Second Saturday Series - "Tattletale Sounds: The Edmund Fitzgerald Investigations" (January 2023)

[@HoshizakiYoshimasa]

Ignore the haters Ric. Some people just don't like to be challenged for what they long held believe. I personally believe she had hull failure due to increased cargo loads (more than what she was designed for) that couldn't handle the flexing going through rough weather. Hull twisting buckled the fence rail. Water got into the ship, ether the ballast section or bottom of the cargo hold where the crew couldn't see it. Causing her to list. She gradually got Lower and lower in the water and Big wave then finished her off just after 7pm

[@Boisey3007]

Again....ITS JUST A SONG MAN! and its a classic exactly how it is! Gordie captures the moment of that final journey better than anyone. He has his audience believing we witnessed it first hand and what it was really like for the sailors that fateful evening. The intricate rhymes, the thought provoking words and timeless flow of the song are genius, but only work because of the balance between them. Also, he is making a generalization of the Great Lakes shipping industry interwoven into the tragic story of the largest, most popular, most studied, most mysterious and most recent shipwreck on the great lakes. The idea is for you to get interested by the song and then look up the story yourself. You can't expect to learn every detail just from listening to the song.

[@andevil777]

RIP Gordon Lightfoot, folk troubadour/lyrical storyteller, so far as i know, not a historian. I think its called "artistic license."

[@91guzzler]

It’s always a treat whenever the presenter is Ric Mixter this man can make any subject interesting and enjoyable to watch. Your book is awesome anyone who didn’t get it yet, you need to get it such a good book.

[@tmayer0009]

Wish you could sit down with Captain Darrell Walton and talk to him about the Edmond Fitzgerald, his dad Wade Walton was on her when she sank. He is a well of information about her.

[@garylefevers]

History Mystery Man has done a few interviews with him thus far. It is fascinating. Very interesting interview.

[@martinlivesley1069]

Think it was his Uncle but he said his dad was the 30th victim because he never recovered from it emotionally

[@firewalkerp]

Captain Darrel’s dad was on the Reserve when the Fitz sunk, although his dad and brother had worked on it. It was Darrel’s uncle Ralph was on the Fitz when it sank.

[@C77-C77]

Was going to comment just this. Capt. Darrell knows more than most. His father was a Chief Engineer for Columbia Transport/Oglebay Norton, he held the position of Chief Engineer on a few of the company ships, including the Fitz for a time. His Uncle Ralph was an Oiler on the Fitz, and went down with her. The sinking completely broke his fathers spirit, he died fairly young, because he knew the Fitz inside and out, and knew the sinking could have been avoided and his brother would still be with him had they not delayed her work after an inspection in October. The inspectors said it was ok to delay that work until the hauling was done for the season. The boat had no business being out there at the time, besides helping the company do business. $$$$!! She was always rode hard and put away wet and desperately needed that serious drydock work. Keel was loose, the hatch covers didnt even fit anymore because of all the twisting she did in rough seas. Doesn't matter if they weren't completely dogged down, because they COULDN'T be completely dogged, even after lots of pounding with a sledgehammer. McSorely was actually on the way to put her into drydock when he got a call to do "one more run". The storm they rode into was monstrous, and when the crew needed the Fitz to take them to safe harbor, she didn't have it in her. Bottomed on Caribou, ballast tank vents flew sky high. If there was water in the hold, those vents wouldn't have been affected. After that she was doomed in that storm, McSorely knew. He made a run for Whitefish, all she wrote. Wasn't even time for quick goodbyes between the crew members, she went down that fast.

[@turdferguson4124]

Armchair investigators like Mr. Mixter have interviewed a lot of the primary sources from the time of the sinking (many of whom have since passed away), but I think it would really be interesting to interview the attorneys for the companies who owned and operated the Fitzgerald to find out what their thoughts were concerning the causes of the sinking. It is strongly implied in these lectures that the narrative of the sinking was influenced by the attorneys for the owner and operator companies, who may have tried to elevate certain pieces of evidence and testimony and conceal others. These attorneys would almost certainly be bound by client confidentiality, but sometimes people divulge things of significance near the end of their lives.

[@kainhall]

good point

[@CKritNinja]

There was a book put out by one of Oglebay Norton's counselors. I didn't find much substance from it- and they are clearly biased for their client (just read the inquiry). All input is great for us armchair investigators!

