Separating the Comings of Christ

[@luciadagdagan6990]

Please continue sharing your work to the world to help everyone the truth!!!

[@twaho]

Josephus, Wars book VI Sec. 288 Thus there was a star resembling a sword, which stood over the city, and (2) a comet, that continued a whole year. Thus also before the Jews’ rebellion, and before those commotions which preceded the war, when the people were come in great crowds to the feast of unleavened bread, on the eighth day of the month Xanthicus, and at the ninth hour of the night, (3) so great a light shone round the altar and the holy house, that it appeared to be bright day time; which lasted for half an hour. This light seemed to be a good sign to the unskilful, but was so interpreted by the sacred scribes, as to portend those events that followed immediately upon it. At the same festival also, (4) a heifer, as she was led by the high priest to be sacrificed, brought forth a lamb in the midst of the temple. Moreover, (5) the eastern gate of the inner [court of the] temple, which was of brass, and vastly heavy, and had been with difficulty shut by twenty men, and rested upon a basis armed with iron, and had bolts fastened very deep into the firm floor, which was there made of one entire stone, was seen to be opened of its own accord about the sixth hour of the night… Besides these, a few days after that feast, on the one and twentieth day of the month Artemisius a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared: I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals; for, (6) before sun-setting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armor were seen running about among the clouds, *(Jesus and the angels returning in the clouds for battle against the principalities and powers, also known as nations)* and surrounding of cities. Moreover, at that feast which we call Pentecost, as the priests were going by night into the inner [court of the temple] as their custom was, to perform their sacred ministrations, they said that, (7) in the first place, they felt a quaking, and heard a great noise *(Last trump),* and after that they heard a sound as of a great multitude, saying, ‘Let us remove hence’. *(the souls under the alter taking part in the first resurrection)*

[@scottshaffer5205]

Is there a link to your short 48 page response? Thanks.

[@AmericanVision]

store.americanvision.org/products/when-creeds-and-confessions-don-t-say-enough-and-commentators-don-t-agree?_pos=1&_sid=1a7b009ae&_ss=r

[@karolynann4106]

@@AmericanVision I've been looking for this! Yay.

[@arliegage1380]

Make sure You're Saved and Sealed by the Holy Spirit, and the "When, Where and How, means little🎉

[@LB-px2zo]

I have read your Last Days Madness book, Gary, as I was seeking whether or not the pre-trib rapture theory I was taught was true. I can tell you, I am no longer in that category. Did you know Leroy Froom was a Freemason? I’m not sure that makes a difference in who you want to recommend for others to read, I’m just making an observation, unless of course, it’s a different Froom you are talking about. Thanks for your hard work.

[@SpotterVideo]

What does an understanding of the New Covenant do to the Pretrib Rapture doctrine? Since the New Covenant is “everlasting” in Hebrews 13:20, how is the New Covenant Church age going to end seven years before the Second Coming of Christ? Why would anyone think God is going back to the Old Covenant system now made “obsolete” by the New Covenant in Hebrews 8:13? We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18. We are come instead to the New Covenant church of Mount Zion and the blood in Hebrews 12:22-24. Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it. The Capitol "C" Church, as we use the word today, is not found in the entire Book of Revelation. Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found. In Revelation 12:11 we find those under the blood of the Lamb. A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ. Verse 12 of this passage proves at least part of the tribulation period is the wrath of Satan upon the people of God. Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. "It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view." (The quotation above is from the book "Will You Escape The Tribulation? RAPTURE [Under Attack]", by Tim LaHaye, copyright 1998, Page 197.) Tim LaHaye was co-author of the “Left Behind” books and movies which have convinced millions of modern Christians that the Church age ends seven years before the Second Coming of Christ. Recently, Pastor Matt Furse of Mountain View Baptist Church in Custer, S.D. has written a book titled “Which One Is Right?’, which reveals the recent history of the pretrib rapture doctrine, and the fact it does not agree with what is written in the King James Bible. The gathering of the Church is described at the end of 1 Thess. Chapter 4, and the timing of the event is found in chapter 5. The word “But” in the first verse of chapter 5 connects the two chapters, and the words “we” and “sleep” in verse 10 of chapter 5 prove the two chapters are connected. The Greek words for “wrath” and “tribulation” are not the same word, as proven by the verse below. Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. Watch the KZbin video “Pretribulation Paradox” by former pretrib believer skydiver626.

[@metapolitikgedanken612]

You can't be a Fresh (new) covenant Christian and be a pre-tribber at the same time. Also there is only ONE covenant in Christ... But this according to some is "Replacement Theology" and was rejected during the last 150 years by more and more Churches especially after WW2. No magic conversion of the 'Jews' as the standard pretribbers have to insist for their scheme to look more straight. Simply read Revelation what it says about Jews and you may see what I mean.

