Sex and Dating Apps | Rob Henderson | EP 193

This episode was recorded on May 7th 2021.
Dr Jordan Peterson and Rob Henderson exchange ideas about the impact of luxury beliefs on the different socioeconomic classes, polyamory, and the idea of the patriarchal institution. Dr. Jordan shares his experience with Henderson as they discuss psychopathy and its relationship with dating apps. Check out this episode to listen to what they have to say about pornography, defunding the police, the role of sex, the consequences of reproductive technology, and much more.
Rob Henderson, a veteran of the US Air Force, is a Ph.D. student in evolutionary and social psychology at the University of Cambridge. He also got his bachelor’s degree in psychology from Yale. His writing has appeared in worldwide newspapers like the New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, and Quillette. Currently, he is writing a memoir to be published in late 2022.
Check out his website for more information:
www.robkhenderson.com/
Follow Rob on Twitter here:
/ robkhenderson
[00:00] Introduction
[00:18] Jordan B. Peterson introduces the guest Rob Henderson
[01:00] Luxury Beliefs, what they are, and how he came up with them.
[06:30] Prospect Theory
[07:30] Rob's experience at University and the competitiveness between students.
[09:30] Examples of luxury beliefs.
[12:00] Competitiveness in University into financial services.
[16:00] The idea that the affluent are shielded from social unrest because of the communities they were raised in.
[19:00] The universe of luxury beliefs.
[20:00] Polyamory, Tinder, and the luxury belief of polyamory trickling down from University into the working class.
[26:00] The idea of the Patriarchal Institution.
[28:00] Psychopathy and dating apps
[33:00] Hypergamy
[39:30] Dark Triad and dating app; the differences between experiences from college women and single mothers.
[43:30] Dating apps "seeding" with fake attractive profiles
[46:00] The different experiences for different social classes when dating
[50:00] Names that pass down the social hierarchy
[50:30] Rob Hendersons color blindness theory
[55:30] Trump's attraction and working classes contempt for the elites
[01:02:30] Consequences of voicing certain beliefs
[01:07:30] Gender differences in luxury beliefs
[01:14:30] Consequences of reproductive technology
[01:18:30] The consent debates taking place on campuses and the role of sex.
[01:21:30] Sexlessness in Japan
[01:22:00] Pornagraphies affect and NoFap
[01:28:00] Sex ratio and their impact on the different cultures at universities.
[01:32:00] Sexy Selfies
[01:33:00] Consequences of pursuing this sort of thought
[01:36:30] Rob's collegiate career and his experience at Cambridge.
[01:44:00] Rob's results from taking Jordan’s personality test.
[01:46:00] Rob’s plans for the future.
Jordan B Peterson is a professor of psychology at the University of Toronto, a clinical psychologist, and the author of the multi-million copy bestseller 12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos, #1 for nonfiction in 2018 in the US, Canada, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Sweden, the Netherlands, Brazil and Norway, and slated for translation into 50 languages.
Dr Peterson has appeared on many popular podcasts and shows, including the Joe Rogan Experience, The Rubin Report, H3H3, and many more. Dr. Peterson’s own podcast has focused mainly on his lecture series, covering a great deal of psychology and historical content. Jordan is expanding his current podcast from lectures to interviews with influential people around the world. We hope you enjoy this episode and more to come from Dr. Peterson in the future.
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[@orboakin8074]

As a Nigerian-immigrant in North America, I have come to one conclusion: Social Justice, wokeness and progressivism can ONLY exist in a developed, liberal and first-world nation/region where there are very few existential threats and where the purposeless masses in urban areas have to create some form of ideology to fill the void in their lives. That is why it makes no sense and destroys that society. That is also why non-western countries and immigrants mostly tend to hate social justice and wokeness more than the native citizens.

[@HladniSjeverniVjetar]

@@suzter It's an expected cycle of urban society which is unnatural in it's core.

[@latinaalma1947]

So true as the Dems are discovering importing illegal Latinos who basically are conservative believing in family values, traditional cultural values, religious values and who almost all want their own businesses. Which is why they are now importing Haitiians but they may have trouble converting them to socialist Democrats as well.

[@erikisava3529]

Couldn't Agree more. I'm venezuelan and furtunately I've lived around since I'm 12. USA, The Carribean (Venezuela and West Indies), Argentina, Germany and now Spain. And goes the same way. But lately with all the socialist ideas that the South American countries are keen to they've starting to become more of a "WOKEN" culture. And its kind of a non coherent and counter productive set of ideas to embrace in a socio-economic evironment such as an third world south american country. More so than in a firstworld one.

[@robertbrown-qf8xy]

Well stated, my friend.

[@gregoryl.levitre9759]

Naw, it can happen anywhere that is controlled by Globalist media PsyOps, especially where the people are easily fooled. Super consumer countries certainly contain a greater amount of such idiots but the USA doesn't have a monopoly on such stupidity.

[@hisworkmanship7258]

Dr Jordan Peterson is the best internet Dad ever. Love this man.

[@piqshe]

Hahahah! Internet dad!! I love it!!!! Best description ever 💕💕

[@laraoneal7284]

💯

[@RoboMiller570]

These conversations are so critical for young people. Please be aware of these dangers; hookup culture is a cancer and I'm so lucky to have survived. Let's promote loyalty.

[@kowalskiplota634]

HPV❤️🦀

[@ivettezepedamedel]

I personally don't see what's so wrong with hook up culture as long as no one is being deceptive or manipulating/guilting someone into an unwanted relationship when that was never the deal. But well, moderation? 😂 I don't think it's the promiscuity itself that hurts. And I grew up religious so this is pretty wild claim coming from me. Maybe I just don't like how assuming and harsh people can be of loveless lust. Maybe I just hate the cynicism.

[@chrisppraefecti373]

@@ivettezepedamedel Even what you deem harmless is inherently addictive, like pornography. And it may start out as fun, but then you keep coming back for more. Soon, you're off to a narcotic trip to heartbreak hell, just like a drug. Also, it's a sin and breaks us off from God, because God is purity and love, and this clearly is not.

[@matthewscott4629]

​@@ivettezepedamedelif something is used/casually it can't later have significant value

[@elisebrides7571]

These dating apps in my opinion were so draining for me. I could only use them for a couple of months at a time at most. I frequently found myself needing a break and returning once I regained the patience and strength to deal with the overwhelming amount of socialization, manipulation, toxicity, and the promiscuity seekers and servers on these apps. It’s different than talking to one person at a time and maybe dealing with these same qualities, but when you’re speaking to several people with the same intentions all at once, it is exhaustingly exacerbating emotionally and mentally.

[@cam0987]

I totally agree

[@tarhunta2111]

Ditto.

[@mlspeopleshoulddateeachoth6940]

Amen Beatrice

[@purplehearts3287]

I 100% agree! 🙄🤦🏻‍♀️

[@sherriflemming3218]

See Jonathan Aslays comments that dating apps have become a form of Prostitution. He empowers supports and protects women.

[@thomasdowling1702]

As a guy, nothing has made me feel more worthless, dispensable and lonely than Tinder and Bumble.

[@furleysbrain]

yup

[@Illlium]

Wait till you get drafted.

[@TriteNight1218]

Yep. They are terrible for your confidence and sense of self worth.

[@marilenat.5255]

Same for me as a woman

[@rekuu27]

For me too.

[@ryanhinderliter6206]

“The ivy league students are already of part of the upper class regardless of their claims. They seem to want to have it both ways. They want to be part of the privileged class and also be rewarded for their allyship with the oppressed. So they get to be rich and privileged and friend to the oppressed which always seemed like a form of greed to me than genuine sympathy. “

[@daphneraven9439]

Ryan H: The ultimate hypocrisy; I do have to disagree with you on one aspect of what you just said though. They do get to be rich and privileged, but they are certainly not actually friends to the oppressed, although they would have everyone think that they are. A friend is concerned with what is, and not just about what people think. That part is a deceit, and a veneer put on just so that they have wider access and fewer restrictions that their status would otherwise give them among that class of people.

[@johnayala2540]

@@daphneraven9439 very well put. I personally know some people you have just described. They couldn't be more hypocritical and flakier😏

[@realdeal3379]

Sounds like Dwayne Johnson

[@Macheako]

@@daphneraven9439 amen. A friend is someone you can truly feel comfortable around...... but I don't feel ANY comfort around these snakes 😂😂😂 and lord knows they never look comfortable when you ask em questions either lol

[@helenachase78]

That struck me too.

