Short Circuit Protection for Your Model Railroad DCC System

Short circuit protection for your model railroad DCC system using 1156 automotive light bulbs for short management. Here is an easy, inexpensive way to protect your locomotives and DCC system as well as eliminate total system shut downs due to a short on one location of your layout.
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[@clydebaltzer6195]

It is good to see someone who helps manage costs for those of us who have to budget to enjoy our hobby.

[@klarion]

When they say it's "crude", they just mean you're not spending enough money on their sponsor's products ;) I like this system. Simple, efficient, cheap.

[@denzil932]

Yet again another excellent video. Many thanks, and keep them coming.

[@westend6788]

Thank you for a great and informative tutorial. I know this is an old clip but I am new to DCC and have had a lot of problem managing short circuits. If followed your instructions pretty closely and I have had no further issues. I appriciate you taking the time out to show your method. It was cheap and relatively easy to follow.

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

I am glad you found it helpful and it worked out for you. I've been very happy with this method for many years.

[@westend6788]

@@RonsTrainsNThings Thanks again, I just finished wiring my dcc layout and it seems to be working fine. its been a great help your instructions were very easy to follow and its a great cheap idea. On a side note, I was wondering if you may have some advice or past videos about short circuits and how to find them on your layout?

[@scottrobertson56]

I know this is an old video, but I was curious as to why you do not suit case your feeders directly to your main bus wire. What in your opinion is the benefit of having a secondary bus wire? Perhaps you mentioned this before but I missed it. Thanks for your postings. Always informative.

[@TAG-LRG]

May be crude but I'd much rather pay 2.50 than 35. Also with the bulb in the place you need it. I think this is a great way of doing it. Thank you very much for sharing this information with everyone.

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

Thanks. I'm glad you found it helpful.

[@thelowmein9143]

I read about this as a method of providing blocks and short location assistance on a small layout without having to buy additional DCC boosters and actually truly isolate a section (it’d be overkill for my project). It didn’t make sense until I saw this video, thanks!

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

It is not a perfect solution if for some reason you were to leave your layout on and trains running, but assuming you stay with your trains so you see a short when it happens--and why wouldn't you--it works great.

[@pacbeltrr38]

It really is hard to find good help these days! LOL!! Ron, I can concur that I've used this system of protection for nearly 36 years, DC and DCC, and have never experienced a problem! It's simple, and it works, Period. It has bugged me and even infuriated me, how some people have described this, in several forums through the past two decades. Some, just had no clue how to break it down to the simplest terms... SOME felt the need to Rube Goldberg it to the point where I was baffled!!! They wanted to play the "Cool Dude" or the "I'm a far superior person to you"!!! ONE name particularly comes to mind, but I'll refrain. You said it - the easiest and most direct. It even let's you know WHERE the short occurred!! What more could a guy possibly want? Someone commented about using sockets for the bulbs. I used them for quite a while. It was because inflation hadn't gone Mad yet (like nowadays!). It was also because I was in the Automotive Business.... I was able to buy a bag of 30 sockets for under 20 bucks!! No way that could happen today, so I'm fine with soldering. BTW, even whenever they were dirt cheap, it was STILL a waste. I never had to replace a bulb!! Carmine 🚂

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

+PacbeltRR Thanks for your comment. Itotally agree.

[@rayutrup9076]

I like your video and I go to try what I see in video and may be some change to it

[@3rdTrickGang]

This is genius I've been having issues with frying decoders because of random shorts on my layout I think I'm going to try this method. I'm all about saving money and getting it done cheap and effective! My layout is only a 4 x 6 x 5. So I'm not really using any distribution blocks but I'm thinking that if I put one of these in on the main bus it would be better than nothing

[@CharlieH65]

Bravo Ron bravo !! I've spent nearly 3 years trying to start this hobby and my model railroad. Since there are no clubs close or anyone I even know of that does model RR-info in my area, most of that time I've spent looking for ideas and ultimately for a You tube channel that "just fits" into the questions I have and that right level of technical help. By George, I believe RTNT is it !! I can hardly wait for follow up about track feeders !! The outtakes are wonderful. Such a great end to a great video !! Great Job RM !! !!! !!

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

+MrChuckster65 Thanks, Chuck (correct me if that's wrong). I am so glad you find the videos helpful. I'll try to keep being helpful. Thanks for watching and welcome.

[@thomradice8680]

Great presentation Ron. Very helpful as I explore different ways to add a breaker system. Very crisp; no extemporaneous, unnecessary chatter about unrelated jabber. This system I have heard about from a friend who uses this method in areas where he wants visibility to which area is shorted vs. needing to look under the layout. He has his mounted in view but discretely unobtrusive. And your take-outs were precious!

