Seven Mountain Mandate and Dominionism Explained | Rediscover Bethel

[@Bethel_Online]

Watch the full episode here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ioekh5l6arSGobc To see the entire series go to: kzbin.info/aero/PLUaRlPOu98p0clsG0U0jGoU91tl5q3-sK

[@carmenmillermusic]

As a follower of Christ and a critical thinker; this is frightening.

[@Truthontheloose]

TERRIFYING!

[@chaserofthelight1737]

And they’er networking with churches in other countries to the same end. We’re late to the party, they been working on this for decades, quietly. Now they feel froggy enough to come out into the light, mainstream.

[@denniswilson6673]

It is nightmare -some made up relgious wet dream for a bunch of loser middle aged white men -

[@douglasmorgan-b6g]

yeah, you can see a direct correlation between that and 2025 project and it's only a small handful of people that are determining what's going to happen

[@stevepierce6467]

"I'll give you my arguments, which I think are the best, are the right ones." Every evangelical believer ever.

[@lopypop]

Imagine if this dogma was articulated from someone of a different religion. Would you find it scary?

[@Truthontheloose]

I'm not sure what religion this is exactly, but it's certainly NOT Christianity, whatever religion the whore of Babylon is apart of, I suppose. This theology is opposite from christian biblical theology. Either way it is truly terrifying because according to the BIBLE they will actually achieve the world domination they seek, by riding upon the beast. These are the servants Antichrist kingdom. They are completely mistaking the Antichrist Spirit for the Holy Spirit. They are under a strong delusion.

[@abbigailcarr2725]

Right? If it was a large push in Islam for Muslims to control the American government, media, education, etc? They’d call it terrorism and freak out.

[@twanettefourie3131]

Excellent point! That is why the Biblical illiterate believes the rightouess sounding statements in this conversation.

[@catie5939]

This is horrifying, but at least you're being honest about wanting to control everything. Creepy.

[@chaserofthelight1737]

What they’re trying to do is make selling a sack of de poop sound reasonable.

[@RobynAnn]

They listen to lying spirits, twist scripture, and teach out of their own arrogant imaginations. It’s SO good to know others are seeing through these men!!! They must be exposed more and more to protect the true body of Christ.

[@playinglifeoneasy9226]

It’s important to know what they’re thinking/planning.

[@bluezy710]

Holy cow! I've never seen so many unbiblical truths in one table talk. I kept hearing how Bethel has bad theology but because the music has good theology overall I never fully believed it...until now. I'm actually shocked with how New Age this movement is.

[@jeremycollins9258]

Look up what Wretched Radio has on Bethel.

[@RobynAnn]

I wonder if these deceivers read their comments? There’s no conviction. Scary what’s happening through these false teachers in these times.

[@dyerseve07]

But none of this is *really* in scripture.......so.........why go off this foundational thinking when we have the complete scripture before us?

[@Joshualovespeople]

It’s a pride thought. It sucks that they got off base like this

[@muthah3013]

One only has to look at the Taliban to imagine how the Seven Mountain Mandate would work in an American Christian theocracy. One is Islamic and the other is "Christian."

[@austins88]

Exactly. Dominionism theology is extremely dangerous for humanity. There are an estimated 2.5 billion Christians in the world. 3/8 of the population.

[@bipslone8880]

Christian Dominionism is just Theocracy and the American version is Christo-Fascism.

[@circuitsandparts]

Christian Reconstructionism is the worst facet of Dominion Theology and some within it advocated the stoning of Homosexuals. All of it is a slippery slope to fascism. This is not the Gospel.

[@Admiralty86]

Very very scary stuff. They play it off like they're just so nice but they will enslave, imprison and slaughter like lambs the infidels. They are 100% deluded, these are very damaged people. The very first line of the very first amendment of the Bill of Rights reads "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion". And that's the end of that.

[@fishndad4355]

As one who spent a lot of time around radical Islam while I was in the military, I see exactly what you see in regards to this type of religious philosophy. There's absolutely nothing in the Bible that tells us to follow what these NAR types preach in their churches. It's all witchcraft and will be exposed when Jesus Christ returns.

[@MS-lk2sk]

Never heard Jesus say get involved in culture, thats the problem with this theology, it is based on a fallacy and i am not a pre trib person. How can you read revelation and not see the world getting darker. You can not ignore prophecy because we are the light. Guess what people ignore the light all the time, look at our country.

[@MS-lk2sk]

@Dean Agnor thats because in the OT the whole of Israel was his inheritance from the nations. Israel was his nation. This is another fallacy of modern theology especially in America, that people think America is a modern Israel or the laughable, America is a christian nation. And your example breaks down again because Israel remained a separatist nation even after the Holy Spirit fell on them. They still didn't go to any nation.

[@MS-lk2sk]

@Dean Agnor being a blessing to the earth was about spreading his torah and now his new covenant, this world is not ours. Israel had the advantage in OT if being his nation, the NT gives us a new advantage, his spirir is in us and we are all a walking temple. We have one goal, helping people know Jesus. It is simple, if GOD wanted us in politics why didnt the church of Acts get involved in politics, they didn't because it was not nor ever the mission. Why doesn't paul tell us in scripture or his churches to get involved once a church is planted, because it is not the mission. We are not using mans ways to evangelize the world.

[@MS-lk2sk]

@Dean Agnor this world is cursed from adams fall, there is no saving it. If that was the way the bible would have explicit told us, to take over governments

[@MS-lk2sk]

@Dean Agnor your reply shows me you don't truelly grasp the gospel. Do you think people in china are suffering worse than 1st century christians. When Nero was burning christians. Yet the answer to this was was endure persecution and that a martyrs reward was for them. The answer has never been make society better. Chris V eschatology is just as bad the pre trib eschatology because both promote the idea that christians should escape suffering an persecution when the bible says the opposite. As to the idea of abortion in America. We are blessed to have a voice in america and use that voice in love but again i would point out that abortion was made legal when America was 90 percent christian and culture affirmed biblical morals and during the Jesus culture revolution, yet it still passed. Sorry brother, i have nothing against you, but this is just poor theology being taught at this church

[@MS-lk2sk]

@Dean Agnor everytime a revi al has happened why havent thise nations become fully christian with christian laws?