[@cn2490]

"The rich and powerful can afford to experiment with their beliefs and life-choices without immediately perished". Amazing.

[@lizlovsdagmara5525]

That is because they have enough money to afford the consequences.

[@karna5998]

The last relationship I had, after we broke up I found out that she was involved with multiple different guys at the same time even when we were in a relationship, this made me wonder if she ever really loved me. Then I turned to promiscuity because I thought it'll feel better. But there's always this feeling of emptiness that's always around the corner, and I feel like I'm constantly running away from a blackhole that's trying to devour me by jumping from woman to woman. But I feel like I entered a never-ending rat race of immediate pleasures with little to none responsibility. Now I'm changing my ways because I realised that I was doing more harm than good

[@oneperson5760]

That's interesting. Do you think it will take a period of celibacy and not pursuing women to reset your mentality?

[@karna5998]

@@oneperson5760 That alone wouldn't help, trying to fight the impulse of just casually having hookups with women is difficult too, because it's easier to find a person who wants hookups than to find a person who wants to start a meaningful relationship which does not include any physical intimacy in the beginning. Trying to see if we can like and enjoy each other's company even if sex isn't involved yet. There are many countries where people don't have sex until they know each other very well for many weeks or months. Then they would have sex after they're in a relationship with each other and sex would be a part of the relationship, not the main selling point. While in most tinder interactions, sex is the selling point. Tinder makes their users sell their bodies to each other for impulsive pleasures and they don't even realise that they're devaluing themselves

[@lisaariottiart]

I tried internet dating and honestly, I feel traumatized. Someone I fell hard for was cheating , ghosting and gaslighting constantly. A Straight up psychopath. I learned the hard way to love and value myself.

[@randomvideogameclips8971]

@@lisaariottiart happened to me too

[@pocnit]

Responsibility to what... there shouldn't be such a thing as responaibility without authority.

[@leemartin9579]

As someone who was extremely successful with women all of my life(mainly before tinder); you end up empty in ways that I could have never believed. I was a touring musician and studio musician most of my life, and women/drugs/alcohol were part of daily life. It tore me up from the inside out, and I am now a traditional Christian, who looks forward to raising a family on a farm in Missouri. I found meaning in life as a carpenter/owner of my own company, theology nerd, and dedication to one woman. Fulfillment was never found in the bedroom, bottle, or drug use in my experience.

[@2BluntsLater]

So ur Catholic?

[@tryazeve9420]

In your photo you don't look old enough to be assuming so much perspective on your past. The way you write, when viewed with your photo, makes me imagine you as intolerably pompous.

[@Andrew-yk7ky]

@@tryazeve9420 Some people live a lot of life in a short time, and anyone who attends to their experience with care and an eye towards their mission will learn a lot in due time. You judging someone based on their photo makes you more likely than him to be the pompous one, if there needs to be a 'pompous one'- but I certainly don't need a 'pompous one', and I bet Lee Martin doesn't give a shit, so that leaves you. You brought the judgment to a comment without much judgment towards others in it, so... this mini sermon is your reward. Thanks for reading~

[@ivankrushensky]

Glad you found yourself and some purpose in life. Some people find that in religion, some in other ways. But you aren't going to find it in the bottom of a bottle or with a mistress.

[@d.h.9239]

You are not doing what Christ said whether you dedicate yourself to one or a million women.

[@jackiek4159]

Love how Dr Peterson didn't know what ghosting was, what an innocent soul! 🙏🏻🙌🏻

[@johndcoffee632]

Ah he knew about nofap tho :p

[@lako8368]

@@stevegwizzle3560 That's like saying "a poor person shouldn't take advice from a rich man because the rich man is not poor". Well, Dr. Peterson was single once; and he's a rich man now. I can't think of anything better relationship-wise than successfully being with 1 person your whole life, so he is certainly the person to listen to regarding this subject. But if you think a conman pickup-artist who likes jumping from woman to woman is a better role-model and "guru" to listen to, then by all means; you do you.

[@thatguy-gl3zl]

@@johndcoffee632 it's an ancient idea.

[@siegfriedbraun5447]

@@stevegwizzle3560 know how many people got/are rich in the way you describe? Less than 10% of all millionaires. Only 3% inherited more than a million. That's excuse making at its worst!

[@siegfriedbraun5447]

@@stevegwizzle3560 That makes zero sense! Your claim that many rich folk got that way without effort, is simply not so. More than 90% of us, are VERY much in tune with that process. Now your claim that less than 10% have long marriages? Less than 50% get divorced. Which can only mean that the other 50 actually attain 25 or more years (unless there's a tragedy). I'll take Peterson, 100% of the time, telling me how to successfully navigate a marriage, than ANY divorced person. You'd have to be a raving lunatic, to think that a person who's failed in marriage many times, is somehow better.

[@Satan666Official]

I went to sleep while playing this, and in my dream, Rob Henderson was my husband, and JP was interviewing us to see if we were suitable homeowners 😂

[@TangoMerchant]

I normally don't wanna hear about other people's weird dreams but this is actually pretty funny. 😂

[@selenasimmons6653]

😂😂 let me stay awake so I won't have crazy dreams😂😄😆

[@officialtheory001]

Well were you? 😂

[@manuelapegues8987]

Haha. Perfect. I mean, he is kinda cute!

[@edwardrice2848]

This is funny, I could imagine a scenario

[@June6Baby10]

I would love to see a discussion on the “Sugar Daddy/ Sugar Baby” relationships. And the psychology of why a man would have a relationship like this. Love listening to these discussions.

[@kiranr3104]

Or why a woman would choose it

[@June6Baby10]

I should have said that as well. Why in the world would a woman want to be in a relationship like that? They obviously have material gains, but what are their emotional gains. You guys are absolutely right. It’s never one sided in relationships.

[@TheTvvinni]

A girl wants a protective daddy and relatively easy life, and a man wants power and status of having a beautiful woman next to him without much effort.

[@privateprivate4315]

Hell I can answer that. A man who wants sex with someone who is “subservient” to them. He wants to feel like she’s not just with him but he “owns” her. It’s giving into the fantasy of objectification.

[@DGMUSICisGOOD]

the psychology is that a man has his own life and time and wants to fuck someone who isnt fucking everyone else.

[@WoFDarkNewton]

This idea about luxury beliefs is so accurate, I almost can’t believe how well it explains things

[@Gaunerchen]

I think the term itself is a great creation. It perfectly describes itself.

[@rose-mariemukarutabana9001]

Yes, this young fellow is really deep-insighted.

[@WoFDarkNewton]

@@Gaunerchen That is also very true.

[@jamesm.vanwinkle3282]

Virtue signalling for social status. So empty. Like the in-crowd in high school.

[@btdtpro]

Yeah, like anti vaxxers. Can you imagine a more luxury belief than not wanting the vaccine for a illness that could take you out of work for weeks?

[@TheBluerayxx]

I wondered why I am so against dating apps, even my dad was like "what's wrong with you, just do it", but after this podcast I understand why; it's predatory for both men and women. The company of preying on the men while bad men use the app to prey on women. The whole thing is appalling. As a 25 year old I've decided to my self I should go out more and meet people rather than use an app.

[@chadmoodybto4620]

Worked BIG TIME for us in the 1990s! And, no, that's not bragging... that's kinda the point: it worked for all types of ppl. Like anything in life: you just have to put in the effort!

[@chadmoodybto4620]

Given how thoughtful & discerning u r... I think the in person approach will work!

[@Lenaopera]

Absolutely 🏆

[@User-jr7vf]

I have been using online dating for 8 years. Chatted with over 2000 women. Met a few of them in person... good ladies and we had a lot of fun together. In the past online dating used to be good. Now it is trash.

[@raukoring]

It is still possible that a good woman and good man go to dating app and find each other..

[@hungryhobbitt6191]

This really speaks to me. I met a girl on tinder and it was just a nightmare, bad all round. The app encourages promiscuity and predatory tactics with its very design resigning people to their looks and brief bios. Its perfect for psychopaths because if you got to know them naturally, say through a friend, you'd catch glimpse of the mask slipping , things would rise to the surface. On tinder you go in blind, whatever they tell you is what they are as they're literally strangers to you. That gives psychopaths free reign to create whatever lies, delusions and deceptions and take what they want from you I fell for this trap and without a strong family and friendship group id still be in that abusive relationship. Dating apps don't provide anything but sex with psychos.

