Ursacks. What they failed to tell you and why they FAIL!

[@lindakennedy2495]

Hello Stephen, After viewing your videos, I wanted to reach out to give you a little background on our OPSAK odor barrier bags. It is important not to contaminate the outside of the OPSAK bag. So many users don't think about that. I say well, "If you touch wet paint, and then touch an object, you see the paint. Unfortunately, odors are invisible, but you get the same transmission from odors. There is a life to our hermetic closures as we use two different films to make our bags. The body of the OPSAK bag uses an odor barrier film. It has a high heat tolerance, higher than our aLOKSAK as well, and is durable and has 5 layers. When we heat seal the pliable closure to the bag film, we are using a high heat to make the seal connection. Because they are different films, as the pliability of the closure is what makes out zippers airtight and waterproof, we need to make the zippers pliable to make a 100% connection across the entire seal. The Closure and Zipper Tracks are separate. Yes, because they are a softer different film, they will be the first to go. The bags must be replaced after extended use. Our bags are used by K-9 handlers. They have been used by NASA in the spaceships in the toilets. We work with the FBI Hazmat unit for transport and storage of deadly chemicals. I created that bag when I lived in the mountains in Park City, UT. I filled 8 bags with various foods and left them on a trail for over a month. Nothing was ever touched. They have been tested for emissions by MRI Global, an independent company that tests worldwide for government agencies, military, industrial, etc. You can pour boiling water in the OPSAK to rehydrate food, but the bags cannot be put into boiling water to heat the food. Sounds like you have our OPSAK bags. I would be happy to send you additional OPSAK to test, and some aLOKSAK. aLOKSAK are not odor barrier, but they are 100% hermetic seals and 100% water/air/dust and humidity proof. All electronics work while protected in our aLOKSAK. Linda. Owner and founder of LOKSAK. ALL ITEMS ARE MADE IN THE USA never using any harsh chemicals. The bags are FDA and NSF approved.

[@StephenEscallier]

That’s so cool that you are commenting on my video and agreed! I feel in 100% of the failures of this system it’s either contamination or wear related failure. I would never say no to any outdoor related products Linda! Once again, thanks for the more than informative feedback!! 😊

[@mathieucarrier4217]

Thanks for not editing out those people walking by, it was oddly satisfying!

[@StephenEscallier]

😂. I always appreciate how awkward it always seems to be.

[@hassy19866]

Can you please tell me how oddly satisfying is it ? gratifying, enjoyable, pleasurable ?

[@andyackerman7123]

@@hassy19866 I can tell you, I’m completely spent. There’s nothing left to give.

[@PhilAndersonOutside]

Good video. I work at REI, and agree with all you said. I usually tell people put your food in freezer bags, those bags go into an odor blocking bag, which goes into the Ursack, which you hang up (tie a good knot!). All of this must be kept clean. I often sell the Ursacks (including the Allmity) to people as a "critter" sack. It does a foolproof job of keeping squirrels, chipmunks, ravens, racoons, from chewing through it, which you can hang almost anywhere. But if you want to keep bears out, you not only have to be really diligent with odors and cleanliness, you still have to hang the bag up high. Other option? Deal with carrying a bear canister (which doubles as a camp stool, btw!).

[@ThePapawhisky]

Just finished hiking the CDT, using an Ursack in Montana and Wyoming. Per this video I placed a priority on controlling aromas thru careful food handling and opsak use. Reasonable approach.

[@StephenEscallier]

How was the journey? Glad to hear this approach worked?

[@jeremysart]

I appreciate your redundancy. I'm a man of precaution. I ended up deciding on the Ursack 2XL and an assortment of different sized Opsaks.

[@Nick.Carl.]

