The Internet is Turning its Back on True Crime

[@LavenderTowne]

I think for me the best aspect of good True Crime podcasts (Gen Why, Serial, Criminal) was that they undid a lot of the damage of cop propaganda TV. Nothing taught me more about the real pitfalls and darkness in our justice system. I didn't realize how much pro-police crime shows had warped my idea of what our real justice system is actually like until I started listening to true crime. All three of the podcasts I listed cover false imprisonment and police corruption alongside their more standard true crime content and they are very respectful to victims.

[@quenanatasya8650]

My favourite would be cayleigh Elise

[@krabatnightmare]

@@quenanatasya8650 omg yes, Caileigh I miss her... 😢

[@quenanatasya8650]

@@krabatnightmare I feel like she's the only creator that actually do in depth research and respect the family and victim, even if the victim is a john or Jane doe. She always speak and present the case somberly too. God I miss her qwq

[@goldenhoney9174]

THIS!!!! The number of times I hear about the lack of initiative and action the police force take in most cases is horrifying! Like honestly, they dont truly investigate potential leads and it allows serial killers to get away just under their noses over and over again. It is absolutely ridiculous. I feel like if we all cared enough, we can make a change and demand the legal system to actually do their job properly. If all the people who watch true crimes start a movement to better protect potential future victims, something good could come out of all these true crimes media.

[@krabatnightmare]

@@quenanatasya8650 exactly! I only watched her, because I could see how much she cared, and also I just love her personality. Also, I liked the way she made her subscriber storytime videos. I hope she's doing better

[@ThaliaVSD]

Here in Brazil, the mother of a an actress who was brutally murdered like in the 90s had to produce a true crime documentary about the murder of her own daughter and the trial because now that the murderer is out of prison he’s doing a whole marketing scheme about how he’s innocent, trying to erase the murder from the collective memory and making it seem that it was the woman he murdered that was insane. I don’t like true crime, I don’t condemn it but god it makes me sick that a mother has to relive the worst thing that ever happened to her to try to preserve her daughter’s reputation for generations that never knew her and will believe any bullshit they read on the internet. True crime can do good, it can help people but the respect for your fellow human being should be the driving force for creating or watching it and empathy for victims that have no voices instead of fetishizing violence above all else

[@maddie9655]

I refuse to watch ANY true crime doc! 9 times out of 10, the documentary is literally produced with the intent to garner sympathy or understanding towards the killer! The victim is very rarely important, but the life the murderer lived is very important in these docs.

[@haggish_]

this doc series has just been listed on HBOmax (in the US) but i had no idea that was the reason behind the production. just awful. it's a small consolation, at least, that it's the family that is control of the narrative so that the series isn't as exploitative as these things tend to be.

[@kenjako]

Quem?

[@kitten4790]

What was the name of the documentary?

[@Lima_Lima_Lima]

Quem foi? Curiosa. Aliás, o teu comentário é um bom exemplo de como true crime pode ser algo bom ou ruim.

[@margaesperanza]

God I remember when a podcast gave "advice" to their listeners to not be a pushover because the poor victim who got murdered didn't tell her boyfriend's friends (and eventual killers) that she was uncomfortable with them. I almost blew a blood vessel.

[@strawberrybandage]

@@accounfour2402 in the lyrics of lotta true crime by penelope scott, "she could've killed you. She had every right, you just caught her off guard tonight." Innocent murder victims are never weak.

[@losermillie]

@@accounfour2402 is it?? A woman hasn’t been murdered or drugged for saying no or standing up for herself?

[@Mobsie23]

@@accounfour2402 do you think people who are capable of murder are going to stop at 'i feel uncomfortable with this'? i've never met anyone who would be comfortable getting murdered

[@jessd4467]

@@accounfour2402 there is zero scientific or socialoligistic evidence for this, claiming such is not only dangerous but disgusting

[@chocomelo454]

while I've heard that as advice for women or transmascs during their childhood purely because cis men will take advantage of someone's fear that being assertive or even mean could lead to being killed, but it's just a lose-lose situation. even though I understand the thing said, at least from the standpoint of someone who once had to pretend to be a woman and heard such advice, I def have to say it's extremely gross that they said that when talking abt a victim. saying it in general is less inappropriate but still gross. ick.

[@ChrisBrooks34]

I didn't like true crime for one simple reason: my nerves are bad. True Crime would only fuel my death anxiety and paranoia. I need my small pieces of happiness

[@thedolllovett]

thank you, i stopped watching them because they made me so scared to even go outside sometimes.

[@InTheNameOfLife1]

I actually like it for the same (opposite?) reason- I have a severe fear of death that makes me morbidly curious. I lost my sister 5 years ago and ever since have been pretty obsessed with it

[@KlaudiaKhaos]

same, i have severe anxiety normally and watching crime stuff made me really paranoid

[@OvisArcana]

it relieves me to know i'm not alone here. my mom was always a huge true crime fan growing up and so i grew up hearing about so many awful cases, it always sent me into a panic. i've tried to avoid true crime since moving out, but it has been so hard with the recent true crime boom :(

[@Noor.taylor]

Feel free to disregard this if you don’t want to work through death anxiety, I know it’s something that can be so scary and it’s daunting! I understand! But I’d HIGHLY recommend watching Ask A Mortician here on KZbin! She’s helped ease so much of my anxiety around death and she’s so lovely with how she approaches it. She’s soft and kind and quite funny in a lot of her videos, and she’s very educational. She’s written a few books, too; I’d start with “Will My Cat Eat My Eyeballs?”-its death questions from kids, which I think would make it easier to muster as a first read because of who it’s written from the perspective of/who it’s written for! 💕💕

[@haileysmith4386]

For those that don't know, please look into MMIW! (Missing and murdered indigenous women). It's a movement to help spread awareness about indigenous women who are kidnapped, trafficked etc. Because authorities are not doing enough to help and intervene. Indigenous women are extremely fetishized and targets to these awful people. Lots of tribes are hurting because our sisters are being taken from us. Awareness helps them get home safe or gives the family closure. ❤️ Love your videos and just thought I should bring this up!

[@lilyflower5576]

This is really scary there needs to be more awareness about this

[@ohno8398]

100% this, this and other incredible movements should be what we draw attention to!

[@Shadow_Hashbrown]

Yeah, Guatemala for example, it isn't like there is some kind of tribe, but there are a lot of indigenous woman, and when something happens to them, either the family does something or leave it to the police, and most of the time police overlooks those cases.

[@vain_eye2153]

MMWIG (don’t forget the girls too)

[@yemyearmii7231]

Thank you. MMIW is highly important to indigenous peoples of all nations, making podcasts for money is disgusting since we are actively demonized for being self governing. Government leads these affairs to the reservations with little intervention. Minus Washington state, they’re TRYING to make a push to make indigenous women priority. I believe Colorado as well. Should be country wide. Women are important to our culture and are what make our culture.

[@aliaf6423]

The absolute worst part of true crime channels is when they go on and on about how beautiful the victim was, (and the cases of the beautiful victims are always the ones they choose to cover) like that makes it more tragic than a victim who wasn’t traditionally beautiful. It makes my blood boil.

[@kwarra-an]

My god, yes! It's on all the shows, too. Every single female victim has her physical appearance described, but you never hear that said about a male victim.

[@spoon3073]

“such a shame. she was so beautiful.” at least compliment them as a person? if something happened to me and everyone said “she was so pretty.. a shame.” instead of giving actual sympathy i will haunt them.

[@rqnbix4872]

@@spoon3073 this reminds me of a true crime KZbinr by the name of Eleanor Neale, I haven’t watched her in a while but I do remember that she actually does mention how the victims were in life, by describing their personality, hobbies, and who they were to their peers. It’s respectable, compared to what other true crime content creators may make of the victim.

[@lilypad2714]

@@rqnbix4872 I’ve been binging her channel a lot lately and I love her videos, she goes into so much detail but in a way that is respectful to the victims and their families and that’s honestly how it should be. There’s also Hailey Elizabeth who does similar videos in much of the same way :3

[@riina___]

News do the same

[@quantafreeze]

I have to say one unintended benefit to true crime content is the eye opening realization of the ineptitude of the police. I've seen so much cop-aganda in my life, when I started listening to True Crime Brewery, I was shocked at how bad they can be. Ineptit, lazy, or maliciously complicit.

[@urgh9822]

💯

[@blutygar]

That's one thing that makes me believe there's value in true crime content and I hoped to see more of that, along with being respectful to the the victim qnd and their loved ones. It can be a huge eye opener and hopefully lead into people looking into how fucked up our justice system is from them to now.

[@laurel__]

Why is it always Canada who's the worst too? Ugh!

[@SoWhosGae]

@@laurel__ Fr when I heard about how dumb the police was in the Paul Bernardo case I lost my sh*t.

