Shadow and Bone Review: Racial Integration Done Right

[@bernadettebanner]

This was SUCH a great conversation. It's always a delight to see your beautiful faces and, more importantly, hear your beautiful words. ✨

[@elfieblue3175]

And KZbin's captions had a field day with "neurodivergent" and "Shadow & Bone"... and so many other fun malapropisms!

[@carlaviz6605]

Alina's casting is great because it really deepens her character, I was surprised to find out that she wasn't explicitly part Shu in the books since it makes so much sense for her feeling like an outcast, and how she and Mal bonded in the orphanage because they had that in common.

[@HB-zx4xy]

her character also grew up in an area very close to the border of shu han so it makes even more sense!

[@whitalleys5893]

Maybe it’s the nerd in me, but I am really loving these panels the costubers are holding on various social issues around fashion, dress, inclusion, and diversity.

[@SharonLinfromTaiwan]

You're not alone! I LOVE these moments. Being nerdy is so much fun! And makes one think deeper of many things too. ❤️

[@whitalleys5893]

@@SharonLinfromTaiwan awww thank you Sharon. So glad this community is here.

[@gladdy2104]

😂😂😂... Maybe I'm I nerd too.. 💞... You are definitely not alone... 💞

[@glumibear]

The race of a character doesn’t matter unless it’s relevant to the story, and Alina wasn’t casted as Asian just to be casted as Asian for diversity points, along with the other casting in the show

[@fatsparrowsewing]

I loved that S&B was so heavily Eastern European inspired instead of the familiar Western European, and that meant that the near-by nations we're many Asian ones. The aesthetics were rich and not overly familiar. I also loved that finally we're getting Asian leads, here in the West it's clear that Asian people are chronically underrepresented. I binged the show in three days!

[@IngeborgEngh]

Totally agree! So nice to have the cultural centre in a place that is close to Asia, not just western Europe.

[@adapienkowska2605]

It is not. The show uses some aesthetics (on a very, very surface level), but the book uses almost nothing. It is obvious Bardugo haven't done any research on Russia. It is full of Russian stereotypes. I know of Russian who were offended by the show and books.

[@fatsparrowsewing]

@@adapienkowska2605 that's interesting, and a shame. We don't get a lot of Russian influenced modern literature or film in the West, so it's a pity that this isn't a better representation.

[@IngeborgEngh]

@@adapienkowska2605 I don't think that Eastern European = Russian. Maybe the aesthetics fit better with other Eastern European countries than Russia? (Strange to be offended by the books if the books uses almost nothing of the Eastern European aesthetics)

[@adapienkowska2605]

​@@IngeborgEngh They don't. These inspirations don't have anything to do with other EE countries. They are Russian stereotypes mostly centred around the Imperial Russia. Just like other ethnicities are offended by the wrong use of their culture, Russian can also be offended. But it goes beyond that. For example, the country name Ravka is very similar to a derogatory name for Russia - Rashka. The choice to not make names make sense in Russian is a very, very 'Emily in Paris' - 'your language is really f**k up' - choice. Especially bc names are extremely important to Russians - they had their 'name day' instead of 'birthday' (now it is more inconsistent and people may celebrate both - name day and birthday or only birthday). Also, Russia is hardly 'white country'. It is a very diverse place. There are many ethnicities encompassed under 'Russian' identity. Turks, Tatars, Armenians, Yakuts, etc. It is a pity they haven't shown it in the show. I think if she treated like that a culture a little more to the East, she would be (rightly so) accused of cultural appropriation. Here is a video of a historian: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pmfYlGeeZ7aSmtE

[@tamaravsthevoid]

Trigger warning; discussion of racism I loved this series so much, but when I was visiting my parents and recommended it to them I heard such vial vitriol from my father it shocked me. His argument was similar to a lot of what you ladies said; people will suspend disbelief for wizards and dragons, but a female hero of Asian decent was just too much for him. He said he was so sick of seeing the white male as the villain constantly, and when I pointed out that people of other ethnicities have been putting up with that forever, he actually got so aggressive I left and havent spoken to him since. My mother is indigenous Australian, and I’ve always felt connected to my indigenous heritage, and it hurt so much to hear that sort of thing from him. It was a series I didn’t realise I was missing until I saw it, and it felt special and precious and he tainted it for me.

[@Sewstine]

I’m so sorry - I just want to give you a big hug. When parents that we look up to say things like this, it’s just the worst because it puts us in a spot we shouldn’t be in. I’m so sorry you’re going through that and I want to commend you for saying the facts: POC have lived as villains for the majority of movie history. Many hugs to you and safe hopes.

[@tamaravsthevoid]

@@Sewstine Thank you so much, and thank you for your channel! Its wonderful to feel like there is a safe space to being able to discuss things like this, and you’ve created it. I’m so excited to see all the Grisha cosplay and I am planning on making one myself soon too 🥰

[@KattGothica]

Big hug!!!! Without getting into my past just wanted to say, I understand what that is like and wish you lots of love and support.