This is awesome! I just finished a three day hike and used my new Ursack with and Opsack inside. When I went to camp the first night I found a prefect tree and hung the bag PCT style, so I wasn’t worried there. But on the second night I couldn’t find a tree that kept the bag high enough off the ground, so I tied the Ursack to a tree. During the process, everything you went over came to my mind as questions: did I seal the opsack properly, would the bag get compromised if a bear did find it, was it too close to the trail, etc. Anyway, I was so tired that I decided to quit worrying and go to sleep, but with this video I can see I covered as many bases as possible and strongly reduced the probability of a bear getting my food. I especially like that you went over the way a bear thinks about food and what you’ve got to think of the best outsmart one, knowing it’s olfactory, sight, and memory capabilities (i.e. how habitualized would a bear be given the area I was hiking and camping in). Thanks so much for doing this video!

[@StephenEscallier]

Thanks for the great feedback!!

[@captaincoyote1792]

I have used an Ursack-Opsack combo for three years now. I never thought of the wisdom of double-opsacking. Washing my Ursack? After every trip! Good video, amigo!

[@StephenEscallier]

Thank you CaptainCoyote!

[@jdhayes]

Great, practical message. Appreciate you putting this together. Getting ready for a Superior Trail trip so putting your ideas into action. Thanks'

[@StephenEscallier]

Thanks for the feedback! 😊

[@ewingfox6459]

Great review! I've been using a waterproof drybag filled with smaller sent-proof bags for years (read: since the late 1980's) whenever I'm in bear country and been thinking about changing over to an Ursack as I know regs are tightening up and I'd like to be compliant even though my practices have always been very safe. Love your tips - you didn't go into cookwear - do you put your cookwear in your Ursack? My bear bag carries my food, cookwear, dirty laundry, personal hygene products, used poop tickets (when in a must-pack-out location), dirty laundry (especially when it has gotten bloody) , used biohazzard materials (wound dressings, used feminine products if hiking with women, used sharps, used first aid debris, etc). I hang my bag per NFS guidelines a minimum of 250' from my sleep, and never cook within 200' of my sleep, period. Would hate to get jammed up by a ranger or fined for non-compliance though - so expensive kevlar may need to be in my future.

[@StephenEscallier]

Thanks for the thorough response!! Anything I use that could possibly carry scent goes into my bear bag! Silverware, toothbrush, etc.

[@DragonRoams]

I share a lot of the same thoughts as you. I switched to the Major a few years ago and it has been my go to ever since. When I use to do a traditional food hang I still took measures to lock away odors. Even with some of the advantages of the Ursack I still carry a throw line with me so it can be hung if need be. I've only had to do that once in the Catskills in a rodent heavy campsite. In the morning there was evidence that a rodent went down the line and got into by buddy's food bag while my Ursack hanging just feet away was ignored.

[@katiebieker5381]

Great video!! I've been looking for this for some time. Thank you.

[@StephenEscallier]

Thank you Katie!! 🙌

[@TheBeatenPaths]

Great video!!!! And good tips on keeping hands clean too. I've often wondered, after hanging my food, and I'm in my tent for the night.....my smelly boots, and socks and stuff in my tent with me lol. Uggggg, a bear can smell those.

[@StephenEscallier]

Hahaha. True! Hopefully bears dislike our body odors! 😂😂

[@TheBeatenPaths]

@@StephenEscallier I think they like our oders as much as they do our food's.

[@hdbinnc8583]

Thanks for the information. Very helpful as I’m trying to figure out the best way to address carrying food and keeping it and the bears safe. Well done.

[@StephenEscallier]

Thank you 🙏

[@billwatson3527]

The only advantage to Ursacks is that they weigh less than canisters. They cost almost 3 times more than canisters. Their only use is as a bear bag. They are not accepted in several national parks so you have to check and make sure they are accepted. I use a large Bear Vault. I can set on it. It does not take up that much space in my pack because I don't just use it for food. I carry it upside down and put my sleeping clothes in it, my electronics, and anything else I want to make sure is kept dry. I fill it up so I haven't really lost any space. Just like I fill up my cook kit with small items. I take it on all my overnighters so I don't have to worry about mice, squirrels, raccoons, marmots, and so on. I only set it away from my camp if I am in bear country. If a bear does find it he/she is not going to bite into my beer and mess up my trip. I compensate for the 2.5 lbs. by leaving the tent at home and use a hammock, tarp, and bivy. And the fact that I am not a gram counter.