[@ForeverBleedinGreen]

Not only did management try to "elevate certain pieces of evidence and testimony and conceal others" as you stated, but in the process hid their negligent actions of running the ship like a damn NASCAR just to set worthless, and non-monetary records! Management killed this crew, period! And this assh*** is trying his best to hide that fact, just like any other mainstream media wh*re does these days. That's just what mainstream media have to do when dealing with the unsavory likes of PBS and NatGeo - media outlets who lie through their teeth to promote a false agenda based on assumptions and lies (aka evilutionism). It;s best know as selling your soul to the devil. At first I admired Mixter, now, not in the least, and simply consider him as just another cog in the corrupt machine that lies to us daily. Mixter is a farce, or a media fart - take your pick.

[@Jacked97Ram]

Please define armchair

[@turdferguson4124]

@@Jacked97Ram unofficial, as in not an investigator who is required by and empowered by law to investigate a maritime disaster.

[@michaelstamper3444]

I heard that The Fitz was poorly maintained and never fully docked and repaired but rsther patched up and kept rolling

[@pierrechalifoux9587]

And to add, leave the song alone, Mr. Lighfoot was just being polite and respectful. The song is not a inquiry or an investigation, its a song that (should) have some mystery to it. People get offended to easily now, and its sad. I agree with you that slowly this mentality of thinking is dissipating over time. There are a few lies and blame that should go to the proper people (The Captain), especially the Captain to make this right.

[@talesoftheinlandseas5063]

I don't believe that Mixter actually has a big problem with any of the lyrics. It was just a good way to deliver a presentation about the Fitz.

[@MrTylerStricker]

Yea GL takes alot of flak for being 'historically inaccurate' when it comes to the Fitz, but I would argue he's done more than just about any other singular individual for spreading the story into the mainstream and significantly raising awareness about not just the Fitz herself, but how significantly dangerous ALL of these jobs on Great Lake freighters are.

[@leftseat30]

​@talesoftheinlandseas5063 uh...yeah. that. I'm not sure what's with all the crabby pants-ing like Gordon Lightfoot needs to be treated with kid gloves and it seems clear Lightfoot and mixter were on good terms

[@carolinawestern3875]

​@@leftseat30 pant-sing??

[@leftseat30]

@@carolinawestern3875 you put the hyphen in the wrong place…quoting myself “pants-ing”. Here endeth the lesson.

[@Ok2bcrazy78]

I was born in Bay City but raised in Oklahoma. I would have loved to be at this talk..

[@logdog8920]

Nice presentation, The History Mystery man, with Captain Darrel Walton also give an excellent overview to the sinking of "The Fitz".

[@garylefevers]

Absolutely right. One of my favorite KZbinrs. Plus Cap Walton is fascinating.

[@carolinawestern3875]

I visited Green Bay and got to see some freighters. While docked and sitting high in the water. Pictures dont do justice to how huge they really are! You could actually hear the hum of the engines. As some passed close by. I enjoyed, just sitting for hours. Watching them go by.

[@hollymartins6913]

I would tend to believe the recollections of a mariner and captain (Bernie Cooper) of over 40 years experience as opposed to a journalist who wasn't there.

[@ryannafe9252]

Then you’re not very familiar with the human mind, epistemology, or literally anything to do with historical research. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@damienszabo2260]

Quite right. 👍

[@Boisey3007]

Ya bro! absolutely

[@Boisey3007]

Mixter is working for the shipping company behind the scenes, continuing to push and maintain the complacency story, putting the blame on negligence of the crew! -Impossible! ~There is NO WAY, NO MATTER WHAT, UNDER ANY CIRCUNSTANCE that an experienced Captain and 1st mate like McSorley and McCarthy would have allowed the ship to set sail without being completely sea worthy and safe to begin with. It Is possible that they may have left port on November 9th with every other or every two clamps tightened only, but as the storm warnings started to worsen, they would have sent word around the ship to dog everything down. With that being said, you have to come to the conclusion that water entered the cargo holds from a different path than from the hatch covers, which means the crew did their jobs correctly.

