy]

@@Adept179 I reckon that Brady Metal is a whole 'nother level, yo. (LOL at Alice quip)

[@MrSmitht04]

Martin and Pete are amazing. I look forward to this show every Friday

[@herrdwabash]

After Peter Gabriel did 'So', his focus was the music for Martin Scorsese's film 'The Last Temptation Of Christ,' and then further developing the soundtrack into the 'Passion' album, which is a masterpiece of world music. That's why there was such a big gap between 'So' and 'Us'.

[@grantpenton1850]

I didn't get 'So' after being a fan since his Genesis days, but enjoy Us & Up and of course Birdy & the later soundtracks much better than the forced awkward pop hits of So.

[@herrdwabash]

@@grantpenton1850 I'm glad that 'Us' is getting the respect it deserves, certainly more than when it was released. It was a huge influence on Chris Martin.

[@pablocruise9514]

Never knew that. Great point

[@b.g.5869]

@@grantpenton1850 I can't stand his 80s pop stuff (e.g. Sledehammer). I don't know why so many of these bands and artists that started out doing amazing stuff ended up doing bland pop crap; particularly in the late 80s but certainly not limited to the 80s (Genesis, Rush, Yes, Paul McCartney). That's a place few return from (Bowie is one notable exception that comes to mind; McCartney has been there and back several times).

[@bryanmcfadden4071]

Last temptation of Christ is a masterpiece

[@shizuokaBLUES]

I think I love hearing you guys chatting about this and that, as much as about the music. Great chemistry and it’s like I’m having coffee with some buddies.

[@powrnap]

Jellyfish - Spilt Milk (3 years, everything changed), Bogmen - Closed Caption Radio (same), Eric Johnson - Venus Isle (6 years!), Dire Straits - On Every St. (same), BOC - Revolution by Night (failed to capitalize on Fire of Unknown Origin)

[@commonman317]

On that "Big Generator" YES album, "Shoot High Aim Low" is a masterpiece! Beautiful drumming on that song. Pete was right about that album. YES waited too long with "Big Generator". That album ironically has a rushed, unfinished vibe to it though. A very quirky collection of songs put together. Overall, I still like it.

[@YouDummy]

I still love Big Generator. I remember Chris Squire saying that he and Alan had the bass and drums done for 18 months before the song was finished

[@oceanhedonist265]

@@YouDummy I listened to the "Big Generator" CD a lot when it was released. It was in my regular rotation for 3-4 months.

[@andersondavies3589]

Wonderful album. But, man! the cover!!! After all those Roger Dean ones! I believe, 2 years earlier and a different cover, they might have bcome a second Progband gone pop like Genesis - new style, new band, but success and quality unsurpassed. And no one wouild have minded them returning to prog later :)

[@michaelbaucom4019]

Kansas: 7 years after releasing " In the Spirit of Things ", releasing " Freaks of Nature ". Freaks was an excellent album, but, at that time, people just weren't looking for prog music, and the single " Hope Once Again " didn't do well. Also Kansas: Waiting 16 years between " Somewhere To Elsewhere " and " The Prelude Implicit " nearly ended their carreer( due to Steve Walsh refusing to do new music during this time) Dire Straits: On Every Street, six years after " Brothers In Arms ". Street was an excellent album, but didn't sell...Dire Straits had dropped off the radar. This was by Mark Knopfler's choice...he was physically and mentally burned out from the " Brothers In Arms " experience. Supertramp: Waiting until the mid 1990s to release " Some Things Never Change " album. Between the " Free As A Bird " album flopping, and the long wait( and the Hodgson/Davies feud)Supertramp was largely forgotten. And Some Things was mediocre...Waiting three years to release " Famous Last Words " after " Breakfast in America " merits mention also( thanks Pete) Boston is the definition of the topic

[@georgecostanza8927]

To dive deep into pop music, how about Lionel Richie from 1986’s “Dancing on the Ceiling “ (4 million copies) to 1996’s “Louder than Words” (28 thousand copies). Lionel Richie was highly successful with “Can’t Slow Down” (1983) ( 20 million copies) and “Dancing on the Ceiling”. Lionel took too long of a studio album break and was “old fashioned” ( by Entertainment Weekly) a full decade later.

[@adamsmashups4839]

Wow.I had no idea it was that long between albums.When I was in high school,Dancing on...and All Night were just played to death.

[@moecullity9616]

It’s Raining Again had a lot of air play in Canada, but nothing compared to Breakfast. Brother Where You Bound was a breath of fresh air.

[@gaz6295]

I used to see Angel Witch play live regularly in the late 70s early 80s at a rock pub in East London called the Ruskin Arms, I always remember Kevin Heybourne wearing thigh high leather boots, a great guitarist and vocalist, as Martin rightly says a very underrated band that never reached the heights that they deserved, I agree that there latest albums are also very good, Maiden used to play regularly at the Ruskin Arms too but I never got to see them there, great show as always 👍

[@stevefletcher6163]

Saw them support April Wine of all bands at the Manchester Apollo. I moved to London a couple of years later but the Ruskin Arms hey days with Neal Kay, Maiden, Samson, Angel Witch etc were pretty much over them . I did have the Maiden Soundhouse tapes which from memory I had to buy by post from The Ruskin Arms. Wish I still had it as it goes for hundreds of pounds now.

[@747jono]

Yeah awesome great venue back in the day. Remember Neal Kay and The Soundhouse? He brought Ted Nugent after his gig at Hammersmith Odeon incredible. Happy memories.

