Secret of Mana Remake - Part 13 - Final battles and Ending

And that's that. Complete with platinum trophies in about 28 hours of playtime. Not quite a "perfect file" because I didn't max every single weapon and magic, but I don't care about that and it's not remotely worth the time. It's 100% as far as I'm concerned.
So, my thoughts on the remake for anyone who cares. While I enjoyed it for what it was, and didn't hate the music and voices like most people do... (I find the Japanese voices to be equally annoying as the English ones, and why bother buying a remake in the first place if you want to turn off as much of the new content like music or revamped graphics in it as possible?) ...I do feel like it was a bit underwhelming.
Where I'm probably going to diverge from the actual Mana fans is that in my opinion they should have changed MORE than they actually did, not less. Revamping the game systems, changing and adding content, just keeping largely the same story and general gameplay concepts of the original game. Essentially rebuild the game completely instead of just adding a new coat of paint, making it unique on its own and giving both this and the original equal reasons to be played separately; as it is, there's no real point in playing both in the present, and I can't really recommend this version over the original even though I think it's fine.
But of course, if they had changed things like that, the fan backlash would have been immense and would have made the present whining about music and graphical style look like a mere whisper. (Keep an eye on the reaction to FFVII Remake, if it ever actually comes out, for the kind of thing I'm expecting. Although admittedly it might be a lot more justified if they turn out to have messed with the actual characters as much at it seems like they will.) So I can definitely understand the reason for why it ended up being done this way.
"Coat of paint" remakes aren't necessarily a bad thing in any case. For example, the PS1 remake of Tales of Phantasia and the PS2 remake of Dragon Quest V are generally considered to be the definitive versions of those games. My opinions differ somewhat, but that's neither here nor there. (I personally say the DS DQ5 is superior due to better-sounding music and extra content, and ToP's PS1 version strangely falls down on some music despite being better in every other way. A few tracks sound better even in the much-maligned GBA version for some reason even though that was basically just a port of the PS1 version, and a lot more are better on the SNES. The SNES version also has some uniqueness to the game's style - visual and otherwise - that sets it apart, while ToP PS1 is basically Tales of Destiny redrawn into being Phantasia. It doesn't matter much to me anyway because I think ToP isn't a very good game no matter which system its on, mainly due to the story which is very poorly-executed in a similar way to Star Ocean 2's.)

Imagine they actually cared about this remake and not let the squeenix janitor work on it.

[@zetadroid]

wow it does look like s***, good thing I stayed away from it

[@ApolloGenX]

The ending with the sprite gets me every time...

[@Joseph-wx1kb]

I wonder why he couldn't live

[@DiscusvissenRocken]

Because he needs Mana to exist, and because we killed the Mana Beast the Fortress used up the last of the worlds Mana and no more Mana Beast or Tree to restore it

[@Vasculio]

Don't forget poor Flammie...

[@samflood5631]

@@DiscusvissenRockenmaybe Randi and his gang could have let the Mana Beast destroy the Mana Fortress since it was sucking up all of the Mana in the world. I mean the Fortress was destroyed centuries ago and things slowly got back to normal. Sure some sort of technology advanced civilization was destroyed, but at least the Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Sprites, Mushroom people and other races survive.

[@gi_nattak]

wow I never knew the Mana Beast was shooting that spiraling fireball, I thought he turned INTO the fireball...

[@mitazil]

The mana beast was the worst boss I had to defeat. My heart was broken af

[@alittlebirdi]

Woof...the new 'The Oracle' is not great...but 'Meridian Dance' is great :D

[@patrickfoxchild2608]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/r3yvooCCa8-tbJo

[@CPT85]

It always pissed me off how Randi and Primm’s relationship amount to nothing short of platonic. When I was a kid, I expected them to at least hook up, especially after that shit you go through together and that part where Dyluck tells Randi to take care of her. As much as I love the game and remember it fondly, taking off the Rose-tinted nostalgia goggles, it just seems beautifully flawed now. 😒

[@ChristineTheHippie]

Not every boy/girl relationship ends in romance.

[@CPT85]

@@ChristineTheHippie True… But after everything they’ve been through, I feel like “Dafuq?”

