STAND DEVELOPMENT with RODINAL and Expired Film

[@DavidGriffin]

Sir, you single handedly convinced me of the power of stand developing. It's like a deeper raw image.

[@canoedoctor]

I recently made my first foray into stand development. Actually part of a deep dive into Rodinal dilutions and time for optimizing my negatives for darkroom printing. In the end, I preferred 1:25 for the way that it renders and makes easy to print negatives with a 3D rendering. However, the big surprise for me was stand development 1:200 for 4 hours. This totally levelled the results of FP4 that was exposed at box speed plus one step under and one stop over. The three exposures were nearly identical in density. I will be exploring this more in the near future

[@17xyz]

Good video. I use Rodinal 1:100 in semi stand when I have a film where the lighting varies a lot between the exposures . Even though the results are a bit flat, the frames are generally more usable for printing in the darkroom compared to a ´standard´ developing scheme. Keep up your excellent work for the analog community.

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

Thanks

[@aprilpaddock8455]

I’m going to try this with the film I used with my Holga; some people claim it’s the best way to go for Holga images.

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

Maybe because of the unpredictability of the Holga being one or two apertures and one speed you can't meter the scene accurately. Good idea

[@blobbicus]

I have recently started Rodinal stand development at 1:200 for 2 hours with reasonable results, especially with Kentmere 100.

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

Never done a 2 hour at 200. Must try! cheers

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

Whats the minimum amount of Rodinal you would use for 35mm film? Surely not just 2.5ml?

[@canoedoctor]

@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss Try it! Definitely worthwhile. You can also let it sit in the developer up to four hours.

[@vladislavstanimirovic9650]

I usually develop expired films in D76 1+17 for 1 hour, or i put 10 grams (not ml) of HC110 in 500ml of water and develop for 1hr as well.

[@MKBPresents]

Love your videos! I totally agree that using stand development with Rodinal is a great way to start film photography. However, after using it exclusively for 30 rolls of 35mm film, I decided to branch out and tried Rodinal with recommended standard times and agitation. I was amazed by the difference. First, the grain was far less noticeable. Second, I liked the contrast better and found that the lesser grain allowed me to process the shadow areas better in my scanned images. Sharpness was great because Rodinal does not have sulfite that acts as a silver solvent. Finally, I started experimenting with overexposure and underdevelopment, something that stand development does not do well. Here the results were fantastic. I got the best of both methods. Compensation and low grain. All with Rodinal. I have since moved on to 510 Pyro, because of your videos. I do some stand development with it but mostly it is the over exposure and under development by one stop that gives me the results I want. With it using 35mm film, I get images with grain and detail that rivals the medium format.

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

Sounds like you've nailed the Rodinal! Well done.

[@TrueFisp112]

So nice that you acknowledge the Rodinal 1+100 stand development! That's all I need with my favourite film Fomapan 100 (35 mm, MF and LF). I can push it to iso 800 without thinking of the exposure, after one hour all exposures are usable for printing in the darkroom (with some corrections). But I would advise you to make three slow agitations after 30 min to avoid bromide drag. So, Rodinal semistand dev is the way to go :-). And never use less than 5 ml Rodinal. Cheers/Johan

[@eysank]

Question: I just bought a small bottle of Adonal. Can I also apply your tips about stand dev onto the Adonal?

[@TrueFisp112]

​@@eysankYes, according to Adox, Adonal is exactly the same as Rodinal.

[@robscovell5951]

I do pretty much the same with Fomapan 200. I like to have massive depth of field at f-16 because I like to shoot layered street scenes. I am very happy with the results I get with semi-stand.

[@TrueFisp112]

@@robscovell5951 👍

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

Cheers Johan.

[@thomaschipman]

stand development is my go-to with pinhole as it seems to be much more forgiving.

[@blazerbarrel2]

It controls it’s contrast response .

[@ksebring6904]

This is the way

[@davidyager2579]

Thank you! Very helpful.

[@brineb58]

I do stand development when I have a few different films to develop that are different speeds!!!

[@pa1gsj]

I use 1+200 @ 500ml with good results. Usually developing for 90min. Works with Foma 100, 200 and FP4.

[@stevemitchell8839]

I did my first stand development last week and they turned out ok. I was shooting 4X5 sheet film that was expired and did not know what the film was or its speed, please with the results using Rodinal 1+100 1hr and 20 minutes, one inversion at 30 minutes. thanks for all the great videos loving seeing the process from taking the photos through the darkroom.

[@garychatfield6709]

Very informative to the new togs starting out. Good job Roger for explaining this so well.

