Shame Must Switch Sides: It's Okay to Not Want Pornified Sex

[@mousenation3867]

Even if nobody steals or shares photos, data leaks and hijacked accounts are real. Phones get lost and just believe people can then get them unlocked with your stuff still in there, nothing is as secure as we hope.

[@audreynicholson3066]

"Just because men have abused their position, doesn't mean it's not Yah's design." 🙄 The same song & dance works for "headship".

[@marywynne7931]

Thank you for speaking up. I strongly disagree with both the radical left and the radical right for having a possessive and pornified view of sex. Women are not sex objects, and sex isn't casual. I never thought I'd get to the point where Christianity or secular feminism (let alone both) started promoting literal, actual porn.

[@susantailby3755]

Fascinating discussion - again it boils down to the idea that sex is about physical release for him (or he'll die/blow up), rather than intimacy, connection and fun for both. Love Rebeca's comments =)

[@renearosser1466]

The women who don’t want to send those photos are not really doing it to make their husbands happy. It’s because of the guilt they feel that if they don’t they are not being a good wife. Also , because they are taught that men matter more. And this honors God.

[@emmaOuiMonAmi]

51:07 is cracking me up 😂, Shiela is savage with that 2 minutes comment 😂😂😂

[@PamelaDavis-j7t]

I love you speaking up and putting these so called evangelical authors in there place. I’m so tired of uneducated books called Christian books!

[@StrongAtheist68]

Josh Butler described Christ as a male genital. And he described the Holy Spirit as sperm. His book was extremely goofy. I understand why the secular people and the Christians were angry at him.

[@lisajohnson4744]

Gotta love how Gospel Coalition threw him under the bus when this started to blow up, too. Nothing like teamwork!

[@dorothyinman4632]

This was by far probably one of my favorite podcasts you guys have done thus far. I cringed at the topic only because I’m not surprised that someone like Gary T is still spouting this lack of research nonsense, but I also laughed so much. Evangelicals taut the lofty goal of being in the world but not of it, but fail to realize how much they are feeding the shaming and objectifying women industry. In 2021 to write a book that makes the responsibility of a couple’s sex life fall solely on the wife is disgusting. That women are being told they are responsible to keep their husbands pure so they have to send nudes to their husband is just gross. Gary was also given an opportunity to admit his short fallings, but instead blamed Sheila, a woman, for misinterpreting what he so clearly said. This pod was also important because it talked about the fact that women do not need to feel shame around what they do sexually but as long as they are being respected by their partner and giving consent without coercion. We can be sec positive and be Christians. We can be sex positive, but part of that is not just doing anything because your husband needs or demands it, but because you want to do it. Thank you for the laughs but also advocating for women everywhere that no means no and men need to grow up and take a woman’s no seriously.

[@SheilaWrayGregoire]

Thanks so much, Dorothy! Glad you liked it. :) And share it! Let's get the word out. I really had fun with this one too!

[@CryssyJ]

I know the subject is serious, but I'm not feeling well today and want to thank Rebecca for making me laugh out loud at, "Billy earned his allowance." 😅

[@carlamariee1]

Is, "You are shaming women and not sex positive", the new "You sound angry and bitter"?

[@SheilaWrayGregoire]

HA! Likely!

[@lisajohnson4744]

😂 Most likely!

[@nursemarie4819]

I wonder if Gary Thomas will watch this - of course, he will never admit he was wrong

[@SheilaWrayGregoire]

I find that so sad. We're not criticizing his character, just what he wrote. How hard is it to say, "Yeah, I got that wrong?" Especially when you're supposed to love Jesus and care about people?

[@brighidmcmullen9577]

I just went on Amazon and looked up Josh Butler’s book and read the 1 star reviews. I thought I was prepared. I in fact, was not!! Oh My GOD!!! If you need a good laugh read them! But how? How? HOW was this book published?????

[@SheilaWrayGregoire]

I will never understand! You think of how many people had to read and edit it to get to that point...

[@brighidmcmullen9577]

@ something that I’ve experienced that I find really really sad is I have gotten healthier, safer sex messages in secular romance novels (which have frankly undone a lot of purity culture damage) than almost anything I’ve gotten from the Christian sphere. Even Christian romance novels, the guy will admire the woman’s curves - which is Christianeze for her butt, boobs, etc. - but the female characters never notice more than his muscular arms and maybe his shoulders, if they are being real risqué. The message being that men can lust and think sexual thoughts but good Christian girls like the role models in these novels don’t do that.

[@ccarlton4511]

What if you're able to reach climax regularly, but you just aren't into "adventerous" the way he is? Like, that kind of "adventurous" isn't a turn on.

[@SheilaWrayGregoire]

You're allowed to have your own boundaries! And if he doesn't honor those, that's a huge red flag that your relationship has some dynamics that need to be addressed.

[@MalloryNewcomb]

18:50 That’s really good ladies. That reframe would save a lot of heartache

[@MalloryNewcomb]

1:08:43 Ooooh that’s good. A little louder for the people in the back!

[@emilypayne8394]

I haven't read Josh Butler's book, but the way you describe some of his ideas sound very reminiscent of Pope John Paul II's Theology of the Body. I know it's a bit outside the evangelical mainstream, but it might be something worth you looking at for how it has had wider influence.

[@lesliekanengiser8482]

Heres the question I have. If i have always struggled to act like a sexual being in marriage due to a strict upbringing, how does one determine whether one has an honest boundary in sex or if it's a personal hangup and one just needs to get over it? In other words, i should be free with my affection with my husband. Yet, its very difficult to turn off the purity button and turn on the sexual being button

[@brighidmcmullen9577]

I didn’t grow up in a sex-positive environment either and I can relate. Something that really helps is being honest with your partner and listening to your body and emotions. If you or your spouse want to do something, both of you need to be on the same page that if either of you decide that it doesn’t feel right/enjoyable etc that it stops. And saying no is ALWAYS okay. Feeling safe in and out of the bedroom when it comes to your partner is crucial. Take it slow, stop when necessary, and talk about what felt good, what didn’t, what felt safe, what made you feel loved and treasured etc. I’m still working on this myself. It’s a process undoing the damage, but if we are kind to ourselves I believe that we will get there.

[@lisajohnson4744]

And that’s OK. Your boundaries need to be honored no matter what they stem from. This is what establishes trust for you to be able to heal from the toxicity.

[@paulcolour3030]

I know it's slightly off topic but I'm not sure I understand manic-pixie-dream girl correctly, or if I do I'm not sure you're using it correctly.