[@christiaanbrown4278]

Definitely effective! one may wish to place the bulb in such a way as to be able to see it light on the top of the board through some part of the scenery, such as a cabin, house, well, or some other part of the layout that would make sense to light-up or would be unexpected to light-up like the bottom of the river. Ron you have done an excellent job explaining how the system works as well, I was watching another video about this same thing and I couldn't understand a thing they were saying about this. now I fully understand it.

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

I'm glad I could help. Thanks for watching.

[@Konigstiger222]

LOL "I dont want you to kill me with them!" great video Ron

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

+Konigstiger222 Thanks for watching. Yes, he decided to throw them lie a baseball at one point, like thats what I had in mind. Ha ha.

[@swyntopia]

Thank you very very much ! It is so helpful ! I plan to use a 3 cell Lipo Powerpack, the speed controlled by a microcontroller ( ATTiny ) PWM. Portable, that´s why the Powerpack. Those Lipo provide a lot of amps, so in case of accidental short circuit there is a real danger for burning your house. ( I did one, but had luck. ) If not by the cables, then by the Lipo Powerpack ! And you can use the reduced Voltage as signal to stop the PWM ! -->Double safety ! Once more: thank you !

[@bobainsworth5057]

SorryI sent that before finishing. As I said I installed a system ion a friends layout and ever since that everytime the lights come on someone screams " short on block X, Y, X . When they really mean on overload. I bet your lights light up if you try to put two or three sets of engines on with stay alives at the same time. Then again this may not happen with "N" guage. Good video a lot of help for those of us that need it.

[@clejax]

Ron, and Anon (with the comment just below... Correct, and this works because the automotive incandescent bulb resistance changes with heat... Normal operation with relatively low current flowing to the Locomotive motors = Bulb is cool = Low resistance = Not enough current flowing through the circuit path to cause the bulb to start glowing. With a "short circuit" on the track... the high current flow thru the series bulb filament wire warms it up = Bulb starts glowing with its filament now hot, and the filament resistance rises from the high heat, which then limits the total current that can flow through the circuit, preventing the DCC Supply Breaker from tripping. The proper description of this circuit is Elegant, not crude at all.

[@olddogg60]

I was curious, so I checked out the specs on the 1156 bulb and the resistance is 6 ohms. Just some of trivia here. 😊 Thanks for all the great tips. 👍

[@KWE.ECLECTIC]

thanks for that info, it's very helpful. What kind of wattage rating? Any idea? I would like to use a larger diode with a resistor attached, and have the diodes mounted on a maintenance panel pointing to each district.

[@olddogg60]

@@KWE.ECLECTIC SYLVANIA spec's it at 26.88 watts. I would call it 27 watts. 😊

[@Mercatoyd]

Ron, this is a very easy but effective way to insulate the layout from electrical harm.. excellent video..I added this to my favs as well as my watch again later folder.. Tom

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

Thanks, Tom. I have had some questions about this process, so I will do a follow-up video next week showing how I connect my "sub-bus" to track feeders and where I insulate track for short mgt districts and how I decide where to do that.

[@newfenrisrailroad621]

Want to say great video on short management.it lets me see how to wire a layout and I’m just getting back into model trains and things.

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

I'm so glad you found it helpful.

[@markhayes6407]

Great way to help the shorts. I have had some and it has stopped all of them. Plan to use your system soon.

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

Let me know how it goes. Thanks for watching.

[@idon84]

Shorts, Ha! Great video, the first one that makes total sense. Thanks

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

Thank you. Hope it helps.

[@ethynvillebro4208]

SWEETA!!! TIP I have been trying to figure out what I needed to do in this case cuz are layout has gotten so big, now we can run 4 to 5 trains at a time but when one trips they all stop & with the Bachmann EZ Commander controller you have to go back to all the locomotives and start them up again,, this tip I find very helpful thank you so much for sharing 1156 SWEETA!!!!,,,,THANKS Ron,,, from ETHYNVILLE BRO420

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

I'm glad you found it helpful. I am doing a follow up next Tuesday that you may also find helpful as you think about wiring up your layout for short management.

[@michaelmcdougall4527]

Thanks 🙏🏼 This Method is GREAT 👍🏻 I will say it’s the KISS METHOD it’s so Simple C&O Guy

[@nssherwoodsub]

I got a laugh when I saw The Sun listed as part of your equipment. I'll have to try that on my next video.

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

+Norfolk Southern Sherwood Subdivision Wow! Thanks for noticing. I thought it was funny, but I thought no one read that stuff because its been on there for months and no one had commented. Thanks for the comment. Lol

[@rgs455atw]

thank you, very clear, now I know where the bulb goes and how to connect it.

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

Thank you for your comment and thanks for watching.

[@Anon-Ymous2065]

For those of you who wonder why this works try this explanation. A 1196 auto bulb draws a little more than 3 Amps of current in a 12 Volt tail light circuit. According to Ron the motors in his trains use far less than that (they are high resistance) so there normally is not enough current in the feeder wire to make the bulb glow. When there is a short however, the resistance in the circuit goes down to near zero (not up like he says at 4:57). When that happens the only resistance in the circuit now is the bulb (about 4 Ohms) which draws all the amps it needs to light up.

