Short field landings with Paul - Flight Lesson Video

[@toonybrain]

Good stuff. I like how you organized your counsel to Paul in bullet points, i.e., “two things...” This lets Paul know to glean two things from your words. Some instructors use too far many words when instructing. Students’ brains are already crammed full of new processes and applying new information; there’s the potential for brain overload that can lead to tuning out the instructor in order to “ just fly the plane.” Ergo, nothing heard or learned. If my instructor said, “Two things...” it would serve as a mini cliffhangar: I’d be tuned in to identify, zero in on, and extract those two things. Thanks for keeping your verbiage concise and meaningful.

[@mr.martintorres5804]

Bravo Paul! Jason, you are so patient and straight forward with your students. Paul is lucky to have you as his instructor.

[@360compass]

Excellent instruction & explanation. The "stop action" really brings home the key points. Thanks for sharing, Paul & Jason!

[@TheFinerPoints]

Glad you liked it Larry!

[@talkingbob]

As someone who almost failed their PPL checkride due to my short field landing, I appreciated the tips you presented in this video, Jason! It was nice to meet you at Sun & Fun 2016. #TFP

[@TheFinerPoints]

Thanks! Will I see you there in 2018?

[@talkingbob]

Probably not, but we'll see. Might go to OSH '18 though...

[@TheFinerPoints]

talkingbob roger that. I may be there lecturing for AOPA hope to see you

[@erinmason9554]

I really like that in your videos, you show the requested action and then replay it with focuses and pointers. That really helps. Keep videos like these coming!

[@victoryautmotive1582]

#TFP I really think the length is juuuust right! There are a couple things that I really appreciate: 1. The shadow focus of the site picture. As a glider pilot, the sight picture is always on my mind. Especially not moving the sight picture with pitch. So you putting extra attention on the sight picture and target was awesome. 2. Showing the standards and highlighting important parts and showing what’s accepted really is priceless. Thanks for great content, it is greatly appreciated!

[@jswiftflying2911]

Great tips on adjusting the Aim point. Good tool for my next practice. Lets go fly!

[@thizswagblapcity]

I first learned short field landings with a "chop and drop" style once clearing the 50' obstacle and it stuck with me (primacy). Just passed my commercial using this technique, but the examiner brought up using a more stabilized approach just like you teach in this video! Definitely going to use this for when I become a CFI. All the #TFP resources have been a great for keeping my head in the game, so thanks for all you do!

[@TheFinerPoints]

Thanks Paul. It's been fun growing this channel for sure. The podcast doesn't allow for this type of engagement. Thanks for commenting.

[@ericsd55]

Most excellent videos, sir! As an old school, taildragging teaching, spelling Langewiesche right the first time, hollerin' "more right rudder" kinda pilot, I appreciate your Finer Points greatly.

[@TheFinerPoints]

haha Thanks Eric! coming from that kind of guy, it means a lot! thx

[@Armyaviator01]

I like your instructional video's very much. I am a retired Army Aviator and want badly to get back into flying. Thanks for what you do, its like having an instructor at my disposal, just a click away. Stay well and safe flying.

[@TheFinerPoints]

Thanks Steve. Watching along is a great way for you to stay "in it" while you're waiting to get back into it. Glad to be a part of the ride!

[@JimmyTidmore]

Thanks for these! Working on my CFI and they are very helpful. Thanks to Paul as well.

[@TheFinerPoints]

Jimmy Tidmore you bet Jimmy! It's been a lot of work and a lot of fun! Paul's a good sport right?

[@JimmyTidmore]

The Finer Points He definitely is. Hope he knows he’s not making any mistakes that everyone of us hasn’t made as well. And after watching that last landing, not sure I’d want to have a short field landing competition with him. He nailed it.

[@Kenneths_Adventures]

Just found your channel from Flightchops. As a CFI it is always great to me to see other instructors doing what they can to help other pilots! Keep them coming. #TFP

[@TheFinerPoints]

Thanks! wilco

[@aviationcommunity7886]

Wow I've made a correction on centerline landing now, and the video length is perfect for tutorial digestion time, looking forward for more such videos. #TFP

[@konnorwestley8964]

i dont mean to be so offtopic but does anyone know a way to log back into an instagram account? I stupidly forgot the account password. I love any tips you can give me!