[@asneakylawngnome5792]

I don’t care about romance, not every male female pro tags need to have or develop intimate feelings for each other. Even if they did, nothing could save that ending. That ending was fucking terrible. I’m trying to hard to get into the series cuz my friends and colleagues won’t shut up about it being great. But I literally hate it lol secret and trials

[@SaitohYatate]

All the plot holes and loose ends in the game were all because even the original game was incomplete in the first place. This game could have been a masterpiece had Nintendo followed through their deal with Sony for a CD add-on planned for the snes.

[@CordeliaWagner1999]

Romantic Love isn't a reward just for being friends. Thats what Incels think. Romantic Love isn't necessary to have a good story

[@liamfunnyman6965]

I like to imagine that the snow that the Mana Beast had turned into contained Mana returning to the world, meaning that Popoi could possibly be reborn. In the meantime, Randi and Primm can just keep on runnin' there. Man...they'd make such a cute couple.

[@reymilanga7814]

No entiendo muy bien ingles. Pero concuerdo con lo último

[@horrorsans3676]

I was hoping Randi and Primm could've share a kiss or something, there was clearly hints that Primm for moments kinda card more about Randi than Dyluck anyway.

[@samflood5631]

@@horrorsans3676I never really cared for Primm and Dyluck’s relationship since it was more about Primm pining over Dyluck and he was just a plot device.

[@jackall-trades6149]

It kills me that the whole remake isn't like this. I wanted to see so bad the 40% that was cut from the original. It's crazy flawed, but Secret of Mana is still my absolute favorite game.

[@mikeramos4730]

Okay while I know many people seem to hate the newer music, I personally LOVED the remake they did of Meridian Dance, the final boss theme. That's about it though. Not much else.

[@Cheerfuljochan]

Am I the only one that prefer the new version of thanatos boss theme? It has an actual theme and that bass is god tier that reminds me of Seiken densetsu 3 in style.

[@lloydnorval1989]

Poor Dyluck. That guy was a proper awesome guy

[@horrorsans3676]

I never liked him, kinda was rooting for Randi to stick up with Primm after the end lmao

[@lloydnorval1989]

@@horrorsans3676 good point, I guess he was only nice at the end cos he knew he was screwed 😅 he did seem a bit of a douche in some ways haha Randi seemed more suitable

[@horrorsans3676]

@@lloydnorval1989 yeah, I honestly didn't buy his whole last sacrifice. Like, he showed he was able to push back Thanatos right? Yet he fracking stab and almost killed Primm back before the vampire boss, like, bro? You treat your girl like that when you can figth thanatos influence? Lmao. I wished the remake did expand more on the interactions and story though. Anyway, it's a great game.

[@Cloud-pg9ej]

I love thos game very much, but i was hopeing if there are extra quest or a better happy ending😢

[@SlyBeast]

I can't believe you platinum'd this. I just could not get the Cockatrice Cap or the final orbs from Wolf Lords and Master Ninjas to drop.

[@tyrelcollins1649]

The SNES captures the trueness of that last scene they should make a remake to redo this remake so it can be more close to the snes

[@tyrelcollins1649]

@PLEASENINTENDONT well it's the scene before the battle with the mana beast the snes version you felt the impact and emotion how they felt the boy about fighting the mana beast and all of them feel about the Sprite using his last of mana or hell fade away. I like the way the sprite explains his purpose better in the nes he just wasnt talking he probably was raising his voice a little and after he encourage the boy they ran into battle not walk your right that it was bitter sweet but I guess that what made us love the game because of that shocking and sad ending

[@xxphillips]

If something isn't broke you don't need to fix it. Too much unneeded fixing in this remake. It's like a beta version with 3d graphics made on more powerful hardware. I love the SNES version.

[@tyrelcollins1649]

@@xxphillips nah snes is better wayyyy better this remake wasnt really needed if your not gona do it correctly

[@xxphillips]

@@tyrelcollins1649 100% agree

[@xxphillips]

@@tyrelcollins1649 Did you think I was saying SNES version was broken and this pile of trash was fixing it?

[@deathdrive7032]

I like the visuals quite a lot, and I'm okay with the way they handled the music, but I wish they had done a bit more nuanced voice acting.

[@lorddio2737]

The japanese dub is better it has kensho ono "I Giorno Giovana have a sword"

[@SivakD]

29:09 - That's it for the Mana Beast's defeat? SNES at least had something unique...