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

Yes, I misspoke regarding resistance going up, as I've acknowledged multiple times in the comments.

[@clejax]

Correct, and this works because the automotive incandescent bulb resistance changes with heat... Normal operation with relatively low current flowing to the Locomotive motors = Bulb is cool = Low resistance = Not enough current flowing through the circuit path to cause the bulb to start glowing. With a "short circuit" on the track... the high current flow thru the series bulb filament wire warms it up = Bulb starts glowing with its filament now hot, and the filament resistance rises from the high heat, which then limits the total current that can flow through the circuit, preventing the DCC Supply Breaker from tripping. The proper description of this circuit is Elegant, not crude at all.

[@phil36310]

I never understood this until watching your well done video. Thanks for sharing... and now I need to correct some mistakes I made regarding "districts" and how simply use insulated rail joiners. Greetings, Filip

[@eus105611]

Great video! this method makes perfect sense. there's really no way that the amperage could spike higher than the bulb allows, which i think is 2 amps and that's not enough to damage anything. At least based on my somewhat limited knowledge of electronics.

[@andyrusten5748]

Super great idea I assume it'll also work for ho

[@BobFarnell]

It's bloody wonderful

[@phil36310]

Hi Ron, thanks for sharing this very nice explained and demonstrated $ saving protection system. I like this Kiss ! ( Keep It Simple - not - Stupid) Instead of spending + 120$ on 'high tech circuit protection' I'll finish more scenery now. Greetings from France, Filip

[@giulius7176]

Great video!!...I will be using this when I build my layout ...Thanks for explaining ...

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

Thanks for watching. I'm glad you found it helpful.

[@jibebuoy3451]

Crude? IMO this design represents the essence of model railroading: creating, building, learning and having fun. It is simple, fundamental, effective and reliable. I would call that elegant. Those who call it crude are jealous they didn’t think of it themselves. 😀

[@The282mike]

Who cares about crude? It works effectively, is simple and inexpensive,! The hi tech aren't making any money selling you their circuit breakers, hense there crude. Elegant if you ask me! Happy modeling. Keep doing these great videos Ron.

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

Thanks Mike. I agree 100%. Some get hung up on the 1% chance that something could theoretically go wrong.

[@MUDDMINNOW]

This is a cool idea.

[@krobibero]

Great video and an excellent idea. Have you tried putting a multi-meter to rails to measure amps during a short? I'd be curious on your layout how much the current actually drops to protect the locos from damage. Also, for anyone considering doing this, there are also amber colored bulbs (p/n 1156A) available if you prefer.

[@louiecano1413]

Hey Ron thanks for the great how to's,new subscriber,longtime viewer,I 've been working on my 9x5x7x5 L shape to all your how to's will be a great help thanks again

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

Hey, Louie. Thanks for watching and subscribing. Good luck on that layout. I hope to see some updates about your progress on KZbin down the road.

[@AntonioLopes-on4pe]

Great video Ron. Thanks for sharing. I'll definetely try it on my layout, as I have several sections that I want to split for better management. This will give me the chance to install the lamps on the different sub-buses. I'll also try to install the lamps so that they are visible on the fascia, and that way are able to give me an immediate indication of which section has a fault. Perhaps smaller bulbs could be an option. As long, of course, as they have similar characteristics. Thanks once again for sharing. All the best.

[@douglasdunn1836]

Did you mount the bulbs on the fascia? How did you do the mounting?

[@kraigsickels3918]

Great video Ron ..... what an idea 💡!!! I learned a lot . That was a nice way to explain your process on fixing that issue. 😄 I have an ho scale layout using Digitrax and by reading all of the other comments, I think 🤔 that I should be ok 👌. Again thanks Ron !

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

+Kraig Sickels If you don't walk off and leave your layout tunning unattended this will work great. The technique has been around for years--clear back to the DC days--and used by many HO scalers including Joe Fugate's large layout.

[@michaelstanco8508]

Great video !! very clear and concise...will be useful to me when I build my first layout..

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

Thank you for your comment and thanks for watching.

[@sleepingwithtrains1862]

Very help full information,great video. the bloopers at the end are funny

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

Thanks for watching. I love knowing that people watch long enough to see those. They are fun to do.

[@frankbullitt4556]

cool idea

[@Steve-hf2vf]

Thank you for sharing your knowledge.

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

+Steve Thanks for watching.

[@markjolyn94]

A great tip Ron,thank you. Of course NCE thinks it's crude,because you aren't buying their expensive version. I think itbwould be great to put the buld in an electronics or trouble shooting building.

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

That is an interesting idea. Mine are just under the layout, so you see it glowing on the floor when there is a short.

