Sebring Race: 3-Wide into Turn 7 CRASH!!! (6/19/22)

Sebring International Raceway - June 19th, 2022 @ 8:50 AM
3-wide through Turn 7 at Sebring DOES NOT WORK!
Read below and let me know in the comments your thoughts? Who do you think is at fault?
Should the White BMW given up the position?
Was the Red BMW too aggressive?
‪@RushAutoWorks‬ RUSH SR racing in NASA FL ST2 class.
Driver: ‪@AndorTobelem‬
This race is one of ‪@DRIVENASA‬ Florida Regional events. This is Race #2 of 4 scheduled for this weekend. Race #1 had ended after the 2nd lap due to being red flagged because of another car catching on fire. The 2nd race was scheduled for Saturday in the afternoon but due to lightning and heavy rain, Saturday's 2nd race was cancelled.
Sunday's originally schedule two races had been modified by switching out the morning warm-up for a shortened sprint race, which would be Race #2. As there was no warm up and the track being rained on all throughout the night, I took the start of the race much slower than others in order to get heat into the tires and get an idea of track's surface condition (Which can be seen by the loss of positions through Turn 1).
After Turn 1, I slid behind the white BMW E36 #23, which was a GTS3 car. Behind me there was at least 3-4 ST3/GTS3 cars. After half a lap, I can see that the cars behind me were on my rear bumper, looking for any opening to make a pass. After Lap 1, I picked up the pase and I noticed that the white BMW in front of me had equal or slightly better top end than my car but was braking very early, especially into turn 7 & turn 17. Looking at my dash, we were lapping around 2:27's, which is 2-3 seconds slower than what I was averaging / lap. Due to the white BMW's top end, passing in turn 17 would be a bit difficult as he would create a decent lap by the end of the back straight and turn 7 was the corner I would make my move and begin upping my pace to move up the field.
After the 2nd lap, I set up my move going out of turn 5 and through turn 6 by hugging the inside and making my intent to pass very clear & visible. Knowing white BMW was going to brake early, once he started to brake at the bridge, the pass occurred nice & clean. Being on the inside, I had to brake earlier than my normal braking area but it was still much later than the white BMW.
In the braking zone, I noticed on my left hand side that the Red BMW E46, another GTS3 car went deep into the brake zone and also managed to pass on the outside the white BMW. Going through the corner, I noticed the white BMW trying to keep position with the red BMW, keeping the middle line, making turn 7 now 3-wide!!!! Anyone who has raced at Sebring knows that you CAN NOT BE 3-WIDE IN TURN 7!
The red BMW was as wide as possible and it appears that the white BMW did not leave enough room for the red BMW, making contact with the red BMW's rear passenger quarter panel, causing him to spin across the track and slamming directly into the me. This caused me to spin and make a direct head on impact with the concrete barrier, ending my race weekend.
Who do you think is at fault?

[@fredthomas8132]

Will check it out for sure. I’ve been watching and enjoying all of your videos ! Glad to hear the car is mostly ok.

[@timothygould3542]

I'd place more blame on the Red BMW for making it 3 wide. It looks like they came from the furthest back, and they could have let you and the white BMW sort out the corner first. Ultimately, the white BMW got squeezed between you and the Red BMW. It appears that you could have driven more track right after the apex and made more room even though it is not the preferred line. The White BMW also had the option to back out of the 3 wide situation, so I think everyone had some options that could have improved the situation. Glad you and the car did not get hurt too badly.

[@miamigt4922]

Sorry to see your race end like that. Almost looks like the white BMW nudged the rear end of the red BMW enough to get him sideways and then into you, either that or he just shouldn’t have taken the pass there because he went too deep, couldn’t get anywhere near the apex, and just ran out of road. Doubt if you had biased right after the hairpin would have bought you any space to avoid the hit. Not sure why the white BMW left room for the red one on the outside, maybe to protect his space and get the inside line? In any case, the red BMW had no business trying a pass there on the outside with 2 cars let alone 3.

