Shadow of the Erdtree Critique

[@Theottree]

Just wanted to comment briefly on the patch thingy that dropped the same day as this video. Think it is very much worth noting that a lot of the changes to Radahn - particularly to the cross slash - are oriented around making him *rollable*. This speaks fairly significantly to From's design priorities. They want the boss to be rollable.

[@simsansong]

It's not that he was nerfed, he was just made fightable.

[@wingedassassin9999]

As someone who only played ds1 before, where using a shield was actually a viable strategy, i tried the same in elden ring. Oh boy i found out quickly that its not viable here. Also am i the only one who thinks an armored knight, rolling around, sometimes directly into attacks, to avoid them, just looks stupid? Anyways... Awesome video dude. Showed it to some of my friends who asked me what problems i had with elden ring, as you had articulated them better than i ever could.

[@simsansong]

@@wingedassassin9999 not visible? May I know what you were using? Because shields are vastly different in Elden ring.

[@wingedassassin9999]

​​@@simsansonguff...i would have to lie to you here. The last time i touched elden ring was almost a year ago. My point was more that using shield felt a lot more punishing in this game, in comparison to ds1. And rolling in comparison seems almost op. Like the game didnt really give me a reason to not rely just on my roll, and instead trying to block the attacks. Which is probably why i never seen people use shields in this game...ever. especially in boss fights

[@simsansong]

@@wingedassassin9999 boy do I have News for you then, because the most viable way of beating consort radahan was using a shield and rapier, which has a unique attack when guarding with a shield. The entire reason Shield's were so under utilized was because no one really experimented with them, lol. Plus there's multiple talisman that make Shield's really good, and even the deflecting hard tear from the dlc gives you the ability to perfect block, like the way you do in sekiro.

[@holy1to325]

Im incredibly disappointed Theo didnt start this video by sighing and saying he didnt wanna make this video

[@springbornluke3752]

He should have added “this game is like a 10/10 guys, this is just my opinion and all the issues are really minor nitpicks and Elden Ring actually has no flaws and deserves a 100/10 rating still.

[@doratheshade]

47:20 And once again another person that reached the same conclusion about what Matthewmattosis said in his video. If I wanted to play a game with this much action and movement, I'd rather go play Sekiro or DMC instead of Elden Ring. It's like the game is trying to be something that it has no technical capability of fulfilling. This is what people mean when they say "dark souls movement with sekiro enemies"

[@bedroombunny9529]

This video was so easy to understand. I miss when most video essays were like this.

[@nodot17]

Needs more preamble and piano

[@uneterostardust8233]

​@@nodot17and sad anime backstory

[@lordofthepizzapie9319]

And out-of-place political rants

[@Noonesbusiness]

I need to know more about his childhood

[@doratheshade]

But first we need to go back to the thing that started it all: The neolithic period.

[@Garrador876]

"Mr. Elden Lord, another critique has hit the Erdtree."

[@sebastiansuazo2734]

Shadowtree

[@spencerdevane7314]

This has to be the most devastating thing that's happened on this day, surely

[@been_rly_n2_paragliding_lately]

"I walked through blood & bones in the streets of Manhattan trying to find my brother... He was in Northern Canada"

[@CattoeYum]

@@been_rly_n2_paragliding_latelyheh blood and bournes

[@tropictiger2387]

58:15 The modulating your own difficulty thing is the worst part of Elden Ring for me. Getting to a boss and finding out you are over levelled is a terrible experience. The second worst part is how inconsitent bosses are. Sometimes they try to crush you and sometimes they just give up, its just RNG.

[@SkepticalBucketman]

- Random Fromsoft employee: Mr Miyazaki-san... - Miyazaki: Let me guess, a second Matthewmatosis video has hit the studio - Random Fromsoft employee: No sir, this time it was Theo´s - Miyazaki: Oh..

[@grandarkfang_1482]

Also Miyazaki: *_makes another poison swamp_*

[@ramrodbldm9876]

No one at fromsoft knows who Matthewmatosis is 😂. We wouldn't even know who he was if it weren't for "other youtubers" eg illusory wall.

[@Aster_Logos]

​@@ramrodbldm9876 Joke's on you, I only learned about Illusory Wall's existence long after Matthewmatosis!

[@penguindragon0155]

@@Aster_Logos I didn't even realize illusory wall has been around long enough for ramrod to have a cogent claim. (After checking, illusory wall's oldest videos seem to be about as old as matthew's dark souls 2 video)

[@blueblazer9991]

Absolutely delighted to see Fatalis get a shoutout in this That fight needs to be studied at length as an example of a developer who fuly understood the exact limits and possibilities of their combat and boss design

[@Fire_Claw_and_Wing]

Fatalis is probably one of if not the best dragon boss in any game. None from Fromsoft come even close, that's for sure.

[@yanribeiro7108]

It's my favorite boss of all time, what an amazing fight. Everything about the arena is useful in the fight too, unlike Elden ring's arenas which are nothing but flat ground with walls and sometimes shit terrain elevation.

[@Theottree]

Fatalis is pretty incredible. I have my share of friction-points with the fight, but that comes with how far they pushed the possibilities of World. Like, I don't usually like bosses enough to try to speedrun them, but here i am with a 10:01 Longsword Fatalis kill and an 11:14 with Greatsword. There's really a huge amount of learning just for that one fight, per weapon even. Prob the best dragon fight I've run into in a game. I do however have a personal soft spot for Azure Rathalos, Tempered specifically so you get more of a fight out of him.

[@yanribeiro7108]

@@Theottree Damn, loving world azure rathalos is a hot take and a half. I think he's very underrated, I love flying monsters in general, and people seem to underestimate how much you can still hit monsters, even if they're flying. They never fly out of reach of any weapon for extended periods, but still offers an extra challenge in dealing with a foe who entered a less vulnerable stance.

[@ghoulsome9483]

Damn, i stopped playing MHW at Furious Rajang because i felt like i had my fill of the game. Always hear a bunch of praise of Fatalis but never got to him

[@zachtaylor5312]

Difficulty itself isn’t the problem , it’s that there aren’t fun and engaging mechanics to deal with it. This roll/poke combat is outdated since the bosses keep gettin ramped up with each entry.

[@andreyserooky]

This and matthewmatosis's Lost Soul Art of Demon's Souls made it so much easier for me to put into words my very complicated feelings towards FromSoft's games. As a long time fan of the series, I was very frustrated by not being able to articulate my points precisely. Many times while watching this I've thought something like "Oh wow, that's why I felt like I did, I just never realised that was the reason." Wonderful work, Theo, I really hope you will continue making videos

[@parsa1372]

"This was my 911" -Theolbo Baggins

[@voicedrewxyz]

Legendary

[@ianhines2302]

This is the 9/11 of Elden ring

[@TrajGreekFire]

I really enjoyed Theo's 25 minutes long intro about twitter drama, his childhood with DeS and those damn Elitist Gamers with skits, it really made this video enjoyable

[@yanribeiro7108]

I loved the words on screen that repeat what he has already said. Although it lacked jarring transitions and awful structuring that separate his points in artsy fartsy ways. Lastly, it lacked the 1 HP voice coupled with inconsistent delivery. Outside of these few issues, solid video.

[@Tsmowl]

Opening with "*sigh* I didn't want to make this video" really set the somber mood that the subject matter deserves.

[@TrajGreekFire]

@@yanribeiro7108 talking that Soulsborne are his ex gf was a bit much but I understood his point pretty well, let's hope the alt right on r/mauler will not dogpile on him for this

[@IAOIceland1984]

@@TrajGreekFire it's so tragic that his mother twitted his tipples when he was young, hope he gets over the psychological trauma soon...

[@thebestbuckethead]

@@IAOIceland1984 You gotta be honest, though. When he said that Dark Souls is the only thing that brings him joy in life, it hit hard.

[@MrFatLipx]

The most frustrating part of modern Fromsoft game discourse is that any time anyone brings up the garbage nature of a lot of the boss design nowadays, some dude that died to the boss 72 times using a greatshield with two summons and 33 spirit ashes will swoop in and condescendingly claim everything is fine and if you have a problem, you're just salty and bad at the game. Having an actual critical discussion around Souls nowadays is literally impossible, simply due to the fact that games are "hard", so if you struggle, it must just be on you, and it can never be due to objective poor design. From could literally create a boss with a one frame grab that instantly kills you, deletes your save file, steals you credit card info, and reaches through the screen to punch you in the mouth, and there would still be droves of morons lining up to say "nah bro just get gud". Swaths of the population place a strange sense of pride and ego on the fact that they beat a Souls game once, and their struggle NEEDS to be validated. That boss they spent 52 hours beating HAS to be a well designed, fair challenge that they were just sick enough to overcome, because otherwise it calls into question their entire bizarre sense of self-worth around these games. Toxic as hell to engage with.

[@Dabedidabe]

This describes incredibly well how the road to 10/10 for this game must go psychologically. xD It's fine to enjoy it, but the defense is often so unreasonable...

[@gameplayer42069]

I find people being proud of beating a video game pretty sad and cringe ngl, it's a video game bro, it was made to be beaten. It doesn't make you special or different at all

[@kindlingking]

No, it's only second worst thing. The actual worst one is the fact that the entirety of game design discourse haa dwindled to just "boss hard good, boss hard bad". Like, nobody is talking about progression systems, dungeons, enemy design, enemy encounters, environmental storytelling, secrets, hidden paths, etc. Everyone just keeps arguing about bosses, as if there isn't about a hundred hours of other content around them. The best we have are arguments about skibidi fragments, but this too boils down to "makes bosses too hard/easy", instead of focusing on it's actual problem - being an artificial padding that serves no purpose other than making you waste hours searching open world every time you want to replay this DLC. It's as if there isn't anything else worth talking about in this game and worse - people are okay with that.

[@kindlingking]

​@@gameplayer42069I'd say there are challenges and games beating which can be considered impressive. But then again when doing challenges the only one you have to prove anything to is yourself. Too bad a lot of people don't understand this. Souls community used to be a nice spot for challenge and speed runners, now it's mostly just elitists and crybabies.

