Secretly The Best Weapon ? - Space Engineers

With a lot of discussion and testing I feel that this weapon in space engineers is starting to get overlooked so let break it down and I will lay out my argument on why I think its the best. #spaceengineers #gaming #games #videogames #space
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[@malrikcarsten5157]

i find missiles usefull in 2 situations. 1: forcing your target to change course thus controlling the battlespace and 2: once the targets armor has been cracked open, move into close range and let rip with a volly, that can really gut your target

[@jkjkrandom]

Yes I once designed a ship that fired an artillery gun and then a missile barrage, it could gut a lightly armored grid in one or to shots in ideal conditions

[@mrassassin1292]

I used to use Missiles to take down enemy weapons

[@mariaragonese2543]

This

[@IsfetSolaris]

The issue with missiles is the projectile speed. In a combat scenario, it's only useful at close range spam. They have a use case, but the issue is that the meta in this game (turn fighting) doesn't favor rockets due to the range it's performed at. The one big thing in it's favor is that it forces enemies to focus on avoiding it, hindering their movements. It's a support weapon, but it's not viable to replace your artillery or railguns with them unless you're going for a brawl at point blank, which is often a poor strategy.

[@mariaragonese2543]

Look up the Kochi Class Destroyer. I added more artillery turrets to mine on the sides just behind the front firing battery and I swapped out a couple of the missile launchers for artilleries for the very reason you described. It has 8 missile pods arranged in a line down the center and at that range it is actually really effective and it's a really good turn fighter as you say. I consider it a heavy gunship or Corvette, not a destroyer. It can punch a little bit above its weight, it will take out anything smaller than a light Cruiser. It's not big enough or heavily-armed enough to take out what I would consider a capital ship therefore I don't think it meets the criteria for a destroyer. That is unless of course the kochi itself is the most powerful ship on the server making it a capital ship. That was the case on the server I was dominating. I was the most advanced which is sad because I'm absolute garbage. I just learned how to print ships.

[@raythe9264]

spoken like a true DPSer

[@NapalmNarcissus]

Use a sensor to only enable them on drones when at a sufficiently close range, and boom

[@peanutcat1610]

turn fighting isnt the meta. spin to win is

[@IsfetSolaris]

@@peanutcat1610 Same thing, different communities. Regardless, my point stands.

[@saintmayhem9873]

1) I think we need to stop calling them missiles. They're not. They have no guidance system, they are rockets. 2) I think rockets are the most effective 3) my favorite is the railgun

[@pikpikgamer1012]

Better yet I suggest adding homing missiles and renaming what we currently have “dumb (fire) missiles”

[@woody32854]

The reason why people hate the rocket launcher is because it’s too slow, there’s no point in how effective it is against armour if it can’t hit said armour cos they just dodge it. Fair point put across tho

[@danielboatright8887]

It can be useful for some things. have a couple foward facing ones and fire a few spreads at ships when closing, you cold force them manuver rather than whatever their plan was.

[@BinaryKiller_Recoded]

I don't use the missile launcher for 1 reason alone.... They are Hellfire missiles, they are supposed to be guided... which they are not.... only reason I sometimes use them is because of the mod called Vanilla Homing Missiles

[@artiviser1237]

They should be cheaper, like Assault cannon shells while unguided. I think their current cost only makes sense if they were homing

[@BinaryKiller_Recoded]

@@artiviser1237 I agree, as long as they are unguided, they should be standard non-uranium cost.... In fact, they should be allowed to take silver instead and increase more damage as homing missiles are meant to penetrate more than explode

[@miltenignis1017]

Large grid railguns usually take 1 minute to recharge. If you have a staggered setup or artillery as secondary weapons (plus turrets), that's not really that long in most larger fights. Just wanted to point that out, as you used the (potentially misleading) time when not supplied with enough power in this video. Other than that, nice video I can mostly agree with. Some off-meta content ;)

[@JayJayFlip]

Every Weapon is good for different class ships and every class ship is good against and weak against ships on a case by case basis. I find rockets are good at helping turrets wipe out larger Light armor ships with less maneuverability or wipe out thruster bays and large targets on ships. Art and Railgun Spam is good but can be countered with tactics, like 5k jumps or Drone Inertia Missiles.

[@GOPGonzo]

I use the forward firing missile battery much the way torpedo's were used in WWII. A volley during the close in hopes of a lucky knockout hit. Then hold fire while the maneuvering battle is taking place. Finally once the enemy's maneuver capability has been degraded they can be used for the knockout blow. There are certainly better pilots than me, but I just can't score hits reliably with rocket during a swirling dogfight. That is what massed Gatling gun and autocannon turrets are for. Concentrate on flying and let the weapons do the targeting themselves.

[@badgerwildgaming6908]

I did a video on why point defence is bad in SE. Mostly it comes down to turret speed ammo spread and the size of the rocket. It's is much easier to doge a rocket than it is to shoot them down.