[@RK-ue6sv]

Well done for freeing yourself. Takes guts and courage. It’s not easy.

[@purplehearts3287]

I agree. 🙄

[@trainboy2517]

There’s nice guys out there on dating apps, they just don’t get any matches 😂

[@53strat55]

Not always I would say, I do know friends that are verry genuine and monogamous and ended up in long term serious relationships but its a small percentage. Most people are ofcourse pretty toxic in comparison to the more genuine. Its easy to be more toxic due to the nature of dating apps. I think its possible but you really need to know what you are looking for and able to end it when you notice any flags you consider red. Besides that I personally do not like dating apps because I believe most people simply do not align with my believes, It's probally perfect to have fun but it comes with a price. I do not prefer girls that have slept around in general so dating apps mostly come of as a red flag to me. I believe most people that have serious things going on in their life do not prioritize dating apps for sex at least.

[@ketherwhale6126]

Dating apps don’t give you anything but sex with Psychos. I agree. I don’t use these apps. Horrendous. Playground for psychopaths.

[@johnrambo2876]

29:45 "The hallmark of psychopathy is short term advantage..." This was all I needed to hear to realize who I am surrounded by.

[@Feber2001]

I know. I'll never use Tinder. It reinforces shitty behavior

[@jazz4asahel]

Sums it up nicely.

[@justincavinder5504]

Just a few days ago I literally told my friend, “I have a feeling things in our culture and society is cultivating psychopaths & sociopaths”. I should have finished going to school for psychology & sociology! Instead I’m just a construction worker, what do I know..

[@rose-mariemukarutabana9001]

If you'd gone to these schools, you'd probably not be in a position to tell right from wrong, as you can now. I hope you earn enough to support a family, live by traditional, tested values, and resist the siren songs of these so-called progressives. I wish you a good life in a health family.

[@devincooper4243]

Don't say "just". Constrtuction workers have one of the most important jobs in the world.

[@justincavinder5504]

@@devincooper4243 oh of course! I was being a bit self deprecating and facetious. Somewhat making fun of the stigma’s and narrative that blue collar Americans are dummies and shouldn’t have a voice on big issues. Yet myself and others I know actually intended to get degrees from universities, but seen the high trend of unemployment among those with degrees. As well as the mounds of debt from college. So like myself, we dropped out and now have no debt and make six figures. I would say that’s a smarter decision and shows more self awareness than just following the herd into debt! Btw, when I was in High School, I was one of the few students in my State that was invited to the State Capital & legislature, to debate current political issues. Sometimes I regret not staying in school for political science or psychology, thinking maybe I could have made a broader change for the better. Ultimately though, dropping out of college was the best decision I ever made for myself. I got off my tools and into a management position in under 5 years, I was only 22 when I started construction. No degree required!

[@justincavinder5504]

@@rose-mariemukarutabana9001 thank you for the kind words. Yes, I believe your assumptions on self awareness and broader societal awareness are true, sadly. I say sadly, because I do believe we need the help of the “intellectuals” on our side though. Without them our fight will be much more difficult.

[@oneperson5760]

As a construction worker, you're a more valuable person in society.

[@richspizzaparty]

Used dating apps when I moved to CA over 10 years ago for one year. Never met more liars in my life. A dating profile is like anything else on social media where folks embellish and lie to present a life better than what they have. When I'd question women about this, their answers ranged from, "everyone does it" and "that's what you're supposed to do." Nothing beats getting to know folks through hobbies or friends.

[@BrotherTree1]

I think it's better to randomly meet someone for the first time in public. But yeah, I went into detail about it with my original comment regarding my thoughts on dating apps and the dangers of it... and why I prefer the "classic way" instead.

[@BG-sq7zf]

What most simps, feminist fe/males, white-knights, betas and conservative guys fail to realize: bad boys provide excitement, novelty, unpredictability and fun (fear, roller-coaster drama) to a new level. In other words, stability and commitment (no longer) won't cut it for today's 🦄. Why is that? Before she was your girlfriend, wife or lover, she already had been "run through" so many guys. And each time she slept with someone (both wo/men), she lost a part of her psyche, well-being or mind/soul/spirit. In other words, she is no longer able to have emotional attachment in a healthy or committed way. Cardi B. artist & role model for the most privilege 🦄 on the entire planet: '''My music is always going to make a woman feel like a bad bitch. When you make a woman feel like she’s the baddest bitch in the room, to me, that’s female empowerment.''' Feminist's Ideology from Sheryl Sandberg, chief operating officer of Facebook: '''My advice to women is date all of them: the bad boys, the cool boys, the commitment-phobic boys, the crazy boys. But do not marry them. The things that make the bad boys sexy do not make them good husbands. When it comes time to settle down, find someone who wants an equal partner. Someone who thinks women should be smart, opinionated and ambitious. Someone who values fairness and expects or, even better, wants to do his share in the home. These men exist and, trust me, over time, nothing is sexier.''' Isaiah 3:12 *Childish* leaders oppress my people, and *women* rule over them. O my people, your leaders mislead you; they send you down the wrong road. Proverbs 31:3 Don't give your strength (attention, resources, mental point origen) to women, nor your ways to that which destroys kings. Ezekiel 23:20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. *Sex and Culture* by Joseph Daniel Unwin *The Rational Male Series* by Rollo Tomassi *The Manipulated Man* by Esther Vilar *The Myth of Male Power* by Warren Farrell *The Feminist Lie: It Was Never About Equality* by Bob Lewis *Anatomy of Female Power* by Chinweizu Ibekwe *Men on Strike* by Helen Smith *Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars: An Introductory Programing Manual* by Anonymous 🕊💚🙋🏻‍♂️

[@diviningrod2671]

Women basically remove all of their own hope of finding their happiness one of my younger buddies said he puts reading, current/last book read as a filter on his dating app approach. He said it weeds out some of the undesirables. Seems like a $hit show out there and my heart goes out to young men in this climate. The In person / though friends/ hobby meeting seems like the best bet still. But no easy task nonetheless, the apps have added to the rise of the 49ers( 4s that think they're a 9, because of $imp attention)

[@joanclawford8964]

I came off dating apps years ago... Never again... !!

[@diviningrod2671]

@@joanclawford8964 that bad?? The prospect of engaging in it fills me with dread. Granted I'm much older most likely, but all the horror I've heard gives me pause.

[@HaHa-lx9yo]

This is the second time I’m watching this episode and I gotta say this has got to be one of the most enlightening podcast episodes in the internet for me.

[@jwurmnest1779]

Jordan Peterson rocks!

[@pavlal.4552]

I actually met my husband on Tinder and we now have 3 kids. But he was one of the really few men out there who was on it for a relationship. The amount of "the other people "on it is crazy.

[@weilelee0416]

There is a very fine chinese word to describe affluent upper class people being verbally progressive but act selfishly conservative, it's roughly translated as "sophisticated egoism". Upper classes were taught and genuinely want to present noble virtue, in the same time want to retain their superior social status. This makes them become oppressors that believe good men in themselves, while able to look past evils that benefit them. As the chinese said, a very sophisticated way of self-validation.

[@topsuperseven7910]

Yes, I like the English translation here: Sophisticated Egoism.

[@BG-sq7zf]

Your comment was valuable 👍🏼

[@rhs5683]

May you comment this word in (traditional) chinese?

[@Illlium]

It's not sophisticated at all. They need to justify their higher position in society to themselves, otherwise they would go insane if they squared it with their beliefs. This is as rudimentary of a self-preservation mechanism as it gets.

[@machtnichtsseimann]

@@Illlium - EX: I know of an American of Chinese descent, highly educated, retired successful businesswoman, who has conversed with me many times enough to the point where I've seen such self-preservation with a "Chinese touch" akin to the OP's description. She prides herself on being rather elite and "above" the masses ( She has in fact stated a few times, "Most people are not intelligent." ), projecting how smart she in supporting Progressive values ( environment / governance / religion ), YET in private with me she is more conservative. She simply won't admit her real self to her friends, community, family. To her: status, position, and talking like a Progressive or Liberal is where it's at.

[@brookeanderson9211]

Bless Jordan for casually admitting to not knowing what ghosting is.

