Classic Who "Warrior's Gate" Parts 1&2 Reaction

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[@TheElderBlotch]

While I've never been too big on Warrior's Gate, it is probably one of the best-looking stories in the classic era. So many creatively filmed sequences and so much surreal atmosphere thanks to some shadow directing by Graeme Harper - the same man who would go on to direct two revered classics then return to the show in the 2000s to direct a slew of spectacular 10th Doctor episodes. Guy's a legend behind the camera. And Captain Rorvik and his blue collar crew are a chilling example of casual evil.

[@rogershore3128]

I suspect he was cast because of his role in Secret Army...... Love the story.

[@ryanpollard1166]

Warriors' Gate is one of the Fourth Doctor's most underrated stories and stands as my personal favourite of the season alongside State of Decay (thanks for posting this reaction on my birthday!). A beautiful, violent and very thought-provoking conclusion to the E-Space trilogy that's about immoral capitalist and commercialist greed entrapping, restricting and enslaving imagination and creativity. Paul Joyce's direction is exceptional, and both the script and acting display maturity, adding to the slow-burn atmosphere and tension. It's visually and conceptually bizarre, which baffled a lot of viewers at the time since it was more high-concept than the traditional monster stories, however, its visual innovation and inventive narrative structure makes it all the more exciting and enduring. It's a miracle that this story is as good as it is considering that the behind-the-scenes production on this was a nightmare. It was difficult and disruptive due to industrial action, extensive rewrites to Steve Gallagher's original script in order to make his more outlandish ideas more practical to film on a studio budget, and major disputes between the director and the studio workers with Joyce unable to appreciate the limitations of a multi-camera studio setup and wanted to be bold, experimental and more filmic in his approach. This led to production overrunning by a few days and so, he was fired but then got re-instated.

[@Problembeing]

Happy Birthday!

[@highvoltage7797]

Such a great story and the directing is so ambitious for Classic DW. Great atmosphere as well. Just really well done.

[@chrisbrooker7260]

One of Dr Who’s all-time great moments. Brilliantly written, filmed, acted. Rorvik and his squabbling, lazy crew are a real bunch of people for once. Amazing stuff - and Lalla Ward’s ‘signal’ is as sexy as hell

[@nocturne8333]

I love Warriors’ Gate, it’s in my top ten Classic Who stories. It’s one of the most visually and thematically interesting stories of the Classic era, and Romana is a style icon as always.

[@rogershore3128]

Agreed. Could you imagine what it would look like if it had a CGI overhaul to match the excellent 5.1 surround track it got on the box set. It would be jaw dropping....

[@stephenchurchill2418]

I'll have to rewatch it as I clearly missed something. I truly want to like it but I just found season 18 slow and slower. When I see a clip of season 18 its looks so fresh as I've only seen it twice since transmission. I now feel inspired to blow the dust off my unwatched blu-ray and watch this story through new eyes so thanks for the inspiration....

[@rogershore3128]

@@stephenchurchill2418 As a 62 year old I"ve been dipping in and out of the blu-ray box sets. Some stories have aged well, others not do but I find having watched season 18 last year after all these decades, It has a freshness and bounce which still shines today.... I can watch every story and find something new and unusual for Dr Who it has a running theme throughout the episodes which is not obvious at first. Took me a while to twig that one on.

[@stephenchurchill2418]

@@rogershore3128 Thanks for that.. I will undoubtedly try to relive your experience

[@nocturne8333]

@@stephenchurchill2418 I think I’m partial to Warriors’ Gate because of how similar it is to a Moffat script. It’s got a completely unique setting and is extremely well directed. It’s also focused on its themes and using time almost as an extra character in the story. It’s also got some class warfare undertones that also appear in Moffat’s scripts. I completely get that it’s a marmite episode though.