[@shouldb.studying4670]

If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a rocket

[@LastStandGamers]

@@shouldb.studying4670 I think if you use your rockets at close range they can be overwhelming. I wouldn't want to fire them at a longer range due to the cost.

[@tehbeard]

Rockets, IMO, only have a chance of being viable with the AI update. The AI update offers a potential option for "cheaply printed", disposable rocket drones, designed to rapidly approach close range and unleash their payload at a range that's unavoidable. Because the prevailing strat of space engineers (be moving quick and be somewhat nimble to avoid people leading the target, the target being you), makes rockets fairly expensive for ammo shot vs. real damage dealt.

[@friedec3622]

The drones is still expensive. It requires platinum for the engines.

[@hvymtal8566]

Space Engineers's weapon design is very carefully thought out. Everything has strengths, weaknesses, and its own place. It's definitely perplexing to me that people are discouraging the use of the rockets. It does have some heavy limitations, but its upsides make it a situationally very strong weapon, one worth taking if you have specific kinds of targets in mind (said targets being actually a very wide variety)

[@LastStandGamers]

Your correct its all about setting up your grid with a balance of weapons that cover each others short falls.

[@tomleon4272]

I remember thinking warfare 2 will add vanilla guided missilles and pdc-s

[@weiserwolf580]

that's why we have mods

[@Humanoidmp]

It technically added vanilla PMWs because you can make those with CTC

[@tomleon4272]

@@weiserwolf580 let's just say xbox has a 'limited' amount

[@user-ul8hj3uq1y]

You can make guided missiles with a custom turret controller, look up tutorials if you want to make some

[@IsfetSolaris]

@@user-ul8hj3uq1y no please don't, turret controller missiles aren't effective and are really bad for server performance.

[@saxmo8024]

My favorite strategy, even tho it might be a bit dishonorable or impractical in some servers because of PCU, is a variation on the Picard Manuver- have a rally jump point outside render range from the target, like 4km, use that as the "hub" in a "hub and spoke" attack pattern. I have an excel file where I can plug in my targets distance from me at that point, and it spits out the attack points. I jump onto the unsuspecting target from 2km, unleash rail and artillery cannon salvo, and jump out to the hub, and quickly jump to the other side of the target, prince and repeat. This is heavy on jump drive use, requiring atleast 2JD'S fully charged and 2 charging at all times. And alwayse have a back up jump drive ready to bug out if they get close to the hub. Obviously this grid needs atleast some Gatling and other turrets for close in defense against any jetpack dudes.

[@williamm.3612]

Ancient knowledge? If u want a brawler - fixed spam. Anything else - ElseSpam Pro vanil pvp - Small grid fixed spam ( since per block dps is king here)

[@patsey3199]

I love using the Rocket Launchers on small grid ships and custom turrets in conjunction with the Whip’s Salvo Scipt. Allows you to fire from multiple pods one after another increasing how much ammo you bring with you

[@KOSMOS1701A]

this is exactly why i love missiles as opposed to the other ballistic weapons, shells penetrate, missiles detonate. I'd rather take splash damage loads of internal damage and potentially destroying things from the inside which results in free floating shrapnel, or components/undetonated ammo which results in more damage as opposed to just straight up putting holes in ships.

[@r3dp9]

There's also the deterence factor. Once you know an enemy has missiles, you have to be wary of fighting at certain angles, distances, and speeds. It denies opportunities. To a degree, this is true of all weapons, so having at least one weapon for each role (short range burst, sustained midrange harassment, long range sniping) is ideal in a perfect world. Even a small ships probably wants to have at least 2 of the three options.

[@Gamer12666]

Having variety is almost a necessity when it comes to ships and battles in general, being able to adapt to different situations with different weapons is a solid strategy. The only thing that wouldn't benefit from multiple types of weapons would be drones, building them cheap and reproducible en masse is their strong suit.

[@quaternarytetrad4039]

Thanks for the video! So in essence, the missiles do decent damage, with a large damage radius that bypasses armor blocks. I think the * *ahem* * impact of this weapon system is quite far reaching. It means you as a ship builder must either be extremely careful about the internal layout of your ships systems, which has an infinite list of tradeoff considerations, or you invest in spaced armor, which by itself adds a lot of extra mass and requires more resources to build. If you want your ship with spaced armor to maintain a certain level of maneuverability, you would have to add more engines and more gyros, which in turn requires more power generation and potentially more fuel, all of which adds more mass and requires more resources to build.

[@Lem_Nade_Music]

You forgot a crucial aspect of the missile launchers : It absolutely destroys thrusters, killing the mobility and allowing to land even more shots . Even remotely close missiles can absolutely breach the thrusters, exposing the systems behind wich can be then decimated with a volley of heavy-hitters. This effect is even more present on thruster-pod setups as one volley WILL kill all forward momentum by destroying the thruster pods that are very often at the back . So this is my take on the missiles and why fighter squadrons or even one good fighter pilot can cripple the mobility of even large ships .

