Shifter Honesty

That may or may not be my laundry in the background. This is, after all, a film about honesty. After a brief introspection, I realized that the ONLY thing I might be offering of value is that of being honest. Online culture, and not just online photography culture, is in great part about the facade. How do we craft the most palatable version of our work or our message, so that we can build the largest following possible. That's the driving force and methodology.
It is entirely possible to make a living shooting average to below-average photographs. I've seen this happen my entire career. I believe there are far more average photographers making a living than excellent photographers. With excellence comes risk. More time, more money, more exposure, more cutting-edge imagery which might require more contemplation, as opposed to the safe, the standard, the easy, the expected.
When it comes to my consumption of photography, something like the National Geographic Year in Pictures Special Issue has resonance, while the bulk of what I see online doesn't. It's quite that simple. The magazine is edited, curated, and designed to a high level, by people who know what they are doing. The photographic contributors are skilled and have many years if not decades of experience under their belt, otherwise they would not have been chosen for assignments in the first place. An issue like this is a goldmine of expandable exploration of what is being done at the highest level of the business while most of the work I see being featured online is about everything except the final product photography.
The list of contributors here will keep you busy for weeks if not months. Each of the images represented is but ONE image of a much larger, much more in-depth essay reflecting some of the most important issues of our time. This, my friends, is where I spend my time ingesting photography. A physical magazine is now a confrontational object, forcing you to put down your mobile device while consuming. Revolutionary.

[@d.cassarino]

And this is why I keep coming back for your videos, your brutal honesty 🙏 thanks Dan

[@ratgirl13]

I grew up reading National Geographics, getting it in the mailbox and reading it cover to cover-dedicating a bookshelf to just that magazine and sharing them with friends and trading them in the way that boys traded baseball cards-that’s part of my life history.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

My grandparents had every issue ever printed. I used to spend hours while my parents were hosting parties or doing other things I found terribly boring.

[@thomastuorto9929]

My parents made sure we got every issue mailed to our home.

[@JohnPatrickWeiss]

The Internet may have democratized the dissemination of creative work, but it also largely removed the editors and quality control. And it seems potato chip content (tasty and consumable but lacking nutrition) reins supreme, whilst deeper and higher quality content often fails to attract the algorithms. Thanks for going over all those top notch photographers for us to check out!

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

You are spot on. The best work online gets puny traffic. But, you have to give the squeaky wheels credit. It's a skill to learn how to build following and feel the algo. Sure, at some point, they all seem to implode but that's what happens when you mess with chemistry.

[@susanfisher4551]

You provide more than you realize. Please keep the videos coming. So much valuable advice!

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Thanks Susan. Appreciate that.

[@chuckjines67]

Stephanie Sinclair, Ami Vitale.... so many people doing serious and important work. Generally these folks are not on FakeBook photo groups. Editing, editing, and still more editing!!! It seems like 90% of the documentary process is editing. Like you said, editing is unheard of online!

[@liminaltart]

Honesty - best policy. The truth is brutal, powerful and necessary.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Yes, the truth is often a prickly affair.

[@joseuribe430]

Ya nailed it!

[@yzteh86]

I credit my love of photography to National Geographic and my Dad. Dad got me a subscription to the magazine when I was really young, not knowing the magazine was a bit heavy handed for a English second language kid. Not wanting to disappoint Dad, I made myself to at least go through all the photos in each magazine. My admiration for photography grew from there and never stopped.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

You are not alone. That magazine influenced millions and people and also fed the photography industry for decades. It still is, actually.

[@lifetimesofamultiplemediam1003]

Great upload. You are our Maté infusion… 🥤

[@ScottOSmith]

More videos please, love the no BS Honesty.

[@robertlayne8180]

Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

love it

[@BetaFax]

Haven’t finished watching, yet, but a thought: I owe KZbin photographers, creators, personalities, etc credit as an accessible gateway into the wider world of photography. They showed me techniques, theories, usage of gear, their wins, their losses, etc. I am still able to decide what I think is awesome and what I think is less than that - and there is awesome stuff on here. Additionally, there are channels like Daniel’s, Alex’s (The Photographic Eye), Tatiana Hopper’s, and Ted Forbes’ (The Art of Photography- especially his earlier stuff and mail time videos) that showcase practitioners outside of KZbin. People that frequent comment sections like these seem (to me) predisposed to hating KZbin photography for what it is. Seemingly personality-based, production-lined, sanitized for the public, content (regardless of the work that goes into actually making each video). Is it because ‘real’ work is devalued in the professional world? Is it because ‘real’ work isn’t promoted as much by the algorithm? I’m not sure, but I do wish for two things: more appreciation for KZbin photographers, and more popular exposure for the other side of the photography world.