[@SpotterVideo]

@@metapolitikgedanken612 The following proves you are correct. New Covenant Whole Gospel: What the modern Church needs is a New Covenant Revival (Heb. 9:10) in which members of various denominations are willing to re-examine everything they believe and see if it agrees with the Bible, instead of the traditions of men. We need to be like the Bereans. It will be a battle between our flesh and the Holy Spirit. It will not be easy. If you get mad and upset when someone challenges your man-made Bible doctrines, that is your flesh resisting the truth found in God's Word. Nobody can completely understand the Bible unless they understand the relationship between the Old Covenant given to Moses at Mount Sinai and the New Covenant fulfilled in blood at Calvary. What brings all local churches together into one Body under the blood of Christ? The answer is found below. Let us now share the Old Testament Gospel found below with the whole world. On the road to Emmaus He said the Old Testament is about Him. He is the very Word of God in John 1:1, 14. Awaken Church to this truth. Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by husband unto them, saith the LORD: Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1 (Gal. 3:16)? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel (John 1:49)? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? What did Paul say about Genesis 12:3 in Galatians 3:8? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis? Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, man-made Bible doctrines fall apart. Let us now learn to preach the whole Gospel until He comes back. The King of Israel is risen from the dead! (John 1:49, Acts 2:36) We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18. We are come instead to the New Covenant church of Mount Zion and the blood in Hebrews 12:22-24. 1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us. The following verses prove the Holy Spirit is the master teacher for those now in the New Covenant. Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. Mar 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost. Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. Watch the KZbin videos “The New Covenant” by David Wilkerson, or Bob George, and David H.J. Gay.

[@metapolitikgedanken612]

@@SpotterVideo Thanks. And where do people get the idea that there are still 'two covenants'.. One for Christians, one 'for the Jews'. I only can deduct one covenant from the bible. And that is in Christ, regardless of physical genealogy.

[@SpotterVideo]

@@metapolitikgedanken612 Jesus Christ was born under the Old Covenant, and that is why turtledoves were brought as a sacrifice to the temple when He was a baby. He lived His whole life perfectly under the Old Covenant, by the way He trimmed His beard, the foods He ate, etc. He died under the Old Covenant, taking all of its curses for us and all of its blessings for us. His blood shed at Calvary brought in the New Covenant and made the Old Covenant "obsolete". We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18. We are come instead to the new covenant church of Mount Sion and the blood of Jesus in Hebrews 12:22-24.

[@SugoiEnglish1]

@@metapolitikgedanken612 Well there is a new and by logic and old.

[@sarahd5341]

While I don’t hold to full Preterism (partial Preterist here) and I’m concerned about Gary’s trajectory, he is asking important questions and questions are allowed. I think we are overdue for a church council on eschatology. Eschatology has been thrust to the back for far too long and we’re seeing the fruit of that. I don’t think we’re anywhere near a consensus on this topic but I’m guessing 50-100+ years (after the West comes through it’s apostasy and secular humanism becomes a footstool for Christ’s feet), we will see that Christ does indeed win down here. This verse doesn’t hold up in the full preterist scheme; “Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death.” ‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15‬:‭24‬-‭26‬ ‭

[@solideomusical]

Regarding the last passage you quoted isn't the question: 'Does Christ accomplish this victory singlehandedly or through human agency?'

[@N81999]

@@solideomusicalpeople cant raise the dead and transform the living in a twinkling of an eye

[@solideomusical]

@@N81999 Agreed, but he didn't quote that part.

[@eagleclaw1179]

Essential eschatology has already been established. The essential doctrine is 1) the literal physical return of Christ 2) the resurrection/glorification of those that are Christ’s 3) and the resurrection of the wicked for wrath. T

[@SpotterVideo]