[@stevezytveld6585]

The level of vitriol is always a shock. I'm so sorry you have to go through this too. It's never easy when parents fall short. - Cathy (&, accidently, Steve), Ottawa/Bytown

[@ninaschust3694]

Accountability feels like an attack when you don't realize the damage that those actions have on other people.

[@sarahthomas7692]

I will be honest; I tried reading Shadow and Bone when it came out, gave up, picked up Six of Crows many years later not remembering it was by the same author, adored it, tried Shadow and Bone again with pre-built interest in the universe, and STILL couldn't finish it. Entirely based on the fact that the protagonist was, forgive me, a wet rag. So I tuned into the show solely for the Crows, assuming I'd be bored silly during the Alina scenes. And bam; as soon as she was introduced as half-Shu, giving texture and nuance to her sense of alienation, I was invested in her story. Sometimes I even wanted them to finish up a Crow scene so I could get back to what was happening to her! This show was great.

[@kianasch]

MY FEELINGS EXACTLY i just got so bored with the s&b books but the inclusion of the crows as well as jessie mei li being cast as alina sold the show for me !!

[@aureliasoleil2011]

ABSOLUTELY MY EXPERIENCE. Heard S&B was a bestseller a couple years ago, and attempted to read it (I was brushing up on popular YA at the time, like folk of the air and whatnot-aspiring writer), however I couldn’t get past the first few pages. Found the writing lacklustre and Alina a wet blanket of a protagonist. Cut to this year, when the series came out, and I thought, ‘watching is easier than reading, and the story can be good even if the writing is meh’. So I gave it a try, found the crows’ storyline way more compelling, and so decided to read that duology, which I enjoyed. Plus, I got to experience more of Bardugo’s writing style, and I found it better (which makes sense, since she published it after the Grisha trilogy-maybe the king of Scars duology will prove even more growth on the writer’s part). In any case, besides the crows, the added element of being mixed race in the show gave WAY more dimension to her character, and her struggle to belong and have identity, especially as it is so integrated into the narrative (the show is definitely not pandering to the audience). I honestly think this change elevates the show above the book, in a rare instance; probably won’t read the grisha trilogy. Let this be an example for YA adaptations, and TV in general, going forward.

[@TheGPFilmMaker]

Nami's commentary on "Last Airbender" was so on point! It was the same thing that really rubbed me the wrong way about the live action Aladdin - which cast the more stereotypically Arab-looking actors as the villains!! Got to get on Netflix and watch Shadow and bone now!

[@shadowmouse03]

also huge applause for the netflix team for greatly improving mal's character from the book

[@LadyJay882]

As a black woman watching, I can’t tell you how much I enjoyed and appreciated this thoughtful and fun conversation. I could listen to you guys all day. More! Maybe episode reviews next season.

[@SnowWolf75]

I may be a neurotypical, white male, but I absolutely LOVE when a show can lean INTO diversity in the cast. The actresses and actors all did fantastic jobs in their roles (even the villains), and if I read the books later, it would be hard for me not to think of them as I see them in the show. Also, I LOVE this conversation, which hits directly on a lot of problems (ie: racism, token minority) that occurs in most shows, and in the world in general. Also, I may be inspired to make a Kefta costume for future cons. Possibly a Durast, but at least a Materalki. I've seen your IG posts about working on your designs, and it gives me inspiration.

[@toughtink]

i love the points that you made about book alina vs show alina, with the show's version having WAY more agency. honestly, i feel like the show improved all the shadow & bone characters from their book counterparts. we even got more depth and personality to some of the side characters. i really hope that continues into the next season. i want to see way more of nadia and zoya than the first trilogy gives us!! thank you all for sharing your experiences!

[@Lunareon]

Seeing you all get so excited about this series made me smile so much. We need more representation that makes people this happy! On a more serious note, I wish we lived in a world where you didn't have to make all those disclaimers about how it's the industry you're criticizing, not the actors, and that you are only talking about the aspects that you can personally relate to, instead of trying to include everything possible. I wish these things were automatically accepted and assumed in any conversation. As you said, it's not a zero sum or an all-or-nothing situation. Little progress is still progress and, little by little, we can gradually make things better for everyone in the long run. :)

[@anjalidiezman1588]

Nami is so on point with how indian/middle eastern people are represented❤

[@fifithehuntress]

Every “bad guy” on 24 😑. I couldn’t watch.

[@NamiSparrow]

❤️❤️❤️

[@tiredoftrolls2629]

Being Arab-American/MENA/SWANA, I want to see heroes and everyday people, not the Villains or Victims as representation. This sounds great.

[@tiredoftrolls2629]

@@NamiSparrow thank you for your comments!

[@carryyy_xx]

This was so interesting to watch. I read on Instagram that it was a big step for you to post a video adressing racism on your youtube channel. I'm really glad that you made this video. Your message is so strong! I like that you adress issues of the film industry but make sure to give the actors the credit they deserve. I'm up for more videos like this. :)

[@Iisa1010]

the show is just amazing and Six of Crows (plus its follow up) is my absolut favourit book me, white bi girl with ADHS and mild dyslexia reading Six of Crows: nice, finally some good stuff. love my babies. Also Kaz using a cane even when he lives in a word with "magic" healers.