[@mysterious-benefactor]

2:15 who do we educate? What's that about? Just curious...

[@nathanwatson1915]

The stories (lies) we tell ourselves.

[@kearl3490]

"If truth is unclear it is only to false preachers, not the disciples or apostles or reformers or the puritans or Spurgeon or RC Sproul. Has it now become unclear bc of Jimmy Swagart, Jim Bakker, Kenneth Copeland? That is a ludicrous idea. Sound doctrine is always and has always been crystal clear." John MacArthur "Discernment is not discerning what is right or wrong it’s discerning what’s right and almost right." Charles Spurgeon

[@GeoCalifornian]

1:28 Neither the Gospels nor the Acts of the Apostles give Christians a ‘mandate’ to conquer culture in a nation. Just ‘make disciples of all nations’ as was Christ’s last instruction to us... Anything else is a spurious assignment, and it feeds man’s ego-centrism. /Lonewolf Liberties

[@pabloberea7295]

👏👏👏

[@pabloberea7295]

@Dean Agnor Hey Dean of Angmar. You don’t think it’s because of the nature of sin? No matter how much influence the church has it’ll corrupt.

[@GeoCalifornian]

@Dean Agnor -Name one tyrant that I had the wherewithal to place into power! That is very curious ... 😄 /Lonewolf Liberties

[@Parallelfifthsblog]

@Dean Agnor exactly…people like trump and all these republicans and establishment democrats have destroyed America…that’s why the last time we had a christian president in Jimmy Carter, people were unwilling to work with him because they all thought he was “too righteous…” 😂 it’s just easier to spread the gospel instead of taking over governments.

[@GeoCalifornian]

@Dean Agnor -Deano, perhaps you can be specific, in other words, what in the world does your over-generalized cancer and mentality statement mean?? Why are you so keen on deflecting? If you don’t know what you are talking about, then stop embarrassing yourself on this forum; we’ll understand... /Lonewolf Liberties

[@cyndih4720]

"And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are SEVEN MOUNTAINS, on which the woman sitteth." Revelation 17:4-9 "And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet color, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication. And upon her forehead was a name written, 'Mystery, Babylon the Great, the Mother of Harlots and Abominations of the Earth. And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery for T the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are SEVEN MOUNTAINS, on which the woman sitteth..." Bethel, is one of the disciples of the beast, whose public face is the Roman Catholic Church. But I do not write this to convince them of who they are. But I write this to warn you, God's children who are exploring Bethel and who, after learning about who they are, will get out. And I have hope that this includes some of the Bethel leaders who have honest hearts and really think they are doing the right thing. Please pray about this, read your scriptures and study about these things. You are loved and we are praying for you.

[@bipslone8880]

Christian Dominionism is just Theocracy and the American Evangelical version is Christo-Fascism.

[@sharpasatack]

@@bipslone8880 satanic - see Carolyn Hamlett's video

[@bipslone8880]

@@sharpasatack Read a book on critical thinking.

[@dalelowther9764]

I want to thank you Cindy for taking the time to write this... when I was a new Christian I attended a church called New Horizon where their slogan was "where Heaven meets Earth";( now this comment is not to bag on New Horizon but on there interpretation of the Bible and recent connection to Bethel and how I as a new Christian was first exposed to the seven Mountain mandate)... possibly one of the first teachings that I came into was these seven spheres of influence- somehow it just seemed a bit counterintuitive that all these things that the church or body of Christ would do during the end of time or in the seven-year tribulation would be so positive?? I referenced end times eschatology with one of the senior members of the church once where I said that Rome would rise again and he said that he didn't believe that!

[@dalelowther9764]

The point that I'm making is that I didn't know in Christendom the many varying interpretations of scripture especially those that don't believe that the King James Bible is the authoritative word of God which sadly New Horizon jump all over the place with many perverted texts that twist scriptures and steal people's faith as the King James Bible is the pure word of the Lord

[@Mojo32]

Is this the same things that are mentioned in Revelation; seven heads/seven mountains?

[@Bethel_Online]

Not that we are aware

[@shepherdstablefarm1902]

True believers have been doing this all along, we have never wanted to conquer others, we have only wanted to love and serve

[@chaserofthelight1737]

“True believers”, there’s a pastor who calls himself, a ”true believer”, “Every homosexual should be lined up against a wall and shot in the head”. These “true believers” want to make biblical based laws, who chooses what biblical laws to base these laws on? “True believers” will be seduced by this crap (call it what it is), “oh wouldn’t it be nice to have a country, a world, with laws based on biblical scripture?” “True believers” will be seduced just like Hitler seduced the “true believers” in Germany. “The national government will maintain and defend the foundations on which the power of our nation rests. It will offer strong protection to Christianity as the very basis of our collective morality. Today Christians stand at the head of our country. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit. We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in entertainment, and in the press. In short we want to burn out the poison of immorality which entered into our whole life and culture as a result of liberal excess during recent years.” You “true believers” can pretty it up all you want with “love and kindness”, it’s about power, pure unadulterated power. One of the reasons our founding fathers came here was because they weren’t able to worship as they wished in their homeland. Now you want to remake this country, the world, by selling it as in the name of God. It’s remaking the country, the world in you “true believers’s” image. People can discuss this with y’all all theoretically if they want, I’m just gonna tell you… Get over yourself, I didn’t hear a thing about God OR Jesus dying and leaving y’all in charge. As far as I see it, and I believe, y’all are the modern day Pharisees, and what I know is, Jesus came to put a stop to you once. Oh, don’t let me forget to add, I say all this in love.