[@voodooutt]

@@RonsTrainsNThings Hi there, is possible to replace the light bulb with an LED + resistor (so LED does not burn out). I am wanting to wire the LED to my control panel, so I can track shorts/faults on my panel directly.... thanks.

[@csxbaltimoresubdivision7746]

greek technical video, thanks for sharing, I will try this out.

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

+CSX 8840 CSX Baltimore sub division Thanks for watching. Let me know how it turns out for you.

[@davidmuse7004]

Ron, great video and idea. I thought about this method of "short protection" when I started building my layout, but I let my brother talk me into using the NCE EB-1's for that purpose. I like them and they do a great job, but if one or all get damaged somehow, it will cost more to replace. I think for a couple of other sections I will use this method of protection. Really enjoy your videos and information. Last thing, I think your helper just wanted to keep throwing shorts at you!! LOL LMAO D. Muse WTCMRR

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

+David Muse Lol, I think you are right about that last bit. Thanks for watching. I'm glad you find the videos enjoyable and useful..

[@lionellance]

Thanks Ron... I'll keep this in mind when I get to my wiring... thanks for sharing and keep up the great work.. Lance

[@PilotViewProductions]

I am appreciative of your comments on not leaving the train unattended. I am curious if you've experienced a short that would light the bulb long enough to create a fire hazard underneath your layout. My question is with regards to the heat produced by the bulb during a short. Thanks

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

I don't think fire is of any concern. The heat generated is no more than that generated when the same bulb is used in your car's tail lights. The bigger concern is leaving a short for a long time and damaging a locomotive or decoder. I know one person to whom this happened, but it did because he left the train running and the short was left for several hours.

[@johnmacdonald6220]

Ron you know the corporations don't like it when someone comes up with an idea that have customers buying items that doesn't benefit their bottom line. Nice video Thank You Crude LOL more like prudent

[@dacuzzz]

hi Ron... great idea for short management... i will copy your technique when i get a little further along on my layout.. thanks for sharing.. vinny.. PS... i thought we were going to Skype yesterday...

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

Hey, Vinny. This system works great and is really cheap. Sorry about yesterday. I really want to get together about that Idea I pitched to you, but yesterday got totally crazy at work--ended up being about a 13 hour day. I am leaving on vacation tomorrow, so lets try to skype when I get back, say Aug 1 sometime. Will that work for you?

[@dacuzzz]

sure Ron whenever your ready just let me know

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

Will do. Life has been pretty crazy around the Marsh household the past few weeks. Getting ready for vacation is almost more work that staying at work. Plus my wife is going back to school to get her Masters degree starting in the fall, my middle son starts college in the fall, and my oldest daughter will be a senior in college, not to mention my 8th grader. Getting ready to send all of these people to college is about to cause me to pull what little hair I have left out.

[@arfyness]

For a couple bucks extra you can get dozens of bulb holders from eBay. Also, any 25-30w automotive (12v) tungsten bulb will work. It doesn't have to be the 1156 bulb shape to have these same electrical characteristics.

[@start2finishcoatingsstart278]

Great informative video ron thanks again

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

+sps railroad Layout update Thanks.

[@MZTrainsChannel]

thanks I melted a few trucks I might try it asap !!

[@Westcoasttrucker916]

Just joined thank you for the helpful advice I’m new to train layout I have kato ho engines

[@Vman7757]

I use this system. I learned it from Joe too.

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

+Vincent Sanders Have you been happy with it? What scale do you model?

[@Vman7757]

Yes I have been using them form the very first time I got Joe's CDs. I make up around 15 sitting at my desk. They work well and easy to use. Love them in fact.

[@Vman7757]

Yes. I am in N scale. I am building a new layout and will be using it again. It works great.

[@rossgunn-imdrr2893]

Great idea. I'm putting together my purchase of these parts but I do wish you had included a parts list. I'm only guessing that the cable clamps are about a half-inch but it would have been better if you had actually listed the size of the part needed. also, I had to sift through about 25 pages of terminal blocks until I found one that was close that didn't also include a lot of extraneous pieces that I didn't need. It would be great if you could update me with all of the actual pieces you used. It's hard for me to get out of the house to buy these things in person so I have to rely on Amazon for most of my parts.

[@sharkzf6]

Whoever said this method is "crude" does not appreciate basic electronics concepts... ;)

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

Thank you. This system has its limitations, yes, but to believe the only solution to every problem is another $50 piece of high tech gadgetry has just bought in to a sales pitch.

[@arfyness]

In sensitive applications, keep in mind tungsten still allows quite a bit of inrush current in the half second or so it takes turning from off (low resistance) to on (high resistance). It could be 20+ amps depending on the bulb used. Once lit, the current is limited to 2A. As long as the power supply can serve the inrush, tungsten is an elegant solution in my opinion. PTC resistors are also pretty cheap and quite useful. If you get the right kind, they can give you a sharper current limit with less inrush time, but they certainly don't illuminate where the fault is.