[@Bygone_Wardrobes]

It really touching to hear you guys talk about this. Representation truly matters, as it gives validation to different experiences. I truly hope that Netflix and other production companies will keep on diversifiying their cast and writing their stories in a meaningful way.

[@merindymorgenson3184]

It aggravates me that people will complain about people from cultures other than what their idea of the character is cosplaying people from a fantasy series, or heck, even a non fantasy series. To me, cosplaying is like theater. It’s about bringing to life a story. It’s about willing suspension of disbelief. It’s not about having a character be from a certain culture. It’s about them bringing that character to life. It breaks my heart to hear of the discrimination that you have experienced. I’m so glad you are bringing these problems out into the open and helping people understand. I hope that one day we can look at each other and see the beauty in our differences and how our world is made more beautiful by our differences. And I hope we can also see that we are more the same than we are different and bond over our common experiences. Lots of love to you beautiful ladies.

[@ThisPettyPace5429]

This is a great discussion! Casting directors and agents sit at the heart of this issue: Unrepresented actors shop themselves around to agents, who then cherry-pick those most marketable, and then the agent's relationship with a casting director gets the actor an audition. If you want to hold people accountable for representation on screen, this is where to start.

[@sandrab5477]

This may contain spoilers --> okay I’m out but will come back once I’ve watched the show ❤️

[@catherinejustcatherine1778]

Same

[@littlesame]

One of the best racial integration conversation on YT, I’m totally on the same page how Bridgerton talked a good talk and fell so short in POC character arc and diversity, I’m so proud and thankful for Leigh and Eric taking such a bold important forward decision, now can we have season two?

[@SuperMrsMar]

I saw this show 2 days ago and my first thought when I saw the Grisha uniforms was, "I hope sewstine makes that!" You do such amazing work with embroidery, it will look amazing. Now I just need to figure out how to make one myself without an embroidery machine or embroidery skills.

[@FrancisFabricates]

That’s something I am working on! I’ll have the files all drawn up to be like cross stitch most likely over the next few weeks. I’ll be sharing stuff on my Instagram that everyone can grab for free from me. 💚

[@SuperMrsMar]

@@FrancisFabricates that's amazing, thank you!

[@phadenswandemil4345]

I'm so obsessed with this show. This past few months have been tough for me, so it's a welcomed distraction. Also the long look Arken gives Jesper before deciding they need a goat is hilarious in hindsight.

[@SharonLinfromTaiwan]

Yes yes yes!!!!Love so many points made here! As an East Asian woman, seeing such a cast and lead (Jessie Mei Li is literal sunshine) got me so emotional! ❤️❤️❤️Love this show and I will link this on my upcoming video essay on Shadow and Bone too. Also, I love the diving in about Zoya's being mean to Alina, linking it to internalized racism that BIPOC were often "taught" to do. Great panel! Thank you all four so much! ✨

[@CatsCostumery]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts! I loved the show and agree it was such an improvement on the books in so many ways. It was also really lovely to hear your connections to the show and how much it means to you ❤️ can’t wait for the keftas!

[@berkleypearl2363]

I cannot express my level of disappointment when I read the book after watching the show and learned Alina was written as white. So much nuance, struggle, personality, and even joy and love was added in the show when they pulled these real world elements of racism into the story. And truly the actress does such a good job! The book feels empty without it

[@silkew.5916]

Thanks for the heads-up. I was wondering, if I should read the source material after watching the show, but now I am really not sure that I should.

[@berkleypearl2363]

@@silkew.5916 it’s 2012 twilight era fantasy romance. It’s got it’s problems but it’s cute. The show is better imo

[@miriamjames4140]

Six of crows is the way to go!

[@turdleyurtle]

I feel that while the criticism about it being 'generically' white stands for many people -- I do get *why* this was assumed -- BUT, I also *immediately* picked up on the parallels between the Grisha/Saints and the history of pogroms against Jews in the pale of settlement/eastern europe. It's true -- Ravka is a psuedo-Russia. But well up until like, the 1950's, Jews were not considered "white people" -- certainly not by Europeans anyways. And the stories of the Saints are very much wrapped up in stories of blood libel (as in Ilya's story), and the ensuing pogroms especially in Germany/Poland/Russia. It's weird, I very much agree Book!Alina seems to read as a generic "brown hair white girl" protagonist (and I'm thrilled they didn't cast her that way), but at the same time I'm pretty surprised how many people seem to have missed the "diverse" storyline used within the DNA of the books from the beginning (by a Jewish author). That's *why* so many people identified with Alina being an outcast in the books, feeling like she didn't fit in, the constant storyline about why the Grisha are hated/feared/isolated/murdered and hunted by non-Grisha etc. When reading I guessed that the Grisha = Jews, and the Suli were Romani -- because both groups are explicitly identified as being fetishized/feared by the rest of society, having a large diaspora, being hated and killed by outsiders, etc. I will say a weakness of the original books is that this intention from the author gets pretty easily lost for many people (Bardugo explicitly says the Grisha were modeled after Jewish experiences in an Atlantic article), especially because I feel like people expect discrimination to look like what the show had, as opposed to looking for more subtle xenophobia, reading it as fantasy antisemitism and pogroms. I do think the show improved on the books in a variety of ways, I LOVE the casting, love that we'll get to explore Zoya's passing, etc.