[@rain3743]

Then stay out of the Government.

[@chrisqueen933]

absolutely fies in the face of Bible scripture.

[@pamelaevans5517]

Exactly Lie after lie after lie involving So-called dominionism seven mountain mandate or spheres of influence. They justify every sin there is grave soaking, false prophecies idolizing political candidates. It’s scary because people are not bereans and searching scriptures for themselves and earnestly seeking God, to bring Him glory in their own lives in to honor Him, by turning away from all that displeases Him. Our mandate is to trust and obey. Sanctification is a lifelong process but we need to be actively involved in studying the word diligently for ourselves praying. We are to become Christlike more and more. We are HIS CREATION. The basis of domionism is pride, deception, like Satan’s lie, we will become like God. There is one holy and perfect God and C Peter Wagner, Lauren Cunningham, me, you and no one else that’s ever been created is God

[@sheribell421]

We’re of course supposed to be sharing the gospel wherever the Lord has placed us. (By the gospel I means we are all sinners in need of a Savior the Lord Jesus Christ ). What I’m not clear on is are you saying we have to change the world before the Lord can come back(2nd coming)?? Like His return is up to us???

[@Mojo32]

Why don't they emphasize that the first and foremost action (and charge from Jesus Christ) is to share the Gospel being fishers of men?

[@Bethel_Online]

We are to be fishers of men in all spheres of our lives - jobs, family, education, etc. As we go out into the world, we go with a fishing pole!

[@nataliebogart1961]

your audience is not as ignorant as you may believe. Dominionism is post Calvinism which has been a specific perspective for hundreds of years. Your congregation might be down to idolize you and your paternal ways, but the rest of us see you for exactly who you are.

[@sruckel]

The dominion mandate (Genesis 1:28) has been abused by some in the context of the 7 Mountains movement, because they fail to realize that humans are not to lord over, but are to serve as stewards of God’s creation. Therefore, when we frame 7 Mountains in the context of stewardship serving, we no longer conjure up the image of conquerors, but those who serve and bless.

[@HenryLeslieGraham]

@Dean Agnor no. not quite. plz see all of church history for proof of my claims

[@LadyNolaJ]

Except that I have followed the seven mountain prophets for years and I’ve never once heard them say things quoted here. I need sources - clips, articles please? Are you doing to these, your brothers, what other Christian leaders have done and said online about you and Bill and Beni and Bethel? How is that going to help the bond of peace in the unity of the Spirit? They have the same Holy Spirit as you, they are doing what they believe they are called to, just as you are. They are able to stand before their God with their callings. And I’ve never heard what you are quoting them as saying or preaching, and then associating their responses with ludicrous religious history like women’s allowed clothing, etc, to make their stands appear more stupid? That’s ok?? That’s “humility”? Hmmmm...and so is the Rom 13 passage, (the most used scripture by Hitler to the German Christians to get them to submit), not countered by many many other Scriptures that reveal we must not obey government when they ask for compliance with evil? Every believer ever persecuted or martyred was done so by governing authorities that they would not obey. Every persecuted believer in the Bible was persecuted for NOT complying with governing authorities and all were viewed as political enemies by them. I’m very embarrassed by this conversation. We are to love our enemies, pray for them, work to win them, but to make no covenants with unbelievers. That is what “unequally yoked” means - its about partnerships and covenants and official agreements. When we bind ourselves to unbelievers, we become obliged to them. Man-pleasing THEM then takes over our hearts. If we prophesy or preach or take a stand against anything they do or believe, that is actually evil in the sight of God, we are obliged to explain or water down our disagreement, or pick only those things they might also agree with us as being wrong in order to assuage or appease them! If we hold our ground for righteousness sake, we will be persecuted, hated or, at the very least “divorced” from or sued for those yokes/relationships/binding financial agreements we have made with unbelievers like city councilmen. You two have fully embarrassed me with this. You are not above doing to your fellow Spirit-filled teachers and preachers and leaders, what has been done to you by evangelical, fundamental anti-charismatics. My spirit is grieved. My only prayer is for courage and revelation from heaven to come again. I fear you are becoming the “religious establishment” God worked so wonderfully to set you free from in the Jesus Movement.

[@muthah3013]

@Dean A. Not influence. It is about imposing your beliefs on others through cultural and political means. How sad that when American Christianity is splintering into different sects, they suddenly feel the need to impose their kind of Christianity on the rest of us. Once they get in control of the USA, they would begin banning other religions, atheism, and yes, one by one, other denominations. How long would they tolerate the Catholics, the Lutherans, the Orthodox Christians, the Episcopalians, the Methodists and any other group over whom they have dominion.

[@muthah3013]

@Dean A. You admit all of my points by your opening statement, "the myth of neutrality." There is no neutrality in your faith because there are no gray areas. It is right if it is your beliefs and it is wrong if it is not your belief. It is offensive when "Christians" proselytize as it is arrogance and infers a false supremacy over other beliefs. It becomes forced beliefs when you litigate or mandate your beliefs of others. It is reminiscent of the Inquisition and the misguided missionaries and the Salem witch trials. If it is not of the scriptures set out plainly without edited meaning through biased interpretations, it is not of God.

[@muthah3013]

@Dean A. I do not buy into group righteousness. When religions have complete power they demand unconditional obedience and adherence to their beliefs. Why impose your beliefs on others. When those of other beliefs criticize Christianity, Christians feel threatened and claim others are not tolerant. History shows that Christians are intolerant. There can never be true peace without tolerance. Which group or sect of Christianity is most righteous and therefore, should be given the responsibility for dominion over the rest?

[@Joshualovespeople]

Seven mountain mandate isn’t anywhere in scripture. Gotta get back to that

[@wendellst2266]

Exactly!!!!!

[@dagman85]

I seem to remember Jesus telling us to make disciples of all nations somewhere... It was almost a commission of sorts, and it was pretty great.

