Second Thessalonians 007 - The Departure First

[@patedwards8844]

I agree with you, Dr Woods, about the physical departure of the church in these verses in 2ND Thess.😊

[@jesusmustbeyourlanguage386]

Thank you so much Dr Woods

[@sj-777]

Dr. Woods, as always, your thorough teaching using the proper contextual rendering is stellar. Sound and fundamental. "Minority view" it may well be; but it is the correct view.

[@Carol-lz6dd]

Maranatha 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

[@fairdinkum-777]

The Lord always answers our prayer in His perfect timing, just like the Rapture will be in His perfect timing. Agree with Dr Andy Woods. Physical Departure of the Church. Blessings.

[@patedwards8844]

My 2nd Sunday msg today. I like to learn about the rapture as taught by Dr Andy Woods. Thank you Dr Woods 😊😊😊. I am so excited by the coming rapture! The worse the world gets, the closer we get to Jesus!❤

[@markmoore3530]

This message is sent in love. The rapture is a false doctrine and is mainly derived out of 1st Thessalonians. When was this book written, to whom, and what does it say? Written circa 52 A.D. to a church that was present in 52 A.D., this letter was not written to you. In every chapter Paul/Silvanus & Timotheus (authors) tell the church members that Christ is coming ch 1:10, 2:19,3:13,4:15-16,5:23. If you received a letter telling "you" that the Lord was coming 6 times what would you believe? Exactly. When our Lord was being led away to be crucified; Jesus turned to them, saying, “Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for Me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. He returned in the first century and destroyed the temple in judgement fulfilling the law. Matthew 16:27-28 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Daniel tells us Rome would be in power when the everlasting kingdom would be established: Daniel 2:44, 7:14, 9:24. Christ quoted from Daniel and told "them" (his audience to whom he was speaking) when "you" see the abomination, not us: When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand) The entirety of the New Testament authors all tell their immediate audience that Christ was coming, in their lifetime. Paul, John, James, Peter all say the same thing. Christ was sent in the last days, Hebrews 1:2 The "last" days were 2,000 years past. Peter said he was living in the last days, Acts 2. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-16 The word harpazo is used several times in scripture. It means to be caught/gather/taken, some scholars even insinuate a robbery connotation. So, who was the book of Thessalonians written to? A church When? circa 52 A.D. This letter was not written to you. It does not apply to you. You are not a member of the Church of Thessalonica. In chapter 4, the church members are obviously concerned about what has happened to their members who have already died, physically, verse 13. Why? Paul had already told them 4 times in this letter that Jesus Christ was coming. They were looking for him. In verse 14 Paul is telling them that God will also gather them, the ones who have already died physically. If you die a believer, where do you go to reside? Heaven This is your final abode. Where does Abraham, Isaac and Jacob live? Christ was sent to redeem/restore all things in heaven and the earth. Acts 3 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. Almost all of the prophets talked about the "last/latter" days, this is where the New Testament writers get their doctrine. The saints in heaven are not leaving their abode; they are simply included in the "gathering", which is the resurrection Paul preached. In verse 15 Paul tells this church, that they were going to "be alive", breathing, when the Lord returned. And obviously they would not precede, go before, the saints who physically died and were already in heaven. The gathering/resurrection/restoration was for all things in heaven and earth. Verse 16 the dead in Christ (a believer who physically died and is now residing in heaven) will be restored/resurrected/gathered first) Why? Christ was sent from heaven by his Father. If you live in heaven, then you obviously will participate in order first. Verse 17 then we which are alive and remain, we (these are breathing Thessalonian church members) Paul told "them" that they would see the coming of the Christ, 6 times in this letter. To "meet" the Lord. Just like harpazo has a meaning, this word meet is apantesis. What does this word infer to a first century person? This word is used for a formal meeting of a dignitary. Everyone in antiquity knew this word meant that a dignitary was coming to your city. They knew this meant that you would send out a welcoming party and usher that dignitary into your city, where they would remain. It never refers to someone coming to your city to get you and take you to a different location. The second coming/resurrection that Paul preached had nothing to do with physical bodies. He tells us in Acts that his doctrine on the resurrection comes from the law and prophets. This message is sent in love, your friend

[@patedwards8844]

Very good lesson 👍

[@MrGMcAulay]

This is a very good survey. I believe one of the things restraining the lawless one is the first seal on the scroll the Lamb opens in Revelation 6. The faithful are in heaven to witness the seals being broken, and the rider on the white horse is the first seal judgment. This could support Dr. Woods's position that the apostasy is a synonym for the rapture. Let the Spirit teach and remember context is king with regard to interpretation. Either way, some want to interpret the passage; I am staying awake and watching and hoping we are gathered to Him today. While I watch, I am doing what I can to make disciples others by the leading of the Spirit and continue to be disciplined by the Spirit, praying that the Spirit leads me in truth in accordance to the scriptures. Faithful, accountable, and teachable.

