Shifter: Question and Answer 47

[@josejavierceperoriveron3192]

S...man! I was introduced to your work here by Algorithms and I have learned sooooo f.... much! I'm 51 years old enthusiastic cuban photographer lost up here in Denmark. I'm watching all your videos 🤘👹📷

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Cuba and Denmark, what a great combo. And you have one of the best art names ever. My name sucks in comparison.

[@seeingmonochrome]

As someone who worked 25 years as a newspaper staff photographer, I think you nailed it Daniel! I agree 100 percent on how you explain being a Photojournalist, well done.

[@jessekoskinen]

Glad to see you fall into the rabbithole of birding. Welcome, there is no going back.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Oh ya, live is over. I'm all in.

[@alyhazzaa]

I had to stop the video after your first question "8 min" and write something because I was LUCKY to start my professional career as a photojournalist with a photo editor that is very classic and harsh and tough and we are still friends till today, I am trying to unlearn the rules (the image is soft, the horizontal line is inclined) I was taught about how an image should look like while I was in the news paper (4 years) but the one thing I will never change about my style of photography even in my street photos that I will never change anything in the scene, I am only observing and recording. "happy tears"

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

I don't change either. I think it would take the fun out of photography. I see so much work that has been so "influenced" shall we say. It just looks soulless.

[@liminaltart]

Bravo on your comments about journalism. Living in Australia and Murdoch saturation media I understand your take on what passes at ‘journalism’ today.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

It's just dumb, dumb, dumb, but people seem to like it.

[@trevorbrooks813]

Great questions, brilliant entertainment,,, when I'm in the mood and you're firing like this it's just delightful. Thanks for posting, enjoy your travels. PS: The 'Raw' first edition is beautiful. See ya!

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Ha, thank you!

[@Being_Joe]

Got to work with a Lightjet, those things are sooooo cool. Pain to work on when it needs troubleshooting but man are those prints beautiful.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

They are. Sizable and capable.

[@ZenoWatson]

I hold my hat off to you Dan, with that Sporty intro and your Wife's amazing CPR skills. Thanks for taking time out and deliver the Truth bombs!

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

commence bombing run...

[@RichardSilvius]

In this video you talk about the training needed for photojournalists in journalistic ethics, etc. What about a person who is not a PJ but may want to apply those standards to their work, or to a particular project? Where does an industry outsider go to learn all about those PJ skills/ethics? Are there books about it you'd recommend? Are there workshops you know of that teach it? How, Milnor, HOW???? Thanks for another great, informative video BTW.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Good question. I would look to something the VII Agency's education program. Photojournalism programs in schools still teach it but that's not possible for a lot of folks.

[@RichardSilvius]

@@DANIELMILNOR505 Thank you! I knew they had mentorships but didn't know about their courses. The Level 1 course looks like exactly what I need. There doesn't seem to be anything to sign up for at this moment, but I sent an email to ask about it.

[@fffeuchtner]

Great Q&A as always. When you talk about immediacy it reminds me of all the photographers who "just" started photography and are already doing workshops because they found some fame on Instagram or whatever. I sometimes think there is no "mastering a subject (over years)" anymore. Everybody is an expert and everybody "can" teach. I like the Japanese craftsmen-approach where someone is considered a master only after decades of training and gaining the necessary experience.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

People love average. Average sells and average builds audience. The people pushing boundaries don't sell, in most cases, until far down the line when their talent finally gets recognized. Formula is what sells now, which is my the algorithms keep changing so that people produce the formula. Taking the time to get good? Who wants to do that now? Answer, not many.

[@evertking1]

Oh yeah 👍 Dan, you have fumbled into the best, most real and refreshing KZbin there is.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Hey, fumbling got me through middle school football.

[@davidb9682]

Great as always. Love the gall to give us the: photographer & environmentalist' throw-away' line - which could be a video of its own of course. What a hoot! But the most insightful, were your comments that not everything is for public consumption, and: "it's critical that you do things for yourself......I don't care what your facade is, I want to know who you actually are". Awesome.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

I know so many people are are one person in person and another person online. It's total BS. We live in the Age of Facade, because you can make a buck and that seems to be enough for A LOT of people.

[@jonberlin6131]

On a cactus in the sea of Cortez Fabulous rant!! Loved every bit of it!

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

I miss that place. The world's acquarium.

[@Fortnite87463]

Great video, got a fuji xe4 and you can minimize the experience very easily. Best digital camera I have ever used and I have tried a few. Fountain pens are life changing. As soon as I got one I couldn't stop writing. Everyone needs a fountain pen.

