Sherwood Should Have Retested the FTdx5000 (the MP version)

[@wkboggs5]

Very MUCH enjoyed this vid. Your CW videos particularly on the FDDX 10. I have inspired me to get back into CW, and I have done very little CW for several years. Looking forward to CW POTAl, as well as some SOTA now.

[@aj2isotadxing]

Great video. Amazing what Yaesu can do. I was never a die hard “fan boy” of a certain brand but Yaesu is starting to convince me they make the best DSP in the business.

[@n4hnhradio]

They do make the absolute best DSP. I just hate to like Yaesu because of some of the missed opportunities. They can achieve a 9 or even 9.5 out of 10 and miss something simple. But, compared to some of the others, they are still geniuses. 73, de N4HNH

[@miker8379]

I realize your doing a on air test. Does the Sherrwood lab test with the footnote phase noise limited enter into the difference in the lab but on air seems more equal?

[@n4hnhradio]

The phase noise limited footnote refers to the fact that the phase noise of the local oscillator, not filter leakage or blow-by, is what became the limiting factor. In other words the filters are so good and tight that the phase noise was the limiting factor. Phase noise results from random fluctuations in the local oscillator. In recent years Yaesu has achieved greatness in local oscillator design. This allows a receiver to benefit from the selectivity of the superheterodyne approach without the traditional trade-off of phase noise. Each oscillator stage in a superheterodyne receiver adds phase noise. Here’s how some people get fooled by clever marketing hype. There was an era when we had triple superheterodyne and quad superheterodyne receiver options. Sounds great, right? Four is better than three and three is better than two, etc. The price tag certainly made it seem so. Well, there was an improvement, in terms of selectivity. But the cost for such selectivity was in the noise floor. Not atmospheric noise, but phase noise, as a result of not one, not two, but three or four local oscillators, and their random fluctuations. You could disconnect your antenna and still have a noise floor. Taking advantage of some advancements in mixer and oscillator components, Yaesu redesigned their oscillators to be incredibly stable. And with improvements in filtering, optional preselectors, and advanced DSP, a third or fourth receiver stage was no longer needed. Then Yaesu took it one step farther. They mated their super low-noise superheterodyne receiver with a SDR stage, before handing off to the DSP stage. The fact that the dual-superheterodyne/SDR hybrid receivers in the FTdx10 and FTdx101D still beat the pure SDR receivers in Rob Sherwood’s list says a lot about the stability of Yaesu’s local oscillator design. I hope this helps. 73, de N4HNH

[@miker8379]

@@n4hnhradio good info. Not sure about the 101 but the dx10 was not phase noise limited probably because of the hybrid design. The 5000 was the one with the footnote

[@n4hnhradio]

Ahhhh… I see where the confusion is. Let me clarify. The 5000 was tested in 2010. The official RMDR test started in 2012. So the numbers for the 5000 had to interpolated, like numerous other superheterodyne receivers in the list, as noted by the ‘f’ footnote. The FTdx101 and FTdx10 numbers aren’t interpolated. They are from an actual RMDR test. The note regarding the FTdx101 LO concerned a correction related to LO noise. Both the FTdx101 and the FTdx10 are hybrids. In fact, they share the same receiver architecture. What I think explains the performance of my 5000 versus the FTdx10 is that I didn’t base the comparison on 500Hz filter width, like Rob Sherwood did. I pulled out all the stops for both radios. I let them do the best they can do. I used a 300Hz roofing filter and enhanced that with digital filtering set to 50Hz. I also let the 5000 take advantage of its S. Narrow ( Super Narrow) setting for the APF. The FTdx10 was set to Narrow, which is as tight as it can go. I also used my notch trick with both radios. The manual notch in the FTdx10 is a bit more narrow than the one in the 5000. That helped the FTdx10 recover some ground and compete with the Super Narrow APF in the 5000. Both radios are titans. This was a splitting hairs comparison. 73, de N4HNH

[@davidtrotter7488]

Hey Doug, So the FT-DX10 just got released when I became a HAM a year ago and I could have stretched the budget I had for a brand new FT-991A to an FTDX10. But it was too new and I didn't know what I would enjoy in ham radio so wanted a box that would do VHF / UHF. I think the DX10 is a great rig, but your videos make me want the 5000 MP more. I LOVE the FT-991A and don't regret pulling the trigger on it over the FT-DX10 because I use it on 2M and 70cm 50% of the time for SSTV and local ragchew. The other 50% for SSB, learning CW, FT8, JS8CALL and PAT Winlink from the Raspberry PI. One day I think I will have a 5000MP next to the FT991A. Best 73s 2E0WDT

[@n4hnhradio]