[@StephenEscallier]

All completely logical and valid points!

[@ewingfox6459]

Any worries about having your sleep clothes in with your food? All my dirty laundry goes into my bear bag etc, but never my clean clothes

[@RC-qf3mp]

@@ewingfox6459 good point. Best to keep everything you sleep with away from anything with a scent, esp food scents. Rodents are tracking food, they are tracking food odor, and will look for food on your body if you sleep in food-flavored clothing. I made the mistake of trying out toothpaste tabs… they were so offensively minty that I didn’t take them with me, but the Fanny pack I put them in smelled like mint for a long time. Not good. Now, i use baking soda for toothpaste and liberally use baking soda to deodorize gear and wash my arm pits, esp at town resupplies. (A whole baking soda box is heavy, but they are cheap, so quickly douse everything at towns, only carry small amount for tooth paste).

[@bigriver47]

I don't find mingling sleeping gear with food a good Idea, the odors of food are then in your sleeping clothes so that a bear will be attracted to the smell in your sleeping clothes. It's a good idea to use all that space for electronics and the like.

[@chrislonsberry1974]

I know you made this video a few years ago and I found it informative. One thing you didn’t touch on was what do you wash your hands with that doesn’t leave a scent?

[@Vysais1317]

Extremely useful information here. Thank you!

[@artsorcerer4420]

Great info. My only suggestion is to smoke the bags on the outside and in to help in hide sent when you are in the bush. A stick full of bark or pine will do the trick nicely.

[@StephenEscallier]

Great tip. I wasn’t sure if bears are adverse to such smells?!

[@MNmostly]

Informative video! I've been going to do one on this subject but you beat me to it. You are exactly right, most bear problems come from not maintaining a clean camp. Unfortunately once a bear learns bad behavior and an easy source of food everyone else camping in that spot after that is doomed. Like you said, hanging a food bag is really tough to do it right and if it is done incorrectly you may as well leave the food bag on the ground. Many trails and canoe areas in MN have been affected by fires and blow down so good hanging trees are hard to find. I use odor blocking bags from Base Camp Outdoor Systems that simply twist and have a plastic clip around to close it, quite easy to use. One other tip I would give is to wash your Ursack when you get home to remove any smells, dirt and food that may have got into that tight weave of the fabric and hang to dry. Thanks again for doing this video!

[@StephenEscallier]

I completely agree, when washing use a scent free detergent and when drying use wool balls for anti static! Thank you for the positive feedback!

[@MNmostly]

@@StephenEscallier I've never heard of the wool balls trick. My Ursack is a few years old (white) and I just hang it up to dry, you can stuff loosely with newspaper to help draw out moisture.

[@StephenEscallier]

@@MNmostly totally. I generally hang mine to dry! You can buy the wool dryer balls at target. They have completely eliminated fabric softener for us!

[@WasatchWill]

I use those Base Camp bags too, but have been sad to find that they just don't seem to be available anywhere anymore, my local retailer or online. When all mine ever get punctured and rendered useless, I may have to start trying out Diaper Genie bags or some other personal hygiene, scent-blocking bags I found available on Amazon. I found that OPsacks just aren't as packable, aren't as accommodating, and are prone to having their seal rip completely off, rendering them unusable.

[@ef2b]

Snacks eaten while walking go into my pants pockets or hip belt pocket....and I've never found a good way to keep those two places from picking up scent without making eating while walking too cumbersome. My pack is probably closer to the tent than it ought to be and my hiking pants go in the tent, so this issue seems real to me. Any thoughts or tricks regarding walking food?

[@bobmacke736]

You can get a small pouch that slides on over your pack belt and then it can go in the bear bag. I think Gossamer Gear makes some.

[@BeegEazy]

I would at least use a zip lock or small bag you keep snacks and related garbage in while on the go and be mindful of keeping your hands clean when handling stuff. Your gear is never going to be completely scent free, but as eluded to in the video the more barriers you can put in place (the more you can mitigate) the better off you are in my opinion. Bob's suggestion is also good, I like the idea of a designated snack pouch to be put in the bag/canister etc.