A Millennium Puzzle to solve… Will Christ be conducting funeral services for mortals killed in accidents 500 years after His Second Coming? The “first resurrection” in Rev. chapter 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the Book of Revelation, because the two witnesses are resurrected from the dead in chapter 11. There are two different types of resurrection in John chapter 5. There is a spiritual resurrection from the dead in John 5:24, and a bodily resurrection from the dead in John 5:28-29. Does your view of the Millennium agree with what Paul said in 2 Thess. 1:7-10, when Paul said Christ returns in "flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not obey the Gospel? The fire comes at the end of Rev. chapter 20. Does your view agree with what Peter said in 2 Peter 3:10-13, when Peter said this earth is going to burn and "dissolve" when He comes as a thief on the day of the Lord? The fire comes at the end of Rev. chapter 20. Does your view agree with what Paul said in 2 Tim. 4:1, when Paul said both the living and the dead will be judged at His appearing? The time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some and destruction for others is found in Rev. 11:18, right after the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible. (This verse also proves the Book of Rev. is not in chronological order.) The judgment of the dead is also found at the end of Rev. chapter 20. Does your view agree with what Jesus said in Matt. 25:31-46, where He described the judgment of the sheep and goats, which leaves no mortals alive on the planet at the end of the passage? There are also no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Rev. chapter 19. Does your view agree with Peter in 2 Pet. 2:4, and Jude in Jude 1:6, when they both said wicked angels are already in chains of darkness? Does your view agree with what John recorded in Rev. 9:1-2, when an angel comes down from heaven with a key to unlock the pit, which means the pit was locked before that time? Are there wicked angels already in the pit in Rev. 9:11? John recorded angels already "bound" in Rev. 9:14. The beast "ascends" out of the pit in Rev. chapter 11, which means the beast was in the pit before that time. Take all of the above and compare it to the symbolic language found in Rev. chapter 20, and the fact the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order, and you will have the truth. ==================================================================================== Multiple Second Coming Visions in Revelation: (book not in chronological order ) Christ returns one time in the future. However, there are several different visions of His return shown from different perspectives in the Book of Revelation. Christ returns at the end of Revelation chapter 6, with signs in the sun, moon, and stars, as are found in the Olivet Discourse. Those at the end of the chapter are hiding from the wrath of the Lamb. Why would they be hiding if Christ is not present? The "kings", "captains", "might men", "free", and "bond" are also found in chapter 19 at the return of Christ. He returns at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, and the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:15-18. The beginning of chapter 12 is a history lesson containing the fall of Satan, and the birth and death of Christ, who is the seed promised to crush the head of Satan in Genesis 3:15. The Second Coming is found in the "harvest" of chapter 14, which is related to the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew chapter 13. He comes as a thief at Armageddon, and we find the greatest earthquake in history in chapter 16. This occurs when the 7th angel pours out his vial. How powerful is an earthquake which moves islands and destroys the mountains? What is happening to the planet? He comes on a horse in chapter 19. Chapter 20? Does He come with the fire, and the judgment of the dead at the end of chapter 20, which agrees with what Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and 2 Timothy 4:1? (The time of the judgment of the dead is also found in Revelation 11:18.) There are no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46. Why does an angel come down from heaven with a key to unlock the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:1-2, if the pit was not already locked before that time? Are there wicked angels in the pit in Rev. 9:11? If the beast "ascends" from the pit in Rev. chapter 11, where was the beast before that time? Does your view agree with Peter in 2 Pet. 2:4, and Jude in Jude 1:6, when they both said wicked angels are already in chains of darkness? Revelation 9:14 proves some of the angels were previously bound in some manner. Because the two witnesses were bodily resurrected from the dead in Revelation 11, the "first resurrection" at the beginning of Revelation 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the book. The principle of "Recapitulation" means there are multiple visions of His return. .

[@LyleCooper]

I find it interesting that these creeds say nothing about Paul's rapture coming, NOT in "glory," NOT where "every eye shall see Him," and NOT a coming to judge the world. Did they not have 1 Thessalonians 4 and 5 in their bibles?

[@davidwoods6015]

There is no catching away 7 years before the 2nd coming to avoid a great tribulation and boogieman anti-christ!!!! The catching away,1Thess.4 is the 2nd coming. The "great trib"was the Jewish apocalypse from 70 a.d.and the boogieman was Nero Caesar!!!! The futurist's are "banking" on the continued interest in eschatology as they rack in all that cash!!!!!

[@davidwoods6015]

The futurists are not concerned with the truth of Hebrews chap. 8 !! They're to busy chucking 1st century and O.T. prophecies out into our future!!!!! Attempting to brainwash the unlearned and ignorance of the O.T. We win down here!!!! Heaven is coming to us!!!! The new Jerusalem is for real.!!!

[@flyfishing739]

Daniel 12:1-7 #FullPreterism

[@vfs148]

After being in premillennialism for nearly 30 years and then studying eschatology for the past couple of years, I have finally settled on a partial preterist position still awaiting Jesus' return. The one question that I ask FP that they do not seem to be able to answer is this. "The temple was destroyed in 70AD. John, who wrote Revelation, was alive until at least 95-96AD, possibly longer. In those 25 years, why did John not write or say anything to anyone that Jesus returned in 70AD. Additionally, John's disciples, Polycarp and Ignatius, in their writings and teachings, never mentioned that Jesus returned in 70AD, and in fact, believed that Jesus' return was still future to them. If that's what they believed, then why didn't John correct them and tell them, so that they could tell us that Jesus returned in 70AD?" I still have not received an answer to that question from any FP.

