Set-Up Tips And Tricks : tone ring fit

Let's take a look at the tone ring and rim and discuss the fit of the parts.

[@peterjohnson724]

Thanks John. Always great to learn more about banjo bits and pieces.

[@JohnBoulding]

Always glad to share what I have learned.

[@charlesjohnson4544]

Excellent knowledge ... Thank You

[@nechvillebanjos]

Good job John!

[@JohnBoulding]

Thanks Tom,hope you are doing well and selling lots of banjos!

[@claudineibernardes3017]

Hi John. I hope you are doing well and surviving the pandemy. Here is Brazil is awful. but I am still alive. I am 69, jazz drummer, and guitar scratcher and decided to lear the banjo about 6 months ago. I do not know any banjo tech/luthier, so your videos are helping a lot, both the ones dealing with fixing the banjo and the great classes you poste. I sill have to check the videos on scales since I don´t know how to play them. The shapes are easily found on the net, however, the way to finger them are not. I can pick the scales on the guitar, but on the banjo, since we use most three fingers, I have not figured it out well yet. Also I am looking for your videos 3, 4, and 5 (if I recall it correctly) about fixing the banjo. Since I cant take my banjos (actually I have more than one, all kind of student models, because it is impossibly expensive to import a nice USA one and here you cant find one. And if you do, it is awayfully expensive too. Anyhow, thank you for your taking the time to help us mortal musicians. I lived 24 years in the USA, I adore the country, but had to come back to Brazil, wife was sick and I lost my 34 years banking job (we have some agencies in the USA), She died one year after we came back. Now I am too old to go back (I hold an American passport, proudly and sadly (because I can go back). My retirement is also too low to afford to live in the USA. My daughter lives in Miami (since she was 8 months old). She is now 41. Be safe, be well and God bless. CB

[@JohnBoulding]

So sorry to hear about the covid in Brazil! But also very gals to hear you are ok. So gals my videos are helpful to you. Thank you for telling me..I hope one day you can get to return to the USA.

[@charlesbates7429]

Great video explaining how it should be set up. If one has a tight fit, what is the remedy? Is it, or can it be a home do-it-yourself remedy or does the banjo need to come into the shop? Also I find your videos exceptionally valuable and informative! Thank you. Chuck

[@JohnBoulding]

Chuck, thank you for the feedback! If the ring fit inst massively tight, which requires a lathe turning, you can use a single edged razor blade, keeping it flush to the blade flush,while spinning the rim by hand on a flat level surface, under a.towel. you'll be "hand turning it". Don't use sandpaper and your finger tips as it won't be an accurate trim. The razor blade work much better

[@charlesbates7429]

@@JohnBoulding Thank you John... I really appreciate the help... very much!!!

[@charlesbates7429]

@@JohnBoulding I have a Deering Saratoga Star and the tone ring was so tight I could not remove it. I got a cookie sheet (so the heat would not dissipate), spread out a heating pad, and set the pot down with the ring in contact with heating pad to expand the tone-ring. I let it set for about 20 minutes after which I was able to slip my fingernail between the rim and the tone-ring and the ring started moving. It came off okay. It took a couple of hours of shaving using a razor blade and box cutter blade as the fit was so tight, but I finally "hit pay-dirt" and I now have a slip fit. I'm sure you have some other ideas regarding a stuck ring. Again, thanks for your encouragement and help. Chuck

[@JohnBoulding]

@@charlesbates7429 cool, I'm glad you got it fixed. A fit that tight would be where I would use the lathe for a rim that out of rounds as it's much faster.

[@nicw1826]

Have you come across any of the Ibanez Artist banjos from the seventies John?.From what I've heard from an Ibanez expert eg the Kulesh rings fit pretty well on the tube and plate cut multi-ply rims but there seems to be a fault re the tubes ie a gap at the tailpiece side.I've seen these fixed with a tiny oblong piece of brass soldered/braised? inside.Always possible to buy a new tube I suppose but predominantly nickel-plated with the need to acquire the services of a chrome-plater.

[@CountryClassicCovers]

Folks, I just got my RK-35 Madison back from John and I’m not sure I really got the same banjo back.😉..What a huge difference in ‘Ol Maddy’s feel and sound! John adjusted the heel and tone ring fit which has allowed for superb action as well as opened up the sound/tone . He also added one of his JB bridges. One thing I forgot to tell John was the 5th string peg being a bit off center/crooked, but it caught his eye and he fixed it. If you’re thinking about having your jo setup RIGHT, contact John...he’s not only a Master Luthier but also a Pro Musician. By the way, I shipped the banjo from Oklahoma and packed it right myself...costly yes, but worth the effort, cost and of course, the reward! My sincere thanks again John...CW-Oklahoma

[@JohnBoulding]

Thank you so much for your business and for the kind words!