[@gaz6295]

@@stevefletcher6163 Yes that certainly would go for a few quid now! I saw April Wine at the Hammersmith Odeon in 81 on the Nature of the Beast tour, I believe the gig was released as a live album, another underated band

[@jimmycampbell78]

I was listening to ‘Angel of Light’ by Angel Witch just the other day. Terrific album. I wish Kevin Heybourne could have kept a more consistent line up together and they could have released more/had more success.

[@glennsmusicchannel]

My recollection is that it took so long for Boston's Third Stage to be made that Tom S had to invent (or find someone else who did) "baking the tapes" to stop the oxides from sticking to the tape machines. This is a practice in wide use now to rescue old analog reel to reels.

[@mattshaw5179]

One that springs to mind is Entombed. They released three death metal classics in the early 90s, then waited four years to release 'to ride shoot straight and speak the truth', though I love the album, lots of people don't, even I have to admit it's not as good! Also Extreme. Waited three years to release the grungy 'Waiting for the punchline' in 1995 by which time grunge was already past its peak. Finally The Stone Roses (not the usual SOT stuff but definitely fit here.) Five years between albums, classic self titled debut, over blown disappointing second album. Great video!!

[@Morbidous]

I love that Entombed album as well, together with Wolverine Blues they are Death'n Roll all time classics, and probably better than everything they did after Nicke Anderson's departure, and you are right about many Death Metal fundamentalists not liking them. The delay between Wolverine and To Ride shoot straight.. had something to do with them leaving Earache and having to create their own label if i'm not mistaken.

[@orangeeye13]

I will never forget my first introduction to the "CULT"... I was 13 years old playing baseball in the Northeast. We won state junior senior leagues back in ohhhh 1987/1988 ish. Have to check my scrapbooks. Our coaches were Awesome. They were barely 20 and we all hit the road on our way to the bigtime. Springfield, Mass, and then on to Jersey for the Championships. We traveled in vans provided by donations and family. Upper little leaguers. We stayed at the Howard Johnson and others. We thought we were such badass like the "Bad news Bears". Our head coach and assistant played us the Cult "Electric" on a night off while bunkering on the trip and they were air guitaring and air drumming all of these songs. I will never forget those times. "Wild Flower", "Love Removal Machine", "Born to be Wild", etc. What a tight sounding record. Timeless. Love the show guys. The best!

[@cheapcinemachannel4548]

The Wallflowers had a huge album in 1996 with Bringing Down the Horse. One Headlight and three other songs getting a lot of airplay. Then they wait until 2000 to release the follow-up, (Breach). They killed all their momentum and the rock scene changed. Sleepwalker was a good comeback single, but at that point it didn't matter.

[@knightvisioniixv]

I think Boston (or Tom Scholz, really) could be the poster child for this topic. They still did fine, overall. EDIT: Funnily enough, just now saw the part where Pete picked Boston, and he applied the 'poster child' descriptor to the band as well, lol!

[@jimmycampbell78]

Tom Scholz is a strange guy. I read an interview with him where he said he doesn’t listen to other bands or any contemporary music, because in his mind he wants to keep his musical inspiration pure and not be unduly influenced by anything else. Pete made me think of this before when he has talked about modern Boston albums and said they have this ‘creepy’ 1970s time capsule vibe.

[@tonyjulius6011]

Boston could be on there twice. Two discs in sixteen years? I know you can take too long, but holt cow, eight years for each? Ouch. On a side note, the Barry Goudreau disc from '79 or '80 is pretty good. I guess Barry asked Tom if it would be OK to do a solo album because he knew if the impending issues. Tom said "Sure, go ahead," not knowing it would be eveyone else in the band but him. Tom was a little surprised.

[@vinylsolution2522]

Haha.. no doubt.. Boston 1 came out when I was in kindergarten... Boston 3 came out when I was in Jr high school.... Amanda !? What took you so long ???

[@Leo-ci9kc]

As a big Floyd fan, I have to say that The Wall was originally only performed in 4 cities (New York, LA, London, Dortmund (Germany). I don’t think The Final Cut took too long to come out, I just think too many people saw it as leftovers from the wall, although I quite like it. Also, with BOC, it wasn’t the timing of those albums mentioned, it was the quality of why they didn’t sell. They weren’t as good as the previous ones.

[@iainholmes2735]

My mountain bike is so old I'm considering taking it to the Antiques Road Show. Re: Peter Gabriel' 'So': It really was a massive album, very radio-friendly, and he had great videos. But..it was too long to wait for the follow up album. Things had moved on.

[@dummytree]

22:09 Three years seemed like a lot back then. 3 years between albums became the norm a bit later on. Supertramp had internal issues and were probably blown away by the unprecedented success of "Breakfast". It sold about 3 million copies in a small country like France ALONE (which is probably why they recorded their live album in Paris). It's like 3 million copies sold in a single US state. it was massive huge. 41:29 I don't agree. From "Final Eyes" to the end of the album, "Big Generator" sounds proggish to me, which is a good idea (to end the album like that). And I like this album a lot (more than the previous one).

[@EdHerzog1]

Dire Straits. Took them over 6 1/2 years to release a follow-up to Brothers in Arms and US sales dropped from 9 to 1 million.

[@patrickcrowther9195]

True, but I think that was kind of deliberate. Mark Knopfler has said that he was shot by the end of the massive tour for 'Brothers in Arms'. And he also stated that when he started Dire Straits his intention was never to play enormodomes and go through all the rock star bullshit. At heart he seems a pretty humble, down to earth guy who wanted to scale everything down a bit. Perhaps that's why the band has never got back together.