[@bjgandalf69]

Here is an example where extensive use of green screen and CSO (color separation overlay) actually works (unlike the much maligned Underworld...lol). Of course, this serial had real physical sets for both the exterior of the spaceship and the Gate). Just having most of the setting to be a void was a budget saver but also a bit of a curse as it was difficult to make the void look right but the production team managed to pull it off. Considering all the difficulties in mounting this recording, its a wonder it turned out as good as it did.

[@Problembeing]

Warrior's Gate was one of those stories that stuck in my memory as a kid. I really like the high concept. This is Doctor Who at it's more serious sci-fi.

[@ladycplum]

That's how it was during Chris Bidmead's era as script editor. He wanted to give everything a more "back to basics" sci-fi approach that he felt the show had lost over the years.

[@AnotherScifiGuy]

I really enjoy how well this story is executed on screen.

[@thomashartwell4335]

@@ladycplum What's fascinating about Bidmead, of course, is that even while he's much more focused on real science and terminology, his stories also consistently have this dreamlike, poetic quality to them--Warrior's Gate most especially. He straddles the line between sci-fi and fantasy extremely well.

[@seedhillbruisermusic7939]

warriors gate is amazing but don't ask me to explain it. If you're happy to not totally understand something then this story is for you. If however you need everything to make sense then maybe this story is not for you and you should just pass it by. Whether you understand it or not, it looks bloody gorgeous.

[@rogershore3128]

Even after 40 years I still don't understand a lot of it but that's the fun of it..... A story that makes you think and do your head in at the same time.

[@Faction.Paradox]

This story utterly melted my mind watching as a kid on VHS, now I adore it. It not only stretched the storytelling & format of the show but (tried) some new cinematography. Just read the recent Target novel of this and it's fantastic also.

[@Stephen-Fox]

I absolutely adore this story. Easily my favourite of the season, and probably one of my favourite of classic Who.

[@rogershore3128]

A genuine and rare attempt at pure sci-fi with the intelligence to match. The dark vibe is because it's a metaphor for slavery and its consequences...... You wouldn't be disappointed with parts 3 and 4....

[@glenmcculla6843]

I LOVE this story. Like me, it looks wonderful and is utterly insane.🤪 It's like Jean Cocteau meets Duran Duran in a crack lounge.

[@Allancarlostani]

Unpopular opinion... or maybe it's a popular opinion now? You never know with fandom... Anyway, I LOVE "Warrior's Gate". I remember when I watched it for the first time, I was immediately hooked by the mystery and spent the entire four episodes thinking "I have no idea what's going on, but I'm loving it." (I eventually understood in the end... I think). Also, it's a visually beautiful story. It's easily among my favorites from the Fourth Doctor era and also from the John Nathan-Turner era. Having said all that, I understand those who don't like this story for the same reasons I mentioned.

[@Faction.Paradox]

At the risk of generalising I think this story has undergone a change of reputation. When I was a kid it was the weird one with the lion that no one understood, but now I think people are more familiar with bizzare imagery and stories are much more comfortable with the audience not instantly knowing what's happening at all times

[@DonnaLang42rockglobally]

I remember watching Warrior's Gate when it aired on PBS in the 80s; I was in high school at that time and a huge theatre nerd, so the minimalist sets along with the pacing and the character conflict really drew me in. Fortunately the local PBS station aired Doctor Who on week days just after dinner, so my first viewing was rapid fire and only lasted 4 days. As an added bonus, I recognized an actor from a supernatural British detective show I watched in the early 70s - a show called "Randall and Hopkirk (Deceased)". When it aired in America, it was renamed "My Partner The Ghost" which imho is kind of a lack-luster title. Kennneth Cope (who played Packard in this story) played the role of Marty Hopkirk in the 1969 to 1970 version of that show - I highly recommend it as either a potential reaction show or just for fun outside of KZbin.

[@Melancthon7332]

The Waiting For Godot of Classic Who. I love it in all it's gloomy, portentious, abstract glory.