[@faydreamsmystic4]

I love the fact more shows are trying but this this one did it right. I wish they had more like it. Now I need to go watch it. By the way, all of you are just lovely ladies with wonderful minds and hearts. Your amazing people.

[@sarahluty7083]

What I immediately noticed watching the show was how they portrayed strong female characters. Often, these characters feel unrealistic and performative, and there is usually a scene that breaks from the plot to show * feminism * (I'm looking a you Jasmine in the live action Aladin). In this series, we were shown rather than told that these female characters were strong and independent.

[@PlasticBuddha88]

I wasn’t aware of the show before and now it’s on my list. I don’t mind spoilers (I’m a weirdo). Thank you for sharing your own experiences and how they relate to how you viewed the show. Thank you for highlighting the places where they went right and where they need to do better. I look forward to watching this series.

[@Drea12910]

I absolutely loved your guy's video!!! Did anyone actually pause the video spend 8 hours binging this show and immediately come back at 1am? Because I did and thank you sooo much for introducing me to this show. I absolutely loved everything about it! My 100% favorite character has to be Jesper, and #TeamFivan Forever!!! they were sooo cute!

[@kialazyeyereader1822]

I hope that this shows my niece who is mixed Filipino and Chinese that she can indeed be the main character :)

[@KahoriFutunaka]

I admit that I had not heard of the show before but now I musk ask my brother to share his account with me. I mean, we live in the same household, so no harm done there... And thank you for sharing your experiences. I admit I was horrified because growing up I happened to have classmates with different backgrounds - and I honestly I didn't care. They were nice to me or they weren't. That was all that mattered to me back then. Maybe I wasn't always sensitive with my usual questions "Oh, were are you from? Do you speak the language? Can you teach me hello, bye, please and thank you?", but I have grown into accepting that there is a time to be excited about "different" people and most of the day it isn't.

[@blueashke]

As white autistic pansexual woman of size with ADHD, thank you for addressing the things that you identify with and then acknowledging your space where you didn't. I only understood portions of this prior to watching and I am SO glad that I came across this video.

[@palor2911]

Thank you all so much for this video. I cried while watching it. It touches me on a personal level. I love fantasy. This was the first time that I see an Asian person play likeable and badass roles.

[@dumaisis]

Just want to say that even in the books Jesper and Inej were always described with dark Zemeni/Suli skin.

[@celebkiriedhel]

This is excellent, because when a show does it well, it can work as a model for the next show to do it better.

[@AmyBrueckman]

Ahhhh I have been a Six of Crows stan ever since the book came out years ago, so it is SO AMAZING to see all the attention that this series getting. I am so happy with all the changes they made from the S&B book. :'D

[@meltyblend]

I loved the show so much and I’m so happy you have something to smile about as hard as y’all were. It’s wonderful to listen to your perspectives on it. Alina rocked so hard as a main character and I can’t wait to see where things go in the second season. (team Jesper/soft things team Inej/give her the goddamn world team Kaz/please let me give you mental hugs so I can respect your boundaries)

[@labyinthoiospotnia]

we stan a show that improves on the material being adapted. (team darkling all the waaaaaay.)

[@taylorr.s8082]

I love this series so much and have been waiting to see the cosplays. It makes me want to go back and rewatch the series 5 times. You are all amazing!

[@gideongrace1977]

I'm a writer and getting to watch conversations like this is so helpful and so important! Thank you for doing this you lovely, beautiful people!

[@agimagi2158]

Thank you so much for this discussion! Your enthusiasm about this show was so heart warming and wholesome! I'm so glad that asian people finally start to get the right representation and so many young folks can find their role models! (And extra points for Christine for going through the last airbender movie just to find some clips for us!)

[@jn3090]

Thank you to all four of you for the interestig discussion. When you first showed the picture of the cast, my reaction was "is this really special"? And then it dawned on me that I'd just never paid attention to stuff like that because at least 90% of the cast in fantasy movies are usually my race. I found it very helpful to have you guys explain what it's like for someone who never experienced that. I hope more movies / series like this will be produced.

[@JulietteReacts]

The "don't change my eyes" was so sad and beautiful. I feel like Jessie Mei Li delivered it perfectly. It broke my heart as soon as she said it. I think the changes made from the book have only enhanced the show. On the other hand, I'm glad Sewstine mentioned that making a fantasy have mixed casting and not including racism as an issue can ALSO be fun. I'm currently writing a YA fantasy book which is set in I guess the standard semi-medieval setting of many fantasy series'. However, my lead is a lesbian and I just don't want there to be homophobia in the world I'm creating. Coming out stories/tragic LGBTQ stories are a dime a dozen and while they're absolutely useful, relatable and artistic... sometimes you just want a Shadow and Bone where the Darkling is a lesbian woman and no one bats an eyelid.