[@roncuzzort283]

The question should be....Why would they need to say more than what is already written? They had just witnessed all the prophecies fulfilled, all of which are written. Jesus told them exactly when He would return.....several times. So I ask you....why would John be led by the Holy Spirit to write anymore? Just so you would believe what Jesus had already said? ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭16:27‭-‬28‬ ‭NKJV‬‬ [27] For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. [28] “Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.” Jesus said this to real humans alive and listening to Him, not you. Do you believe what He said? By your comment , I assume the answer is no..... ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭10:23‬ ‭NKJV‬‬ [23] When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes. What about these words Jesus spoke to His disciples, do you believe these words? Do you remember this warning?..... ‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:18‬ ‭NKJV‬‬ [18] For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; After reading these words, after witnessing exactly what Jesus said they would see ...... ‭‭Luke‬ ‭21:20‭-‬22‬ ‭NKJV‬‬ [20] “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. [21] Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. [22] For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. And then not eing told by the Holy Spirit to write anymore, as all things written had been fulfilled, why would they write anything? If you read carefully, John wrote in his Gospel that he had witnessed the Parousia...... ‭‭John‬ ‭21:21‭-‬24‬ ‭NKJV‬‬ [21] Peter, seeing him, said to Jesus, “But Lord, what about this man?” [22] Jesus said to him, “If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you? You follow Me.” [23] Then this saying went out among the brethren that this disciple would not die. Yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but, “If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you?” [24] This is the disciple who testifies of these things, and wrote these things; and we know that his testimony is true. John is telling you it is true, that he did witness Jesus' return. Go read John's Gospel real close. You will see it is unlike the others. He is constantly pointing out the spiritual reality compared to the physical. Born again? Never mentioned anywhere else. Not a physical birth , a spiritual birth. Want to SEE the Kingdom Of God that is here now? What did Jesus say in John's Gospel? ‭‭John‬ ‭3:3‬ ‭NKJV‬‬ [3] Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Still so many ignore the words of Christ, and still look for the physical Jesus riding on the clouds. You will never see Him that way. John is pointing out exactly what Jesus said about His Kingdom..... ‭‭Luke‬ ‭17:20‭-‬21‬ ‭NKJV‬‬ [20] Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; [21] nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.” Does that sound like a physical Jesus sitting on a physical throne? It is all spiritual, my friend. God Bless that you may have eyes to see!!

[@vfs148]

@@roncuzzort283 Same reply I get from every FP. Yet, you still have not answered why John's direct disciples, Polycarp and Ignatius, never spoke of Jesus returning in 70AD and why they continued to believe and teach that Jesus's return was still future to them.

[@roncuzzort283]

Then maybe you should believe what Jesus and the scriptures said, and stop worrying about uninspired people outside the scriptures. Believe what they say, and not some men after the scriptures. In whom do you have faith? Christ or man?

[@vfs148]

@@roncuzzort283No, no, no. You're not getting off that easy. That's a copout. These are John's disciples. They heard him and spoke with him. They are two of the most esteemed of the early church fathers. No FP has answered this question yet. They can't answer the question. Gary DeMar hasn't. Zach Davies hasn't. And Mike Sullivan hasn't. Why? Because it shoots holes in the FP theory. To acknowledge that John's most prized students of the faith still believed and taught that Jesus' return and the resurrection were still future proves that all is not fulfilled as FP believe.

[@timothykring4772]

An argument from silence....

[@N81999]

Instead of just asking the questions why doesnt Gary try to figure where the second coming is taught or tell us what he thinks 1 Corinthians 15 is about sense he used it to teach the final coming of Christ in his book last days madness but then dropped it in a later addition. Has his opinion changed on 1 Corinthians 15 or does be think that teaches a final and bodily return of Christ and whats his view on regards to final resurrection of believers bodies and is that in Heaven or on Earth

[@spectrumatos]

It’s so I interesting to see this video pop up and hear what you have to say now… I wrote long paper in 2001, addressing this issue, citing Gentry, Chilton, Sprowl, yourself (Demar) and a few others. It’s up on the preterist archive titled, Partial preterism:A dualistic eschatology. It goes a little more in-depth, pointing out that not only is there not any consensus on which “coming” passages refer to AD 70, or a “future” coming, but also the accompanying “end of the age”, “last days”, “judgment” etcetra etc, etc! It’s gets worse!!! Tracy D Vanwyngaarden

[@JR-rs5qs]

I can affirm those aspects of the Creeds about coming again BECAUSE they do not stipulate the type of coming.