[@Mr.Schnaps]

One thing you failed to mention is your only going to do damage with rounds that connect, you could have the most broken gun damage wise but if you cant hit your shots its not gonna matter. While the rocket launcher can do a lot of damage in an area on your target if all the missiles hit unless its a static grid or an overly large ship that can barely move most of your shots are gonna miss or hit all over the place where its not gonna end up doing much.

[@LastStandGamers]

I think most people fire the rockets far to early and by the time there close there out of ammo. Save the rockets till your in spitting distance and then unload then get the hell out of there.

[@somdudewillson]

@@LastStandGamers That's assuming that you even manage to do that, and even if you do, by that point you could have inflicted a whole bunch of damage with weapons not useless in long range, though.

[@Comicsluvr]

The ammo cost is a big factor in Survival. As with all things, missile launchers have their uses. Firing on a base or a slow target that can't dodge very well is a good example. However, when firing at a target that is moving away there is plenty of time to intercept the missiles or even run out of range. I am a huge fan of the Vanilla Homing Missile mod.

[@jalakor]

I think it depends on what resources you have access to. If you’re on the Earth-like planet as your start, getting platinum and uranium for rockets, artillery shells, and railgun sabots is difficult (unless you can trade for those resources sustainably enough to consider it worth a cost). As a result, I’ve been a fan of Autocannons, they sound cool, do punchy damage, and don’t require uranium or platinum. Gatlings are good too, I just like the way the Autocannon feels and looks on my ships. That said, the ideal configuration is a combination of weapons on a ship. For large ships, mounting a Railgun or Artillery cannon to it to launch long range attacks against slow/static enemies, then having an array of turrets and a battery of fixed rocket launchers for close range slugging it out is a solid option. For small ships, it heavily depends on the role of the ship: For a “heavy” fighter, I’d say slapping an Assault cannon or Railgun on it to punch through armor or take out/damage turrets from a distance would be a decent choice, despite their relatively limited damage potential, and I’d always follow up with a set of autocannons or Gatling guns and a pair or two of non-reloadable rockets. For “medium” and “light” fighters, I’d do the same thing as the Heavy, but skip the Railguns/Assault cannons.

[@Raugharr]

Turreted clang guns or other player made weapon contraptions are my favorite. Might not be the most efficient, but if they hit that's just so satisfying!

[@foxtrotunit1269]

The thinking of which single weapon is best, does change significantly, when you start chaining guns together 9 chained smal grid assault cannons fired steadily, surely do more dmg in a real fight, then a large grid 1x1 missile launcher *while occupying cca the same space*

[@user-ul8hj3uq1y]

Quite a viable tactic if your enemy can't keep a distance of above 1400 meters

[@user-ul8hj3uq1y]

I feel like KEENs had just forgotten about buffing missiles after releasing warfare 2 update. They were arguably less effective than gattlings before the update due to lower velocity, rpm, extremely high cost and difficulties reloading. And now after there are guns that just outrange missiles by 1200 meters, they are just completely obsolete. You've had a point about high rate of fire of a large grid missile launcher. Well, you can get similar fire rate out of artilleries via scripts or timers, but also get a much higher damage per shot and a chance of hitting a target due to higher velocity and range, same thing with railguns, but even more velocity and damage. Also availability of high penetration weaponry encouraged people to armour up their ships, so now most of ships for a completely unstaged pvp have 3+ layers of heavy armour at the front while also having good mobility to avoid getting hit at all if possible, meaning you'd have to get a lot of missiles in the same place to get through that armour, and it wouldn't be easy. Also you haven't mentioned arguably the biggest disadvantage of missiles - their PCU. Large grid missile launcher takes 825 PCU, while all other guns take just 80

[@orion9026]

Funny thing about the railgun. I built a medium sized screening ship with Two railguns at the front, because I wanted to test the "Railguns do explosive damage" mod, I then found a military escort, shot at it, and 60% of it disappeared and SE just had no idea what to do, so it set the Military Escorts speed to 0m/s. I am keeping that mod lmao.

[@Doubldra90N]

for small grids, ~15-20 gatling guns does the trick (or your direct fire weapon of choice), a turret or 2 for target spotting, shooting engineers or other small grids. for large grids, i haven't found anything more reliable than non-missile turrets and kiting (without getting into scrips). kinda dumb when you chase someone and their bullets can hit you but yours despawn before reaching them but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ stopped playing before the new turrets came out but I'd imagine range + kiting is still pretty uncountable by conventional means

[@Celestial_Wing]

Its interesting how people forget about Rounds per minute. It can make a difference, someone with a UMP is going to give someone with a Kar98k a lot of trouble.

[@fulconini]

To be fair any weapon is super effective in larger quantities. If you for example get a bunch of autocannons together you can go as far as to oneshot large grid armour. thanks for defending missiles btw

[@MrBlackdragon1230]

The only time I take missiles seriously as if I use the vanilla homing missile mod. I use artillery turrets otherwise. But most of my combat is my base versus something attacking me.

[@DoodleDangWang]

General small grid ships in my experience, missiles were the most likely to be dodged. Furthermore, missile turrets and launchers are usually my first target to disable if I can. I do agree though, they do a lot of damage if they hit...