[@andrepires7687]

I think about Direstraits as well. Huge sales decline.

[@Vortigan07]

Very true! Although, if I recall correctly, the world tour that followed on the back of "On Every Street" was huge and (I think) originally open ended because of the demand for tickets etc, it outsold the BIA tour massively. I think that really was the end for Mark after that...and probably a lot of other people too.

[@herrdwabash]

I read somewhere that Pink Floyd could only do a short tour of 'the Wall' because of how massively expensive the production was. That's why nowadays, artists with big productions have to do lots of shows, so that they can break even about halfway through the tour before they start making a profit.

[@b.g.5869]

True. It was a very expensive production. They actually lost money on the original Wall tour. That's one of the reasons Waters wanted to do it again years later, so he could realize his original vision etc.

[@ark1772]

Yes that was the reason. I’m so glad Roger decided to do it again I got to see it 3 times. Amazing.

[@scottcampbell1888]

The problem was it was toured as an arena show when it should have been in stadiums. 30 shows at 15-20 thousand per night as opposed to 60-100 thousand per night is a huge financial defference.

[@davideckert2889]

I saw Pink Floyd at MSG in NYC during the Wall tour and I never knew how lucky I was that they only did a few shows.

[@lemming9984]

I remember a BBC Radio interview with Waters just after the Wall came out. The interviewer asked why they weren't touring, Waters responded that they didn't like touring, so they weren't. The Interviewer asked if they felt any obligation to the fans, Waters responded petulantly (and arrogantly) that no-one forced them to buy the record, so tough-luck. A little later Floyd's investments took a heavy hit, so guess what? Floyd toured the Wall. As much as I loved he Wall I didn't go. Principles.

[@GordonHeaney]

Much as I love the first few Boston albums, waiting up to 8 years per album for mediocrity at best is just gutting

[@catsofsherman1316]

I really liked Third Stage, but nothing after it was worth much. Tom Scholz was a great engineer and Sonic architect, but maybe Boston would have benefited from an outside producer to keep them on track. There is no reason an album should take 8 years to record. That's longer than the entire recording career of The Beatles which produced 13 albums and not many people would call them undercooked.

[@GordonHeaney]

@@catsofsherman1316 Well said sir

[@philshifley4731]

Tom Scholz squandered his opportunity and the talents of everyone around him. He will never be forgiven for that.

[@historybuff1017]

The 4th album is great

[@historybuff1017]

@@philshifley4731 what do you mean? Other than Brad, he was the entire band. The band you see on the album was basically just who played live. He’s the one who played all the instruments on the actual album. You could argue he squandered Brad’s abilities, but Brad did vocals on an album with Barry Goudreau and 2 albums with RTZ in that time period. They all had chances at other projects and many of them did so. Boston was Tom Scholtz. He produced it and played all the instruments on that first album. The only success he really squandered was his own.

[@lemming9984]

The Rainmakers would make my list. They made three great albums in the late 80s then just as they had a chance of breaking really big they had a five year break. Between 1994 and 2014 they made four great albums which were all better than their earlier ones. By then a lot of people had forgotten them, and the albums just crept out quietly, so now they are relatively unknown.

[@francoistruchon5144]

Talking about Supertramp. It’s difficult to believe now, but in the eighties, seventies bands were considered out. One thing change everything in 1981, and it was MTV. Supertramp were not a band made for MTV, and it affected them and a lot of seventies bands.

[@MrDuneedon]

I'm actually a bigger fan of The Final Cut than I am of The Wall. By the way, the reason that The Wall shows back in the day were not extensively toured? They were ridiculously expensive to put on. The ONLY member of Floyd, ironically, who made money from these shows was Rick Wright, who had been relegated to a hired-on musician for the tour. So, he made some nice bank!

[@leewalker662]

Pink Floyd...Another boring band...I found Floyd to be very dull...

[@MrDuneedon]

@@leewalker662 Well hey, great, Lee. Thanks for sharing. You know, it'd probably have been best if you just kept on scrolling, rather than feeling the need to comment. You don't like Pink Floyd. Fine. Cool. But why piss on my post about them?

[@jpdmanchester3226]

That BOC thing with not going with what was musically happening was a good point. Their music could be argued to fit into any rock genre - maybe hair metal no so much - but the respect they could of got with a strong album in 85 would of been enormous. I still like Club Ninja but it needed to sound a bit more meaty and heavier.

[@kforcer]

I love Club Ninja, but I feel like the name sounds a little too silly. I love ninjas, like anyone, but Club Ninja just sounds too wacky. Then again, that sorta makes it interesting.

[@vintagevinylvets1187]

This was a good one, thanks guys. We love The Cult and have always followed them, still do. No one really sounds quite like them, especially with Ian’s vocals.🎧🔥

[@patriotpizzaman]

I don't think Pink Floyd really fits this one. The concert was performed just 31 times in four cities: Los Angeles (7 shows), Uniondale (5), Dortmund (8) and London (11). The primary 'tour' consisted of 18 shows in L.A., Uniondale and London in 1980, but the band performed a further eight shows in Dortmund (13-20 February 1981) and five more shows at Earl's Court (13-17 June) for filming, with the intention of integrating the shows into the upcoming movie. David Gilmour and Nick Mason attempted to convince Waters to expand the show for a more lucrative, large-scale stadium tour, but because of the nature of the material (one of the primary themes is the distance between an artist and his audience) Waters refused and the band began to splinter. Roger went into production on the movie which was released less than a year after the tour ended. They began working on the follow up in 1982 and immediately arguments arose between Waters and Gilmour, who felt that the album should include all new material, rather than recycle songs passed over for The Wall. Waters felt that Gilmour had contributed little to the band's lyrical repertoire. (Maybe David should have pointed out Roger's lack of epic soaring guitar solos at that point). David asked Roger to wait a little to give him time to write some new songs for the album and Roger again remained stubborn about that refusing to delay the album for David. The Final Cut is more of a Waters solo album with studio musicians playing on a large bit of the album. Four of the songs don't even have Gilmour playing on them and five of them without Nick. Richard has been ousted from the band already and the keyboards are played by a combination of Michael Kaman and Andy Bown.