[@The_Bushman]

I didnt know untill 5 minutes ago either I'm 32.

[@tomasnokechtesledger1786]

I know since 2014cwhen I started studing female narcissism.

[@christianxxx9393]

Known since I was 14, I’m 22 now.

[@jmb8989]

Ghosting is sad especially for the one doing it. I was ghosted before there was a common term for it and wondered what I had done to cause it. Years later I realized this person has a habit of running from conflict and responsibility, has a rather broken life as a result. Those who choose to ghost are impulsive and lack the boldness needed in saying, "Hey, this is over."

[@ayda2876]

i was very surprised that he didnt know lol

[@raewise6345]

I am thankful Dr Peterson is willing to listen to new reports and studies, to younger researchers. He is not only an excellent TEACHER, but also a devoted student.

[@patriciachadwick5658]

In 50 yrs time, there's going to be millions of lonely, childless old people living in care homes. No one to visit, buy birthday/Christmas gifts,or the small luxuries that are so important in such places. A truly dystopian future.

[@ashleykathryn9038]

The loneliest generation, truly devastating.

[@caroc4327]

“Once reproduction became a biological choice for the mother, then fatherhood became a social choice for the man.” Wow!!! 1:17:00

[@americancitizen748]

And so began the destruction of the American family...

[@aaronsmith7909]

@@americancitizen748 *the western family. It's not just an American problem anymore.

[@darthvadersmom1192]

It was never a choice of women they were simply beaten up, abandoned and killed by their fathers, brothers or the baby daddy. Men always had a free will to support kids and still fail cause they decide to.

[@lavarball7538]

@@darthvadersmom1192 be quiet woman.

[@darthvadersmom1192]

@@lavarball7538 Go pick up the soap in jail buddy

[@aguywhohikes1271]

I’m going to be quite honest. So I was extremely addicted to porn, hookers, tinder, everything in this category. Everything they’re saying is 100% accurate. I always say tinder rejection completely skews real rejection, face to face. I know a bunch of people who are sex or cybersex addicts and not one, NOT ONE, has a stable life. Now I do realize I have a biased view on this topic based on my life experiences, but i firmly believe these apps are 99% garbage and harmful. You don’t need tinder. You don’t need bumble.

[@meeks4004]

How did you break your addiction...?..what was the motivating factors?

[@sorchx]

Never used it myself but also have been single for three years since that's all anyone uses anymore so it's a hard one to navigate.

[@reda_valle]

instead you need grinder

[@aguywhohikes1271]

@@reda_valle It could be a viable replacement.

[@jkeezy93]

Never had a hooker. Didn't seem worth it. Regular relationships eat up enough money. Can I ask what your reasoning was outside of just sex? Did you think you'd "pretty woman" her out of her lifestyle or was it just an impulsive decision at the time? I'm a year off fentanyl now, and even with my experiences in horrible neighborhoods on a daily basis, never even been asked let alone seen a hooker. Then again I probably had drug blinders on lmao

[@jessieb93855]

This information makes all of the current insanity make sense, absolutely enjoyed every minute.

[@naraendrareddy273]

There are good girls and women left.

[@hyacinna]

​​​@Precious Moment we are probably among the most monogamous species ever, we can stay in a set relationship for our entire lifespans, we tend to not have multiple partners at once unless we're somewhat high in our social hierarchies, this goes for tribal societies aswell, the concept of love is a social construct based on observed and lived reality as with any social construct, it is something that is felt in sexual excitement in terms of 'romantic love', in 'nurturing instinct' in terms of parental love/and similar dynamics, and in 'social/collective instinct' in terms of friends and platonic attraction, modern society has a very dangerous notion and understanding of 'love', due to individualization which has created quite the problems for navigating and structuring functioning society, it is a highly social thing

[@flynnmorrow6945]

This gives me an even greater than the already huge appreciation that I have for my husband.

[@jenaefrick5819]

Same 😭

[@marinavasquez8813]

Agree

[@shawnac9289]

Amen

[@josephbarnes4063]

you guys are sus

[@savethefamily-savetheworld5539]

This is why I adore Jordan. His ability to express truths around monogamy and marriage. In my opinion the number one problem of our time. The family

[@mirzasalkic2617]

Vin Diesel wants to know your location

[@thelowup9017]

@@mirzasalkic2617 😂😂😂

[@haraldvondoom3314]

What marriage? "By 2017, only 6.9 Americans for every 1,000 people were married." And from all divorces 80% is initiated by women, because marriage is a contract that women get awarded when they brake it. Monogamy and marriage has been dead and burried for some years now.

[@Illlium]

@@johnniemac173 Completely reluctant to call out that these are women's fantasies. Not surprising, although a little disappointing.

[@kristinfrostlazerbeams]

@@haraldvondoom3314 is this 6% of the population you cite all people in the USA or people of marriage age, 18 or other? You should look at the number of children per 1000 and then do the math to just count the ones that can marry.

[@kwakuklaus951]

“The hallmark of psychopathy is short term advantage taken by an individual without care for anyone else”. Damn it’s more prevent in our society in both men and women than I realized

[@PalimpsestProd]

typo: prevent = prevalent. this is the place to be pedantic ;)

[@badass447]

The only thing i didn't like with what jordan said here was his implication that all of those 4% of men were acting psychopathic when anyone would do the same if given the chance.

[@Cee_Eff]

Great conversation. I found that "lust" has replaced love with many people and many of the women mentioned in the discussion equate "swag/charisma " as character. Tinder has caused many women to equate "sexual chemistry" with true compatibility.

[@matthewscott4629]

Women are more concerned with personality than character

[@nilocblue]

I’m an average looking guy, very friendly and treat women respectfully, and I’ve been on and off all dating apps for YEARS. All I can say, is that I’m not one of the “top dogs” they mentioned, or one of those hyper successful men, so my experience with the apps has been horrendous. It destroys your confidence and is a huge waste of time. Whenever I mention to women that it’s harder on men, they get upset and don’t believe me.

[@lexiemaep7930]

I definitely believe you. I am a woman and hate online dating for different reasons but I can't imagine how difficult it is for guys

[@lexiemaep7930]

How old are you? I'm just curious which age group you fall in cause online dating for men tends to get better after the age of 35

[@kathymartin5730]

Waste time for me. Met hubby at concert.

[@kristenstewart1250]

I'm an attractive woman and I got off dating apps because it's not good for women either. The men act disrespectfully and are used to easy sex and the whole thing is just a disaster. Dating apps are bad for everyone, it's not a contest as to who has it worse.

[@appscation8510]

@@lexiemaep7930 so your saying men, should have to wait 35 years🤔 to get sex... from a girl who has likely slept with 5 small towns in those 35 years... then because that women is loosing time, she tries to pressure men into marrying her street walker self😂🤣😂 yeah, men are done with this nonsense

[@TractionPhoto]

This is another devastating and enlightening conversation. Dr. Peterson, you continually find thinkers that are still thinking. Thank you 🙏

[@user-rp9su2bf5h]

Could someone please make subtitles for this video?

[@samuelreiter6412]

CC stands for close captioning.

[@benoith5710]

@@user-rp9su2bf5h is I

[@lordz00]

He lost me at "decriminalization of drugs is a luxurious belief".

[@josephpugh1331]

@@lordz00 I am slightly confused. What is your opinion on the decriminalization of drugs?

[@lookinin123]

I liked this for a few reasons. Firstly, Rob is a freshly minted graduate of these ivy league institutions. He has first-hand experience in the most bewildering disconnect between some of these luxury beliefs and real life. The other reason was that Rob wasn't bowing at the feet of the great professor. In fact, he challenged Jordan on quite a few points, and others he flat out disagreed with. Respectfully, of course, but it was quite refreshing to hear. Keep up the good work, Jordan. 4+ million subscribers indicate that you're producing valuable content.

[@frusia123]

Yes, I liked that too. I find this quite wide spread adoration of JP cringe worthy. I mean, he is definitely a remarkable person, I have a lot of respect for him and think his work is really a gift to the world. I also find myself disagreeing with what he says quite often. But even if someone agrees with his every word, find yourselves a suitable god people, stop making one out of JP.

[@cj3126]

K: I thought the same. Great stuff.

