Seas C18EN002 (Live Review)

Link to driver:
www.madisoundspeakerstore.com...
Link to data. This contains the impedance phase/magnitude as well as 0/15/30/45/60 for both the midrange and the tweeter. You'll surely have to alter the output to get it in a format for whatever program you use. But if you can use a crossover program I'm pretty sure you can figure out what to do with this data to get it loaded in there. 😉
www.dropbox.com/s/idkij2g4rcf...
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All of my tests are conducted using KLIPPEL Hardware and Software. KLIPPEL is an innovative leader in providing unique test equipment for electro-acoustical transducers and audio systems. Founded in 1997 by Dr. Wolfgang Klippel, the novel techniques developed for control and measurement systems of loudspeakers and other transducers are the result of over 30 years of fundamental research. This provides more accurate physical models of loudspeakers, micro-speakers and headphones valid for both small and large amplitudes. The focus is on revealing the root causes of signal distortion and defects and giving practical indications for improvements in design and manufacturing of audio products. For information on KLIPPEL products, please visit their site below:
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[@Clobercow1]

I'm thankful for any content. Polished or not! Great review!

[@SuperMcgenius]

Hi Erin, I wish DSP was around back in the 80’s and 90’s when I was doing many DIY speakers. Making passive x-over’s was very hard to get it right. All engineering choices are compromise, just pick your poison😂

[@GadgetyMV]

Thank you for this excellent and concise measurement based review with hands on suggestions. Somehow I wish more of this information was supplied by the manufacturer, thus enabling the DIY-er, specially at this price.

[@MrPolaris800crew]

I wish you started making more Subwoofer reviews since u are the only person that actually shows data and tells you if its good or bad. Keep it up

[@ErinsAudioCorner]

Dude, I wish I had time to do all the things I want to do. And that includes subs. I’ve got a laundry list of videos and reviews I want to make. Not enough hours in the day. Maybe one day when I retire… 😅

[@tktran303]

Thanks Erin. Very useful info.

[@ErinsAudioCorner]

Glad it was helpful!

[@JM-ib9kb]

Thanks for the test. Sure would like to see some data on one of Ryan Bouma's faves, the Eminence Delta-10A.

[@Clobercow1]

That peak is no problem for a notch plus a 2nd order filter, or just a 3rd order filter. Certainly workable.

[@proffessasvids]

Excellent vid there dude xx

[@Xmvw2X]

I haven't used a Seas woofer in a coupe decades, always wondered how good their coaxials were, although I'm more curious about the Tangband coaxials. It's a unique market space because home audio doesn't play with coaxials much. It's almost exclusively the car audio market.

[@IrenESorius]

Thanks Erin,, 🍻😎👍‍‍!

[@ErinsAudioCorner]

Yessir!

[@grewk2518]

i absolutely love this format. Just need a heads up for when you do it

[@ErinsAudioCorner]

Cool. This one was completely impromptu. Was sitting at the computer about to start filming and decided to just do it live.

[@SoundAround-gr2xi]

Above 9kHz on cca.84dB, uups NOK. Seems that only KEF understand that you must put big bass voice coil to get bigger stationary surface on tweeter to get better tweeter radiation .

[@basukisugito8929]

I been thinking of many of Seas coaxial drivers and wonder if the tweeter really keeping up with the quality the woofer is. It is not easy make a good tweeter in that small space. I hear clearly tweeter with back cavity sounds better than tweeter without. Most cheaper tweeter has no back cavity.

[@JoelHernandez-tz3vk]

Wonder if I'd prefer Zaph Audio's DIY L18RNX/P+27TBFC/G speaker though.

[@mndlessdrwer]

If you want an interesting and inexpensive woofer to test, try to get your hands on a 6.5" Silver Flute woofer. They're honestly really great speakers at any price, but particularly at their price, which is around $30 a driver. I personally think they pair well with the Vifa derived XT25 line of dual ring radiator tweeters, though you'll need to select your impedance carefully as those tweeters are considerably sensitive and it's really easy to end up with a speaker that is treble heavy if you don't match them well.

[@ErinsAudioCorner]

Funny enough, I ordered that and a cheap SB woofer over the weekend.