[@daft_j]

The Jeffrey Dahmer case was no exception. The cops brushed off a group of women after they witnessed one of Dahmer’s victims injured. The cops have that boy’s blood on their hands

[@howdycowboy247]

I used to love true crime. I studied criminology. I now work with crime victims. I no longer consume true crime unless it is a story being told by the victim/survivor, of their own volition. It feels gross & exploitive.

[@howdycowboy247]

Ones I like are "I survived" podcast and this is actually happening pod

[@heatherlee2047]

+++

[@Sisisiyoyoyoyo]

But when you studied it it wasnt?

[@binkin7304]

@@Sisisiyoyoyoyo you’re really doing to act like you don’t understand the difference between getting a degree that actually allows you to help the victims and exploiting their stories for likes and views? Critical thinking hard

[@howdycowboy247]

@@binkin7304 thank you, couldn't have said it better.

[@flaskehrlenmeyer4349]

I have a friend who was contacted by tw true crime podcasts about the death of a family member. the first one greeted its listeners with "good morning, murder muffins, we are so excited about today's story". my friend did not for some reason wish to discuss this traumatic event with those creators. the second podcast was an actual journalist with serious approach and compassionate intent and that podcast led to my friend getting some answers.

[@microwave8931]

Wait I thought "murder muffins" was a made up joke... that's actually real???

[@hauntedmushroomsasmr7716]

There was a video by a channel called “Well, I Never” about a young child that was brutally murdered in the 1800s and due to this horrific tragedy, “Fanny Adams” became a slang term for “coarsely-chopped, poor quality meat.” The video was so well done, and the narrator discusses how this slang term should never be used and that it’s incredibly insensitive and cruel and finishes it with paying homage to the little girl’s grave. THIS approach is much better than a giddy, twisted fascination with the murderer or the gruesome details of the crime. Like Poor Elisa Lam or something like that, we tend to forget these were REAL people and not characters in a thriller or horror movie.

[@yeoisa]

yes! that channel has great videos and he’s always so respectful! i also really love how he takes the time to visit important locations regarding the story, and pays respects to the victim(s). he doesn’t make it into some spectacle like a mukbang or a makeup tutorial

[@firestarterri]

You said it! Real people! Real tragedies! Not fiction for detached, click fodder, easily dismissed! These are the stories of human beings who died heartbreakingly and horribly with loved ones left behind who bear the scars of loss. Respect should be shown.

[@Juiceharlot]

I watch that channel. It is very good.

[@555starangel_]

I watched that video a few days ago, it really stuck with me how ppl could carelessly throw that term around.

[@Aster_Risk]

It's also completely different hearing about cases where no one affected by the tragedy is still alive. It's much more ethical to cover those instances.

[@scenes5757]

For me personally, I can’t handle true crime because I can’t help but feel that is this what the killer wanted? To have their name forever remembered while no one usually remembers the victims. When I think of that, it gives me too much uneasiness to watch.

[@mus1c3gg]

You're not wrong. There have been instances of exactly that, the z0d*ac for example. He had written letters to the police and newsletters about his popularity.

[@jamyaa1813]

Yes, same!

[@luciacuevas611]

This is my biggest gripe with the genre, they always tell the killer’s story and merely gloss over their victims. We are most interested in getting to know the killer than honoring the victims. And it specially irks me that it is often the case of a male killer and mostly female victims.

[@lenaboyer6981]

Yeah, the only true crime content I can stand is by creators who have consistently and explicitly vilified the perpetrator while also making sure to talk about the victim and what they were like so that people know it was a real person whose life was altered/cut short. It’s irresponsible to do otherwise imo.

[@rottingfruit9410]

Good point!!!

[@momomo1312]

Once I found on instagram a gore artist that drew real life crime scenes or leaked police pictures, they drew one picture of a girl that was killed in mexico by her boyfriend, the pictures of the scene were leaked and were everywere in social Media, her family came out and said they didn't want the photos to spread even more but it didn't work, the artist even added 'kawaii' cutesy stikers all around her, I found it disturbing that nobody seem to have a problem with it, I find it disgusting that this artist got away with disrespecing the life and wishes of that girl's family and many others(cuz the drew a bunch of other crime scenes), they got away with it and even gained a following that saw their art as uwu edgy dark raw aesthetic...I just live everyday how we lose our compasion for other human beings, how we turn the suffering of other people into cool and edgy things, I am so tired

[@kark2036]

Yo wtf... these kind of people are the worst. They have no connection to the real world and live in their weird bubble ugh

[@toxicallypink]

Jesus wtf is wrong with ppl

[@rhifgrty]

That makes me feel sick

[@lessthanahome]

Who's the artist?

[@anerrorhasoccurred8727]

These are the types of people who always say “I OnLy Do It To CoPe” 🙄

[@honeywater4564]

I’m a person on the spectrum that falls on the more hyper empathetic end. It always disturbed when people made light of true crime. I tried to get into it but I could never stop thinking about how these are people, real people, who thought and laughed and cried. They had dreams and aspirations and lost baby teeth. That these people are now in a video where a woman is putting on make up and glossing over an entire existence to sympathize with their killer because they had a bad childhood. It sickened me. And for a while I couldn’t really understand people who could still watch it. Now, I’m more understanding to true crime viewers although I will likely never participate in the genre. I just hope they remember that those people are people.

[@marmolejomartinezjoseemili9043]

Well, the perpetrators are humans too, who also thought laughed and cried, they, unlike most humans commited atrocities, but theres a reason, and theres a cause, and as much as they might not deserve to have sympathy, if we dont give them some we will never be able to educate people into going into the correct path of life instead of this path of life, so i agree that true crime should get better coverage, but i dont see how giving some attention to the perpetrators should allways be bad

[@honeywater4564]

@@marmolejomartinezjoseemili9043 I agree with what your saying but I think their stories stories shouldn’t overshadow those they have hurt.

[@marmolejomartinezjoseemili9043]

@@honeywater4564 i agree, im simply saying that they should get some converage if they are important enough in our understanding of criminals

[@anerrorhasoccurred8727]

One channel discussed the Japan’s “otaku killer”, describing the hard childhood he had…and then the narrator _very bluntly_ said that it didn’t justify anything, and the perp is a horrible person who would have been better off dying before he assaulted and murdered little girls. It ended on a tribute to the victims. I can’t remember what the channel was called but it was a refreshing stance.

[@honeywater4564]

@@anerrorhasoccurred8727 yeah! That actually sounds refreshing. She acknowledged it without excusing his actions which is great because sometimes they don’t do that 😅

[@nikkiking4044]

As a person who has lost a family member to murder, and who also enjoys TC, I think it would be beneficial if TCC would discuss more about how gun legislation and the wider justice system has failed victims and led directly to the deaths of many people.

[@TiredCapybara]

Absolutely, the discussion on how oppression can also effect the visibility of cases, how they move through the justice system, and how valid they're taken is also important.

[@suna2317]

Totally agree. I think the TCC could actually do a lot for not only awareness, but reforms of legislation. My biggest issue with true crime KZbinrs is not that they built their career on others’ deaths necessarily. It’s that they built their career, but often do nothing to give back. Just take what they can from a victim and don’t give back to the family involved or use their influence to make change so these things are less likely to happen. People can argue that it’s not their responsibility to do anything, but I disagree. They have such a big audience and make a lot of money through these ‘stories’, sponsors and merch. They have a MORAL responsibility and often ignore it for their own gain. It’s not enough to just be ‘respectful’ to a victim when you’re profiting from them like this. If you care about victims so much like you say you do, then do something! You have all the resources: money, audience, influence to make a change

[@Jay-uo5of]

I’m so sorry for your lost, I just wanted to say I agree entirely. The TC podcasts that focus on the Justice system failures, failures of the foster and mental health systems, and gun/protection order laws specifically I think are much more beneficial

[@mentallydisturbedllama473]

I'm so sorry for your loss. And agreed..lots of love. ♡

[@Scorch052]

I'm really glad they don't. There's already more than enough people out there telling you what to think.

[@tuyetb3753]

hi, thank you for this video! my aunt was killed before i was born, and there are "true crime" articles about her that are so disrespectful to what happened. they are all sensationalized, in a show they basically changed the story a ton and changed her personality etc and also in many articles because she is part asian they talk about how "exotic" she looked like?? this isnt helping... i think people forget these are REAL and that there are real people who knew them, they had lives. again thank you so much for this video

[@quandaredevil]

them describing her as "exotic" when talking about her murder is so disgusting because many asian women are murdered as the result of their race being fetishized, especially in recent years. I'm so sorry to hear that your aunt has faced such creepy and tone deaf treatment by the media.