[@floolo1]

@@frusia123 couldn‘t agree more. i also love him and think its a fascinating person listening to and very intelligent. on the other hand i think his views are sometimes out of touch e.g online dating (confuses tinder with a hookup app, confuses swipes with real choices, confuses matches with sex)

[@frusia123]

@@floolo1 Years back there was a fun personality test and one of the characters you could "be", was the Priest. I feel like JP has this priestly quality to him, he's like a prophet shouting from the top of a mountain, burning with the holy fire... This fire is his great strength, it makes him very charismatic. It also might be the reason why so many people perceive him as some kind of a godly figure. But I also think JP doesn't always know how to work with this fire and so sometimes it's consuming him, skewing his views, depriving of healthy and valuable objectivity

[@cahlendavidson2921]

So a few months ago my dad died and I changed my life immediately. Professor Peterson has been the one to keep pushing me forward and making me believe I can do this. 3 months later I have a good job I just stayed in a $200 hotel to go see a girl I've known for a long time and take her out. Was a gentleman the night went as well as I think it could go and as I wait in the lobby of the hotel to head back home a successful looking guy sitting next to me is listening to another than Jordan B Peterson. Thank you a thousand times over!

[@goodmusic210]

Hope she put out bro

[@Spartan1Four1]

I have seen 3 full podcast episodes and I am in love with this channel. You are amazing Jordan, keep up the amazing work!

[@bloopboop9320]

1:25:07 Just a correction: the nofap community does not treat it as a game. Most of the people on there are people with serious pornography addictions and are trying to overcome their issues.

[@mosepro.1423]

I support you. It really helped me to overcome porn which had killed my life

[@Jazzafritsch]

Up the boys break the porn

[@wondrousmindtrick8450]

Im wondrousmindtrick and Im a porn addict 😬 it truly is an epidemic and from my estimation will destabilize society in ways not forseen. All cred to those sucessful no fapers out there. It aint easy.

[@rose-mariemukarutabana9001]

Chris, he meant that in trying to help each other with this weaning effort, people use the game methodology: who's winning more points by staying off the diabolical stuff longest, and let's see who gets even more points next time we count. This is a very helpful ways of dealing with this sort of thing in a group. They are not trivialising the effort - on the contrary, they are trying this "game-like" method of helping each other.

[@nareshsookraj9230]

When I was a porn addict I thought no fap november also was a fad and trend that would just go away. But I feel completely different now after giving it up. Of course like anything once your brain gets used to something and you cut it off from it it's going to hurt a lot. But I'm here to tell you guys it gets better. Fill the void with something productive. Go exercise, read a good book, play some video games, hang out with your friends. Just like John Doyle said Pornography is a weapon used to pacify men. Don't let that happen to you my brothers.

[@abvideos2197]

Great conversation! I went to Yale in the 1990s, and as the child of a business owner in a blue collar industry in a “fly over state”, I found that my Yale classmates’ beliefs were very much “luxury beliefs.” I felt like they had rarely ever even met “real” poor people, and their political beliefs were accordingly out of touch. And it seems to have gotten worse I’m the decades since.

[@jmecklenborg]

I'm a lowly Ohioan who was interviewed there for grad school back in 2002 but didn't get in. I agree that most might have waited tables for a summer but otherwise had no acquaintance with the sort of people, things, and emotions that I considered to be entirely ordinary. I suspect that some of them were nervous that a low-life like myself might be better at what they defined themselves by, so I was kept at a safe distance.

[@needstoescape7145]

@@jmecklenborg The affluent college kids that I knew would never stoop so low as to wait tables. I’m not exaggerating. They had no idea what it was like to have to work to pay for school.

[@bjuliene]

They have mommy and daddys money.

[@abbyxiong3931]

They lack wisdom and experience. That's bad especially if these are suppose to be our leaders and experts.

[@suzanne5924]

I have been waiting to hear a conversation like this for soooo long. So many crucial topics that are important for people to hear and discuss. One has to be very careful these days with the truth, so well done!

[@justinaadk5081]

Totally loved this. This conversation needed to be had.

[@squareinch9990]

This is SO validating. For years, I've been saying, about various conversations re. life circumstances, "It's a luxury for you to believe that," or "Isn't it sort of a privilege, for you to see it that way?" For the last 4 years, I've also caught a lot of crap for saying, "Sex isn't casual." 😁

[@SilverShadow02]

I've said the same about atheism. When someone picks your food and puts it (in safe eating condition, no less) in the store for you to buy with the money you were given in exchange for your time, it's no wonder people aren't grateful or appreciative for the endless resources, entertainment, and pleasures they have. They worked for none of it.

[@AntoDesormeaux]

@@SilverShadow02 How does atheism relate to having worked to produce what they consume? Does that not apply to every case where the person doesn't have to participate in the food-making process, e.g. a king?

[@matthewsisti4382]

@@AntoDesormeaux I think he's saying that rich people are so far removed from the core parts of divine design that they don't value certain aspects of life. For example, day and night is a regulatory tool that people use to know when they should be awake and when they should sleep. With all the technology we now have, lights and smartphones could keep us up all night and we basically have no need to value the gifts of nature, which is actually making us all less happy in the long-run. At least to me it seems like people are not as happy as they were. Having everything given to you is harmful. It's like the spoiled child who was given everything from a young age. The child no longer appreciates things and becomes a terror. Think about losing electricity and how amazing and appreciative you are once it comes back. It's a luxury now to just have everything given to you and people need to get back in touch with things like growing their own food or connecting face-to-face with other humans.

[@AntoDesormeaux]

@@matthewsisti4382 I think you're totally right about that. We've made enormous changes to our lifestyles having no idea what the consequences would really be, we just assumed that we were rational and would adapt more and more as we "progress" through technological advances. We're just not that rational though, and we have a human nature that we can't just wish away. We didn't evolve for this shit and now everyone is increasingly anxious, lonely and depressed.

[@vladimirofsvalbard9477]

I'm not religious. Though it seems 'very' apparent to me that atheists are afforded their ability to criticize religion, due to a lineage of religious philosophies that birthed their freedom to do so. I think that's also the point Formula Zero is attempting to make.

[@sherlock7898]

Thank you both so much for talking about this! I am a 23 yr old female conservative Christian and I knew that monogamy was the only way I could have a happy family life but it’s hard to explain why. Rob has a way of explaining it very simply but delivering a lot of information at the same time. Absolutely love this episode!

[@tdesq.2463]

Anyone to whom You would need to explain Your Self is not worthy of You. Just not Your tribe. You are Good! Don't waver. ~TD, Boston

[@youngthinker1]

@Roza Huber depends on what you mean by ignored.

[@youngthinker1]

The gift of singleness hurts to bear. Yet, it allows you to mature, and grow beyond your years. Such is its rewards. From a 32 year old virign bachelor.

[@tdesq.2463]

@@youngthinker1 Excellent point!

[@tdesq.2463]

@@blinkypushbuttons There you go. Just give it to her straight. We have a word for it. It's called REALITY. Someone had to do it. Good Comment! ... TD, Boston Amendment: I don't know about having to stay alone. But, hook-up apps? ... I mean, gimme a break. Those are created by busineness people whose profits rely on Non-Monogomy. That being the case, they are deliberately designed and marketed ... even if "discreetly" ... to move people away from monogamy. The logic is pretty simple. Their business model is all about Quantity, not Quality. They do not want people pair-bonding. That does not make money for them. And they are in business to make money, not to make people healthy and happy. ... TD, Boston

[@savannamoody4870]

Incredible conversation! Both Jordan and Rob taught me so much.

[@GammaZeta]

What an amazing and enlightening conversation. Certainly has the ring of truth. Thank you gentlemen.

[@Banksiana]

This may be a British thing but in regards to those who have lots of "luxury beliefs" we often refer to them as "champagne socialists". In other words, they'll express all sorts of beliefs about the state of the world, inequality, and the oppressive capitalist yet behave totally different in private (e.g. drink Moet, drive Audis etc.).

[@batguano99]

Seems to be a kind of pandemic. At least many languages/countries have such terms (below from Wikipedia). - - In Denmark they are called "Kystbane Socialister", because they live in big villas in affluent communities north of Copenhagen, which you can convienietly reach by taking the train, Kystbanen, along the Gold Coast (a bit like Hamptons, I presume): "The concept is broadly similar to the English Champagne socialist, the American Limousine liberal or latte liberal, the German Salonkommunist, the Dutch salonsocialist, the Italian Radical chic, the Portuguese esquerda caviar, the Spanish pijoprogre, the Argentinian Spanish zurdo con osde, the Chilean Spanish red set, and the Danish Kystbanesocialist, referring to well-off coastal neighborhoods north of Copenhagen. Other similar terms in English include Hampstead liberal, liberal elite, chardonnay socialist, smoked salmon socialist, and Bollinger Bolshevik."