[@Inharmonics]

@@dagman85 Haha, yes. I guess people want the exact words, "seven mountain mandate" - as if we're only allowed to ever use the exact words of the Bible in all our discussions and in how we frame things! People can say things that are plainly *in essence* Scriptural, or experience things that don't contradict Scripture's record in any way, but people will *still* say - "where's that in the Bible?" to discredit it.

[@dagman85]

@John Higginbotham - who's talking about "taking over"? Last I checked, most nation-states today are made up of people groups. So if we disciple the people groups, the nation states get discipled as a part of that. There isn't really a need to make some sort of special distinction between the two concepts.

[@VictoriousChurch777]

Glory to God!! Hallelujah Father Son Holy Ghost. Come, thy Kingdom, now! The Kings lay down their crowns. Over and over again. Hallelujah amen! Around the throne, holy! Holy! Holy! God is Holy! This is great. Good word. Who is good? God the Father is good.

[@GeoCalifornian]

9:30 If Chris Valloton can conquer himself-and if Bethel taught that as a First Principle-it would certainly distract him from the ego-centrism of taking on the principalities of high mountains of culture that he advocates. /Lonewolf Liberties

[@RuchamaGrace]

Why would you call it the seven mountains when the bible associates the seven mountains with the false religion in the end times. The wonan riding the beast is the symbol of false religion. It's Babylon, where the false religions that we still see today started. Other bible verses about the woman/the whore say so. This is what Revelation 17 says about the woman who rides the beast and the seven mountains: 17 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and talked with me, saying [a]to me, “Come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters, 2 with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication.” 3 So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4 The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the filthiness of her fornication. 5 And on her forehead a name was written: MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6 I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. And when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement. The Meaning of the Woman and the Beast 7 But the angel said to me, “Why did you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns. 8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. 9 “Here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. 10 There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time. 11 The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition. 12 “The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast. 13 These are of one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast. 14 These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful.” 15 Then he said to me, “The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues. 16 And the ten horns which you saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17 For God has put it into their hearts to fulfill His purpose, to be of one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled. 18 And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth.” Them telling about the seven mountains is a sign that they are false teachers. Run from these people so that you will not perish with them.

[@sruckel]

Did you listen to the whole video? Ascribing evil to this is a bit like Pharisees accusing Jesus using the power of Satan to cast our evil spirits. Is the cross a symbol of torture or a symbol of redemption? Are the 7 mountains an image of cultural spheres or 7 kings? Is a donkey the symbol of the Democratic Party or the image of a farm animal?

[@alisamoir5166]

I read this same passage only a few days ago and that verse about the 7 mountains jumped out at me for the first time and made me think of the “7 Mountain Mandate”. Your the first person I’ve heard mention the connection. There may be others who have too, but your the first I’ve come across and it stood out to me because I literally had that connection myself only a couple of days ago.

[@HenryLeslieGraham]

@@sruckel no, 1 becuz exegetically unsound. 2. ahistorical. 3. its such a spurious theology almost to the point of being a parody. 4. not heard of before the 20th century. 5. it is in-congruent with the rest of the NT.

[@simonallchin7436]

Of course we are called to be the salt and light of the earth , and to be an influence for good around us , whatever our position in life . It is also true that there is a very negative and almost fatalistic mindset in some Evanglical circles today , who concentrate so much on the future that they forget the present !. I think that each born again Christian , whever he or she is , must live out his call in his everyday life . We must remain faithful to Christ and witness for him both in our hearts and in our actions . This is always a practical challenge for every Christian , but we don't need a ' 7 mountain theology' or ' new revelation ' to tell us this : It is written and taught all through the Bible , and has always been important for Bible believing Christians over the centuries .

[@robinmezger2579]

Ya'll talk about choices, but you really want to control everything.

[@ahdhwjdue8362]

It's always been about that, they've killed 50 million in the dark ages alone, plus torture One thing that's done as well is before they conquer an area they spread Christianity there Japan found this out and resisted successfully. They also built churches on pagan holy land too.

[@ClaraJohari]

If more ppl are on fire. For God. If those ppl become evangelist. Aren’t they technically setting others on fire? Isn’t clapping compared to making fire? What happens when we worship. How will the world be destroyed the second time? By fire right?

[@laurac56]

Question: Are American Christian churches leaning more Postmillennial vs Premillennialism nowadays? This Seven Mountains” idea sounds Postmillennial to me.

[@rivkag4669]

Both are in error. Historic amillenial is Biblical.

[@laurac56]

@@rivkag4669 I agree

[@jenniferireland3597]

Help people understand who they are; who God created them to be and heal from disease/wounds of their past. People need to know how they are gifted and what their talents are. Discipleship in love We really need to learn how to love ourselves and others.

[@tony.kmullinsstudio818]

It's interesting to me that they speak of the parable of the kingdom being like a woman that placed leaven into three measures of meal, and how the leaven "blesses" the whole dough. This is not doctrinally or biblically correct. The Holy Spirit is expositionally consistent, and uses the same idioms to describe the same concepts all the time. This parable is an illustration of the apostate church. Leaven is NEVER used to illustrate anything but SIN in Scripture. That is because sin corrupts by "puffing up." That is what leaven does. It puffs up dough. "A little leaven leavens the whole lump." That isn't an illustration of a blessing. That's an illustration of an infection of sin, because just a little sin corrupts a person. GOD HATES SIN. He hates it so much that He died to set us free from it. For these guys to use leaven as an illustration of something good is quite telling. I understand what these folks are trying to do, but the doctrine is not biblical at all.

[@selahrichardson]

I wish you put down the time stamp for this. 😆

[@rain3743]

Yep. The rot comes from the head, and rolls downhill.

[@VictoriousChurch777]

Come Holy Spirit. Have your way today!

[@rpiepho365]

Truth. I truly believe the Christians as they were being martyred prayed for the rulers in WISDOM and love. Period.