[@bapt_andthebasses]

True, that's horrible. How could they think that was acceptable

[@MidoseitoAkage]

You can change the music to the classic if you want that version.

[@bobtheduck]

Some of the new music was OK, but most of it just didn't work. It didn't match the tone of the original at all. Some of the songs are discordant when the originals weren't, and even the nice sounding ones just don't work in the context.

[@Artificialraven]

The Pure Land song I think is the best example of this. The remake song lost the kind of ethereal & mystical tone of the original.

[@jeffondrement160]

New music is from Yuzo Koshiro (Act Raiser, Ys etc.)

[@randybradley4151]

Just go to the audio options and change the music back to the original SNES version.

[@bobtheduck]

Already did that, but I always switch back at a new song because I want to see what they did. Almost always disappointed. I mean, I love the FFX remake music. I think they did a great job with that. I wish they had been more faithful to the original music. They could have improved on the 16 bit sounds and not radically changed the music.

[@SpeedStar1642]

The Angel's Fear song actually improved for example

[@rogue8533]

Thank you for showing every weapons and monsters.

[@dunnyboy3444]

Gay

[@AliAhmed-bu7gp]

This remake is good for ps2 not ps4 the graphic of the game its like for ps2

[@JugglernautNr9]

this is ps1 graphics

[@Terestrasz]

To be fair this WAS made for the Vita...

[@Terestrasz]

too much detail and HD. More like PSP-early PS2.

[@Tessdust]

mimimimimmimimimimimimimimimi~

[@lorddio2737]

@@JugglernautNr9 not the cutscenes you are complimenting ps1

[@Shiranaisora88]

I got a little teary from the dialogue of the Mana tree and Dyluck dying, but man, I wish they animated these scenes. And lengthened the dialogue. :(

[@roywallace6574]

Shiranaisora88 I still get teary when I see Popoi leave 😢😢

[@themadmallard]

the voice sample in leave enough time for love sounds like the chorus of Pilentze Pee

[@TheBanishedWind]

I find it interesting that the Mana Sword looks like its _Brave Exvius_ incarnation instead of a take on the Rusty Sword.

[@TheBanishedWind]

Plus the fact that the Rusty Sword looks more like Excalibur instead, but that made sense when I saw that Adventures Of Mana used both models when it was released two years prior.

[@TheEsCoPoLaMiNa]

They should've never "changed" the original music

[@gamerinklingreturns2450]

Popoi in som remake does sounded much like Meggy from SMG4

[@Wizkid_Utopia]

I like how I got to know about this game from Crush Crush.

[@sahilhossain8204]

Lore of Secret of Mana Remake - Part 13 - Final battles and Ending momentum 100

[@bsplayer6023]

Nice

[@goofycrazygameplays1922]

Totally impossible final boss...i miss every time

[@DiscusvissenRocken]

do you cast Mana Magic on Randi's sword with both Primm and Poipoi?

[@DiscusvissenRocken]

or were you talking about Thanatos/Dark Lich? just use Primm's Lucent Beam and Poipoi's Burst magic to burn him down

[@starfiresam]

Looking up at the stars with you.... reminds me of the ending of secret mana

[@darkwzrd4]

I simply love this game.

[@TheMixedPlateFrequency]

one of the things i liked about the remake is that they show Popoi at the end at least. The Original did not show that and without showing popoi at the end, it made the ending of the Original first one a bit down.. =(

[@alexleon756]

the version (original) of snes YES show that ending, at the end of the credits D: look kzbin.info/www/bejne/pWTYnmCGrpukgqc

[@gordonmotsch4629]

The Original showed it too, if you meen the last Sequence.

[@little_creecher]

Are any of y'all gonna mention how Flammie and Popoi just got Thanos snapped into another world?

[@jaxom07]

Is Popoi holding a staff at the very end? It's hard to tell and weird since a staff wasn't a weapon in the game.

[@JoelAdair]

Never mind… The player charged their weapon.

[@AkaiAzul]

I still don’t know what happened to Flammie at the end.

[@djwho75]

AkaiAzul died.

[@AkaiAzul]

Died like Sprite did or...?

[@gi_nattak]

No, Flammie goes on to Seiken Densetsu 3 :)

[@djwho75]

Sprite don't die,only ends trapped in the mana tree..or something like that.