[@idontevenknowwhy3655]

That is absolutely disgusting... I hope your family is healing from the loss

[@frank1830]

I’ll be real, I can enjoy true crime content from a distance, only when the creator is victim focused and when it is divorced from my trauma. That said, my childhood best friend was brutally murdered by her mother when she was 14, a few days before Christmas. I have anxiety attacks periodically about finding her story on some halfbacked true crime-drama channel and the only way to calm down is to scower the internet, mostly KZbin, to make sure her story isn’t being told any more than the original news coverage. I'm waiting for the day that someone finds her story and divulges all the salacious drama of her murder onto this entertainment platform. I love her, she was my best friend for years and even when we had periods of distance she always sent me a birthday card. I have a Christmas decoration she gave me hanging on my tree and each yeah I am reminded not only of how brightly she burned and how impacted I am by her care and friendship but also how short her life was. I know that I will continue hanging her ornament on the tree and she will continue to rest in a cemetery while her dad and brother have Christmas dinner without her. True crime is fine on the surface but the minute we forget or brush off the gaping holes these people leave behind it becomes a form of torture for the people who have loved and lost someone.

[@marmolejomartinezjoseemili9043]

I have a question, when you say "victim focused" what do you mean by it? Cause if you mean that we shouldnt cover the perpetrator i would dissagree, perpetrators are the people who caused the crime in the first place, we need to know about them, what made them do it, and more to prevent things from happening again, i would say its better said as "not romanticising or glorifing in any way the perpetrator" instead of "victim focused"

[@Sopran0livia]

Your comment kind of shook me up a bit. When I was reading through your comment it sounded so specifically like the story of a close friend of mine. I figured we had to have been friends with the same person. I went to your channel and I saw you had a playlist saved which had her name as the title, and had a video in the playlist that was of her singing. It’s so surreal to find another friend of hers in a KZbin comments section of all places. We probably don’t know eachother in real life but my guess is that you’re the best friend from her previous high school that she told me about. I was only friends with her for a short time, since she transferred to my school in her junior year but we became close and I miss her a lot. How have you been holding up since it all happened? I’ve gotten better over the years but it’s still pretty painful. I completely agree with you in how I feel about True Crime. Thankfully, I haven’t found any videos about her story because that’s something I’m also highly anxious about finding. Unfortunately though, I did once find a online sleuthing forum where people where discussing her story and finding court dates and stuff and it made me feel extremely sick to my stomach. It feels so awful to see random strangers on the internet theorizing over the details of your friend’s death. I’m at least glad that’s the only thing I’ve ever found. Anyways, I feel pretty much the same way about true crime and I was actually going to comment a very similar comment until I saw yours. What a small world we live in.

[@frank1830]

That’s crazy. That is literally so insane! Yeah, she and and I were best friends for many years and I think about her everyday. I’ve honestly not been too good. I knew her mother, her whole family, pretty well and I started have PTSD symptoms that resulted in really tragic and graphic night terrors. I went to a grief therapy group but it didn’t seem to make much of difference. (Not to demean anyone else’s loss but lost of the people there had lost a parent or parter to long term illness and I felt very out of place speaking about violent death in the presence of folks who were able to prepare at least a little.) I’m doing better now, but I miss her so much. How are you dealing? I’d love to connect more about it :)

[@frank1830]

When I say ‘victim focused’ I mean that I notice a lot of true crime just kind of glosses over the actual victim to get into graphic details of their death for entertainment. If true crime content is to be meaningful to families of victims and not exploitative then it needs to acknowledge that they are the important one, they are the person who lost their life, not the loser who took it. Learning about serial killer is fun and all and being relatively informed about predatory behavior is beneficial but the inadvertent glorification of murder by ignoring the victims humanity makes me want to explode lol. And no, I did intentionally write victim focused because I’m so fucking sick of seeing people whine about how damaged or hot a killer is or how they could ‘fix’ them. You’re a victim until you become a victimizer. Sensationalizing violent criminals for the sake of entertainment is crass.

[@marmolejomartinezjoseemili9043]

@@frank1830 well that clears things up, but i still think the phrase victim focused might be a little missleading or dificult to know what you would necesarally mean by it

[@bat7696]

As a self-described goth, and someone who used to bring dead bugs to school as a kid, I think humanity's morbid curiosity is natural and shouldn't be dissuaded or repressed. I instead think it could serve as an excellent teaching moment. One great place for people with such morbid curiosity to aim that energy would be the channel Ask A Mortician: a KZbinr who doesn't shy away from the morbid and macabre, but puts a heavy focus on respect for the dead and the destigmatisation of death. She doesn't treat these topics lightly or over-commercialise them. She uses her platform for education and awareness. My favourite video of hers is about one of the true cases inspiring the Moby Dick novel, shining a light on the violent colonisation and racism surrounding America and its prolific whaling trade of the 18th century.

[@bat7696]

@@friendofmaglor THIS!!!👏👏👏

[@rawfermews4186]

@@friendofmaglor it’s not judge mental. It’s the truth. You enjoy watching people exploit people who died in grusome and horrific ways. I hope your happy and your curiosity is satisfied.

[@rawfermews4186]

This isn’t morbid curiosity. It’s disrespectful. And dehumanizing

[@bat7696]

@@rawfermews4186 if you're talking about the kind of true crime media that Shanspeare talks about in the video? Then I'm completely in agreement with you. I apologise if it was unclear in my initial comment, but what I was getting at was that some people can be sucked into the true crime rabbit hole thru wanting to satisfy their curiosity. And that it is the fault of many consumers and creators of such true crime content for sensationalising and romanticising the lives of serial killers, almost always at the expense of the victims and their loved ones' rights to grieve. The alternative I suggested in my initial comment was meant to show that you can still satisfy your curiosity surrounding death and dying (understandable considering the lack of education surrounding the subject) without supporting this type of wildly disrespectful angle. Ask A Mortician, as I said, is a great example of this. She prioritises the stories of victims and focuses on explaining the systemic reasons why various disasters and deaths occur in history (recent or not-so-recent), so people can recognise this kind of negligence, misconduct, etc. in the modern day and shed light on it. Bringing justice to those who died at the hands of it and their loved ones, even if it's just a little. I would, as I said before, highly recommend her channel to anyone, especially those who may have recently realised the unethical nature of much true crime content, and wish to instead learn respect for the dead from an experienced mortician who cares greatly for her cause. Again, apologies if any of this was unclear in my original comment.

[@bat7696]

@@rawfermews4186 with respect, I do think you may be misunderstanding this commenter's intentions somewhat? I go into further detail in my other reply to you, and would be grateful if you read it, though I wouldn't wish to make you feel forced in any way. Thank you, however, for your willingness to defend those harmed by these true crime shows/podcasts/other media.

[@_letstartariot]

The downside I see to asking for permission is victims families being hounded incessantly because there are literally thousands of creators, journalists and writers who wish to talk about their loved ones. I don’t see it as viable. And I don’t think victims families should be forced to get representation just to deal with it. Victims resources are already spread thin also. I don’t know what the solution is. But seeking permission isn’t it.

[@audreybea4013]

maybe the families could set google alerts for the case? so they get notified when an article or video is made about the victim? I feel like that could help them deal with it on their own terms.

[@Jem5122]

🎯🎯🎯 Also imagine spending a week researching recording and editing a videos about a case just to help told to take it down. KZbinrs dont get paid per hour. Only by viewership so that can be a huge impact on a KZbinrs ability to pay their bills. Not trying to pick a fight but it’s a sad reality

[@shayadair6218]

I honestly think giving a portion of your profits to each victim is just the best move. You’re making money from their tragedy, so keep doing your job but give them a portion out of respect

[@kingexplosionmurderfuckoff9376]

Exactly

[@kingexplosionmurderfuckoff9376]

@@shayadair6218 If you want to, sure. But their tragefy is public knowledge at that point.

[@urgh9822]

True crime has always been in a grey area. It can be fun & educational that's not what makes it bad. It's *reducing* tragedies to background chatter , influencer/mua brands , sensationalism and turning monsters into quirky characters that bugs me.

[@testyckles5559]

I've always enjoyed true crime (especially as a lad growing up), but with that said, I do try to consume it more "ethically". I regularly try to engage in content that focuses on the victim (instead of the killer, ew) as well as ones that involve themselves with the family directly. I feel people sensationalize it a lot as if it's this spooky and scary story, but no, these were things that hurt people and haunt their loved ones until the end of time. I appreciate the topic and the fact that you covered it since this really dives into a lot of fragmented thoughts I've had on the topic for ages.

[@vylbird8014]

I don't mind focusing on the killer - but I think it's the wrong sort of focus. The killer* is presented as an acceptable target for the audience to hate - that's part of the appeal of the genre. It gives a figure who is sub-human, a socially acceptable target for vicarious sadism. We can all enjoy seeing the evil one punished. That is /not/ a healthy societal attitude to crime: That the kind of attitude which results in the public cheering for the loss of legal rights and protections because "filth like that don't deserve a trial." *And it's always a killer or rapist - no-one cares about less salacious crimes enough to make TV episodes.