[@tomanderson7492]

It was also called 7 Pillars. I don't know If Mr. Bright or Mr. Cunningham used the term pillars and then the other used the term mountains. I remembered that because I heard Loren Cunningham teach on the talk about the 7 spheres at a small gathering, in 1982, in Garden Valley TX.

[@mikedavis1069]

Good point Tom. There is no new truth, just the old truth repackaged for a new generation.

[@barbs1298]

@@mikedavis1069 Why does one need to repackage God's truth to "sell" it to anyone? That is where deception comes in. Preach the gospel period. It is foolishness to those who are perishing. And yes, Jesus himself told us the world would be getting darker & darker & men would be lovers of themselves among other ungodly things. These 2 men preach a different gospel. And no one is withdrawing from culture. We are not called to make America a "Christian" nation or culture or force our morality on anyone through trying to pass laws & influence gov't to force Christianity upon it. Regardless of what laws are passed, if a man's heart is not changed by God, no law will keep them from doing evil. Having said all of that, Christians are called to love, share the gospel & be salt & light in the world, not try to "influence" anything to make things better for Christians. If you are truly living for Christ, the world will not like it.

[@playinglifeoneasy9226]

Like the 3 pillars of Islam? ☪️

[@mikedavis1069]

This talk is simply: How to apply the leaven of the Kingdom 101

[@kearl3490]

This talk is simply unbiblical. It's Cults 101. There's another religion that speaks in strange tongues, has hysterical laughing, shaking, being slain in the Spirit, etc. it's the Hindu religion. It's why Christ told us in Matthew 7:15,16 to look out for false prophets and that we will know His followers by their *fruits* NOT the *easily counterfeit gifts. The fruit of the Spirit is found in Galatians 5:22,23. Look it up. 😇

[@mikedavis1069]

@@kearl3490 Then why do you spend what precious time you have left on the earth following such things?

[@kearl3490]

@@mikedavis1069 Because, dear one, Christ is compassionate and slow to anger, He is patient and merciful and He seeks to save those who have been fooled by seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. It is important to God, 26 of the 27 New Testament books warn us of false doctrine, prophets and teachers. The last days are *not characterized* by a great harvest of souls but by a multiplicity of false prophets and a falling away. "Now the Spirit says *expressly*, that in latter times some shall depart from the faith,* *giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils* ;" 1 Timothy 4:1

[@kearl3490]

@Dean Agnor I will only refer you to what I said in my first comment. Christ told us in Matthew 7:16, 'We will know them by their fruits.' The fruit of the Spirit is found in Galatians 5:22,23. Satan *easily counterfeits* the gifts, as seen in the Hindu manifestations, Satan can *never* counterfeit love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, etc. "Discernment is *not discerning what is right or wrong* it’s discerning what’s right and *almost* right." Charles Spurgeon "And no wonder, *for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light* It is not surprising, then, if *his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness* . Their end will correspond to their actions.…" 2 Corinthians 11:15

[@ChinoV]

@@kearl3490Thank you for speaking truth to these lost souls. These Bethel members need to look into the kundalini spirit, and go see were a lot of their shake and bake hysterical laughter comes from. It’s not of the Holy Spirit, but the Kundalini spirit that comes from Shakti, Shakras & the serpent. The Bethel church members need to look into the Toronto blessing conference and see how that leaven corrupted these churches.

[@paullaymon5746]

I agree with C. Peter Wagner’s description of dominion theology - these guys seem to be expressing “wokeness”.

[@jenniferireland3597]

Love

[@Demonoicgamer666]

Jesus’s perspective on public faith was your faith is your own, yes he said to preach but he also said to turn the other cheek. If Jesus exists then he supports the idea that the culture is not yours to shape you have your faith and they have theirs.

[@smokeodorelimination8016]

Clean up the problems in your church, be transparent all the way. And preach justice and not pacifism.

[@CC-jd4if]

Hmmmm. This sounds sort of like Abraham Kuyper sphere sovereignty.......

[@essala1431]

What happened to the comments by LadyNola? Are you guys deleting comments you don’t like now and only approving those among your yes-men crowd? Wow. Guess she hit a nerve because she used no profanity and clearly explained her concerns. She broke none of your community standards that I could see. Cancel culture at Bethel too? Thought I heard “open-mindedness” being supported during this conversation.

[@fergiefergie5759]

Repent repent repent!!Because they are heretical teachers. If they were legitimate Christians they would be standing at emergency wards healing the covid patients practicing what they have been preaching for last 20 years + about end time revival. Instead they are cowering in their home counting the money they swindled off of mindless people. They are frauds and I praise God he removed me from this apostate teachings. Repent repent repent!!!

[@davidsidneyhodges2969]

“And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.”--2 Corinthians 10:6. Of course things will be horrific before Jesus returns. But we need not expect Him to return until we decide to start obeying Him.

[@chaserofthelight1737]

I didn’t see anything in the Bible about Jesus saying, “now, you all have to start obeying before I come back”. From what I saw he knew there were going to be the disobedient, hence the rapture, taking believers, and leaving the none believers.

[@davidsidneyhodges2969]

@@chaserofthelight1737 "After two days will He revive us. In the third day He will raise us up, and we shall live in His sight." --Hosea 6:2. This leads me to believe that Hosea will be resurrected in the Millennium, the third day.

[@barbs1298]

@@chaserofthelight1737 Exactly. Jesus does not need our obedience to ultimately fulfill God's sovereign will & foretold prophecy about the end of the world. We as humans will never all be obedient at once & then bing, Jesus returns. Utter foolishness.

[@rivkag4669]

u speak non biblical bullshit

[@rivkag4669]

@@chaserofthelight1737 Taken means to kill, God kills the tares and leaves the wheat. Luke 17. Jesus gets this bride AFTER tribulation Matthew 24; 29-31

[@wilson3668]

Dann Farrelly can you invite Rich Schmidt talk about His perspective about eschatology next episode? His teaching about eschatology is mind blowing.