[@hanumanguy]

Thanks for this post, very well expressed in my opinion. It mirrors my journey. Photographic Eye, Tatiana Hopper and the Art of Photography are among my most watched channels and I credit them with improving my photography. I pretty much watch everything Alex and Tatiana put out. And like you some of the gear channels have helped me choose the right gear and truly understand things like the pros and cons and physics of M43, ASPC, and Full Frame. Mati Sultanto uses all the systems and I found his unbiased commentaries to be very useful and I have a system that is perfect for me because of him. As I mentioned in my comment on this video, by default KZbin photographers or Instagram photographers have to share average work because no one produces outstanding work everyday or every week and the algo demands fresh content every week. When I see the work of someone like Alex Webb I am basically seeing the 100 - 200 best photographs they took in their life. I really feel my work improved dramatically in the last two years and KZbin gets most of the credit, I think channels like Alex (Photographic Eye) and Tatiana had the biggest impact but also channels like this channel and Ted Forbes that explain what long term projects are and about how to make books etc helped a lot. I found Brian Lloyd Duckett - The Street Photography Club and Mitchel kanashkevich to be accomplished professionals whose own work is outstanding and they are good teachers. I think Daniel's final advice here is noteworthy, study top photographers and their work, usually I find out about a photographer from Alex or Tatiana and then will watch longer documentaries or visit their website or even buy one of their books. Here are some of the top things I learned from KZbin including this channel that have really improved my work 1) print your work 2) make books 3) work on long term projects 4) study master photographers 5) minimize your gear and shoot with one lens 6) don't over share your work 7) exhibit your work even if it's the local cafe 8) shooting photos with people in them is 10 times more difficult but 10 times more interesting (Daniel Milnor).

[@TheJangodarkblade]

I got a new boss recently and was surprised by the notes I got from him because my (non-photographer) clients always *loved* the average/below average photos. They're just using them to pad their newsletters, so average is perfect for them. But as I explore photography outside that space, it's given me a lot more to think about. Keep being honest, I don't agree with all your thoughts on photography, but they do always make me think. And being thoughtful is more important than being agreeable, which I think is most KZbin photographers are just trying to be agreeable.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

That thing about wanting average work is...actually...a...thing. I had a client say to my face, "you make me nervous because I didn't know I could get imagery like that." I told her that I wasn't the guy for her.

[@scottsoutter7271]

I'm a fairly new watcher of your video^^^, er, films, and want to pay you a couple of compliments. First: your delivery is consistently funny along the way as you lay out your theses. I would struggle to do this in one 25 minute take, and I'm not a complete stranger to public speaking... so bravo. Second, I appreciate the honesty -- it's good to have a point of view which unapologetically swims a bit upstream. As someone who makes pictures as a hobby, I've been in the process of learning how to create an image about something vs of something. It turns out unsurprisingly that this is difficult, and I've been spending more time looking at art and reading about composition to remedy that gap. Time will tell how well I do there but the practice is probably the reward. Hearing you say story about a thousand times is helping to drive home that point.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

My humor will wear thing on everyone. Ask my wife. And yes, make great pictures is so darn difficult.

[@johnkenny9832]

One of the best videos I have watched for a long time, thank you Dan! So many more photographers whose work I have to look at now and learn from. For myself, these sorts of videos are invaluable in signposting where to look for the projects and photography that matters.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Lots of good people out there. If you know where to find them.

[@bronzepodcast]

You are right, about the quality and medium comparison between youtube and these Pro lvl magazines. The only point I would raise is that capitalism also influenced the death of a lot of Pro projects because money started dictating causes, more and more. Politically corrctness killed the rest. Pro magazines won't publish certain topics even if the work was hard and looks beautiful/impactful. Online people look for their cause, niche, without limitations of access. They trade quality for rawness. That has goods and bads, mostly bads in the long run, with relativism and the lack of certification of what is truth or honest. Everyone feels empowered to be the judge of what is truth or not and stick to it. What is beautiful or ugly, what is art or trash... A symptom of the rejection of this mono-culture we live in, but that is also creating its own problem.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

It's a mess. Not sure what the solution is.