[@MrMikeAA]

for $2 you can purchase the bulb socket that can be secured with a screw onto the deck

[@trevorsmith2152]

Hi Ron I’ve just subscribed to your channel and found this technic of interest. I also subscribe to the dcc guy Larry Pucket, and he talks about RT filters, or other wise known as a snubbers, which uses a resister and capacitor to absorb electrical spikes. My question is do these two techniques serve the same purpose?

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

No, the two concepts serve different purposes and are not interchangable.

[@SleeTheSloth]

Thank you. This video was a huge help! I just sub. to your channel. :)

[@whateverworksrailroad7471]

Thank You :)

[@ZanesTrains1972]

Why did you chose to use 12 gauge wire for your buss? I see it unnecessary your not running 110 VAC. My buss is 16 gauge. Great tip by the way. I just see it as over kill good job for picking stranded wire and the lot. I was strolling thought the comments and saw pretty much every comment some one left had a thumbs up I believe you do that and I like channels that do that. ~Zane

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

+Zane's Trains I use 12 AWG bus wire to avoid power drop over distance. I'm not worried about overheating wire, but smaller wire creates resistance that can interfere with signal over distance. I would probably be ok with 14 AWG--longest bus run is probably 30 feet or so--but I had the 12 AWG on hand from a previous layout that had a longer run, plus the 12 AWG was more readily available in single wire in my small town where I originally lived and purchased it.

[@ZanesTrains1972]

16 gauge is the biggest wire i recommend 16 gauge has the same benefits as 12 gauge and 12 gauge WAS the only readily available in your small town.

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

+Zane's Trains Was in that I don't live there anymore. There all I could get localky in single strand was 12 awg, 18awg automotive wire, and 22 awg hook up wire. Not true where I live now.

[@douglasdunn1836]

Ron, Nice video and I plan to wire some of these detectors into my layout. But, I understand that the bulbs are under your layout next to the bus - how do you see the lights lit up if they are under the layout?

[@TrashMan2008]

Ron, this was a great episode and I have learned. Lot. We use this technique at the club Keystone N Trak. We have ours looked right into the Digitrax boosters. Thanks so much for the info in super fine details. Question about curve radius. Your curves look nice and smooth just on the prototypes. What radius do you use and how do you get such smooth transitions. Also when would you go from a curve into to a turnout or would you allow the curve to straight then add the turnout. Yup I guess it sounds like a track laying episode on a Ron's Trains N Things. LOL

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

+TrashMan2008 Thanks for watching. I plan to do some track laying episodes down the road. These questions are helpful as I plan that. I use 18" minimum radius on the main and I use easements and superelevation. I use the bent stick method for drawing easements. I think I will include all of this in a video and plan to do it the first part of September. So watch for that.

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

FYI: I am making a video on laying out curves, easements, and superelevation right not. It is in post as we speak and will be out next Tue (Aug. 22). The video was inspired by this question and I read the question and credited you in the video. Thanks for watching my videos and always posting great comments, questions, and suggestions. I really helps me as a KZbin creator to know how to move forward to produce content that my viewers want, need, and enjoy. Thanks again. 👍👍

[@stefandenouden205]

Im just wondering, im new in the hobby, and i was wondering if there was a LED version for this also if so please send me to it... LOVE your vids !!!

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

I'm no expert, but LEDs work very differently and their current draw is quite different from an incandescent, so I'm not sure if or how that would work.

[@PilotViewProductions]

Ron, am curious where you purchase your terminal strips. Even if you don't wish to reveal the source, would you please share the particulars with regards to voltage and amp ratings? I'm planning to follow your example, but there are tons of terminal strips out there with varying descriptions. Thank you

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

I rarely pay much attention to those specs as the voltage and amperage needed for a layout are so low. Anything rated for at least 12 volts and 5 amps should suffice in nearly any model railroad situation.

[@pukavita]

I’m new to this and I am wondering why would you need to use different power districts with DCC? (I mean, other than a reversing loop where you’d have to swap the two wires.) I can understand that with a DC system power districts enable you to switch power to the respective track segments on and off. For example if you would want to leave a train staging on a track or a spur line, you’d power that track off. With DCC, as I understand, you’d simply not address the DCC signal to the respective locomotive.

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

Good question. There are two primary reasons. First, for a larger layout, you may need more power than your DCC system alone produces, so you may employ power boosters and each booster would power it's own district. Second, and more commonly, if you operate your layout with more than one person and thus have more than one train running at once, you will probably want to break your layout into short management districts. Without them if any train shorts the rails the entire system shuts down ala the power breaker in the unit. Using short management districts with bulbs as I describe here or breakers in each district allows the other trains on other parts of the layout to keep running even when one train on one district shorts out. It also provides your equipment some additional protection from damage resulting from a short.

[@pukavita]

@@RonsTrainsNThings Thanks for your detailed answer. Good points! Much appreciated!