[@C77-C77]

@@Boisey3007 The covers couldn't be fully dogged. The covers didn't even fit properly due to all the twisting the Fitz did while being rode hard and put away wet for 17 years. Even pounding with a sledge didn't help. They hit the shoal and ripped a hole in the bottom, that's why the ballast vent covers flew off. probably was water in the hold, but it wouldn't have sank without the hull being compromised. Lost positive buoyancy, from then on she was doomed, especially after mcsorley reduced his speed. Had he kept the hammer down, he MAY have just made it. No doubt in my mind he knew this while talking to Cooper on the radio, and for some reason he kept it to himself.

[@mikeb949]

It has always amazed me on how it is very difficult to get any of the underwater video footage to review

[@uprr838]

The tech was quite limited in the late 1970's and 1980's. By the time undersea tech went digital, access to the wreck was closed. To see the state of the art, search up the survey vessel Octopus and its videos of WWII shipwrecks in the depths of the Pacific ocean.

[@nobodyshome758]

Thank you so much. I can't get enough of learning about this tragic wreck. I have your book and what a wonderful resource!! Look forward to new information as to what actually happened. Keep up the great work. Appreciate it so much!

[@kainhall]

there are other sinkings which are FAR more interesting . its just that this ships sinking is (sorta) recent.... pretty well documented.... and had a song written about it LOL if other sinkings had a bad ass song.... i think they would also be more popular . not trying to hate on you.... just saying

[@mjanovec]

Did the hatches collapse and cause the sinking? Or did the sinking cause the hatches to collapse? Even if one doesn’t believe she grounded at Caribou shoal, it seems clear the Fitzgerald suffered a wound near Caribou that sealed her fate… causing her to take on water. The lack of bottom damage on the upturned stern section doesn’t really say much, as the majority of her bottom isn’t visible. If her midsection just briefly “kissed” the rocky bottom at the trough of a wave and punctured a small hole, that might have been all that was needed. We’ll never know for certain.

[@uprr838]

Look up Derbyshire, a 965-foot British bulk carrier that sank in a typhoon south of Japan in Sept. 1980. It sank due to diminished buoyancy of the bow, aiding big waves in collapsing the forward hatch covers. Mr. Mixters theory of waves vs. hatch covers, spooky parallels.

[@Boisey3007]

Each hatch lid is something like 10ft wide by 50ft long by a half inch thick and weighs seven tons! There are 21 hatches and they each have 68 clamps! So unless a massive amount of water(like over 12 foot on top of spar deck) came crashing down onto a specific one or two hatch covers, the weight of the water alone would not be enough to implode the cover into the hold. The force that will accomplish this is going to be the inertia from the massive wave falling or crashing on the hold. Solely the weight of the same amount of water just sitting or rolling over the hatches would not be enough. You are correct in saying she simply "kissed" the bottom, not feeling it and only rupturing a tank or two. There is no other way to explain the down fence rail. This can only happen from hogging the ship, exactly what would happen if you ground out. The starboard list is a sign of a groundout, as is the vent covers being blasted off! This would only happen with a change of air pressure in the tanks. Also, the groundout more or less happened very close to the exact middle of the ship and was probably only 50 feet long or so. But because the tear was in the middle, this caused the ship to break in half after she had plunged and struck bottom. The weakened middle section simply disintegrated as the screw twisted her and ripped her apart in the middle. That is why that sections gone and that's why there's no damage on the upside down stern.

[@C77-C77]

Hatches didn't fit properly. They couldn't be made water tight no matter how long they pounded away with a sledge to try to dog them down. The Fitz was twisted to hell and needed tons of immediate drydock work for months before she sank. But..."one more run".

[@loricharpentier1654]

Don't be so hard on gordon lightfoot. He did the best job he could telling the story of the fitz. Rick i think you're nitpicking. Yes, I,m from Canada.

[@ZandKsDad]

It's called poetic license. Lightfoot wasn't writing a story for a newspaper. The irony is that without Lightfoot's tribute and its impact, there wouldn't be nearly as much interest in this story, and most people would know nothing about it or of the lives lost.

[@garylefevers]

As much as I like Rick Mixer, I disagree in regards to Captain Cooper. He was there. I understand small details can change however one can not judge what one will do unless one is in the situation. Just because he went to take a nap does not mean he was not worried.