Hi David! No need to regret. If I could only own one radio, it would be the FT-991A. It is closer to the 5000 on receive than many people think. The front-end of the receiver borrows from the architecture of the FTdx5000. Plus you have 2m and 70cm all-mode capability. And the added bonus is that it has a built-in soundcard for FT8, if you’re into that. But, I am having much fun with the FTdx10. The FTdx5000MP is still my favorite, but the FTdx10 is a close second. I can’t imagine the radio that will nudge these two off my desk. If you can possibly keep the FT-991A and just add a 5000 or a 10, you would have the ultimate station. I’m not able to work 2m or 70cm SSB. I would like to someday. 73 my friend! Doug

[@SV1RXI]

Thanks for video.I own a sunsdr2 and order the ftdx10 also yesterday. At the past I have also the 991A ,I sold it .I have heard many good words and opinions for the ftdx10 ,that's why order it .Having also the 7300 but this ovf all the time gets me mad.Now your video about about the 5000 get me thinking hihihihi and is going to make me into trouble hihihi

[@n4hnhradio]

Stay out of trouble my friend. Let me know what you think of the FTdx10. I put it very close to the 5000 in many ways. 73, de N4HNH

[@nsixvl]

The Sherwood website says Rob has retired. He has NOT done any rig testing since 2021. Is this the end of the Sherwood ratings chart?

[@n4hnhradio]

Oh no! I haven’t seen that. But, at least Rob has finally convinced the ARRL to test the RMDR. Thanks for that information! 73, Doug

[@brianumbrell4049]

Love my FTDX-10 .

[@n4hnhradio]

It is a game-changer for sure. Room for improvement? Sure! But mighty good. 73, de N4HNH

[@W-733_KWX]

I agree with your title. 5000 is on my wish list, just waiting for a mint one to come up.

[@n4hnhradio]

You shouldn’t have to wait very long. Many people sell a great radio to buy something pretty. Just keep watching the forums. 73, de N4HNH

[@BobGarrett66]

@@n4hnhradioPersonnally I’d say you’re getting the prettiest radio there is with the 5K, not to mention a great radio in general. I waited and waited and finally got mine. I actually think I got a brand new, “old stock” radio. I not only can’t find a speck of dust on it, EVERYTHING was still in its plastic bag. Not to mention warranty card, world map and manuals all untouched. Doug I’ve watched a lot of your videos and appreciate your content very much. I’m still making my way though the vast 5K library you have put together for us. Thank you!

[@n4hnhradio]

Welcome! I’m glad you like the content. No radio yet has changed my mind about the 5000. Still my favorite.

[@lucianoferretti7581]

Con questi apparati non ce più da strabiliarsi come una volta la tecnologia si è fermata 73

[@a_ham_like_me]

Thanks for the video. The demonstration was very helpful.

[@n4hnhradio]

I’m glad to hear that, Robert. That’s why I do this. I want everyone to enjoy their radio more. 73, Doug

[@Hogdriver88]

Interesting comparison and the 5000 seems to have the edge. Do you have any plans to get a 101D/MP to test against these 2?

[@n4hnhradio]

No. I’m not rich. I just use what radios I have available. It took 20 years for me to be able to afford a 5000. I had actually saved up for a TS-990S. I spent 8 months at Ham Radio Outlet putting each radio against the other in real-world on-air comparisons, using the same antenna. The 5000 beat all of them - the TS-990S and the FTdx101. That’s why I chose the 5000. I’m so glad I was able to get one before they discontinued them. But the 5000 isn’t for everyone. People who prefer to watch a bandscope should buy a FTdx10, FTdx101, or at least a IC-7300. My priority is being able to hear weak stations. The FTdx10 represents the best of both worlds, having a great receiver and a beautiful bandscope. The FTdx10 has virtually the same receiver as the FTdx101D, minus VC-Tune. The FTdx10 had the better DSP until the update for the FTdx101D and MP that came out last year. Prior to that, only the FTdx5000 had DSP on par with the FTdx10. Speaking of DSP, it is normal to hear a slight bit of hall-effect reverb when running Digital Noise Reduction. This is caused by the Automatic Gain Control. If it bothers you, go into the menu and set the slow response for AGC to 2200, instead of 3000. 73, de N4HNH

[@Hogdriver88]

@@n4hnhradio The scope on the 10 sure is fancy but I really get by quite well with the mini spectrum scope on the 7600 - I always have the multi bar graph meters displayed - the scope on the 5000 is similar. It's a shame they don't make it anymore because it sounds great, and I prefer a larger radio with more panel real estate. But the 10 is looking better and better to me as a replacement for my 7600 and would be a good companion to my 991A.