[@mndlessdrwer]

@@ErinsAudioCorner Then you should be in for a pleasant surprise and hopefully we'll get a video about it sometime. The Silver Flute are definitely woofers and not full-range capable, but they reach shockingly low without much effort and they can play competently to around 3.5kHz if necessary, so pairing them with tweeters just becomes a matter of which ones you like best. Apparently Madisound Speaker Store now also has an 8" variant that I don't recall seeing before and it has some pretty impressive claimed efficiency.

[@machoheadgames8854]

The high 3rd and 5th order distortion is from the metal cone breakup.

[@ErinsAudioCorner]

I dunno… I’ve never seen it *that* high and it’s over a very broad range rather than a high or even medium Q bandwidth.

[@tktran303]

If it was it would follow the resonances of the on-axis response. It's throughout the entire usable range of the driver. Apparently there are copper rings in the motor system, so it's very curious the H3/5 are higher than H2/H4... Anyway, I think its a good driver, I dunno about the price or value equation... In a completed system I think KEF have better coaxials... really nothing to complain about with KEF coaxials, except for being unobtainium...

[@wokthetalk3079]

Hello Erin, I don’t think I have the knowledge yet, to build a speaker from scratch but am considering building one from kit form. I see (pardon the pun) you reviewed this SEAS driver, I am wondering if you would consider reviewing a kit that uses this manufacture’s drivers (FU10RB H1600-04 4" Full Range & L16RN-SL H1480 6" Aluminum Cone Woofer) that was designed by Siegfried Linkwitz and sold in the US by Madisound. The open baffle designed ‘LXmini’ full kit seems to be quite reasonably priced at $488/pair USD that is less the active MiniDSP crossover and subwoofer kit. The kit pieces less that drivers is only $135/pr. I very curious about open baffle or di-pole design speakers and looking forward to the promised more 3D imaging and wide sound stage. Also Erin, I would be very interested in your take on active vs passive crossover systems dollar for dollar what sounds better. Can you also do a break down video on some of the miniDSP product devices you are familiar with and suggest best case uses for these items?

[@SuperMcgenius]

Yes , start with a kit and then move forward. It will save time and tears. Have fun, it is just a speaker😊

[@CL-yp1bs]

Going hard in the paint - Waka Flocka

[@ErinsAudioCorner]

Pretty sure he's the first one to use that line, too. 😂

[@ford1546]

the word you are looking for is (flush-mount speaker)?

[@racingpht0]

Hi Great review! Is it possible to get a Klippel BL curve for this midrange driver? Thanks a lot!

[@ErinsAudioCorner]

Not for this one. I just don’t have the time to do that at the moment and the owner is getting the driver this weekend.

[@racingpht0]

@@ErinsAudioCorner Understand. Thanks for the great tests!

[@skandiaart]

This coaxial is actually pretty good as said. The flat surround and the optimized cone shape makes for a pretty good design combined with the only midrange duties, I don't really get why other seas coaxial are so extremely bad, like the c16.... very strange as they show with this one that they know how to make them proper lol. I am pretty sure there is nothing better, maybe a replacement kef driver but you can't really buy better, the pa ones are the worst and make for a bad rep for coaxials. Would love to know how the distortion would be with a passive lcr and crossover, I guess some distortion bleeds in to the 2k area from the cone breakup.

[@emmet7208]

Beautiful driver, but expensive!

[@ford1546]

A bit disappointed with Seas. The speaker didn't measure that well I think. The standard for measurements is -3db 1watt

[@murraywebster1228]

Do you ever measure with lp/hp filters?

[@ErinsAudioCorner]

Not for drivers. Defeats the purpose.

[@murraywebster1228]

@@ErinsAudioCorner why? It would show the actual THD and power performance for a realistic use case, I used to build large systems for concerts and performance figures were only relevant pre to see working range, filtered performance figures gave a better real use case scenario, removing excess high and low frequency information made a radical difference in system planning

[@anandshah71]

Erin please can you review peerless XLS 10 and STW 350 sub drivers and seas 10” sub driver that is their flagship used in lx521

[@ErinsAudioCorner]

If you or someone wants to send one to me to test, I can arrange it.

[@anandshah71]

@@ErinsAudioCorner if I would live in USA would had surely sent I live in India

[@homeboi808]

Is it pronounced like the ocean seas? I heard some pronounce it “see-as”. All these Scandinavian brands make things confusing. I still don’t know if Arendal is “Uh-reen-dal” , “Uh-ren-dal”, or “Aaron-dal”.