[@makarov138]

Wait a minute! The scripture that you quoted in Hebrews about Jesus coming a 2nd time to bring salvation to those waiting for him was written BEFORE the 70AD coming in judgement. So why doesn't that verse apply to then? Where is the scripture to confirm otherwise?

[@davidwoods6015]

"Coming doesn't always mean 2nd coming!!!! "Behold, I come quickly!!!!" doesn't appear to be a 2nd coming idea. And Matt.24:30 is definitely not 2nd coming material. I have to remind myself that 70 a.d. and the Jewish apocalypse casts a very large shadow over the entire N.T.!!!! If there wasn't a Matt.24:30 there wouldn't be hyper preterists throwing their heresy around in the Christian world!!!!!

[@soozin2u]

I can’t seem to find a clear answer to the title. Separating the comings of Christ. I know preterists draw the lines in different places. Im trying to figure out where your line is?

[@georgechristiansen6785]

I do wonder how many of the folks crying "heretic" would have FP's imprisoned or burned at the stake if they could.

[@Maddog_Mark]

No way man

[@normmcinnis4102]

Hebrews 9:28 looks to be very specific. "to those that look for him shall he appear again" this would not be the literal second coming

[@spectrumatos]

What’s really interesting about this passage is that in the context of the book of hebrews, this refers to the fulfillment of the day of atonement prefigured in the old covenant, at the “end of the ages … for salvation. The idea being, is this isn’t an AD 70 reference, then that aspect of law fulfillment isn’t accomplished, as it is tied to salvation.

[@larriveeman]

I see scripture as teaching a literal 1K years of Jesus reigning, a pre-wrath catching up which is the second coming, which is the literal return of Jesus.

[@familyfoster3368]

Yes

[@makarov138]

Why isn't MT 16:27 & 28 a second coming passage? Where is your proof? Are you saying there are 2000 year old disciples walking around?

[@SugoiEnglish1]

It is to me and thus forces the 2nd coming in 70 CE. Which I hold to.

[@qwerty-so6ml]

@@SugoiEnglish1 PRETERISTS, HISTORISTS are taking away from the worst horror the world will see (Matthew 24:21), when the earth shakes to and fro like a drunkard (Isaiah 24:20), as the pit is opened (Revelation 9:2) and the locusts are released (Joel 2:25). John received the book of Revelation. Yet, he was told that he would be coming back at the end. Revelation 10:11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy AGAIN before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings. That revelation (given within the past 2 decades):

[@ryangallmeier6647]

Gary can't figure out which Biblical texts talk about the 2nd Advent? Of course not, he's a (now) Full Preterist (Hyper Preterist) and Postmillennialist. Here are a few texts that address the 2nd Advent of Christ: Mt. 13:24-30, 36-43; Rev. 14:14-20; 1 Thes. 4:13-18; Jn. 14:1-3; 1 Cor 15:; rev 19-20. Questions? Let me know. *Soli Deo Gloria*

[@davidwoods6015]

Gary De Mar is not a hyper preterist. He is a partial preterist. As I'm I .

[@davidwoods6015]

Mt.24:30 is not the 2nd coming of Christ. This was a local judgement upon the covenant breakers from Matt 23. Read Matt.,chap.21- thru Matt.24 and you'll see the context of this important topic. And we are certainly not the Matt 24 generation!!!!!

[@ryangallmeier6647]

@@davidwoods6015 And notice I didn't quote from Mt. 24? Not once. Notice all the other Scriptural texts I listed that all talk about the 2nd Advent, tho'? Why can't Preterists do what Gary is trying to get them to do: tell us where the 2nd Advent passages are so we can discuss them. I commend Gary for this; and still strenuously disagree with his Full/Hyper Preterism (even Partial Preterists have called him out for his Full/Hyper Preterism, as I demonstrated in the video). Maybe actually deal with what was said in the video. *Soli Deo Gloria*

[@toolegittoquit_001]

@@davidwoods6015Doesn’t he acknowledge his standing has a full Preterist ? Is Jesus coming back or not ?

[@alfonsoreynosa8143]

Curious about the Prodigal Son being a reference to Israel. I looked in context and can not find the correlation. However, if it does relate to that can it also infer to us in our personal rebellion.