[@wrazzberrie1197]

@@vylbird8014 And almost entirely middle class victims. It's sort of interesting looking at true crime and realizing that most of these stories are about a class of people not very likely to be a victim of serious crime, or at the very least not anywhere near as likely as impoverished, homeless or minorities are. By focusing on the exceptions we can pretend crime is some sort of evil that hunts average people, rather than being an incredibly common occurrence for many people. Like the half a million homeless. I obviously don't mean to imply you're less of a victim or deserve less sympathy if you're privileged, but it seems we focus most of our empathy to those we view with the most to lose, rather than to victims in general.

[@soomiij]

which is why i love elaneor neale

[@mikachu3176]

Would you happen to know some channels or podcast that focuses on the victim instead of the killer?

[@caitlinsnowfrost8244]

I've always been more interested in how the killer got caught than the killer themselves.

[@annalivingtv]

I consumed a lot of true crime in middle school. I mean I became a fan of it because of BBC Sherlock so u can imagine how poor my taste was if you’ve ever seen it. I had psychology books on psychopaths and crime, I listened to a true crime podcast religiously, I truly made it part of my personality. And then I grew out of it and didn’t pay much more attention to it or any further tc content that came out. I grew up, really hit puberty, and became more concerned with things I had viewed as so impossible for me. Kidnapping wasn’t a crazy story I heard about, it was learning how disproportionately girls my race disappeared. Rape wasn’t something terrible some women I would never know experienced, it was a man grabbing for me on the street, my friends all traveling in packs, my new biggest fear. I grew up and things didn’t feel like stories anymore now murder felt like a possibility. I recently thought back on the podcast I followed in middle school and was struck by the realization these were two privileged white women promoting #girlboss feminism one poorly researched 16 yr old dying in a ditch at a time. They cheered when murderers got the death penalty, joked about whether the girls were raped, and made unintentional comments about how they knew better than the victims. And I just imagined if it was either of my sisters they were discussing how I’d feel. Or thought of walking alone and fearing this very thing would happen to me. It was also a lot of cops are good other than a few bad apples, the death penalty is sometimes deserved. Sometimes tc can expose flaws in the justice system but overall I think it poses as more propaganda than criticism. I don’t think tc is inherently always bad I think it informs people. And I don’t put myself above the people who like it necessarily: I’m a huge fan of ghost stories obviously that can run into issues of making a monster out of people that suffered. But tc fans have made being “weird” and “unusual” because they like tc (which it’s possibly the most standard interest in the books let’s admit it) that when they’re really into it they seem incapable of seeing the flaws because they’re some unique higher thinking people. This is a rant that no one will read. Anyways lol I don’t hate tc or fans I just think it demands a kind of empathy and dedication to facts that is rarely found

[@lva1786]

If you don’t mind me asking- which podcast was it?

[@idontneedachannelthanksyou7292]

You’ve made some really great points. I would like to sum it up/add something here: True crime is fun until you realize it could happen to you, and then tc isn’t so quirky anymore

[@disgruntledtoad2585]

@@lva1786 ^^

[@ButtermilkJesusTypeBeat]

@@lva1786 it's "Morbid" most likely

[@sbel6626]

I was massively into true crime as a teenager. Here I am, getting my MSc in CS specializing in cybersecurity and data mining, with hopes of working in digital forensics. True crime is not weird as long as you side with and respect the victims.

[@jadejester3353]

Finally, a good comment

[@cam4636]

Yeah, _Forensic Files_ is what originally got me interested in forensics & I pursued a degree in it (which I don't recommend, the job market is overcrowded). There's an ocean of difference between seeing a tragedy and trying to figure out what happened vs. using it as entertainment. Most of the people in the TC content industry & the audience are using it as entertainment, and in the most 'having a picnic at the public hanging' way possible.

[@howdycowboy247]

As a person in system (law enforcement) based victim services I agree!!!

[@Nakia11798]

Stereotypes are a plague on humanity. Because of the weirdos who Stan serial killers, everyone who takes an interest in crime investigation will now be seen as creepy and cringeworthy. It's a shame bc they'll be the same people complaining that the justice system doesn't work.

[@Izzy_jam]

Completely agree, the issue is glorifying criminals. I want to hear the stories of the victims as long as it’s respectful and the story is oriented towards them, not oriented towards to criminal.

[@jouelzy]

Yeah there's a distinct difference between investigative journalism and what we are being served with the increase of true crime content and alot of ethical lines that are crossed.

[@shayne_has_landed2511]

I live in Northeast Wisconsin, in an area that is still grieving Teresa Halbach. She was taken from this life when I was just a baby, but her presence in the community has never ended. I learned about her case as I grew up. The local news has covered her family’s fight for justice all throughout my life. The stupid Netflix series about the monster who killed her brought up so much pain for the community. Even as a child, I was disgusted and angry at Netflix for creating the monstrosity of a series they decided to air. Netflix just looked past her family and looked past our communities and went ahead with the immoral film they wanted to make. There is no “social benefit” from it, and the people here wish it had never been created.

[@RichielaurensIII]

This hit home so much since, well, I live around there too. Also, There was a case that was especially hard for me to deal with because the victim was about to become my brother.

[@charizard7326]

I like that the bloody part of the costume is not quite as visible, almost like the damage of true crime is not seen.

[@bostonsandatot4948]

My best friend was murdered by a stranger at 18 in 1990. I've only seen her case discussed in two social media areas and hope it's never covered on YT. At the time, it was big news and even on Hard Copy. Her short, bright life's terrifying end isn't bedtime entertainment or a warning for women.

[@anishinaabae]

i'm loving this expansion of the daddy freud shanspeare universe!

[@magnus1383]

I watched Buzzfeed Unsolved, and they had a true crime thing. They also did ghost hunting, and honestly ghost hunting channels have a similar issue of not taking horrific events seriously and sensationalizing it. It's so weird going to place where there was a horrific crime and trying to get random noises to overlay spooky music about it. I like paranormal stuff despite not believing in it, but like come on.

[@smolbean4080]

they are funny lmao

[@j-skullz]

I think people have a disconnect with those because most of them happened so long ago, an event happening before living memory seems to give people a pass to make light of it somewhat. not saying it's right or wrong but I'm pretty sure that's the reason

[@fluffyphoenix8082]

I was a huge fan of Shane and Ryan because of how hilarious they are. Then it kinda hit me how depressing these things were that they talked about. I like their new channel, Watcher, where they focus more on comedic stuff or telling fake scary stories. Feels much better.

[@smolbean4080]

@@fluffyphoenix8082 nah the real ones were the best ones

[@sberky98]

@@fluffyphoenix8082 they have a new channel?

[@DISCUSSTING]

you never miss with the topics you choose! i'm on the edge of my seat for every video!

[@tonioalarcon-borges3619]

As a victim of a recent hate-motivated mass shooting, once the perpetrators have been found and news media covered it in mass I found myself horribly stressed about inaccuracies. Part of me feels guilty for not speaking out and setting it straight, and part of me feels the still healing wounds reopen as I read every article.

[@chaotic.content]

I love true crime but I mostly enjoy creators who genuinely seem to care about the victims. I've told my friends that, if I ever disappear mysteriously, the only person I want to cover my case is Danelle Hallan because she handles things so empathetically. that being said, I've also "binge listened" to true crime stuff so much I gave myself an anxiety attack on at least one occasion lol

[@alidemee8161]

If you like True Crime taken seriously and with integrity watch Stephanie Harlowe!

[@chaotic.content]

@@alidemee8161 oh yeah, I like her too!

[@frozenyogurth]

I think The Casual Criminalist does a good job at that. Simon is always really empathetic to the victims imo.

[@xbvm]

The last part really hit home. Last November I was in a pacific protest with my sister because her friends organized it to commemorate the day against women violence. We were about to head to our homes when an organized crime group attacked the major with a firearm. There were navy's there so there was a fire exchange. A friend of my sister unfortunately lost her life. It was very traumatizing for all of us, including the people who were working inside the government building we were protesting on. My sister and I still have some form of PTSD. However, the media completely exploited the situation. News titles used the day and her gender to make a sensational report. And therefore people across my country started to have a discussion around feminism, whether blaming the victim for being in a protest or condemning the media for not giving enough attention to the bodyguard who lost his life or the photographer who was injured. It seemed like people were looking for something to talk about without even comprehending the situation nor the impact of the event. It was really hard to go outside the next couple of days, because there was either media reporters everywhere or you could overhear someone discussing whether the girl was involved in something criminal. My mother even had to defend her name among her coworkers. My sister and I had to leave social media because it was like reliving that moment. Even right now I have a hard time remembering all of this. But it's important for me to remember people that these kind of things were lived by someone, were heard in court by someone, it's part of someone's life, and they don't choose to go through that. I really appreciate the effort that TCC creators are making to put the victim first, but the audience also needs to do that. I find it more common to see people making theories about what happened to missing people, or who was the killer in a certain crime. People need to stop doing that. Maybe they don't do it with ill intentions, but that doesn't help thr victims in any way. It only puts opinions on something someone lived, and that's not okay. I really don't know how to end this comment. I appreciate the fact that TCC has had some change about the way they approach the events they talk about, but there's still a lot that needs to be talked about. With the speed that information moves, I hope we can see a positive change soon. TL;DR I lost someone in a pacific protest were the media set the ground for a discussion around feminism instead of organized crime (who killed two people in the event). People always try to put their opinions on events, whether by making comments on the media, the justice system, the victim, the perpetrator, etc. or by making theories surrounding the event. And people should stop that because it doesn't helps the victims and it only reminds them of that event.