[@david_onthetrail]

What you are saying makes sense, thanks for the video.

[@StephenEscallier]

Thank you!!

[@MBDaltx]

GREAT IDEAS!! Esp liked the intentional backup option point!

[@BeegEazy]

Good video! I don't believe anything is going to be well and truly scent proof to a bear, and even then there is no way to eliminate contamination entirely no matter how diligent you are. I use layers as well to try and mitigate as much scent as possible. At the very least it makes sense in my head and makes me feel better.

[@StephenEscallier]

Thank You! I think this is the best approach. Reduce the temptation and chance they can smell it from far away.

[@austinkopp9811]

There is a risk in consuming food contaminated by a bear's saliva. That's the reason Yosemite didn't approve them.

[@StephenEscallier]

Ahhh. Something that never crossed my mind.

[@stephenelderkin5022]

I use the Ursack . I double bag everything and place the ursack on a solid tree well off any trails and well away from camp.

[@puma51921]

Most predators have amazing abilities when it comes to smell. Dogs can detect cancer cells and covid in a human. So I think trying to block odors can help but, is mostly a waiste of time. You have to remember you touch the outside of that bag with all of your odors including food. A dog can track a human up to 2 day old track.

[@hrmIwonder]

I see your point, but it has to be worthwhile for an animal to come get your food. So if you cut down the food smells a lot, say 99+%, when an animals smells it from afar, it's not registering as a large sized food source as it would have otherwise. There'll be that crossover point where if the food signal were stronger the bear would come check it out, but if it's weaker it won't. Whether opsaks work that well, I dunno. I think their ziplock part is kinda hard to use.

[@MukulKumarIIT]

Bear's sense of smell is 2100 times a human. So bagging can help, but there are so many other smells on you that will attract a bear. There is no way you can control the bear thing with smell. They will find the pack, it all comes down to not letting them have it.

[@StephenEscallier]

I would assume the difference between being super clean and double bagging and not would be the distance a bear could smell the food from and how strong that smell would be. Bears would generally not want set anti an area with human activity if there is not a clear food scent to attract them, at least here where we are generally dealing with black bears.

[@2laughandlaugh]

I find that one single moth ball at the bottom of my food bag is enough to stop all but the most stubborn rodents from getting in my bag. They hate the smell and it overpowers most food smells.

[@StephenEscallier]

Interesting. And with sealed food I would assume you don’t smell or taste it in your food?

[@2laughandlaugh]

@@StephenEscallier correct.....sealing your food well is a must.

[@LostBoy1026]

Great video thank you

[@StephenEscallier]

Thank you so much!

[@jeremysart]

A raccoon would fuck the regular ursack up. They're very persistent. I've had one chew a hole in my tent with ME in it because I messed up and had a granola bar wrapper in my snack pouch.. it's too bad the Allmitey doesn't come in a larger size.. I'll ultimately have to buy two of them.. or go with a canister. I've decided against a regular bear bag, because it's not always an option (when you're hiking in pines or dunes, not gonna be very useful)

[@phillipp1399]

Honestly so much less hassle to use a bear canister. So many steps each and every time and still a risk of food being destroyed. Simplicity, peace of mind, works anywhere, way less fiddly, slightly heavier and easy learning around volume management. I have an almighty and two different kinds of canister so familiar across the board.

[@henrikstryhn]

People totally misunderstand those sacks. You have to hide inside them, not stuff your food in it. 🤯

[@davidfriedman7533]

Hey Stephen curious to hear your thoughts on 2 questions… 1. How do you feel like opsaks differ from a hardy freezer ziplock? 2. What are your thoughts and feelings on the fact that opsaks are prop 65? Does this bother you yay or Na and why?! Thanks for your insights!

[@StephenEscallier]

Hi David! 1. In a perfect scenario I feel they might keep in more scent as they seem to be thicker but in practice I find they are too challenging to seal correctly. I feel 2 or more freezer bags layered are a better option for this very reason. 2. This is a good question. In a usability aspect I feel nay as I always have wrappered food in the opsack so contamination is pretty minor, but I know plastics shed waste, so I would say any environment we take stuff like this into we are impacting. You have given me some good stuff to think about. We are seeing micro plastics in places like the boundary waters, I imagine much of it is coming from campers and backpackers.