[@MS-lk2sk]

I doubt that if its anything like Chris V ideas

[@PepeLeFunk]

Could you guys be characterized as “postmillennial”? This is not a criticism nor am I being facetious. This sounds very postmil, and it would be interesting for you to address.

[@alisamoir5166]

I’m interested to know this too.

[@PepeLeFunk]

@Dean Agnor I understand. But this is the second video where I’ve heard Valloton speak about eschatology and / or dominionism, where it’s honestly almost impossible not to conclude a postmillenial, or at least very optimistic amillennial, view. Which is surprising to me. So I’d love for them to actually address, or more clearly think through, the implications of some of their views.

[@PepeLeFunk]

@Dean Agnor Very clear and concise response. You’ve clearly thought a lot about this. Thank you! God bless.

[@mikedavis1069]

The whole concept of a Millennial Reign is based on one passage at the end of the Book of Revelation, a passage that is extremely difficult to translate. Much of what the OT Prophets foretold, the knowledge of the Glory of the Lord shall cover the earth as the water covers the sea, for example, are things so wonderful that many cannot believe it is for this present time and pushes those promises off into a period of time for which we have no responsibility, the Millennial Reign. The Millennium has become the catch all period for the things the Church doesn't have the faith for. We build weird theologies for what we don't understand. There is no concrete proof for the Millennium. Its existence is not necessary to support anything else the Bible teaches. I suspect that is at least in part why you don't here it taught at Bethel.

[@Inharmonics]

@Dean Agnor Thank you for sharing that, Dean. From a young age I've been deeply interested in questions about God, and then later became obsessed with theology, Biblical studies, church history, Christian thought and cultural tendencies from past to present - and all related areas. I think what you described is a reason why Bethel irks people so much. Bethel seems so "wrong" to so many Christians, but maybe that's because what we're often used to is actually so wrong? Either way, Bethel were a breath of fresh air to me, and seem to at least be a wonderful corrective to a pessimistic church that in all kinds of ways has explained away a lack of any present-tense happenings of God's Spirit. Even *if* they are "too optimistic" in regards to this present age, their existence is such a blessing and a necessary emphasis. I would rather "err" in their direction than in the mainstream directions I have been exposed to down the years!

[@robertwashkow2336]

Bethel repackaging the same old lies 1 Latter day movement 2. New apostolic reformation 3. Seven mountain mandate 4. Christian nationalisms 5. What’s next

[@rivkag4669]

What's next is Christian Nationalism as the false light of the BEAST (Papacy) as the new world religion. Sunday laws incoming, worship of Lucifer incoming.

[@carolwilliams5337]

Toward the end they start talking about Christian service, thats fine but very different from dominion theology

[@Ch4929-s9s]

Dominion Theology was completely ignored. Please explain your end time beliefs, which were missed in this video.

[@Iffmeister]

They're postmil, Vallotton endorses "Victorious Eschatology". They believe the church will be victorious and the world will be Christianized

[@0000dougy]

This is really helpful. Such a smart way to spell everything out for all of us to clearly see.

[@LadyNolaJ]

Unless you find grave, reasonable concerns with things said in this conversation and you post them in a comment. In that case, they get deleted, like mine did today - my response was void of anything insulting and fully aligned with “community standards”. I’m so sad and disappointed in “used-to-be” two of my fav Bethel teachers. Feels like the Spirit of God grieving in my “inner man.”

[@kearl3490]

This is really helpful if you want to learn a religion that has *nothing* to do with the Word of God. This cult's leaders *never* open their Bibles, they don't know the difference between the fruits and the gifts and believe the easily counterfeit gifts are more important than the fruits. Matthew 7:15,16 Galatians 5:22,23, READ YOUR BIBLE!

[@ab7482c]

@@kearl3490 Prov 4:17

[@RubenBinyet]

Thank you for taking the time to clarify your views on those issues. You have a real worldwide influence and this is precious.

[@bipslone8880]

Christian Dominionism is just Theocracy and the American version is Christo-Fascism.

[@RubenBinyet]

@@bipslone8880 is that what you got from the video?

[@bipslone8880]

@@RubenBinyet Of course it is. How is this not Theocracy? The Republican Party is Christian ISIS, they have their guns and their Bible.... they are ready to force people to live under Christian rule. America is still free but the Christo-Fascists are doing everything to take away your freedom from religion. Force Christianity and Nationalism into the schools.

[@auntieanna]

Fascism is, as far as I understand, a dictatorship controlling economics and culture, etc. Is this correct?

[@chaserofthelight1737]

@@RubenBinyetto put it plainly, y’all trying to make selling a sack of de poop sound reasonable.

[@Straightfromshibuya]

Our nationalistic culture has blinded us from truly bringing the kingdom of heaven on earth. God isn’t a republican or democrat.

[@Hasshodo]

"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things." Religion and belief in God is childish. It's time to put it away and focus on more important things - like a society without bias, culture without competition, nations without exploitation, and politics without fear. Heaven is not beyond the realm of the living, it was always meant to exist on earth. Stop killing it

[@jarvisnelson4701]

Ezekiel 23:5-10

[@bryantichota1207]

I made it ten minutes in and had to stop. I do not believe that dominion theology is biblical. If it was Jesus would have set the statue and taught his disciples.

[@stevepierce6467]

I also noticed the low level of knowledge and awareness involved; put the sewage drains downriver from the cities to avoid polluting the cities' drinking water. But of course no one else lives downriver!

[@monicacuellar6665]

I love Dan's face when Kris says - hang on, let me say one more thing before you comment - as a BSSM alumni, I totally get why he had to say that! :P Love this conversation and the dynamics being discussed at this table. Thank you both for this!

[@jeremycollins9258]

7MD is wrong. It's a distortion of biblical postmil, but it turns postmil on its head.

