Second Species Counterpoint

[@nils8584]

Man i was looking for a rule of thumb for using dissonances on the downbeat, fux doesnt hit on this at all. thanks a lot!

[@lawrencetaylor4101]

This is out of my paygrade since I have yet to begun first species CP. But I liked your style and subbed.

[@willmartin3067]

I'm learning from Fux, so learning modal counterpoint, But here you teach tonal counterpoint with obviously harmonic consideration. Do you think it is a bad idea to learn modal counterpoint initially or is it easy to adapt to tonal counterpoint?

[@BachtotheBasics]

I actually think it's easier to adapt tonal to modal because you can still have modal inflections embedded within tonal frameworks. I touch upon this briefly in my 3rd species video, but it's something I'd like to elaborate upon in future videos especially since both types of counterpoint follow a very similar set of rules - it's mostly a matter of understanding how certain choices can make something sound either more modal or tonal.

[@elevan2760]

I don't understand the difference between modal and tonal counterpoint. Could you do a vid on the different types of counterpoint and what defines them or is that too basic for this channel?

[@sergioandresbenitezhernand2542]

Question, what happens to the rules of keeping or changing certain notes under the movement of the CF? Do passing tones have to follow these same rules?

[@BachtotheBasics]

Hey Sergio, can you elaborate? I'm not fully understanding your question

[@sergioandresbenitezhernand2542]

@@BachtotheBasics In the "intro to harmony" video, we learned 3 rules of movement for 4 voices. Are we still following them in the species counterpoint videos?

[@BachtotheBasics]

​@@sergioandresbenitezhernand2542 Ah, I see! With the counterpoint treatise I use, we cannot repeat notes consecutively, so no, the rules wouldn't always work. In 4 part counterpoint, we have to be a bit more creative with the voice leading while still avoiding errors. I'll get to 4 part counterpoint in my videos eventually, but first, I have to do 3 part CP!

[@ricardourkutaki7194]

magnifique!!! Merci beaucoup!

[@MODUS_OP]

I’m confused. You have large leaps in your CF that aren’t followed by stepwise motion in the opposite direction. Can you please explain why this is ok in your example? Thank you.

[@BachtotheBasics]

The cantus firmus is given so it can't be changed. To clarify, leaps don't ALWAYS have to be balanced by step in the opposite direction, but they often should, especially when using quicker note values. Remember to look at the totality of the line - even in the cantus, that D eventually resolves to C in bar 6. In general, aim to balance your leaps but realize that there's wiggle room :)

[@gibsonbe1]

You are teaching tonal counterpoint. Species counterpoint does not allow any dissonances on the down beat till you reach 4th species and then it can only be a suspension. Thinking about chord progressions is a tonal concept. Our modern ears will accept dissonances like accented passing tones but they should not be taught in species counterpoint.

[@BachtotheBasics]

Species counterpoint has nothing to do with tonality or modality. All “species” refers to is the rhythmic ratio of notes against the cantus. My content is based on Gallon and Bitsch’s counterpoint treatise

[@JRyanKern]

@@BachtotheBasics Do you think it's worth it to dive into the Gallon/Bitsch treatise (assuming I can find it in English)? I am already struggling a bit through Fux and have the Piston counterpoint book on deck. My interest in counterpoint comes from hearing a few of my favorite composer/arrangers mention that they use a mainly contrapuntal approach (Vince Mendoza, Jeff Beal...).

[@BachtotheBasics]

⁠​⁠​⁠@@JRyanKernI’d do Piston over Fux. I like the Gallon/Bitsch treatise because they’re more flexible when it comes to treatment of dissonances, but I don’t think an english version exists. Honestly, anything works but be strict and disciplined in following whatever rules you set out to follow. The restrictions in counterpoint help you learn to control every note you write

[@JRyanKern]

@@BachtotheBasics There are so many different sets of rules! I like how many more options there are for dissonances in the gallon/bitsch treatise, based on your videos. Fux doesn't even give you neighboring tones. I'm not quite sure how the contrapuntal texture can apply to more contemporary music or impressionistic music (a la Debussy). Not trying to just master 17th/18th century choral music. And I feel like there's more to motivic counterpoint than just voice leading, but that seems to be all Fux covers...