[@Sandman_jazz1983]

This is one which requires a few viewings to fully appreciate (plus reading both versions of the novelisation helps). This is director Paul Joyce's first and only Doctor Who, he was not asked back due to overruns and generally not following the BBC Director's etiquette

[@ladycplum]

Same thing happened to Lovett Bickford, the man who directed The Leisure Hive. Go over budget? Hasta la vista!

[@shankthebat8654]

This is easily my favorite Tom Baker episodes. The set of the slaver ship is amazing. BTW, the interior and exterior shots of the Tharil castle on the other side of the mirror are Powis Castle and Garden in Mid Wales, still pretty much looks exactly the same.

[@cameronmonaghan6883]

STOP THAT GUNDAN!!!! Don't know why but I love that line

[@Tyrconnell]

Kenneth Cope, who plays Packard, was one of the stars of a very unorthodox detective show called 'Randall and Hopkirk (Deceased)' (he played 'deceased'). You might like it. The show was revived in the 2000s with Tom Baker as a regular guest star. Cope's daughter Martha (who i was at drama school with - namedrop) played the Controller of the Game Station in 'Bad Wolf'.

[@ladycplum]

I knew about Randall and Hopkirk, but I had no idea that was his daughter as the Controller. Great bit of trivia there!

[@Skeezer66]

Do you know if that 'Randall and Hopkirk' reboot is on Britbox or Acorn?

[@Tyrconnell]

@@Skeezer66Afraid i don't. I'm old school and have them on DVD. I'm sure someone else must know.

[@TheZodiacz]

Kenneth Cope was in Carry On At Your Convenience and Carry on Matron with Bernard Bresslaw (the original Ice Warrior) as his offsider.

[@Tyrconnell]

@@TheZodiacz I think mentioning Carry On films to an American is opening a can of worms you may wish had remained closed....

[@TheBrainOfMorbius]

I love this one, it's one of my absolute favourites. Probably a top 20. Definitely rewards multiple viewings.

[@Alfwin]

I love this story! I'm always a fan of whenever Doctor Who gets weird and experimental like this

[@Eltonlaleham]

Romana,s outfit is awesome black trousers and orange top I like Biroc the Tharil he is awesome and he is a strong man the way he breaks free from his captors and confronts crewman Lane who has a bushy beard is awesome too. I suspected when I first saw this story, aged 12 Captain Rorvik was a villain and his manner is brusque and aggressive.

[@Wannabe_Baby]

I don't understand Warrior's Gate. But it does have one of my favourite Romana moments, at 7:48. I wish Romana's first actress (Mary Tamm) got more scenes like that. Your moment at 11:15 reminded me of a similar moment in your reaction to "The Sensorites", where a character said "shh" and you said "no-one was talking!" :D

[@kant12]

I've always loved this episode. Such a cool idea.

[@Faerie_Kim]

Warrior's gate is one of my favourites 🙂

[@alexfletcher5192]

'How do you know she's a Time Sensitive?' leads to a grisly realisation. The actor taking the role of Packard here is Kenneth Cope, who was known for comedy roles (in the successful 'Carry On...' film series - the first of which had starred a pre-Who William Hartnell) and as the late Marty Hopkirk; one half of ITC's semi-supernatural crime series 'Randall & Hopkirk (Deceased)' - a revived version featured Tom Baker. Still with us, in his 90's, he's also the father of Martha Cope - who was the tragic, but pivotal, Controller of the Gamestation in Dr Who's Series One finale 'The Parting of the Ways'. Everything on this show is six or less degrees of separation....

[@bobdallas4860]

Absolutely peak Season 18 for me (from a season that really has some strong stories and generally much better than the Graham Williams years, Seasons 15-17). I'm really looking forward to the next two parts and the rest of the season as a whole. I feel like Christopher Bidmead's vision of Doctor Who is the one that appeals to me the most.

