Sephiroth's Crazy Ledge Trap Setups with Flare!

[@TheNegationist]

I forgot to mention that this works best at later percents, they will have less invincibility.

[@steelbeans]

"Sephiroth CRAZY INESCAPABLE LEDGE TRAP!!" "So like use neutral b 2."

[@TheNegationist]

I’m taking title and thumbnail advice from the pros

[@steelbeans]

@@TheNegationist no yeah all respect i just thought it was funny

[@axessoul]

Been using level 3 flare a little too much I could afford to switch it up

[@TheNegationist]

ADAPT OVERCOME

[@axessoul]

@@TheNegationist 👊

[@JonnyJPlayer]

4:33 it be like that sometimes 😔

[@TheNegationist]

I agree 😢

[@absoul112]

Yeah I rarely used stage 3 because stage 2 is basically the same but faster.

[@kurikiarizeth2990]

Idk how I found your channel but I’m glad I did. I like your style and you’ve gotten yourself a sub

[@matthewtheobald1231]

I wish my mom loved me

[@Mark---W]

Sephiroth has 2 weakness in his moveset, other than he is truly amazing to play. Good thing is that he isn't busted, but seems to be high "B" tier. 1. His neutral special "flare" just only normal flare takes so long to just get started. I wish that it's damage would be nerfed from 16% to 11% & come out just 10 frames early. 2. His N-air is actually good for covering a little more than his body & quick. It just needs to linger on for a few 3-4 frames more. Other than that I am totally fine with him being lightweight because he can't be busted.

[@TheNegationist]

Pikachu has entered the chat

[@btu1734]

Yeah I quickly realized that this setup is kinda broken. I learned that when at ledge you can just fall off of the ledge and Regrab once the move is done and you should have enough time to prevent a second flare trap, which is definitely nice

[@TheNegationist]

In that time sephiroth should usually be able to come up and down air you

[@aidan7673]

The best counter play is to fall off ledge and up B back right?

[@TheNegationist]

Nooooooo. It has so little end lag he can just down air after.

[@aidan7673]

@@TheNegationist thanks I forgot abt dair

[@JugularJohn]

What if you’re a character that has an ez reflector. Just fall off the ledge, and hop back up with side b lmao

[@TheNegationist]

I completely forgot about that!!!!!!

[@TheNegationist]

Jk. The explosion is a frame trap. Unless they get the projectile. Then your spacing is wrong.

[@Arif-ne3hb]

The only thing I got from this vid is that you have a time limit on your switch

[@TheNegationist]

Yup. How I got this good at smash? You tell me.

[@GHXST_EXISTS_]

Someone did this setup to me and I just let go of the ledge, jumped back on, rolled and t bagged while they charged the attack. Then they canceled the charge and started whoopin my ass till I got one forward air in XD

[@TheNegationist]

?

[@GHXST_EXISTS_]

Idk Either they got the setup timing off or they're just bad lmao

[@TheNegationist]

Well no

[@TheNegationist]

Most characters can’t wait long enough and still get onstage. That’s just ness

[@GHXST_EXISTS_]

@@TheNegationist I mean even if he can wait that long, the Sephiroth should at least read the timing after a while cuz I never really Mix Up my Recovery

[@jonathandwilliams2885]

Doesn't this still have another answer besides roll? Drop ledge, double jump back up, then there are mix ups like grab ledge again, air dodge on stage, aerial back onto stage, land and shield, etc. But at least that forces them into a rough spot where they have to use risky mix ups.

[@TheNegationist]

Unless you’re Falco, I don’t see your double jump being able to be used late enough to where you won’t get hit by the blast and land on stage. Remember even if you drop off of the ledge its still active for quite a while.

[@jonathandwilliams2885]

@@TheNegationist Experiment with it a bit. Maybe you can air dodge through the last of it onto stage? At the very least, it lets you re-grab ledge safely, and should have enough time to pick another option to counter something like a down smash to cover the re-grab. I don't think they would have enough time to do another one unless they read it.

[@pivotmaster9556]

​@@TheNegationist You can also just time neutral getup invincibility right? aannd thats only if you havent already jumped because you anticipated the trap.

[@daymare0]

nice

[@kevfitzgerald6638]

Huh just found your content, pretty good ngl

[@TheNegationist]

Thanks?

[@rialvita7141]

Next update: Now Sephiroth with Teraflare.

[@TheNegationist]

Frame 1: instakill

[@kaenaito9667]

I‘ve used neutral b2 since the beginning of sephiroth and most of the time they ledgedropped. I missed that a little bit but otherwise great work!