[@keomeow1936]

My FAVOURITE yt chanel for true crime is " Dreading " the narrator doesn't show their face, there's no gimmick, and they are 100% impartial. They don't insert their opinion it's just all of the facts compiled into a neat timeline. It feels like true journalistic reporting, not a hobby or a commodity.

[@maffieduran]

I thought of them first, so far the only person who did not victim blame Bianca Devins and who made the best video on Christina Grimmie. And the way they choose to highlight the victims' lives and paint them in a positive light is admirable

[@blooblegoopdar4971]

@@maffieduran eleanor neale doesnt victim blame bianca either! her video on bianca was great, she really portrayed her killer as the complete and utter loser he is

[@livwilliams7786]

His videos are fantastic. I was never into True Crime until my sister sent me his video on Josh Duggar. I’ve since seen every single one of Dreading’s videos. After I watched them all, I tried looking up other content and a video by That Chapter came up. I couldn’t even stand 5 minutes of listening to that guy. He was making jokes and his commentary came across so unprofessional. I was sickened.

[@gaz9317]

Another channel i love "heavy casefiles." Is the same way. No name, no face, just centered on the victim and raising awareness

[@Chuck_EL]

@@maffieduran disturbed reality is another good channel about victims of the drug cartels

[@chrisk5985]

As someone who has consumed true crime content for a very long time from a very young age, I'm always very deliberate in the content I choose to consume. I consume true crime content to learn how to stay safe, to learn more about the criminal justice system and what I can do to help serve justice, and to gain insight into the psychology of people who commit crimes. I cannot stand the people who over dramatize things to make it cinematic, who use it as a an aesthetic or personality trait, who narrate it in a "creepy" tone, or people who do their makeup while narrating these stories. It's important to me to consume this content from people who are respectful, do their research, give things the time they deserve, and focus on the victims and their families rather than the perpetrators. The commodification of true crime through merchandise (shirts and pins that say "true crime addict" or "true crime and chill" etc) are another thing that really rubs me the wrong way.

[@rosegiacomini260]

That comment from TOE about mass incarceration is extremely why I've stopped consuming true crime content. Even podcasts like Some Place Under Neith that talk about standing by the marginalized and telling stories about forgotten victims end almost every episode with 'I don't believe in the death penalty BUT'. Without fail, a lot of creators do not understand even after consuming so many tales of corrupt police, judges, or other authority figures, the justice system serves misused power and harm more than it prevents them. As someone mentally ill, thank you Aaron for your take, too. "Criminality" is not as simple as true crime makes it out to be.

[@jessiklovecine]

Coffehouse Crime is the only channel I feel comfortable with as Adrian does a great job of remembering victims for who they were and the light they brought into the world instead of reducing their memory to who took their lives. I find it weird though that some ppl act as if True Crime is a “millennials and gen-z being insensitive” thing because back in Brasil in the early 2000s we had a very popular nighttime show called Linha Direta in which True Crimes were retold - even featuring people involved - and at the end they showed a picture of the criminals who were often still at large (and mind you, thanks to the show many criminals were caught bc of their hotline.) Today at 23 I laugh because I was scared back then that they would come after little old 7 year old me just for watching the show 💀 True Crime being entertainment is definitely nothing new and though I don’t find it particularly any more disrespectful than movies or shows inspired by real tragedies, I do think some people have grown too comfortable including jokes and unnecessary details (like going into details of how victims were SA’d instead of just stating they were SA’d and moving on.)

[@mutantbrain92]

Watch Mr.Ballen, he does a good job.

[@SpecialBlanket]

CC fan here too. Try Emma Kenny, Kimbyrleigha, and maybe That Chapter.

[@SpecialBlanket]

oh and Kendall Rae bigtime

[@manansingh9197]

Wendigoon is pretty good too imo.

[@Amanbruh]

Coffeehouse crime does it impeccably. Never over sensationalizes it, often makes digs at the criminal, brings a lot of color to the personality of the victim, where they came from, and their loved ones. If there is something about the victim that impacts the case such as race he will touch on that and also points out the mistakes the professionals in the case make as to not make it seem like a police hero story

[@asserm.8047]

this is an incredible essay. i usually check channels out to see if ill like the majority of their content but this time im just subscribing immediately, youre too good

[@stephanieg2887]

Be an active true crime viewer. Don’t just indulge. Advocate, spread awareness, donate (time or money), etc

[@ballsdestroyer3000]

spread awareness?

[@stephanieg2887]

@@ballsdestroyer3000 yeah, I mainly refer to missing person cases when it comes to awareness. But also injustices and lack of motivation for policing forces to find missing persons or charging criminals for their murders/abuses

[@kernelkelly1213]

True crime itself can end up objectifying people (mainly women) as disposable victims. It's strange that we romanticize content that ends usually ends up making light of rape and/or murder.

[@AmonAnon-vw3hr]

It's the opposite, male victims are seen as disposable.

[@WhitneyDahlin]

‼️I wanted to mention something that wasn't brought up. The fact that death itself is so fascinating for a culture that does everything it can to make you forget about death and forget you will die. In our culture today when a loved one dies we call the EMTs the body is taken straight to a funeral home and the next time we see them they're peacefully laying in a casket or we have sanitized ashes. That isn't how it's been for all of human history. For all of human history the body stayed with the family until it was time to be buried. We had rituals to help us say goodbye. We washed and dressed the body ourselves and stayed awake with them through the night until they were buried (that's where our concept of the Wake comes from today.) People don't know how to deal with death. And with medical science getting better and better every year many people are very lucky to not have anyone they love tragically die until they are in their thirties forties even fifties and those who do have someone they love die it's a sanitized experience you aren't involved in. I think it has more to do with True Crime is the only way people can safely interact with death. At the back of our minds we all know we are going to die. But we never think about it. We do everything we can to think about anything else. We convince ourselves that social media drama means something, that what outfit we wear today means something, that what stores we choose to shop at mean something, when it doesn't. You could die tonight. You could die tomorrow. Statistically someone reading this comment will be dead by this time next week. And if you live your whole life like you're not going to die like you have all the time in the world you are going to die with regrets.

[@WhitneyDahlin]

@@loveandsqualor I see what you're saying and first off I'm very sorry you and the people you love are suffering like this. It must be heartbreaking and I'm very sorry for your losses. ❤️ But I was specifically talking about American culture not countries where death is open and common. I am very sorry you are having to go through this in your country. I understand for someone who has to interact with death everyday they want to do everything they can to forget about it. But here in America we have the opposite problem. Everyone lives like they will live forever and they care about and stress themselves out and get upset about things that don't matter in the end. And I believe true crime provides a way for people to safely interact with death in a culture where most people have no experience with death.

[@prinxe4230]

If I die and a yt woman starts talking about my murderer while being fascinated on a podcast about me I’ll come back from the dead to get her myself

[@localfairy_1113]

And she holding a beauty blender ISTG she will be the next murder victim

[@aspannas]

youtube woman??

[@prinxe4230]

@@aspannas yeah, kinda

[@WildArtistsl]

Me too I haunt the mf until they stop

[@rawfermews4186]

Me

[@DianaGarcia-sf6em]

I hate when I'm browsing the comments and someone just comments "I put your videos on to help me sleep". In my opinion that is so disrespectful because the video is based on someones actual life, and their tragedy. And they are listening to the story of the worst moment of their life to fall asleep?

[@rebeccalewis8551]

Or when subscribers comments about wearing makeup, their clothes or their hair and they'll comment on that instead, it feels so disrespectful and of course has nothing to do with the video

[@absolutelypitiful3837]

I don't think it's that crazy, simply because humans prefer to be scared of something that they can understand, rather than worry without knowing why. It's why it's comforting in a sense.

[@DianaGarcia-sf6em]

@@absolutelypitiful3837 i get your point but I also feel that there is millions of other things that can comfort you. And it is insensitive to use someone's tragedy as your comfort.