[@thetruthwillsetyoufree9209]

Bernie Sanders

[@jakobole]

OTOH, if you are poor and want better say, "protection", you are just envious. There needs to be a balance so that the Gini-C doesn't tilt too much. Hence I'm 1/3 conservative, 1/3 liberal and 1/3 socialist. A balance is needed.

[@frusia123]

@@batguano99 We don't have this expression in Polish. We had the real communists.

[@lebowski6203]

It’s la gauche caviar in French (the caviar left)

[@paolal3497]

You can tell that Jordan almost sees something of himself in Rob. This was very pleasant to see... An honest conversation with an open discussion between two brilliant minds

[@MC-rw3lc]

Was it just me seeing JP interrupting and speaking over his guest much more than usual?

[@paolal3497]

@@MC-rw3lc no, me too, but i think that Jordan was interrupting more than usual because hè saw it more as a discussion between collegues rather than an interview. It's quite common when you are experts in the same field, but i don't think that Jordan did it on purpose or with spite.

[@martin92177]

Maybe not, but it was very irritating - I wanted to hear what his guest had to say, not JP repeating things he’s said many times before. He seems to calm down later.

[@paolal3497]

@@martin92177 yeah, I've noticed that in the crowder interview too, maybe hè is taking some meds, i don't know, but hè seems to be doing better, so I'm happy for him

[@The99Nabz]

@@martin92177 The thing is, I think Jordan's podcasts represent the idea of duologos: the coming together of people that speak and build upon each others views so that they reach some newer level of truth that they wouldn't have separately. That doesn't happen in the formal context of an interview because one person is speaking and never testing their ideas against another axe. What good does that do either of them? Jordan's podcasts represent discussions more than interviews. More can be learnt out of discussions as opposed to an interview for everyone involved: the two speakers and the listeners, because they are all witnessing bad ideas dying and good ones propagating and adapting and growing. What you call interruptions are just the two-way aspect of a dialogue

[@forgottenangel8]

@Rob Henderson all the best for your future endeavors! Thank you both for sharing your thoughts and information. Wish you both well.

[@Pozativ1]

This is so good. This should be required viewing for all of humanity

[@_______-]

Great conversation. I remember listening to one young women who had lived the Sex in the City lifestyle for a while. She found that trading intimacy for the false promise of security was counter productive. Because men are attracted to the feminine, they would enjoy the physical intimacy, but fail to make a commitment. She found that each time she needed to protect her emotions a little more, and began to lose the very femininity that made her attractive to the opposite sex. It became a case of diminishing returns for her. It took some time to reverse that damage.

[@mbwilson8592]

You are a great writer.

[@piqshe]

Wow! This sounds a lot like me

[@lynncrf]

Do you have a link?

[@Rauxanhdauma]

most women don't understand they are programmed by the nature for certain amount of partners. Let's say 3-4 maximum after that they loosing ability to pair bond with a beloved one.

[@imapersonnotanumber8940]

@@Rauxanhdauma it could be the opposite. if base it on biology rather than social construct, humans need to pass on their genes to reproduce. as a woman has one egg, man has billions of sperm, and they both want the best for survival. it stands to some reason that a woman doesn't want to waste the one egg per month, so she should sleep with as many men to get that strongest sperm for survival. I was taught the opposite at college, by a male who was always sleeping around, and a woman only has a few hours per month to get the egg fertilized, so she should sleep 'around' to optimize her chances of the best sperm in the limited time. Men dont need to.

[@DorcyDel]

This felt like being let in on a graduate student-professor consult meeting. Super cool!!!

[@DorcyDel]

@@joeycopenhaver at PhD level, this is exactly how discussions sound like. The student (Rob is a PhD student) has a theory he is proposing and the Professor is there as a guide and not a teacher. So they tease each other's way of thinking and the job of the professor is to allow the student to concretize the proposed theory....not necessarily argue. The professor also expects to learn something from the student. PhD students need to read far and wide

[@danielkucera5916]

Would definitelly watch Rob's channel if he had one. We need more people like him and you Dr. Peterson!

[@Forheavenssake1ify]

So refreshing to hear informed, pragmatic "common sense" explain why we should always pay attention to what people do, not what they say.

[@FourEyedFrenchman]

I play strategy games like Stellaris and Europa Universalis IV a lot. Every now and then, I go on a bored ego trip and deliberately fuck up my nation's perfectly stable society and/or economy just to see what happens. There's no consequence to me, but my digital citizens are forced to be performers in my manufactured shit-show, and they usually die in droves. I feel like the elites believe themselves to be the players of a strategy game.

[@andylangeland496]

I think that is a fairly accurate analogy

[@vincentfegley6068]

Vicky 2 is really fun. It always makes me sad when people start to rebel a lot. I don't like gassing my craftsmen.

[@eax2010EA]

Stellaris is especially brutal when it comes to pops

[@vincentfegley6068]

I dont have Stellaris yet. I've seen some clips of people just straight up genociding other species and shit, I've also seen people go with xenophile builds to try to create as many half breeds as possible. (I found the latter was really funny). I think rimmy did that one. Edit: it was actually valefisk.

[@maemaemay7013]

Interesting what happens in the "luxury" of getting bored inside the privilege of a game you are being played to pay for. I hope you get yoursf over it soon. Real life is a trip...plus there are humans out here! It's 100% worth it.

[@timothyh7053]

This conversation made me so happy that I married my wife 19 years ago.

[@LittleMissHoop]

You have no idea.

[@garymitchell5899]

Weren't you already happy? Strange comment

[@LittleMissHoop]

@@garymitchell5899 yours is the strange comment!

[@ashimaprashar1]

@@garymitchell5899 hahahahahahaha, Gary , so funny!

[@kill3rstar595]

Nice conversation you guys had. Respect for you both, keep these intellectual conversations coming. ♥️

[@Lalaloopsy38]

Phenomenal talk between 2 bright minds, not to mention all the intelligent insightful comments I find here. Thank you so much 🙏🏽

[@Misteraitch1967]

one finds it a sad state of affairs (pun intended) when people will commit to a two year contract for a phone, but can't commit to more than one night when it comes to relationships. Bring back the days when we used to love people and use things instead of loving things and using people!

[@Illlium]

You keep using that "relationship" word. I don't think it means what you think it means.

[@Misteraitch1967]

@@Illlium one only used it once and one perceives it to means more than one evening

[@kellyu465]

Succinctly said! Well done!

[@michajurczuk6265]

instead of asking 'bring back the days' on the internet, just live the days yourself. its not as if there is some law that can be put in place to make the society better

[@petyrbaelish1216]

Sex does not equal relationship.

[@Meru732]

Kudos to the intellect of Rob Henderson. He is a very knoledgeable and articulate person.

[@veerswami7175]

I think only I see him from india kudos to u buddy 😂😂😂

[@Stylishh7]

Fantastic content, so happy that these concepts are discussed and thought through, really helps women and men make good decisions for themselves while understanding the results of negative outcome peer pressure.

[@joanhuffman2166]

Thank you for the introduction to Rob Henderson. I just wish more of his writing was available to people who are not subscribed. Looking at you Wall Street Journal, New York Times and others.

[@Mom-cf2je]

Definitely have this guy on again-very interesting stuff, I liked hearing from him

[@AVONEUS]

So casually articulate

[@monikemonty]

I'm so happy that he is back and better. Praying for his health and his family 🙏 Amazing conversations.

[@rose-mariemukarutabana9001]

Good job, Keep praying so these nasty attacks don't harm him. Prating for him would provide a kind of spiritual vaccine against these poisonous attacks from those who do not want him to continue waking people up to the better values.

[@bjnartowt]

Yup, he's like Gandalf the White. He's come back to us, at the turn of the tide ;)

[@user-xs9835]

Do you have to tell the whole world that you are praying for someone? Do it in silence and do not rub in info from someone's past to show yourself in a better light!