[@godetonter4764]

Immolation would easily have been as big as Cannibal Corpse, Deicide, Suffocation, Death, Obituary, and Morbid Angel if there weren't 5 years between Dawn of Possession and Here in After. 1992 was a huge year for Death Metal, by 1996 people were already starting to gravitate towards Black Metal and Nu Metal. Unfortunately Immolation missed the primary years of Death Metal popularity. I have no doubt Immolation - Here in After would have made them the most popular Death Metal band if it would have immediately followed up their debut album. They were as Heavy, complicated enough, intelligent lyrics, really memorable songs, and a Vocalist that was easy to understand, and even included Vocal hooks. I have always been amazed by the fact Here in After didn't become the biggest selling Death Metal album of all time, because it had everything a Death Metal fan could hope for in an album. I just think that the timing was bad. For album release that is, music wise the timing was impeccable

[@tommullin5154]

Great discussion. I really enjoyed this one because that transition from 70s sound to the 80s sound is interesting. Which way are these bands going to go with their sound? Some are actual 'artists' concerned about the material they release, that are successful and then can take a while to put out new material (and this is OK with them). While some others would have been best off just to crank out another one like that last one really quick and keep touring/selling/recording. We look back on it and can see how it went or how we would have taken it, but if you were in the midst of it at the time... would you really have that clarity to move ahead? Some can have that clarity... I think most cannot.

[@toddhill7483]

I immediately thought of Boston when I saw your topic. The phrase "what could have been" applies. King Crimson did not have a studio release for about 7 years after Red, albeit they had a long string of fabulous albums to that point. Although Discipline was a great album with a few lineup changes, the band "missed out" on the back half of the 70s.

[@davidl570]

Dire Straits waiting 6 years between albums comes to mind: Brothers In Arms (1985) went multiplatinum but On Every Street (1991) barely went platinum (and they disbanded a few years after that).

[@johnnycto7576]

That's a shame. I just love On Every Street.

[@davidl570]

@@johnnycto7576 Me too! Would actually go so far as to say I think it's even better than Brothers (which I love, with the exception of a few songs).

[@brianreaney1518]

It doesn't always work like that the eagles took 29 years between studio albums yet long road out of Eden sold millions and was apparently the most successful album the world over in 2007 this album gets a lot of flack even from fans but I think it's criminally underrated I guess the eagles may be the exception to the.rule that time blunts success al though I'm sure there are others

[@steevenfrost]

Sometimes it's the record label delaying releasing an album that's the issue. This happened to a U.K. band called The End who made a brilliant psychedelic album called "introspection, which was released 18 months after it should have been because psychedelia had been over by a year( November 1969) and wasn't a big seller. It was even produced by Bill Wyman of the Stones who even co-wrote one song "Shades Of Orange". it even had one of the best psychedelic tracks called "Cardboard Watch".

[@b.g.5869]

Interesting; I'll definitely check it out. But psychedelia was definitely not over for a year in November of 1969. That's just 4 months after Woodstock; Pink Floyd released Umma Gumma in November of 1969 for crisakes.

[@johnryan3913]

Yup, The End album is a psych treasure. The Wyman written 'Shades of Orange' would have fit in great on 'Satanic' which is imo a great Stones album.

[@johnryan3913]

@@b.g.5869 But it (The End) is more like the baroque psych of early Floyd than Ummagumma. By late 69 Creedence, The Band, Delaney & Bonnie had been out and getting back to your roots was in the air.

[@b.g.5869]

@@johnryan3913 I agree with you regarding Satanic Majesties. I think it's a great album. It's often kneejerkedly dismissed as a Sgt Pepper ripoff; whether that was the intention or not, I think it's much better than Sgt Pepper (I love The Beatles but think Pepper is extremely overrated).

[@b.g.5869]

@@johnryan3913👍 I'll definitely check it out.

[@nikolademitri731]

“It was long ago, and it was far away, and it was so much better than it is today”.. seems quite fitting for this entire episode, and works even better with Pete’s pick at the end there. Really cool episode idea, I hope yinz do this again. 🤘✌️❤️♾

[@Danimal77]

Pink Floyd played 18 dates for the Wall in 1980. They played 7 dates in Los Angeles in Feb. 1980, 5 dates in New York in Feb. 1980, and then the final 6 half a year later in London, England in Aug. 1980.

[@jeffreyheise3377]

You really have to be in a great band to put out music every year. No egos. Just think of how hard that is. The older bands had a job they liked, and always went to work. New artists just want to be celebrities. That's why we don't have a lot of new bands that stay together very long.

[@adamsasso1]

I’ve commented on a few SoT videos that music in the early 80s was dominated by MTV. Here’s an idea for a show: Bands/Artists that MTV really helped gain mega-sales of albums, and some acts that maybe were hurt by the presence of MTV (either they didn’t make videos or they were bad or not photogenic or whatever). That would be interesting.

