Secession from the ARP

Рет қаралды 2,083

Ryan Biese

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 40

@herbertseigler8194 5 ай бұрын

Thank you, Ryan. This interview is very helpful in summarizing the current sad & tragic situation of the ARP.

@MarkMiller-h9d 5 ай бұрын

💩

@MarkMiller-h9d 5 ай бұрын

💩

@MatteoJCarr 5 ай бұрын

Abusers and those who protect them often seek to avoid accountability through procedure and technicality. Platforming such men, who also happen to be schismatics, should be reconsidered.

@elijahhoyer8730 5 ай бұрын

Amen

@MarkMiller-h9d 5 ай бұрын

Amen and Amen.

@BadgerBadger2020-zr5ie 5 ай бұрын

Amen and Amen and Amen

@jonathanwilliams8155 5 ай бұрын

Amen, amen, amen, and amen

@PrivatefirstclassJoesephAllen 4 ай бұрын

amen amen amen amen and amen

@BadgerBadger2020-zr5ie 5 ай бұрын

The more I listen to this, the sadder it gets. I genuinely feel sorry for the host who thought he was just going to gain clicks for controversy in the prideful hope of gaining followers. Instead he's found himself living in Proverbs 18:1-2 with the other fools.

@MarkMiller-h9d 5 ай бұрын

🔥🔥🔥🔥

@aarondeboer5018 5 ай бұрын

Viewers should read the 2024 Synod's Index 11 naming the maladministration and bad actors in 2nd presbytery, as well as Andrew Putnam's essay on the tradition and use of the ARP Form of Government, and what the synod actually did. Sadly, this podcast with its distortions, mockery, and pride will stand as a testimony to the very worst attitudes and actions that some in Presbyterianism will devote themselves to. Those victimized by parties in 2nd presbytery and by those who strain out a gnat while swallowing a camel, should rest in the knowledge that vengeance ultimately belongs to the LORD, He will recompense.

@jordanrouden6440 5 ай бұрын

Were men called out for sin in the report at GS? If so, the proper/presbyterian/biblical thing would have been to bring forward formal charges and prosecute. This does NOTHING to address the alleged sin issues. And now men who are/were truly in sin won't receive justice, and those who were unfairly maligned won't have their names vindicated. Do you not see that? Do you not see the danger of going the hasty route vs the slow mechanism of church discipline?

@BadgerBadger2020-zr5ie 5 ай бұрын

@jordanrouden6440 What happened wasn't hasty. Just because you may be ignorant of the multiple year history of the events doesn't mean others acted in haste. The history of this didn't happen in June of 2024. Besides, if these men in the podcast were so worried about justification why flea and illegally create a new denomination?

@jordanrouden6440 5 ай бұрын

@@BadgerBadger2020-zr5ie Seriously. I don't know where my comments are going. I've replied to you like three times now, and every time I go back and look, it isn't there. Are you a member or minister in the ARP? If so, I'd prefer to talk with you in real-time. I'm happy to give you my email address and then we can perhaps set up a time for a call. To clarify, I don't mean hasty as in it just up and happened. I mean hasty as in no consideration for the impact to the receiving presbyteries. I mean hasty as in no thought toward a longer timeframe to allow for planning/logistics and, yes complaints/appeals. I mean hasty as in we bypassed dealing with sin to expedite dissolution.

@BadgerBadger2020-zr5ie 5 ай бұрын

@jordanrouden6440 Catawba Presbytery completed all it's required duties and had a much larger work to do, so not sure where you are hearing it was too much for the receiving bodies.

@jordanrouden6440 5 ай бұрын

@@BadgerBadger2020-zr5ie would you be willing to talk over the phone about any of this? As mentioned in my previous comment, I feel like we are talking past each other.

@jonathanwilliams8155 5 ай бұрын

Important to note that the number of ministers and congregations that left are roughly 3 to 5. Just saying “a number” is misleading.

@PrivatefirstclassJoesephAllen 4 ай бұрын

amen

@aarondeboer5018 4 ай бұрын

At 102:45 Rev Putnam reads verbatim from the current form of government 12.22A, host and guests then accuse him of reading from an old form of government. He used the exact language that the host had on the slide at 104:00. Putnam prefaced his statement saying, "The General Synod has the authority to..." This is the language of the heading in that section, he then went right to that authority as articulated and read 12.22A.