[@MisSiszY]

Such a fantastic and brave conversation to have and so illuminating for people like me who have never even had to think about representation as its everywhere for me. Its heartbreaking that such a seemingly straightforward step and change is something so different. It shouldnt be. Every show should have a wide variety of cast members. My enjoyments only greater with a diverse cast. Cmon all showrunners and casting agents!!

[@c.a.2945]

I have to thank the four of you for such an interesting and informative discussion, especially as someone that delighted in the diversity on screen in S&B. As a queer and disabled and white writer myself, diversity is one of those things I feel is absolutely vital for me to get right, and I always worry about how best to approach racial diversity in my works. Seeing Shadow and Bone's diversity on so many levels, and seeing how it resonates with you all has encouraged and inspired me. I think I have a better idea of how to approach these things now and it was an absolute pleasure to listen to your voices and perspectives.

[@DarklightAmy]

All your thoughts& feelings about representation and how much it matters were so great to watch! I feel really happy you got a good show to be overjoyed over. It's really cool to have a bit of insight into that through you. Thank you all for sharing 💖

[@junglejarnies1695]

That was amazing, I feel like I’ve had a chance to explore so many of the thoughts I’ve wanted to work through with people after watching, you’re all so articulate and probing. And I enjoyed the way you dealt with knowing that “Darklina” models an abusive relationship, but acknowledged the attraction ... that whole dynamic is an entire discussion in itself.

[@Robin-rk2hf]

Thank you so much for putting your perspectives out here! I really hope this show inspires more (casting) directors and writers to create more diverse content. I'm already rewatching the show 🙈 I can't WAIT till season 2! and don't worry Christine ;) totally with you on (show) Darklina

[@alexandrajay2001]

i’m white, but the discussion in this video on colourism is really interesting. while the south asian characters are cast really well, when the show came out i saw a few people complain that Jesper in particular is darker skinned in the books than he is in the show and while i love Kit Young, who played him, i do have to agree that it was a poor casting choice. but at least Nadia, who is white in the books, is a dark skinned black woman in the show, and will have a larger role in season 2, based on the books, set photos and the trailer.

[@petradegroot3578]

I can’t wait to see where this show go’s! I hope they keep getting more actors who represent everyone. Great conversation and respectvol video ❤️👍🏼

[@andreaochoacordova9790]

I didn't know Zoya is part Suli, but now the scene in the show when she angrily corrects the woman who mistaked Inej's ethnicity takes another significance! Like, she doesn't even know her -yet-, but she defends something that is important to both of them. I actually felt that scene as a depiction of the "all asians look the same" situations and assumptions. And I can agree with all of the comments in this discussion. Growing up, sometimes I saw myself depicted as one of "the bad ones" in media, too (I am latina). I am so happy to continue seeing/reading more - correctly done - representation.

[@andreaochoacordova9790]

I wrote the comment when I was half way through the video and now I am listening to them discuss it. Rayos x

[@popcornpenguin6225]

I remember being very excited for the live action avatar and when it came out I remember I saw a poster for the movie and I immediately hated it. It just doesn’t look right at all! And I’m white. To this day I refuse to watch that movie. Just seeing clips and pictures from it makes me so angry. The producers of that show have done a huge disservice especially to people of Asian descent.

[@silkew.5916]

I wish I had followed my guts like you did. I still get angry!

[@marjoleinsmolders1630]

Same!! I will never watch that movie

[@silkew.5916]

@@marjoleinsmolders1630 A wise choice! For all those unfortunate who got the warning to late: "hello future me" has a 2,5 hour video on WHY it is the worst movie ever on his KZbin-chanel. It is very therapeutic and I highly recommend.

[@adedow1333]

Thanks for all of this! I'm a white woman who insists on not being colorblind, because there are too many beautiful things to learn about so many different cultures that can only be learned by acknowledging our differences and seeking the strength that comes with knowing more of each other. Sorry, that may sound scripted, but it's what I think. I love seeing purposeful casting choices that actually make sense. I love that I live in an extremely culturally diverse neighborhood. I love tht I had friends growing up who would call me on assumptions I had in my view of the world that didn't apply to them. Life is good. People are beautiful. Kindness is everything, even when being kind means calling out incorrect ideas.

[@EtainMcCloud]

If you're earnestly interested in treating everyone fairly you cannot be colorblind. when we stop seeing color we stop seeing an important part of people's stories. That phrase is often used to silence People of Color. I earnestly entreat you to do a little research into how PoC feel about that phrase and then remove it from your vocabulary.

[@JustWandering]

@@EtainMcCloud She said “NOT being colorblind.”

[@EtainMcCloud]

@@JustWandering I should have read more carefully

[@stevezytveld6585]

Thank you all, as always, for a nuanced and illuminating discussion. Thank you for the lessons. One of my favorite movies of the past few years is Last Knights, which imagines a pan-European-Asian world with full integration. It was one of those ringing moments of 'why haven't I seen this before'... - Cathy (&, accidently, Steve), Ottawa/Bytown

[@naorivas]

You're not the only Darklina fan, Christine!