[@HoshizakiYoshimasa]

Let's remember that the Great Lakes fleet wasn't nice to former Fitzgerald crewmen Richard Orgel and Red Burger before their testimony to the Coast Guard. I can totally see the great lakes fleet telling Cooper before he went in to the Coast Guard saying "Hey, our industry is on rough times. Remember your pension". I'm not saying it DID happen. But I can certainly see it happening knowing how the Great Lakes fleet deals with things. I know Cooper though Fitzgerald got close to that Shoal spot. But I can't help but remember that the Canada cost guard (unless they were covering it up) saying they dive the shoal area and saw no red paint marks. No broken rocks. Nothing.

[@HoshizakiYoshimasa]

Great Lakes Shipping industry protected their industry from even more financial hardship by promoting the shoaling theory trying to memory-hole the fact Fitzgerald and even her exact sister ship (Arthur B Homer) were carrying cargo amounts they weren't designed for. Especially in autumn where bad weather and storms are common. And the average American and Canadian citizen, known for their gullibility, goes along with the narrative.

[@Boisey3007]

exactly.... good call man I have an easier time believing a guy who was actually there and has all that experience. Mixter is working for the shipping company trying to maintain the complacency narrative of the crew!

[@m35gibson1]

He was there, but he was also off duty at the time. Sleeping..I tend to shy away from cooper's recollections. ..

[@jimhall1095]

Ric does a great job and I can’t get enough of this stuff.

[@TillerG7]

Due to the immense amounts of cargo she was forced to carry, the wear and tare and aging, and the storm she was battling, the massive seas caused a stress fracture in her hull which got through the double hull and water started to enter the cargo holds. Once the holds got enough water, a huge rogue wave hit her and it pushed all the cargo forward, possibly breaking through one of the non watertight bulkheads which sent her head first to the bottom. Once the bow hit bottom, there was still almost 200’ of ship above the surface, where the fracture finally gave way and she broke apart. You won’t convince me otherwise unless there’s a strong argument for her bottoming out around Caribou. Either way, she was taking on water fast from her keel.

[@Johnny53kgb-nsa]

Were you able to examine all the bottom, was some missing, or too mangled, was the bow drove into the lake floor?

[@HoshizakiYoshimasa]

Fitzgerald's exact Sister Ship Arthur B Homer was scrapped years after disaster despite tens of millions of dollars spent on lengthening the Homer... they blamed the economy. Then why not anchor the Homer long-term until the economy improved like they did with other ships? Ether the Great Lakes fleet of the US and Canada are wasteful fools. Or as speculated by shipyard workers, there really was a hull/design flaw for rough weather with the Fitzgerald and Homer. The last remaining engineer who help design and built Fitzgerald and Homer says the ships were NOT designed to be carrying the amount of crago that they were in the 70's. It would place added stress on the hull especially during bad weather.

[@josephcappa1753]

Good presentation---thanks for tearing apart a really cool song. Well done--lol

[@kainhall]

sigh.... i wonder how many people think the song is made up........ . like, ya, its a WONDERFUL song..... a damn good song (the lyrics, instruments, ETC ETC ETC are all PERFECT in my opinion) but i still wonder how many people think its fake . like, people think the Titanic is just a movie.... and not a real ship that sunk these people are REALLY dense

[@metisont]

He could have taken shelter in Thunder Bay Ontario Canada ..an International Port. He ran right past it and Isle Royale also. I remember that night on Noth Shore of Lake Superior.....right on the shore. The Captain too confident in the big ship has to be examined.

[@martinlivesley1069]

He seems to have been unaware of the state of his vessel..just from what I've read and heard which seems odd.Also Captain Darrell who lost his Uncle mentions how the macho frame of mind of some Captains affected their judgment

[@stynger007]

The real question is: was Cooper (Anderson) probably right when he said the Fitz struck ground on Caribou Island and breached Her hull. Afterwards She said She had a starboard list , her rails were down, and last known communication reported by Cpt, Cooper. Fitz at that point had no working radar and was relying on Cooper for their whereabouts. The Anderson and the William Clay Ford both ventured back into the storm even after Cooper said He would but not without the potential of danger to His crew. The William Clay Ford apparently may have remained silent at this time or the radio communique there is no written verbatim that said the WCF had radio communication but obviously they did or they would not have partaken into a potential disaster. Everyone has their thought on how the Fitz went down. Looking at the shroud above the wheelhouse bent down and a Fore wheelhouse- McSorely was commandeering as Cooper had said- He may have assumed it was yet another rogue wave they could recover from. The Anderson previous to the Fitz loss reported 2 ,( not 3 sisters wave )that were a cause for Concern- so when that 2 wave hit, it may have grown considerably given the Fitz was ahead of Her.

