Self Directed Study in Philosophy | Plato's Dialogues and Thought | Sadler's Advice

Get Plato's Complete Works - amzn.to/2Gl6zJX
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This is the first in a new series of videos, providing advice, suggestions, and information for students and lifelong learners intending to engage in self-directed study of Plato's Dialogues. I provide this, drawing on my decades of experience studying, teaching, and presenting about Plato's works.
Here are the general topics discussed:
0:01 - overview of what I'll cover
2:16 - why start studying Philosophy with Plato
10:55 - practical questions about the texts
24:50 - my suggestions about how to start
37:20 - problems and issues you don't (necessarily) need to worry about
43:36 - final thoughts
Useful Links:
One Anthology: Plato's Complete Works, edited by John Cooper - amzn.to/2Gl6zJX
Another Anthology: Plato's Collected Dialogues, edited by Edith Hamilton and Huntington Cairns - amzn.to/2Da4EpC
Google Scholar - scholar.google.com/
Academia - www.academia.edu/
My Plato video playlist - • Plato - Ancient Philos...
Study With Sadler Academy - reasonio.teachable.com/
#plato #philosophy #study

[@onemanenclave]

I like this term much better than "self-study" or "self-teaching" or "self-learning". I think it's more accurate.

[@GregoryBSadler]

Yeah - self-study sounds a bit too much like navel-gazing, right? And self-teaching or self-learning - neither of those sound quite right

[@Jaffa244]

Self study order that Greg recommends: 1) The Ion (Epistemology) 2)The Meno (Epistemology about virtue) 3)Euthyphro (What piety is) 4)The Apology (Defence of Socrates) 5)The Crito ( Should Socrates escape from trial or would it be wrong) 6) The Phædo (Death of Socrates, Immortality of the soul & the nature of Philosophy) After you finish there previous list, this order not that important a) Protagoras (Language and Rhetoric) b) Gorgias(Language and Rhetoric) c) Cratylus(Language and Rhetoric) d)The Republic e)Lysis (Friendship & love) f)Symposium(Friendship & love) g)Phædrus(Friendship & love) Good luck everyone!

[@wetyuu]

Noble Ehab thank you, for this!

[@arturkvieira]

Thank you kind sir, you just made the world a better place

[@sednasix6608]

Thank you! I've got my "Plato Complete Works" by Hackett Publishing that I can put to use with this!

[@mdbahrozbaburali]

Thank you man.

[@griffinsoul955]

Can you email me plato complete works and also all these dialogues

[@g.s.3450]

I’m 70 years old, a community college graduate, and have no prior background in the classics or philosophy. Thanks to this and your other Plato videos, I’m able to patiently work my way through Plato texts without major problems. I have a slight learning disability so; I struggle in formal classroom settings. Decades ago, I was left for “road kill” on the intellectual highway. But I always knew I was just as smart as the other kids. Thus, your “Self-Directed Study in Philosophy” videos make philosophy possible for autodidactics like me. In addition, thanks for the well-organized list of links and topic outline - they are impeccable. If there are any other “road kill” kids out there, don’t lose faith. Dr. Sadler will get you through this!

[@GregoryBSadler]

I'm glad to read that the videos have been useful for you as you delve into Plato!

[@timkeefe5676]