[@FrancisFabricates]

I ship it so hard

[@ShinySarah44]

Welp, I hadn't planned on watching this, but from the sounds it's done some really great things to improve on the YA tendencies, of race, consent, and more. Thank you for making this video, and putting yourselves out there for this discussion. Also, yay for light hearted questions at the end.

[@KacielNolwen]

I am so glad this happened! I'm so happy this conversation is a thing! I am absolutely obsessed with this show and am looking for the audibooks as soon as I'm done with my current book x) I'm only a little disappointed that the characters I loved the most on the show won't be there in the first books. It was really insightful to hear you guys talk about the asian lead and other representation!

[@Stefengris]

I have no idea about either the book or the TV show, but damn, I hope that the author and contributing creators see this panel. Just so they know, how powerful what they did was.

[@TheMetatronGirl]

YAAAAAASSSSS!! I’m so darn excited for this series!! (Haven’t started it, yet, because hubby & I want to watch together) it makes me so happy to know they got it right with racial integration 🥰

[@arthurli4957]

This is a really informative and helpful discussion, I'm grateful to all of you.

[@keaka]

KZbin's algorithm recommended this video to me and 100% knows what I want to see. I have spent a good part of my life (I think I'm probably twice as old as most here) trying to provide more space for representation, so it's so nice to see a show like Shadow and Bone that gets so much right. It makes me feel like some things have indeed changed in this world - for the better!

[@realcbglacier]

I watched & loved! Shadow and Bone because of this panel. Thank you! It was phenomenal as are all of you, thank you all for your time & energy with this discussion & review. ~C

[@Ellaodi]

I think it's really awesome that the author made a point to point out diversity. The problem is typically that most authors will write with less description so that everyone can see their selves as a character, it's the other readers who want to enforce their rightness on others that are the problem. If you guys are looking for a diverse paranormal series, Black Dagger Brotherhood has mixed everything and explores racism within their own cultures and it's about loyalty and vampires. And sex. Lots of sex

[@nikanovakovic3980]

Two of my favourite things merged together yeeessss :) haha didn't expect this video but it is the best surprise :3

[@sofiap9482]

Great video. It is super impotant to have conversions like that, and I want to contribute to it. I sincerely share your excitement for Asian representation. However, I would like to make a point that Russia, from which the books and show draws a lot of inspiration, is misrepresented. I am Russian and I felt weird and cringy watching the series. Russian people are not all white, there are so many ethnicities in this country that you could have a diverse cast just with people whose origins are here. The atmosphere is made exotic through some 'russian' words and characters' names, mentioning of butter week, but that's it. So while I enjoyed the show and the diverse cast, it left me with mixed feelings about using russian culture in it. P.S. Lady Izdihar has a review of the first book in the series on her channel. It is from the perspective of historian studying eastern European countries. Highly recommend for those who are interested

[@sofiap9482]

Fun fact: about 9,5 million people in Russia are ethnical asians. That is 6.5% of population. (Data for year 2010) These nationalities lived here for centuries. It appears to me that not a lot of western media highlight that :) That is why Alina and Mal appeared the most Russian looking to me in the entire series. They reminded me people I personally know, which is funny, because they are obviously of a different decent, yet look alike.

[@joek600]

@@sofiap9482 The reality is that US studios care only for US politics and social issues. If you dont have a big lobby and a big group of professional complainers do not expect to be heard. The squicky wheel gets the grease.

[@alpuz8511]

That's the kind of comment I was looking for! Coming from South-Eastern Europe, where racism, sexism and xenophobia are pretty widespread, this show really does a ton in terms of combatting that. However, I also felt that this skewed representation of Slavic/Russian culture and the Cyrillic alphabet put me off at times. We also grew up with largely Western ideas of beauty, which we don't really fit into, even though a lot of us could be considered white. Eastern Europe is a mixed pot of ethnicities and cultures and for the first time in a while I felt the people on screen looked like someone I could meet on the street here. That, however, doesn't really excuse the peppering of the Russian language and the vague reference to Slavic culture. I wish we were seen as distinct and not a monolith, but I guess the West has had a habit of reducing everything to a bunch of stereotypes 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@joek600]

@@alpuz8511 Well said and Im not even Russian (Im Greek). I was also put off by the fake Cyrillic alphabet but I guess most people who do not understand the letters at all do not notice. You are right about the standards of beauty. Europe adopted through the roman empire the greek beauty standards and those require certain facial proportions that are not common in other parts of the world that had their own standards of beauty but were supressed by the onslaught of the classical culture. The main issue in US is that people tend to seperate themselves into the most basic groups, so you have ''whites'', ''natives'', ''blacks'', ''latinos'' and ''asians''. They tend to bunch together people that differ in many ways culturaly. A Thibetan and a Chinese is the same for them.