[@HoshizakiYoshimasa]

Problem is with Shoal theory is that Canada dove the shoals a Fitzgerald supposedly hit just after the disaster and found no red paint. No broken rocks.... Nothing

[@HoshizakiYoshimasa]

Great Lakes Shipping industry protected their industry from even more financial hardship by promoting the shoaling theory trying to memory-hole the fact Fitzgerald and even her exact sister ship (Arthur B Homer) were carrying cargo amounts they weren't designed for. Especially in autumn where bad weather and storms are common. And the average American and Canadian citizen, known for their gullibility, goes along with the narrative.

[@robbieblackmore7272]

Is this a story about a historical event or a massive nitpick of a musician's creative lyrical license?

[@stewyelite]

These don't get enough views, Fascinating stuff

[@joemd7775]

In Physics, Newton's second law is Force = Mass * Acceleration. And just my opinion, but I think it's somewhat doubtful that the 276ft bow section would carve that deep trench into the mud by itself (from the breaking apart on the surface theory). It most likely wouldn't have the necessary moment, i.e. mass * acceleration resultant force to do that or stability about its center of gravity. While the entire 729ft of ship would have that force necessary -especially in a ~45 degree nosedive to plow that deep trench. Hence as the entire ship was nosediving or imbedding the bow deep into the mud, the center section was collapsing and crushed into rubble. In addition the 276ft bow section alone, in all likelihood, would lose lateral stability (roll) about its longitudinal axis if the ship did in fact break apart on the surface in its journey to 530ft depth. Again, lacking the necessary moment to dig/imbed itself or create that deep trench.

[@Johnny53kgb-nsa]

I favor Captain Cooper's theory.

[@RomeroTV]

Ahhh dope! New Rick content

[@nw8000]

Can I get a photo copy of that cook book please?

[@leftseat30]

Ric Mixter crushes it...again!

[@zachhoward9099]

Going to buy his 4 part podcast this weekend and the book next weekend, can’t get enough of Ric’s videos no matter the topic and the book sounds incredible

[@baycountyhistoricalsociety8579]

The book is now for sale at the Museum store.

[@randrew10001]

how do you get a copy of his book?

[@linayer]

wHER CAN i BUY THE BOOK IN THE UK

[@ronaldpellet854]

Ron from New Jersey. Jersey Shore. Too lol great presentation

[@kevinluzier799]

the ship smashing into the lake bottom would have bent and loosened the clamps the weight would have been a factor

[@user-vn8jp2iw7z]

HAVE YOU EVER TAKE A DEEP THOUGHT if A WAVE actually scoooped it all out???

[@martinlivesley1069]

Wonder what the Payment to the Captain and crew was for the fateful journey

[@helioselexandros]

$600 for crews family

[@dennisward4855]

ebert ward sunk here too....

[@kurtfromm9126]

It is clearly obvious that she ran around and was sinking from that time forward

[@HoshizakiYoshimasa]

It's not obvious at all. Canada dove on the shoal site right after the sinking and found no broken rocks. No red paint marks. Cooper himself said he couldn't rule out hull failure either. Fitzgerald's sister ship Arthur B Homer was scrapped despite having millions upon millions of dollars spent on its lengthening just a few years prior. Former Fitzgerald crew mates said the Fitzgerald flexed unusually much in bad weather and that Captain McSorley himself called it "the wiggling thing". And Fitzgerald's design engineer said Fitzgerald was not designed to be carrying the amount of cargo it was carrying in the 1970s. Especially in stormy seas.

[@richardchartrand5340]

The vents and the rail on the starboard side were missing and it was taken on a list to the starboard side. Anybody with a schematic of the boat can tell you right away that there's damage to the bottom of the ship on the starboard side which is. Now buried in 27' of lake bottom sand. And then there's the fact that Reef number 29 At six fathom shoal Has red paint on it why don't? We compare it to the paint on the fitzgerald. Of course you're used to selling tickets and Razzle dazzling people with lore, I can't believe that you would actually challenge the captain that was actually there and call him a liar, And not only that you did it like a coward because you waited for him to die to do it.