[@FlosBlog]

No no no - you need a soft 5B pencil and an x100v ;D But, yeah, writing is more about the pen then taking pictures is about the camera

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

I'd much rather have the xe4 than the X100 series. Good move. I have fountain pens too but they explode where I live. (high elevation). so the Jetstream is the new go to.

[@Fortnite87463]

@@DANIELMILNOR505 Oh wow that is very interesting

[@theblackandwhitefilmproject]

Really enjoy your channel. One of my favourites (Yes CORRECT spelling!) Cheers.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Thank you!

[@patmccann1098]

Boy, you are on one today; some hum-dingers in there. Good work, Milnor.

[@keithhudson1248]

On top form again.

[@ChrisWhittenMusic]

Great video (again)!

[@ijovy3]

I LOVE the uniball jetstream sport. i first discovered it when i used to work for staples over 10 years ago. I just burned through my second one. Best. Pen. Ever.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

I found a weakness. The clip breaks off....easily.

[@DmitryKoupriyanov]

Looking forward to the slow mo wheelies and skids 🤣

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Oh, it's coming. once the snow melts.

[@richardnugent7035]

Hey DM, Another very worthwhile book by Alex and Rebecca N Webb is “on Street Photography and the Poetic Image” by aperture books workshop series. Essays and images: one of my favorites resources. In addition to their own images, they use some from a few other photographers to make their teaching point. Highly recommended. Inexpensive.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Sounds right up my alley. Thank you.

[@StuartIsett]

I'll take issue with the training part of photojournalism. That's a very American thing. Among the freelancing crowd I was in (which I'm back in when I wear my scarf) no one was trained in any way, shape or form. Especially - ahem - the Europeans. We used common sense but 20 years of shooting with some big name clients, I never once had ethics explained to me; I simply knew what is right, and what is wrong. Plenty of photojournalists out there don't. Trust me, I've seen it.

[@ChrisWhittenMusic]

Maybe not trained, but until the 90's all the newspapers in the UK had picture editors (and editors). I don't know if they still do. A lot of lauded photographers came out of that system. The Independent newspaper was known for high class photojournalism. It all changed when budgets got slashed, newspapers went online and delivery schedules went from days (long form), hours (daily news) to minutes.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Ya, who knows what the Euro trash are doing. Sleeping late, taking the summer off. Avoiding PJ training. Sounds heavenly. The training came in with American newspapers. I never had an ethics conversation doing magazine work with any client anywhere in the world, but in the newspaper world it was front and center. Having said that, I saw newspaper photographers do all kinds of unethical things, wire guys too, but they were risking for reward. And ego.

[@StuartIsett]

I toned all my b/w with selenium for years. Probably why I have so little hair left.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

gloves? what gloves?

[@pepeye]

Besides Bosque del Apache, where in New Mexico do you go for bird photography? I have a memory of a beautiful day in El Malpais surrounded by flocks of mountain bluebirds roaming from tree to tree. That was magical (El Malpais/El Morro/Lava Falls/La Ventana are my favorite all-time spots in NM and the La Ventana restaurant in Grants had some of the best red chile ever). But I can't think of any other spot I would go specifically for birds (the flamingos at the Albuquerque zoo do not count).

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Hmm, there are many other spots. Bernalillo is great, all along the Rio in ABQ, the southeastern part of the state, the far southwestern corner near Arizona, the backside of the Sandias for hawk migration and the far north for rarities like the white tailed hawk.

[@megankirk2124]

Did you mainline Yerba before you shot this? Amped. Question: I do regular picture packages and photo essays complete with stories that require a lot of research and interviews. The best ones are shown in exhibits, shows or packaged with their stories and are for sale in galleries. Can I call myself a photojournalist? I feel like one because of all the research, writing and storytelling, but I’m not trained other than a few photojournalism classes I took in college before pivoting to anthropology. I’m just a small town artist, unpublished and not for hire-I do what the hell I want. My most recent cards say photojournalist instead of photographer because my friends says it better describes what I do, which is more then just photos. Am I reaching into places I shouldn’t with this title? My teen daughter says I should call myself a visual artist. Watched your video and now I don’t know who I am.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Hey Megan, maybe that's a good thing. Improvise, adapt and overcome, to coin a Marine Corp saying. I think calling yourself a photojournalist should pay heed to the last part of that word, "journalist." That word come with some parameters but I don't see why you can't use it. If you are trying to show the world what you are seeing, trying to tell some truths.

[@megankirk2124]

@@DANIELMILNOR505 ten-four

[@terencemorrissey4413]

I had my wife’s photo taken with Larry Towell a few years ago after a Magnum Photos lecture in Toronto. I told my wife to lift her chin up slightly, Larry said, don’t direct.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Hilarious. I met him in LA years ago. Just a brief hello after another talk. Seems like a nice dude. A farmer.