[@gameplayer42069]

@@kindlingking I personally found annoying how empty the vast map felt yeah, full of pointless crafting items and redundant weapon upgrade materials I no longer need by that point. Making even regular enemies insanely annoying to fight, whoever put like 20 of the pest thread lobsters on the same small valley really needs to take a step back. The fire knights, hornsent and that insane dancing dude with the circle blades just reinforce the "just run past everything" attitude people been having for years, and that's why now every enemy has a roll catch or some move designed to catch you while running away

[@Rom859]

Excellent video Theo. I'd like to add that I LOVE landing a single hit on the boss after dodging a 10-hit combo string. Truly remarkable.

[@aa6731]

"You guys are landing hits?"

[@Ghorda9]

just jump attack or position better, people with this complaint haven't learnt a thing since DS3

[@liquidreality472]

@@Ghorda9 sad, isn't it?

[@kennethfocarino7075]

@@Ghorda9yeah jump what? When? What position? The problem isn’t that there isn’t a solution, the problem is that the solution is only found EXCLUSIVELY by trial and error, against something designed to trick you. It’s like taking a test made up of exclusively trick questions. There is barely any helpful information before any of these attacks land, that the only way to find the optimal solution is to behave erratically after every attack to find the best answer, or just panic roll and keep your distance until you notice the upmost safe window. It lulls you into barely surviving until you get a hit in, then running away. Why try something different when it might fuck up the run? I’m very new to SoulsLikes, Elden Ring was my first, a few months ago when the DLC came out. I went back and played DS3 after beating Elden Ring and the DLC multiple times. I didn’t like it for other reasons, but the bosses had so much more logic and reason with why they’re doing the attacks, and how to answer these attacks when you see them the first time. Lies Of P takes this to the perfect degree. I can’t tell you how many times I perfect blocked something the first time I saw them simply due to excellent context clues given by clear animations and good camera work. Yes there’s usually a different answer besides roll forever, but it’s the most tedious BS to try and find that. Everything in the DLC is a “haha, gotcha!” Troll move. The ONLY ways to win are brute force with OP stuff, or straight up memorization. This level of weird “yes daddy I’ll behave correctly next time” masochism is not fun at all. I was never once happy with defeating a DLC boss, I was just relieved that it was over. The world building, rpg progression, vibe and some of the bosses allow me to not hate the DLC and enjoy many parts of it. However, especially after playing Lies Of P, I’ll really never enjoy Elden Ring as much as I used too. I was so late to the party I didn’t know how shitty the party actually became, I was just happy to be there.

[@Marikus_Eternal]

Skill issue

[@mrq1]

About halfway through, had to stop since my lunch was over, but I will pick it up later. Thoroughly enjoying your presentation Theo. Straightforward, no BS approach to a systematic dismantling of this DLC's flagrant errors.

[@mrq1]

Aaand, I finished. Bravo Theo, bravo. Really enjoyed this.

[@Dantarn]

The worst part of seeing this really well constructed critique of not only Erdtree but also Elden Ring is that people are going to say "Yeah well this person did a no hit run so you just need to git gud" as if it dispels all of the issues that the game has.

[@Sam-lf3hn]

I think the "get good" rebuttal has low-key poisoned the souls community into immediately disregarding any and all criticisms of the souls borne series. Even if said criticisms are valid.

[@thebigdoginthisbitch4733]

The game is the best game ever

[@Mj0Skyver]

@@thebigdoginthisbitch4733 Mhm.

[@boshwa20]

Yeah, by that logic, Bed of Chaos is a good boss because I killed it without dying

[@dorn0531]

Correct. Just because Jimmy Octo-Hands beat every Souls game with a Donkey Kong Bongo & his eyes shut, doesn’t make the game well designed. DS1 was a flawed but fun game. DS2 was 2 steps forward, 1 into a bear trap. DS3 was good but already started down the Shadow of the Erdtree road. Elden Ring is a mess with a few highlights. I’ve beaten all 4 & enjoy all 4 to various points but they are all flawed. Fromsoft need a complete rethink before the next game.

[@SphereS7]

Messmer teached the Hippo how to delay the first head slam and then deliver the second one right after. This is what they teach in the Elden Boss School. It's actually written in the description of the Shard of the Hippo Turd that you can gather somewhere in some random shack in the world. You people just don't understand the deep lore.

[@thegodofvodka]

I have been realizing lately that despite liking the game a lot, I have been blitzing through bosses and areas so that I'd engage with their mechanics the least, as if I felt like they were wasting my time. This was a very well constructed video, I hope to see more of this.

[@MrFr2eman]

First time I hear someone talk about the issues of level and encounter design in Elden Ring, especially in legacy dungeons. How everything turned into a simple loop of having a few minor fights in between numerous checkpoints with no flow in progression due to availability of fast travel. There's even quite a few places that you can't leave without teleporting, something that was a rarity in older games, but comes in dozens in Elden Ring, making it feel quite disjointed at times. Something I would add to it is how the focus on the combat loop stripped levels of any mechanical identity. Since it's all about basic combat now, all legacy dungeons play exactly the same, despite looking different. No level shrouded in darkness like Tomb of the Giants, no level full of traps like Sen's Fortress or all the environmental hazards and narrow paths of Blight Town. As mentioned in the video, some side dungeons, even though not amazing, had a bit more going on. Reminded me how in the base game, I found the Carian Manor Tower feeling a lot more magical due to the unexpected twist of it flipping upside down, along with fighting a mage, that actively tries to stay away for some time. And how it compared to the Academy of Raya Lucaria that only had more basic combat to offer with some rooftop platforming, same as every other legacy dungeon in the game.

[@La0bouchere]

It's very disappointing seeing fast travel nullify the cool interconnectedness of huge levels like stormveil and bellurat, and then not be able to warp out of a random cave without going back up the elevator. Dark Souls made shortcuts feel amazing, ER makes them feel pointless. It's also crazy to see how good some of the levels in BB still are. Central Yharnam and the Forest both have massive amounts of varied enemy encounters that interact to produce different approaches from the player. Central Yharnam in particular feels like it's a decade ahead of anything in ER when it comes to enemy design but it's actually the opposite. ER doesn't even use roaming hoards to create tension and yet those were all over BB's starter level. In fact, Yharnam, Forbidden Woods, Nightmare Frontier, and Cainhurst are all much better than any level in ER, and even some of the oldest levels (4-1 and 4-2 from DeS, Painted World in DkS) compete with ER level design, even when you account for fast travel breaking them.

[@Avarn388]

I can’t wait. Your videos are awesome and every time I watch one I feel more educated on game design and why mechanics work the way they do. Thank you.

[@W.icarus]

My dear friend, it's so nice to share these ideas and opinions with someone else. Sometimes I really ask myself how people can't see the huge flaws of this game, and the enormous potential that this game and his DLC had. Instead, we got a DS3 mod but open world. I'm not saying everything is bad but I really expected something more, something really new. On a closing note, congratulations for the accuracy and meticulous study on the topics of this video. Keep on the good work!

[@ramrodbldm9876]

That broad is ug

[@PANCAKEMINEZZ]

Because Fromsoft games, specifically the ones that play like Dark Souls 3, as that was the runaway success into the mainstream, have entered the zeitgeist as masterfully made games that are also hard. So every normie who jumps on that bandwagon will take that perception that they are masterful games, and then add on they are supposed to be difficult, and assume "oh these aren't flaws, it's supposed to be this!"

[@micshazam842]

I definitely agree that the combat system of this and similar games has some real limitations. When the only way they can keep challenging players further is by giving bosses longer combos, more AOE's and more deceptive animations, nothing interesting can really be achieved by continuing down this path. I'd love for souls likes to either start leaning more in an action game direction, or more in the RPG direction. Pick one, then flesh it out. Stamina bars + rolling are kinda played out, unless you focus on interesting level design and itemization, instead of ever increasing difficulty.

[@elolawynladriel]

Roll Souls - Prepare to be Catched Edition

[@xander_21]

Video releases on September 11. My response. My elder lord! A second dragon has hit the erdtree!

[@ramrodbldm9876]

Haha haha so funny. You look fruity af

[@TheScourg3nz]

Shadow of the Erdtree basically made me realise that my patience in the Souls games has been worn down to nothing, and watching this video really solidifies this feeling.

[@CaptJackAubreyOfTheRoyalNavy]

Go back and play Dark Souls 3 again if you haven't played in several years and if you haven't played it a ton of times already. I went back and played it again after 8 years and it's so good and honestly much better than Elden Ring.

[@Spaceodin0]

Replaying Demons Souls remake on PS5 made me realize how much i miss the more focused, heavy design of combat

[@animeguitarguy]

Elden made me question if I was starting to dislike Souls games but going back, all the others are just even more enjoyable due to contrast

[@Grandmaster-Kush]

I go back to KF4 / DeS / DS1 and DS2 often because I am not becoming younger, and don't have the time to memorize movesets, I also enjoy the slower pace (and of course years of experience / gameknowledge to abuse if I get stuck)

[@JegodDaMulestia]

1:08:45 - That was my sentiments exactly when finished base ER. Before, I use to think during my first playthrough: "oh, I'm gonna try this in my next playthrough". But with ER, the last half of the game was so miserable that at the end I was not interested anymore. Why slog through this again? The unique experience of the souls series is definetely lost for me.

[@donradkos6655]

And on this very september eleventh

[@xander_21]

My elder lord!, a second dragon has hit the erdtree!.

[@Schlorb-Lord-of-Schlirb]

Reminds me of that Tragedy

[@t.h.4377]

You know, with all the blood and guts?

[@pinkerproductions7420]

​@@Schlorb-Lord-of-Schlirb I walked through blood and bones

[@SixWings]

While we may have some disagreements and our general enjoyment of the game and DLC differ quite a bit, I really appreciate that you've highlighted a lot of the issues that was overlooked by most content creators. Issues I've had with the game from the very start.

[@MrFallenone]

Ah the same day Radahn got big nerfs. Its like poetry. It hits the towers twice.

[@ramrodbldm9876]

It 100% wasn't cause of this small youtuber I promise you that

[@Teh8Swords]

@@ramrodbldm9876 They didn´t even say that AT ALL.

[@AkhileshShankar9]

It’s also worth mentioning that ninja gaiden and nioh are combat action games featuring interconnected worlds and no animation cancels during combat. It would do them better to learn from them as they have much more variety and options on a base level while still being balls to the walls a hardcore action games. If combat is the reward for exploration, Update it.

[@theatheistbear3117]

Nioh and it’s sequel did more to evolve Souls combat than FromSoftware has done in over a decade. It’s pretty disappointing.