[@HoshizakiYoshimasa]

Fitzgerald's exact Sister Ship Arthur B Homer was scrapped years after disaster despite tens of millions of dollars spent on lengthening the Homer... they blamed the economy. Then why not anchor the Homer long-term until the economy improved like they did eith other ships? Ether the Great Lakes fleet of the US and Canada are wasteful fools. Or as speculated by shipyard workers, there really was a hull/design flaw for rough weather with the Fitzgerald and Homer. The last remaining engineer who help design and built Fitzgerald and Homer says the ships were NOT designed to be carrying the amount of crago that they were in the 70's. It would place added stress on the hull especially during bad weather.

[@HoshizakiYoshimasa]

Where's your source on reef 29? Canada's Coast Guard dive the shoal area said they found no red paint marks. No broken rocks. Nothing. Ether they are lying (Which is possible. But why would they here?) Or YOU are making up stuff.

[@jimhall1095]

The Coast Guard never found paint, scrapping, any type of disturbance in the 6 fathom shoal/Caribou Island area. Neither did the Navy. There is also no damage to the bottom of the hull to indicate any damage from running aground. In addition, Six Fathom Shoal is much deeper than 6 fathoms. It is at least twice that depth on average depending on lake levels from year to year. For any ship to run aground in that area, water level would be up past the pilot house which would mean it’s already sunk.

[@JohnnyLaps]

​​@@jimhall1095but Jim how the hell would any paint be left behind on a shoal underwater in a lake as turbulent as Lake Superior?

[@kennethhewitt1968]

I started off with no opinion at all of Ric Mixter and now find myself disliking him immensely. Seems he envies Mr. Lightfoot quite a bit. I’ll take Cooper’s word, a veteran Captain over a book selling huckster like Mixter. The Fitzgerald tore a hole in her over Six Fathom. You’ll never convince me otherwise. The hatches were dogged. Correctly. He waited for Cooper to pass, he’s admitted he’s waiting for the sons, wives and daughters to pass to launch more expeditions that those people are dead-set against. Straight creep with an ego bigger than the Fitzgerald herself.

[@saltyaf1130]

This ☝👍

[@HoshizakiYoshimasa]

​​@@saltyaf1130 Canada dove the 6 fathom shoals in that section of lake after the disaster and testified they found nothing. No broken rocks. No red paint. Nothing. If Fitzgerald grounded anywhere it was probably Chummy bank. But even then... I can't help but remember that the EdmundFitzgerald's exact Sister Ship Arthur B Homer was scrapped years after disaster despite tens of millions of dollars spent on lengthening the Homer... they blamed the economy. Then why not anchor the Homer long-term until the economy improved like they did with other ships? Ether the Great Lakes fleet of the US and Canada are wasteful fools. Or as speculated by shipyard workers, there really was a hull/design flaw for rough weather with the Fitzgerald and Homer. The last remaining engineer who help design and built Fitzgerald and Homer says the ships were NOT designed to be carrying the amount of crago that they were in the 70's. It would place added stress on the hull especially during bad weather.

[@HoshizakiYoshimasa]

The problem with Shoal cultists like you fail to address is that Canada dove the 6 fathom shoals in that section of lake after the disaster and testified they found nothing. No broken rocks. No red paint. Nothing. If Fitzgerald grounded anywhere it was probably Chummy bank. But even then... I can't help but remember that the Edmund Fitzgerald' exact Sister Ship Arthur B Homer was scrapped years after the disaster despite millions of dollars spent on her lengthening. They blamed the economy, yet smaller and older ships got put up in long-term anchoring until the economy improved. Ether the Great Lakes fleets of the USA and Canada are extremely wasteful, or the speculation from the shipyard workers is true and Fitzgerald and Homer had a hull flaw in bad weather. The last remaining engineer who built Fitzgerald and Homer said those ships weren't designed to be carrying the amount of cargo they were carrying in the 70s.

[@TheGreatLakesSportsman]

Nice opinion, nobody cares.