[@faitparchristine]

Thank you for sharing this conversation on your channel, it was such an interesting watch ❤️

[@angelenapulis9083]

Thank you for making this video! It was eye-opening to hear the perspectives of four women with various ethnic backgrounds and personal experiences. This makes me love Shadow and Bone even more. And oh my goodness, Jessie Mei Li and Jesper have ADHD?! That’s amazing!! That’s me!! 😍

[@macaroni.5032]

I was inspired by 'six of crows' and the 'shadow and bone' series to create a diverse cast in my many books I'm trying to write. I tried to incorporate as much diversity in race, sexuality, body size, and disabilities as possible without making it tokenism. (Btw I'm an Asian girl and I absolutely loved the Asian representation in the series).

[@KattGothica]

OMG!! Can't wait to watch this and thank you for the heads up on spoilers. Gonna wait till I can finish this season and be back !!!!!

[@rudetuesday]

Really engaging conversation. I'm so glad you were able to get together and gush about something you all enjoyed, and I'm so looking forward to seeing costumes. People are so excited!

[@fa1ruz]

I didn't really wanna watch the series but I might watch it now

[@Heothbremel]

This was so wonderful and really highlighted some things that I was having trouble putting into words. Can't wait to see the cosplays when you all finish!

[@vaze7774]

that was so great, thank you very much! you all are incredible people!

[@joek600]

I really enjoyed the show. I have to say that I found the fantasy victorian era charist Russia setting intriguing and refreshing. Actually Kaz immerged as my favourite character because he seemed the most complicated one. Now about the discussion. First of all I have to say that Im Greek and I come from a cultural background where the classic american standards about racism do not apply and whatever existing traces of it are basically ''imported''. I really do not understand this excessive need for ''representation'' on screen as if its something that would validate ones existence in the world. Representation that is been done for the sake of ticking boxes, ends up in more tokenism imo. Real diversity can only be an organic part and serve the story. For example, the world in Shadow and Bone is a fantasy Imperial Russia. Having characters and bachground characters of Altaic, Mongol, Chinese, Persian and Indian origin is actually necessary! I would say that I expected much more representation of these ethnicities. In the series there is a great example of how to incorporate ''exotic'' characters. All the gunslinger bravos of ketterdam are black. That was brilliant! It insinuated a background story of a certain group with certain characteristics, specializing in a trade. Actually historicaly thats how diversity occured. For example Viking warriors were crossing all Europe to be employed as bodyguards in the court of Constantinople as part of the Varangian Guard. Imagine a public market in Anatolia or Syria during 900AD and suddenly among the mediterranean people there is a group of tall blond Scandinavians sticking out. Thats how you do diversity, not sprinkling exotic people around and expect nobody to notice them. They have to have a backstory, a reason or trade to be there and usually people stick together. So you are going to have whole families or even whole quarters in a city of x or y ethnicity/culture.

[@iSharShar]

Who can resist Prince Caspian?????

[@FlybyStardancer]

Thank you so much for breaking this down!!

[@kirstenpaff8946]

I feel like I fall squarely in team neither, especially based on the characters in the book. The Darkling is a psychopath, and Mal is, to use the medical term, a whiny little bitch. Every other chapter in the second book was Mal being super angsty about Alina having priorities other than himself. Like, DUDE, she just discovered she has super powers and is probably the only thing standing between the world and a psychotic wanna be dark lord...of course you aren't her first priority. Show Mal is significantly less annoying, so I guess he is a better choice than General I fused spikes into your body Kirrigan (seriously that antler prosthetic grossed me out). Still can't muster up much enthusiasm for the ship though.

[@Sewstine]

😂😂😂

[@Livueta1]

I loved the show and all of your analysis of it so much. It feels so good to see a great show with great representation too. I'm glad you do call out where it could have done better too.

[@saena971]

This show got so many things right! Not perfect, sure, but as good as I've seen. I really hope it becomes the standard to beat. And this conversation was fantastic, so many good points made, and fun, too. Made me wish I could be in the room. Since I can't be there, I'll take this moment to say Team Malina all the way! The way the relationship is portrayed thus far (haven't read the books), Alina and Mal are literally each others' everything. Whether or not they ever become lovers is pretty much irrelevant to the intensity of their commitment to each other. How rare is THAT to see in mainstream media? Btw, I literally noped out of the Avatar live action about 5 minutes in because I was so pissed that Sokka and Katara were white. I don't even know if I got far enough to see that Aang was too. Probably not, I think the rage would have been pretty memorable.

[@AJaneiteSews]

Love the show and this video! Inej is my favorite character. I’m tempted to skip to the book she first appears in. And, yes, the scene with Milo on the train is the BEST. I was horrified thinking the goat would be sacrificed when what actually happened was sooooo much better!

[@aliceb6248]

You can totally read Six of Crows without reading the Grisha Trilogy, you just get more context if you read it in order.

[@anelecky]

I started with six of crows and really enjoyed it, it's not necessary to read the other books before

[@Cat-nb5qs]

Yes six of crows (where inej appears) is a separate series to shadow and bone and she's wonderful, my favorite as well. You don't need to read shadow and bone to read six of crows and I can't recommend the books more highly.