[@terencemorrissey4413]

Great video, thanks for making it.

[@STEVEMUNCY]

This is why I watch you when I’ve moved on from other KZbinrs.

[@johnkosterimages]

Your honesty is as refreshing as your idiosyncrasies. Now I gotta get back to cheesepuffs and Nat Geo.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Some might calls those flaws. But thank you.

[@amitsh71]

Warning: Watching this video may cause spontaneous bursts of curiosity !!!

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

I hope so.

[@jenniferromonoyske3655]

Thanks Dan, for you honesty- you give us tremendous insight. I'm re- training myself to shoot on a new camera . A rangefinder, all manual and it's humbling. But, I have to do it for myself. time slow down. Too many photos and too easy. People are becoming art directors because they know someone. My cousins boyfriend, who is a commercial fashion photographer, had to teach the lead photographer how to tether. People are getting positions in photography that really don't have the skill to back it up. I don't want to be that person. I buy all these books.and spend a lot of time on the Magnum page.Went to Henri Cartier Bresson's Foundation in Paris recently. I'm not good at all! my first 10,000 and so on lol. Why are people so bothered? It's wisdom ... if they aren't doing what you are saying, then why is it hitting so hard? Lindsey is Phenomenal...and brave. Been following her work at NYT since Ukraine was invaded. So many stories of hard work, tenacity and bravery.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

If you haven't seen the Ukraine book edited by Sarah Leen, you should. It's unreal and the best book I've seen in a long while. Time. Time has been morphed to fit an audience who wants fame and notoriety as quickly as possible. That's all.

[@jenniferromonoyske3655]

Thank you. Will check that one out, for sure! and I absolutely agree -Copy of a copy :(@@DANIELMILNOR505

[@dianeschuller]

I have a subscription to National Geographic and agree with you about the photographers and the articles within.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Historically, one of the most important pubs out there.

[@photom3]

What’s important to me is the Candor or Honesty if you prefer. Anything that is done at a high level is not pretty behind the scenes. Some people have money and or are well connected but the quality of the work still has to be produced. I like the honesty it’s a good trait to have.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

I don't know how people have the time for anything else.

[@photom3]

@@DANIELMILNOR505the answer is “approval”., most are looking for it in one form or another. It may be buried very deep but it’s there. Most want to feel “ok”. I certainly do.

[@badgerag]

Thanks for the description in the written word, useful context. And much to reflect on, that's value. One man with one opinion etc. I bought fine liners, masking tape in twenty colours and white gel pens....

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Now are you cooking with gas.

[@PedroDeBandit]

If you stop making films like these Dan, I can tell you, we'll be getting a posse together and we'll come looking for you 😉

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

MIght want to start looking for volunteers.

[@riceboy890]

I can't even consider photography KZbinrs as photographers; they're less photographers and more KZbinrs with cameras trying to convince you that *whatever they're doing* is good photography when they're just using it as a vessel to top the KZbin algorithm. The dichotomy is clear when you get a bunch of trash KZbin "photography" and then a few days later you stumble across a photograph shot by someone like Paolo Pellegrin and it's so good that you catch yourself holding your breath staring at it.

[@thomastuorto9929]

There is a few that have had successful careers before here that are part time you tubers to keep earnings coming in. The good ones are sponsored basically making them salespeople.

[@hanumanguy]

I think this is a generalization, it may be true for many channels but there are some channel offered by professionals, often in the 50+ age group that are accomplished photographers sharing their wisdom including having lived through the film era, they may not be Magnum photographers or National Geographic contributors but they have a lot to offer and built their careers before KZbin even existed. Enjoy them because in 10 years or so they won't exist on KZbin.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Well, to their credit, what you describe is the entire point of KZbin. So, they are just doing what is required to feed that machine. I totally get it. I don't want to do that, but I get it. Paolo comes from an important Italian family that was based in creativity. If I remember correctly, his father is a well known architect. Paolo has been serious about his work for decades and has been doing assignments for decades as well.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Yes, if you want the cash you kinda need to take on sponsors or affiliates or both. Most of the time, that comes with compromise.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Hilmer is all in. Man would I love to go in the field with that guy. To your point, the existential crisis mode for YTr's is quite something. The VanLife people are far worse than the photog people, at least in my life. First, create drama where there is none. Second, show your fragility over the most common issues. Then sell van for "Off-grid" property because that is the trend of now that is making people money. In a year, if the money is there, they will all be heading back to the van.