[@jennyfoxworth2445]

As an asian woman (born and grow up completely in asia) when i studied abroad for my college degree, I get nervous talking to western women anything about sexual differences without stepping into western political correctness, even if I shut up I'm politically incorrect. 🤣

[@sophiaamaly1235]

Wow, fascinating and very informative. I have become hooked on Dr. Petersons interviews for the last week. I go to bed thinking about them and wake up thinking about it. I am learning a lot in a short amount of time about important matters. I just can’t thank you enough Dr. Peterson.

[@NickGuenther21]

May this type of content never go away. Love it.

[@Kaiser68]

This is such an incredibly interesting conversation. I'm sick of hearing the condescending tones with which polyamorous people tell me that my way of committing to a relationship is old and pointless. I'm glad there are people in this world who will have these kinds of conversations for all our benefit!

[@adio8824]

@@cypressbutane4575 clearly his takes are true else you won’t be in the comments tearing yourself from limbs to limbs trying to prove him wrong

[@Kaiser68]

@@cypressbutane4575 when it comes to evolutionary strategy and the result of non monogamy (lots of single mothers), do you think there is a bigger point here than just your choices?

[@gpr5124]

Most people in olden times were polyamorous. Monogamy is a relatively new concept.

[@Kaiser68]

@@gpr5124 no, they weren't. What they were was promiscuous, and their neglect of their children lead to societal collapse.

[@gpr5124]

@@Kaiser68 In many cultures, we can see polygamy and sometimes polyandry. But it is now becoming less common.

[@PHONICSmossy44]

Imagine being a grad student and fascinating JP with your theories and knowledge. Incredible

[@kimemorrison]

Greatly enjoy this conversation and the idea of luxury beliefs. Had not heard of Rob Henderson so thank you for this introduction!

[@antonia6059]

My husband likes to say that he’s a working class man with a rich man’s standards. We live like a 1950’s couple. And our marriage and children are healthier and happier because of it.

[@feleperivera8734]

It's great that you have a healthy relationship, but is it worth living 'in the past' than embracing the present?

[@lukadominicobendorfer5776]

@@feleperivera8734 Seeing how the present is going. Yeah, good for them. Embrace past values, obviously modern arent working. Relationships are plagued with infidelity, short term gain, selfishness and doubt. Literally everyone is depressed due to lack of reliable partners and love, yet people rarely want to take actual responsibility (which was much present in past relationships).

[@bobwilkinsonguitar6142]

I doubt you live like a 1950s couple in almost any major ways aside from aesthetic, but I'm glad you're happy!

[@feleperivera8734]

@@lukadominicobendorfer5776 from my point of view, those are not past values, but rather right values, which have worked just fine both in past and present. I just don't like how the emphasis is put on 50s or 40s or 60s or whenever you think you belong or wherever you wish to come back. I agree that today we stray further and further from the right values, which however doesn't imply that they are non-existent. What I'm trying to say is that maybe it's better to proclaim the right values than to abstract away from the present, no matter how damned it might seem.

[@TheShamuraja]

Hey, honest congratulations to you!! Can you please let us know more how to make it work, how to make the dating work, how to communicate what one wants without going into some kind of pitfalls ( for me as a woman, I probably already have some blind spots :)). Do you guys live in an area that is more conservative?

[@storiesforsuccess3102]

I met my girlfriend on Hinge, but this was after countless dates with a type of woman that I didn’t even know existed (at least in large quantities). I’m not insinuating they were necessarily “bad,” but there are very few men who they would be compatible with. Dating apps have gotten increasingly worse (as far as monogamy.) There are significantly more men than women on dating apps, which means even undesirable women are flooded with attention and validation from newly desperate men. Obviously these men would never monogamously date these women, but they don’t know the difference in a real interest and a sexual interest. Many men will sleep with women they aren’t even remotely attracted to. This constant, perceived validation is going to change the behavior of anyone. If you condition someone with almost no options into thinking they have endless options, you’ve conditioned them to die alone. It’s nobody’s fault really. I hate it for them, because they don’t even come to this realization until their 40’s or 50’s. Where you live makes a huge difference in the type of person you encounter though.

[@feelingoffbalance]

Can you elaborate on the type of woman you encountered on the dating apps?

[@Herdoctor3]

"If you condition someone with almost no options into thinking they have endless options, you’ve conditioned them to die alone." sounds like porn, too.

[@vicbaker8367]

Exactly what you said, and even more. Somehow, the brain mechanism of a brain on porn undermines the “intimate” part of relationships. And the female desire to be wanted has turned many females into an easy sexual target rather than an equal in a relationship- who should have as much to say about how a relationship progresses as the male counterpart. Unfortunately, most women are trying to “accept “ the prescribed male “need” for sex rather than understanding that the sexual act in and of itself is not the intimacy that drives a human “couple” relationship. She forgoes her sexual need for intimacy so that he can fulfill his non-intimate sexual fantasies, which was trained through the blue screen. As 50%+ males over the age of 12, world wide, are currently addicted to the blue screen (pornography; called the new epidemic), the idea that couple intimacy can be resurrected through social change is highly unlikely. Addictions are difficult to control, and an addiction in a juvenile brain creates neural pathways that are nearly impossible to redirect. Many want to blame feminist “man bashing” for the reduction in marriage in today’s society, and there’s truth to that.... but simultaneously, porn addiction may be even more damaging to possible future, and present relationships, as it dehumanizes both individuals in a relationship.

[@----.__]

@@vicbaker8367 You can thank the fat acceptance movement for the increase in porn consumption!!

[@STEVENGOSNEY]

Prager Force homeschoolers seem to think that Hinge is better for long term committed relationships. Do you find this to be true? Why?

[@psibernight2177]

I have never heard such a fact driven discussion on social constructs and relationships. I feel I need to rematch this after thing on it. Thank you to the both of you.

[@janineruiz6891]

At 1:48 :00 I finally know how to properly end a great conversation. Thank you Dr. Peterson

[@seralynn7286]

I always had a hard time explaining to my mother how many of the social justice issues frequently talked about today are mostly a concern expressed by the upper middle and upper classes, and not by the actually allegedly oppressed minorities. Listening to this conversation really helped with getting me to think more about the concept. You pointed out not only that it was a phenomenon, but why it's happening. I think the why is key to being able to explain it to others.

[@klausroethel5961]

Refreshing to see the master and the apprentice having a meeting of minds ,with the apprentice holding his ground, and the master remaining masterful

[@dianedizayee5211]

Spot on.

[@buffoonustroglodytus4688]

And the apprentice remaining apprenticeful

[@maryjoanangeles4030]

Nice to see like minded people meeting and learning a little bit more from each other despite the large age gap. The humility shines despite the obvious intellectual powess aand sincere desire to seek, research and speak the truth about important events shaping the turbulent age we live in today. Thank you both and God protect you from harm.

[@razvanyke]

Fantastic Podcast, thank you both for the effort and the great wisdom shared !

[@WoFDarkNewton]

32:21 This is a really interesting point. You may engage in a behavior because of how much it matters to you, but you may instead do so because of how much it matters to your peers. Your beliefs are an incentive structure for your actions, but your peers’ beliefs also become an incentive structure for your actions. This is why the company you keep is so important. They don’t have to change your beliefs directly. They can change your actions, and eventually your beliefs will follow

[@meeks4004]

I feel this is the exact reason why many young people claim abnormal sexual orientations..

[@obamalastname34]

@@meeks4004 woah maybe your into something.

[@rosemoore5678]

Dr. Peterson, I found your description of Tinder so profound. I couldn't agree more with your insight about Tinder producing hyper successful predatory males and reducing rejection. While it doesn't surprise me that only 4% of women swipe right compared to 60% of men, it drives this viewpoint home. Great episode, Dr. Peterson and Rob Henderson!

[@sebastianwallin3726]

''The women I know in their early 30s are just delusional,'' he says. ''I sometimes seduce them and sleep with them just because I know how to play them so well. It's just too easy. They're tired of the cock carousel and they see a guy like me as the perfect beta to settle down with before their eggs dry out … when I get tired of them I just delete their numbers from my cell phone and stop taking their calls … It doesn't really hurt them that much: at this point they're used to pump & dump!'' it will just create a lot more unhappy people. People's greed and high ego is creating lack of love and respect. In history relationships was settled by family or love experts (religion). Nowadays we let a lot of people that lack wisdom choose partners that also lack wisdom. Maybe we shouldn't continue making the same mistakes but let others help out.