[@SpaceEngineerErich]

For small grid vs. small grid I just pound with a combo of gats and autocannons and it usually shreds. For Large grid on Large grid I usually don't have rocket turrets, but love having an array of rocket launchers. I tell my turrets to target specific things and when I get in range I will strafe the side of the enemy with a barrage of missiles and that tends to knock out a good amount of their turrets. Meanwhile my turrets are busy chipping away at other turrets, power systems, and thrusters.

[@cirogarcia8958]

I haven't tested it yet, but I think having a custom railgun turret as AAA for base defense is quite an effective defense against small aircraft. You could have one or two of those, and then gatling guns for rapid fire, and have the railguns just for punching holes in the enemy that the gatling guns can then fire into and cause trouble

[@death13a]

I see alot of flak on railgun. Pros of railgun is it's almost instantious hit and usually component destruction. I think people expect too much from railgun. It's great vs slow and heavy armoured ships as with enough railguns placed at different positions will honeycomb any ship. It forces your enemies to have lightly armoured ships which missiles, gatling, autocannon can deal with. Best weapon is the one that enemy has to always be aware.

[@CMDROldDuck]

There are three reasons I swapped out my fixed missile launcher for a fixed artillery gun in my space-based destroyer: 1) Range - I can do some serious sniping with the fixed artillery, and the accuracy is pretty darn good even at long range! 2) Toughness - The missile pod is extremely fragile compared to the artillery gun. 3) PCU - The missile pod costs 10x the PCU of an artillery gun, and for how I play, I just don't have a use case for missiles that justify the cost in PCU (which on Keen vanilla servers is a limiting factor). I kept my missile ammo and some shoulder rocket launchers for scenarios where a few rockets might come in handy, and I have a spot on my destroyer where I can easily throw on a missile turret if I ever need it.

[@FilmForgers]

Honestly, I have had great luck with the Railgun in fights with my friends. It is still a very useful weapon in its own right. I usually use it as my opener and aim right down their bows. I can take out several guns, maybe several key conveyor tubes, which can render other guns and engines useless. I've even it hydrogen tanks or ammo filled cargo containers embedded in their ships causing huge chain reactions. It all depends. The only time it doesn't work as well as when I hit a cluster of engines or gyros and it stopes the rail round short.

[@lazyidiotofthemonth]

For Capital ships I also build a 6x8 or so battery of rocket launchers pointing down, my tactics are to use the spinal mounted rails guns for a centermass shot or against obvious Bridge locations, aiming to pass over their ship, and using the rocket batter to batter the top of their ship from close range, I've found that a 19 rocket barrage from 48 rocket launchers spaced every other grid will shred the armor apart unless they have 3 or more layers of heavy armor. Before the rails, the Rockets were always my spinal mount.

[@VeneficusCubes]

I disagree with how weapons in SE are balanced. I get that the weapons have to have short range in order to keep the game fair What I don't get is why gatling gun has the highest dps and second highest effective accuracy(Actual accuracy+velocity+rate of fire)

[@user-ul8hj3uq1y]

Not the highest dps. If we are talking about single gun dps, then artillery wins, and if we're talking about dps per block of frontal projection regardless of range, then autocannon wins

[@KMCA779]

Honestly I'm amazed we don't see more broadside exchanges with rockets. When you get those big ship engagements eventually people end up close together. I've got a ship with an array behind hanger doors. People think it's for fighters but then when they get close the doors open up, I swap to an aiming camera and then just volley away. I find that by the time things get close you're going to have worn down or outright destroyed the armor... then the rockets just find those openings and shred the internals.

[@mariaragonese2543]

For attacking at range definitely have the artillery. If you coordinate your fire with other ships then you can really suppress the enemy at range. You still need to have standoff weapons though because people are still going to charge in. They're not going to just let you sit there and shoot at them at 2,000 m. This also works for the Orks. ALWAYS split your forces into at least two groups. Never try to exchange fire in a ship-of-the-line fashion. Split up, create distance and whichever friendly group the enemy decides to Chase keep retreating just outside of their range blasting them with rear-facing weaponry. That's right your ships need to have artillery and Torpedoes firing behind as well. At those speeds it is possible for you to fire the missiles technically out of range but since the enemy is approaching you from the rear, at high-speed, they will fly into range of the missiles and or artillery fire. And while you're doing all of that, the other vessel in your group start attacking that ship from the rear. Also if you're going to be firing your artillery let that person know. There is this effective little gunboat called the iron devil. It's orange and black and it kind of looks like one of the spaceships from Independence Day except there is a empty space in the center. It has two custom Auto Cannon turrets on either side that need to be rebuilt once you print the ship but it is very easy to mass-produce and with very little modification it can be turned into a drone. The version I retrofitted had the artillery replaced with the 880 mm strike torpedoes.

[@richardkirkland6805]

The reloadable one is actually surprisingly usable, considering that a fighter would need large conveyors anyway because of the large conveyor port on the back, and the fact that most larger cargo containers and tanks on small grids use the larger conveyor ports anyways.