[@chrisswihart887]

Hi Ron I am just getting in to the hobby ho scale and have learned so much from watching your videos, my question is this... once you know you have a short Circuit what causes it to short and how do I go about fixing the problem thanks Chris.

[@pd1jdw630]

A current limiting light bulb this idea when repairing old tube radio. If there is a short the light glows bright. If the radio is ok. The light bulb doesn’t ore glows lightly. Albeit, this is 230volt. Ore 120 in the USA. Principal is the same idea. If there is a short the light bulb takes the current. Hence, current limiting circuit.

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

+J.D. Willemsen Yes, that is exactly right.

[@scottrobertson56]

I know this is an old video, but I was curious as to why you do not suit case your feeders directly to your main bus wire. What in your opinion is the benefit of having a secondary bus wire? Perhaps you mentioned this before but I missed it. Thanks for your postings. Always informative.

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

There are 2 reasons. 1) Using the sub-bus allows me to use the light bulb protection on each sub-bus to protect that district. 2) Because I use suitcase connectors, there is no connector to connect a 12 gauge wire (my main bus) to a 22 gauge wire (my feeders). A third reason is it keeps my main bus from becoming cluttered with offshoots. If I make a change and need to rewire, I can change that district without touching the main bus.

[@scottrobertson56]

@@RonsTrainsNThings thanks for your explanation to my question. I did realize a few of those reasons the next day, but your full explanation really filled in the blanks. Sound reasoning for sure!

[@nscaled1]

Can someone explain to me why this works? To my mind, there is current already running through the 1156 bulb in series, why does a short then cause the bulb to light but running your train over this district does not?

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

Ok, here is the best explanation I can give. When the DCC system is working properly it is a low-voltage system, thus very little actual power is flowing through the circuit. Incandescent bulbs are designed to work at higher voltages. At low voltage the resistance in the bulb is low, thus it does not light. Then there is a short circuit, the power flowing through the circuit jumps dramatically, thus there is more power flowing through the buld and it lights. When it lights, the resistance in the bulb jumps as well, thus limiting the amount of current running through other parts of the circuit and protecting delicate electronics from quickly burning up. I'm sure others could offer a better explaination than this, but hopefully this gets the idea across.

[@mach37]

@@RonsTrainsNThings I only play an engineer on the internet, but I think the term is "current." That is, there is very little current flowing through the bulb while the trains are running, but when a short occurs, the bulb is the "path of least resistance." Something like that? (That's probably wrong; maybe someone who really knows will pipe up now. Why doesn't it light up when no trains are running?)

[@fwparman]

I am new to model railroading, especially the electrical side. I have looked-up all of the parts for short management on the Allelectronics.com website, but it get confused when they list 2 or three options for the same part. For instance, insulated vs non-insulated spade lugs. Which one is recommended? Also, what size #10, #8, etc.? Could you give me a list of those kinds of specifics for each of the parts where those kinds of specifics apply? Thank you. I really like your videos. Your explanations are well organized and and your illustrations are outstanding!

[@seanbillingham4887]

Hi Ron, i enjoyed your video and am just building my first model rail i have mastered soldering jumpers to n gauge track etc and come from an engineering background but there is no way i can get the solder to adhere to the side of the taillight bulb. I have filed it, used ethanol to clean it, used a rosin flux with an adjustable 65 watt soldering iron. Can you tell me what i am doing wrong the base terminals are no problem? Many thanks SRB

[@jibebuoy3451]

Great video! What size cable clamp do you use for the bulb, 1/2”?

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

Yes, 1/2"

[@rally8959]

Great video. How many feet of track do you typically run on one bulb for short protection. Thanks

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

That depents. My minimum main line district is at least as long as my longest train, but I put entire industrial districts and entire yards on one district. The important thing to to separate these from the main line districts so a short in a yard ladder will not shut down the main line.

[@Tom-vd1kr]

RON, I know this is an old thread, but I know Joe Fugate no longer recommends this method. He now says to use circuit breakers. Are you still using the bulb method? Tom

[@sonysnapper]

Our club uses the CP6 however as shipped the bulbs are only 1 amp, we are an HO club so 3 engines usually max the circuit. NCE also has available 1.75 amp bulbs so those have allowed us to continue operating. A drawback is an unnoticed short on the CP6 caused the heat from the CP6 bulbs to scorch the CP6 board. Now my questions What is the amperage of the 1156? Is there a way to put a buzzer in the circuit so the short is both audible and visual ?

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

The 1156 bulb is rated at 2.1 amps. As for a buzzed, that should be possible, but I've never tried it or seen it done.

[@mtnestr9850]

I like this idea but would like to add a small Indicator Light on top of my layout. I would use a 12v bulb but does this bulb need to draw a certain minimum amps? Could I use a LED bulb?