[@ryan_loco]

👏👏👏

[@BradleyHansonPhotography]

Amen and good morning

[@myblackboxrocks]

Honnold. Great movie video film Dan.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

That's the guy. His Sendero Luminoso film is still my favorite. My hands sweat. 30 new birds for me Sam.......heading after winter, purple finches later today.

[@ralf.mueller]

I stopped subscribing the Nat Geo magazine in 2015 after Murdoch acquired NG. But heck did I love the images of Michael 'Nick' Nichols and other legendary staff photographers. Thanks for another great YT video and stay honest, like your content

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Oh man, Allard, Stanfield, Cobb, Nichols, so many legends.

[@451804]

yeah, sad to say, I physically get ill thinking even a few shekels of my fall on the Murdoch vermin. Love the NG photography and educational resources, but they will need to get out from under that blanket before I return to the subscriptions, sorry.

[@Joe_VanCleave]

I used to call camcorder tape-based videos "films" because, well, video tape is also a film of plastic. As for so-called "solid state" digital memory, those chips are made with layer upon layer of thin films. And magnetic hard drives use a film of magnetic media on a platter. So yeah, FILM!

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

You are way more intelligent than me. Maybe I should stick with "moving pictures."

[@thomastuorto9929]

Heck, I'd be happy with a good sunset or wildlife photo. Is my grammar spelt correctly? Great vid!

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Me too, at this point.

[@BenjaminBphotographer]

Not obnoxious, honest, food for thought and reason to examine direction. Really enjoyed this

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Opinions will vary. The looks I get from my wife.

[@jeffedvalds1013]

Danielsan...Haven't even watched the video yet. Had to comment on the opening tune (whistle). Who didn't love Frankie Valli and the four Seasons! You need to have wore-out a few camera shutters to get that one...Back to the film.

[@Elassyahmed]

The brachial plexus (bundle of nerves, arteries, etc...) flows from the side of the neck all the way down to the fingers, supplying everything in between. It flows between the first rib bones above it. A hiked up first rib could cause compression and could explain the pain and weakness down your arm. A hiked first rib could also be caused by chest breathing rather than belly breathing which is something that can be worked on.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

It was like a light switch, although the damage done by having it out for so long is still there. My pushups aren't straight at the moment as the right compensates for the left.

[@johnburrow4124]

I enjoyed this episode immensely. It touched on questions I have had about judging my own work in relation to others. A question for you (or your next q&a): the debate on jpeg vs raw… is it as useless as the debate on film vs digital? Photoshop vs capture one? I ask as these questions seem to me to be more on how to photograph rather than why. Are questions like these just noise that drown out meaningful conversations on why we photograph? I have answered on my own with yes, but I am curious as to your detailed thoughts. I recently suggested to folks on an Internet forum that none of that mattered as much as other aspects like composition, light, and story. And, they weren’t pleased.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Simple. RAW all the way. An untouchable digital negative with two stops correction in either direction. Exportable to numerous other file types. JPG is good for quick hits but not an archive.

[@SzilviaVirag]

I recently re-joined Facebook and was treated like an idiot by people I knew damn well were still beginners only 4 years ago, for saying I'm just using jpegs now. Meanwhile someone I know who was an Australian Geographic nature finalist and made it into their book a few years now only shoots jpegs. And only shoots micro four thirds cameras.

[@evertking1]

I cant remember who said it but "shoot what you love" and Adam Gibbs "shoot the light"

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

What you love and I would add "What you know." Same for writing. Start with what you know.

[@caffeinatedcameras]

I’m at a point where I KNOW I need to study, but I’m not sure where to start. There’s so much out there it can be overwhelming. Would you recommend starting with certain photographers, or something like National Geographic? Any recommendations would be appreciated.

[@BetaFax]

Two recs. Number One: Start w/ a physical Nat Geo magazine and look at who’s featured in there. Or, try to see what info on the back catalog there is online. Number Two: search up a store that sells photo books in a city near you (or, any large city) and look at what their inventory is. That should expose you to different-enough work to get started.