[@jordy1278]

Hi, I know its nothing to the video, but could you possibly add drf stuff to the workshop, I would love to be able to fly all those neat ships

[@LastStandGamers]

Hello its been a long time since we did the series pabble has many of the ships uploaded and i have 1 or 2 on my workshop but with all the updates in-between you might have to do some upgrades to ge them working and effective in the latest patch.

[@ethanwright7111]

For me, the problem with missiles is their speed, and resulting effective range. If you're going up against anything smaller than a pretty good sized cruiser and you're anything outside of 400m a good 80% of your missiles are probably going to be dodged, and if you're going after fighters, just forget it. Their cost only further destroys their usefulness in these contexts. The one application I can see for missiles is by fighters against larger ships. Rocket launchers can fire sizeable volleys in quick succession, allowing a light fighter to let loose a high amount of damage from close range and then get away. Other than that, though, I can't see much of an application. Hopefully in warfare 3, they'll either speed up missiles or give them a guided version with better range.

[@SpaceEngineerErich]

Also, not related I was thinking about the potential things we can do with the upcoming update with AI and the event controller. I was thinking that we might be able to create preprogrammed evasive maneuvers with relative ease. So after a fighter takes a run and then bugs out can hit a button and the fighter will automatically dip and roll, change speed, list to the side, etc.

[@iitim2152]

On my big ships missile spam is the way to go with frw rail guns for finess work, and a few artilery turrets to focus on enemy turrets.

[@Brenhydra]

The question of which heavy armament (Artillery, Missile, Assault Cannon) is the tradeoff between safety and power. A missile barrage can wipe the floor with most armored ships, but you need to be up close to make the most out of it, where you're just as likely to get your own ship wrecked in the process. Artillery guns, especially when you get them into groups that are generally shooting at the same target can put on some serious damage to things like propulsion or power while keeping your ship safely out of the range of most guns, and pound for pound is cheaper than a missile. However, it fires slow, and unless you have the volley script it fires infrequently as well. So it's best use as a first strike gun than a buzzsaw Briefly summarized: In terms of volley weapons, Skirmisher craft should use missiles, while heavier craft should use Artillery.

[@Calaban619]

While missiles arent very good at punching through armor, they are good as scrubbing the soft bits off the the exterior with their blast radius; like turrets. After the first warfare update changes to armor, I noticed this about the missiles. It seemed to be the new point of them. At least for me.

[@BrowncoatGofAZ]

On my survival ship I have 4 Gatling guns, 2 assault cannons, and 2 artillery pieces. I had 2 missile turrets instead at one point, but I prefer keeping my ship more than 800m from the pirate ships. Plus the cannons kept destroying turrets until I increased their distance from the hull.

[@hunnybunnysheavymetalmusic6542]

I would use missiles as chaff for strafing runs. Fire a huge cloud of missiles on the way in to both soak up enemy fire as well as visibly mask me from clear targeting, then, after my strafing run, dump a whole bunch out the back for the exact same purpose. All the smoke, fire, and moving things between the enemy and me help me to survive each run. But so far as the ACTUAL attack, I would be flying in close with a huge barrage of rail guns, followed by gravity bombs. My goal would be to fly JUST behind my missiles while accelerating, then at the right moment, unload with my rail guns from close in to reduce the chances of them missing, then release warheads right into the holes left by the rail guns.

[@jamesscalzo3033]

Loved the video @LastSyandGamers! Can't wait for the next video man! For me, It would have to come down to the Design of the Ship on whether or not you can have some Missile Batteries at your Disposal. I like to use Star Wars Starships and Starfighters so having Some Missiles on hand, Even if just to be a bit of a nuisance to the Enemy, is better than being stuck with just a Single Railgun. My Favorite Ships are the Arquitens-class Light Cruisers and the Corellian CR 90 Corvettes. Sometimes the CR 90's with have 6 Autocannon and a Twin Assault Cannon Custom Turrets, other times 6 Gatling Guns and a Quad Autocannon Custom Turrets all to get in close and Surround the Enemy like a Swarm of Hornets or Wasps after having their Nests messed with. The Arquitens will usually have 4 Quad Autocannon Custom Turrets, 4 Assault Cannon Emplacements and about 8 Small Grid Missile Tubes on either Side of the Hull with the Assault Cannons. Most Players will use Light Armor so that they can keep their Ships as Light as possible while they build them because most of the Weight will be coming from the Blocks for the Interior be it the Weapons, the Thrusters or even the Reactors. I, on the other hand, have the idea that a Layer of Medium Armor Blocks beneath the Outer Light Armor Blocks over some of the Vital Spaces maybe prove to allow for the Player and His/Her Ship to stay in the Fight a Bit longer albeit at a Likely cost of needing Slightly More Powerful Thrusters to ensure that you can retain the Same speed as you would if you had just Light Armor Blocks. This, combined with the Armament of the Arquitens, would allow me (and anyone else who might want to try this) to Broadside the Enemy and Open up their Ships like a Foil Covering on Food as the Missiles would Damage the Blocks Enough for the Assault Cannons to Punch through and then allow for more fire into the Enemy's Ship and Tear it to shreds. With the new AI Update coming out, the Proposal for Bolstering the Arquitens' Anti-Starfighter Capabilities with up to 24 Custom Gatling Gun Turrets will have to be looked into as now the AI can be Programmed with Scripts and Control Blocks but the New AI Blocks will refine this to include Proper Attack Runs and Retreat Movements. Let me know what you think about this and I'll catch you in your next video man!