[@n4hnhradio]

FT-991A. The one radio to own if you can only own one radio. And one should be in every shack as a backup. My friend Joel has his sitting next to his FTdx101MP. He uses the 991A for VHF/UHF and as a backup for HF, since it can run on battery power. 73, de N4HNH

[@adrianfewster8391]

@@n4hnhradio The TS990 had a RX bug fixed in the TS890. The 890 is one to get of those 2.

[@n4hnhradio]

I tried the TS-890 the day it arrived at the local HRO. I thought the receive audio wasn't as good as the FTdx101D/MP or the FTdx5000. I can only describe it as not sounding very organic. But the TS-890 is a beautiful transceiver with a very good receiver. 73, Doug

[@kaydenchristensen5011]

You should do a “Doug’s List” and you test and give results in the top transceivers out there

[@n4hnhradio]

I would do that but I don’t have access to all those radios. It seems that people prefer the lab test.

[@leksandrlekh859]

No!!!!​@@n4hnhradio

[@Frank_K4FMH]

You know how Rob tests rigs, right? The companies do not send him a rig directly with very few exceptions. He picks up one at HRO Denver where he picks out the box! I sent him my unopened G90 to test, not MFJ or Radioddity. So that’s how it would happen..

[@n4hnhradio]

I don’t think Rob would retest a 5000. They have been discontinued. No company sends me radios either. I don’t intend to test every radio. I just show operating techniques. Because someone loaned me a FTdx10 to set up for them, I accidentally ended up shooting a series about it. But the techniques I show carry over to other radios. It’s just that some can perform the same techniques better than others. 73, de N4HNH

[@Frank_K4FMH]

@@n4hnhradio RR…was just pointing out for your viewers how Rob gets his rigs for testing. Many assume that manufacturers send them direct. Love your videos! I bought a Ftdx10 bc of them.

[@n4hnhradio]

Yes, Rob can’t be bought. Neither can I. Yaesu and I don’t have a great relationship.

[@Frank_K4FMH]

@@n4hnhradio Me neither. Dennis I could talk to.

[@n4hnhradio]

Rodger is nice but he supports FT-891. He doesn’t support FTdx5000MP or FTdx10.

[@ronhaynes1532]

Excellent Video Doug! 73

[@n4hnhradio]

Thank you Ron! 73

[@ronhaynes1532]

@@n4hnhradio Your Welcome.

[@paulhastings3109]

Nice going to joining LICW class to get the rust out of my head and And my fingers and wrist joints. Can I get the print out for setting for 991a for digital. I know I got it from you group and can't find it. Have the antenna working just need to put it up 10 to 15 feet. You have outstanding service and content KQ4CD Paul ⚓️

[@n4hnhradio]

Congratulations Paul! I feel sure that you’ll be pushing out the dits and dahs big time in the future. As for the FT8 settings for the FT-991A: Try DT Gain at 18 and adjust up or down. I assume you already set Menu 31 thru 33 to match the baud rate of your computer. Some people report that 33 needs to be set to disabled, even though many sources say that RTS is required. Menu 62 should be set to Data Mode. Menu 64 and 65 should be set to 15,000. Menu 66 and 68 should be set to OFF. Set Menu 70 to Rear and 71 to DAKY. Set Menu 72 to USB. Turn off Notch, Contour, DNR, and DNF. Shift at zero and Width at 2400. Again, start with DT Gain at 18 and adjust up or down as needed. I hope this helps. I don’t work FT8 myself. My brother does. 73, Doug

[@paulhastings3109]

@@n4hnhradio would it be rude to have it sent to me. When doing digital the settings don't mess up ssb

[@n4hnhradio]

Paul, I don’t have them printed out anywhere. If you send me an email, I could paste those steps into a return email. 73, Doug

[@paulhastings3109]

@@n4hnhradio thank you. Been falling the last few days and it hurts

[@n4hnhradio]

I’m sorry to hear that Paul. 73

[@johnnyrebellion8672]

I have the FTDX 10 and cannot get used to the sound of it's DSP so I rarely use it. The receiver is a dual superheterodyne and is middle of the pack IMHO. The FTDX 10 is a nice radio but I only use it for 6 meters and FT8. The DSP on the Icom 775DSP is absolutely amazing. I leave it on all the time. For SSB the FT 1000D, FT 990AT with the digital filter dialed in is music to the ears. 775DSP, and the rest not in any order FT890, FT840, Icom 751A but last place goes to the Icom 765 with the stock cheap filters. Beyond last place are the Icom 7300 and Yaesu FTDX 1200. Two radios with ZERO personality on SSB.

[@leksandrlekh859]

Yaesu ft-1000d or ftdx-10 ?