[@Aryamoony]

I do not love particularly the plot, it has different very ordinary and banal turns of twist. But it is true, they did a very good job with the chara casting and acting, there are very different characters like you say and you don't feel like they are imposed per politically correctness. They fill and feel natural. I didn't even think about their presence actually.

[@cozymonica]

i so so loved this discussion! i agree completely - this was also 100% my take on the way racism was depicted in the show. it was so affirming and amazing to watch for me. especially because of how much bigger of a role Shu Han eventually plays in the series, bringing in a character who is Shu Han adds so much to the original trilogy.

[@evelyn_r]

Hi, I understand the bingo thing lol I am an Australian born to Chilean parents with my dad's heritage unknown, while my mother's side has English, Italian, Spanish, French. I have been confused for Filipina, Egyptian, Lebanese, Indian and more. I waited to finish this season of the show to watch this and I have to say I loved the variety of diversity in the film. It felt so natural. I did not catch anyone who particularly seemed Latinx but still, it felt like a well incorporated world, it felt larger because of the diversity.

[@amiejo]

Thank you for putting yourselves out there, sharing your perspective and doing the labor to educate others.

[@brandimr23]

I already finished the 1st season, it's really great. I loved it.

[@LadyMcBite]

I loved this show. It has been so hard to find a good fantasy-series that is also well made and AWESOME!

[@zainabamadahy9918]

This has to be the best convo I've watched on Shadow and Bone. Thanks for the depth and insights. Wondering: the actor who plays Mal is half S. Asian. Pakistani, I read. Not acknowledged in the show as I recall and I didn't read the books but I wonder if you & your guests think it's significant.

[@belmore2107]

Brilliant! Thank you for this discourse! Very serious issues and your expression was enthusiastic, humorous, and enlightening! As a white woman, to see the racial bias presented in such a way that the majority of characters wouldn't necessarily see it, was poignant. This certainly mirrors the experience of both people of color and the denial exhibited by many white people.

[@meamela9820]

It took until the very end before I realised I have actually read this series about four years ago, but in a translation, so that's why everything seemed vaguely familiar but I couldn't really pinpoint it. Thank you for the important discussion! It makes me happy to hear about things going forward, but also makes me really angry that this is still an issue.

[@WhiteHeather82]

Loved hearing all your thoughts on the show! I binge watched it last night and am totally feeling the urge to do a Genya cosplay now...not that I need another project.

[@YellowGiraffeGal]

I am caucasian from Europe, and just finished this show recently. Her race was such interestingly commented on in the story, and it seemed SO integral to her character, I didn't even think this was an originally white character in the books. I found that most times I don't even notice the diverse cast, which I guess is a privilege in itself.

[@Nessi-dances]

Oh Good! I am so glad you all put this together, thank you so much! I will definitely move this show up in my 'to watch' list. I am so glad that they did a good job with the casting and the script.

[@arestoktra]

This was such a great video, thank you so much for making it. As someone who is multiracial, I have so many complicated feelings inside and hearing some of the issues mentioned by you all means a lot. ♥️

[@wildmntflower]

I was sad when my husband and I finished the series; I wanted more content! Now I have this wonderful video discussion from you fine ladies! Thank you! I am mixed race, and it just makes me so happy to see this casting! I am really ambiguous looking (I get "What are you?" frequently), so I am not going to claim to have the experience that people who fit more easily into people's stereotypes are subjected to. I am generally "white passing" especially in winter. The idea of being not enough is very strong. My mom calls us "Heinz 57", but I love the "fruit salad" metaphor more. It's just nice to see diversity, even though my particular mix was not represented. I watched with my husband, who is a Russian immigrant, and this series did have a few of the stereotyped Slavic villains, but not as bad (according to him) as some others we have watched. Sometimes I see him wince at the badly pronounced Russian spoken by over-the-top villains. #teamMal

[@Sewstine]

Thank you!!! Also... I really am both #teammal and #teamdarkling - they are both so awesome in different ways!

[@adapienkowska2605]

He was very, very forgiving. Even Alina Starkov name makes zero sense. It is a lot like Rowing's Cho Chang.

[@wildmntflower]

@@adapienkowska2605 my husband is the most even-tempered person I know. It takes a lot to make him critical. He did comment a few times on the way Ben Barnes pronounced names.

[@lisat9013]

Thank you! I love this video! I hadn’t even thought about the diversity and representation I just thought it was a great programme and the casting was perfect. I have the book to read after watching the programme and definitely will think about the points you’ve raised. I didn’t even think about it in Bridgerton (it was oh I love Adjoa Andoh and HELLO WHO IS THAT?!?! Regé-Jean) I’m standard Northern European btw no hate please just expressing my thoughts alongside and have close close family who are a mix of races

[@dochappy26]

Thank you all for this fabulous conversation.

[@adamreynolds9816]

Thankyou for the recommendation and the spoiler alert. I will be back.

[@valasafantastic1055]

Such a great show! Lovely to hear everyone's thoughts. I really hope for season 2!