[@aurenian8247]

While I do like the weapon limitations in LSG I think it does skew your info a bit. Yes a railgun or artillery cannon doesn't do a whole lot on its own. But you look at ships built with less restrictive meta and you see they use them as volley weapons. Like most of the front of the ship will have heavy guns sticking out of it. So when they get a direct or glancing hit the damage is pretty significant. You can also mount enough to stagger fire them so you don't have downtime. The other factor is projectile speed. With a reasonably agile ship you can dodge missiles fairly easily. At closer ranges dodging artillery and assault cannons is a lot harder. With attack craft I'm starting to get into the territory of having to dodge before I see the shot depending on range. All that said I do think the rocket launchers are a great way to just indiscriminately bomb a target. If you've got the speed to get in close with them you can wreck turrets, thrusters, buried conveyors etc without aiming very precisely. Just have a spread of rockets hit the whole side of the ship.

[@ledfootfam99]

Now they're like 850PCU the most expensive block in the game.

[@socomfan4]

You Can make hydra rocket pods by placeing rocket launches next each other and then set a time bock to a quater second delay .25 for each then you get a much faster volly of missles

[@ZarHakkar]

I feel like the missiles should have some kind of homing capability for locked-on targets. That would make them more worthwhile.

[@kinngrimm]

Depends on server, if it has a speed mod you can pretty much forget about missiles. Has it Weapon Core, Shields, energy weapons or is it all vanilla. There are some very nifty mods out there, which look rather unasuming but have huge impacts and one often only learns about them when one gets crushed and left behind wondering ... what just happened ^^

[@andrewhoughton8606]

Missiles a re useful still on both grids as close range strike that is going to hit and do damge certsinly against external targaets when strafing that is similar with snall ships but they can be put anywhere on the ship

[@nightdagger]

I think it'd be better to qualify it as being the best weapon for widespread collateral damage with no need for pinpoint accuracy that's extremely effective against larger targets at close range, but the missile launcher is nearly useless against smaller "large" grid ships or any but the largest small grid ones unless they've already lost propulsion and can't dodge your shots. If that's the case, they are 100% the go-to weapon for a decisive deathblow, but any projectile that doesn't contact its target does 0 dps, no matter how much payload the round had.

[@thelocalidiot57moist60]

Missiles are not bad its just... not as good for its cost. You could do the same amount of damage with and autocannon, but for less cost, which is important so you can fire more bullets into a target

[@adrewadrew5860]

They should be cheap or guided. But if they will be guided then turrests should be better at shooting them down.

[@angrydragonslayer]

Out of the times i've seen missiles used, i think i've seen 2 hits on targets that weren't already mobility-killed And that was from a ship that shot a concentrated stream of maybe 300 missiles per minute

[@jokroast6912]

clank gun + signs to demoralize your enemy.

[@HikariOnSE]

Got some interesting points... but in general would have to disagree. So first thing to consider. The title of the video suggests to me you are referring to SE in whole, and not just your server. Don't get me wrong, Your server is very cool, got a nice system in place, low block limits on guns, limits on HTs etc. So as a result Rocket launchers make a lot of sense on there. given the HT limit, Ion/atmos im sure are somewhere similar have a 100x worse thrust/weight ratio than HTs. so dodging becomes a lot harder. or rovers, you can only move in 2 axis, with usually fairly slow acceleration. So rocket launchers coming in at the lowest muzzle speed at 200 isnt an issue. Looking at DPS in general, so on your server you limit guns pretty harshly, again this is cool, makes for a very unique meta. However, as the tital of the video suggests you are refering to SE as an whole, where on almost any other server they dont do this. Meaning im not looking for DPS exactly, instead im looking for DPS per surface area, where Autocannons come in highest of all guns at 5000. compare this to a rocketlaucher at 116.923... But if we were to look at cold dps... again autocannons come in almost at the top at 1250, only beaten by the railgun at 1416.66. Now dont get me wrong, the rocketlauncher is pretty close here, coming in at a value of 730.769 - but next thing to consider is damage type, theres 3, being impact, explosion, and penetration... looking at that, if we were to compare 1 rocket launcher vs. 1 autocannon in an ideal world, where all my shots hit ignoring the 5 seconds I have to move at 1km from a rocketlauncher... The AC would deal more damage. However. The rocket does explosion damage... so in that ideal world I would choose rocketlauncher (aka how the meta is setup on your server) However. If I was playing against a competent player with a decent ship - well theres a lot of factors to consider. Theres a lot of types of ships you can build with a lot of diff playstyles, so lets break some down - In general something nearly all ships have on vanilla servers is a grav drive, allowing for acceleration in 2 directions almost instantly. G drives gives F= ma = Thrust = (mass of mass block) * (gravity) = (ammount of grav blocks x 50k) x (amount of g gens x 9.81) ^^ equation for those interested. So this *meta lets call it, allows for anyone to control distance pretty easily, lets say your running 50 railguns on your ship, at first im sure the reload time of 59.21 is scary, but as the title suggests - this is SE in general, so you can run as many as you want! simply get a timer setup, and config it so you can have a constant stream of 50,000 damage per shot... compare this to RL coming in at 500 per shot... But what about muzzle velocity? luckily the railgun shoots at 2k m/s... you have half a second to dodge it at 1km... whereas the rocket launcher they have 5 seconds - so in general SE. I prefer the railgun. As it lets me play at a safe distance, minimalizing repair times after fights, if I was playing on your server I would pref.. well a combination of weapons, would need to look deeper into it, I imagine a wing design ship would do very well (interesting I haven't seen anyone try this on your server yet - especially given the restricted weapons & thrusters?) Anyways- thats my take on Rocket launchers in SE. Summary- In your server, yes rocket launchers are good. In SE in general like the title suggests. No, They are the mathematically worst possible gun in the game - and for those not interested in maths, I can give you alive demonstration any time...