[@endtimeawakening5557]

Boiling a child in his mother's milk is quite simple. Too much nurture [mother's influence] and not enough nature [father's influence] will destroy the child, which is why we're warned against it. Children need a balance of both mom and dad's input. ❤

[@makarov138]

THE ERROR OF TWO COMINGS MT 10:23 “And when they persecute you in this city, flee into another: for verily I say unto you, ye shall not go over all the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.” The return of Christ would occur in their own lifetime. MT 16:27,28 “ For the son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his Angels, and then shall he repay to every man according to his deeds. 28 Verily I say unto you, there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the Son of man come in his kingdom.” It would be a day of wrath and vengeance that God would pour out on them. And it would occur in their own lifetime. MT 24:29,30,31 “And immediately after the tribulations of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken. 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the kindreds of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man come in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his Angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect, from the four winds, and from the one end of the heavens unto the other.” The wrath of God being poured out on the wicked, and the subsequent resurrection and gathering would occur. And all in their own lifetime. MT 24:34-36 “Verily I say unto you, this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. 35 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no not the Angels of heaven, but my father only.” The destruction of that temple would signify that the coming of the Lord had arrived. That was the “sign.” Then they all would know when that day and hour had arrived. For some of them would still be alive! And it would all occur in their own lifetime. 1Thes 4:15-17 “For this say we unto you by the word of the Lord, that WE' which live, and are remaining in the coming of the Lord, shall not prevent them which sleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, and with the voice of the Archangel, and with the trumpet of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then shall WE' which live and remain, be caught up with them also in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.” Immediately after that destruction and time of wrath, it would be when the dead would be resurrected, and the living gathered. And it would be in their own lifetime. 1Thes 5:1-6 “But of the times and seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2 For ye yourselves know perfectly, that the day of the Lord shall come, even as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety, then shall come upon them sudden destruction, as the travail upon a woman with child, and they shall not escape. 4 But YE', brethren, are not in darkness, that that day shall come on you, as it were a thief. 5 YE' are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, neither of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep as do others, but let us watch and be sober.” This same event would come suddenly. Swift destruction upon that last wicked generation. They had been taught by Paul and understood these things. THAT day would come while some of them were alive, in their lifetime, and in their own generation. Paul told them so! 2Pet 3:10 “But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in the which the heavens shall pass away with a noise, and the elements shall melt with heat, and the earth with the works that are therein shall be burnt up.” The old system was to be dissolved, and the new system installed. And it would come in their lifetime. 2Pet 3:13,14,17 “But we look for new heavens, and a new earth, according to his promise, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot and blameless.” 17 “YE' therefore beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware, lest ye be also plucked away with the error of the wicked, and fall from your own steadfastness.” They were specifically looking for and anticipating this cataclysmic event, trusting the Disciple that it was coming in their own lifetime. And he warned them that they knew the truth and that them, emphatically and specifically, were to hold on to that truth and not abandon it. For to do otherwise would be their joining the error of the wicked. For it WAS coming in their own lifetime! All of these various descriptions are from several people, and about the one great cataclysmic event. The greatest event in the history of mankind. And the vast majority of the Body of Christ has been hoodwinked into not recognizing it's significance. One could say they missed it. They've been “left behind!” And for those people living back then...........it was their salvation! For to abandon that perspective was to have their faith overturned. What about YOUR faith? Do you believe the word of God, and the historical events that are recorded for any and all to see and learn about..........if you feel it's important. But if you don't.........oh well.

[@davidwoods6015]

What came in their lifetime. Judgement? Of course!!! A local judgement against the covenant breakers from Matt 23 . This particular judgement did not envelope the whole world!!!!

[@makarov138]

@@davidwoods6015 Find your scripture that promotes what you are saying, and then see if possibly it could apply to the 70AD coming. And what was the "world" in that day? It was not the entire globe.

[@DontYouWantToLiveForever]

​​@@makarov138 There WAS the coming in Judgment upon the physical Nation of Israel, and there WILL BE the coming “Day of the Lord” Judgment of all the wicked, along with the salvation of all of Israel by faith, Old and New Covenants, at the general Resurrection. Daniel 9:27 states the desolation of the Nation of Israel in 70 AD, will last on through to the “consummation” (Day of the Lord) which is the end of the fallen state of man when Christ Returns. (This Scriptural proof refutes full Preterism). Therefore, the Return of Christ will occur an unspecified amount of time after earthly Jerusalem's destruction, which a Hebrew Israelite of that time, like John, would describe as a 1000 years. Daniel 9:27 (continued) and for … abominations *_he shall make it desolate,_* even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. Matthew 23:37-38 KJV *O Jerusalem, Jerusalem,* _thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee_ ... [38] *_Behold, your house is left unto you desolate._*

[@makarov138]

@@DontYouWantToLiveForever There is no yet 3rd coming in the biblical texts. Neither is there anything concerning double fulfillment of prophecy. Unless you introduce it in.