[@kaenaito9667]

Aaaaaand i just saw you realized it in another comment nevermind

[@TheNegationist]

The legend that actually reads the comments. I’ve been getting so annoyed

[@nathatkd]

I think you can drop the ledge and grab it again when the explosion ends

[@TheNegationist]

It hits below ledge

[@mariotrigo6456]

Yeah, b is edgeguard button

[@swoopy3924]

I like how you have a timer

[@TheNegationist]

Cool

[@swoopy3924]

@@TheNegationist damn sonic speed

[@TheNegationist]

?

[@TheNegationist]

Oh nvm I get it

[@tearsandsuffering2804]

Megaflare is stage two and I agree it’s broken Stage one is too weak for the time it takes and stage three is way too much Stage two is about half of battle field and kills very well

[@TheNegationist]

Yeah stage 2 is the perfect balance

[@townnn-biz]

"30 more minutes"

[@TheNegationist]

?

[@mastercharizardx14]

@@TheNegationist 4:36 top right corner

[@Lancer1369]

Why does no one just drop down and wait it out?

[@TheNegationist]

It has so little end lag he can punish you for it

[@jonasbjordal8332]

The concept is cool but very simplified to the point where "they can only roll" sounds a bit silly. Seeing it in action vs an actual player who can adapt would be a lot more interesting than on a CPU, but it's an ok proof of concept

[@TheNegationist]

I heard what you’re saying. However, it does work, at later percents I haven’t struggled to do this setup at all. Timing is everything. Also there is such thing as counter adaption.

[@jonasbjordal8332]

@@TheNegationist I imagine a well timed neutral getup or jump to get intangibility through the projectile should work fine which is very common at mid/high level (especially as the projectile is highly reactable). Ledge jump you'd have to read and neutral getup is only punishable for 1 frame meaning you'd hard read that option as well (especially with the visual clutter obscuring the getup animation). I don't doubt that it can work well to bait getups, but there is a ton of counterplay which will be a lot more apparent when people learn to fight the character/playing vs people who know how to get up from ledge.

[@GoodNapGoodLife]

What's your stream info?

[@TheNegationist]

?

[@GoodNapGoodLife]

@@TheNegationist at the end of the video you said you're streaming? But you didn't leave any of your stream info so I couldn't find your streams.

[@TheNegationist]

@@GoodNapGoodLife oh yeah sorry dude they are unlisted, it was only over my winter break. I will do it again in summer!

[@DioBrando-qv3mo]

Can’t sephiroth just catch ur jump with an up smash

[@TheNegationist]

All other getup options have entered the chat

[@DioBrando-qv3mo]

@@TheNegationist im talking about when sephiroth is charging neutral b at ledge

[@THXKXNG]

Here’s another method: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hmTLkmaGps2IbpY 1)Throw out level 1 flare as they recover. (This is a decoy & forces them low) 2) After instantly start charging level 3 & throw it 3) The detonation covers ledge hop, neutral get up, & ledge hanging

[@TheNegationist]

More explanation please

[@grape_nation]

Level 3 is too slow to use after level 1. Wouldn’t they already be on stage?

[@THXKXNG]

@@TheNegationist Here’s the best way to try it (Also you can chose between level 2 & 3 flare) depending on their recovery speed 1) around 70% or higher if you’re near ledge (Foward throw, Jab, or Foward Tilt) them off stage 2) Jump and use “level one flare” this should stop high recoveries OR hit them for going high 3) After instantly charge level 2 or 3 flare for the follow up. I use level 3 because the explosion hit box is active for a long time, & the short distance makes sure it doesn’t fly past them. *hope this helps.. try it out in training first* ALSO if they recover quick back on stage after dodging the first flare attack just use another LVL.1 to hit them quickly *I have a short video if you’d like to see it*

[@THXKXNG]

@@grape_nation Here’s the best way to try it (Also you can chose between level 2 & 3 flare) depending on their recovery speed 1) around 70% or higher if you’re near ledge (Foward throw, Jab, or Foward Tilt) them off stage 2) Jump and use “level one flare” this should stop high recoveries OR hit them for going high 3) After instantly charge level 2 or 3 flare for the follow up. I use level 3 because the explosion hit box is active for a long time, & the short distance makes sure it doesn’t fly past them. *hope this helps.. try it out in training first* ALSO if they recover quick back on stage after dodging the first flare attack just use another LVL.1 to hit them quickly

[@grape_nation]

@@THXKXNG Hmmmm ok

[@TheColdFrontmusic]

pretty much.

[@doomsdaygaming9928]

I use MegaFlare all the time

[@Ultraninja24395]

Nice how old are you

[@TheNegationist]

14

[@btu1734]

@@TheNegationist dude you’re 14! For someone so young, you have a ton of smash knowledge and have pretty great videos to. I mean I’m younger I’m only 13 so me calling you young isn’t really saying much but still seriously