[@davidfriedman7533]

@@StephenEscallier right on. The boundary waters are gorgeous! And glad to hear your thoughts on the freezer too. Yeah , the tough thing about prop 65 is that there is no real way to know how much and type of chemicals that are in the bag. Yes, many of our daily tools have all types of chemicals…and yet isn’t that even more of a reason to stay critical and conscious about how we want to interact with them? I appreciate you chewing on the thoughts and as you have more, I’d love to hear them as I always appreciate folks who are willing and able to do thorough and critical reviews. Looking forward to hearing more from your journeys!

[@eric55406]

Quadruple bagged, seems like Ursack is difficult to use and might not really save that much weight (how much do all those bags weigh?). If I know there will be good forested areas, I'll take a bear bag which is the lightest option. Some areas require a bear cannister and I have one already, so if it's required, or if there are not a lot of trees, I'll just take my bear can.

[@WasatchWill]

Great tips and ideas. I do all this sans the Ursack. I used to do a lot more freezer bag cooking too, but have resorted to rehydrating directly in my pot with its own cozy and then rinse it out really well after for various reasons. I'll be getting an Ursack this year in anticipation of a big trip this summer into an area where both black and grizzly bears are known to roam. So I will be taking it one step further and adding an extra layer of redundancy and scent protection by also putting the OP bag inside of my roll top seam sealed dyneema bag before dropping it into the Ursack. If I do opt to go back to some freezer bag cooking for this trip, I'll be sure to pack a couple extra bags separately.

[@StephenEscallier]

I think this is the way to go!

[@CentristRN]

The clothes I wear when eating are also those I might sleep in if it gets cold. Seems like an area I can only control so much. Thoughts?

[@StephenEscallier]

Same here. I just swap them if I get food on them and in the bag they go!

[@hrmIwonder]

Same here. If cooking something other than rehydrating meals, be sure to stand up wind from your stove.

[@StephenEscallier]

@@hrmIwonder excellent suggestion!!

[@danielsingh9415]

What about a bib? I picked up one for my Mother-in-Law, she was 92 with late-stage Alzheimer's but I was thinking a waterproof cuban fiber one with a catcher on the bottom, like the tent vents that fold out & attach with velcro. The bib goes in the food bag, in the Opsack, in the Ursack & u can save space & get more peace of mind?

[@_iErik]

I hadn't yet heard reports of bears defeating UrSacks on the SHT. I know there are bears in the Adirondacks that have defeated BearVault canisters.

[@StephenEscallier]

Happened to a buddy of mine sadly. Section 13 site.

[@hermeticallysealed]

you had me at sacks

[@StephenEscallier]

😂😂

[@20Hikecdt23]

How about a Sea-to-Summit waterproof bag? ONe where you roll the top and clip it together.

[@StephenEscallier]

I have used those, also dyneema bags. But they fail quickly if a bear gets to them.

[@MidwestBackpacker]

Ursacks just aren't worth it. Opsacks are terrible and don't seal well. Agreed on the cross contamination with hands. Almost impossible to prevent. 90% of Ursacks are hung on a trail and too close to camp (bear bags too). Ursacks need to be wider and not so tubular. You often have to empty all the food to get to something on the bottom which contributes towards contamination. Know anybody the repairs ursacks? I have an FKT coming up. :-)

[@_iErik]

What do you use, just a standard dry sack bear bag hang?

[@bigriver47]

Back in 1990's I had a muley doe enter my tent twice after granola in my puffer pocket. This happened near Flint Creek in the Weminuche Wilderness.

[@BohemianAdventurers]

Molly here with Bohemian: I have heard that the canister is nice for those that do carry it because it doubles as a place to sit when a person is deep in the woods. I will say you have me curious about Ursacks though!

[@StephenEscallier]

I agree about canisters!