[@davycrokett3862]

@@JohnBoulding hey John whear you live at

[@JohnBoulding]

@@davycrokett3862 mount airy NC

[@davycrokett3862]

@@JohnBoulding hey John not to far maby you work on my gibson sometimes let me no if you can ty very much for reply

[@JohnBoulding]

@@davycrokett3862 sure be glad to work on it. Just drop me a message when you want to bring it over

[@TrippingTheTube]

Where can I get a new rim that would work with my Epiphone EB-98? The flange side is 10 1/2" while the head side is 11". Also has just the brass ring for the tone rim. Seems hard to find an upgrade.

[@davedoust7921]

I'm thinking of casting my own bronze tone ring for my deering sierra. If I cast it from the one on my banjo is it hard to remove my current one?

[@JohnBoulding]

As long as you are competent forgive metals id say go for it. Molten bronze is dangerous stuff to work with, like any high temp metal melting and casting. Removing the ring can be pretty easy or hard, depending on how tight the fit is. I use gentle heat to expand the metal and have a couple of very thin but strong spatula blades I use to help remove it without damaging the rim.

[@jbcurdog72]

Richard kulesh also made a 10 hole.

[@Gixxer340]

Great video Mr. Boulding. I have a question though. How should the fit be for a flathead tone ring on a tube and plate rim. Do all the same parameters apply? Slip fit and contact the inner surface before the outer surface? I would assume so, but I just wanted to check. Thank you

[@JohnBoulding]

Yep same fit

[@Gixxer340]

@@JohnBoulding Thank you

[@userjones3399]

Im seriously considering a Sloan ring. Before that it would have been a burlile. I have a 2001 Gibson granada reissue all original my question to you is, I’m not happy with the tone as I get past the 2nd feet it starts to sound tinny and with no openness/depth , but it sound nice and open in open G tuning. I have to pick really hard, “pulling tone” if you will as I capo up the neck. What would be your suggestion maybe start with a tone ring and have it fitted to the original Granada rim?

[@userjones3399]

I’m really after something than sounds similiar to Ron Stewart or Jim Mills. There banjo ring and stay open when they are capo up the neck.

[@JohnBoulding]

@@userjones3399 the Sloan ring will give you depth of tone and power anywhere on the neck. It really opens up any well made banjo across the whole tonal spectrum . His newest por is ring 222. I just installed one in a customers 1988 rb-3 and it transformed it.

[@AnnLippert1]

My banjo is from the 1970s and the head has ripples on one side. I'm 99.9% sure the wooden rim is no longer ROUND. What should I do? can rims be stretched back to being round?

[@JohnBoulding]

No, but it can be lathe turned to get the tone ring mating area back in round, if it's not too severe

[@conway5901]

Good morning John I bought a 70s Gibson master tone and had some fretwork done I installed a new head and tuned with drum gauge like a do On my RB3 and it sounds like s*** took the bridge off my rb3 still sounds like s***• I checked the gape where the tone ring sets down on the wood rim and it has an air gap at least the thickness of a piece of typing paper, is it possible that could account for the lack of sound and especially tone?

[@conway5901]

I realize most of those banjos didn’t sound like all that great but this one is just inexcusable any input would really be appreciated.

[@JohnBoulding]

@@conway5901 the tonering definitely needs to be a slip fit,and also resting on the top of the rim to develop it's best tone. Head tension also varies by banjo, as to finding the sweet spot. You can also try different bridges and put your tailpiece in different settings to try and dial in the tone you are looking for

[@charlesjohnson4544]

Those 70s Gibson banjos had a five ply rim instead of the common three ply rim which is probably why it does not sound that good ... Also the outside lip of the rim is painted black which is a big clue that it is from the 70s and has a five ply rim ...

[@nechvillebanjos]

I’d like visit sometime. Banjo dudes need to stick together.

[@mikefinley4367]

You might be able to answer this ... I'm disabled and finances are worse than I want to say. On order to get the banjo type I desire I am looking into parts build. I'm wondering if something like a RKR 20 Songster pot can be re turned for a flàthead tone ring ?

[@JohnBoulding]

Shoot me a message and I can help you with the RK line as I'm an RK endorsed artist

[@mikefinley4367]

@@JohnBoulding The question asked is the message why send another if you don't understand you merely needed to answer it? Called someone with common sense so thanks anyway.

[@JohnBoulding]

@@mikefinley4367 well I was going to offer to get you some discounted parts, but since you decided to be an ass never mind.