Shin Megami Tensei V: A Reflection of Chaos - PaRSMTG

[@lunaromancia]

I agree with most everything you've said here. One thing I want to mention about this game's combat is how much less uh, "kinetic energy" it has. It's kinda abstract but what I mean is that, with my past experiences with Press Turn, it's always felt like you can just turn everything around, or get everything turned around on you in one instant. Part of the reason is that the previous press turn games didn't have defense stats, while Vitality acts like defense here. In Nocturne, IV and IVA, getting 10 levels would get you like 30-40 HP and that's all in terms of any sort of defense increase. Here, Vitality goes up and the level scaling kicks in, there's no way some bad luck will lead to getting your ass kicked by a lower level demon. This works in the other way too where tons of bosses just feel spongy if your level's too low, even if you can absolutely beat them. Battles in Press Turn that take a million years and don't really have much of a chance of ending in defeat are nothing if not boring. And if you use demons like Idun, it's very likely that most fights will play out like this. The only time it didn't for me was when I got to Zeus, Vasuki and Odin where they were all like 12 levels above me and basically the only way I could make it manageable was by grinding up a bunch. I was so tired by that point that I just activated the grinding DLC, got up to 80 and rushed through the rest of the game. Since you can always teleport back to a leyline fount, I basically never had to ration my items and MP either, which I had to do in Nocturne and the 13 hours of Apocalypse I played before losing my save data. On that note, IV's Smirk system feels heavily flawed to me, but it's in line with that idea of kinetic energy, it's absolutely a Win More mechanic, as the whole Press Turn system is. Weaknesses not only deal more damage, but they also get you more actions, up to double! Blocks, drains and repels not only get rid of damage, they also negate actions, sometimes down to zero! V seemed to me like it was moving away from this idea with the defense stat and limited time buffs and stuff, but the issue is that it's using a Win More system like Press Turn at the base, so it sorta just doesn't gel together. Felt fatiguing to me. All that being said, I enjoy fusing demons and making builds, I liked a lot of the story concepts, I liked exploring often enough, I liked the atmosphere. I think V is a decent game and I'm willing to defend it a lot for how much negative I have to say about it, but I really think that Press Turn has run its course. The next Megaten game doesn't feel like it should focus on turns to me, or at the very least, I feel that Press Turn can't really be good without being Apocalypse again and I think that's reason that's reason to consider something else.

[@Kraftium]

That is a good point you don't have a defense stat in those games do you, that is something that with the level scaling make me miss the glass canony nature of the other games which is where that kinetic energy thing you mentioned stems from me thinks I never felt like bosses were particularly spoongey tho I took down shiva with what was essentialy 2 turns of attacks at like level 90ish (5 critical murakumos, 1 of which was charged)x2 I liked smirk from what I played of 4, it was a little janky at times but overall I think its a fun upseter to combat even if its random elements can cause problems I don't personally think press turn is all dried up its value (definately not its brothers like, follow up attacks/sessions once more and etc) but at the same time I don't think I'd complain if atlus wanted to change things up a little either way i'm glad you enjoyed the video

[@darkhorse744]

Isn't Vitality the Defense Stat in Nocturne, don't know if it's in the DDS Duology, but the reason combat is so fast in the IV Duology is because of the absence of a defence stat.

[@lunaromancia]

@@darkhorse744 Vitality was in Nocturne, IV and Apocalypse too but it only increased Max HP. It switched to defense and only defense in V.

[@darkhorse744]

@@lunaromancia Vitality was NOT in the IV Duology, I'm looking at a Screenshot of the Level up screens and it isn't there. Also yeah, I remember Demi-Fiend being Squishy in III and I just checked Game8, it does only increase HP. I think it's a good change for the player character, makes them less squishy.

[@lunaromancia]

@@darkhorse744 Huh, wow, I remember it being there but I guess I played Nocturne more recently than the 3DS games. Either way, it's nice that it helps keep the Nahobino alive but it's one of the things that I also think makes the game more boring unfortunately.

[@EisenSMT]

I have a feeling that a few years down the line, V is going to take Apocalypse's place as the black sheep of the franchise and Soul Hackers 2 will be remembered as the great MegaTen game that came out at the start of the '20s

[@Kraftium]

here's hoping I get apcolypse was weird but its basically glorifed DLC I don't know what everyone came down on it so hard granted I have yet to play it myself but Ive seen enough to know my stuff

[@jackknight5059]

@@Kraftium Personally, I'm down on Apocalypse because there's a 40 second audio clip of a child audibly orgasming

[@hendix2200]

Aged like milk in a desert

[@aperson7511]

My fave combat mechanics least favorite story but smt 3 and 5 have horrid storys​@@Kraftium

[@crabbuckets7506]

Great video man. Finished this maybe half way through last year, had a blast figuring out the systems as I've never played SMT before. Had played mirage sessions and some persona games but really enjoyed this.

[@kingnewgameplus6483]

I'm sad you didn't talk about one of the most unintentionally funny cutscenes in all of gaming where Dazai talks to himself on top of a building before throwing away his "sucker" cap and going sicko mode.