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

I realized as I was doing the post on this video that I did not make clear how I divide my layout into short management districts. Basically I insulate the track to make districts wherever short circuits are likely to occur. This is usually where there are turnouts. Thus yards are their own districts. I usually group several industrial tracks in one area into a single district. My staging yards are their own districts. On the mainline I want each district to be at least as long as my longest train and I insulate between mainline districts where there are turnouts--into yards, industries, or passing sidings. If you have a different method of setting up short protection on you layout, please let me know how you do it in the comments below.

[@rg1809]

This comment has me curious. I am building a very small 2 x 4 N scale layout, a large diorama if you will, to gain some level of competency in all areas of model railroading before tackling a larger project. It is a simple oval with two turnouts, one servicing east town and one servicing west town, one turnout on the N and one turnout S on the layout. If I understand you correctly, ideally I should have 2 districts, that is, two short circuit protections and isolating the track, west from east? Yes, it will be a DCC wired layout. I'm sure I could get by with one, but maybe you know what I mean here. Also, and I am just thinking out loud here, you place the bulb between the primary main bus and the secondary main bus, could you place the bulb in series with the main bus, if you don't need a secondary main? By the way, "crude" is meant to entice you to purchase the 35$ circuit breaker, which is, after all, sophisticated. ;-)

[@andrewl9191]

"Short management districts." This means nothing to me. Can you describe what you mean by this? How do you isolate any of this? When I made my layout, it's just all basically two wires that go out from the Digitrax system and then my droppers, basically, draw current from the two wires and are attached to the track. How does any of this get separated from anything else? Are you using additional hardware for this from NCE or whoever you use? What is a "district?" Can you draw a diagram with what you mean by a district and anything else that goes into keeping them separated? I too have insulators on some of my rails so part of the tracks are separate from others, but they're still all connected through the wiring under the layout. I'm trying to understand. Thanks!

[@devganesh7808]

Hi Ron, I like your videos, they're very informative. I've been wondering why you have specified 1156 automotive bulbs; I mean, why not just any 12V bulb?

[@waltworld]

Hey Ron, enjoyed the YTMB Live Show. Great job. When I get to wiring up my new layout this sounds like the way to go. What's the spacing of your lightbulbs, as in how long are your sub-power districts? Thanks.

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

Thanks for watching, Walt. I realized in editing that I didn't say this clearly, but you need one bulb in every short district which I divide and insulate at natural breaks in the layout. I make the mainline into districts of its own, insulating it at turnouts where shorts might occur--e.g. at sidings or entrances to yards or industry tracks. On the main I try to make every district at least as long as my longest train. My yards are each a large district of their own as are passing sidings. Basicly I think about where shorts are most likely to occur--where there are turnouts--and make short mgt districts around those areas to contain those shorts and not shut down the layout. If you saw my track plan on the Live Show the other night, I have a total of 15 districts on my layout including both staging yards.

[@jeffwardlow4626]

Hey Ron, How can you do this without terminal connectors? Using suitcase connectors

[@mic6755]

Hi Ron, just getting into wiring my first layout (4x8) with DCC and am wondering with using the light bulb idea, how do you know these are lighting up if it is hidden under the the layout?

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

It is bright enough you know.

[@HumancityJunction]

Are you still using the lighbulbs for short circuit protection? Did you switch to electronic circuit breakers.

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

I am still using the bulbs and have no intention of switching. It would just be a high, unnecessary pricetag.

[@ritzoh]

Hi Ron, Thank's for the video! Great solution to what could be a costly problem. One question, in your opinion would the length of the bulb wires make any difference to the amount of current to the feeder wire? I assume it might, but not sure if it would be nominal or not. Reason being, I'm envisioning a panel not all that different from a dc block panel except with the bulbs located on said panel indicating their respective power districts. Thank's again!

[@542643131]

Hi Ron's I am thinking about changing over AC to DCC. Thank you i have a questions HO Gage Which Control would be best to run three Engines or four my table is 10x4. ?????

[@johnknoblauch5741]

HI Ron. Forgive me if you have answered this question already, but I didn't see if in the below list. I presume that you are using the 2amp NCE system on you N scale layout. If someone is using the 5amp NCE system do you have any idea if this concept still adequately protect a sub-bus? Thanks.

[@skyjim777]

Will the same gauge wiring work for the larger O scale? I know they use 4 amp for DCC.

[@ZultanenOfSweden]

Today, there are no more lightbulbs! Only led. Do you have a replacement to recomend??

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

You can still get 1156 bulbs at any auto parts store or on Amazon.

[@The282mike]

Any automotive store still has these bulbs. They can even order you boxes of 10 bulbs, cheaper than blister packs of 2 bulbs.

[@LeslieGilpinRailways]

I agree that within Europe and UK filament bulbs appear to be almost totally phased out and replaced by low wattage LEDs etc. Even on Amazon and eBay.