[@RinzlerIsTron123]

I think part of that has to do with the voice not the content, like yes Casefile covers very serious content but I have fallen asleep to it because I find the hosts voice to be very soothing and he speaks with a steady rhythm, it’s not that I find the content soothing I find the voice soothing

[@kannot1]

My mental health was suffering... I became paranoid I would be kidnapped at any turn💀👀

[@MinaAdem-t8q]

As somebody who used to actually sympathize with serial killers and romanticize it, ive moved on. But watching this video helped me realize my faults and what it is i need to fix. Something that will help is cutting out true crime and violent content. Things like that desensitized me so fucking much. To the point if go on websites and watch videos of fellow human beings, people eith family, friends, and loved ones being murdered in cold blood. I will be seeking help. I thank you so much for opening my eyes.

[@bia8826]

Honestly, your video came in such perfect timing. Right now, in Brazil, a recent podcast named "a mulher da casa abandonada" wich translates to "the woman in the abandoned house", made by a journalist about Margarida Bonetti, who enslaved another brazilian woman for 20 years in the US, blew up and most people are treating it like it's just a show!! When hiding from the FBI, after they found out all about it, the criminal started living in an abandoned house in a posh neighborhood with no water or electricity in São Paulo, SP, until a few days ago, that she ran away from there to hide somewhere else because the locals started crowding around her house all the time like it was a touristic point !! It's really strange how people are putting this woman in a pedestal and getting excited over this like it's just a crime fiction and forget that this envolves actual human beings, wich one of them has gone through such traumatizing years.

[@lizzie31]

Does anyone else find it a lot harder to follow the subtitles when they're in lowercase (and sometimes without punctuation)? I won't ask Shan to change it if it's (somehow) literally just me but I have processing issues and tend to need clear, accurate subtitles to be able to follow things sometimes. Not sure if there's any other reason than perhaps 'for the aesthetic' but if I'm not the only one who it really messes with when trying to follow along, perhaps it's a good idea to change it (or at least offer a clearer subtitle track in addition)?

[@s29nv1sr1]

I agree with you, I personally prefer the subtitles with correct punctuation and capitalization (edit: but I'm not sure if I have skin in this game because I can just easily listen to the audio if I don't like the subtitles, unlike people who rely heavily on subtitles)

[@kwarra-an]

Totally agree, I have the same issue

[@katiebailey3439]

Recently I've been listening to Behind the B**stards and it's interesting, but I was recently reminded of why I don't listen to true crime. It is incredibly painful to hear how much pain a person can cause. I can't really deal with that when my anxiety already has enough fuel with just the daily news. Also, I am paranoid, so no need to make that worse.

[@abi5068]

true crime culture never sat right with me. it was a big fear of mine when my friend was murdered that some randos would tell her story inappropriately

[@hi-rh9cq]

this is an amazing commentary. You've spoken out about things that have bothered me for a while but also introduced me to whole new views. Thank you

[@MB-ic3ou]

True crime traumatised me and heightened my anxiety and paranoia to the extreme. I had to completely disconnect from anything true crime related for years bc it put me on edge. As a woman, being murdered/abused is a genuine fear that we experience daily so i’ve never understood the fascination with it.

[@NK-qw5vt]

A bit late but: It's well documented that while crime rates are decreasing almost everywhere, increased reporting convinces people that crime is more prevalent than it used to be. Even when you know this isn't true, reading or hearing about crime will make you think about it more. It really depends on how you react emotionally, you could become more cynical, more safety conscious or more anxious. I personally stopped reading/listening to almost all tc because I noticed I was getting simultaneously desensitized and frustrated. I've only ever been interested in unsolved cases or those involving major police/court f-ups anyway, where there's a public interest aspect to getting information out. But I felt like I started to turn into this **yelling at TV but not doing anything** cliche. Now I stick to local reporting when there's something to raise awareness about with people I know. I don't have any relevant audience and I don't even live in the US anymore so outside of maybe two subreddits where I report any doxing or harassment I happen to see, there's no point in sacrificing my mental health. One podcast I'm still interested in is True Crime BS because there's still a lot to figure out where the public can help, including a literal scavenger hunt for weapons caches all over the US (and maybe Canada) and if it was more widely known and everyone interested just went out to look around some rocks or boat ramps in their area, I'm sure they'd find something eventually. This is a project that can and should be crowdsourced. On my own crime related worries/anxieties: I live in a first floor apartment that had been broken into before I moved in. There are still tool marks on my door and window. Since I can't change them, I got a cheap but loud door alarm and a motion sensor light, and I set up my old phone as a security camera. My house phone lives on a windowsill so its red LED is visible through the blinds and looks like there's more alarms. I set a lamp on a timer when I leave for more than a day. (planning to upgrade this to WiFi and coordinate with my phone alarm someday so it can double as a wakeup light). Spent about 20€ and an afternoon in total and that's as much mental and financial effort as I'm willing to put into worrying about it rn. But it really helps when you can do something productive. It doesn't have to be expensive or take up much time. Or make some safety measures fun instead of scary. Like when I walk at night without headphones, I listen to my surroundings not for scary people but animals like owls and all the local cats. Turns out my town has three different owl species. I play around with the keys in my pocket which also helps with the urge to smoke/vape (my main motivation was just being fidgety). Something like a steel thermos mug can be used to sip tea from and as a weapon. Realistically though, I'm probably more likely to be bitten by someone's dog than assaulted by humans.

[@AmonAnon-vw3hr]

Women are most likely to be killed by people they wilfully bring into their lives.

[@beyoncenoona]

12:07 !!!! I've always felt so weird and uneasy about people doing their make up or eating while they tell these REAL stories of REAL people being killed... idk it just...doesn't sit right with me, they treat these people and what happened to them like a story to tell and that's it. I visited the Museum of Death in LA back in 2019, and as I walked through the "museum" I felt more and more icky? like I felt wrong that I was essentially contributing to the dehumanization of these victims ? it's mostly just really gruesome crime scene photos, displays detailing different mass suicides or notable crime scenes, relics from actual crime scenes (but with how strict they are with filming or even just having your phone out, I doubt that most of the items are actually from the crime scene they're claiming it's from) and then it ends at a "funeral home" where they are showing an old medical instructional video of an autopsy and there's a whole corner dedicated to GG Allin (which is a kind of weird if you know anything about that man). You exit the museum through their giftshop where you can purchase t-shirts, pins, and different merch items that have the faces and names of these serial killers on them. You can get yourself a hoodie that has a cartoon drawing of John Wayne Gacy and a pin of The Night Stalker to go with it, you can get a mug that has the first names of some infamous serial killers listed out like they're the cast on the TV show FRIENDS, you know, so people can know you're a real true crime fan... There is no way to spin it, they straight up are glorify these killers. You don't have to outright praise someone in order to idolize and glorify them, having the only photos of the killer's victims be the photos of their dead bodies but having a ton of photos of the killer is proof of that. Having every inch of available wall space occupied by explicit crime scene photos, with no identifying information is gross in more ways than just ew blood and guts. idk what I was expecting, I was hoping to learn more about the victims and the killers' motivations or even get more of a backstory to certain cases but it was just a side show attraction, but to be fair they don't market themselves as anything other than that.

[@huntforbigfloptober1333]

I really liked Cayleigh Elise’s channel because she did lesser known cases and tried to direct her viewers to give information to authorities to help solve those cases. She has since left KZbin but I heard someone’s reuploaded her videos. Personally I really dislike the mukbang/ beauty parlor videos. It just seems really gross and I can’t explain why. This video has definitely made me stop and rethink the content I’ve watched. My mom is a peace officer so I’ve been exposed to true crime content my whole life. I never thought twice about it. Now I think of it I’m subbed to a few channels that are more on the exploitation side of things. Lately I’ve been really trying to seriously evaluate what I think is actually okay. One recently had a video about torture on a POW in the Ukrainian war and I felt it was trashy. In that moment I realized the level of cognitive dissonance I was going through where I didn’t think discussing the “Chechlear” gore video was as bad as something currently happening. Aren’t they the same? What’s the time limit before discussing a war crime video clip becomes not trashy? What does this say about me? I wish I knew. I still grapple with that since it hit me. Especially weirder is how I find the gritty content creators are less off putting than the beauty and mukbang channels. :/

[@gaz9317]

I miss Cayleigh. Im glad she left to preserve her own mental health, but she was great

[@winniundwinni]

I used to listen to wine and crime (you know peak fun true crime content) and it was fun and I enjoyed it. Not for understanding the killers mind, not to help victims, not to prepare myself to feel safer but for cheap entertainment while I did the dishes. I honestly think most ppl saying it's for any other reason are full of shit. It's OK to not be a 100% good person it's OK to engage with problematic content just be aware of it and don't lie to yourself. At some point I was like hey actually I think this is something I don't want to do anymore I really do think it's bad for me and in general so I stopped.

[@maggiedk]

I've always been interested in psychology and true crime (separately and together), but since I've gotten CPTSD from DV and SA, I feel like my consumption of it has definitely increased. I totally agree with the idea that many women are into true crime as a way to almost stay aware of danger, because as a woman with trauma related to violent men, consuming it is absolutely a part of my hypervigilance. Counterintuitively, I feel like my brain actually sometimes feels *safer* while consuming TC - as if being aware of the danger will keep me safe from it, somehow. This definitely isn't always the case, though, as it can and does trigger me sometimes. I just think the interaction between trauma and the consumption of true crime (especially for people socialized as women) is really interesting.