[@ChristineWilsonPhotography]

Thank God your wife can do CPR , you need to take her with you everywhere you go from now on. 😀 seriously good video looking g forward to that cinematic bliss 😊

[@StuartIsett]

My assistant's main job is remembering my coffee order: cortado. Second job, standing behind me and whispering in my ear when I'm messing up.

[@juanQuedo]

A cortado. I hope the fancy coffee scene has accepted it as standard now, if not you are just evil 😂

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

saving the photographer from himself/herself is a major part of the position. And keeping constant beer supply post shoot.

[@StuartIsett]

@@DANIELMILNOR505 I tell mine to whisper sweet nothings in my ear like, "Hey, you're screwing up". Any assistant worth their weight in gold does that, and any good photographer thanks them, even if they may be wrong.

[@GeertKuster]

Thanks Dan for the book recommendations. Some of them are absurdly priced, unfortunately, but I just ordered Memory City and Slant Rhymes. Although I didn’t hear you talk about it, I think it can be an interesting poetrical (is that a word) combination of the work of Alex and Rebecca. Since you’re so wildly throwing away al those free tips, I’m throwing one back at you. When using the jetstream pen, I came to the conclusion that I already have a Uni-brand pen which is one of my favorites to write and loose sketch a bit. You should really try one, if the jetstream is your favorite I’m sure this one will be right up there as well: Uni Pin fineliner 0.3mm

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

that sounds really nice, damn you. that is super fine!

[@GeertKuster]

@@DANIELMILNOR505 that’s a fine line you’re drawing there between a pun and a pen. And yes I’m quite revolted by this terrible dad-joke as you most probably are as well.

[@GeertKuster]

@@DANIELMILNOR505 hey Dan. Just received Memory City in the mail and am really enjoying the size, quality and print quality of this book. Exceeds my expectations. Slant Rhymes still on its way unfortunately.

[@jdwphoto]

"Greed heads" love it. Classic H.S.T.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

LOVE that expression.

[@sara505sings]

Amen

[@FlosBlog]

I bought Glasgow by Raymond Depardon and it is just such a revelation - at first you are hit in the mouth by the bleakness of the place and only on run four or five you see the moments of intimacy, friendship and care that he captured and how the people defy the grayness of the walls. Never knew photography could do this. But I was really blown away by Susan Meiselas' Nicaragua I just cannot put that thing down - its just beyond words. I never had much interest in Mezoamerica ... until now.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

LOVE that guy. Voyages is one of my fav books.

[@shootswithcoops]

“Creative writing in your own brain” hahaha classic line

[@TylerMcCool]

but how many colors do uniball jetstreams come in? and hey nice hat

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

I have at least five colors. However, they are the 1.0 versions and I prefer the 0.7.

[@rickharsh7005]

I like your shit, it is always good.

[@ChrisWhittenMusic]

How are people submitting questions for Q&A?

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

anywhere they can....you can use the contact form on Shifter if you like.

[@DimitriGalle_N25]

I think the rules of the game changed looking at how framed the news is getting served, but Dan mentioned it, most outlets are just a trumpet for a political party .. also in europe.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Ya, we've fallen quite far. We are so undereducated here, and seemingly disinterested in the world around us. So easy prey for those with an agenda.

[@ruudmaas2480]

😂🤣😂🤣 the way you tell the good stuff.

[@chiprock2692]

Jetstream's got me through my Sommelier final exam with hours of handwritten essays 5 years ago; but there is a usurper -....The Stabilo bl@ck+ medium - made in Germany. Waaaay to sexy for us bastardo's. Keep keepin' it real!

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

I found a weekness in the Uni Ball. The clip. It breaks off SO easily.

[@paulmcivor9994]

In terms of intent, Keith Carter said "just take the picture; you've got a lifetime to figure out what it means."

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

He's a wise dude.

[@willbaren]

Probably a silly question I know but do any photojournalists use film. I would not expect any in news but maybe somebody taking their time or in regions without ready access to the internet?

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Very, very few. Not many clients willing to wait for film these days. Really tipped for good during the Iraq War.

[@willbaren]

@@DANIELMILNOR505 thanks. I guess with digital there must be tighter controls on the image pipeline to prevent image manipulation. Perhaps you could let us know how that's changed from the days of film? Cheers.

[@photom3]

Heard a politician say perception was more important than reality. Lot of that going around. Dogs Can’t Read, ironic and true. You DO need sharpness for birds. On a roll today.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Our politicians will say just about another now. Why not, no penalty for doing so.