[@makarov138]

@@DontYouWantToLiveForever You're right! Jesus did say to them that “Your house has been left to you desolate.” MT 23:38. But just two sentences earlier he said in verse 36 “Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon THIS generation.” It was ALL to come to a climax at the felling of that temple! ALL THOSE THINGS!

[@danielclodfelter2048]

Please don't speak of your earthly credentials as you did in the last ten minutes. Your wisdom and knowledge come from the Father and the head of the Church, Christ Jesus. You have put in the work, and searched for the treasures with a pure heart, otherwise they wouldn't have been revealed. You teach the TRUTH with a pure heart, otherwise you would stumble. Give glory to the Father and Christ, not your degrees. I have no College degrees, a GED, known Jesus for three years, and have the same revelation of the truth as Gary. It comes from the Spirit passed from the Father to serve Jesus ONLY. All Glory to God!!!!!

[@dylanwagoner9768]

Seems like Gary reads the NT like dispensationalists read the OT

[@MB777-qr2xv]

In Revelation 20 it says this, "Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should DECEIVE THE NATIONS NO MORE till the thousand years were finished. So, if you say we are in the Millennium now, that means, according to scripture, Jesus is reigning, and Satan is bound so as not to deceive the nations anymore. Satan is absolutely deceiving the nations; you have whole nations that are steeped in Islam, worshipping Allah instead of Christ. Some nations worship Buddha or one of the 300 million Hindu Gods. Other nations (communist nations) are atheistic. Then how can you say Jesus is reigning already from Heaven when we have a wicked sinful world? 2nd Timothy 3:1-5 it says, “There will be terrible times in the LAST days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God." IF Christ were reigning, do we really think we would have over a billion Muslims, who view Jesus as a prophet right below Mohamad, a billion Buddhists, who believe Jesus was an enlightened person, a billion Hindus, who believe Jesus studied yoga and became a guru to the Jews, a billion Catholics who are entrusting their souls to Mary at the hour of their death, nearly a billion atheists, the LGBTQ running rampant, TV shows and movies, that continually blaspheme God and His Christ, alcohol, drugs, human trafficking, and colleges that have become propaganda mills that promote Godless, Big-bang theology and Darwinian Evolution, and a host of other sinful deeds that will be eliminated during the reign of Jesus Christ, our Holy God. But ONLY during the Millennial Reign is Satan bound so as not to deceive the nations. So, the Millennial Reign has to be different, in fact better than the rest of history. Outside of the Millennial Reign, Satan is not bound, so he is clearly deceiving the nations. This means, in a nutshell, when Satan is not bound=bad times. When Satan is bound=good times, nations NOT deceived. I think you are convinced on preterism whether scripture agrees or not.

[@nichill7474]

I would have hoped that American Vision channel actually cared about the teachings they post that are important. But instead, i am convinced that with all the annoying commercial interruptions, they are merely appealing to an audience for money. Sad. All these interruptions ruin the presentations.

[@qwerty-so6ml]

PRETERISTS, HISTORISTS are taking away from the worst horror the world will see (Matthew 24:21), when the earth shakes to and fro like a drunkard (Isaiah 24:20), as the pit is opened (Revelation 9:2) and the locusts are released (Joel 2:25). John received the book of Revelation. Yet, he was told that he would be coming back at the end. Revelation 10:11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy AGAIN before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings. That revelation (given within the past 2 decades):

[@SugoiEnglish1]

No response to Michael Sullivan's book! We won!

[@dirtyjimmydonitdirtymob8453]

So Jesus isn’t coming back there is no end of the world so only when we die do we go to heaven or hell

[@DontYouWantToLiveForever]

Daniel 9:27 states the desolation of the Nation State of Israel in 70 AD, will last on through to the “consummation” (aka Day of the Lord) which is the end of the fallen state of man when Christ Returns. (This fact also refutes full Preterism). Therefore, the Return of Christ will occur an unspecified amount of time after earthly Jerusalem's destruction, which a Hebrew Israelite of that time, like John, would describe as a 1000 years. Daniel 9:27 (continued) and for … abominations *_he shall make it desolate,_* even until the consummation, and *that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. Matthew 23:37-38 KJV *O Jerusalem, Jerusalem,* _thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee_ ... [38] *_Behold, your house is left unto you desolate._*

[@qwerty-so6ml]

Abomination that causes desolation = SATAN. Standing where it should not = YOUR TEMPLE (host body). Those that took the V*X defiled their temple.

[@michaeldudley5324]

It’s the return of Jesus to restore the throne of David, His throne according to the Davidic covenant. It’s not the returns of Jesus! Pre trib rapture is rubbish! Jesus returns post Jacobs trouble / great tribulation! Not one scripture speaks of multiple returns of Christ! Not one! Bit listening, good day!