[@starfiremonkey7839]

The fetish with Alpha males and Beta males on the internet still mind boggles me, so do the terms that many of them use. Today, your relationship experts are generally these internet gurus who will tell you what you want to hear for both the sexes or your friends who aren't doing any good either. It's become a war between the sexes rather than the Harmony that needs to be there.

[@sebastianwallin3726]

@@starfiremonkey7839 I don't think the equilibrium is set at harmony. How can you have harmony when female selection is like capitalism on coke? Female preferences and selection has a naturally higher gini coefficient than the most inequal society of this world. Listen to this Arundhati. Every female only wants the absolute best of males. In an economic understanding this would be like giving a very few people all the possesions of all wealth and they have to pay 0 taxes. While those that owns nothing has to pay a high tax rate. Religion has for a very long time been in conflict with this cynical behavior and that's why it introduced monogamy. Allowing everyone to pass on their genetics is the idea of monogamy. It's socialism.

[@lightghost7524]

@Rose Moore That's a long way of saying you can't get laid with those "predatory males" 🤣

[@rosemoore5678]

@@lightghost7524 That was an immature statement. I’m married and do not utilize those apps. I was simply agreeing with what was said on the podcast and it resonated with what I hear from my single friends.

[@zgoat4127]

I just found you and started listening to you today. Im a recovering addict and am still having a hard time finding myself and my place in life. Thank you so much for your perspective. This channel and your wisdom is something I really need right now and believe I just stumbled onto it for a reason. Thank you again

[@zarathustratv9114]

God bless, keep on fighting

[@xavierpark5937]

Be strong , keep going .

[@leahbrening1101]

Never feel like you are alone. Glad you found Dr. Peterson. He is a breath of fresh air and full of common sense and decency. Keep up the good work!

[@MrDrProfessorrSirBro]

You got this bro.

[@typeorulz]

Way to go! All the best to you in all you do. ❤🙏

[@aa1903]

I can relate so much to this guy when it comes to my college experience and having come from a lower status background. My peers were anxious and depressed due to the competition they felt.

[@brainiac31K]

This discussion is so sane it makes my head hurt (and my heart ache for a society that cannot fathom the observations presented here).

[@bijoumwaura3735]

Watching from Nairobi, Kenya, East Africa. This conversation was incredibly insightful and had so many takeaways on the role of technology and its influence on society particularly on romantic interactions. I have taken down so many notes and have grown so much in my perspectives in ways that will undoubtedly shape my character. Thank you so much Dr Jordan B. Peterson and Rob Henderson! Looking forward to following Mr Henderson's content and career on social media and wait eagerly for his KZbin channel.

[@dab_tube]

wakenya mko kila mahali kwani

[@mosepro.1423]

Hahah wakenya zii, wakierere

[@essentialism549]

@@dab_tube thought mi ndo wa kwanza kuwatch

[@bijoumwaura3735]

@@dab_tube 🤣🤣🤣Eeh! Tuko!

[@bijoumwaura3735]

@@essentialism549 🤣🤣🤣zii

[@dirtyky9309]

Blessed to be born in the same time frame of prof P. Good talk, Rob Henderson. Luxury beliefs, this pin points what I have been struggling with speaking with my blm/acab friends.

[@MonaMarMag]

What you are doing is very useful and necessary . Thank You both very much . God bless You .

[@Daysdontexist]

Jp put the nail on the coffin when he said virtual polygamy," it's truly limitless and a liberal perversion.

[@proudtobeme1ashkente]

Think you might've meant "hit the nail on the head", meaning he described something very accurately. "Putting the final nail in the coffin" means to do or say something that is the last thing needed to make something or someone go away, fail or die.

[@halvey8518]

@@proudtobeme1ashkente Yeah once I read his full sentence I basically changed the wording to hitting the nail on the head. I really try to focus on the point and idea rather than just the vocabulary. Which is probably why my vocabulary selection is very poor😂😂

[@TurlochOTierney]

Met my wife online. Her policy was meet up in person as soon as possible to judge each other. Online interaction 'does not count'. Been married since 2003.

[@stevenschiro1838]

That's a good idea.

[@kevindm1588]

​@@rhymeswithteeth all you did was warm her up to meeting which has nothing to do with the meeting itself,chemistry happens in real life,not online, if she was honestly looking to meet someone you wouldnt need to change her mind with online banter, which is a waste of time it doesnt guarantee anything it may work if one party is hesitant, but if both are looking to meet its a waste of time,you can ''hit it'' well online and then meet then what?nothing is guaranteed,the chemistry happens in real life, not through a screen

[@kriztinmoller]

Thank you Dr Peterson for everything you do 🙏💚✨

[@sterlgirlceline]

Stellar podcast episode! Thoroughly enjoyed this; thank you.

[@WatchWesWork]

Fascinating! I recall reading about the huge impact on French dating and romantic culture after the first world war when half the men of marital age had been killed. I think you can still see the effects.

[@blazeofhazyglory]

I would be very interested in reading about that. Would you happen to have the title?

[@shivanshtyagi3254]

That sounds quite interesting. Can you provide any link or name of the study.

[@Xenochrome]

Link pls

[@WatchWesWork]

Sorry, that was long ago, but there are several books and studies on the issue. I've seen estimates that the reduction in birth rates during and after the war resulted in more population loss than casualties of the war itself.

[@nikstalwart]

Try post-WWII Soviet Union. You'll have one (possibly maimed) soldier returning to a village of only women.

[@mariotrujillojr.7039]

Can't believe I almost passed this one up, interesting and important information was discussed and much more going on beneath the surface of our daily issues. Makes me concerned for the youth whose necessary life experiences are being manipulated by these organizations for financial gain.

[@piqshe]

I loved the conversation and learned much from it! Thank you for sharing your thoughts. We may not agree on every point but I appreciate the opportunity to listen to you, learn from you and understand where you are coming from.

[@Michi85387]

I'm happy Rob made it coming from a humble background. Psychologists need to have broader life experiences. How can they proclaim to understand the human mind when they've been sheltered in school & a comfortable life for the most part.

[@georgebunny1910]

Your word is a lamp for my feet, a light on my path. Psalm 119:105 I'm glad I had a religious upbringing. I would've been so lost these couple of years.

[@noahhecker6672]

I refuse to use dating apps anymore. The way I see it, either I’ll meet someone the real way or not at all, and that’s just fine with me

[@joanclawford8964]

I'm there too.. !

[@wildeirishpoet]

Maybe you two should meet :-)

[@joanclawford8964]

@@wildeirishpoet very good, lol... 😂

[@stevenschiro1838]

I hear ya, but at least for me it's hard to meet people in real life. Being in the bay area, most of my friends / family have moved out all over the place because it's so expensive here

[@margaretmeyncke3592]

Great conversation. The pursuit of truth marches on!

[@zariyavera]

Eye opening and intriguing discussion and ideas! At 1:17:03 Another social effect that I'm seeing is that in addition to having children being seen as a choice and the woman having to take unequal responsibility for that is an extension to both parents. In American society now, I see the discussion rapidly shifting from a view of parenthood and having and raising children being a joyful, wonderful thing for society and our community which is worthy for us all to support, to now people instead jump in and say that was the parent's choice, nothing to do with themselves, and they don't want "their money" i.e. tax dollars to go towards supporting families, and keeping children fed, healthy, and out of poverty. This shift in view is a travesty for the well being of our society and communities. Note: I think this discussion would be better if Jordan did not cut off and speak over Rob so much. That made it harder to listen to and I thought Rob wasn't provided the space to fully flesh out his ideas and train of thoughts as much since Jordan was controlling the conversation direction more.

[@marinavasquez8813]

Agree

[@torihaisha5497]

Mr Henderson speaks a lot of sense and he has a very tidy room 👀👍🏼

[@imnotbrian]

God bless you Jordan Peterson. I cannot tell you how important these conversations are. Words cannot cover how impactful you have been on my life, you are the mentor I wish I had earlier in my life. All I can say is that you’ve made me clean my room and I’ve found the meaning in my life.

[@prodigalknitter1]

I love that he is stating this truth. When i was in college in 1983, my experience was similar. While I saw these disparities I didn't know that it was systemic, institutionalized and generational.

[@abdielmoises]

Amazing conversations as always! Thank you JP!