As someone who's a trained academic like Greg is (and for nearly as long), my comments: 1. Primary vs. secondary literature. I'm not a purist and won't push for any beginner in philosophy to just rely on the primary literature, but I also will never recommend anyone to skip it entirely if you want to get deep into it. You have to read and struggle through the text, but you'll sharpen your reading and understanding in the process. Secondary literature is very helpful for getting a lay of the land, as it were. Since Greg is talking about Plato, Plato's "philosophy" is much broader than one single dialogue, yet the dialogues in where the philosophy resides. On the other hand, Plato's philosophy, definitely at first face, is fragmented and not readily apparent to the beginner. Using some secondary literature to find out the main themes in philosophy -- e.g., nature of mind, nature of soul, what does one know, ethics, etc. -- would help. That way, you can more easily chunk the themes and this can facilitate your understanding. And, with a figure like Plato, the themes are closely interlocked. For example, understanding what Socrates/Plato has to say about the immortality of the soul influences his ethics. Finally, secondary literature, when you read enough of it, will start training you, at least on some level, in how an academic conducts research and in summarizing complex topics. The more you read in philosophy, the less you can escape both rigorous argumentation and the primary sources from which the commentator draws. In particular, series like the Cambridge Companions and the Routledge Companions are collections of essays, by leading scholars, on the subject or figure at hand. You can learn a lot from such companions, but all of the contributors have their own interpretations. In short, don't be afraid to start becoming trained something like an academic. Or, at the very least, to read and think critically about texts, figures, their influences, and their arguments. 2. Translations. Unless you can read the Ancient Greek, you'll have to rely on a translation in your native language. Therefore, reading more than one translation is advisable, but also remember that very few people, other than scholars-in-training, will be motivated to learn the Greek. Still, with more contemporary translations, which are in a more modern idiom, have the original Greek terms either side-by-side with the translation, or major terms (e.g., "knowledge" vs. "opinion") with the original term. Knowing the Greek can certainly help, as one sees the term again and again in the history of philosophy. For example, how Aristotle uses a term that Plato, his teacher, used can be very different.

[@nicolasnavia8780]

This is one of the best series that could have existed, you are really a great example for one that wants to teach philosophy online in the future, this channel that you have is a really great end to put myself on to. Best wishes.

[@GregoryBSadler]

Well, it's not quite a series yet! We really can't call it that until I've got at least three under my belt!

[@nerdturas]

I'm in the last year of high school and only recently I have started reading the dialogues. I'll usually finish reading and jump to KZbin to watch a lecture by you! Thank you, Mr. Sadler!

[@MrMarktrumble]

What we need are the dialogues done as real plays. I would go see them. Now there's a go fund me project. Thank you.

[@GregoryBSadler]

That would be fun to do. Back at FSU, we were actually gearing up to do that - me and two other colleagues

[@GregoryBSadler]

Yes - and theres the Apology as well out there

[@user-jz6rr8pk9d]

There is the performance of the first book of Plato's "Republic", but only in russian: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gIjcd4Kqes6XgMk

[@colonelweird]

Back in the 50s (I think) there was a popular play about Socrates' last days, based largely on the dialogues. I saw it at my local small theater about ten years ago - it was entertaining, but had a very mid-century flavor - like Elia Kazan mixed with Plato.

[@MrMarktrumble]

@@colonelweird The Italian movie (without any English) is good while portraying the characters in their original historical setting, but I would also like to see standins for them express the Socratic dialectic in contemporary clothes and setting.

[@islandplace7235]

Awesome, been looking a while for something like this.

[@GregoryBSadler]

Glad to read it

[@selftaughtpolyglot]

Thank you Dr. SADLER.

[@GregoryBSadler]

You're very welcome!

[@jasongingrich894]

This video is so helpful! I've been very interested in casually studying philosophy and this provided some much needed direction to guide my studies with - thank you!

[@GregoryBSadler]

You're very welcome!

[@jaap8232]

Great video, thanks!

[@GregoryBSadler]

You're welcome!

[@deltadeltan]

Thanks, Im going to give this another go after reading The Meno last year :)

[@GregoryBSadler]

Good job!

[@constantin5509]

This was a great video and very helpful. Subscribed.

[@GregoryBSadler]

Glad you found it useful

[@iknowcpr]

Thanks for making this!

[@GregoryBSadler]

You're very welcome!

[@profusionfitness]

This was very useful. Thank you very much !

[@GregoryBSadler]

You’re welcome!

[@timwilson8913]

Great series!

[@GregoryBSadler]

Thanks

[@alexcoutoalves7908]

Great video Gregory . Thank you very much 👍

[@GregoryBSadler]

You’re very welcome!

[@johnbieker2348]

This is what I have been looking for. Thank you so much. Socrates would be proud of you.

[@GregoryBSadler]

Glad it's helpful for you

[@GandharvChoudhry]

I am learning so much about philosophy from your Channel ❤️❤️ Thank you for putting in the Hard Work to make these Videos🙏Love from India

[@GregoryBSadler]

You're very welcome!