[@H1JOSH1]

That's a great idea

[@kevinturchin]

An interesting follow-up would be bands where time off was a good thing. Maybe they came back refreshed and wither a better album, etc.

[@docvader82]

Another great video guys. Oh, by the way, I saw you both on the Reelz thing on TV about Whitesnake. Big congratulations fellas. That was absolutely awesome. You're both great guys, super knowledgeable, passionate about music........ that was so well deserved. I hope you both continue to blow up.

[@flazjsg]

Hi Pete, I have a show idea: How about songs that forever changed the musical landscape after they were released? They could be obscure songs or popular ones, but we all know that there are some very influential songs (the most obvious being "Stairway to Heaven" - in which case every band had to record their own similar light to heavy masterpiece.)

[@danielwolski873]

Child in Time by Deep Purple came out before Stairway.

[@747jono]

Fantastic show guys as always. Awesome choices 👌

[@Jeffrey519]

Great discussion on Down. The 1st album is great. I still listen to it, but I almost forgot how much excitement there was around them back then. How big they could have been. The follow-up took so long and was such a disappointment. The 3rd album was a return to form and the EP's are really good (Although I agree with Martin that EP's are annoying), but the excitement was long gone by then.

[@bryanmcfadden4071]

They're back again after all

[@scottwalker5275]

YES PETE. Ranking The Cult. Been waiting a year for this ranking. On the concept of the show I would say GNR taking 10 yrs for a new album , along with Axel being an ass, really screwed their career. They were HUGE back then and could have stayed there for a long time. Jane’s Addiction I think is another band.

[@rodsmolter5046]

Always thought Electric was far and away their best album.

[@jaysonraphaelmurdock8812]

I won't argue that but I really like Ceremony.

[@gabriellealdeoliveira2413]

A band that came to my mind was Crimson Glory. In 2000, during the 'Astronomica' tour, they suddenly broke up. Then in 2005, Midnight reappeared from the ashes, and rejoined CG. They were actually planning to do another album and/or re-record the 'Astronomica' vocals, but everything fell apart when their label, Black Lotus, went bankrupt. So, I think it was a bad timing indeed. Source: kzbin.info/www/bejne/o3PTdKmgrc16n9k

[@AndDeathForAll82]

Evergrey releasing a new album a year after ‘Escape of the Phoenix’ is so unusual for 2022. They’re one of the very few bands operating on that 70s/early 80s release schedule.

[@jcollins1305]

Great video and topic! Really enjoyed the list. I imagine it’s a delicate balancing act between striking while the iron is hot, and rushing a poor album out just to keep the momentum going.

[@Mrceegeebee]

I happen to believe that The Cult's electric is one of the best rock albums ever made.

[@Danimal77]

The Cult is one of my favorite bands of all time. Every album of theirs is so amazing and so underrated (outside of Electric and Love to a certain extent). Most people think they fell off the face of the earth after 1991 (with Ceremony), but that is far from the truth.

[@chattingesque372]

If we are talking debut albums: Nada Surf, Kelli Ali, Babylon Zoo, Mary Weiss, OMC, off the top of my head... If we are talking sophomore albums and beyong: t.A.T.u, Babes in Toyland, Urge Overkill, Blind Melon, The Prodigy (fat of the land), Michael Jackson (Invincible), Marilyn Manson (Eat me, Drink me), Dinosaur Jr (Hand it Over), Jesus Jones (Already), Cyndi Lauper (True Colors), just off the top of my head

[@orangeeye13]

I was in college at the time that the new Cult album came out. I was extremely familiar with the catalogue at the time. I was really surprised that that 1994 did not do better than it did. The production and quality of songs were and still are some of their best works. I am talking about 25:00 minutes into this show and video here.

[@MartyMurray]

I saw The Cult at the Skydome in Toronto, with opening act Bonham. Both bands were great, and The Cult kicked ass, but Astbury definitely had an attitude. At one point he yells out, "Who's here from Hamilton?" A bunch of people yell out in answer, to which he replies, "Hamilton effing sucks!" Wow, that's a really great way to win over an audience from a place where you used to live, who were there as fans for that very reason. That was the Sonic Temple tour, and their drummer for that tour was Matt Sorum. I saw Boston live twice, once at Maple Leaf Gardens on their very first tour, and then in 2015 at the casino here in the Falls, and they are a great live band, for sure. I'm glad I got to see them with Brad Delp. The new singer is "almost" as good, but he doesn't have Brad's power on the high notes. Tom is still Tom. An amazing musician, who is actually more dazzling on the organ than he is on the guitar, and he's in his 70's now. That show at the casino was truly epic.

[@timbass1313]

Good show...surprised no-one mentioned Guns N Roses and the gap between the Illusions albums and Chinese Democracy. You could probably also make the same argument for Motley Crue with the gap between Dr. Feelgood and the '94 album.

[@Rocker1983]

I thought the same thing.

[@ilj1259]

1)The Cars Hearbeat City 1984 4x Platinum to Door To Door 1987 only went Gold. 2)Bad Company Desolation Angels 1979 2x Platinum to Rough Diamonds 1982 did not certify. 3)Foreigner Inside Information 1987 Platinum to 1991 Unusual Heat did not certify. 4) Inxs Kick 1987 6x Platinum to X 1990 2x Platinum

[@godetonter4764]

Angel Witch was the first band that I thought of also . Cirith Ungol released their debut in 1981 , then didn't release a follow up album until 1984. Witchfynde really could have been bigger, if 1980 sophomore release Stagefright didn't have so many pop type songs, and released an album in 1981 instead of waiting until 1983

[@rogersmith2617]

Tom Scholtz made a ton of money off of the rockman effect and power soak. The biggest sin with Boston by not having more albums is we didn't hear Brad Delp's voice more than we did. Boston had the perfect voice, but Tom couldn't get out of his own head to just be a rock band, not a perfect symphony.