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

Cheers Geezer! COYG

[@Pepsiphopia]

Im doing a Rodinal semi-stand right now! Good timing!

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

Hope it came out well!

[@key2adventure]

Strange, I do quite the opposite and with good results. I nearly always use expired film, liking the look of them, but I overexpose and underdevelop. For new film on the contrary I often use stand (or maybe according to your explanation in the video, semi stand), and get good results, although if I should enlarge instead of scan I probably would use normal development, as enhance the contrast digitally.

[@BarwickGreen]

Very interesting, thanks. I use stand development with Rodinal for "found film" which is very old, and for film from my pinhole camera, where exposure is a little uncertain.

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

Good Choice Roop!

[@JanneRanta]

I do 1:100 rodinal but when I tried stand and semi-stand I got uneven developing. So I changed so that I agitate at 15, 30 and 45mins and get perfect negs now.

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

Awesome! Nice one!

[@TheEPROM9]

I still need to do it. I do use good old Rodinal as my main development fluid.

[@stbgi]

My friend, thank you, very useful video. These videos save time and money. I really hope that your knee has stopped hurting and that you are playing football.

[@largophoto]

Great comparison...not sure if I have the patience for the Rodinal tbh.. you peeked my interest processing Arista creative..I rated it 64 iso for 3 mins at 30c .. in d76..stock..based on the curves put up by Foma. next time I will try a 1:1.5..and look at using Rodinal to soften the contrast..I think the taking lens is important to contrast and sharpness..but the Pentacon ..does well..

[@GrahamNorth-g8h]

Thank you for an interesting and well detailed video. I have been using Rodinal for decades but never tried stand development. Lucky you to have a stash of APX100. it was my favourite film and I have a just one roll left in my fridge (haven't used APX for years - goodness knows what I'm saving it for...). Why did you choose D23 instead of using Rodinal for your control reference with Agfa's recommendations for development? Interestingly, the recommendations of the Massive DC are quite different from those printed inside the film box. Agfa says 1:25 @ 8 mins. or 1:50 @ 17 mins. (not in box but on their datasheet), whereas MDC says 5.5 and 10 min. respectively. At any rate, thank you for some clearly presented insight into Stand development.

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

I wasn't sure Rodinal being a compensating developer would have influenced the normal development. Thats why I used D23 instead. Also I wouldn't have used Rodinal for a normal development so it was good to see for me personally lol

[@shred3005]

Used to shoot Agfa APX 100 and develop it myself back in the 90s. Lovely film. But I've never tried stand development. Might get my gear out and give it a crack.

[@rudolffamiev2188]

First, thanks a lot for this experiment and your tips for stand development. For the second - I think it is unfair to compare sharpness of the films where one is developed with acutance developer like Rodinal, and another in D-23, that is not an acutance developer. This is not to say that stand will not produce more sharper output, but to even the playground when we do our tests. As you can easily process second film with Rodinal 1+25 or 1+50. But once again - excellent experiment anyway!

[@andywalczak7659]

I started stand developing when starting but I use rodinal the ilford agitation and I like it but both devs are very good

[@Taj3d]

Love the channel and content. Thank you!!

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

Much appreciated!

[@lensman5762]

You are absolutely correct about stand development, Rog. Stand development does compress the tones and it should only be used if the luminance range of the scene far exceeds the ability of the film to record it. PS: It would be nice to see you put the Leica Q to use.

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

I am not 100% sure on the 10ml minimum rule but I've read that a lot. The Q2 Only (*edited Oddly) enough is being prepped for a video soon! ha ha. No comparisons with Digital or film but I am using it to experiment with something and to gear up to shooting it on film if I like the look!

[@MrCommonTater]

I disagree with this assessment somewhat. Semistand (wherein you agitate once mid-cylce) will compensate the highlights, but it actually expands mid-tone contrast and yields full shadow speed.

[@lensman5762]

Stand development is a form of extreme compensation. It will not yield anything if it was not there on the negative in the first place. Highlights do not usually reach their full density because the developer active agent is quickly exhausted by the halide. Less so in the midtones, but unless the scene has a wide dynamic range, no real benefit can be had by stand development. Stand development is actually a lazy version of either the two bath or water bath development. As I said, stand development has its place, but so do other developers. There is no silver bullet in B&W film development.@@MrCommonTater

[@MrCommonTater]

@@lensman5762 I have many hundreds, if not thousands, of negatives done via semistand and EMA that prove otherwise. I've taken pictures in absolutely flat grey lighting where the was essentially no mid-tone microcontast in the scene that was expanded nicely by semistand. This technique goes well beyond highlight compensation in that regard as well as with respect to improved apparent edge sharpness. It's true that it won't "yield anything if it was not there ... in the first place" but that's an unremarkable observation. What it will do - and I have proved this many many time - is manage the highlight densities, expand mid-tone contrast, drive full box ASA speed in the shadows, and provide and overall appearance of sharpness. This takes some time to master and I spend many hundreds of hours dialing in the technique required to do so properly. My observation is that people who dismiss this an not all that useful or a failed technique or just a lazy man's highlight compensation scheme inevitably have not done the required homework to have an informed position on the matter. I have. I don't think it's a panacea and it doesn't do all things well. But it does many things well.