[@markmoore3530]

The man of sin, the son of perdition 2 Thessalonians 2:3: Greetings friend, this message is sent in love. Revelation was written circa 65 A.D. and fulfilled 66 -70 A.D./ almost every prophet talks about the "last/latter" days of the Mt.Sinai/Mosaic covenant. Daniel even gives the dates, chapters 2:44, 7:14, 9:24, (ch 12 is the resurrection/restoration). Christ was very specific pertaining to his return date, Matthew 16:27-28. For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Pertaining to the man of sin, read Jocephus, whom was an eyewitness to the Revelation of Jesus Christ. The revelation that Peter told his audience they would witness, 1 Peter 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ. Ananus was the high priest when the song of Moses (Deuteronomy 32) was being fulfilled, "last days", being sung in Revelation 15. He was killed by the Idumeans and replaced with a "false" high priest named Phannias. There is a possibility that Phannias is the man of sin spoken of by Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:3. Obviously, the Thessalonian church members knew who was holding him back, (Paul said they knew him), probably the high priest Ananus, until he was murdered. This is just a thought, read Jocephus and most importantly the prophets for the dates. The New Testament is written by Jews, and they will tell you that their doctrine comes from the prophets. Christians and Jews are still looking for a Messiah, that the scriptures teach has already come. this message is sent in love, your friend

[@MrGMcAulay]

@@markmoore3530 One small problem. John was exiled to Patmos by Domitian in 81 A.D. to 96 A.D. and had the vision for the Revelation of Jesus Christ some twenty-five years after you claim it was fulfilled. Thank you for the interesting feedback.

[@markmoore3530]

@@MrGMcAulay Greetings, what year was the temple destroyed? 10 Horns: Daniels vision saw 4 kingdoms, total: Babylon, Medes & Persians, Greeks, and finally Rome. Daniel chapter 2 verse 44 makes it crystal clear that Rome would be in power when the Kingdom of God would be established. Daniel chapter 7 is the exact same prophecy, verse 14 makes it crystal clear that the Kingdom would be established when Rome was in power. Rome had 10 Caesars (10 horns) Julius, Augustus, Tiberias, Gaius, Claudius, Nero, Galba, Otho, Vitellius, and lastly Vespasian. Daniels time frame of the great tribulation is three and a half years (Daniel 12:7) and is identical to Revelation, which repeats this time frame no less than 3 times, Revelation 11:2,12:6,13:5 (written circa 65 A.D. fulfilled 66 - 70 A.D.) per Daniel 9:24-27. Daniel chapter 8 elaborates on these 4 kingdoms. 3 Horns: The 3 horns were of the 10, which were all part of Rome, the 4th beast/empire. The 3 horns that fell were Galba (12/3/68 A.D. - 1/15/69) Otho (1/15/69 - 4/16/69) Vitellius (4/16/69 - 12/22/69) these men were all assassinated, fell. Vespasian was the 10th horn and finished the siege of Jerusalem, as prophesied by the law & prophets. Christ said the temple would be destroyed. The disciples asked when? The answer was in their lifetime. In Revelation 17, the woman is apostate Jerusalem/priesthood and the beast she sits on is Rome. The little horn in Daniel 7:8 is the same horn in 7:11 is the same horn in 7:20 is the same horn in 7:25. It is called a little horn, because it could not wield the power of Rome. It was politically subservient to Rome. This horn is apostate Jerusalem. Elohim warned his children over and over through the prophets, all of them, leave your idols, return to me. The song of Moses (Deuteronomy 32 is a song of judgment, sung in Revelation 15 for the "latter days"). The "last/latter days" is defined as the last days of the Mt. Sinai/ Mosaic covenant. Hebrews 8:13 tells the reader that the old covenant was ready to vanish away, it did. Christ said the temple would be destroyed and they would see it, the "last day" of the last days that Peter said he was living in, Acts 2. this message is sent in love, your friend

[@MrGMcAulay]