[@chrisstory563]

he's like George Lucas. the man is a total perfectionist.

[@Mark-fk3ei]

If you want to hear Brad's voice he was on the Barry Goudreau solo, Orion the hunter another goudreau band. RTZ great album and the last album called Delp and Goudreau. You can also find him as the singer in the band beatlejuice. His vocals are incredible. He could sound like all three Beatles. The last single he recorded with goudreau is called rockin away. It's sounds like a Boston song.

[@rEdf196]

I remember reading a prophetic quote from an album critique of Boston's 1994 Walk On. "We'll see the next new release in another 8 years".

[@patrickmurphy1803]

Big shout out to MARTIN I just got his book RUSH ,ALBUM BY ALBUM ITS FANTASTIC,MY FRIDAY EVENING WILL BE A FEW BEERS LISTENING TO RUSH CDS AND READING ABIUT THEM IN THIS BEAUTIFULLY INFORMATIVE BOOK

[@martinkulkarni3569]

Great book by Martin. I also bought a Queen based reference book from him! Great author.

[@MartinPopoff]

Thanks guys - yes, that was an interesting series. Did five of those. Just me and a panel discussing each album.

[@Ianmackable]

Steely Dan were about a year late in following up Aja. By the time Gaucho came out, most people had moved on.

[@keithleeuwen877]

But enough hung around ?

[@Ianmackable]

@@keithleeuwen877 Sure. And over the long haul, Gaucho pretty much caught up. That's often how it is with greatness. Also, it's worth remembering that Fagen's first solo album probably did better with the Dan's fan base than Gaucho had. I'm not so sure about the two "comeback" albums, though...

[@rjc7289]

I think about Roxy Blue's "Want Some?" album that was released in 1992, and had it been released a few years earlier before the grunge explosion, it could've been huge.

[@patriceleformal3047]

Hello from Brittany (West of France); completing your interesting topic i'd like to mention The Stone Roses, english band from Manchester : 1989, first and amazing album , great success in their country and Europe, fantastic songs ("i wanna be adored", "made of stone", "i am the resurrection, "Waterfall"...)....and then drugs problems, tension in the band, juridic issues withe their record label (Silvertone) till 1994 with the release of "Second coming", five years (thank you Bowie) after the masterpiece : except "Love spreads" the single, this album is a perfect disaster. too bad. And thank you Pete and Martin for your epic battles.

[@evertoncazzo]

Interesting thoughts, Monsieur Patrice. But I do not agree that Second Coming is so bad... It was not so well put together, but there are some good moments, such as Going south, Ten storey love song and Love spreads. But throughout the álbum, the Zeppelinian riffs really did not mix well with the groove and it did not work out.

[@johnw706]

Great picks for this topic . Very entertaining . Thanks !

[@andrewcox904]

Thanks for this episode. Keep up the good work.

[@gilesglossop5071]

It's interesting because "Dead Ringer" LP was a massive hit in the UK, and I always presumed it had the same effect in the States. I think you're both right in the opinion that the general US public regarded it as belonging to a period of rock that had now definitely passed, but the UK saw it as another exciting release from America and responded accordingly. All these years later, listening to it just as an old rock record, it really stands up to the original - it's just as epic, far reaching and heroic. Quality album. It all went to shit after this, mind.

[@svsugvcarter]

Topic Idea: Bands with the coolest Tour Theme. Consider the stage theatrics and advertising imagery.

[@ericporter344]

Fun topic Pete & Martin Marillion has that loyalty where the fans keep coming back, almost 6 years between "An Hour Before It's Dark" and "FEAR".

[@Jamie.Laszlo]

Oh...Guns N Roses with Chinese Democracy or sure. "The most anticipated album ever" became "The biggest dud of an album" real fast.

[@rodsmolter5046]

It's actually a pretty decent album IMO but yeah the long wait and the fact it's just Axl and a bunch of replacement guys who are actually really good players but still. it's not really GnR.

[@Vortigan07]

I'll always have a soft spot for Chinese Democracy, if only because it brought me to the genius of Buckethead!

[@iancocks9408]

It’s the axl rose solo album isn’t it?. No other illusion tour members left and took so many years to make and I have to say I don’t like one song on it. I love guns n roses other stuff but they clearly wrote awesome songs and average songs on all albums with slash.

[@janpoelkamp4229]

11:14 Imagine if they would’ve toured The Wall any longer, well, that would’ve been the end for Pink Floyd. The whole spectacle was financed by the band itself and they lost tons and tons of money, even with the tour being as successful as it was. The ticket sales didn’t weigh up against all the costs involved. It was a millstone around their necks.

[@curlessmania4708]

The first thing I thought of when I saw the title of the episode was Yes….I was waiting for that follow up from 90125 for what seemed like forever. Then FINALLY Big Generator comes out IN 87 and it was a bit disappointing. But I saw the tour and the concert was great

[@blorthalf7561]

Great show again guys!. Good points with all of your choices ...also remember the internal strife in the bands like Floyd and Supertramp at the time of their delays did not help the groups flourish either

[@Matt-fs1yy]

Great topic. Eric Johnson had a window of opportunity to build on the success of "Ah Via Musicom," but waited way too long to put out "Venus Isle" and killed his momentum.