[@judsonishaan5212]

@Konnor Westley Instablaster ;)

[@konnorwestley8964]

@Judson Ishaan Thanks so much for your reply. I got to the site through google and I'm trying it out now. Looks like it's gonna take quite some time so I will get back to you later with my results.

[@fekete6368]

Really appreciated this video, and the breaking down the steps to "hit the spot". Perfect length on the video as well -- illustrates the issue, discusses the correction (and mitigation with go-around), and demonstrates the fix. Nice soundtrack to boot! #TFP

[@jordanhoneyman5734]

Keep this stuff coming Jason! Well crafted videos but more importantly, as for me, these videos are aligning with my flight training as well. I'm sure i'm not the only out there feeling this way but it is so cool and reassuring that when I go out and do these things and maybe struggle with them a little, I can watch these videos and be reassured that I can do it! It's like a quick debrief and a chance to get another perspective. Keep it up! #TFP

[@TheFinerPoints]

Thanks Jordan, wilco!

[@daveyates2512]

Where were these videos 20 years ago? Great job guys

[@Torey2008R]

I like how the video is right to the point. The title and video content match. Looking at the title, I would expect a short video with a focus on short field landings. A link at the end to another video about the same topic would be beneficial. This way other tips and tricks can be watched while getting another view or possibly a subscriber. #TFP

[@TheFinerPoints]

Thanks for the feedback!

[@daffidavit]

I also question whether it's beneficial to retract the flaps as soon as you touch down. I used to do that until my instrument flight test. The FAA examiner was a crusty older guy who looked like he could fly and fix any airplane ever built. He insisted that I leave the flaps down until I turned off the runway. He said the drag of the flaps helps slow the plane down. Of course, I argued that by retracting the flaps more weight would be put on the brakes. But that is a fallacy. Once the airplane is stalled, 100% of the weight of the plane is already on the ground, so retracting flaps do not put more of the airplane on the ground. However, the flaps add additional drag and stop the plane quicker while using the same amount of braking. If you really want to stop quickly in a Cessna, open both doors as wide a possible and you will stop on a dime. I do not recommend that on a flight test however.

[@KarlGosling]

Any time the AC is in motion the wings and flaps will generate lift, at slow speeds this is not enough to take off but it reduces the load on the wheels progressively until it is enough... So flaps up will aid braking, if your flaps go up quickly enough of course, some electric flaps are so slow you will already have stopped! lol

[@daffidavit]

@@KarlGosling I generally agree with you accept to the part where you say: "any time the AC is in motion the wings and flaps will generate lift..." I believe at slightly below stall speed, some parts of the wing may still be generating lift, because the inboard wing stalls first, but at some slower point, there is nothing but burbling surrounding the entire wing.

[@bnoohi]

Flightchops brought me here and I'm loving the videos. Straight to the point videos, I'm going to have to binge them all! #TFP

[@TheFinerPoints]

haha the good news is there are only a few (new ones that is) ... but they're coming every other week. If you haven't hear the podcast, that could keep you busy for awhile :) www.learnthefinerpoints.com/podcast

[@GoneFlying]

Great refresher video. Thanks 🙏

[@j.vincenttaylor8916]

Great instructional vid! Glad i found your channel, ive enjoyed your instruction on chops for a while now. Some of my worst time in planes have been because of bad instructors.

[@110knotscfii]

He needs to use rudder when making movements of the ailerons. Notice how the nose is yawing left and right. I like to call this the "conductor" effect. I did it for many years until I put a camera in the airplane and finally saw it.

[@TheFinerPoints]

Agreed. We have a video where we work on this with Paul -- kzbin.info/www/bejne/jqi5qamvmMilers

[@110knotscfii]

You are doing great work!

[@dn1927-b7c]

I'm curious why is that a "conductor effect"

[@tipater]

good tie in to the acs, with words to tie thoughts to visual

[@TheFinerPoints]

yeah, it's right there in the book!

[@slasher2623]

these videos have inspired me to go for my private pilots license and I start my first class dec17 #TFP

[@TheFinerPoints]

awesome, blue skies! make sure you check out the The Finer Points podcast too, will be very helpful in training. www.learnthefinerpoints.com/podcast

[@jashpatel1477]

Isn't he stretching his landing, though? My understanding is you should be slow enough at round-out so that there will be minimal ground effect to keep you from touching-down just a little beyond your aiming point; thus making the most of the available runway. Btw, I love the videos, learned so much. Thanks!