[@rivkag4669]

Postmil is not Biblical, nor is premil. We are in the spiritual millenium, Satan was bound at the cross. What remains is these Beth HELL dudes and others like them to give their Nationalism power to the BEAST of Rome, which will become the theocracy false light to give Satan worship. The bride is collected after tribulation like Jesus says.

[@mikedavis1069]

The "getting snatched out of here" eschatology has not worked in our lifetime, maybe the "stay here and actually do something" approach is worth a try.

[@Joshualovespeople]

It’s just not about what we feel is right. God will come back again, humans cannot fix it

[@matthewcraig8926]

Amen

[@jeremycollins9258]

Yes, but it will be Reformed postmillennialism, not anything from Bethel.

[@jeff4rofreefight141]

Or maybe you could read your bible and stop being spoon fed the trash these heretics are pushing….

[@arkuipers530]

Take down that principality - the prince of Persia - so people have a free will? People have had a free will all from the beginning, even while the snake was still in the garden they could choose. Why all these man-made theologies in stead of sticking with the Word?

[@dagman85]

And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience- among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. Ephesians 2:1‭-‬3 ESV

[@arkuipers530]

That’s why we should die to the flesh, not kill the prince of Persia..

[@dagman85]

@@arkuipers530 - that's easy to say for believers, but it doesn't give relief to the unbelievers who are in the nation or locale that is under the influence of whatever principality. And "take down" and "kill" are two very different things. Taking down in this context implies unseating or dethroning, not necessarily killing.

[@TheLantyJarvis]

I’m a little confused on how Bethel thinks about the whole political thing. There is a big difference between Republicans and Democrats, especially now days. They have completely different value systems. I’m not sure a how spirit filled believers could call themselves Democrats and support a political party who supports abortion, who is anti Israel and a million other things that are opposite of what the Bible teaches. There’s a huge difference between the two parties. Not as simple as just different names.

[@Oldmanfnaf]

You can be a Christian Democrat, not support everything, and you can critque Israel without being anti-Israel.

[@scythermantis]

The oldest continuous Christian communities in the world are Palestinian Christians (20% of Palestinians are Christians!) and they are currently oppressed by the Zionist occupation government. The modern Apartheid State of Israel shouldn't be supported by anyone moral.

[@doriotclaine]

It would be really great if you guys were able to offer this in audio form/ podcast form. I really love these talks, and wanna keep listening on my phone without having to keep KZbin open 🙏🤩👌🤣🙌🤷‍♂️

[@ianutube22]

This is the second video I see with 22 thumbs down...

[@mikedavis1069]

The thumbs down is a tally of the sacred cows that have been kicked over.

[@ianutube22]

@@mikedavis1069 lol

[@TWILS02119]

***Cough***Jan6

[@LadyNolaJ]

Not about “Christianity” invading the “seven mountains”, its about JESUS filling hearts of all people willing to say yes and repent and get delivered from their “religious-Christianity”-friendly demons. When the church does what they were supposed to be equipped to do from the platform, America will be transformed. I’ve not heard ONE believing proponent of what you are arguing, say or preach what you two are saying they’ve said. Maybe you could include clips or articles containing the phrases you used? Help me out here.

[@lr1698]

By force and violence. Has always been the ways of the patriarchy. Colonizer’s believed and were the real devils. It’s all tribalism. Humans are tribal. One thing for sure is that none of us are immortal. Best thing I’ve ever done was leave Christianity. I’m team Bertrand Russell.

[@revivalmelbourne513]

Be a bit more specific

[@VictoriousChurch777]

because this is true, the demons are broadcasting so loudly in the comments. They have many willing gates and they are here and they are perverse.

[@ianutube22]

You guys have no idea what you are saying and the deep significance it has. You have opened my eyes to things I couldn't see before. Thank you so much! Guess what I'm going to do? Pray and seek God more! Amen!!!

[@jeff4rofreefight141]

Still trying to rediscover, reinvent, reinterpret, the word of God… “ there is nothing new under the sun” But apparently for some, His word in its context, isn’t enough! And so they blow around like chaff with the false winds of doctrine!

[@jesuschristsavesfromhell4401]

FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD, THAT HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD JESUS CHRIST, WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM SHALL NOT PERISH, BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE IN HEAVEN FOREVER AND EVER. John 3:16 Bible..... THE RAINBOW THRONE OF SON OF GOD JESUS CHRIST AND THE TREE OF LIFE, Revelations 4 and Revelations 22 Bible. And whoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. Revelations 20 bible

[@wendellst2266]

Let’s put theology aside for a moment brothers, do you think it is pleasing to our Lord for you both to snicker self righteously at all your brethren who today ….as through many years gone by, do hold to the position that there is an ESCAPE, a rapture of the church, that will take place as God’s enemy is more plainly revealed in a world system that IS evil? You do your Lord or your brethren, no service!

[@Cynthiabecker24]

Amen

[@jeremycollins9258]

What is pleasing to God? Your answer is doing theology.

[@honestnewsnet]

This is so stupid.

[@fishndad4355]

This pastor is incorrect when he makes the claim that there was a tree of knowledge and a tree of life in the garden of eden. The tree of life is a kabbalah teaching and not biblical the way they talk about it.