[@TheTinCanHitMan]

Thank you Dr. Sadler your videos are great! Been working my way through early Plato and your videos have been very helpful for self-directed study. I also like how artistic Plato is as you mention in this video. I just finished Laches and I found it interesting that it started with an irony of fathers naming their children after their parents in hope they can achieve political greatness, but themselves not feeling good enough to teach their children because those great fathers didn't have the time to raise that greatness into them due to spending all that time trying to achieve greatness. The book ending with Socrates saying even the old should go to school and teach themselves first so as to teach their children was a good thematic ending.

[@GregoryBSadler]

Glad you enjoyed the video

[@JDG602]

Thank you very much for this video this is extremely helpful advice. I have read a few dialogues but this has really set me up well to approach them with a fair amount of confidence going forward. I really want to delve deep into his texts and really immerse myself so I can better understand Plato's thought and the value people gain from studying his philosophy. Thanks again man you really approached this video thoughtfully and it is much appreciated.

[@GregoryBSadler]

You're very welcome!

[@euclidesjardim2746]

I would like to thank you, professor Sadler! I have been studying Plato for a few years and have watched many of your lectures. In fact, this semester I just started to study philosophy in college as my second graduation (I already have a degree in law). Congratulations, you are one of my role-models!

[@GregoryBSadler]

I'm glad that the videos have been helpful for you

[@RubyOnyxx]

I am that guy intimidated by the original works. I've been reading various introductory texts for about a year or two now but I ordered Plato's complete works after watching this video. Thank you.

[@GregoryBSadler]

You're welcome!

[@Ben.....]

Congrats. I made the same move in regards to Aristotle and I am amazed in the depth

[@GregoryBSadler]

@@Ben..... I'll be shooting a similar video on Aristotle this coming month

[@StephenMolloyGoogle]

A great resource for anyone trying to make some use of being stuck at home during these weird times

[@GregoryBSadler]

Yes, hopefully that series is useful for some people in this period

[@StephenMolloyGoogle]

I've started following your recommended reading order, and am pleasantly surprised by how much I'm enjoying them. Accessible enough to get something from them, but tough enough to feel like I'm giving my brain a good work-out. Thanks for this!

[@GregoryBSadler]

You're welcome! Yes, sometimes people think they ought to start with Plato by diving straight into the Republic or even some of the late dialogues. Usually doesn't go well!

[@BakersDelightSam]

Awesome talk Greg. I started with other Philosophers and found your channel. After seeing a few of your videos I realised that Plato is the best start as many other philosophers take their starting point from him or assume you have read him for context. I have the exact book you recommend from Amazon and it is awesome, the footnotes link around to the other dialogues and also give a lot of historical context, very highly recommended. One thing I would love to know and maybe this could be a Sadler's advice is how to actually take notes in a dialog or do you have a best practice? I watched your video on how to read a philosophical text and I have been putting a lot of "???" in my margins! I try to keep any notes to a minimum but the text can move very fast from one topic to another and I'm a little lost as to how many notes a should be putting and what I should be putting there. Ultimately I can accept that this might just come down to a personal preference but it would be great *if* you had some insider knowledge on an efficient/effective way. Thanks again for a great video.

[@GregoryBSadler]

I have no best practices for taking notes. For two reasons. I was always an atypical student, and rarely took notes until I was into grad school, so I don't have my own experience to draw upon. Then, there's also wide variation among students, and no "right amount" for notes

[@benjammin4840]

Thanks Dr Sadler! I started a self guided study of Plato a few weeks ago and this is very insightful!

[@GregoryBSadler]

Glad it was helpful for you!

[@origanilzumper9520]

Thank you very much

[@GregoryBSadler]

You're welcome!

[@psychnstatstutor]

Thanks kindly, I became interested in Plato after watching your vids years ago

[@GregoryBSadler]

You're very welcome !

[@UtarkOyun]

Thank you very much! I hope to meet you one day. Thank you.

[@GregoryBSadler]

You're very welcome!

[@rasikayadav2376]

Hello Sir! I'm joining today, excited to study! Thank you in advance 😊

[@GregoryBSadler]

Joining what?