[@MakioGoHardio]

Nioh and NG have animation cancels tf? Did you even experiment with their combat at all.

[@yanribeiro7108]

​@MakioGoHardioThere's also no Interconnected "World", but he is right that they're much better games than every souls game from made past 1. Nioh 2 specifically.

[@MakioGoHardio]

@@yanribeiro7108 Dark Souls 1 and DeS are pretty bad games, bad hitboxes and overall lack of polish plague the games throughout, and the replayability is bad due to the combat being bad. I prefer Nioh 2 a lot more, and Ninja Gaiden is equally as good a Nioh 2 but the games are aiming for different things, it’s just preference not ones better than the other. NG1 also has great level design, DS and Fromsoft are just casual NG.

[@yanribeiro7108]

@MakioGoHardio Demon souls and dark souls 1 being bad games is quite a funny take. One may call it abysmal, even. Sure, gameplay-wise they're decent at best, but their world, level design, soundtrack, and Non-mainstream-directed design is much better than nioh 1 and 2. And I'm one of those people who thinks nioh 2 has pretty good level design and soundtrack, to the point of finding it underrated. I don't think you're giving anywhere near enough credit to all of the design present in those two games outside of raw gameplay.

[@Jonas-ob2sh]

I think my issue with feints and delays is that it's used too often in ER that it has circled back around to being predictable when the intention was to make bosses unpredictable with them. For some enemies that are established to be highly skilled/intelligent it makes sense to use them a few times, but when every enemy, even non-sentient zombies and giant crabs are using them, it starts to be immersion breaking and exhausting to learn them.

[@13JackDiamond]

Theo thoroughly and precisely pointing out the flaws and issues of a not perfect game that has a pretty aggressive fan base is the only thing that brings me joy in life.

[@Daniel_C_Griffin]

I actually hate the Elden Ring fanbase. They took the smug elitism of the Dark Souls fans and cranked it up to 11 and turn rabid if you dare even suggest that Elden Ring is not the most perfect game ever devised by our lord and saviour Michael Zaki.

[@13JackDiamond]

@@Daniel_C_Griffin They're honestly what killed my enjoyment for ER funny enough. Any issue or criticism I had was always met with so much venom from them. Their toxicity turned my love of a flawed game into a tolerance and then a dislike for ER completely.

[@yanribeiro7108]

@@13JackDiamond I, similarly, hate the game's reception way more than the game itself.

[@Krakain]

You let the community change your view on the gameplay? ​@@13JackDiamond

[@Stanzbey69]

@@13JackDiamond ur pathetic for letting a loud minority ruin your enjoyment of an entire game. Stop being chronically online. If i listened to the loud minority of joseph anderson fans/critics, i wouldn’t be able to enjoy anything at all.

[@MrLamorso]

46:25 Very well put. Watching no hit runs of Soulslike games generally always boils down to: dodge for 20 seconds straight -> squeeze in a jump attack -> rinse and repeat On the other end of the spectrum, monster hunter speedruns frequently have me saying "Wait, you can get off a full True Charge Slash during *that* attack string? How did someone ever figure out the timing and positioning?"

[@Theottree]

I learned so much from watching speedrunners while trying to speed up my own Fatalis kills. Best part is many of them had different strats, and there was often a pretty substantial execution barrier to being able to do what they did - be it in terms of knowledge, or mechanics. Like for example as a Longsword player when I was trying for Fatalis pseudo-speedruns (I have achieved sub-10mins, which ig counts?), it took me a long, long time to adjust my play such that I was not triggering topples to all 4s with a Roundslash as frequently, as doing that meant losing out on a good Helm Breaker opening. That Helm Breaker itself being not the easiest to land; not as hard as some others like getting the enrage roar Helm Breaker down perfectly, but it was not easy in terms of knowledge or mechanical precision. Had a similar experience with Greatsword - saw speedrunners finding TCS angles I could never reach, and their cleaner play let them punish openings like the cone firebreath harder than I could, because they were in position so much faster. Monster Hunter speedrunning is really neat and I enjoy how much can be learned from it - even with the reality that it''s not uncommon for the monster to not be allowed to do much at all.

[@MrLamorso]

@@Theottree It feels like whereas Elden Ring and soulslike games are designed around rolling, Monster Hunter is designed around punish windows with the mastery coming from how many openings you can create with your positioning and timing and how greedy you're able to be. Having said that I definitely don't love how much of the MH speedrunning meta is centered around stunlocking the monster via trips and part breaks, even though knowing roughly how much damage it takes to break certain parts and cause those staggers, and planning your moves and positioning to maximize the damage you get during those windows is undeniably a form of mastery. I'd honestly really love to see more monsters "adapt" to the player's actions like you talked about with boss feints. The only example I can really recall is back on PSP when Teostra and/or Lunestra would actually track the direction you were running in during their charges rather than just running in a straight line; you had to essentially run in one direction and then juke them out at the last second (just like actual prey animals to do escape predators) to get them to miss you so it actually felt like they were reacting to what you were doing rather than simply going "I am now going to charge in a straight line now and you are going to roll to one side, because this is a videogame and that's how charges work in video games"

[@lappysanchez7517]

​@@MrLamorso "wait you can get off that ash of war/sorcery/incantation during that attack?? You can position yourself to charge an attack in the middle of the combo? How did anyone figure out that timing?" Is absolutely something many people think and say during ER no hit runs though? Literally just watch Ongbal. No hits definitely don't consist of just squeezing in jump attacks every 20 seconds, you're just straight up objectively wrong.

[@La0bouchere]

@@lappysanchez7517 They're correct. I've watched ongbal and there's not much more than "oh you can just get another attack in here". They exaggerated, but that should be obvious. And no-hit runs in ER are comically centered around being safe and waiting for openings. That's the core design of FS bosses.

[@lappysanchez7517]

@@La0bouchere This rings true for rune level 1 runs where you play as safe as possible, but otherwise no they're certainly wrong, there's plenty of moments in the middle of combos where you can get a free hits in and finding punish windows thanks to good timing, positioning, low profile, jumping or movement from ash of wars/spells. Through mastery it absolutely allows you to play greedily to create those windows. Ongbal's videos also prove the general sentiment in this comment section wrong that long ash of wars or spells are impossible to use without being hit. People just don't like that they don't get to spam their fancy move and win, they have to actually think. "Malenia after the DLC", "The best DLC boss", "Dancing with the Lion", and "Gaius is a good boss" are pretty good videos by Ongbal showcasing all this, I think the Malenia one especially showcases creating punish windows and the greed you can get away with through mastery of timing and positioning. But hey I can also just diminish what they say and go "Oh well in MH they just find an opportunity to get 1 extra hit in its nothing special" and act like the point I made is any good. Even if it was just 1, extra hits in Elden Ring obviously matter cause they contribute to staggering, and what does staggering achieve again? Right a free crit + you often push the boss to the ground which lets you have even more additional hits or a strong attack while they recover. So to make it clear, they're in fact wrong, cause the quote "Oh, you can get a fully charged [...] off in the middle of that attack string with the right timing and positioning? How did anyone figure that out" absolutely applies to Elden Ring as well. Ongbal's first Midra no hit at 3:03 has something like this as well.

[@Raitro_]

Finally, a video that fully expresses how I feel about how Elden Ring lost touch with the Souls-Formula. Much appreciate the section where you describe how attacks are designed to go against a player's intuition, punishing them explicitly for natural behavior. Felt that happened alot throughout this DLC and glad other's felt the same. FromSoft seem to have been more and more going into the limit of their system and have moved towards "difficult" and not necessarily the balance of "difficult and fun." The latter is what made their previous games great. More and more seems like they are trying to get difficulty for the sake of difficulty, and not what made games like Sekiro (my favorite of the series) and Dark Souls so beloved in the first place. This DLC honestly made me question whether FromSoft knows what makes a game of theirs "Good." And I'm deff skeptical for their next project that releases. Keep going on the vids Theo. Truly one of my favorite streamers :)

[@w84Drito]

I'm looking forward to having my opinions validated, let's go! Also, I love your style of communication, been waiting for this patiently, can't wait to listen to it tomorrow.

[@RussieDear]

When I triggered Relanna's second phase for the first time and she went to do the double moon shockwave thing, I had full HP and everything. The only other moon attack we see is Rennala, and its a somewhat slow projectile, so when I saw it I assumed it was going to be the same thing but two sent at slightly different timings so I'd have to avoid it differently. There was no way I could've known that it was a super fast ground slam shockwave juggle attack. From full HP it killed me instantly. I really hate moves in fights like that where if you miss you're just guaranteed dead the first time it happens. It's not fun having a forced gotcha moment death to learn attacks. Just needed to vent that frustration personally after the Rellana section.

[@Bistai949]

Great video. Does a good job at fleshing out some of the mechanical arguments Mathew made in his video and and does a lot to help explain some of the grievances and annoyances I've had with ER in particular. I especially liked the liked you had about boiling mechanics down.

[@Sparks7907]

Puts on lumberjack outfit alright lads time to cut down a skibidi tree

[@mudkip4ever]

This video honestly is the only video I think that comes closest to Mathewmatosises video, It's clear, concise, and isn't afraid to lay some harsh truths without resorting to an aggressive tone. The video really helped cement for me how best to describe my feelings on Fromsofts design philosophy since practically dark souls 2, and the friends of mine who love Elden ring who agreed to watch the video have come back to me to admit that it actually opened their eyes to problems they either couldn't see or just didn't want to see.

[@Dabedidabe]

It's actually nice to hear they're admitting to it. Most people go extra hard on defending everything. They are some real ones.

[@mudkip4ever]

@@Dabedidabe In fairness they went through a denial type of thing at first "Oh this guys criticism aren't that fair.." but within a few days most of them came back and said "Ok, maaaybe he has a point" and then within the week they admitted the video was spot on.

[@hyperbolicninja]

Well done Video, I really enjoyed it. While I feel differently about Shadow of The Erdtree than you do, I don't disagree with the things you've said. Having a conversation about feelings is always complicated and honestly not worth it. So instead I'll say again that while I disagree with some of the things you said, none of those disagreements are based on the facts you laid out and I really enjoyed your perspective on the DLC. Keep up the good work.