[@brobasticbroham446]

A railgun alpha strike properly executed will mission kill most ships, repositioning can be a issue unless you know how to build your ship for micro jumps and execute them properly artillery in space has no bullet drop and is also viable the whole get in close and spin looks neat but is easily rendered obsolete especially with the stated tactics above.

[@FullMetalFox2]

We have build ships to survive rocket spams for so long, they got really good at it. And with the range and projectile speed of artillery turrets, the "non-meta-build" meta (sounds weird, but meta ships are just walls of railguns with grav drives and a ramming wedge) turned to artillery and corkscrew evasion... vanilla rockets are really bad at that, they just dont hit. And getting close, well if youre both flying same sized ships and the enemy manages to dictate the combat distance enough to effectively utilize rockets, then they are the better builder and/or pilot.

[@conflictzone1]

Large railgun BEST weapon 👌. Railgun spam is the meta, especially on official servers

[@LastStandGamers]

I think spamming anything is op, official servers are like the wildwest.

[@wizardbrandon3544]

i was testing a missile launcher. and it did like 1x1 block area of damage

[@jameskiernan7965]

I haven't played this game but love watching the railgun

[@dmitritelvanni4068]

I tried the tutorial missions again just cuz its been a few years since I've played. I wasnt as skittish and disoriented this time through so i actually played around a bit and basically cheesed my way through the whole thing by spamming rockets and swapping ships when i was just firing rockets from the floor lol. They were unlimited for some reason. The tank mission did take me a few tries tho, mainly cuz i have 0 rover expirience, and also the time i was doing the best and blew the whole entrance to scrap the game crashed cuz the point i was supposed to pass through was basically just dirt by that point lol

[@tehbeard]

re: Opening scene, have the Thargoids invading space engineers as well?

[@Zero_8347]

i dont know much about this game but it sure is fun to learn about

[@ed0c]

there is a mod that enables homing into the the vanilla missile systems. it is a game changer. may not work on your server situation though.

[@00Monkeyz]

Missiles are a weapon of opportunity on small grids. You save them for when your big grids blow a hole with like a rail gun then let'em rip. The AOE makes them so much more effective against internal systems since your damaging sections of like a conveyer system not individual parts. Harder and more costly repairs.

[@socomfan4]

Ive never seen people make hydra rocket pods the rockets do alot more explosive damage because they arrive in seperate instances compared to just one big clump

[@Hilarion05]

about the point of unarming the other vessel - i my point the missiles are a nice tool to broke unarmed turrets - hit a nice group nearby and most turrets are out of the game

[@Gxaps]

Rocket launchers travel speed really kills its effectiveness. Good luck hitting a competent pilot in a competent ship.

[@little_lord_tam]

I built a ECM fighter designed specifically to hit a volley of deadly missiles. Litterly everything else is better than using the missiles. Even dumb bombs.

[@GhostOfSnuffles]

I don't touch multiplayer but in single player survival i settled on the small grid assault cannon because it outranges all the space pirate stuff and the ammo is cheap.. If i need to hit hard then i use suicide drones.

[@mikemarkwilka4135]

825 PCU though! Yikes! That's quite the commitment

[@chrisdon6847]

Prefer multiple decentralized turret autocannons and a tight cluster of forward rocket launchers, few gatlings or spicy meatballs for defense (depending on grid size) Autocannons for long and medium range general all around defense/offense (left in auto computer control), and rocket launcher on a single button for close passes. If I want a longer range attack option (seldom do, not my style) I might go Artillery or more likely custom homing missiles with a printer capability for reload. Do not like railguns, as you said, to slow.