[@DouglasJFear]

Ron. Great instructional video. I have a question. I have 5 terminal blocks throughout my switching layout. I have no created power blocks. Likely will run no more than a couple of engines at a time, at most. Do I need to install short management on all 5 terminal blocks? Will one do the job?

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

If you have no divided power blocks one will do it.

[@DouglasJFear]

Thanks Ron. I'll make it so.

[@ericbarrall5619]

I’m getting ready to build my 1st DCC system. I’m planning on using this bulb system ... my question is- how often do you experience a short?

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

You will tend to see shorts when you have a derailment or, in some cases, as equipment passes through turnouts. The true answer depends on your track and your rollingstock.

[@FBMRR]

Question: if you were to hook up a relay instead of the bulb. could you use that to light up an LED instead?

[@leonaddison9823]

genius.

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

+Leon Addison Thanks, but it is actually a technique thats been around since the DC days. I can't take credit for it, just passing it aling.

[@tonyroyle2232]

love the idea but the bulb is resting against your bus wire when seeing a short will this not illuminate the bulb to full power (getting hot) and melt the bus wire its resting on ?

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

No, the bulb doesn't get that hot, plus the idea is to find the short and relieve it quickly, not to leave it and let the bulb burn long term.

[@tonyroyle2232]

@@RonsTrainsNThings hi thanks for this answer i apologise for the query i am now retired due to cancer and need a hobby so i am new to model railways and building a dcc layout i am trying not to make any costly mistakes i try to watch and learn your posts are very helpful thank you

[@jibebuoy3451]

I am not sure if the 1156 bulb method works for an nce power cab. Typically I find that the power cab responds first by shutting off and resetting and that the bulb doesn’t come on at all. Sometimes the bulb does light but is more the exception than the rule. Has anyone experienced this? I’ve checked my wiring and I think it’s ok but I am open to any suggestions. Thank you.

[@KerleyExpress]

Happy Birthday. I have a small layout. How many of these i have to put on it? i only have a 4x8 with a small add on.

[@gabem6863]

This is one of the few things I don't understand about DCC. I've been planning a layout in DCC for a while (money!!) You mention "short protecton districts". That means that each district section with its lightbulb is isolated from the others by insulated rail joiners, correct? Is there any recommened size for each district? Then only the shorted area lights up while not affecting the other districts? What would be better, having the lightbulb next to the district or having all of them on a panel by the control board?

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

Great questions, Gabe. Yes, each distric is electrically isolated at the rails. The length can vary, but I would say absolutely no shorder than your longest train. I divide mine into work districts. An entire yard is on one district, but isolated from main and shorts often happen in yards with all of the turnouts. This way a shor in the yard doesn't shut down the main. I like having the bulbs where the district is, this way if a short occurs the crew at the short knows it is their short, can fix the issue, and knows when it is fixed because the buld goes out.

[@mrserious55]

@@RonsTrainsNThings doing HO i dont use a sub buss...so where does the 2nd wire attach?...also...if you isolate each district (both rails i assume)...how does the power get there? thx

[@mrserious55]

so the sub buss puts power in the isolated section?

[@eddiebrooks7856]

why not use a automotive taillight socket/with wires hence no soldering to the bulb ?

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

+Eddie Brooks You can, but it adds to the cost is all.

[@willparsons32]

so by connecting the two cables from the light bulb to your bus line and track feeding cable it completes the circuit for both sides of your track? I suspect that the DCC Signal would travel through the lightbulb and to the feeder wire on a normal non shorted circuit? If there is a short on your track somewhere within the feeder wires section of track it will lighten the bulb informing you that there is a short. That's great but how would you see the bulb laminate if it is below the bench work? Second question; while attaching the car light via the two wires to your bus feed..You had connected the black wire with a permanent connector to the top track feeder wire. Could a person not simply attach the track feeder wire to the bus connector instead of attaching that metal connector thingy?

[@RonsTrainsNThings]

Hi, Will. For my layout the bulbs are near the front of the benchwork, so they light up the floor. I do not currently have a curtain under the layout. If you did, you would simply have to lift the curtain and see which buld was lit, thus which sectin was shorted. As for the permanent connection verses to spade connector, yes, you certainly can do that. I like the spade connectors and terminal strips only because it allows me to easily disconnect a track if I need to for maintenance, troubleshooting, etc. Thanks for a couple great questions.

[@willparsons32]

@@RonsTrainsNThings one other question; what if the car light burned out and you had a short thereafter? I can only assume that you are constantly checking the bulbs for this reason?

[@kd5hpk]

Will, If the light bulb burned out it would, in turn, leave the next section of the circuit dead as there would be an open on the circuit. Remember, the bulb completes that section of the layout circuit. Ron, VERY informative. I'm in the process of setting up my layout and haven't even begun the wiring. Now, where did I put those insulating track joiners...

[@samwilliams9498]

What rating for jumpers do you use. Allelectonics.com shows several. Thanks, great videos