[@Sherm420]

This video makes me feel ok with having the opinion I’ve had on elden ring as a whole. I’ve spoken with a couple friend about this, love dark souls 1, 3, bloodborne, and while I enjoyed elden ring in the beginning, I lost interest as I continued playing rather quickly, there were things about it I just didn’t enjoy and made me not want to replay the game. This is everything in dark souls 3 magnified by 100 and it’s not a good thing. Fantastic and in depth video. I’m subscribing and hope to see more from you in the future.

[@whirvos713]

Happy to see this video finished and released. You put a lot of effort into this one and it shows.

[@zachtaylor5312]

I love your part about how the game doesn’t have transferable skills from one boss to the next. You go from one boss to the next just learn when to attack and when to dodge. Beating one boss serves no knowledge when going to another. A game like Doom Eternal for example builds on its mechanics and what you learn can be taken into any encounter. By the end of the game you have a huge amount of knowledge and ways to take on encounters even on the first try.

[@DrNightbringer]

To make a music analogy, for me, learning a difficult boss in a game with good combat is like learning to play and memorize a difficult song on the piano While learning a boss in Elden Ring is like memorizing 5 pages of random notes on the piano.

[@IAyala1010]

Elden ring = Boulez Piano sonatas

[@anonymousperson8903]

@@IAyala1010 Boulez piano sonatas are literally the opposite of random notes...

[@IAyala1010]

@@anonymousperson8903 My cat played it by running across my keyboard

[@anonymousperson8903]

@@IAyala1010 I'm not a fan of his sonatas (although I enjoy some of his later works), but I know many who are.

[@DelusionalDunmer]

Playing a difficult, well designed boss is like playing Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata while Elden Ring is like trying to play fucking Rush E

[@dualwieldroxas358]

This is a well thought out critique, Theo. I will admit, i felt some frustration at your comments on the EFAP, and when i saw this video, i thought it would just be bashing and antagonizing fans. But no, this was a very constructive and observant critique that i think anyone who is a fan of the games should take the time to listen to. I 100% agree that the roll-catch and "gotcha" moves from the main game have gotten a lot worse in the DLC. Messmer may be a favorite boss of mine, but he definitely punishes intuitive gameplay on a first time fight. Many of his attacks have bizarre patterns that only encountering the first time will teach you how to deal with them. I personally hope they do not continue with this mentality of bosses needing to "trick" the player.

[@gobs379]

The thing is, this is nothing more or less than Theo was trying to communicate on that EFAP episode, he just didn't have the time to explain in detail and the rest of the panel weren't willing to connect the dots on his shortened argument. I've been waiting for this video ever since.

[@kari2570]

Coming from Dark Souls to Elden Ring, the way bosses would just pause halfway through an attack just to catch you rolling was such an annoying way to increase difficulty.

[@Stanzbey69]

@@kari2570 maybe exercise some patience. Why do you think you never have to recover stamina? Delayed attacks. + u can just hit them during tje windup. It’s an infinitely better system than the mindiess dodge, r1 in ds3. Allows for way more skill expression.

[@kari2570]

@@Stanzbey69 I never said I can't fight them, I've finished them game many times over, it's just annoying. Previous games you could react when you see them attack, but now they just pause halfway through an attack because FromSoft knows people like to dodge. You are punished for reacting logically to an attack.

[@Stanzbey69]

@@kari2570 learn the timing then. The best and most challenging and rewarding bosses have always had tricky timings. Not a problem then, not a problem now

[@Niyariii]

Thought Theo forgot about the video, excited for this

[@TomatoSaucer]

Theo hates this game too much to forget it

[@buttermink2153]

​@@TomatoSaucer He has literally called it his white whale.

[@Glanzended]

Pretty refreshing to see some real critique of the boss design instead of blindly praising everything about the game like I've seen in other essays. You perfectly captured everything that frustrated me to hell and back about this DLC and even the base game. Personally I wish you had gone into more depth with each of the bosses and showed what did and didn't work about them. I don't think you mentioned Romina, Putrescent Knight, Metyr, Midra or Leda w/allies at all. Nothing else on Gaius or Radahn besides their most BS attacks. That's a minor nitpick in an otherwise fantastic video though.

[@Glanzended]

Do you by chance have your own Discord server that you talk more about the game in? I'd love to chat about it and maybe Monster Hunter too. I'm also curious to hear your opinion on Lies of P if you played it.

[@Theottree]

I don't have my own public discord at current no. Regarding Lies of P, I played about 40 minutes of it or so and it failed to grab me. It was fine enough, but I am at the point that a 'Souls-style' introductory section, or framework in general, turns me off quite fast. I was not enthused by walking around Bloodborne-adjacent locales spamming to death enemies that couldn't fight back, then finding The Big Enemy and needing to maybe learn his attacks for a bit, etc etc etc. Can't really speak for or against the game's actual quality, but I just don't think I'm interested at this point

[@ramrodbldm9876]

​@Theottree you're a crying clown

[@ramrodbldm9876]

​@@Theottree bum

[@michaeleddy4101]

the general issue that I have is that the systems that made dark souls what it was relied heavily on the environmental and encounter designs. ill take undead burg as an example. In UB you have to travel and leave your safe zone in a way that it can actually be difficult to go back to fire link. so youre playing cautiously and then bam! theres already encounter the drake without being able to fight him. you feel like you're in over your head. getting a bonfire was really getting a tiny safe zone because you couldn't return to the old safe zones. shortcuts aren't good because they're shortcuts, theyre good because they are bringing you back to the oasis. Then theres encounter design. Dark souls one tended to force you to think. boar fight is a good example and so is Taurus demon. you have to keep your head on a swivel. you always feel like the underdog and that's atmosphere. The fighting is best when it's in service of atmosphere. gaping dragon isn't deep mechanically but the sense of "what the hell?" when you run into it builds on the atmosphere and exploration.

[@FriedShrimp04]

Theo mentioning C. Radahn's unavoidable cross slash triple attack as a problem move, the day the game was updated to slow swings enough so the move is now easily dodgable with 3 normal timed rolls stings 😭 My man could not have been more unlucky with that

[@reaps912]

On the flipside, it kinda validates the critique, no?

[@SkereKelel]

Miyazaki saw the critique himself an ordered it to be fixed ASAP

[@FriedShrimp04]

@@reaps912 Yup. Nobody can say he was wrong about Radahn when even the devs seems to agree it was awful

[@I-ONLY-BUILD-MECHS-AND-DUSTERS]

@@FriedShrimp04 The teenagers defending that move legitimately have brain damage, and maybe me as well for even attempting to argue with them. There's this weird idea that souls somehow isn't a videogame and doesn't need to have stuff "normal" videogames have, like intended methods to pass obstacles, real basic design elements. These are the people who will complain about casuals coming into the series, yet it is they who seem to have not played many videogames or understand the underlying lexicons good ones come with. Of course that move needed to be changed. It was trivial, free punish for anyone using a greatshield (an already simple and easy build), and an almost guaranteed damage, 1 flask tax for anyone on a light build relying on rolls.

[@ExtremeMan10]

​@@I-ONLY-BUILD-MECHS-AND-DUSTERSPeople complaining about casuals coming into the series are mostly the newcomers themselves. Before DS2 released, souls series was obscure game genre that was on same way of popularity as bullet hells or visual novels. Hell, you could have buy Demon Souls back in 2008 in some random store for a few bucks amongst other small games on display, thats how little popular it was. Reason why the difficutly in older games was enjoyable was because the game let you pick your style, ANY style worked. In Elden Ring you are forced into style you dont want to play. For instance in DS2 I could have dual wield caestus and go to town, trade blows, tank boss attacks with high vigor and armor, in Elden ring? Ye armour is made of thin paper and you might get occasional jab at boss after three to four rolls. These new "fans" dont even know what made the old games special.

[@ManlyTear]

Thank you big time for this vid! I just watched it again, this time with a friend who was so stary eye'd about "THE PERFECTION OF SOTE, OMG PEAK EXPANSION!" and wondering why I had so many criticisms about it, even tho' I still enjoyed it quite a bit in the end ( cause I rly went out of my way to make a build where I had to roll as little as possible, but still requiring enough engaging gameplay so got was using Endure lots, sometimes Vow of the Indomitable, and ultimately hard deflect tear + carian thrusting shield - gave me more ways to tackle combat). But it felt like I was literally fighting against an un-fun design trying to make it fun, and that process was what actually made me fun. Where I to play more " standard " , doubt I'dve had too much fun. You bring up great points in ways I'd fail to express so this vid being out there can help open eyes of folks. Even as I was playing a game like Cyberpunk2077 recently, fighting one of the bosses, Oda, I was thinking why I had way more fun with that. Watching my vid of the fight after, it was cause I felt like I had more fun ways of skill expression. Like, he was this ninja corpo guy that jumped all over the place like a monkey at high speeds, yet you can do some quick thinking moves to stop/ delay him. When I stopped one if his retreats where he regens hp, with a grenade , that brief delay was enough for me to follow up with a combo of attacks & moves which felt very satisfying, like this entity acknowledges my presence rather than doing their own thing to look cool (what FS seems to be concerned nowadays, making their bosses look cool at all costs) in a formulaic manner which turns it into a memorization lesson. I was thinking how fun would it have been, if say... when Messmer delays his spear attack by dragging it on the ground, you could do some move to interrupt him, and I don't just mean the weird parry windows that work when an attack is physically already going through you , but something to specifically punish him too for it. Just like in any fight where there's a semblance of level playing field, someone attempt to do a faint by holding an attack for several seconds would be so incredibly stupid that they'd get rekt during it. The tracking's the worst thing too, IMO. I played DS1 for the 1st time this summer right after SOTE and was surprised how much LESS I was rolling, not only cause it costs way more stamina but simply cause I didn't need to as much. I could strafe so many things as bosses lacked the absurd looking, body-twisting, tracking. That's just one of the many points I talked to my friend on with your vid as sample, we went through most of 'em :) He didn't have much of a counter argument, lol. Again, GG for this, can forever use it as a point of reference with folks who just work on a cult-like mind, and there's a whooole lot of them in souls community... as you prolly know...

[@TheKAIGamesCo]

Fantastic video! It really helps to clarify things I've been arguing with people since the release of Elden Ring. This kind of rot has been present in more substance than I can tolerate since Dark Souls 2. Fromsoft have gone from wanting to challenge the player to wanting to kill the player at any cost. Thank you for making this. :)

[@PirateKingBoros]

This DLC broke me. I loved the first third of Elden Ring but at the end of this DLC I was tortured by Promised Consort Radahn until I genuinely didn’t ever wanna touch this game again. It’s sad.