[@b.g.5869]

I think what Pete said about brand loyalty is definitely true; it's what kept a lot of bands that were in my opinion well past their sell by date going for years (The Rolling Stones, Ozzy, Rush, Paul McCartney, U2, and on and on). Of course there are genuine fans of the latter day albums of the artists I've mentioned but I think for most, they originally fell in love with the band because they loved their music, and later they 'like' their music (or more accurately, _try_ to like their music) because they love the band. Of course it's a bit more complicated than this inasmuch as all of those groups have or had a large back catalog to please fans in concert.

[@mikewest1542]

Great topic, I can think of Peter Gabriel , Kate Bush , The Who, Emerson Lake & Palmer ,David Bowie the list is endless!

[@gregpahl7326]

The excrutiatingly long wait between Yes albums that had both Steve Howe and Chris Squire and not Jon Anderson after the amazing Drama album The Peter Gabriel gap(although I had alot of nights tripping out to Last Temptation) and the post Test for echo hiatus(although the timing was just right) are a close tie for second

[@kamranmalik8546]

1. Guns 'n' Roses 2. Boston

[@bmardon2112]

Absolutely Kamran

[@terrencereardon6374]

Supertramp did release a live album with Paris to keep fans tide over until the next album. Also Roger Hodgson and his wife at the time had their second child after Paris was released.

[@747jono]

Already looking forward to next weeks show Take care guys.

[@stephenbrown4211]

I would go with Dire Straits, Brothers In Arms was a massive commercial album, with a massive sellout tour, riding on the back of the new media that was CD. Then waited six years for On Every Street. Yes it was a success and the tour was big but lost a lot of following, probably due to the length of time between albums and Mark getting jazzy and rootsy, so was as commercial to the casual fan. I mean, we still hear Walk of Life on the radio but when was the last time you heard Calling Elvis?

[@maddysmith8846]

I remember there was such high anticipation as well but somewhere in those 6 years the mojo seemed to have become lost. Those first 5 albums, all classics, a great run.

[@mickb44]

never liked that album boring no wonder they split soon after

[@Nasamike]

As a Supertramp fan, I completely agree with Pete's assessment! "Famous Last Words" was such a disappointment, and it was the end of the band. Still, in my book, nothing can compare with four classic albums in a row: Crime, Crisis, Moments & Breakfast!

[@christophernaughton6629]

I liked "...famous last words..." a lot... they may have waited too long, but there was good/great music on the LP... "It's Raining Again" was a hit and cuts like "C'est le Bon," "Don't Leave Me Now" and "Know Who You Are" I believe would fit on any Supertramp LP. It was more about the distance between Roger Hodgson and Rick Davies that led to their demise. And even they admit that on this album, unlike the others, they went into the corner and produced their own songs by themselves...

[@micolsen9824]

I prefer FLW. And it did get airplay,Pete.

[@pjtheory]

Pete, stating that Water's solo career was "successful" whereas the Gilmour led Pink Floyd was only "fairly successful" is simply absurd. Heck, in terms of record sales, Gilmour's solo career was more successful than Waters. The FACTS are that in the United States alone, A Momentary Lapse Of Reason sold over 4 million copies and the Division Bell sold over 3 million copies. I won't even get into the worldwide sales figures of those 2 underrated albums, but I will point out that the tours to support those 2 Pink Floyd albums were massive. If memory serves, those 2 tours ranked among the Top 3 highest grossing music tours of 87-88 and 94-95. Those 2 Pink Floyd records also provided further proof of who (e.g., David Gilmour) was the melodic/musical backbone of this iconic band. It's interesting to note that prior to recording The Final Cut, Gilmour asked Waters why the album was comprised of songs that were not good enough to be included on The Wall? Despite being relegated to a hired gun (e.g., 1 lead vocal, lead guitarist on a handful of tracks) on The Final Cut, Gilmour belted it out on Not Now John, and he put his heart and soul into his guitar solos.

[@adamsmashups4839]

One of my favorite songwriter/musicians is Thomas Dolby.But the gaps between albums is so damn long.I don't even know if we will ever get another album from him.It seems very unlikely since he is now a professor.I remember reading in Keyboard Magazine album,when Aliens Ate My Buick was released he was asked if we would have to wait another 4 years for the next album..Yes,we did have to wait another 4 years.We did get Gate to The Minds Eye two years later,though its really a soundtrack.Than finally in 2011,we got A Map of the Floating City,and nothing new since.

[@jeffreywebb7932]

I hate EPs too.I buy em,cause ya gotta,but yeah,just finish the album.Great vid,as usual.🤘👍Obscure albums,next week Hellyeah🙂

[@mr.jamesvincent3519]

How about "Widowmaker" ? Dee Snider & company missed the boat by about three years. The two Widowmaker albums are really really good but, unfortunately, the timing was off and by the time they released those albums in the early - mid 90's, that type of Heavy Metal was being surpassed by the Grunge movement and the band was kaput before they even had a chance to become the household name that they could have been. In my opinion, Widowmaker was just as good, if not better than Twisted Sister.

[@lobbymccawker2083]

Idea for a show. Bands that should have been huge but weren't. Examples Balaam and The Angel, Budgie, Lonestar, Nutz etc.

[@Walesktf]

Budgie and Lone Star were the best two bands that came from Wales, Both should have been massive

[@ronbo11]

@@Walesktf Badfinger weren't too bad hailing from Swansea.