[@retropixer]

How do we ‘register’ our photos?

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

With the copyright office in DC. At least here in the US. Their site will walk you through it.

[@retropixer]

@@DANIELMILNOR505 much appreciated.

[@_smsb_]

another good one. and man do i feel targeted. just calling out my preferred photo genres/projects - portrait projects and urban abstracts. oh well. gonna keep shooting. that's the point, right? looking forward to more shit talking.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

If that's what you do, keep doing it. I think the purpose behind what you do is key.

[@robertmullinslives]

Agreed. We are so politically radicalized, and every issue has become politically weaponized.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

It's just dumb. So, so dumb.

[@RichardSilvius]

10/10 would sneak into your house to look at your snapshots.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

I have to admit, we've got a pretty good collection. Books and prints. But, no more space.

[@FlosBlog]

I have considered what you said about journalism and I am sorry, Dan, I cannot share your enthusiasm for the profession. I don't know of many parts of the wider political process that is as exclusionary as the media. Here in Germany, you need two academic degrees to start a "Volontariat" which is 2 years more of training at minimum wage - who but people of wealthy background could even dream of doing that? I do not doubt that they are thoroughly trained, but in the process the pool of experiences is drained to only the ones swimming on top. The view points of most backgrounds are excluded from the discourse and are everybody's loss. Before, only the common view of the world was represented and we ought not to conflate this with objectivity. I think thats a reason for so much talk about the crooked media, which really is just that many people dont have the reality of their live presented back to them and therefore wrongfully assume that there is some sort of willful misrepresentation. In that light I see the weakening of the big media corporation's monopoly as a good thing. Its more democratic. Of course that means different viewpoints are shown and people can choose media that does not question what they already think to know. But that is more a function of people not educating themselves as thoroughly as they should, isnt it? And that was the case well before the internet.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

I think you are confusing modern media with journalism. It's not. It is political theatre for profit. Journalism, good journalism, is out there but mostly found in print. There is quite a lot of it being done but you have to search it out. You can't tell me that reading something like the Atlantic, or the non-fiction New Yorker isn't good journalism. It might be long form and slow to process, which is frankly what turns off my irate friends who can no longer read any piece longer than 500 words. But it's there. The fact checking alone is beyond most people's comprehension. The newspaper world is also filled with good journalism, but again, you have to seek it out. It often gets little because it may or may not sell advertising.

[@TheWooloomoolloo]

Watched this with interest yesterday, especially the part about photojournalism. Today came the video where the climate activist Greta Thunberg missed her school and posed during her detention by the police in Germany and a photojournalist took what appears to be staged pictures. It took just one day.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

Hmm, don't know this story but I try to avoid most things until they come out in book form. Photographing an event that is staged for the media is one thing. Staging the event yourself, as the photographer, then photographing it like it was real, well, that is something else entirely. If an event is staged by one group or another and you are assigned to cover it, you have to make pictures but it is clear that the event was done for the sake of the media.

[@abelardojeda]

LOL, officially KZbinr Leica/film kids are offended with the “not everything” speech. 🙃

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

A strange bunch but they sure are numerous.

[@WhoIsSerafin]

So you are saying a trained photo journalist doesn’t photograph to their political beliefs? If so I’m going to say nonsense and it’s just not possible to have something in a photo that’s part of what you believe to be true.

[@ChrisWhittenMusic]

I know left leaning photojournalists who have made amazing stories on conservative politicians. There’s no bias involved, they document the government in power, whether it’s left or right.

[@DANIELMILNOR505]

I don't think you understand what it means to be on assignment. There isn't time to "photograph to your beliefs." It is full tilt from the second the editor says "go." You are ON, all the time. Your work is, in great part, driven by the fear of producing or not producing.

[@WhoIsSerafin]

@Chris Whitten I've watched many amazing documentaries on what you described from both sides, but there is ALWAYS the person's personal beliefs in it, we are human and it's going to happen and it does happen.

[@WhoIsSerafin]

@DANIEL MILNOR I could except that when you are new and fresh, but not as a seasoned photographer and you could see it in the gentlemen you interviewed very easily. And that's okay, I wouldn't expect any less from us as humans.

[@ChrisWhittenMusic]

@@WhoIsSerafin But people are professional above all else. I had a best friend who was a leading photojournalist. He was passionate about great stories and prided himself on taking great photographs of those stories. If one of his favourite politicians was doing something wrong, my friend would definitely highlight that wrong with his photojournalism. If you vote democrat, you don't stop making critical work for five years until the republicans get back in.