[@mysterymayhem7020]

i make a custom turret using missile launchers giving me the best of both worlds.

[@knutzzl]

My candidate for best weapon is s.e. is the elite grinder

[@LordRazer3]

I would always have at least 2 railguns on a ship. Yes it's unreliable but at the same time you never know when a shot will destroy something vary important

[@alpacaofthemountain8760]

Great video!

[@Ming1975]

I did my own testing, just 1 hole in your ship means the missile's AOE can count inside with BS damage that "somehow" will always go to the most expensive components. Once you punched a hole just blast the missile at it, sometimes even if the blast hits outside beside the hole "somehow" the AOE will counts inside as long as the hole is near the AOE blast. Why? because Space Engineer logic 🙄

[@CSGdesign01]

So much destruction. Can't we all just get along??? 😅

[@gamerelite3989]

for me 1-2 missile launchers are enough i use pmm for big long range damage ( nothing beats warheads on aoe damage ) then when enemy grid comes in its range i let missiles fire for added damage and distraction but pmm units are already giving me alot of that the rest is standard pew pew in your face

[@odd_bobble9106]

TL:DR Missiles suck because they just weaken the users armour My fear with using an abundance of rocket launchers is that the storage of those rockets becomes a weak point in the ship. The way I see it, you ether make your ship venerable to small grids and rail guns, have impractically thick armour, or not have enough rockets to last the length of the battle. As some examples my battleship (in most places) a heavy block and a heavy half block (spaced armour) and is loaded with every turret in the game. While my assault shuttle has 2 retractable rocket pods to prevent any unplanned detonation. The first has thicker armour and has enough room that if an ammunition crate does go off nothing critical is damaged, while the other is small, fast, and only carries 8 rockets (4 volleys). Because of this missiles are at best an anti-personnel/ bunker buster (against static/large and slow grids) weapon, and at worst the most expensive decoration in the game.

[@Snatch698]

Finally. Been keeping them around.

[@knightofxentar]

I'd like to see LastStandGamers go up against Luca The Guide, and reevaluate his opinions on all the weapons in this video.

[@Ienteredmynamecorrectly-lt3nu]

My favorite weapon is warhead+hydrogen thruser

[@v0id683]

Forgot to mention how good they are on rover servers where it is much harder to dodge them. Rovers are predictable

[@LastStandGamers]

Your right, they are great at taking out wheels.

[@lordsherifftakari4127]

the Vanilla Missile is rather underwhelming, yet has it's uses. it's main disadvantage is the cost of it's ammunition requiring both Platinum and U-235 making them a late game system in survival mode. the vanilla missile is unguided. meaning that to hit your target, you either need to fire a LOT of them hoping that a few will hit something. or get Stupid close to your target getting shredded by their guns in the process. they fly in a straight line from the moment it leaves the launcher to a mediocre distance of maybe 1km. this, in the future timeline not that far ahead of real life and missile weapon systems that are regularly "Smart" weapons that can correct their trajectory and home in on their target, often with pinpoint precision! with Industrial Overhaul and Heavy Industry. Missiles get a major upgrade. they are MUCH cheaper to make AND a huge range boost to a respectable 5km. this in conjunction with homing capability makes the missile a dangerous weapon not to be taken lightly. the WF-2 Railgun is overhyped for what it does. poking little holes in your enemy's grid. sadly, SE physics do not take angles into effect when calculating damage or penetration as sloped armor is a very real thing that would still apply even in Space! this is basic physics = an object in motion will remain in motion unless acted upon by an outside force. this means the slug will ALWAYS take the path of least resistance which can include ricocheting off a sloped surface doing little actual damage. Railgun Slugs do not remain solid as they poke various pinholes through your Ship's People Tanks. kinetic impact with armor will rapidly liquefy that slug spraying molten metal around the interior. causing damage to any components within the space it's entered. the slug will not simply poke a line straight through a Battleship.

[@Isler_]

There is a bug that makes rockets way less effective in P-gravity

[@killguard670]

I am going to call bs on this claim. Arty out ranges missiles. Missiles cost too muchto make, and around 80% of Missiles miss a moving target or get shot down with proper built pdc, not the gat turrets they are junk. Just cout the misses on this video. But shooting a none moving target that doesn't shoot back rocket pods is amazing, lol. Anyways, thanks for your videos. They have been great all these years. 🍻

[@michaelkirkner2051]

Small grid 4 railguns and an array of auto cannons

[@nexusinc.4367]

Now do a vid on best DLC weapon?

[@edelzocker8169]

I use the missile launcher as a light anti-capital-weapon

[@familyvinyukov7565]

From my point of view the missile are useless because, 1 they are not really rapid fire like gattling gun, 2 they can be shot down, 3 there are better weapons.

[@SomeD00D01]

Finally someone with brains

[@Skeletonister]

Missiles vs ships are useless but vs station what are inmovible are op

[@CronyxRavage]

Wonder how @Luca The Guide would react to this