[@Kraftium]

nothing to be said it speaks for itself only thing I want to mention is Yakumo and Nuwa are literally just at ground level looking up like "the fuck is this clown?"

[@kainsenpai7172]

This was a good video. I definitely enjoy this format compared to your other style, and that's mostly because I'm also doing other things while listening. Longer videos are good in my book.

[@Kraftium]

thanks kain honestly I think I need to do a big think on how I actually want to put out videos instead of randomly trying out new ideas so I might end up doing something slightly new again next time idk but heres hoping whatever I make y'all still enjoy it

[@NGB1122]

Nocturne also used a Level Based Damage formula, but it wasn't as pronounced as SMT5 from what I can tell.

[@Kraftium]

I knew some phys attacks scale with how much HP you have in nocturne which obviously increases with each level but I wasn't aware they're was level scaling too either way SMT5s is WAY to much

[@NGB1122]

@@Kraftium Yeah it's interesting. Also to be fair, I am grossly oversimplifying. Robin & Zephyr have a video series called "Deconstructing SMT Nocturne’s Formulas" if you are interested in learning more. Episode 2 & 3 are of particular interest.

[@Kraftium]

@@NGB1122 i'll give them a look thanks

[@sunnyenno9468]

typical Kraftium W really clever video, the details on the optimization of game and the parallels with nocturne were really interesting, i haven't had a lot of time with SMT games, Ive played personas 3 to 5, smt3,4 and strange journey so there is alto i have yet to experience but strange journey is by far my fav, really looking forward you get to that one and also DDS duology. Edit: i really like the format and i think you do these review videos great, the intros may often come off as a bit aimless but you do a great job building on your points, keep it up kraft.

[@Kraftium]

thanks for the kind words, I'm looking foward to DDS and strange journey too they seem very neat (I love me a job system) and yeah I definately feel like I can ramble a bit but I guess thats a symptom of ADHD story telling I like to give people as much context as I can. I should probably force myself to go back and rework the script more

[@sunnyenno9468]

@@Kraftium i still like your style and the context you provide is valuable imo. on an unrelated note wanted to ask you about a good entry point onto ff tactics and the best version of each entry and also wheater i should play bravely default 1 and second before playing BD2, since you seem to be an expert on the matter.

[@Kraftium]

@@sunnyenno9468 oh I'm no means an expert, only played a bit of the OG tactics since i'm kinda wanting to do it for a video series/waiting for that rumored remaster but I adore the tactics advance games they're like the perfect grinding games. advance 1 has the better story and probably balenced gameplay but A2 just has MORE in it so idk still not played BD2 but the feeling I got from it is most see it as unremarkable, BD1 was great despite its big major problem in getting to the finale, BD2's felt kinda unimportant and campy but gameplay is improved and I love its happy go lucky nature

[@Phantom_Gabriel]

yeah a lot of thing you said during the video i agree with while playing SMT 5 i def enjoyed it's a well made game but it's not a game i'm really wanting to get back into to play more like i still need to go and do the true ending and well it wouldn't be hard like at all (i'm way too OP now) i just don't have the energy to return to Da'at and it really sucked that the story wasn't good espeaclly playing SMT 4 and how it evolved the story telling for mainline SMT games seeing just degrade just sucks so yeah i hope for the next mainline game they do evolve it (hell looking at Soul Hackers 2 and it having a speaking MC i think they just will do that)

[@Kraftium]

soul hackers 2 will save atlus baybeeeeee

[@alfthetruelord]

While I like how this game looks I still prefer nocturnes presentation in terms of both artstyle and direction for cutscenes and just general cinemetography, not to say im an expert but I absolutely adore Nocturnes cutscenes and I don’t know if this lived up excluding a select few

[@_hyva_]

20:22 The game does innovate, just not on the combat per say. While Nocturne's combat was more centered around reinventing the series's combat, this game reinvented the other main mechanic of SMT, that being the Dungeon Crawling. They managed to immaculately evolve the Dungeon Crawling aspects of previous SMT games into an open environment chock full of secrets to explore. Like you said, it isn't perfect, but neither was the Press Turn system when Nocturne released. I expect future SMT (and possibly even Persona) to use the SMTV formula for level design, and I'm extremely excited to see what might come of it.

[@Kraftium]

this is true, granted I do think that SMTs dungeon crawling is for the most part incredibly basic so the bar was set pretty low to innovate on it another commenter said something that made me thing unlocking more traveral abilities as you went (like an air dash or a double jump etc) would of allowed for a progession to the level design and would falcilite more interesting world design as the game went on

[@kuraux56s59]

I never realized how Nocturne really affected how people see SMT. And I really hate how everyone praises Nocturne to high heaven. If I remember correctly, while I theorize that the Nocturne bandwagon may have had an effect on V's questionable character/story decisions... V as a whole apparently had a very troubled development. For example, Hayatoro. The doggo demon that appears on the cover. Was actually going to be more relevant to the story, but all of that was scrapped. (Also, while yes. Most Law characters are massive assholes. I still want to mention Amane from Devil Survivor. Who lacks the nasty "Obey the lord or perish!"-mentality. On top of the Law ending in DeSu being an actual viable choice.)