[@GenerationAI2024]

Thanks for sharing, just got a couple of rolls taken from the storm and high tide here in Denmark and looking for the best way to stand dev. They say don't use less than 5 ml Rodinal per film, haven't heard about the 10 ml rule.

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

I've read about the 10ml rule lots of times but as I said I've never seen any difference. Funny what you read and echo without trying.

[@GenerationAI2024]

@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss Sorry i was not trying to sound smart, and yes i have tried it but never went under 5 ml per film. Why this negativity? Love everything you do here.

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

@@GenerationAI2024 I know you wasn't being smart. I replied as your comment was valid and with no negative intentions. Apologies if it came across as negative. Completely the opposite. 🙂

[@GenerationAI2024]

@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss Ah no worries, English is not my native language and i was second guessing my comment. An apology from my side is also required 😅 Again thanks for sharing, love your content and been watching for years.

[@f1remandg]

Very good and a fair balanced environments, I agree that the sharpness was quite pronounced and the exposures where consistent in comparison, I think it’s difficult to state one is better than the other, as it depends on what your looking for, but also out of date film must have an effect as your stated. I wonder if the formula of dilution would benefit from say 8 or 9 instead of 6, thus giving a ratio to work with, ie a 1/3 and a 1/2 increase in dilution.

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

A few comments on this thread about 1/200 looking better.

[@TheAdereth]

amazing video. subscribed!! Thank you!!

[@wjlafrance]

Rodinal 1+100 stand development is the first way I developed film and is still the primary way I do it. I'll occasionally develop a roll at box speed or a specific push in 1+25, but it's usually a stand. They say you shouldn't use less than 5mL for a 36exp roll of 35mm, so to accomplish that I use 500mL of solution to develop a single roll even though my tank would cover the film with 300mL, 3mL of Rodinal might not be enough. Stand is treated as a lazy development method but it's really a high-quality one!

[@NJPurling]

I would not stand develope a 120 roll film unless I had a tank that would take 3x 35mm films. It looks like your developer exhausted itself. Get an idea of the effect with fresh film. Stand development may tame the contrast of Ilford Pan F. I have used stand dev when using Rollei 80S, a.k.a Agfa Aviphot 80. I will also stand develope some T Max 100 that is even more expired than that Agfapan 100.

[@thenutter2003]

never done stand developing but after watching this i can see why people like using it.

[@mnoliberal7335]

I have heard that you "lose film speed" with many developers. Therefore, the difference in the digital camera's meter at f11, and the negative looking darker at f11 than the digital shot might be the Rodinal. There are developers that maintain film speed but I don't know if they are suitable for stand development so I stick with Rodinal or HC-110. HC110 if the film is seriously expired.

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

D23 gave the same under exposed negs as Rodinal. The digital light meter was the same as my hand held meter. (F11, 1/8th) If that was fresh film and developed correctly my metered exposures would have been very close to the digital shot. I've never tried HC110. One on my bucket list!

[@mkshffr4936]

So if I am following properly there may be some advantage to using stand development when using non-adjustable cameras such as the old box and brownie cameras by effectually giving you more latitude in getting printable negatives if not ideal. Does that sound right?

[@Murgoh]

I use stand development with Rodinal especially for medium and large format, mostly because it's less work and more economical and I'm lazy and cheap.

[@MrCommonTater]

One small point of nomenclature: A development with a midpoint agitation is ordinarily called "semistand". Your 510 Pyro example is ordinarily called "Exterme Minimal Agitation". "Stand" means having only one initial agitation. Risk of bromide drag can be reduced by agitating more at the beginning. I seminstand and EMA process everything by first prewetting for 3 minutes, followed by 2 minutes of continuous agitation. I do not get the overall contrast compression you show here. I suspect that's because of the increased initial agitation time. My mid-tones actually increase local contrast via these techniques. But I am using Pyrocat-HD and D-23 when I semistand process, which might be a factor. I've successfully processed films over 60 years old using semistand, albeit with Pyrocat-HD, not Rodinol.