[@mewmew6158]

I feel similarly as someone with really awful thoughts! Idk, I just feel safe while listening sometimes.

[@estelle5185]

I always felt uncomfortable with mukbang/make up true crime channels. I watch true crime channels that work with real-life crime professionals, work with the family and donate to true crime charities. Content like this demands ethical practise.

[@pupbeat]

i liked the subscriber submissions being included in this, they shared some rlly good additional thoughts

[@laindarko3591]

I grew up on a lot of "creepy" and "spooky" online content on KZbin, reddit, and forums, and they were mostly things like urban legends, creepypastas, lost media, "disturbing" Reddit threads, ghost stories, weird historical unsolved mysteries etc. When I would stumbled upon true crime content, it didn't quite scratch the same itch, so I couldn't really get into it. Especially if it's already been solved, it's just the reporting of gruesome events that happened and it's just kind of sad. Unsolved murders somewhat make sense to report on because it's important to expose as many people to the investigation as possible in case someone has key information that could help solve a case. But I really am not interested in hearing the details of the BTK murders for the 300th time. It's done, the killer is in prison, let those souls rest in peace.

[@Jaetheeintrovert]

I definitely agree with the interest in the psychology of why people commit these crimes. I feel the same way. I do not put these killers on a pedestal or praise them. I find their actions interesting and my curiosity wants me to know what they did what they did. I just don’t agree with the act of placing these killers in a positive light or praising them while dismissing the victims family. THAT is sick to me.

[@rawfermews4186]

They don’t have a reason to do it though you know that right?

[@guen4413]

@@rawfermews4186 They always have a reason, but that doesn't mean it's justified. There can be an explanation for something without it being an excuse

[@rawfermews4186]

@@guen4413 okay but to many people justify it

[@christineh86]

I always thought having like a “fun” story time and telling about a horrible crime was weird. It’s so sadistic to take pleasure in other peoples worst tragedy!

[@kannot1]

Some people do true crime while eating (mukbang) even while going into gross detail😭💀 and I'm ashamed I loved it at the time...

[@mossaltminerva]

I feel like people who want something fictional like true crime, especially those who treat it like a fandom would enjoy something like the Magnus archives (if supernatural type stuff is ok) or generally FICTIONAL mystery media!

[@mewmew6158]

I find it interesting how so many people find the eating or doing makeup while talking about a case disrespectful. Maybe it's because of how I grew up odd. I just think of it the same as when my mom would bring up some news story at the dinner table. I'm a multitasker, so I've never seen not giving something 100% attention as disrespectful. Idk I just don't get that particular thing, which is what a lot of people keep bringing up. Maybe it's my autism.

[@randomhuman_05]

It definitely confuses me too, eating may be quite odd, but doing makeup or something similar is probably just because they need to do something with their hands.

[@sourgreendolly7685]

I agree. I processed my own trauma with friends while doing my makeup. I have ADHD, doing something physically while talking helps me focus. And nothing about what you’re saying is odd, I think people are reaching with that particular criticism.

[@leiahibari]

@@sourgreendolly7685 though, its different when its in private vs on a public platform to millions of people where you’re profiting off of someone else’s trauma

[@WIZARDANOMALOCARIS]

A family friend of ours was brutally murdered in a case that is frequently covered by true crime channels. It makes me sick. She deserves better. I remember the day my mom found out, I was so little and I remember her pain. The fact that people will put makeup on or make jokes about her death (among other deaths) is absolutely disgusting. True crime youtube/tiktok/podcasts are awful, and I can't believe it took people this long to realize.

[@Chelaxim]

I've been watching True Crime since forever, Pokémon Saturday morning and America's Most Wanted Satutday night. I've always been turned off by the beauty true crime channels and those people who stan serial killers.

[@HelloSaadiaThings]

I have a cousin who went missing when I was young and still has yet to be found. I can't even begin to discuss how violating it is hearing her case come out of strangers mouth that have done little research and label her as a prostitute that ran away. It is incredibly disheartening.

[@shorthairkorra]

“giving you a tool to be able to critically engage with this content is far more productive than giving you a target” i love this channel more than anything

[@ElizabethVonnegut]

i really enjoy true crime that is educational, and respect sm when creators get the families of victims to consent and even participate in a video. and i think making videos about current missing people is very important. it is really easy to tell who is doing it for good reasons.

[@MadelineClaire]

I'm a little late to this party but the discourse surrounding Netflix's original film "Dahmer" was horrifying.

[@kaylalavenderr]

I love the beginning skits!🥰🥰

[@lexieg72]

I absolutely love BAM. Stephanie does an amazing job with telling the stories. One of the books she's talked about has come to be a book I like. Yall should check it out. Also I agree with the point about giving Serial Killers cool names. They should get names that aren't cool and make them sound stupid. When they have names like Night Stalker or The Ripper, that boosts their ego and we shouldn't be doing that. I feel like when we sensationalize it, people think it's cool when it's not.

[@dollie.luv333]

Stephanie is the only person whose podcasts have made me actually sob into a pillow

[@carlospinheirotorres9499]

Thank you for this great work. You are a rare, wholesome presence and this piece was such a delight to watch ❤

[@SavageEcaterina]

I lost my best friend as a child to her father murdering her and her brother. Tc has kindof become a form of therapy for me. That there are others out there who feel the same pain and desire for justice they have been denied. There is also this little part of me that wants to keep them alive by remembering what was done to them and remembering who they were. The idea that just for a minute they still live and belong in this world by remembering them.

[@MeghanBean]

I think it’d be cool if someone started a channel about non-murder mysteries

[@manwhoismissingtwotoenails4811]

That's a good idea.

[@AmonAnon-vw3hr]

There's heaps of mysterious disappearance channels.

[@sigmascrub]

My mom loves this one true crime podcast where the interviewer is constantly leading the person being interviewed who is someone close to the victim. Instead of "how did you feel?" it's "you must have felt ____" even when the rest of the interview suggests nothing like what she says. It's gross and I hate that she's constantly listening to that

[@bunnyraptor420]

I'm not much for podcasts, and when it comes to true crime, the only person I watch for that type of content is Danelle Hallen because she speaks of cases with so much respect and compassion.

[@noproblemchild]

First video, instantly subscribed. I wasn't sure what to expect but you covered a big subject with a wide lens and I'm so interested in hearing more ✨

[@herecomedatboi9646]

Edit: I've only watched her longform researched videos, not her coffee and crime nor her podcasts/off channel videos or QnAs. But its come to my attention Stephanie has a bunch of issues w her too. I don't sub to any true crime channels now so lol no defense for them. Original comment: "This is why the only true crime I watch is Stephanie Harlow. I used to watch Elenore Neale a little over a year ago but she got insensitive and I started to realize how clickbaity her titles and thumbnails felt. Too many people treat all this stuff like a circus show rather than real things happening to real people."

[@mm-xk3fk]

The problem it's not only her, but they are too many people that are at fault. I can't believe how insensitive the true crime community has become

[@herecomedatboi9646]

@@mm-xk3fk Oh I'm not saying its her fault, not at all. I was just mentioning how I used to watch her, but even people who were previously more caring about the situation can still go bad.

[@mm-xk3fk]

@@herecomedatboi9646 oh my bad if i came off that, your comment def put it well and made me think! Unfortunately, the comments even prove the whole think you mentioned. People watch these like it is another episode of criminal minds or something.People shouldn't blame the consumers but rather unlearn this werid mentality of watching these like storytimes..

[@Kayla_P99]

I used to watch Stephanie Harlowe until I saw her podcasts, and her coverage on cases where the victims were in poverty. It felt like her care began and ended with victims she could see herself in. It just turned me off but I did really like her long form work for awhile.

[@Kayla_P99]

@@mm-xk3fk just because you mentioned criminal minds, some families have called that show out for basing episodes off of their loved ones deaths without permission or respect. I like that show too but learning that made me think about my fictional crime media consumption too.

[@RIPmichael22]

I noticed you choke up after reading the quote from Ms. Pendleton.. I have a lot of respect for the work that you do. You speak about a lot of impactful topics, and you always do a fantastic job. Much love 🧡

[@golly2596]

ok ill say it it always made me uncomfortable when ppl would praise bailey sarian and always comment how it felt like they were gossiping with their friends while watching her murder mystery and makeup vids.... like its not gossip hello also I hate the way she tells these stories like its a grand old time idk she has always rubbed me the wrong way

[@styl3xp]

Something something Hbomberguy. Have a comment and a like to help with the algorithm at least a teensy bit. Maybe not entirely on topic, but there's one perspective I find interesting; Basically separating reality from fiction and people projecting the inability to separate them on others. Mainly from games and movies of course, there's been plenty of discourse about violence and death in said media. I never really got much into those discussions because I thought it was horseshit. But it was not until I by chance saw a clip of a shooting (Christchurch one I believe). I'll spare the details. Seeing that.. made me feel miserable. Now people comparing death in a game or movie to death in real life suddenly became disgusting to me. They might think they're doing a good thing (or just don't know any better), but to me they are making light of real human suffering by comparing it to pure fiction and claiming that it is the same thing. Anyway. I hope everyone who has to deal with seeing their loved ones being paraded as content is doing okay, and get their time to heal.