[@Kraftium]

I do think nocturne is directly responsible for alot of the cool shit that has come out of modern SMT, the press turn system has been the basis of pretty much every SMT game since in some shape or form (once more (persona) , Follow up attacks/sessions (strange Journey and TMS), motivation (raidou) and whatever the stack system in soul hackers 2 seems to be. The game did a lot for the series but while its the basis for so much, thats what it is, a foundation I still hold nocturne in high regard but I don't need MORE nocturne, the perfect ammount of its DNA is probably in whatever game atlus is making. that certainly interesting about SMT5's development but it makes sence also yeah i've heard the DeSu Law route is pretty good, we'll have to wait and see

[@kuraux56s59]

@@Kraftium You put it far better than I did in that we DONT need more Nocturne. There is already enough inspiration from the game as it is.

[@Xeper616]

Why do you hate people liking something you don't

[@kuraux56s59]

@@Xeper616 I'll be blunt. Simply because I feel that Nocturne just kinda hogs the spotlight from every other non-Persona Megaten games. And I wont beat around the bush. Seeing stuff like Raidou, and Devil Children be ignored in favor of essays as to why Nocturne is the best thing since sliced bread. Makes me bitter. But eh, outside of expressing it from time to time. I can still deal with it.

[@Xeper616]

@@kuraux56s59 I see where you are coming from, but I don't think Nocturne has anything to do with people ignoring Devil Children.

[@Exellocks]

Homie spitting

[@Kraftium]

Always have been, Always will >:)

[@jackknight5059]

hey kraft its your good friend jack the knightman want some of this steak that i have?

[@Kraftium]

I'm done on steak for the time being no more mainline smt for a bit

[@jackknight5059]

@@Kraftium ok i'll make something different for you next video. what kind of veggies you like?

[@100Servings]

Excellent video. I usually say SMT V sucks, but you did it in a much more eloquent way, and even used a British accent!🇬🇧 My favorite point was that SMT V moves nothing forward and innovates in no ways. I'll even point out my biggest complaint: you don't gain any new movement skills as the game progresses. It's not like there are places you can't access because you don't have an ability. How much more interesting would it have been if you eventually got the ability to double jump, or use a grappling hook, or open sealed passageways, or see in the dark? Instead, you have all the movement skills at the beginning of the game and gain no more as time went on. That's not how that type of game is supposed to work. Also, when I got to the Tokyo Tower, there was nothing to do. There was no dungeon, no secrets, nothing to explore. My disappointment was audible. If you have the time, check out GILL Studio on KZbin. He plays a lot of JRPG music, especially SMT games. When you watch him play Digital Devil Saga or Devil Summoner music, he rocks out and you can see how skilled he is. He plays lead, rhythm, and bass guitar, and he's extremely impressive. When he plays SMT V music, he looks bored. It's so far below his skill, it's not even funny. (I'm still trying to get him to play Deep Night from Devil Survivor. That tune will melt your guitar.) Here's my final analysis: SMT V is Fable. It made a lot of promises, like an open world and endless exploration, a character you could truly make your own with an interesting story, and a living world that would change based on your decisions. If you've played Fable, you know how limited the game really was and how all of those promises were half truth. The world was far more limited than you thought, your choices could simply be undone at the end of the game, and your character is the blankest of slates with nothing to say. Nocturne revolutionized SMT as a franchise. SMT V didn't even have a unique interface. A year from now, it will be a forgotten footnote than no one sees a purpose in returning to. We waited almost five years for it, and it wasn't worth the wait.

[@Kraftium]

I think I'm just glad that while I enjoy SMT alot its not my favourite series in the world and the ones I like most are the weird ones like soul hackers so while I went into SMT 5 excited I wasn't hyped up like I was for lets say ... KH3 so I came out of it happy I'd still say SMT5 is a good game but its also a disapointing one, heres hoping a reworked maghatsuhi meter and the new skills will return in future games also I'll check out GILL studio thanks

[@100Servings]

@@Kraftium They've abandoned SMT V. We got day one DLC and that's it. I'm sure some day when the NDAs expire, we'll find out the truth, but for now, Atlus has moved on. I'm pumped for Soul Hackers 2, and that's less than 6 months off, so this video of yours kind of closes the book on this chapter. Disappointing, but in the past. Let's focus on the future.

[@Kraftium]

hell yeah gonna take like a 3-4 month break from SMT then raidou 2 and soul hackers 2 lets goooo

[@SlyTF1]

I've already beaten it 4 times, working on a 5th playthrough. I'll never forget it.

[@JuliusKingsleyXIII]

SMTV sucks. It was clearly not finished, and even the parts that were finished were not good. It was a step backwards from all of 4, 4A and Persona 5 in terms of gameplay. Hopefully Vengeance can fix these problems.

[@Kraftium]

I've definately soured on it quite a bit since this video The more time I ruminate on it I kinda realise the stuff I liked I only liked a bit, and the stuff I didn't like had more of an impact than I thought hopefully vengence is alot better, I imagine it can only do so much to improve the main route but hopefully the new route feels like an entirely different game