[@PrincePICHAISUNDARARAJAN]

Yeah, I hadn't touched the game since after I beat the DLC several months ago as I couldn't find any reason to play it again, I was honestly tired. When I first saw Consort Radahn and his shenanigans, I almost thought it was satire.

[@Grandmaster-Kush]

For me the steep FPS drops (apart from the standard shader cache stuttering / traversal stutter) as soon as I gazed towards the waterfalls made me quit the game, told myself i'd jump back in when an optimization patch drops, still waiting.

[@R1J3H]

"fromsoft just wants to make action games" Seeing as AC6 was as good as it is Id say they should just take the jump

[@arijjavaid323]

Or sekiro lol. I don't get this complain that FromSoft can do only 1 type of combat system. Sekiro and Armored Core have different combat systems and they are some of the best designed combat systems.

[@MetalCaffeine56]

And Miyazaki has talked about Fromsoft having multiple games in development with other directors than himself, so it seems like they've already taken the jump and we'll just have to wait and see.

[@Grandmaster-Kush]

They should just get rid of the Souls / King's Field formula for their next game and try to do a DMC clone or Ninja Gaiden clone at this point or the halfway hybrid like Nioh 2, verticality, attack cancel, different combo movesets, juggling etc the players inputs are too stagnant for the enemies and bosses they are designing.

[@swisspunker94]

good that people still remember that Matthewmatosis video. ER is literally everything he feared the series would become

[@anonymousperson8903]

And good for us, as it's a masterpiece.

[@animeguitarguy]

​@@anonymousperson8903Probably in From's bottom 3 games

[@anonymousperson8903]

@@animeguitarguy ER = Sekiro = DS3 = Bloodborne > AC6 > DS1 > DS2 > DES.

[@thebigdoginthisbitch4733]

Elden Ring is the best game ever

[@thebigdoginthisbitch4733]

@@animeguitarguyElden Ring is leagues above Bloodborne and Dark Souls Keep crying

[@spacedoyster7686]

I miss the immersive elements that have been lost since the early Souls days. The currency made the most sense in Demon's Souls. Demons valued souls and losing yours led to a permanent death. You gained levels from the Maiden in Black using the souls that are spent to gain a level to strengthen your own soul. In Dark Souls, there was a consistent theme that the world you're in is dying, which was reflected through most of the bosses being folks who shaped the world being well past their prime. Gwyn was Hollow, Nito was having his strength sapped, Seath had gone mad and blind, the Witch of Izalith turned into a weird tree, ect. It reinforced the idea that the player character was such a small player in the world, considering they were still in great danger despite the world being on its last legs. Knowing that it took so much strength and skill to overcome this dying land gave me the impression that I would have been very inconsequential if the other residents of this world had been in their prime.

[@kindlingking]

It's not only that, it's also the fact that you weren't the first one, nor the tenth one, nor even a thousandth one who embarked on this journey. Hell, you even go to Lordran because other guy was going to, but got mortality wounded and instead offered this honour to you. And in Boletaria despite getting through the fog you actually die like the rest before you and are only brought back because you were a necessary tool for the Maiden in Black. This always bugged me how in Elden Ring tarnished are supposedly the lowest of the low, yet they're also special and practically all are chosen ones. People try so hard to call ER dark fantasy when it's obviously high fantasy and should've leaned into this more instead of reusing old narratives.

[@roberteriksen6434]

@@kindlingking Narratively, that was also one of my bigger gripes with ER. You plop into the world, and instantly: - Melina, most likely the daughter of literally God, takes a liking to you upon finding you unconsciously on the ground and gives you her magical and legendary horse - Words spread about you receiving the mystical horse, and Demigod + 1/3's Empyrean tracks you down, finds you interesting as well and gives you her magical bell as well Having a harem of goddesses literally tracking you down and showering you with powerful gifts, compared to the humbled fate of Oscar, is an insane contrast I just could never get myself around.

[@ennayanne]

I really appreciate you putting into words the things I've been feeling. this series has lost itself and most people are completely blind to it

[@x___________________]

Unpopular opinion but I hope they don’t make anymore souls like games maybe stuff like sekiro where it’s similar

[@troo_6656]

Very glad this project saw the light of day. I've been on the same side as Matt all those years ago, finding even DS 3 quite straining on my patience with the game mechanics. This was needed. Unofficial sequel to Lost Soul Arts of Demon's souls, not one many wanted to see but one that needs to exist. I am not sure if it was you or someone else but Elden Ring is Skyrim for people who think they are too good for Skyrim, wide as an ocean but shallow as a puddle

[@austin0_bandit05]

These bossee became a tedious checklist of memorization. I have to identify which attacks are positional even though they both come from neutral, absurdly and unintuitive delays, random pauses and slow-mo like Bayle freezing midair before dive bombing, unintuitive attacks that the intended way to dodge makes no sense, purposely misleading telegraphs, etc

[@Scowleasy]

Sote bosses aren’t fighting the player character, they’re fighting the player

[@Boots43096]

This is why I will always prefer demon souls because it actually tries to give the player a unique experience with every boss instead of basically just forcing them into the same trial and error memorization game every single time. The biggest strength of the early souls games in general was how they took certain video game conventions and spun them on their head to give you an experience unlike any other, whether it's patches tricking you as an NPC, the world tendency, the player losing half their health when they lose human form, the way sif is suddenly humanized near the end of his fight when he's crippled, astrea killing herself after you defeat her body guard, the tragic endings to the NPC questlines in DS1 and how npcs would get killed if you let a certain other one back into the nexus or firelink shrine. It was all so fucking cool, and it's all been buried under "THIS IS SO HARD OMG" when especially the EARLY souls' games were never that hard to begin with lol. They were like moderately difficult most of the time, and occasionally had big difficulty spikes in certain areas or bosses. IMO the only reason the souls games got that reputation was simply because they came out in a time when video games were dumbed down to hell for the casual market, think back to the ps3/xbox 360 cod days with regenerative health and obnoxious, insistent player guidance etc, and it's no wonder why they were seen as the second coming of christ when it came to difficulty.

[@christianbaker3564]

Gotta say man you put it perfectly. It's sad because if you ask people who don't play the games about them their first thought is "those really hard games." Fromsoft seems to think this is all they can market now, and the actual experience has really suffered.

[@darthdragonborn1552]

You mean cuz the bosses were easier lol

[@notsogrump777]

Very impressive and well argued video! I give it a 9/11

[@tomjames9681]

As someone who enjoyed the Devil May Cry video, I can safely say that Theo is on a track of massive improvement video to video. This was so elegantly assembled and easy to listen to, with every section being structured around relevant examples to the topic. No section was too dry or dense to where I struggled to maintain my attention towards the end. Theo’s style has also seemingly began to blossom, as this script felt more like Theo’s thoughts and feelings, and the scripting process were purely additive to each other. Lost Soul arts, The Longman’s Dark souls 2 series and now Theo’s Elden Ring critique make for a wonderful collective retrospective on the series. Overall, 7/10, it felt like the video was really missing an exasperated intro about how Theo didn’t want to make this video, and that everything he was about to say can’t change how you FEEL about a game and that it’s just all his opinion ;).

[@chibbertooth5521]

Appreciate all the hard work that went into this. At the rate you’re going the next video is going to be like 3 hours long!

[@PANCAKEMINEZZ]

Been waiting for this ever since hearing him rip the game apart on EFAP

[@Blizz3112]

I love how the fighting visuals show that Theo has quite some experience with Souls games, and its not just him making shit up...

[@gongal]

Still waiting for a proper Dark Souls 2 game. They need to make 10 steps back (not unlike what they do with their every new game), look back at what made Demon's Souls and Dark Souls special and start from the scratch. It seems like every time they go with another project (at least dark souls related) they abandon their previously amazing but underdeveloped ideas and go more and try going more ambitious (instead of fleshing out what worked) with each game becoming more and more visibly rushed, streamlined, focused on the least interesting parts of what made the originals so great and memorable.

[@theroguerider]

I was disappointed by the Manse as I had the frenzied flame when I went there. Puzzled that Torrent didn’t seem to care about the frenzied village, or the eye of Sauron like tower, but this area he’s gone. Making a HUGE area feel even bigger. Midrange made no comment to it, nothing changed on either playthrough when i had it and went to the manse, or had done it and then went to the three fingers. A BIG missed opportunity in my opinion. Second was The Shaman Village. Village? 4 structures and only 2 have doors which are boarded up. This “village” provided all the Pot Shaman you find in the game? I felt like this being her village it should look like a little town of people she wanted to protect and it’s more like a hill with two houses… SMALL houses. For them to be such amazing environmental storytellers, these were two HUGE moments that told me nothing, or told me a story that makes me think most of it is all lies.

[@BenefitCounterbench]

I wouldn't mind the bad camera if the FOV could be adjusted. I get that low FOV was intentional in DS and BB, they were small linear games, but in ER, a long open-world with exceptionally many huge enemies with anime movesets, it's a big disservice.

[@Nereverine]

When Elden Ring first came out I genuinely felt crazy because of all the glazing it got from everyone I knew friends, coworkers, and family. Fromsoft taking their souls formula to the open world was a mistake and their failure with Elden Ring should be apparent to more people. Thanks for highlighting the issues with it and the many problems Elden Ring presents I no longer feel quite so insane.

[@joshlin8002]

I disagree completely. The open world was amazing. It was brilliant. Not perfect, but the sense of exploration was unforgettable. I want more of that, not less.

[@Nereverine]

@@joshlin8002 Good news, Elden Ring was very successful so they’ll make more games for you. Glad you liked it but to me it’s all sooooo empty. What is supposed to be engaging about empty fields with infinite hollow soldier reskins? The garbage loot? The lazy reuse of bosses? What is there to DO in the open world? If the answer is that the game is pretty then that means less than nothing to me. I’d agree to have all games look like cruelty squad if they had better gameplay as a result without a moments hesitation.

[@Dabedidabe]

I had the exact same feeling. I am seeing more people having negative opinions about the DLC about problems already present in the main game. It feels like an "I told you so!"-moment. I guess hype is a hell of a drug?