[@KentuckyBrad]

In doctor who Canon, although we don't see it on the show, Romana becomes president of gallifrey and her attempted assassination by the Daleks is one of the events leading up to the beginning of the time war

[@owenwildish331]

I'm pretty sure this particular Doctor Who story might be the very first one I vaguely remember ever seeing Doctor Who as a little child; I certainly have fuzzy, distinct memories of the big spaceship & K-9 in this... I must have been 2 & 3 at the time during its 1981 broadcast, and it began my love of the series and Sci-Fi & Fantasy in general.

[@Problembeing]

It was this and Destiny that were my strongest and earliest memories. It's such a visually striking story.

[@MrTheevilmage]

I REALLY like this story

[@russytherutan]

The actor playing Rorvik at the time had just finished playing a real nasty TV villain in 3 series of a World War II BBC drama. He played the Head of The Gestapo in Brussels. He was chilling and ruthless. Warriors Gate is very different but I like it and go along for the ride. Beautiful visuals which is a very strong feature of this brilliant season.

[@NyderOfSkaro]

Also worth remembering that the Doctor is supposed to be taking Romana back to Gallifrey, and it is only getting trapped in E-Space that got in the way of that. And Romana is not happy about it!

[@Danbutch24]

Warriors Gate already? Blimey. 👀

[@HudsonMedia]

Goodluck with this story 😭😂 it’s certainly not one for people who want an easy ride. I personally find the narrative really fascinating and with every watch I start to understand it more and more.

[@GhostPurple69]

i like this story. it's peculiar. 😆 if only doctor who were this odd and experimental more often. those are most of my favorites in both the classic series and new.

[@GhostPurple69]

season 18 is pretty good for strange serials like this-and both seasons 19 and 20 have a good handful in this vein. then there's basically the whole sylvester mccoy era, which is mostly the good kind of bonkers all the way through 😆

[@alexfletcher5192]

The stern voice of the robot Gundan is that of Clifford Norgate, who had also given us the raspy textures of the Nimon the previous season.

[@Eltonlaleham]

K9 getting damaged has happened several times and also the sets on the main villain Captain Rorvik,s ship are awesome in billions, tens of billions of ways and hundreds of billions of ways also the 2 men making bets Aldo and Royce are funny and they are bored stiff and Romana been shoved into the chair was savage and the Gundan warriors are awesome too.

[@keithsolley]

in the late 1980's there used to be a BBC series called Telly Addicts,hosted by Noel Edmonds,consisting of 2 rival teams made up of family members ,who each had their own name,i remember one such team calling themselves 'Warrior's Gate' ,inspired by this particular story

[@ianbuckley2347]

Nice reaction to a great story Jess. This season is criminally underrated by a lot of fans but I love it. There's lots of stuff that make you think and not all Doctor Who does that!🙂

[@alexfletcher5192]

Season 18 arrives in '81 with a story people either like or dislike for pretty much the same reasons. It also had a complicated passage to screen. Despite its longevity, the show had always struggled to attract authors beyond the realm of TV. Sci-fi author Tanith Lee was approached but it came to nothing (although she did pen two interesting episodes for Dr Who's homegrown rival, Terry Nation's 'Blakes 7', at around the same time). Novelist Christopher Priest was the original writer for this slot in the season, but the task eventually landed on radio scribe Stephen Gallagher - who later adapted and expanded this piece for his Target novelisation. The production itself soon ran into trouble when Director Paul Joyce decided to play the auteur, despite the show's well-known lack of time and resources. Indeed, he was initially fired; assistant Graeme Harper (a name that also crops up on some Nu-Who episodes) temporarily replacing him until he was reinstated. So if the whole thing feels a bit weird and disjointed, that could be why!

[@Eltonlaleham]

I do wish Seska Adric,s brother Varsh, could have become a companion and also I do not trust Captain Rorvik and his mercenaries they IMO are fishy and sly. I like the scene where Biroc goes through the mirror, and his handcuffs fall off.

[@Eltonlaleham]

I say Seska, this story when I first saw it, back in 1981 aged 12 for me was very strange and I did not understand it and much as I have seen it since on VHS and DVD it still is strange for me.