[@Semsdoyle]

Great video! I kinda cheered when he nailed it!

[@mikeadams8015]

For short field landings, do you consider the type of turf for calculating distance needed? I am curious to know how much affect snow or wet grass versus dirt runway is needed. #TFP

[@TheFinerPoints]

Hard to quantify, but the difference it huge

[@clearprop-richardnash5050]

Next time I go flying I’m going to try this!

[@TheFinerPoints]

ClearProp - Richard Nash awesome! Let me know how it works!

[@jwschrag]

Can't wait to apply some of these techniques to achieve even shorter landings in my J3 Cub. #TFP I've got to get used to moving my aiming point short of my intended landing point.

[@TheFinerPoints]

Awesome, let me know how it works!

[@gerryortiz7276]

Great job! Do you teach the 4 degree glide path to clear an obstacle before landing or short field without obstacle?

[@ericmuetterties1984]

Cool! I'm based out of LVK and recognise the controller. Great vids!

[@TheFinerPoints]

Eric Muetterties thx!

[@FlyingGrimaud]

This actually helped me. I have been working on landing shorter and the tips helped! Thanks, keep the content up! I think the format is a good length but it also depends on what it is. With landings this was a good length but with other stuff like engine out training I would like something a bit longer. Keep it up! #TFP

[@TheFinerPoints]

Thanks for the feedback!

[@xrey83]

Would this be the same with a 50ft obstacle? Do you want to be higher, steeper descent, and pretend you’re a STOL plane?

[@TheDeathsabeach]

I really like the presentation of this video. It was an excellent length amd was direct to the point. I am just starting out flight training and could easily follow what was being explained. #TFP

[@TheFinerPoints]

Thanks Robey

[@tylerludlow7934]

Great videos and information. All of these little, extra tips help build confidence before I try them myself. #TFP

[@scottreynolds4591]

I just discovered your channel and love it! I have just started with my private pilot lessons. Your videos are serving as a real inspiration to me! Keep up the good work! #TFP

[@TheFinerPoints]

Roger wilco!

[@j.hamoniii4840]

Great video as always. Keep up the good work bud!! #TFP

[@TheFinerPoints]

Thank you sir!

[@coosk0110]

Thank you for sharing nice video

[@TheFinerPoints]

You're welcome! I'm glad you enjoyed it.

[@PuertoPenascoMag]

Excellent explanations

[@TheFinerPoints]

PuertoPenascoMag thank you 🙏🏻

[@tullyward-hamer7906]

really enjoy the podcast, looking forward to the youtube content #tfp

[@TheFinerPoints]

Thanks for following along!

[@drumcoveraddict]

#TFP Short, sweet, and to the point. I like that it clearly demonstrated a mistake, explained why/how a pilot can make that mistake, and how to correct for it. I definitely see the need for just doing laps with short field takeoffs and landings, I feel like estimating the float is a skill that quickly dulls, and changes so much based on conditions. Great video, I'm glad the contest sent me this way! New subscriber, check!

[@alrobinson8]

#TFP - Just finishing my instructor rating. Cannot overstate the importance of a stable approach, especially when shooting performance landings.

[@The_Authority]

Love the heist music.

[@TheFinerPoints]

thx the music on this one was a lot of fun!

[@flyboy1405]

On a short field landing I always aim for the numbers and pull power when the runway is made #TFP.

[@coastlineaviation6149]

love the videos! Btw.. how is Paul holding the yoke here?

[@TheFinerPoints]

hopefully , lightly with a few fingers of his left hand. We worked a bit up front with a pen threaded through the fingers, this is an old trick that will prevent you from having a "death grip". A light grip will force you to use the trim properly and prevent overcontrolling

[@coastlineaviation6149]

Right on. Figured it was a method of yours. Love the work! Your thumb trick for holding pattern entries made holds so much easier during my IR checkride. Looking forward to more videos soon! If you have any videos demonstrating CAX maneuvers, that would be swell ;-)

[@TheFinerPoints]

Thanks! I should elaborate on that pen trick in some future video, it's one of the building blocks to pretty much everything else. CAX is commercial? I will think about that, I have some great stuff for Chandelles and Lazy Eights (my favorite maneuver)

[@coastlineaviation6149]