[@rivkag4669]

cuz they are Kabaalists priming the new world religion of Christian nationalism

[@LadyNolaJ]

I put this in a reply but meant it to be a comment, so here goes! Except that I have followed the seven mountain prophets for years and I’ve never once heard them say things quoted here. Like I said before, I need sources - clips, articles please? Are you doing to these, your brothers, what other Christian leaders have done and said online about you and Bill and Beni, and Bethel Church? How is that going to help the bond of peace in the unity of the Spirit? They have the same Holy Spirit as you, they are doing what they believe they are called to, just as you are. They are able to stand before their God with their callings. And I’ve never heard what you are quoting them as saying or preaching, and then associating their proposals with ludicrous religious history (like women’s allowed clothing, etc.) to make their stands appear more ridiculous? That’s ok?? That’s “humility”? Hmmmm...and so, friends, is the Rom 13 passage, (the most used scripture by Hitler to the German Christians to get them to submit), not countered by many many other Scriptures that reveal we must not obey government when they ask for compliance with evil? Every believer ever persecuted or martyred was done so by their governing authorities for not obeying. Every persecuted believer in the Bible was persecuted for NOT complying with governing authorities and all were viewed as political enemies by them. I’m very embarrassed by this conversation. We are to love our enemies, pray for them, work to win them, but to make no covenants with unbelievers. That is what “unequally yoked” means - its about partnerships and covenants and official agreements. When we bind ourselves to unbelievers, we become obliged to them. Man-pleasing THEM then takes over our hearts. If we prophesy or preach or take a stand against anything they do or believe, things that are actually evil in the sight of God, we are then obliged to explain or water-down or back-step our disagreement, or pick only those things they might also agree with us as being wrong in order to assuage or appease them! (Like children deciding to disfigure their bodies). If we hold our ground for righteousness sake on the original wrong and all the immoral issues that have become mandated by laws or regulations, we will be persecuted, hated or, at the very least “divorced” from or sued for those yokes/relationships/binding financial agreements we have made with unbelievers (like city councilmen). You two have fully embarrassed me with this. You are not above doing to your fellow Spirit-filled teachers and preachers and leaders, what has been done to you by evangelical, fundamental anti-charismatics for years. My spirit is grieved. My only prayer is for courage and revelation from heaven to come again. I fear you are becoming the “religious establishment” God worked so wonderfully to set you free from in the Jesus Movement.

[@sunithagirish2139]

Great stuff! Intelligent believers with child- like faith👍👍👍

[@bipslone8880]

You have to be a child to fall for this con job. Faith is just believing what you want, despite the lack of evidence. Christian Dominionism is just Theocracy and the American version is Christo-Fascism.

[@VictoriousChurch777]

If they weren’t doing anything near the target the religious demons and control demons wouldn’t be so stirred up. But when the enemy knows the time is short in a soul or an area, they get more and more wild. Revelations 9:11 it’s coming, it’s here. We are about there. But blessed are the peacemakers for they will be called true Sons of God. Matt 5:9. Who are the Sons of God? See Romans 8:14. Those led by Holy Ghost. Who is the King of Glory looking to come through? He wants to know, be relationship with me and you, wake up! You sleepy gates, wake up! So the King of Glory can come through!! Psalm 24. Many of the people quoting scripture don’t even read their Bible through once a year with Holy Spirit. A true believer reads through the entire Bible as many times as possible in a year, five, maybe 6 times, maybe even more. If these gates of hell did pour over the Holy Word like that they would silence their mouths (gates) and be about the Father’s business. It is like John 3:19-21. They know John 3:16 but they don’t know the Word, and the Word doesn’t know them. The word is Jesus Christ. These gates of hell are just like the Pharisees who came out to see John baptize. And John the greatest Old Testament prophet called them out. That’s right, Old Testament, Jesus himself said so. The religious would’ve been like “baptize everyone.” John was like, “nah, these guys’ their hearts aren’t right, I’ve know them all my life and I know their heart now.” The Father knows the heart and He reveals these matters of the heart to His prophets. It’s not enough to read the word, do you let the word read you? Don’t be like the hypocrites, those actors, those whitewashed tombs. The King of Glory is at the gate, knocking, you are the gate, He wants to come in and through you! Let Him in, over and over again, be purified by the blood, be set free, be made knew. It’s the only thing, the one thing, the good thing for you. This life is about the soul and God’s creation being redeemed for the Sons of man. Whose side are you on? It’s not God vs the devil. It’s us, sons of man, vs the devil and the battle for authority is over creation. Get right with God, gets your soul restored. A soul retired can redeem the family around him, and can then redeem the land for man. Hallelujah Holy Holy Holy Praise God. Jesus is King. Of everything. Even this. He took down Rome for the Kingdom of Glory. He will rule all the land, with His Bride at His right hand. The true church is the bride. Who are you? In the body of Christ or against Him. Talk and act like it then. Be about your Father’s business. Kingdom, come.

[@tboned1]

2 fine false teachers with terrible hermeneutics

[@jcs56]

I'm all for this if you can prove Jesus is God. Otherwise, coexist and stop trying to push your culture on the rest of the Americans that think you are wrong.

[@ronaldfrink3925]

2:16

[@bethelshiloh]

I got same vision about 14 or 15 years ago. But it was not dominionism. It was that believers should be influencers in these areas.

[@mushroomocean5177]

Children are not getting gender reassignment surgeries. They are offered puberty blockers and, later when they’re 15-16 they can choose to start hormone therapy, which many do. This is all done with the supervision of doctors, therapists, and psychiatrists, but if it’s made illegal than no professionals will be able to offer these kids help. Would it be fair to deny a 15 y/o girl breast reduction surgery if her chest was putting her in great destress?

[@BrandonGarcia-uk3si]

Sounds like Jeff Durbin trying to defend post millennialism 🤣

[@Morrisondudeanddudette]

Very powerful thanks

[@theoisaac9948]

👍

[@kythik]

Prophetic dreams? Okay then.

[@lucym5698]

Really enjoying these topics. Great clarity

[@MyLifeShortFilms]

These two are all over the place. So inconsistent. USE DISCERNMENT. Oh my.

[@lr1698]

Pure evil

[@godschild7643]

False teaching. Period.

[@scrapingrama1]

Seeding yourselves. Kinda arrogant ya think!!

[@bryonrushing6180]

Sounds good but you’re FALSE TO THE CORE

[@GussyG1]

This is the thinking and ideology that delivered the world the Taliban and the Iranian theocracy. This is just Christianity’s version of extremism and just as misguided.