[@rasikayadav2376]

@@GregoryBSadler The channel, the series :D

[@GregoryBSadler]

Gotcha

[@Surfwatcher1835]

Your passion for philosophy is impressive and contagious. Thank you

[@GregoryBSadler]

You're welcome!

[@Trushaggyful]

thank you dude

[@GregoryBSadler]

You're welcome!

[@maplelaugh420]

You should do a tour of your bookshelf! It's very...immense.

[@GregoryBSadler]

You mean this? kzbin.info/www/bejne/rXTWfXmJh8SMb5Y

[@maplelaugh420]

@@GregoryBSadler Oh gosh, thank you professor! I guess I'm very dense😂

[@rachelhayden2586]

I'm so excited to learn more about Jim Jam from Planet Boo-Boo! Seriously, thanks for the great intro.

[@GregoryBSadler]

You're welcome!

[@Garland41]

One of the things I wish I could tell my younger self is that reading a philosophy book is much slower going than reading a piece of literature. There have been times where I get so into reading that I stopped comprehending. I'm always wary of secondary literature. I'm currently 300 pages into Walter Kaufmann's book on Hegel and while reading it, it seems that Kaufmann does not give his interpretation of Hegel's philosophy, but his interpretation of Hegel the person while also giving the reader ways that one should read Hegel's works. Basically, Kaufmann tells the reader to read Hegel, keep this in mind, but read Hegel. I say this because I'm in Chapter 7 which is just a chronological collection of letters to and from Hegel. I'm looking forward to chapter 8 because it is a translation and commentary on the Phenomenology's Preface and the final chapter is Hegel's article _Who Thinks Abstractly?_ Even with this being the case, I will not know Hegel until I read Hegel (which can take years).

[@GregoryBSadler]

Well, when it comes to secondary lit - unless the person really has some interesting perspective of their own (e.g. like Heidegger does), I like it best when they're presenting the author and making it easier to read and understand them, rather than focusing mainly on their own view and interests. Sort of the difference between standing alongside and saying: Ok - look at this, and this and this. As opposed to putting oneself between the author and the would-be reader, and saying: I'll tell you what's going on here, no need to look for yourself

[@matthewperry5121]

Thanks

[@GregoryBSadler]

You're welcome!

[@warriorowen6666]

Great video as always Dr. Sadler. Have you read the Transcendent theosophy or al-hikmat al-muta’āliyah for Mulla Sadra? If so, what’s your opinion of his work?

[@GregoryBSadler]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/n3uoZKOhq61nqZI

[@k2xxbox]

Hi Dr. Sadler, I have a question regarding Plato's Lysis if you could care to give me some guidance. In the opening section of the dialogue when Socrates is conducting the conversation about happiness (Education which leads to freedom through the example of a love a parent has for their child) with Lysis, doesn't this perfectly capture what he is after in defining friendship later on when he includes everyone else in the talk? And doesn't this initial definition of wanting to give knowledge avoid the various pitfalls that they fall in such as "Which man is friend to which" and "Like is friend to like"... For me, it feels a lot of answers are presented at the very start, then we go down various rabbit holes and almost end up at the same point, Idk, i'm still grasping this text. And it could be a problem with me misinterpreting the opening argument

[@artyomtimofeev6052]

Which edition of the republic would you recommend that has both the Greek and the English? Once again, great video!

[@GregoryBSadler]

Loeb editions have Greek and English on facing pages

[@artyomtimofeev6052]

@@GregoryBSadler Thank you

[@glof2553]

Thanks Doc, I will heed your advice here. Question: Have you read The Cave and the Light by Arthur Herman? It talks about the influence of Plato v. Aristotle throughout history, presenting them as a dichotomy (i.e. some periods being more Platonist, some more Aristotelian). It's not a philosophical text (Herman is a historian by trade) but it's still a fun read.

[@GregoryBSadler]

I have not.

[@adalke7520]

Do one of those about Aristotle please!!!