Yea I think I learned something similar to the pen trick... always have the yoke in the fingers vs. the death grip in the palm. And yes... sorry for the acronym... just took the written a few weeks back. Would love to see your take and method with Lazy Eights... did them for the first time yesterday afternoon and am having trouble establishing the 45, 90, 135 degree reference points and correlating with the necessary - and constantly changing-, pitch and bank positions

[@gnsgml11]

The issue I have is when i adjust the speed to the speed I want, my attitude is higher than what I like and If i nose down to get the right attitude, the speed is too fast. The only way I could fix this was to come in low during the approach. Any tips? edit: my intended speed during final is 70kts and 60~62 knots during short final but can't reduce the speed unless i put the nose up with less power which changes my attitude too much. If i leave the nose but cut the power I just sink but the speed stays the same. My instructor sets speed at 65 kts or 62 kts early after turning from base but the brief(instructions) says 70 final then 62kt short final. I just want to know how this is done. During my flight test, the test officer showed me how he does his and was to set up early too he pretty much used only rudder and trim and didn't touch the control until flare (he said I touched the controls too much and said the flight can be less bumpy if i didn't touch it at all).

[@cq7415]

Thanks.

[@yoracerguy]

Would you consider low wing aircraft (like a Cherokee) or a high wing aircraft (like a 172) easier to perform a short field landing with, all other conditions being equal? #TFP

[@TheFinerPoints]

In general I would say low wing airplanes are "more forgiving" on landings but ... when it comes to short fields ... the slower airspeed and the steeper angle of descent, I would say a high wing might have an edge there.

[@yoracerguy]

Interesting point! The only high wing I've flown was a 172SP on my intro lesson, and the rest of my time has been in Warriors. It'd be interesting to see how the two models compare.

[@psyrixx]

Love Byron!

[@TheFinerPoints]

Robert Sogomonian me too ... mostly on weekdays with all the jets, parachutes, gliders and planes 😳 Great airport

[@psyrixx]

One of the things my initial CFI never explained to me was the process of selecting an aimpoint that was in front of where you wanted to actually touch down -so I was always floating right on down the runway and having really nice landings, but always outside of ACS requirements. And any time I hit my landings within ACS requirements they were never comfortable (obviously)! When he took a teaching break and I started flying with the CFI I ended up getting certificated with, that CFI was like "dude, just aim 400' in front of where you want to land". Started nailing my landings just like Paul. Then I switched to a Cessna (versus a Piper) and had to learn how to land all over again! 🤣

[@psyrixx]

Also, LVK is my current home airport! Did my initial flight training at Sterling Aviation over at CCR.

[@TheFinerPoints]

Hey ... we all live and learn! Glad you got it, that's a critical point when it comes to nailing the landings. and here you go all over again in the Cessna!

[@psyrixx]

Ended up doing the checkride in the Cessna (with Batchelder at CCR back in May)! :D Got my checkout in a 182 a few weeks ago, and am hoping to wrap up the written exam for IFR before end of the year. Can't wait to see where this video series goes - the podcast is wonderful but I think this adds a new dimension to The Finer Points.

[@nilosantos4862]

In the right glideslop angle 3 DG the speed over the stall and no Wind cizors . The pilot have just touch and reverse the propeller. Just fine

[@Mysemantics]

Gliderguy Relevant to off-field glider landings where use of full flaps gives pronounced nose-down attitude. Sometimes uncomfortable to hold off the flair. #TFP

[@SirRawtcha]

Love the Hat..

[@keithhoward9238]

I always do a short field landing.

[@jimrichardson3052]

#TFP My first touchdown at a point was within a foot mostly luck I guess.

[@stephenfarris4952]

#gdp great video

[@stephenfarris4952]

#tfp

[@robertmurdoch1]

It's an area I definitely need work.

[@daffidavit]

We used to call these "spot" landings. When I taught "short field" landings, the FAA required us to assume there was a 50 ft. obstical (tree) at the threshold of the runway. We had to approach no more than 10 kts above or 5 kts below the selected approach speed of 1.3 times Vso. After clearing the tree, we had to land in the shortest distance. Coming in below glide speed is necessary to avoid a long float. BTW, the glide speed is not necessarly the best approach speed. Barry Schiff urges that another slower speed is better when the field has been made. The max. endurance speed is slightly slower but keeps you in the air longer. That speed can be used on short final to keep the roll out shortest while maintaining safety.