[@bobchisholm7487]

This story confused the heck out of me when I first saw it when was younger. I'll be curious to see what you think of it.

[@AndyRossism]

Take design inspiration from Jean Cocteau, throw in Philosophy from the I Ching, Hannah Ardent's the Banality of Evil, a splash of hard Sci Fi, some dry underrated humour and you have my sort of story! I don't get why people find it baffling at all! But then I tend to like Who being on the weirder side of things.

[@whobp8]

There is some fascinating and innovative directorial work in this story, but achieving them meant that the director repeatedly went overtime during filming. He was actually fired at one point, but brought back when they found that no one else could make heads or tails out of his shooting scripts. Personally, I think the end result is kinda cool, but this particular director was never invited to work on the show again.

[@andrewgwilliam4831]

Definitely a "Marmite" story, but I love it!

[@robbiebonham]

I always had trouble wrapping my head around this story.

[@robbiebonham]

Also, looking forward to when you get to Logopolis, my childhood introduction to the show.

[@jimcat6795]

7:27 I don't know about that Romana, that signal's awfully subtle

[@davidpo5517]

I love this era of Doctor Who, so I watched this whole story this past week, as well as the next few stories. I'm planning on binging the next few seasons ahead of you to remind myself of them, since it's been a while. I love the disturbing atmosphere of this one, how something's just not quite right, like the backroom of spacetime. It's a really dark story, but it's so visually, piercingly white. It's somehow more off putting. And then you find out it's what's left of an ancient kingdom that was built off the backs of slaves who created robots to rise up and destroy them. Imo, the biggest problem is that the first two parts are too slow. Also, I love those two guys who get all the crap work--they're like career union blue-collar workers who are too used to their job, who sit around watching the rest of the crew cycle through. I like to think they've seen at least 10 different captains at this point. Even if what the crew is doing is...less than moral, the story is somehow better with their inclusion. I will just warn you, the new showrunner for this era of Who wanted to start catering towards a more mature audience, so if you think this story is horrific, future stories will get quite violent, although they do settle down again after.

[@joshuajoshua2732]

Last story of the E-Space Trilogy.

[@callac]

What happened to that gorgeous compilation someone made of lots of your reactions to Doctor Who? Did they delete the video?

[@Skeezer66]

THIS is one of the 2 most 'timey-whimey' stories ever in Classic Who! The other is a ways off. I could not really get it when I first saw it, it's SO different from the usual! I did like the look of the aliens and the whole alien atmosphere!!

[@thethinkingcatakaneonormie3527]

The writer of this story was really young compared to most dr who writers and would also write Terminus my favourite 5th doctor story.

[@therealpbristow]

He was already making big waves as a novelist, though, and went on to write a big one-off BBC series, "Chimera".

[@Jaketherobonrd]

I didn’t know the cowedly Lion guest starred in Doctor Who. Jokes aside i do find Warriors Gate to be quite convoluted to follow.

[@KentuckyBrad]

Really? 😂😂😂😂

[@markmullins8622]

Dollar tree Aslan is kinda cool tho 😂

[@stevemorganexperience7833]

The doctor knows, but he didn’t introduce himself to us, so how did I know he was the doctor

[@BadWisdom523]

It’s “what if Waiting for Godot was sci-fi, and, was also about slavery”

[@ladycplum]

I have to admit this one confused me when I first saw it. I thought the design work in some cases was beautiful. The Tharils were wonderfully-realized creatures, and I liked the sort of "Alien"-esque weariness of the crew. But I still spent most of my time saying "What the HELL is going on???"

[@therealpbristow]

Funny you should mention Alien... Guess whose old sets they hired several chunks of? =:o}

[@williamhuebler68]

The humor is rather subtle, intellectual, dark, and dry, but it’s actually quite funny. It is one that a second rewatch helps with. You mentioned the apathy. I love that only the captain seems be motivated to act on the crew. The rest are clearly just doing their jobs. Jobs they don’t really like. Just like the rest of us. And so they put in the bare minimum of effort, lol. And they r bored and hopeless after months being stuck. Whether it works or not I never fault the show for these more experimental episodes. I think this one really works especially on rewatch, but it is def not for everyone.