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

Whats your semi stand process for D-23?

[@MrCommonTater]

@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss 1:2 or 1:3. 3min prewash, 2min continuous agitation, stand until 31min, 15 sec agitation, stand until 60min and then pull. Open 1/2 gal tank with Nikor reel sitting on a small inverted funnel to get it away from bottom. Sheet film hung horizontally with minimal contact hanger. No hanging frames or plastic reels.

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

@@MrCommonTater I will give that a go in D23. Why the prewash though? I've never noticed any reason to prewash. Other than to clear the dye off the film.

[@MrCommonTater]

@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss There is a (debatable) theory that prewetting makes the emulsion more able to easily absorb developer and thereby develop more consistently and evenly. As you point out, this also washes away the anti-halation dye. Like I said, this is unproven theory and is at least debatable. I started doing this some years ago and just left it in the workflow for consistency's sake as it won't do any harm and may actually help. The only thing is that you do want all your solutions to be closely matched in temperature including the prewash.

[@donball9777]

going to give this ago.

[@miroslavnovotny5025]

Hello, question to the profesional. I mixed 0.5l of rodinal. Used just for one film. After2 months i tried to Develop second film bit that one Is empty. Is it possible that after one use Is degradation so fast? Thank you

[@joshualandry3160]

If my understanding of the theory is correct stand development uses close to 100% of the active agent to develop the film. That is why it is so insensitive to time and temperature.

[@timothyplatt6053]

Just water from the tap for the stand development? Any benefits to using purified water or distilled water? Great videos!

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

I've seen no differences using our tap water. Not so easy to get distilled water here. But I have tried de-ironised water.

[@timothyplatt6053]

@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss Great thanks. Outstanding channel

[@nineteenseventy4588]

Does one Turn after 30 min really protect from bromide drag?

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

I've not seen any drag this way with Rodinal.

[@krishnansrinivasan830]

Awesome :)

[@robscovell5951]

Is there any advantage to presoaking the film?

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

I've never seen any. I guess maybe the feeling that the film is all prepped for the developer and the temp maybe?

[@Lemmispeak]

ah my go to way of developing haha

[@matthewdeacon1970]

I sometimes stand develop for the sake of financial expediency 😝. I just on Thursday developed 2 sheet films of Fomapan 100 in Rodinal (Fomadon R09). I used stand development, agitating for about 10 seconds initially then once at the halfway mark. I only did 50 minutes though, as I find Fomapan builds up contrast quite quickly. I'd rather have a slightly flat negative which I can then edit in the darkroom than lots of blown out highlights.

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

I often under develop my films for that reason Matthew so I can increase the contrast on the print as you say. Nice one.

[@ThingOfSome]

There isn't a 10mL rule for Rodinal.

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

What you hear and read eh!

[@ThingOfSome]

@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss Some say the minimum is 2.5mL per roll of 135, but if it develops as you want less could work fine, right?

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

I'll have to try 1ml for 5 hours! @@ThingOfSome

[@AnotherOtherMan-alive]

Stand development is great to make time in the darkroom easier when you've got higher contrast frames. That said you'll probably want to do a similar test with rodinal in different formulations not just comparing two different variables. Also a test likely done with ND filters to preserve all other aspects of the older cameras.

[@GeertKuster]

Yes 1+100 Rodinal on Foma 100 and Foma 400 is my preferred way of developing these films. I also wiggle once at 30mins in. With the modern APX100 I keep it at 1+50 and regular inversions.

[@theoldfilmbloke]

Shutter on old Pentacon Six probably not accurate I know my 1971 one is very out !

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

I've actually checked them Pete recording sound waves on the computer from other cameras and they seem pretty good Pete.

[@kayhankayar531]

I only do stand dev when I push the film.

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

Interesting Kayan.

[@photomukund]

Why D23? Rodinal for both types of development would've been a better comparison.

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

Good question I didn't mention. I had two films to experiment with (and more I want to shoot and develop in D23) I wanted to see how that expired film performed with D23 which I use often and intend to use for the remainder. Another reason I didn't want Rodinal to compensate in any way in normal development.

[@photomukund]

@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss Thank you. Still...the next time, it will be great if you could use the same developer for control as well as the test version. Thanks for your videos. Inspiring.

[@carltanner9065]

I'd much prefer to sit and develop than stand, it's better on my back, but I suppose horse for courses🤣🤣🤣😝😝😝

[@ShootFilmLikeaBoss]

Bom Boom! LOL

[@RickMahoney2013]

I take the easy way out and send my film to The DarkRoom in California.

[@rick-fstop-lewis]