[@Stanzbey69]

Game is brilliant, your little opinion doesn’t change that fact. Loud minorities are just that, loud minorities. Never listen to them.

[@anegg1464]

@@Nereverineyoure acting like the other games are filled with whim and wonder at every which turn… fuck no! The other games have holes you fall into and die for no reason. Elden ring also has that but is significantly more enjoyable to travel around in. The map couldve been cut nearly in half, ill give you that, but you’re acting like being not open world is infinitely better when it has tons of problems too. As a result of its design, Elden Ring has T O N S of replayability. Dark Souls 3, for example, has nothing to show for its design after just one playthrough. You are crazy i guess, because most people want to play the game they buy for full price a lot of times and get enjoyment out of it… thats why ER is open world. Also although the enemies leave something to be desired, the point is more so treating it like an rpg on each subsequent playthrough and having to deal with different dungeons each time on different builds.

[@ennayanne]

Oh god you're a mauler guy aren't you. I was wondering why the video itself seemed so good when there's so much brainrot in the comments but now it makes sense

[@adamantz7682]

the meta-argument is spot on. the bosses can only do their delay attacks because they have the meta knowledge that you cant punish(insta kill) them for it. in a real fight you would just stab them if they do crazy shit like that and theyd just die.

[@BigGuy1989]

@ADoggedContender First of all his argument was applied to a "real fight" and for all intents and purposes Dark Souls combat is only very superficially "real". Secondly they ARE punish windows many times once you know how ridiculously long the charge up is, so they rely entirely on you, the player, not thinking that they would be so ridiculously long.

[@I-ONLY-BUILD-MECHS-AND-DUSTERS]

@ADoggedContender I don't know man, maybe try playing the game a single time. The delays are short enough to set up rolls catches, not enough for you to get any sort of attack in (except for Messmer, who is exquisitely designed). If an enemy staggers, delays are in fact stupid and will get the enemy killed very easily, but almost none of the notable enemies stagger, especially against lighter weapons.

[@reallyhim410]

but you can punish them? the delays are literally the attack windows people complain don't exist. For example, Margit holds his sword up for 4 seconds so you can hit him before rolling away. That never stops. Not every attack is punishable but part of learning the fights is finding which windows you have.

[@reallyhim410]

@@I-ONLY-BUILD-MECHS-AND-DUSTERSyou're just lying. Consort Radahn has multiple delayed wind ups that can be punished. As does Rellana, as does nearly every boss in the entire game lmao.

[@BigGuy1989]

@ADoggedContender the problem is that it looks ridiculous to the point that I can no longer see this as a living being, but lines of code designed to throw me off. It has no basis in any grounded setting, which is something souls used to not be so shit at.

[@aa6731]

“A second twidded has hit the tipples” ~Bilbo w. Boogie

[@NerotheGame]

Two things that broke me (re enemy telegraphing giving you no indication of what to expect) were Radahn's gravity pull, and the few times he spews light pillars EVERYWHERE. You're supposed to frame perfect dodge these attacks and there's no other way to avoid them. Forget the telegraph not giving you any indication of what to do, the attack itself gave no indication. De jure...they are unavoidable. Why in the fuck would rolling on the floor save me from gravity magic all around me? Why would rolling into a pillar of lasers keep me safe? These attacks were designed with the mechanical reality of how the dodge functions in mind, and not the contextual conceit of "YOU ARE ROLLING TO MOVE OUT OF THE WAY OF THE ATTACK". Can't wait for a boss with an arena full of chests and the only way to avoid attacks are to open the chests at the right time for the i-frames. Absolute pigshit. Excellent video by the way :)

[@davidwhidden9337]

His cross slash move would also catch you when you attempt to jump over the initial low sweep. There's difficult. Then there's artificial diffiiculty. Punishing a player for choosing a correct option is artificial difficulty.

[@Krakain]

​@@davidwhidden9337his attack just got nerfed because the hitbox was too big. It's fixed now.

[@Krakain]

Two of the attacks you listed are telegraphed, the gravity pull is telegraphed is when he stretches his arms out and gets ready to stomp/slam. The light pillars are also spawned after he does the light combo, which would be learned if you fought him more than 5 times. These are learned attacks. Not something you'll know if you just rely on luck to beat a boss or beat the boss too fast.

[@davidwhidden9337]

@@Krakain Yes and? This does not negate the criticism that it was poorly designed that way to begin with.

[@arctiwolf857]

@@davidwhidden9337 It actually validates the criticism. The devs even agreed.

[@therabbi9848]

What’s so strange to me is the 2 completely different approaches to play in exploration vs boss fights. While exploring you’re taught to go slowly and cautiously, watching for traps, hidden enemies, details in the environment that could reveal shortcuts, etc. In the older games at least, boss fights weren’t that much different. For the most part, patience and caution could get you through most bosses without much trouble. That exploration in ER might be the best it’s ever been, at least in its legacy dungeons. It’s probably why I have such a great time with the game when I’m not fighting bosses, in which case im just enduring sensory overload and focusing every bit of my attention on trying to roll at the right time and pretty much nothing else.

[@VerbalIntercourse100]

The telegraphing section is on point. The enemy animations in elden ring look so fucking goofy because they're designed for the sole purpose of tricking people who have played prior souls games. So immersion breaking.

[@zarodgaming1844]

" b-b-b-but ... some unemployed guy beat it naked with a stick. you can't criticize the combat." cit. someone who thinks he's smart

[@RandomGameClips27]

Fr

[@Stanzbey69]

Holy strawman

[@zarodgaming1844]

@@Stanzbey69 that is LITTERALLY their argument ... complete with wojack-like pointing 💀

[@clairetellkamp6253]

@@zarodgaming1844 No, that is LITERALLY a strawman that you're making up

[@kittyoftheskies6146]

The genre analysis here is really important. Soulslike is a weird word that has kind of been placed off on its own little island of comparison, where soulslikes are compared to each other but not other games. Since Bloodborne onwards, these games have shifted less from the action rpg side with focused level and encounter design with a focus on variety of encounter, and more towards pure action game, with elden ring being the worst offender due to not having traditional intentional level design at all. So it's important we break away from the isolated soulslike island and start comparing them to other action games to see what these games are doing, and the answer is frustratingly little. I couldn't stop thinking every time I fought a large monster that I'd rather be playing Monster Hunter with a camera and weapon moveset that directly engages with what I'm doing. I can't stop thinking about Metal Gear Rising and Sifu whenever I fight multiple enemies at a time. I enjoy the big flashy spectacles on weapons, but the interruptions and downtime just mean I'd rather be playing Devil May Cry. My favorite part of Elden Ring combat has become the dueling, Rellana and Midra are very fun fights, but I'd still rather be playing Sekiro. The world design and the visuals are the best part, but I can get that in any artsy indie platformer or puzzle game. I like the story a lot, but the story in SotE feels unfinished, the npcs and miquella all feeling flat and uninteractable to a level that feels like cut content. Shaman village was my favorite part too, and amplified the base game's narrative in a very good way, but everything else feels nearly contradictory at times. This was good, thank you for it, it put a name to a lot of my frustrations with this genre lately, and I hope this analysis gets a lot of attention, because it's focused in a way a lot of the other critiques haven't been, with the larger mechanical discussion and how it relates to genre as design.

[@321cheeseman]

Even if you _do_ limit comparison to soulslikes, a comparison of combat to Nioh 1 and 2 or to Lies of P still isn't at all favorable for FromSoftware. There's so much room to do better even on this little island.

[@arijjavaid323]

​@@321cheesemanFromSoft loves to experiment with different titles. Sekiro and Armored Core 6 combat system actionwise blows lies of P out of the window

[@GregStraub42]

Me: Rellana is annoying Fanbois: ur bad! Stop being bad! Me: I didn't say I can't beat it, I said it's a bad fight and her forever-combo is annoying. Fanbois: UR BAD!!1!ONE!!!

[@gabriellecollier8127]

I love how excellent this guy is at the game, cavorting around the bosses like a ballerina, and he STILL understands that finessing a game does equal _enjoying_ the game. I miss Bloodborne. 😟

[@Roro_2338]

i appreciate the complete lack of background music in this video. it makes it very easy to focus on exactly what you're saying, which is worthwhile when you have such a good script.

[@thecrakp0t]

I refuse to bow to the fanboys because I don't want this franchise and company to go the way of Bethesda. Bethesda games got as bad as they are because people refused to be openly critical of their games to the point the devs took that as encouragement that fans will like it no matter what. This absolutely cannot happen with the Dark Souls franchise, so let's be real when they produce a stinker. Just to make a point, SotE is the one Fromsoft DLC I have not, and will not finish (at least not any time soon). When the final boss was spoiled for me, my jaw dropped to the floor and I promptly quit out of the game and never turned it back on. That's how low the lows are.

[@tudorstancescu4509]

I swear, the souls vets lost their fucking mind over this game to the point that they think they are fighting a big, evil mob and that they are the last survivors standing.😂 In case you don't know fallout 3,4 and skyrim are very criticised by bethesda fans, 76 was considered a failure and the only thing memorable about starfield is the prounoun rant. Bethesda didn't fail because they weren't criticised enough (nice opinion Josheph Anderson). I have a lot of problems with this dlc, i was disappointed by it but have you ever thought that these video esseys are not very good (how feeble king says that the rewards are useless because he doesn't want to use them, or that there is no time to heal in boss battles, or this guy from this video who analysed fucking physics in a dark fantasy game.By his logic demon's souls is a shit game because false king allant slides on air. Tell me how natural that move is). And also everyone called out the Radhans double slash. So hey, it seems that people do criticised fromsoft.And also also, why do you care so much about people thinking that the dlc is a masterpiece? Isn't that their opinion?

[@Dabedidabe]

It's going to happen anyway. Enough people are so overly positive about ER that they litterally have no reason to improve anything. I'd be very surprised if ER2 does anything to properly adress the glaring problems. The open world will still be boring and people will still praise it but slightly less, until we are at From's starfield where finally everyone sees how bad it actually is.

[@tudorstancescu4509]

​@@Dabedidabe1. I don't think is going to happen, but if it does it will be because of money and greed , not because of ,,toxic positivity". What a childish thing to say! 2. From what i heard (I might be wrong), but I think they said there won't be another Elden Ring or open world game. 3 The majority of people that shit on these critiques don't think that this game is perfect. They are saying ( including me) that this critiques are poorly made and lazy and full of problems. What the hell, Elden Ring base game is a solid 7/10 game, in my eyes, but still one of my favorite games of all time.