[@ronbo11]

I caught Balaam & the Angel at a free concert in Dallas' West End in 88. They were touring their "Live Free of Die" LP. It was a fun show and I really enjoyed that album.

[@tomsuzyinfluencerinfj2712]

Pink Floyd: I saw The Wall in Dortmund, Germany, 18 Feb. 1981...still got the ticket

[@Nitramessahc]

Tears for Fears The seeds of love. 4 years after Songs from the Big Chair, it basically had become the Orzabal thing.

[@tondo9]

The Wall was performed in the US at Nassau Coliseum and LA's The Forum.

[@kimberlywalker3970]

I agree w/some of the usual suspects you guys chose, Boston in particular. The bands I've chosen are my three favorites and they waited a similar amount of time between albums w/different results. INXS: They released their super successful album, Kick, in 1987. Three years later, they released their follow-up album, X. Kick had for top ten hits, including their first and only #1 hit, Need You Tonight. They squeezed out two more top ten hits w/X: Suicide Blonde and Disappear. X went double platinum, but it sold a fraction of what Kick sold. I think part of the problem was they should've released it a year earlier while they were riding high on their success. I also think it sounded a little similar to Kick but, it wasn't nearly as dynamic. Don't get me wrong, it's one of my favorites but, it paled in comparison to what fans were used to from them. U2: They released Rattle and Hum in 1988. Three years later, they released Achtung Baby. It sold far more copies than Rattle and Hum but sold less than The Joshua Tree. However, I think its unique sound set them up for its prolific streak in the 90s. According to some fans, like me, this is their best album. Led Zeppelin: Most of us know their story. They released Presence in 1976, their poorest selling album in the Zeppelin catalog. Three years later, they, unfortunately, released their final album, In Through The Out Door. It sold way more copies than Presence but it underperformed unlike many of their previous albums. However, it's the album in their catalog fans old and new are giving a second look. It's third for me only to Led Zeppelin IV and Physical Graffiti as my favorite Zeppelin album. I'll also say it was the last and hardest for me to find when it came to buying all their remasters if that tells you anything?!

[@markr.devereux3385]

Wow ANGEL WITCH? YOU are the man. ANGEL OF DEATH was the heaviest track I had heard in a long time. That's still on my playlist.

[@domielakrabi3276]

Cool show again! Ad. Cult - I prefer the early albums, where they had some unique dark sound and style, nevertheless "Sonic Temple" is TMO their peak they never reached again. A ranking of the Cult albums would be great! Def Leppard - Adrenalize could fit into this category, it's the follower of Hysteria but came out five years later, when grunge took over.

[@douglasborgstrom2023]

I have always felt a young band just signed to a label should always hold back two or three of thier best songs for thier second release. You write enough material, and regardles of what the record company wants, you keep a few gems shelved so you can have that same fire in your next lp. It is a risky move, but it makes a lot of business sense. Just my thoughts

[@taker68]

The Wall shows were in LA, NY, London and Dortmund, West Germany. I lived in the Boston area in the 80s and that 3rd album was huge there and they sold out the Worcester Centrum for something like 9 dates in a row (the Boston Garden was not big for rock bands then due to no AC, sports getting in the way, high fees). Everyone was happy to have them back. Why is Extraterrestrial Live not liked? It was my first BOC purchase and one of my favorites. I prefer many of the live versions of their songs to the studio versions. I feel the albums after that lost what they had in the 70s.

[@mahogany174]

On the flip side the gap between Tool’s albums are ridiculous but they are still hugely popular. Perhaps it’s because their evolution over those albums is so impressive. I think you are absolutely right about how people listen to music, Pete. I am like you in that if I like a band I will go into their catalogue and look for future releases but the general public generally seem to pick up bands for an album or two and then move on. So you get huge ‘hit’ albums that totally outsells anything else the band does. I think it’s called jumping on the bandwagon.

[@franciskocher200]

Super vidéo.Merci les gars.😀👍🙏

[@carlosvila77]

As far as I remember, Boston did not make any videos for Third Stage. Being 1986, they would had sold even more albums if they had made them.

[@SPak-rt2gb]

ELP: Works, what was it 3-5 years to release a so, so album

[@drummer78]

The Who might be an example. Granted they did their “Farewell Tour” in 1982 but they still left open the possibility of recording again after 1982’s “It’s Hard”. Instead of maybe releasing a great album in say 1984/85…they basically hung it up recording wise till “Endless Wire” almost 25 years after “It’s Hard”. I always wish The Who hung in there in the 80’s.

[@terryblake5076]

I saw 3 'last concerts" by The Who. LOL

[@frankrehm3650]

Pete, there is only a one-year gap between "Breakfast in America", and Supertramp's live album, "Paris".

[@LarryFleetwood8675]

Also, Famous Last Words was a pretty big seller as I recall. I'm not sure about US radio/charts at the time, but everywhere else at least "It's Raining Again" was a monster hit for them its sax solo is legendary.

[@frankrehm3650]

Supertramp remained a great band till 1985, when they released, "Brother Where You Bound".

[@LarryFleetwood8675]

@@frankrehm3650 Yes, they were still huge in markets like Germany in the '80s.

[@thatdannykelly4503]

He was never going to be a mainstream commercial success, but Uli Jon Roth's inactivity(no releases between 1986-1990) in terms of releasing albums pushed him into borderline obscurity in an era where his acolytes like Yngwie were reaping the benefits. And Cry of Love certainly got lost in the shuffle by not releasing a sophomore effort until 1997.