@jordanrouden6440 5 ай бұрын

As a member of a congregation in TN-AL presbytery in the ARP, which is one of the presbyteries that is receiving congregations and ministers from 2nd, I'm so incredibly disheartened by what happened at GS and since then. The GS acted hastily, unwisely, and unpresbyterianly. The lack of concern by the Executive Board (also very unpresbyterian entity), is frustrating. The accusations by the committee of sin on the part of ministers throughout 2nd yet no charges brought forth in order to clear the names of the men accused is absolutely shameful. It's amazing to me that we could, as a denomination, to NOT make a unified stance on women deacons partly for the sake of unity, yet we will obliterate a 200+ yr old presbytery with NO regard for unity. I'll say it again, it's shameful.

@BadgerBadger2020-zr5ie 5 ай бұрын

You have a very wrong understanding not only of the history, but the polity. There are multiple false accusations in this podcast against Rev. Glaser and Rev. Kingswood.

@Lambdamale. 5 ай бұрын

It sounds like your camp is really heavy on literally following the letter of the law.....The GS is less heavy on a literal following of the law. It sounds like GS is more concerned with following the spirit of the law; meaning, they see the laws as a protection for all parties ASSUMING all parties are acting in good faith. Hence, the law was not given in order to allow bad actors to exploit it for their own personal interest. The law then is a guide, not an absolute. The fact that GS stated that 2nd Presbytery is SO corrupt they can't be fixed suggests to me that they see 2nd Presbytery as a group of bad actors who are trying to exploit the laws in bad faith. If I've interpreted this correctly, this explains why they have dismissed your appeals to the technicalities. They see your Presbytery as acting in bad faith. It was explained to me 2nd Presbytery has been operating as some kind of Christian Mafia. Personally, I don't know, don't pay attention really, and don't care. I just tale a pew every Sunday. But I think this is probably the source of your frustration.

@jordanrouden6440 5 ай бұрын

@@Lambdamale. it's not "my camp" nor is it "my presbytery". I'm not in 2nd Presbytery. But I am in one of the presbyteries receiving some of the churches and ministers from 2nd. And I see the impact/stress that they are under to try and examine all of the ministers coming in and properly receive all of the congregations that are coming in 3 months time (we were given 3 months from GS to Sept 1, the date of dissolution). I'm less concerned about the parlimentary conversation and more concerned about the actual document brought forward at GS literally accuses men of sin. What should have happened is we formally charge the specific men with specific sins. That way justice can be had. Either men who truly did sin can be held to account and either repent or potentially ex-communicated, OR their names are vindicated. It's a slower process than what GS opted for, but it is the RIGHT process. It is the Matthew 18 process.

@jordanrouden6440 5 ай бұрын

@@BadgerBadger2020-zr5ie did or did not the report at GS bring forth allegations of sin against several men in 2nd? In fact, the accusations of sin are so widespread as to indirectly indict ALL ministers/elders within 2nd. We should have moved to bring forward formal charges and work through proper/biblical/presbyterian church discipline. How is justice to happen now, on those men who may truly be guilty of sin? How does vindication happen now for those men who were improperly/indirectly accused of sin? The dissolution of 2nd does NOTHING to address the issues of sin. In addition, it is forcing Catawba and TN-AL to receive allegedly disfuctional congregations and ministers/elders who have such grave sin issues. THAT is my great concern. More so than any potential parlimentary issue. This was a HASTY decision. Why 3 months? Why only three months for us to do the hard work of examining ministers? Why not 12? Why not allow for time to work through planning? Through the logistics? And, yes, time for complaints that actually can be heard and not rejected due to nebulous claims of "not an emergency". It should be stated that our documents don't define what an emergency is, and thus there is no clear/consistent/objective guidance for the executive board on how to rule a complaint as an emergency or not.

@Lambdamale. 5 ай бұрын

@jordanrouden6440 Honestly I haven't read any of it, or if there have been any specific accusations against certain men.

@unit2394 5 ай бұрын

I am not ARP (I am not even Presbyterian) but I have many close friends in the ARP and PCA. I also know one of your guests and have found him personally to be a good (in the colloquial sense) man. From what I have seen of both of these gentleman they are good men. Folks have been giving me info about this as it develops. I pray for this sad situation.