[@williamhuebler68]

K9 giving a margin of error larger than his probability estimate, then giving a margin of error for the margin of error, and a margin of error in the margin of error of the margin of error is just hysterical to me.

[@gregevigan]

When I first watched this story I didn't have a clue what was going on. (I still don't. But don't tell anyone)

[@tenmark7055]

Question for the group... Romana I or Romana II? For me it's 2.

[@cruelangel8689]

Romana 1 for me.

[@BulbasaurRepresent]

Fred!

[@mark-s]

​@@cruelangel8689neither next companion please

[@therealpbristow]

For a long time I was firmly in the Romana II camp, but Romana I has grown on me over the years. It's interesting to try to imagine her if she'd been in this season, written as the confident, competent equal to the Doctor rather than as the cocky fresh graduate who needs to learn some street-smarts.

[@Skeezer66]

Do I prefer chocolate cake or chocolate ice cream? I love both at different times. I can imagine this Romana getting a spin off show like she does in Big Finish, but the 1st Romana was so refreshing as a companion who was most The Doctor's equal when she joined.

[@jimcat6795]

I don't know if I trust Biroc. I think he's Lion.

[@joshuajoshua2732]

It's very confusing storytelling wise but I do love this story if you don't study it too hard it is pretty enjoyable for what it is and like the Marshmen two stories ago before I feel so sorry for the Tharils specially that torture scene all though it was accidental on those two clumsy men that is probaly yet the most traumatising and most chilling scene yet i loved back then the writers took risks which i feel they don't do enough with today's Dr. Who. The sets are fantastic i agree. I have to say regarding Romana's scream this might be a controversial opinion I do miss the days of screaming companions because Classic companions always shows their brave but at the same time terrified what annoys me about the NuWho companions is their not terrified enough and are too over confident which was one the reasons I could not stand Clara Oswald. Don't worry it's totally fine if you can't relate to Adric you can't like every companion the Doctor comes across Adric's a mixed bag with some fans. The situation with K-9 as I explained before was a very difficult prop to work with on set which is why K-9 is often out of commission despite being the most loveable character particulary with the kids most of the cast and crew could not stand working with him and really wanted ways of getting rid of him.

[@roborob4296]

i cant recall if i said this before so sorry if its a repeat but i feel adric is the doctor who version of wesley crusher. this smart but annoying kid traveling with us. for me TNG was my childhood and i always wished i could be this smart kid on a space ship seeing aliens and other worlds. though he was so smart it made me wish i was smart like him but not many kids could measure up to that so i always felt stupid. not really seeing adric until i was an adult i find him to just be this annoying kid. so curious how many kinds during this era of doctor who might have looked up to him. i think thats why he was created seeing how a teen wrote his introduction. unless adric was always planned and he was just inserted into that story and stuck around.

[@plan_r4005]

You need to get in on Shogun asap, your missing out on a great show

[@Polyglot85to90]

File this story under "Just plain weird"

[@RangaTurk]

That is why it is so good with such an appropriate title. This season was one of the best from the 1980s.

[@iainmulholland2025]

I've never liked adric he's more of a pain than anything.

[@mark-s]

One of my worst stories from this season poor effects at least after this one the tardis team is shaken up and the stories improve immensely roll on 2 weeks time

[@Joey15811]

So after 2 great stories back go dud stories. This one is a love or loathe and no inbetween I find and seems to be an anquired taste.

[@the_lichemaster]

Not one of my favourites. Too batshit crazy.

[@conscienceaginBlackadder]

What is this copying Star Trek with warp drives ?

[@therealpbristow]

Warp drives were a legit scientific concept arising from General Relativity, before Star Trek was created. And still are, although the consensus is they'll never be practical to actually build unless we discover some utterly ground-breaking new physics.