[@caffeinatedcameras]

@@BetaFax Love it thank you. I knew I'd be doing a deeper dive into Nat Geo after this video

[@hanumanguy]

I know this is a kind of anti-KZbin thread but there are a few KZbin channels that explore the world's greatest photographers. They can give you a great introduction to master photographers and then you can explore further with the ones that interest you. Recommended: Tatiana Hopper and The Photographic Eye (Alex Kilby). Tatiana tends to make short documentaries on an individual photographer where as Alex Kilby might show the works from several master photographers in one show. Nothing beats looking at print photos so subscribing to something like Nat Geo or purchasing books of the works of master photographers will enrich your learning a lot. I also like to view photos of the week on major news websites like CNN and the Guardian, it's a great way to see the best photo journalism (warning some photography from conflict is depressing).

[@hanumanguy]

Another tip is if you see good documentary or photo journalism on major media website, look up the photographer and go their website, they usually have a section of their documentary projects. I've found some great contemporary work this way.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Sure, take the names I gave in this film and start there. You can do the same with commercial photographers, advertising folks, etc. Not just PJ people.

[@DonGiannatti]

They don't. That is not an accident. That is by design. Truth is unconmfortable and makes people think twice, even a third time, about their own ability to commit to something. It is far easier to teach pablum than it is to teach excellence. If you want a lot of sycophants, online is great. They don't have to apply themselves, only do a modicum of work and feel that they have done it by living vicariously through the onliine personality. Truth is painful. Making coffee and acting cool is the best way to build a massive audience. Although burnout is the usual destination.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Interesting. That coffee thing is peculiar, and I do love me some coffee. Truth is painful. Ain't that the truth.

[@DonGiannatti]

@@DANIELMILNOR505 Your coffee consumption is not a problem - nor the one referenced... heh. Your channel is sriously one of a handful that are wonderfully truthful and an absolute asset to the photo community. Keep on, brother.

[@thewrightrecord]

Honesty, yes, but with qualifiers. Here is my take: Seemingly unfiltered, informed, thought out honesty with a healthy dose of humor and an attempt to address contra arguments where your opinions hinge more on values than facts - that is what you deliver. Something that seems more like real life than KZbin staging - that is also what you deliver. Quirky styles, varied topics and formats, movie references, slight unpredictability -that is what you deliver. And I for one find it totally refreshing. But I am just one person with one opinion.

[@evertking1]

Seems like I met you at a dead show in the 90s

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

That's possible. Phoenix.

[@evertking1]

7:26 Ooouch

[@robmcd]

Alex Honold

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

That's him!

[@denislaroche3957]

what is good puking ? I want your stance on this one......cheers from Montreal

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

puking that doesn't land on you

[@q3dm17]

Made me unsubscribe from a few channels ) 100% agree, but maybe there’s a bit of windmills battling here. youtube is like mcdonalds. But hope you convert some people in this fast food to fine dining. Appreciate what you do!

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

MIND BOGGLING. 2 in 3 people consume fast food at least once a week (65%) Males are nearly three times more likely to eat fast food daily than females. On average, people spend $148 on fast food each month. 40% of American consumers use drive-thrus to purchase fast food

[@niktoten]

NG was always a little bit too colorful for my taste, felt like advertisement. If I see another colorful old egyptian life size model i might puke, haha. Anyway, 2021 - only what - four ? - black and white images! Sad sad boy. But some pictures I really like - India one, Colorado one (that one in b&w!), Peru one, Texas one (!), Minnesota (!) and Yemen (! is that from year 3 AD?). Anyway, interesting to me, how photography can be about result, but in the same time, some of those "best" pictures only works for me with the story and in context of how hard is to make them. Curious. Edit: also, the firefighter peeing in the center of hell is just ... Edit 2: If nothing, thanks for names to look for - Guttenfelder - oh man!

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

I figured that naming some of these folks would be helpful. Also, check out Guttenfelder's work from Africa. It's solid.

[@nikolajovanovic1140]

Lynsey Addario Juan Arredondo Alessandro Cinque Dar Yasin David Guttenfelder Kiana Hayeri Henry Leutwyler Renan Öztürk Victoria Moises Saman Brian Skerry Nichole Sobecki Brent Stirton Ami Vitale Stephen Wilkes

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Thank you, there you go. That should keep people busy for a long while.

[@nikolajovanovic1140]

@@DANIELMILNOR505 Thank you, sir.

[@leonarddavis8449]

I quite like your obnoxious level.