[@GregoryBSadler]

I guess you didn't read the comments

[@adalke7520]

@@GregoryBSadler My bad. Thanks, looking forward to it! :)

[@papertiger5999]

I was super bummed my library had no Plato, Aristotle, or Kant on the shelf. I only looked for those 3. Maybe I need to stop grumping around and look at the e-catalog :P

[@GregoryBSadler]

You can easily find their texts in many places online, fortunately

[@Lokarter]

Hi, Dr. Sadler. Would you consider doing some Frankfurt School of Critical Theory in the future? Thanks :)

[@GregoryBSadler]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/rJy7fKeuocp6d5o

[@lechomir]

Protip: there are plenty of prof. Sadler's text comments from the original airing hidden under "chat replay" button which is not expanded by default (at least for me)

[@GregoryBSadler]

Indeed - and lots of good questions from the people who watched the premiere

[@lukasryan6922]

Just starting my philosophy journey with Plato - Thanks for your videos, very helpful so far - One interpreter of Plato suggested that Plato made a direct connection between the three soul parts, Reason, Spirited and Appetite, with the physical body ie. head, chest and stomach respectively. In my reading so far I have not found where or if Plato made this connection. Are you able to point me to the text where Plato indicates this relationship?

[@GregoryBSadler]

The Timaeus

[@Retrogamer71]

Is there present your categorisations of Plato for rhetoric, such and such, such and such dialogue, in a hand out?

[@GregoryBSadler]

No - I've never made one on that.

[@AbcDef-vl5qz]

Do you have video explaining why plato wrote “opinion is the medium of the knowledge and ignorance"

[@GregoryBSadler]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/oYTRqamkp6h7gtk

[@carlosrangel3986]

would you do videos about apocryphal books of plato?

[@GregoryBSadler]

Given all the demands on my time, why would I devote it to those?

[@carlosrangel3986]

​@@GregoryBSadler sorry i didn't know it, i think because would help us

[@GregoryBSadler]

Carlos Rangel How would doing videos on dialogues that are considered to be spurious be helpful? Wouldn’t that time be better spent creating resources on dialogues we think are actually by Plato?

[@SuberExtraMan]

PewDiePie brought me here, and I'm very happy

[@rogerevans9666]

Today, most guys are into the "Allegory of the Man Cave".

[@carlosrangel3986]

do u meet Works of Plato by Delphi Classics? if your answer is yes. could tell me what do u think? please.

[@GregoryBSadler]

No idea what you're asking.

[@losharclan7914]

I recently read a dialogue between Socrates and Alcibiades. It is crazy that we still have the same issue when it comes to politics. It is about people who want to govern, but have no knowledge about it. Recently a celebrity became president of Ukraine... And many see philosophy as unnecessary for our modern civilization...

[@GregoryBSadler]

Well, kinda like philosophy is about a human condition that gets more complex, but doesn't radically change from era to era?

[@losharclan7914]

@@GregoryBSadler Yeah, we are still quite similar to our ancestors that lived thousands of years ago. No wonder Plato, Confucius and others are still relevant today.

[@eogh]

Are there modern Platonists like there are Modern Stoics and Epicureans?

[@GregoryBSadler]

Yes.

[@k2xxbox]

Hi Dr. Sadler. I've been doing some reading of Plato's early dialogues. I have a question, I've just finished reading "Charmides". I noticed that the answer of this dialogue was seeming to point in the same direction as "Laches". Here is my question then, do these early dialogues that deal with the virtues act as jigsaw puzzles to be analyzed together and then shown to reach a single answer when indeed put together (That all virtues are the same). Is my interpretation of these earlier dialogues that deal in virtues correct? Or am I looking at this the wrong way. Thanks.

[@GregoryBSadler]

You'll find that they don't exactly "fit", but that the dialogues do complement each other - and not just the early ones

[@simeonsimeonov5693]

I actually went down Postmodernism -> Chomsky -> Ralph Waldo Emerson -> Nietzsche -> Machiavelli -> Jesus -> Buddha -> Seneca -> Aristotle -> Plato hahahah I don't consider Marx a philosopher, although I have read his work

[@PlanetC64]

From now on, i will call socrates “jimjam from planet booboo” …that will help, actually! 😊

[@GregoryBSadler]

Seems like a lot of extra work, but if it helps you. . .

[@Ben.....]

Plato is so Mysterious

[@8man8man11]

whats so wrong about Plato endorsing male-male romance lol

[@GregoryBSadler]

Who said there was?