[@AkaiAzul]

Some fans say SD3 is a prequel, but if not, while a "Father of the Winged Ones" is mentioned (who could be Flammie), he's nowhere to be found. The Flammie found there is female, as opposed to this one being male.

[@TheHarunate]

Where did all the gamelan go in Dark Lich's rearranged theme? And they didn't really show the Mana Beast falling after getting defeated. Overall, Secret of Mana deserves better than this mixed-bag remake. So-so rearranged music, unnoticeable improvement on the AI, various unpolished parts, sub-par voice acting, and 80-90% of the names remain censored like in the original version (such as Dark Priest still being called "Tomato Man", and the currency is still GP instead of Lucre). 40 USD isn't worth it for this remake. In conclusion, it seems like Square-Enix isn't placing that much faith into this remake. If only they will release some patches for this remake, at least to uncensor absolutely all of the names and maintain consistency with the other Mana games in existence.

[@stevenmorton298]

The remake of this was a low budget / low priority project... and it shows.

[@TheHarunate]

Low priority, but under the guise of nostalgia hype. That did not work so well. Honestly, Chrono Trigger DS was the only non-FF port/remake that got good treatment as of now. While the graphics and the sound didn't get upgraded, at least they gave it extra contents and a vastly cleaned-up translation that is free of censorship & space limitations. Secret of Mana Remake, however, only got upgraded graphics. Even then, the graphics makes it look like a mobile game. Translation-wise, I only give them credit for cleaning-up the script to some extent, correcting Gemma & Pamaela (previously Jema & Phanna), and uncensoring the "Weapons of Hope". Aside from these, they failed miserably because either because of thick nostalgia goggles, pure laziness, or most likely both.

[@now192002]

Wow a loading screen for every part of the level, they ruined this game.

[@everlastingauraX]

To be fair, with more graphics, its easier that way.

[@jonathankozenko]

Now, I can't be the only one that, when playing this on my PS4, would crash the system whenever it loaded the shot at 29:17.. Had to kill the Mana Beast, put it in Sleep mode and continue a few hours later......

[@yusakug]

After this disappointing remake, Square Enix needs to bring the Secret of Mana Collection for the Switch over here, so that today's gamers can play the classics if they want to, and so that us old fans can finally have an officially translated version of Seiken Densetsu 3.

[@InsanoRider777]

yusakug yeah, totally a disappointment. I mean, they did precisely what the fans wanted and retained all the core mechanics of the game while updating graphics. SOOOOOO *disappointing*.

[@Maikeru101]

yusakug they made this remake too short and easy

[@yusakug]

It is disappointing when they could have done so much more, including putting in some of the stuff that was forced to be cut out when the game was converted to a SNES cart. It was originally planned for the SNES CD ROM, and when they took it over to cart, they were forced to cut quite a lot of content to make it fit. This is not a bad remake by any means, but it is disappointing, because they could have done a lot more than they did with this.

[@InsanoRider777]

yusakug eh that's just being nitpicky. The game didn't need that content to be one of the best games ever made and the remake sure doesn't need them either. I'm just glad the game got a remake and am looking forward to getting it.

[@randybradley4151]

+yusakug You complain about this game not being on the Switch and also the fact that they didn't put the parts that had to be cut out of the CD-ROM version. Well if Nintendo didn't tell SONY piss off with their CD attach that they were developing for Nintendo none of this would never have happened the way it did. So, Really blame Nintendo.

[@gi_nattak]

lol why stop/restart the final boss song for the Mana sword >_

[@ellesoreanimal6055]

How long did you farm for all the rare orbs?

[@MazterZephyr]

I didn't really want to think about it while I was doing it because of how unfun it was. Maybe around 4 hours? It was about 6 between the last save on video and the actual finish time, and in that time I got the orbs and unique gear from the Fortress, and did level 7 -> 8 on all magic. The orbs definitely took longer than the equipment drops. Must be at least 12 hours in total spent grinding skills and farming drops.

[@ellesoreanimal6055]

Thanks for answering! I got one more question. Is Neko somewhere in the mana fortress? I never found him in the original but the guide said he's there somewhere.

[@MazterZephyr]

I don't believe so, I went pretty much everywhere inside and I also haven't heard about that before. He does show up round the back of the Mana Palace (seen in part 11), but not the Fortress afaik.