[@rev.johnpate3231]

Got it! Yeah getting a canister & using some scent-proof bags.

[@edgarhume8184]

I'm pretty sure that this is what most of the content of the UFO/UAP videos that are intended for other UFU's/UAP's viewing, consists of.

[@Nightbird-u2z]

I'm just going to carry the B450 canister on the AT. Yes, it's awkward. There's nothing that's really 100% fool proof and a bear might roll it away and punt it off a ledge, but it's less likely he'll get the food. As for me? Wah, my food is gone. I hope I have enough fat stores to make it three miles to the next road crossing where trail angels are serving burgers the size of my head.

[@arcoulant87]

Thanks

[@DASHToTheEnd]

Hey Stephen, I hear what you saying, but out on the trail it is extremely difficult to not cross contaminate food scent to the Ursack or other bags. Have you looked at attempting to mask scent? I read articles here and there about bears not liking the smell of moth balls or Pine Sol. I haven't tried any of that yet with my Ursack, but seems plausible if there are trace scents it could be a deterrent.

[@StephenEscallier]

I have not but will look into it!

[@ewingfox6459]

​@@StephenEscallier bears hate PineSol - but what I'm curious about is if you keep your cookware / stove in your Ursack - I'm just a a dope but have been backpacking in bear country since the late 1980's. I've always used a vinyl drybag, and hang it whenever possible or put it FAR away from camp (kitchen 200' from sleep, bag 250' from sleep) - thinking about updating my means and methods to the Ursack. Pinesol wipes on the exterior of the bag/can is a thing - A buddy used one once to 'freshen up' (some ladies on the trail lol) - we told him it was a BAD IDEA - and he learned the hard way lol - pine Sol is NOT a good option for personal hygene :D

[@StephenEscallier]

@@ewingfox6459 I put anything with scent in my bear bag! Utensils, toothbrush, clothes that I eat in if I get any food scent on them, hygiene products! I tend to do dehydrated meals so my pots are generally food scent free.

[@buffyvachon8026]

Great info

[@E_Clampus_Vitus]

IMO, Ursack isn’t an option. The whole point of preventing bears from eating your food is that bears learn to seek out human food and this ruins their lives. Since, people do lose their food to bears when using Ursacks, that’s a complete fail.

[@christianb8228]

I know people who use Ursack and never had any issues and they live near bear country there’s a guy who tested it here on KZbin on his property with trail game cams and the bears or the raccoons didn’t get the food so don’t just believe some other guys bull 💩

[@E_Clampus_Vitus]

@@christianb8228 Im basing my opinion from what I’ve seen on trail. I’ve never heard of, or experienced any problems with the canisters. I’ve heard several first hand accounts of problems with the bags. For me the problem is incentivizing the bear to human food and the bags still do this. To be honest if I’m in black bear country and canisters are not required, I’ll just sleep with my food. I’ve never had a problem or heard of any problems firsthand. If a bag works for you, that’s cool. Personally, I’m looking at the carbon fiber canister. Canisters are required in areas I like to hike.

[@ewvasquez2001]

So the "rodent bag" relies on easier food access in the same way your survival in a zombie apocalypse (or bear attack) relies on a slower, less in-shape friend nearby. Seems like that's not really the best plan.

[@StephenEscallier]

I agree. I think hanging to avoid rodents is a better option.

[@Archer21344]

The major isn't rodent proof either. Only the almighty

[@StephenEscallier]

The almighty states it is but I have read a lot of people saying rodents have zero issues chomping through it.

[@udance4ever]

​@@StephenEscallier while I agree it’s not foolproof - isn’t the point that Ursack is willing to replace the Allmitey and *won’t* replace the Major due to critter damage?

[@StephenEscallier]

@@udance4ever that’s a good point!

[@nedsled2994]

Holly cow, I think it would just make sense to learn how to hang a bear bag. I have been hanging one for 30 years, never once had a problem. I'm in the north east, perhaps you are somewhere where there are no trees, I guess then it this sack vs a canister. I have to use a canister in the ADK, but they don't allow Ursacks,.. so not really sure how useful they are.