[@TheFinerPoints]

I like the 'spot' landing label and sometimes use that too. It's a nice description of what you're trying to accomplish. I've moved away from calling it that because I found some pilot get confused about the aiming point and the 'spot' they are trying to hit. You have to be careful in Cessna with 1.3 Vso (that's 42 knots) -- We use the manufacturer's recommended airspeed and only consider 1.3 Vso if there is nothing published in the POH. I am a HUGE Barry Schiff fan, by the way ... thanks for the comment!

[@daffidavit]

We used to train in a C-150 so it was a little faster than 42. I think we did our short field approaches around 50-55kts. The 150 was great because it had 40 degrees of flaps. You could fly that thing backward in a strong wind with full flaps at altitude. I think Cessna reduced the max flaps to 30 degrees in the 152 for liability purposes. Anyway, nice video.

[@ejaysamaniego]

Great tips here, thanks for these awesome videos!! #TFP

[@TheFinerPoints]

Thanks Ejay! They will keep coming ...

[@dojoswitzer]

I am not finding a short-field takeoff tutorial.

[@WindsorMediaKenya]

#tfp love you

[@mianatwood]

That’s definitely not 200ft though? His aiming point is actually the piano keys not the 7L numbers and we lands on the aiming point(500ft marker) that’s 500ft not 200ft🧐??

[@Woodscraps-lr5vz]

I personally thought the plus 5 minute, sub 10 minute format was excellent. I tried finding something to offer constructive criticism about, but don't have much. Perhaps adding some additional narration about common student errors when doing short field approaches? Keep it up. #TFP

[@TheFinerPoints]

Woodscraps1798 thanks for that feedback!

[@mannypuerta5086]

The problem with the ACS requirement is that it doesn’t reflect real world. These guys pass a checkride, but there’s no way they’re going to land in a 1000-1200’ backcountry strip without rolling off the end. He ate up 500’ of runway before touching down. Maybe those are the “standards”, but those standards don’t meet real world requirements. I can see these being private pilot standards perhaps, but certainly not commercial standards. Everyone wants to land on my 1400’ strip until they realize it’s 1400’. A lot of pilots I know don’t even like flaps more than 20, because the tendency to sink on final is too great and they’re afraid of hitting the nosewheel first due to the extra flaps making the flare difficult. I always wonder who taught these folks. They do seem to remember their aviation acronyms and mnemonics, though. (Face palm) Nothing personal. I think you do a good job. Just an observation from an old pilot and CFI. Rant off...

[@TheFinerPoints]

I agree Manny. I think really landing on a 1,400 foot strip is a different level. That would generally take some continued training after certification for most people.

[@mannypuerta5086]

Finer Points OK , i can understand why a private pilot won’t learn real world short field techniques. I wonder why the “real” short field techniques aren’t trained during the commercial course? A pilot gets their commercial, moves to Alaska and has a hard time getting a job because they are commercial ACS level backcountry pilots. Maybe instead of emphasizing Lazy Eights and Chandelles, the ACS should dwell on something more practical that the pilot can use post training? The last L8 or C I did was when I was a full time instructor in the early 70’s. I am not a lessor pilot as a result. I have a Pvt AMEL rated friend who will be working on his Commercial in his Twin Comanche. L8’s, Chandelle’s and Pylon 8’s not required. Is he going to be less of a pilot as a result? I, for one, will not miss those maneuvers. Better to spend more time on more practical matters.

[@warren5699]

Agree. This is not even close to a short-field approach and landing - way too much speed and length of runway used from the aiming point to the touchdown point. These are guidelines from the Airplane Flying Handbook: "fly an approach that clears any obstacles, results in little or no floating during the round out, and permits the airplane to be stopped in the shortest possible distance", "A lack of floating during the flare with sufficient control to touch down properly is verification that the approach speed was correct." And a slower speed doesn't mean a hard landing - it the speed and flare are right, it can still be a greaser.

[@MBCGRS]

Everything looked great... He waggled the aileron the whole approach...

[@flyeurodiesel]

aircraft yawing all the way down. aileron drag. lazy feet. was it even needed

[@nelsonbrandt7847]

Oops, F-bomb at 4:28 elapsed time

[@1thingiscertain304]

Awful, unnecessary music!