[@Dabedidabe]

@@tudorstancescu4509 A childish thing to say... Ahh the irony

[@tudorstancescu4509]

​@@Dabedidabe I didn't mean it as an insult. I wanted to say that gaming companies usually don't really care what people have to say about their product, only money. So i thought that is unrealistic that we ,as the consumers, to have any power to change something about a video game company.

[@larsen7249]

oh man, awesome video, honestly didn’t expect such a deep dive into animations/skill expression/rolling/positioning of course a dmc and monhun player would know a lot more about souls games than actual souls fans

[@PeterEhik]

Dude just started playing Monster Hunter because of this video and they're so many things already that I think fromsoft can learn from, the first one being something I've argued for for years, get rid of the dodge, having that in the toolkit is what makes it so bosses have to become so insane to roll catch you just like you mentioned in the vid. Also I love how you don't need lockon in MH, it allows you to move freely while fighting, it works because the monsters are big and you fight in a large area but I would love fromsoft to adjust the way the camera works when you fight large enemies, if it zooms out enough, you shouldn't need lock on or you can just toggle it when you need it and then toggle off. Right now try fighting the hippo without lockon, it's so hard cause he's moving around quickly and disappears from your screen so you have to turn the camera around and while you're doing that he's charging at ya. It should be so much easier for me a human sized creature to track a hippo the size of a house than it should be for the hippo to track me, how the fuck is a 10,000 lb hippo faster than the tarnished?

[@nodot17]

To be fair Hippos are surprisingly fast

[@PeterEhik]

@@nodot17 They're fast but they don't turn on a dime like a cat and there's this thing called acceleration, the hippo does this move where it telegraphs a dive at me and it hits me before I can even click roll, never learned how to dodge that consistently because it goes from standing/walking to slapping me in the face halfway across the room. Fucking Commander Gauiss boar also accelerates in record time when he does the charge from up close and it shouldn't be that way. For an example of a much more fair charge, look at the falling star beast, it's fast but you can literally walk away from the charge, not even run or roll, just walk away left/right because you can see it coming and it cant change direction once it's hit top speed. I still get hit by it sometimes so it's not exactly piss easy to dodge, like if you're not paying attention or attacking when it starts charging, you can get hit. I love this game btw, for the most part but I just wish there weren't so many frustrating moments where I'm just not sure what I'm doing wrong

[@La0bouchere]

Funnily enough, people on the old demons souls forum were saying that rolls should be taken out because they make combat shallow. This was back in 2010. If you are looking for another game to try, check out Exanima. It's the closest game there is to Demons Souls combat without any roll, parry, or other QTE-adjacent mechanics.

[@clairetellkamp6253]

You've not played much Monster Hunter, have you? 1) Monster Hunter has dodges 2) Monster hunter roll-catches you in said dodges (Kulve Taroth, Blackveil Vaal Hazak) 3) There are many enemies in Monster Hunter where you need lockon to effectively fight them 4) Part of the whole conversation surrounding the Dark Souls 2 discourse from Matosis and MauLer's response to HBomberguy back in 2017 was that Dark Souls engine is built around the idea of one-on-one fights, and that the lock-on system is in place for a reason, and that experienced players know how to use it effectively and when to not use it. Getting rid of it entirely would be insufferable.

[@davidwhidden9337]

On a day of a patch. Theo with the pure timing.

[@alexlee4154]

The rubber band snapped for me in base game elden ring. It's become just unintersting level design entirely to serve bafflingly designed copy paste bosses. That's a point I'd like to emphasise. It is atrocious that the reward for exploration is boss fights and a bunch of them are either copy pastes or just plain dogshit.

[@dr17719]

I gave up on the Souls and Ring series when it became apparent that From lost the striving towards an elegant minimalism with accurate and weighty physics and combat systems, instead headed towards bloat bloat bloat. And still no actual story or characterization. We've also essentially had the same limited magic system that has not been used to generate unique playstyles or mechanics for 3+ games now yet tge majority of bosses are just big beings with swords.

[@Sephirothkingdom782]

Literally the only game that did that was elden ring The weighty combat had its issues, you seem to be the kind of guy that hates hack n slash because it’s “fast”. Sekiro was an amazing game despite it not being “slow and weighty”. Not sure if you’re just writing that comment for the sake of exaggeration.

[@bretflixmazursky2112]

It’s crazy how I agree with nearly everything you say, yet I still really like Elden Ring. I guess that’s the difference between objectivity and subjectivity. Really great video Theo! I enjoyed this analysis and learned quite a lot!

[@Laeus_ZR0]

Correct but most people think that criticizing the game is the equivalent to shitting in their mouth. These people can’t differentiate between their subjective feelings (which can only be changed by themselves) and objective criticism and honestly it kinda saddens me that there aren’t more people with your take, really liking elden ring after listening and understanding the criticism and agreeing that the game has massive problems but still liking it because what the game means to them is for them to decide

[@PeterEhik]

Made some excellent points that I totally agree with but I still love the game and I hope fromsoft take some critique to heart and use it to improve in the next one. My biggest wish for the next game is no dodge. It will really make them have to redesign all of their bosses and require a little more depth from the player response. I think Elden ring definitely has a lot of depth, it’s just hidden behind Hours of memorization and optimization, there need to be more intuitive ways to play the game. If I don’t have an dodge and the boss can’t immediately turn 360 to track me then I can intuitively avoid attacks with any/all tools in my disposal.

[@elibrainless90]

Lol same here! I have like 600 hours in to elden ring and I consider it and bloodborne my favorites of the series. But I agree with alot of the criticism in the vid

[@ramrodbldm9876]

​@@Laeus_ZR0 keep coping clown 😂

[@Laeus_ZR0]

@@ramrodbldm9876 Thanks for proving me right

[@GreytestGrey]

SIR A SECOND ROT HAS HIT THE ERDTREE

[@La0bouchere]

I wish they would focus on making hard levels again. I want to actually feel like I'm fighting through an adventure, dying a lot and running out of resources while exploring. Imagine if they made a level that was as hard as Rhadan, where everyone was saying that it took them hours to figure out and beat. That would actually be genuinely exciting and interesting, having to factor in all the details of the level, mastering every encounter, making sure you handle resources well etc. As it is now, levels aren't obstacles you face on an adventure, they're just forgettable paths to the boss checkpoint. Somehow Bloodborne's first level has better encounter design than the entirety of ER.

[@theatheistbear3117]

I remember how Dark Souls 2 had a good variety of obstacles to be overcome and it was very easy to mess up and restart from the very beginning. Enemies were placed in tight spaces, making it hard to maneuver without getting hit and allowed combat to be much more focused on spacing. It was the last Souls game that really made the road to the boss an actual challenge to be overcome (which Bloodborne does kind of okay but it’s more open spaces make most of the enemies very easy to avoid) which Demon’s Souls did even better despite it being the first entry. It’s why people who came from Dark Souls 1 (and later games post BB) were disappointed that the bosses were so easy, because the road TO the boss was the actual meat of the game next to exploration.

[@VerbalIntercourse100]

I'd rather play through a long level with somewhat tough enemies than have a checkpoint right in front of a crackhead boss with a 20 hit combo that zooms in and out of the camera.

[@darthdragonborn1552]

“I want this game that isn’t a dark souls game to be dark souls.”

[@Enraric]

I enjoy SotE, but it's clear From is in an escalating arms race with their players as long as they stick with this combat framework. If From Soft had stuck with the level of boss complexity seen in DeS and DS1, veteran players would find the new games unsatisfyingly easy. I played Bloodborne for the first time this year, with all the other games already under my belt, and I was able to beat almost every boss in the game first try (including legendarily hard ones, like Maria and Orphan). I think the path forward for From Soft needs to involve shaking up the combat framework, as they did for Sekiro. Sekiro changed the rules enough that veteran players were on the same footing as new players, and couldn't rely on their existing instincts. Sekiro is actually quite easy once you get comfortable with its combat framework, but the need to learn the new framework is where the challenge, and the fun, comes from.

[@eliasfigarzon9813]

That's an interesting take to hear from you my dear friend. I don't know if you have played bloodborne before, but if you have done and came back after elden ring, is understandable how you have passed through the bosses specially if you are an aggressive player such as myself, which is the key element to adapt to bloodborne. Objectively speaking bloodborne is the hardest souls game from software has made, followed by dark souls 2 for obvious reasons. And on the other hand elden ring is the easiest souls game objectively speaking as well, including dlc, but it would seem harder than it appears due to its poor design in many areas ; funny enough, these flaws are what make elden ring more fun for others but it is very unpleasant for many others, mainly the veterans. I, for the most part, find elden ring to be very easy including all the bad design once you get used to it, but this is not a good thing to share with others, specially the new players who are get inside this genre for this game. What from software and miyazaki need to do right now in their future games is comeback and evolve, craft new ideas and features from the best combat systems they have : bloodborne and sekiro are unmatched here, but from refuses to do more with them and just adds a few elements here and there, therefore, making all more complicated for no reason. They now are the ones who need to see others and take notes from them to evolve their formula, specifically right now because they are being left behind by new developers ; lies of p is the perfect example of how this genre must evolve, and look that this is the first game that round 8 studio and it's director have made, and it already is better than the majority of from software's catalog, with the only ones above it being bloodborne and dark souls. I hope from software can take a new direction for the future games, because they can be better everyday.

[@La0bouchere]

I don't think Sekiro is a good comparison. Anyone that focused on hitting deflects can beat the game extremely easy (my first run was only around 10 hours). And it's still fundamentally the same mechanic as rolling, in that you do X action when attacks will hit you and attack otherwise. It felt exactly like souls combat but just more forgiving since deflects negate attacks and also help you kill bosses.

[@Enraric]

@@La0bouchere You adapted to Sekiro's combat much faster than me, then. I can beat the game in around 10 hours now, but my first playthrough was like 30-40 hours. Early on I lacked the confidence to stand in place and deflect even when my health / posture were low; all of my instincts from Souls were screaming at me to dodge away and heal, which got me killed a lot of the time. It took me most of my first playthrough to really commit to the mantra "hesitation is defeat." All of my friends who are Souls fans had similar experiences, finding Sekiro brutally hard at the start, and taking most of their first playthrough to really come to grips with the combat system.