[@CordeliaWagner1999]

The gameplay is extremely repetetive. No Puzzles, no rewards for exploring, just going from A to B fighting Monsters. That's so numb.

[@MegaSupersonic18]

I waited for a great "Mystic Invasion" and "Meridian Dance" remix themes! But no... : ( Not enough emotions for me!

[@skyplanetminecraft]

nice i sold all the the stuff i dont needed nice end

[@skyplanetminecraft]

maybe i choose the wrong Skin for the charackter

[@skyplanetminecraft]

but why are you using the Magic in the time when you can attack? its better to use Magic when the beast is behind

[@edwinrich3185]

it would have been nice if they added a little extra to the ending .... so disappointing its exactly the same

[@cajoan5556]

The ost were raped but the playgame seems legit

[@lorddio2737]

JooooJoooo

[@spiculicious]

They did mah boi Thanatos-senpai dirty butchering his song like that. I wish there was a way to switch it out for that new Alternate Ver. which is his ACTUAL battle theme, not this abomination.

[@onlinetooutdoor2382]

Oracle sounds great!

[@KH-ft4ut]

Damn the Mana Beast SUCKS!! After trying for ½ hour I finally gave up and came here to watch the ending. Possible one of the worst boss designs I've ever encountered, absolutely not worth the trouble IMO... what a let down ending to an otherwise good game :(

[@CHamlin86]

Oh. My. God. The music in the remaster is ludicrously horrible.

[@mrbleak9873]

Omfg how did they butcher this game so horribly?

[@magicemperor1117]

The new music is absolutely disgusting

[@croftmister8418]

Déception ...

[@cac1700]

Disgrace...

[@nastang87xx]

Thanks for the play through! I've been playing through my SNES version along side yours. After watching your series I can definitely say I became less and less excited about the remake as things went along. In fact I feel like it started off well but then started to fall apart the further the game progressed. While I didn't expect much with the voice acting, I found an alarming majority of it to be incredibly TOO cheesy although I did enjoy the Inn conversations. I liked how the remake gave the elementals more personality and soul like other Secret of Mana games did and I liked the artistry of the environments to be honest (except for the Pure Land, WAY too light and cheerful; the original was dark, mysterious, and eerie.). I think I agree with you on not doing ENOUGH to the point of where it feels like there just wasn't much thought put into what a modernized idea of the original soul of the game should be. The soundtrack was incredibly polarizing for me. Loved some tracks, HATED others. I think why a lot of people harp on the soundtrack is because at the time, soundtracks gave games like this with no voice acting and only a few dimensions of connecting with the player on an emotional level. Music was one of those connections. I think it's very difficult to capture the fundamentals of what makes old games like this so damn good in new era technology and conceptual thinking. Part of what makes those old games so good on 16 bit platforms is that because there's less technology, no voice acting, sprite figures, less movements, more basic animations etc etc, the player can create in their own imagination what some of these characters sound like, their personalities, and the connections they make with the characters. All in all I think if the price comes down to maybe $10 or so on PS4 I'd play it. But for $40? I just can't. As you said, too underwhelming. Thanks again, really enjoyed the experience.

[@MazterZephyr]

I agree with a lot of this, and sadly I'd also agree that this game isn't really worth full price. I would say maybe half would be fair. Having limitations does often seem to strangely make things better, but it might not be only from the viewer's perception. My thought is that with a narrower range of possibilities, it gives a smaller, more clearly defined area that skilled creators can really focus their efforts into to make the best thing possible within those limits. While without such strict limitations, they can easily spread their efforts too thin trying to cover too much or aim unrealistically high. Clear, solid direction is a very underrated positive factor when creating something. Using music as an example, a lot of orchestral remixes of stuff from old games really overdo it and seem to be competing to use as many instruments as possible to sound 'epic', and in doing so lose the simple, direct melodies that drove the original chiptune tracks. Motoi Sakuraba is a good example of this stylistic progression, if you compare some of his works between 16-bit and 32+-bit systems.

[@davedesdre]

Looks like I'm one of the rare ones that like The Oracle remix. Still gets my blood pumping

[@Maikeru101]

They ruined the best song in the game with this remake music for thanatos, that battle was always awesome for it's music and that is why I would just stay alive so I can hear it

[@Artificialraven]

There's an audio option in the game to change the music back to the original SNES score. Some of the remake songs were hit or miss for me.