[@leftseat30]

Ric Mixter is right, we don't treat other tragedies like Fitzgerald gets treated, we dont put other fatal wrecks off limits. What's the standard? As for Lightfoot's song, law of primacy being in play, Lighfoot told the story first. With inaccuracies. As long as you can listen to the song and geek out to the facts underlying, no harm, no foul in knowing the truth. Ric Mixter, it would be an honor to meet you some day and buy you a nice dinner and hear your life stories. Lastly, for some reason around history everyone is a know it all, controlling of the facts, quick to put others down and pass their opinions off as facts. I think Mr. Mixter presents humbly and approachably considering his experiences and he is quite open about what experiences he has and has not. He doesn't continue to be keynote speaker by accident

[@pierrechalifoux9587]

Well you are right about one thing, she broke apart at the top. you mite be right about the three sisters but it did get hit by two rogue waves and your wrong about if it didn't sink the Anderson than the same waves would not have sank the Fitz, You also must not swim much in hugh waves in the summer time or seadoo in them neither in Lake Superior in late fall. That is a better perspective.The Anderson was NOT almost half full of water, nor did it have structual damage since Caribou Island and even as far as Michipicoten Island weaking it further mile by the mile, holy molly. And I KNOW your right that it did not go aground at Caribou island, Captain McSorely had already reported at 15.10 to Captain Cooper that the Fitz was damaged and taking on water before it even got through Caribou Island! but maybe it hit something just lightly enough to make it unbeknown to the crew way before Caribou Island?, maybe it hit something around Michipicoten Island, unbeknown to the crew nor dive teams, then over time the old girl couldn't take it any longer and the keel slowly got worst before reaching Caribou Island. The first wave kicked the poor girls ass upwards bringing the bow down further as it was already listing ever so deeper mile by mile since at 1530, and it buckled when it bogged after recuperating form the first wave, but she did not break completely apart, the second rogue wave sagged is what broke her back when she recuperated from the second wave, the stern corked there for a few seconds after being detached from the bow than simply rolled over on her back as she sunk landing upside down at the bottom on top its own tacontie, the bow dove to the bottom as it dettached itself from the stern section. The same thing that happened when the Olympic sunk on April 15th 1912 after it hit an iceburgh. Same analogy as a 12 foot boat made of match sticks and filled with steel plates getting bounced around by rogue waves then going down into 9 feet of water. Radio cummunication at 1730 being overheard also proves that they had something major going on the deck, so ya they did lose two hatches which the rogue waves finished off the poor girl in the end. Think Montreal River harbour and Batchawna Bay, if you do not need to look them up, you mite know more about the Canadian side of things!. The Fitz should have never sank. It should have shelterd in place as best it could at Caribou Island period, even having to beach if necessary, even if they had to abandoned her saving the crew at Caribou island, never leave the shore when your boat is taking on water, Sailing #101. Follow the money, the Ego, the time, and back to the money again. Bonuses were paid, its no secret. Look at the guesses on the ships list! It even had a chance to ditch itself turning course to Coppermine point/Deadmans Cove, being only 9.7 nautical miles from where she sank had it done so at 1730 after speaking with Captain Woodard. She was the Toledo Express, she mite have missed those two rogue waves as she pulled away from the eye of the storm slightly slipping northeast ever so moving mile by mile towards the inland part of Coppermine PointDeadmans Cove

[@ForeverBleedinGreen]

Try breaking up long comments like this into paragraphs dude. Horrible reading...

[@HoshizakiYoshimasa]

​@@ForeverBleedinGreen yeah. But it's exactly a well thought out comment. Sad he didn't use paragraphs

[@ewaldvonkleist6834]

You were not there, Captain Cooper was. I will take his word for it over yours. You can only hypothesize.

[@damienszabo2260]

Leave the song alone & enough with the damn nit picking, it served it's purpose, you "correcting" Gordon & Bernie Cooper to sell a book isn't bringing anybody back, nobody had any issue with it till the woke mob started microanalyzing every damn thing & had to have it "realigned", I DON'T CARE IF IT'S TECHNICALLY ACCURATE, the song works the way it is, don't like and won't listen to the "new lyrics", what are you going to pick on next - "Sink The Bismarck"?, "Night They Drove Old Dixie Down? Stop screwing with peoples memories & let the crew, Captain Cooper & Gordon rest in peace.

[@waynesanders5409]

I’m from Mississippi and thoroughly enjoy all of these lectures on the Fitz but seeing the pictures of that beautiful ship on the bottom are so sobering