[@AndorTobelem]

Appreciate it man. Being taken out by two other cars having contact and then crashing into me isn’t ideal. In reality, what made it worse is the white BMW driver didn’t even bother coming up to me after the race to speak about it. From other racers, I was told he was on stock brake pads and because of that, he was braking 100m-200m earlier than normal braking point. At turn 7, he was braking at the bridge which almost caught me on the prior laps. I spoke to the red bmw driver in the mandatory ambulance ride back to grid and he said he wasn’t planning on going for a pass there at all. He just got a good line out of turn 5 and he saw me go for the pass on the inside, he went on the outside and braked at his normal braking point which is the first set of cones (400m mark) and since the white bmw broke at the bridge, we’ll before the first set of cones and white bmw was in the middle of the track to make my pass a little bit harder, he simply passed him easily and in his footage, was well cleared off him. He said he was planing on tucking behind me and to try to get me in the next braking zone but then white bmw came out of nowhere and hit his right rear causing him to spin into me. Both of us out. White BMW continued the rest of the race and finished. He also raced the rest of the weekend 🤬

[@bigredracingdog466]

Both you and the red BMW had the right to be where you were, IMO. At 6:23 there looks to be a car-width between you and red which I'm sure is what white saw and he decided to try to drive through it. You are tracking out from the gators at 6:24, but white is tracking out faster and impacts red at 6:25. If red had gone through unimpeded, it looks like he would've straddled the gators and exited 7 side-by-side with you. I set the playback at .25 and ran through it several times. It certainly looks as though red had successfully completed a pass per NASA rule 25.4.1. I think the white Bimmer was far too aggressive and should've backed out and conceded the place per NASA rule 25.4.2 and 25.4.3 as I think red had a right to the line at that point. I'm not sure if you had completed a pass based on the video, but I think you had given sufficient racing room.

[@AndorTobelem]

Thank you for your thorough analysis and I agree with everything you said. If white car just tucked in behind red bmw or myself, the red bmw and myself would have been side by side through Fangio (T8-T9). Hard to see from this camera but from the red BMW’s camera, I was fully cleared of white bmw and so was he. White bmw started to brake at the bridge which is not even considered early…. More dangerous than anything. NASA received all the footage and I never heard of anything resulting from that. Red bmw and myself were stuck paying for all the damages caused by the white bmw, our entire race weekend was over (this was race #1 on Saturday morning of a 4 race weekend) while the white bmw was able to finish this race and continue to race the entire weekend. Note…. White bmw didn’t have the decency to come up to me afterwards and discuss what happened. I didn’t need an apology even though I felt like I, actually WE deserved one, I would of just rather discussed what occurred like man to man.

[@collinthomas6288]

Sorry about the wreck. I can't tell where the red car comes from, it seems like he's trying to take advantage of your pass. It does appear you lose grip mid corner and pushes you wide, yet it seems like you could have not got on the throttle quite as hard and stayed right to give room. Regardless it seems like you set off of a chain reaction to where the white car had to also move wide and tags the red car that makes him spin into you. Even if he didn't tag him, the dirt vs track grip for the red car being hard on the power could have been enough to cause him to spin. It seems like the red car made it a tough situation to navigate even if everything went perfectly.

[@shawngherity2586]

Looks to me like the white BMW was already letting the other guy by and the red BMW went too wide maybe dropping into the grass. No reason to try that

[@1speedyGTR]

before watching this I thought racing that type of track car, motorcycle engine small against full size street cars made track cars is a little concerning but whatever, hey you were able to post it so you're feeling okay and as stated in earlier posts cars repairable be careful as possible while having fun.

[@AndorTobelem]

Yeap, have to be careful when running with other larger cars but the car took the car on car contact really well. The concrete wall however did do a bit damage to the front right of the car. Myself, I was perfectly fine. More of a shock right when it happened but that’s racing

[@41BOT]

Would have worked if white BMW driver would have known hot to race.

[@traylorkarttech4432]

No offense but shouldn’t the Rush be quite a bit quicker than thebE36?

[@AndorTobelem]

Depends what the e36 is running. In this race, Rush was around 1-1.5 seconds faster but this is on corners and brakes. Straights the E36 is around the same speed.