[@ErinsAudioCorner]

I've heard it both ways. Probably the latter since it's an overseas company and we never get the names right here in the States. Though, it's immaterial to the performance of the speaker... unless someone is making a phone order and there is a competing company with the name Sees or Seas (like the ocean). 😀

[@ErinsAudioCorner]

Yea, I still don't know about Arendal, either. I always just blame it on me being from the south... but I'm gonna have to come up with a better excuse than that, I believe. :D

[@ragnarpadar3647]

I dont think it really matters how you pronunce internationally. Here in Scandinavia we spell it see-as and uh-ren-dal. Love from Sweden. 🇸🇪

[@hepphepps8356]

Latest reply on earth, but think of the e as eh, and the a as ah, like at the dentist. Wide mouth and round mouth. 2 very distinctly different wovels. Seh-ahs. Arendal is a bit difficult, if you try to do it as the locals (within the town) it’s a very peculiar dialect. I think the easiesr correct pronounciation for an english speaker would be something like ahrn-dahl.

[@abdo-dr1tu]

Hi Erin, I don’t see the data on your website yet I hope you upload it soon.

[@thibaudyoutbe]

looks like this guy is quite happy with this driver in his kit: kzbin.info/www/bejne/kICtead_lsiDpK8

[@ford1546]

I don't know how familiar you are with SEAS speakers? I grew up with SEAS around me since SEAS is Norwegian and I am Norwegian and since the store where I bought speaker components sold SEAS. I have built speakers out of SEAS speakers and my friend has also done it. I would say that SEAS is not more HIGHEND than other speakers if you listen to the sound out of them. SEAS is NOT very good at making speaker crossovers. The speaker kit they sell doesn't sound so good with the original SEAS crossover! SEAS is too expensive if you look at what you get. Therefore, not many people buy SEAS!

[@anandshah71]

I am not interested in this driver cause I will use a FAST spesker configuration Or a Purifi with Viawave tweeter

[@skandiaart]

I would greatly suggest this driver over a fast setup, there will be no full range that gets comparable highs to a driver with a tweeter, in my opinion at least, having heard voxative, cabasse, ead etc. There in my eyes are too much compromises in a fr too neglect it for a coaxial if possible. Off axis of the fast will also be meh at best unless you choose a small one which in return will have distortion in the low and mid frequencies. Which then would require a higher crossover point thus making it not possible to construct a pseudo point source anymore.

[@menneskeeter]

Hi Erin I love your videos, thanks for doing all this great work! The name Seas is short for Scandinavian Electro Acoustic Systems, meaning it is not pronounced like seas (as in waterbodies), but more like your second attempt. It is likely that the rise in distortion towards higher mids may be caused by the cone behavior. As you have the break up being the second mode of the cone, the first mode is what causes the dip around 3kHz. The mechanical mode does not hit exactly at the dip as the dip is caused by the outer and inner part of the cone being out of phase, so the dip occurs where the area of the inner and outer part of the cone being most similar in size, while the actual mechanical resonance appear a bit offset from that, at a point where the mass of the outer and inner part matches causing the highest possible Q. There is a brilliant article about this topic on Sigfried Linkwitz old webpage: www.linkwitzlab.com/frontiers-2-M2.htm I am also tempted to point out that there is a significant difference between how the cone on a BMS driver (with a compression driver in the back) and how the cone of a coaxial with a dome affects the dispersion. The top end of a coaxial with dome is mostly down to the dome itself, while in the coaxial with compression driver, normally starting with a planar wavefront, the way the wavefront is transformed from planar to curved is critical. Typically if you make a deeper coaxial with a compression driver it is easier to get the top end to match the rest and you can actually get slightly better dispersion in the top end, while for a coaxial with dome it is mostly the job of getting the waveguide to match the dome dispersion increasingly towards lower frequencies. A while ago I did some work on doppler effect and what is audible. Off course, the change in shape causes another type of intermodulation distortion, but anyway, by looking for the smallest difference in pitch a trained ear can hear and doing some simple math, I figured out that any cone movement less than around 1m/s is very unlikely to cause any sort of audible doppler effect. Besides that, I think all coaxials that are aimed at bass performance should have the tweeter measured with the cone clamped at x-max inwords and outwards together with the curves with the cone in x=0. With technophile regards!