[@my1vice]

Real video title: "I reject your false Jesuit theory for my own false Jesuit theory"

[@solideomusical]

Before I watch this can you please tell me from which eschatalogical viewpoint you are operating?

[@dirtremovesblindness]

Full Preterist, but why does it matter? Either what he says is plausible or it isn't.

[@solideomusical]

@@dirtremovesblindness If I am to spend 40 minutes listening to someone I would like to know their orientation.

[@metapolitikgedanken612]

@@dirtremovesblindness It's polite to play with open cards concerning one's own views first. Plenty of timewasters that do not do that and turn out to be something else than one would conclude from face value. I'm pre-mil and believe that the elect will be gathered on Christ's return ("After the tribulation of those days"). To be full preterist one has to dismiss at least some parts of the book of Revelation, which clearly advises against that practice. E.g. how could all people take a mark in that era? How could the Beast have power over all nations, etc.(Rev 13:7f) ? Then we're not even talking about the Millenniums, judgement, lake of fire, etc.

[@dirtremovesblindness]

@@metapolitikgedanken612 Gary DeMar is famous for his belief in Full Preterism...so I'm surprised one even has to ask. As for your eschatological views..I'd be happy to have a conversation about this via email or some other channel better than a KZbin comments section. However, most times when I chat with either a Historical PreMill or Dispensationalist I find it to be a waste of time since most Futurists don't want to take the time to really listen to the other side.

[@dirtremovesblindness]

@@solideomusical Understood, but that also means you'll be walking in with a bias and unable to truly listen to the speaker.

[@funnytilltheresblood]

Blithering nothing burgers!

[@ReLair88]

Gary, AD 70 was not a coming of Jesus. That's your problem.

[@jeffreyerwin3665]

I view the so-called "second coming" as the arrival of YHWH on earth, and that arrival is Judgment Day. Luke 12:49 "I have come to bring fire to the earth and how I wishis were blazing already!" Gobal nuclear war will signify the so-called "second coming." It will not be pretty.

[@waltergoraj5238]

I can save the listener 37 minutes simply by saying this: the generation of Jesus Christ ( Mt. 24:34) began at His "birth" and won't end until He comes again. As the Bible chronicles the generations of the patriarchs Jesus is the last generation. There will be no more after him of the "seed of David"( Jn.7:42). Because Christ (who is God) is alive forevermore and not "sleeping with his fathers", this generation won't end until He comes (hopefully soon). So with this information you can find Harmony with all the scriptures in Matthew 24 or anywhere else.

[@Jus4kiks]

That sounds good, but how do you justify that in the text? I would like to be able to see that.

[@waltergoraj5238]

"all these things' ( v.34) are events that have and will occur in our time because "this generation" is currently going on. And the bottom line is that this generation cannot pass until the Lord Jesus Christ comes and then we will not be talking on our phones anymore. We'll be in heaven

[@Jus4kiks]

@@waltergoraj5238 Got it, but what do you think hasn't happened yet - vs 29-31? Just trying to grasp it. And how can we know its the generation of Christ and not the generation He was speaking too. Its tough for me bc when he says generation other times in the book it has its natural meaning.

[@waltergoraj5238]

Well, I don't believe that the gospel has been preached in all the world yet because when every person God has ordained to eternal life hears the word of God his salvation plan will be complete and then this world will end. Also we haven't seen the abomination of desolation yet which would put us in the period of great tribulation. We haven't seen that yet although it seems very close. So in order for Christ to come, we have to go through that tribulation which I believe is going to be the Jewish Zionist control of the world where the unsaved will be worshiping their messiah who is actually Satan. Now when it comes to the word "generation", It can mean a long period of time as well as a generation of a patriarch or like 40 years. Here's an example: Psalm 112:2 : His seed shall be mighty upon earth: the generation of the upright shall be blessed. ("the generation of the upright" in this verse relates to a long period of time with no limit, in other words, it's like spiritual language) So in order for Matthew 24: 34 to have Harmony with the rest of the chapter I would view "generation" in both a spiritual sense and a literal one because once again the generation of Jesus Christ is going to continue until he comes because he's alive in heaven as opposed to David: Acts 13:36: For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:

[@andreastarks2780]

@@waltergoraj5238when Jesus spoke to “this generation” he spoke to the second person “you” to whom he was speaking to. No one alive now or in the future was in that You. He was speaking to them. That audience of Jews was the YOU. This was about the Jews of that time, that generation. Soo self centered and ethno- and chrono-centric to steal that time and tribulation of the end of the old covenant in God’s history from the people of Jesus day. It must always be about “me” throughout history, as part of human sin nature.