[@traylorkarttech4432]

@@AndorTobelem I didn’t say speed. I said quicker. Yeah. I know the BMW would be faster. But quickest is the lap time.

[@AndorTobelem]

@@traylorkarttech4432 during this race weekend, I was around 1-1.5 seconds faster per lap running mid 24’s. That e36 I believe during the race we were around 2:26’s so I had much more pace to pass but wasn’t aggressive enough in the start.

[@marklangren3142]

Passer has the responsibility for a clean pass

[@machdw650]

Looks like the red bmw dropped a wheel in the dirt on the exit of 7 which caused the oversteer to the right. Hate seeing anyone getting taken out of a race but it happens. Nice driving otherwise

[@fredthomas8132]

Hi Andor Man that sucks big time. How was/is the car? ( clearly you seem to be ok thank goodness). Was the steering damaged? I just placed an order and curious how the car handled the off. Hopefully minimal damage and you’re back up and running soon

[@AndorTobelem]

Hey Fred, congratulations on your order. I recommend joining the Rush Owners Facebook group. I have all the pics of the damage there. Overall the car took the impact very well. The impact between the red BMW and my car was surprisingly very minimal. Just a small crack on the rear left panel, which I won't even need to replace. Just some repair work on the fiberglass. The hard impact with the concrete wall however did break a few suspension items from the front right (Lower & Upper A-Arms, steering rod etc.) and the entire front right panel needs replacement. Thankfully one of the beautiful parts of the RUSH SR is that the body panels are modular so I only need to replace the specific panels that were damaged and not the entire front end. Also, the suspension parts do not cost an arm & a leg.

[@DixonDavenport]

@@AndorTobelemhey Andor, I too am looking to pick up an SR but curious about repair costs on an incident like this. I know you listed the components but what did they run you? Thanks

[@AndorTobelem]

@@DixonDavenport total repair cost was around $2,400. How fantastic is that!!? Took me about a week to take everything apart and look over all the parts that were broken / bent, placed order to rush, within a week had a nice crate delivered to the house with all replacement parts. The install was laughable how easy it was and now I have some extra parts from items that I replaced but can still reuse. The beautiful e46 red m3 unfortunately cost I believe 5X that to fix.

[@rfalco627]

Driven and raced here many times. Is it designed for 3 wide? Heck no. Did red car go full send around the outside? Yes. should white car have backed out? Yes. But it was doable in this instance. Some might say you came in too hot and slid at mid corner - so instead of holding your inside line you had to counter steer and came across mid track pinching white car into the red car.

[@bigredracingdog466]

It appears to me red had gotten his full car length entering the turn and therefore had a right to the line.

[@AndorTobelem]

Yeah turn 7 is definitely not meant for 3 wide. 2-wide easily doable, especially with my small car. While I did come in a bit too hot being on the very inside, running a very tight line since the white bmw planted himself in the middle of the track driving defensive (we aren’t even in the same class so trying to defend me from passing is pointless), there was still plenty room for another car to be in the inside, which was supposed to be the red car. The white bmw had no business trying to squeeze in between both of us.

[@veno8mm]

Are you racing with penalty weight? Too much lifting to coast gotta trust your braking is better than most. I'm not sure what size tire you are running... But it just seems that you placed yourself in harms way by not being more aggressive underbreaking.

[@AndorTobelem]

Yes, I have around 35 lbs of weight added. Not much. The biggest restriction is we (Rush Cars) are on Nankang AR-1’s which is a 100tw treaded tire vs everyone else on slicks. I could have definitely been more aggressive under braking. Car then was somewhat new to me so I didn’t fully know how hard I could be on the brakes nor how much turn in speed it could handle but I do agree, because I was less aggressive at the start, I put myself in this situation behind a slower car

[@TheWestAspen]

What is this car? A purpose built race car vs. a modified/production car even being in the same relative time zone is a foreign concept....

[@AndorTobelem]

It’s a Rush SR

[@marklangren3142]

One lap wonder in qualifying?