@@markmoore3530 The temple was destroyed during the siege of Jerusalem in 70 C.E. This was 40 years after the death, burial, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus in 30 C.E. This was prophesied by Ezekiel in chapter 4. The prophet was told to lay on his right side for forty days, a day for each year he would bear the sin of the House of Judah. The Jews were given 40 days after the resurrection to repent. They did not. For the next forty years, the temple gates would not stay shut, the menorah would not stay lit, and the red sash tied to the door on Yom Kippur would not turn white. The Lord let everyone know He was gone, the Light of the temple was gone, and the sin was not forgiven. Rome laid siege to the city destroying the temple mount on Tisha' B' Av 70 C.E.. Because they did not repent of the offense, the rejection of the Messiah, the Lord multiplied the punishment by seven times. This was in accordance with the declaration in Leviticus 26:18-28. Forty years became 280 years. In 350 C.E. Rabbinic Judaism was established once more rejecting the Messiah. Once more the Lord multiplied the punishment by seven in accordance with Leviticus 26. Two hundred and eighty years became 1960 years. The punishment will end on Tisha' B' Av in the year 2030 C.E.

[@markmoore3530]

@@MrGMcAulay Greetings friend, very interesting math, enjoyed reading your thoughts. Christ commissioned the apostles/disciples to take the gospel of the kingdom to the entire known world, which took 40 years as you mentioned above. This task was completed, Romans 10:18 & Colossians 1:23; now the end of the age comes. Christ was born under the law, this is his age, age of the law, age of a law covenant. This is the covenant that ended, Hebrews 8:13, when the temple was leveled to the ground. Does Jeremiah believe there is a need for the ark of the covenant in the future? No Jeremiah 3:16. What covenant do you live under today?

[@WORDversesWORLD]

I sure hope y'all get what you desire, it's not of God, but hey! Do me a favor, when y'all do get SNATCHED AWAY, look for me in the field, you'll know me but my celebration dance. I know my Lord comes soon, but I'll wave!

[@carlperry5932]

Isn't it true that when the physical Departure happens, The spiritual falling away, or Apostacy of the Church , happens simultaneously? The true church is gone!!!

[@emilee172]

Why Cant It Be Both???

[@Donasavedbygrace]

context is the key .

[@emilee172]

Why cant 'the departure' or the 'apostasy' be both the apostasy of the church (false teachings) and the rapture be at the same time, like a coin has 2 sides but is only one coin, and the rapture and the apostasy are at the same exact time, as soon as the rapture event happens, the Only type of church left Will be the apostate church , BTW pastor JD is convinced that the rapture will come before Sept. 25th, 2023

[@marcyoverby3817]

SCRIPTURES ALWAYS INTERPETS SCRIPTURES...

[@peace7267]

apostasy in the dictionary means, an act of refusing to continue to follow, obey or recognise a religious faith, abandonment of a previous loyalty, yes it means leaving but not in the sense that it is used here, always check what you hear. people

[@Donasavedbygrace]

according to the Bible in CONTEXT. You are just ignoring that the Bible is the authority and not the dictionary.

[@markhauserbible7168]

How can a simple teaching be so misunderstood. Paul said TWO things MUST happen before THE resurrection can happen. That DAY (Rapture) shall NOT come until there comes a falling away first. This is a broad statement that can take years to be fulfilled. However, the second thing is SPECIFIC. The man of sin MUST be REVEALED. (Visibly) BEFORE THAT DAY can happen. This is called sound doctrine that Paul said people will NOT endure in the last days. 2Tm4:3-4.

[@robertkee3107]

That day is the day of the lord

[@dougkammer8717]

A well said refuting of what was said by Andy Woods.

[@markhauserbible7168]

NO, the DAY of the Lord is the LAST DAY. Jn6:39-40, and Jn12:48 Believers and unbelievers together. It's also the DAY of WRATH. Rev6:17 DAY. Rm2:5. DAY. Zeph 1:15,18. DAY. It's also the DAY of judgment. Act17:31. When the man of sin is revealed, this begins the TRIBULATION. (NOT 7 years) Rev6:11/ 20:3 Little season. Rev17:10 Short space. To God be the Glory

[@markhauserbible7168]

God bless those who love the TRUTH. Jn17:17@@dougkammer8717

[@sj-777]

You must have been napping for the first 10 minutes of this lesson. Apostasia does mean falling away, just NOT in this verse. Within the context of this verse and the subject matter which Paul is addressing. It means departure. The "falling away" apostasia is addressed by Paul in his Timothy Epistles. The Pastoral epistles speak of "doctrinal departure." Here in the 2nd Thessalonians Paul is addressing apostasia concerning departure. So ask yourself how you can take the grammatical and contextual meaning of this passage and misunderstand it?