[@fuzzydays5699]

Ayeee, my TOE submission got in. I still maintain the same stance that discussions of True Crime in the True Crime Community would improve by extracting itself from the fandomification of the content. Not just by the consumers themselves, but also the ways in which the creators promote their content.

[@ryderdoessomething3890]

Still really would love to see a fictional true crime podcast.

[@korneliaholmedal5162]

I love watching true crime content because I love learning about the different cases and find them interesting. I am interested in why some people become criminals and was considering studying crimonology. When it comes to the true crime content creators I watch, I feel like they are pretty respectfull.

[@celisewillis]

I really appreciate how you point out that it's more important to give an audience the tools to draw more informed conclusions rather than point out "this one person is a garbage".

[@grassgeese3916]

Glad to hear there's conversation surrounding this. I fought violently to save my life and to save my lil siblings lives when i was maybe ten years old or so. And I continued living with those adults basically performing conflict resolution and therapy for a few more years until I decided it was safe and it was time to run away. There's so much guilt anger pure feelings of tragedy... I never took kindly to the culture of dark-fantasy and morbid curiosity towards abuse and violence, especially towards children. Thank you for your input Shanspeare, much appreciated. I hope people in this world learn to put their energy towards producing something or investing their efforts to meaningful work, like feeding homeless people with the church or local Food Not Bombs, rather than consuming just for entertainment. Your videos are entertaining! And they are also informative!!! Thank you Shanspeare for catching this portion of the population, that needs to be entertained as they are educated!

[@piecebypiece2028]

I like the true crime guy who covers these cases from the victims perspective. It really makes you feel for the victim and feel the horror of the events. I forget his name, but he also covers wendigos and other cyrptids. I like it because it never feels like he's glorifying the killers and I often learn more about the victim than the killer.

[@jessicaharrison4719]

It is human nature to be fascinated by crime, the more extreme, the more fascinating. We want to know how it happened, could it be prevented, and also feel safer because it didn't happen to us. I don't feel bad for enjoying such things, but I also don't seek them out anymore - my anxious brain gives me enough macabre images, thank you very much.

[@tumbke]

It’s kinda weird how i never stumbled on the mukhbang/makeup trend of the true crime niche in youtube.

[@abductedbyaliens9425]

This is why I enjoy the Beyond Evil channel. In every episode they do they always wish their condolences to the victim, their families and their friends who suffered a loss due to the person who took the victims life away.

[@swagingexo_osh8487]

I swear everytime you upload a video I drop everything and rush to get a drink and find a place to immediately sit down and just listen because your video essays never disappoint

[@Melissa-zr6zw]

I don’t think it’s inherently wrong to make criminal cases easier to stomach learning about. Crime scene footage/photos and 911 calls are chilling and often hard to see or listen to (as a true crime media consumer myself); but because I see these stories as important cautions against ways that I can put myself or others in danger, I still want to know what happened. Anyone can be a potential victim of a serious crime, therefore it’s a positive thing in my opinion to make this information as accessible as we can so it reaches and informs those who are at risk/make risky choices. Whether the content creators themselves are respectful and play up the drama for engagement is a case-by-case issue, rather than a systemic problem that’s enough to condemn the entire media genre. I saw it pointed out in another video’s comments section that the subconscious assumption of applying makeup being a vain, self-centered activity is partially what’s driving this unilateral disapproval of the “true crime and makeup” subgenre in particular. But for a lot of people, doing their makeup is no less unimportant than brushing their teeth, so it’s not a distracting or disrespectful aspect of the content. Bailey Sarian is a makeup artist who has ADHD and has said before that it’s just something to do with her hands while she records; it’s a mundane task for her. A lot of viewers of these videos also end up just listening to them rather than actively watching, so the makeup really takes a backseat and isn’t the focus whatsoever. I can only speak specifically on Bailey’s content, though, and I agree that the victims’ relatives and loved ones always deserve due respect and deference on whether media about their stories should be made or not.

[@CL-jw4ei]

What personally turned me off Bailey wasn’t the Make-up but that she more than once didn’t get the story right, it seemed like she did minimal research on the cases compared to other youtubers and just wanted an interesting video topic to get views on and on top of that her videos had a very lighthearted, all which I think is ok with other topics but not when discussing the tragic end of someone’s life… like if she was talking about scary internet videos or creepy pasta it wouldn’t bother me but that’s just disrespectful… I stoped watching after that so maybe her content has changed since

[@sourgreendolly7685]

Thank you! I’m not big on Bailey personally, but people saying doing your makeup while discussing TC is inherently disrespectful. A lot of us discuss personal, even traumatic things while doing our makeup. There are plenty of things to criticize but I just don’t think that doing one’s makeup while discussing cases is morally wrong somehow.

[@BiggerinRealLife]

Plain Bad Heroines is one of my favorite books and you just threw a reference in there like nbd. I love you for it. 👍🏼

[@bobi200samatar6]

The only true crime stuff I watch are documentaries covering cases that are decades old. I never really paid attention to true crimes channels online.

[@lacedupangel]

people say that giving murderers stupid names like bert the loser would make people lose interest but honestly it would just make me more curious because of how hilarious the name is

[@_mothmanisreal]

Your intros are IMMACULATE

[@ActuallyAnanya]

Ok but can we talk about how much true crime content is copaganda and how much the focus is only on white women as victims? Can we talk about it

[@wompppwompwomppp]

i was a fan of true crime until i was witness to a murder. then it hits too close and you see how just reporting on stuff can harm if not done in a specific way.

[@EvanBear]

Indigenous women are disproportionately often victims of crimes in america, that's where the spotlight should be at least for the moment.

[@accounfour2402]

If its not fun to watch whats the point lol. Why politicize it so hard, who cares

[@EvanBear]

@@accounfour2402 I don't think that's political in nature per se, those women are more often attacked because they aren't living in well populated areas and their murder will make less waves in the media. You can make a political point out of it but I think what's more important is that there are most likely serial killers that can be found by unraveling those cases. It's a peculiar pattern, even ignoring anything related to politics. Plus I'm not american, I don't really care about american politics, I just think that's a little suspicious...

[@accounfour2402]

@@EvanBear not talking only about the women im talking about it as a whole

[@_stillborn]

Yeah, god forbid blacks are not the center of attention

[@lurji]

@@_stillbornbased

[@saturnistic]

two friends of mine were killed in a double homicide, and with my older sibling being their best friend and also a key witness in the case, i was extremely aware of all of the details of the case from the beginning. since then, so many articles and videos and podcast episodes have been made about their case with little to no care whatsoever. many news articles had been incredibly inaccurate, which meant a lot of tc creators would get them wrong, they'd be entirely tasteless in their presentations and make jokes in the same breath that they'd speak about their murder. i've seen so many comment sections just absolutely full of people finding some way to assert that the killer was actually innocent or deserving of pity, or that they deserved what happened to them somehow. and often the police would get praised for the job they did, despite the fact that my friends had been reported missing days beforehand and the police never took it seriously until their bodies had been found by friends and family instead. and every single time we've ever approached a tc creator to tell them that we didn't want their story to be covered in the tcc, every single time, we were met with rudeness and vitriol, proving that there's a problem in the community with creators not actually caring about the victims or their loved ones. i think the thing that gets me the most is that, even if the content being made about my friends was accurate and respectful, they wouldn't have wanted the attention regardless. i have a hard time picturing them resting easy when they've been made into a spectacle for the whole world to gawk at. i can't stop tc creators, despite my effort, and i certainly can't stop people from consuming it either. but i just think that maybe the community as a whole needs to listen to the loved ones of the victims more, and for that, i'll never be quiet about it. i used to enjoy tc myself before all of this, and now it just leaves a very, very bad taste in my mouth.

[@theghostfacekza4549]

I think it's funny that Kendall Rae was mentioned as a good crime KZbinr, It's definitely great that she reaches out but I don't think she portrays the stories as anything more than something to gossip over and the comments definitely solidify that feeling. Unrelated to the previous comment but anyone pretending that this true crime horror content is for the betterment of society or is helping the human condition is wildly off base. You can listen to a factual breakdown of electrical conversions on KZbin and it's still probably just entertainment content regardless of how much information comes from it. For the most part if it's not a tutorial it's probably just entertainment to pass time, same with National Geographic shows or History Channel (Pre-Aliens) series