[@La0bouchere]

@@Enraric That actually makes a lot of sense. Being more defensive and not focusing on deflects when in danger is probably the most common way to play that game at first.

[@cmoney163]

My biggest issue is that the combat boils down to run away/dodge until you have a window to light hit once MAYBE twice or 1 heavy attack or ash of war hit, then repeat. It just unnecessarily draws out the fights and makes the boss fights so boring imo. For their next game they should look to Nioh for some inspiration on the combat.

[@guacpapi2396]

It’s refreshing to see a well articulated critique like this. Nice work! I wish I enjoyed this dlc but it was genuinely a chore to play through. It seems like ER has become a husk/caricature of what fromsoft games used to be

[@DeadLock6578]

To me personally im not a fan of how over the top and "anime" these recent games have become now especially with Nightreign. I really am missing the grounded dark fantasy setting of dark souls like if I wanted to play final fantasy i would have freakin bought final fantasy

[@MizukiNoDoragon]

good thing 'Elden Ring' is explicitly not 'Dark Souls'

[@deadgunslinger8489]

Have you seen Armored core? FS always had anime in their DNA

[@DeadLock6578]

@deadgunslinger8489 what does this genre of game have to do with a mech game? Don't get me wrong armored is really fun but why would the two very different ips be comparable

[@deadgunslinger8489]

@@DeadLock6578 im saying that FS always enjoyed putting over the top stuff in their games. Demons souls and dark souls being grounded were kinda the exception of this (besides artorias, hes straight up a anime character in the way he fights). But maybe one of the next projects is a new King's field. I feel like a slow FPS RPG could be really cool if done right. And honestly after AC6 i kinda want that they make other games that are not souls likes.

[@racketeeringrat]

​ @MizukiNoDoragon it is tho, but with a jump button.

[@InqGraves]

Thank you Theo - this video explained what I've felt about this game!

[@I-ONLY-BUILD-MECHS-AND-DUSTERS]

You vocalized all my thoughts, even on Messmer being wonderfully designed, even on the flaws of the base game. Thanks for making this video, I wouldn't have the patience.

[@ramirosilvaalmeida6768]

I enjoy finding videos like this, which are brilliantly argued and well put together, I disagree completely with almost everything that he says but I respect the willingness to actually make an argument instead of just going "IT NOT LIKE IT WAS 13 YEARS AGO"

[@Theottree]

I appreciate that

[@mihaimercenarul7467]

And why do you disagree? Fanboy much?

[@Jose_Doe]

Maybe everyone bringing up points and comparing stuff from 13 years ago isn't just doing that either

[@owyemen9367]

@@mihaimercenarul7467holy shit just shut the fuck up people can have different opinions

[@SkepticalBucketman]

I usually don´t leave second comments but since this video was pretty good and I like to (whenever possible) engage and offer my perspective to the analysis rather than just a joke, here we go. It´s gonna be a long one, so whether you read the whole thing or just some of it, thank you beforehand for your time and have a nice day. Starting with *level design* , specifically when it comes to the Specimen Storehouse, if I´m to compare it to Research Hall I find that it falls behind. Research Hall was designed around 1 lamp, and it had a system of shortcuts via elevators to connect the different parts of the level, encouraging deeper understanding of how the level worked. Specimen Storehouse has 5 Sites of Grace and the level is layered in a way that, at least to my knowledge, you can´t navigate the whole area from its first Grace even if you already unlocked the rest, you have to teleport and thats it. Even if the level is able to branch into more levels, I find this level to be an example of how Fromsoft often forgets solutions to problems they already solved. Like doing an open world encounter that you have to engage in a sort of Tower Knight-esque way, but much worse, repeated 7-8 times. Or an obscure elevator (from Enir Ilim to Belurat) that by the time you unlock said shortcut you probably realize that it´s of no use to you at that point in the game. Regarding *combat* and *bosses* , I overall find myself agreeing with most, if not all, of your assessments. For context, I´ve cleared most of the DLC bosses on my RL1 character and have nohit them all except for Radahn (So far my pb is 20-ish%) and Midra, using different weapons. Almost every single one of them has some unavoidable (or nearly) or very inconsistent bs going on, Gaius has the charge, Romina has her instant, frame 0 phase transition (which she can keep using), Metyr has the stupid double laser, Radahn has/had the frame trap move (terrain shenanigans in phase 2, AI shenanigans both phases, etc), Bayle´s wonky tracking for his fire breath and also a lot of these have RNG lottery follow-ups they may or may not do. Will Metyr do the ground slam with her head/hands 2 times or 3 times?, Who knows, pretend it´s 3, will Bayle do his headbutt combo extender and/or his firebreath extra-combo extender? Who knows, pretend it´ll happen and roll just in case even if nothing happens. Animation-wise, the Sunflower´s charge animation goes from 0 (enters position and holds it completely still for 2 secs) to 100 (immediately charges at you) with no tell or visual cue in between, Messmer has a subtle tell for his orb when he´s in the air, a grey-ish vfx will appear briefly indicating his descent, Sunflower just doesn´t, so you better be prepared to have a 2 sec timer in your head each time you see it. I´ve seen a lot of coping arguments saying that this is different from DS3 (ER´s predecessor) because it adds 3 new mechanics to the already aging combat blueprint (that you´re not nearly as incentivized to use as just rolling), like it´s 4D chess or something by comparison, it isn´t, remove any of those new mechanics and you won´t have much of a problem, remove rolling and you´ll be doing a very miserable challenge run. As Matthewmatosis once said: "If you change directions after you hear the shot you´ll be safe...Right?. Wrong, the arrow magically curves in midair because this is no longer a series where you outsmart your opponents, this is a series where you press the roll button at the right time"

[@tahireed]

Every boss move you said is inconsistent or hard to avoid is not. How have you done a RL1 run and are that bad? Are you just lying to make a point? None of those moves are hard to avoid. Wow.

[@crim1188]

@@tahireed Try reading what he said again. Like really slowly. I understand you and many others were absent for reading comprehension classes in elementary but just try. Please.

[@tahireed]

@@crim1188 "Almost every single one of them has some unavoidable or inconsistent bs going on." This is false and all his examples are moves than can easily be avoided. Idk what point you thought he made with that statement but its completely wrong. Learn what the term reading comprehension means and try to not be extremely pretentious and condescending. It will serve you better in the future,

[@SkepticalBucketman]

@@tahireed I didn´t say that "Every boss move is inconsistent or had to avoid", I said that almost all of them have inconsistent, outright unavoidable or nearly unavoidable bs going on. You mentioned that my examples are wrong but you didn´t say how or why, just that it is. And just to make things clear, let´s talk about why: -Gaius charge is not consistently dodgeable on medium load, requiring either light load or extra talisman/tear or both. -Romina has an aoe phase transition which deals instant damage right as the vfx/animation starts, it´s not telegraphed in any way and the only way to account for it without taking dmg is by prediction, if you roll right after a punish, thereby predicting or accounting for a move that hasn´t happened yet, it´s likely you won´t take dmg, if you don´t you´ll end up taking dmg, because reacting to this move is at the very least inconsistent. -Metyr´s double laser is not dodgeable if you are at melee range, the move can happen quite fast and covers a lot of ground, and since the first part isn´t dodgeable unless you use Raptor of the Mists, again, you are either forced to use 1 thing to fully dodge it or spend the whole 2nd phase running away, baiting her spinny move and run away again, over and over. Check Aggy´s RL1 no Scadu blessings, check Gino´s strat in his no-hit run of the DLC, that move is the reason why they spend the 2nd Phase running away. -Radahn´s Frame Trap was at the very least, incredibly inconsistent to roll if you happened to be at any place but the one very specific spot to dodge it, it was inconsistent on light load, and even more inconsistent on medium load, as it required frame perfect timing. You can even find footage of Aggy and Gino saying they didn´t like it, Gino even said the boss would still need some tuning(which they did, for a reason) to even be a B Tier boss. -Bayle´s tracking for his fire breath (the one that goes in a straight line) can jump out of the window and go from a breath attack that aims at your current position right at the start to aiming at the position you are running to in order to avoid the first scenario (which is what happens most of the time), making the tracking for this attack inconsistent. If someone needs to learn comprehension, it´s you, this all happened because you made up a statement that I didn´t make, because you didn´t read what I said. And if you want to glaze while offering nothing of substance, go do it somewhere else, this game (a game that I still like btw) has a lot of glazers and you won´t have much trouble finding them.

[@tahireed]

@@SkepticalBucketman I quoted exactly what you said, word for word and now you are saying that's not what you said. This is one of the saddest things I have ever seen. I'm done. You and the other person need a serious lesson in reading comprehension. You can't literally say something and then say you didn't say that. There is legit criticism of the game but your points and examples regarding bosses are wrong. Every example you gave of inconsistentcy is something I had no trouble avoiding consistently. My experience with the game literally proves you wrong. You are either very bad and got lucky or lying. Gauis's charge is the perfect example. If you seriously had trouble with that move, you are just bad. I dodged it consistently no problem after getting the timing down with a medium load.

[@fly1ngG0PHER]

Spot-on. This DLC in particular came across like vast expanses of nothing, punctuated by talismans, and bosses that feel like flashcards with poses as the questions and timings + positioning as the answers, with no hints whatsoever. Don’t think I have ever before in my life spent 45 minutes having absolutely no idea what a Souls boss was doing or how to respond to anything other than the first attack. 45 straight minutes of not even attempting to hit the boss, with the express intent of simply seeing with my eyes, then recognizing with my brain and then hitting roll with my thumb quickly enough not to get snagged by the fastest attacks (which basically determine the difficulty of the entire fight, like Oceiros with his instacharge), or tricked into early or late rolls by everything else, and being absolutely no closer when I finished the session. The learning process is excruciatingly arbitrary and frustrating. I do find it interesting that the boss this happened with was Messmer for me, while Midra (minus the explosion) was somehow more intuitive and fun with plenty of counter windows to me, and we appear to have reversed opinions on their quality. Still, I’ve been stewing in all of these thoughts for a while and you captured basically all of them. I’ve definitely decided never to get gaslit into buying FromSoft games again one day after I entered this DLC and regretted every minute since reaching the first boss, the goodwill is just dead. I really can’t even play Devil’s Advocate on any of these points.