[@scipion3679]

Well there is another version who is much closer to the original

[@patrickfoxchild2608]

Try this one; kzbin.info/www/bejne/r3yvooCCa8-tbJo

[@Antnj81]

I'm so pissed off. No matter where I stand and no matter where I try to attack the Mana Beast, it always comes up as a miss. I charged up with the mana magic and lunar magic and it does NOTHING. Is this some kind of a bug or something?

[@MarMaxGaming]

Man, even the sound effect as you toggle through the menus sounds like a little squeak toy.. it’s sad to rip on this due to the fact that people actually remade this game.. something many people were enthusiastic for.. but man, why’d they have to make it so over the top cutsie and cheap.

[@furorteutonicus9045]

What the heck is with that upbeat remix of the ending song of the original? It does not fit at all!

[@CordeliaWagner1999]

Most of the music was chhanged in a way it doesn't fit

[@AMPK.Michel]

it is cool that the remake is so nearly created to the original. Thank you for this!

[@lancewinchester1000]

Yes, "The Oracle" is completely different but it's an artistic choice of Kikuta himself. He arranged a few songs in the soundtrack.In the full OST, there's an awesome alternative version of the song who is very near to the original. Different style but it's not a bad thing to offer something new.

[@Harry64278]

Why is he called Dark Lich? Wasnt his name Thanatos or something

[@chiefflash]

and just like that the 16 bit charm is totally non present lol

[@StarRings]

Boy, they really screwed up the music with this remake.

[@ExodusCore]

Huh...they removed boss fights like the third fight against Ghestar? Why? Also... how the hell did they manage to make the final boss might less awesome than it was in the original? In the Original they pushed the graphics on that final boss and made him feel really big as he blocked out the screen when he was close. The music was also stronger. But in this one they have made the final boss look small.

[@Gokuless]

Uh..they didn't remove Ghestar third battle 'n'

[@raxfox2394]

You actually battle him at the very end of the Mana Palace when Thanatos is just about rising the Mana Fortress....so this battle takes part in the room before the Dark Lich. Kind of confusing

[@tek512]

Man, they sure ruined the Mana Beast fight.

[@TheAusar]

I just watched over this and the fact you have to load every time you go into a new section pisses me off. Like cmon even the SNES game didn't have that.

[@melissajayne5888]

Popoi/Glitzi tho😍

[@klausherro653]

I tried fighting him with half the Hp you got, dammn what lvl are they at? lol

[@leandrolopes9369]

Eu preciso de um ps4

[@darkdesert541]

Nice gameplay!!!

[@Conflictproject69]

I legit couldn't handle this game RPG Just don't impress me anymore there all the same story hero beats bad guy to save the world

[@Scott89878]

Well, the original game back in 1996 was the first time I ever seen a game like this and I was extremely impressed back then. Today, I still like it because it was the first. I guess I played Dungeons of Daggorath and Drakkhen before this game and they were more primitive RPGs, but this one was the first to win me over. Then I saw Mario RPG, which was a lot of fun. Then I later tried Secret of Evermore, which was different but interesting. But from there, I discovered Chrono Trigger and FF6 and they were all really really good. But, I could understanding trying to come into the 3D remake without the historical context of it. Secret of Mana really had a swallow plot, but the locations, elementals, and the world building, and the action and multiplayer combat, is what made it innovative. It seems this remake tried to flush out these characters and the plot though, which is good.

[@asneakylawngnome5792]

I don’t get the hype around this series. I’m sorry. I’m trying so hard to get into it. Just beat the original and now playing Trials while watching this. But, that ending was fucking terrible. The whole games terrible. I can’t help it. Game sucks imo :/ like, the fuck kinda ending is that?

[@jackall-trades6149]

It's nostalgia, honestly. You really needed to play it in 93. Very few games had stories, and even fewer were interactive. For many Secret of Mana was their first experience like this. If I played it now, I'd think it was trash. Back then though, it was an experience

[@kinganarkzie]

I say this much, it has a much better translation than the SNES original

[@konomisotechnic]

I did Primm cosplay a few days ago(Posted instagram and X) ,so I felt nostalgic and watched the video.